Too steep for a Z ?

[LR3 Guy]

I've just bought a 5 year old home on 4.5 acres ( 3 to mow ) and I
wonder if it's too steep to use a Z . This is the first acreage property
for me . Until now , I've had city plots ( 1500 meters ) with a 21"
self prop JD . The Z's look far more substantial than the tractors .
I'm looking at Hustler 54" Fastrak vs. JD 54" X300 series sort of price
point for this property :usflag: . I'll attach some photos , otherwise this
won't mean a thing ! The grass was cut by a contractor with a KubotaG1900
type of machine , so the neighbour tells me .......

Thanks ,

Neil.

PS I pulled the electric zap fence out last week . The guy had a large
dog , which jumped it anyway :laugh:

[Richard Martin]

You should be able to handle that on a Z pretty easily. Just take your time until you get used to it.

What's a place like that cost there? USD?

[LR3 Guy]

USD850k plus USD27k taxes . Two floors ; 1830 ft downstairs and
2200 ft upstairs , plus seperate garage 490 ft. Brick walls and concrete
(baked coating) roof tiles , Pilkington thermal glass , but the best thing is
the 200yards concrete drive from the street .

[a clear difference lawn]

Congratulations - that is a beautiful house and even nicer piece of property. From your pictures it does not look to me like you'll have any real problems mowing that with a ztr. Try to go up and down the slopes as much as possible rother than across.

[tjwalkingon]

Beautiful place!! Where is Queensland?

[Hoy landscaping]

can i buy that? with like a 95% discount?

[TreeClimber57]

Nice property!! And just getting into summer weather ..

Should be no issue with a Z on that at all.

My eXmarks or Walkers would do with no issue.. just be careful on the slopes until you get used to it. Especially if going cross hill.. best to go up/down as much as possible until you get some experience.

When can I drop by for a holiday :)

[LR3 Guy]

Where is Queensland ?

http://www.queenslandholidays.com.au/index.cfm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queensland

[grassman177]

he is in aussie country i believe. that is incredible man, jsut incredible. i have to say, you must have a good job or at least did at one time(dont know how old you are).

living large down under, nice landscape too

[Stillwater]

you will be fine with a Z

[lotsagrass]

Check this out. It's an Aussie using Gravely to mow hills there...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukg3RF2H-D0

[DKJLawnCare]

Yeah that will be no prob for a Z at all

[LR3 Guy]

i have to say, you must have a good job or at least did at one time(dont know how old you are).

I'm 51 . Threw some inheritance into the purchase ..... thanks to my Mom .

[DKJLawnCare]

Nice house BTW about $650K more than mine..HAHA

[LR3 Guy]

Check this out. It's an Aussie using Gravely to mow hills there...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukg3RF2H-D0

That rig shifts on a field :dizzy:

That place is 200miles south and has the very same terrain/weather.
Slightly hilly , cattle , dairy , avocados , bananas ...........

Tech. question :

Why is the blade tip speed on a Z 18000rpm ' ish , while it's
around 15000 ' ish on many tractors ?

[Mickhippy]

Where abouts are you? Im on the Gold Coast.

A ztr will be able to cut that ok but I dont know why these guys are saying go up and down. Across is much safer and less taxing on the hydros. Get some training from whom ever you buy it from. Get them to show you on the steepest areas.
Where are you buying the machine. The Hustler importer is in Brisbane, there called Hewlett Equipment.
I would probably look at the bigger machines though. 60" deck and that least the 27hp engine. There probably around the $17000. The 31/60 super z should be around the $18500. The thing about the bigger machines is that you can put 24x12x12 tires on them meaning you can put Carlisle AT101 on.(look them up)
Toro has the new G3 I think its called. 34hp and does hills very well from what Ive been told. About $18500 also.

Something else to think about would be a small tractor with a belly mower. Throw a front end loader on there for doing mulch, lite digging, dragging stuff around etc.

[LR3 Guy]

I'm 4km down from the Mapleton Range 4560
For a bigger size I have been looking at EverRide Warrior 60"/27Kaw
They get rave reviews , but then I can't dispute stuff that I don't
really have a view ( read ; understanding ! ) about :confused:

[flatlander42]

Sounds like you need to get out there and begin Testing out the mowers that are available! Now remember.....each sales person will tell you that theirs is the BEST IN THE WORLD!!!! That is where the testing and studying comes in handy, just take your time and make a Educated Decision. SWEEEEEEET place ya got there!



I'm 4km down from the Mapleton Range 4560
For a bigger size I have been looking at EverRide Warrior 60"/27Kaw
They get rave reviews , but then I can't dispute stuff that I don't
really have a view ( read ; understanding ! ) about :confused:

[grassman177]

we own 4 everrides, they are great machines, but not as good on hills as others as they are light in the rear. just a thought for you. a 60" is the way to go with the amount of area and will do better on slopes being wider

[Mickhippy]

I'm 4km down from the Mapleton Range 4560
For a bigger size I have been looking at EverRide Warrior 60"/27Kaw
They get rave reviews , but then I can't dispute stuff that I don't
really have a view ( read ; understanding ! ) about :confused:

The guy I know who owns the new Toro has an Everride as well.
He loved the Everride until he got the Toro.
Trouble with Everride is that the company seems to get sold off every now and then. I think its been owned buy 3 or 4 different companies in the last 5 years or so. Something like that anyway so basically, I wouldnt trust them to be around forever like other some other companies.
Dont get me wrong, I think Everrides are good machines but there are alot of good machines out there now.

Like Masternate said, best to get a few different machines out there to see what suits best.
Make sure you have some longish grass to cut as well because there will be times when you cant mow for weeks sometimes, and cutting long grass on a slope is a real pita for you and the machine.

What brands are up your way? You will probably need good support later on also so take the dealer into consideration.

[LR3 Guy]

What brands are up your way? You will probably need good support later on also so take the dealer into consideration.

Hustler at Beerwah (40km) , Everride at Maroochydore ( 22km )
NewHolland( Everride's new owners ) at Caboolture ( 45km .. BlackTrac Ltd )
, Toro at Caboolture and John Deere at Kunda Park ( 20km )

[LR3 Guy]

we own 4 everrides, they are great machines, but not as good on hills as others as they are light in the rear. just a thought for you. a 60" is the way to go with the amount of area and will do better on slopes being wider

Does that mean they're less likely to tip up backwards ?
Would that make them more stable , with extra force on the fronts ?
Should I go for wide tyres to increase contact area and improve stopping ,
or does a Z have a tendency to "run-away" down a slope. If the drive
handles are returned to stop , is there a brake-effect or will it just
freewheel down a slope ?

[flatlander42]

I don't want to be the one to say it.....but if you are worried and need to buy a new mower anyways....You may want to search for "ted breaks" on here. From what I have seen, the slopes you pictured don't seem too steep so you might not have to worry.

And when that other guy said "light in the rear" he means that they would be less stable.

For that larg of an area, have you thought about a large Front Mount mower?
I used to use an older John Deere F935 and it had a Locking Front Differential that made it stable on hills.

[lotsagrass]

some people put fluid in the rear tires to help keep the drive wheels on the ground...and some also install something like the Carlisle AT101 chevron tires (eXmark installs them on one of their models at the factory) for more traction. With no front brakes on a ZT mower, going downhill and losing traction can end up badly...depending on how steep the hill is and what's at the bottom...it's also possible to flip the mower if you get enough speed and turn sideways trying to recover. It all depends.

[Mickhippy]

Does that mean they're less likely to tip up backwards ?
Would that make them more stable , with extra force on the fronts ?
Should I go for wide tyres to increase contact area and improve stopping ,
or does a Z have a tendency to "run-away" down a slope. If the drive
handles are returned to stop , is there a brake-effect or will it just
freewheel down a slope ?

Lite in the rear means it may have a tendency to loose traction. My mate with the Everride recently put the AT101's on http://www.carlisletire.com/products/big_biters/at101chevron/index.html and didnt know how he got by without them. I ve been using them for a couple of years now. Give much better traction! He is very happy with the traction on the Toro so isnt going to use the AT101's at this time. I really would recommend you check the Toro G3 out! I would bet that its very well priced. http://www.toro.com/professional/lce/zmaster/g3/74915.html

ZTR's have a tendency to loose traction and slide while going down hill, which is why Im puzzled that others here have said to go up and down. Thats just wrong!
This isnt a big deal if its flat at the bottom or no obstacles. The hydro system is the breaking system so it is usual to control the decent, nice n slow. Keep the wheels rolling, just like 4wding.

[mowerbrad]

The property really does look like a ztr could be used without a problem. BUT, for someone with no experience on a ztr, it may be a little more challanging for a while. While it is easy to become familiar with a ztr on flat terrain, using it from the start on hilly terrain will make it more challanging to learn. A good lawn tractor like the JD X500 series would be a better choice than the X300 for that size property. So if you are uneasy on a ztr, I would suggest looking at the higher end lawn tractors from JD.

[grassman177]

just traction loss when facing down a slope, as explained a little above, the lack of weight on the rear tires allows the traction loss, though it can be managed and experience helps. that is just a fact, they have a trailer hitch on the frame on the rear, you could always add weight to the rear, i have thought about it. tires would make a big difference too as we use the turf friendly stock versions, more aggressive and wide are good

[LR3 Guy]

Thankyou for all this input Guys. Thumbs Up

[LR3 Guy]

I really would recommend you check the Toro G3 out! http://www.toro.com/professional/lce/zmaster/g3/74915.html

I'll contact a Dealer for prices and a view ....

[LR3 Guy]

A good lawn tractor like the JD X500 series would be a better choice than the X300 for that size property.

Three houses away has what looks ( thru my binoculars LOL ! ) like
a 500 or 700 series JD . Damn wide tyres and a reversing light , I could see.
Should go and introduce myself and ask the Guy . He's got VERY steep
hills and twice the cutting. Probably a 4WD model ? It might be a X728 ....

[mowerbrad]

Three houses away has what looks ( thru my binoculars LOL ! ) like
a 500 or 700 series JD . Damn wide tyres and a reversing light , I could see.
Should go and introduce myself and ask the Guy . He's got VERY steep
hills and twice the cutting. Probably a 4WD model ? It might be a X728 ....

I don't want to talk you completely out of a ztr as they are very efficient. But, using a tractor like the deere X500/700's takes far less skill than using a ztr. I would really suggest that you at least take a look at these mowers (maybe even try your neighbor's) just to make sure that you explored all your options.

I think that in the lawn care industry today, too many people think that ztr's are your only option. Just make sure that you look at all your options.

[Mickhippy]

I had an X595 a few years ago. X748??? or something now. A great mower. Slower than a ztr but still gets along pretty good. Great on hills and you could put a small FEL on it.
You can also get them with the commercial 7iron deck now to but the yellow deck would be ok if careful. I had the 54" deck on mine and power to deck size was very good, especially when grass gets longer and you need the power.
They are the Rolls Royce of mowers!

[milkie62]

I thought they only had Kangaroos over there ?

[LR3 Guy]

Well, with all this new info from you Guys , it's going to take a week or two
to research more equipment. I've just asked a local contractor to cut it
for me because it's starting to look a mess ( 9" ) in places . He has a
Kubota BX2360(54")and for USD52 p/hr ( 2 hours he reckons ) will do it next week when he's on another cut up here.

[andyslawncare]

I'm an Exmark Lazer Z user. I would mow your property without a hitch! If you buy a Zero Turn Mower, I would suggest to get one with a roll bar and use your seat belt-I know of a few guys in my area that aren't with us anymore because of slopes and neglecting to use their roll bars and seat belts-God bless their souls & their families...I don't mean to steer you away from this idea because of the last statement, but you must be careful while using your machine, and if it has safety equipment installed you should use it any time you are in an area over a 15-20% gradient slope. I would suggest that you get as much experience using your mower as possible on level ground first. Once you can operate your machine with one hand (with your eyes closed - jk about this, but you should be very comfortable with the machine before you take many risks on hill sides). I have approx 3,000+ hrs experience on a Z and i could mow my own yard blind folded with one hand if I needed to...

As a beginner, I would steer free of large slopes when wet especially-if a slope is too wet, you will slide uncontrollably down the whole hill and possibly hit trees or fences (I've been there and done that!!), you also have a risk of tipping your machine, but if you are slow enough in these steep areas, you will start to see the front left or right wheel come off the ground. If you see this happen, you are too steep and/or too fast, you should slow down and maybe change your approach to the hillside. Depending on the slope, we will mow a slope at a 30-50% angle to the slope. I do not suggest an amateur to mow a slope across, it will be best to mow it at the angles given above so that you can back out of your current action (if mowing uphill) or straighten out (to go straight down the slope) both responses will help you avoid disaster. You will usually see a wheel lift out of level ground when you mow across a slope, and will sometimes see this while mowing at an angle uphill. Like I stated earlier, you should gain as much experience using your machine as you can before taking it in sloped areas-I would say 10-50 hrs of turf experience slowly leading into your sloped areas should allow you enough time to get your bearings on the machine you choose. I require my employees to clock at least 10 hrs driving time before letting them mow even a semi-flat property, you never know what will happen...

Mow safe!

[LR3 Guy]

Most appreciated Andy Thumbs Up

[andyslawncare]

I thought they only had Kangaroos over there ?

HAHA! Just read recent postings.... Kangaroos!! That's funny... I would suggest investing in an Exmark mower, you can choose from a 36'' - 72'' ride on (ranging from 18HP gas to 35HP Kobata Diesel-3 cylinders), hopefully buy one used, and you will be able to get well over 2,000 hrs on it-especially with the diesel machines, I don't know what the market is where you live for these machines, but I've sold used 46''-50'' units with 1,100 hrs for under $3,000... There are also many options that you can add to your machine, including: seat suspension($300-600), operator discharge chute($250), halogen light kit ($300), sun shade ($?), and etc...

[DKJLawnCare]

Not really sure why they would say go up and down either? You should definitely go side to side, especially starting out new on a ZTR. Im like the other poster though. Don't feel limited to a ZTR there are many riding tractors out there too. The ZTR's are hard to get used to on hills. I have a 3ft ditch at the bottom of my yard, and I was very lucky I didn't put my scag in it. It was a little too wet and I was mowing up and down.. But that is another story.

As the other poster mentioned. If you do get one with a ROPS and Seat Belt USE THEM. They are there for your safety. TED BRAKES are something to look into too. I would love to retrofit my Tiger with them..

Good luck to you friend.

[GCAN]

As I read through this I have to say it seems like a lot of energy and learning is needed to survive using a ZTR....based on the differing advice and concerns coming from the pro's on the ZTR while I no specific concerns or fears stated using a small tractor type piece of equipment you may be best served by sticking with the tractor.....just my $.02

[grassman177]

i just want to come and visit this awesome pad!!!! do you rent rooms for vacationers?!! ha

[GravelyNut]

Not really sure why they would say go up and down either? You should definitely go side to side, especially starting out new on a ZTR. Im like the other poster though. Don't feel limited to a ZTR there are many riding tractors out there too. The ZTR's are hard to get used to on hills. I have a 3ft ditch at the bottom of my yard, and I was very lucky I didn't put my scag in it. It was a little too wet and I was mowing up and down.. But that is another story.

As the other poster mentioned. If you do get one with a ROPS and Seat Belt USE THEM. They are there for your safety. TED BRAKES are something to look into too. I would love to retrofit my Tiger with them..

Good luck to you friend.
Up and down are better on the hydros. Both end up doing close to the same work. Side to side increases rollover chances and works the downhill side hydro more. You will be fighting the pull of gravity on the front the whole time. And it is in the manufactures books " Mow up and down slopes, not across them." " If you can't back up a slope or feel uneasy on it, do not mow it."

[brucec32]

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=295923

[DKJLawnCare]

Up and down are better on the hydros. Both end up doing close to the same work. Side to side increases rollover chances and works the downhill side hydro more. You will be fighting the pull of gravity on the front the whole time. And it is in the manufactures books " Mow up and down slopes, not across them." " If you can't back up a slope or feel uneasy on it, do not mow it."

Good point, I guess I argue because I always feel uneasy trying to stop almost 1,500 pounds going down towards a ditch. I also dont like the pop a wheelie type feel getting to the top either. LOL

[LR3 Guy]

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=295923

I understand that you direct my question to the homeowner section.
The very reason I ask on this section was to get the views of pros
who use zero turn equipment . If I had basic tractor questions , I would
ask elsewhere , but this is really important to me Bruce . I'd rather have
the experience from others, than end up crushed/dead through not
asking the real users :)

[GravelyNut]

Good point, I guess I argue because I always feel uneasy trying to stop almost 1,500 pounds going down towards a ditch. I also dont like the pop a wheelie type feel getting to the top either. LOL

Another advantage of the Rapid XZ. As an outfront, it won't pop a wheelie. Disadvantage is it weighs almost 1 ton.

[MOturkey]

Sir, you have an absolutely gorgeous home. Congratulations to you.

I run Gravely 260's, and have had excellent service with the 200 series. Another feature I wouldn't be without, is the hydraulic deck lift. Not quite as important for a homeowner, since you won't be loading on and off a trailer, but a very nice feature anyway. I find the Gravely's to be quite stable on hills, and, although pictures can be deceiving, I think you would have little problem on the slopes you have shown.

However, I do agree with others that you need to take your time getting used to running the Z on pretty level ground. For most, it doesn't take long to get the hang of it. Just take things slow and easy, and remember that on hills, like on slick roads (do you guys have ice and snow there?), you need to do things slowly, and gently.

As for the safety aspect, if you purchase a 2010, it will come equipped with a ROPS (rollover protection system), and if not, it can be retrofitted for a few hundred. That way, if, heaven forbid, something happens, injury is much less likely to occur. Also, I think in general, the larger the machine, the more stable on hills, so since you are going to have to spend the money on a new mower anyway, I'd go with a 60 inch over something smaller.

One thing, if you like to mow, which you will with a Z, don't ever let your wife get on it, or she'll be mowing the yard all the time, and will never let you play with it. :)

Best of luck.

Neill

[LR3 Guy]

It's been 8 months since I started this thread . I always get annoyed when
there's no closure to a question that folk are good enough to chime in on.
Well , there's a Hell of alot of rain up here ; 60" from Jan thru mid-March( summer ) this year. I watched the Contractor with his 4X4 SCUT and I realised why he used ( 12 years now , he says. ) such on these terrains .

What did I test( no order or reason )? : JDX500 , Kubota T2360 , Grav260HXDZ , Hustler SuperZ31kaw 60"rear discharge , Kubota GR2110 , Everride
Warrior27kaw 54".
TBH I felt much happier on a SCUT ; it's a shortcoming of a novice on hills ?
I very quickly realised that if you don't pay , you don't get ; nothin' for
nothin' in this equipment game. The Z can really cut grass fast and well , there's no disputing that ! They take practice , for sure.

The purchase : Kubota BX2360 54" assem in Gainsborough GA.
http://www.kubota.com/product/BX1860/BX1860.aspx

Thanks to all of you Guys !

[Mickhippy]

Thanks for the update! Awesome looking tractor!
Are you going to put a FEL on it? I have a Kub B1700 with loader and its the most handy thing to have. Been using it for the last couple of days fixing drains with river rock. Much easier than the wheel barrow!

[LR3 Guy]

I haven't bought the FEL , but David Evans Kubota in Nambour
will sell it to me for the combo-deal price difference , if I want
to buy one from them . I'll see how I go , but TBH I don't think
I have a use for one. What I would like is a tow-hitch that can
be fitted to the 3pt , but I can't find one of these sort here :( ;

http://cgi.ebay.com/TRAILER-HITCH-TRACTOR-DRAWBAR-THREE-POINT-KUBOTA-NEW-/290460206868?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0

http://www.summitfab.com/

This type are a bit low ;

http://bxpanded.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=45

Any idea if there's an importer/manufacturer in Oz for this stuff ?

[Mickhippy]

No idea but I would talk to a few ag or tractor suppliers. I'd say John Deere and a few other makes would have the Cat 1 hitch set up.
They dont look that difficult to make!
Can you get a Carry All? Reinforce it and put a ball on. Im sure Ive seen something like that before somewhere.

[LR3 Guy]

A carry-all is too big . I'll see what JD have :)

[Don SC]

LR3Guy, you look good on the Kubota! Nice purchase.