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americanlawn
11-28-2009, 04:45 PM
Anybody else run into this?

Earlier this year, we had a customer who threatened to cancel service if we used a ride-on unt on his property. (Corner lot/ 12,500 sq ft.) He said ride-on units leave "tracks" on his lawn, so he wants it "push spread" every time.. His lawn has slight hills & slopes, so it's a "workout" to push a spreader on his property.

rscvp, thanks

RedSox4Life
11-28-2009, 06:29 PM
Charge extra or (in Borat's voice) "Say Goodbye!"

Runner
11-28-2009, 06:29 PM
I'd say "Ah, bye bye now!" By the time he saw the price I'd charge to push it out and then pull hose, he wouldn't want my service I'll be darned if I'm gonna carry and load a push spreader for this one customer.

grassman177
11-28-2009, 07:42 PM
i have a guy that requested this, but he has a serious slope and we did tear it up so we are to blame. this was before the zsprays though, we were using jrco spreaders on mowers. as long as there are no tracks due to too muddy etc no one cares how we do what we do.

i would charge him extra or cancel. only options in my book

Grandview
11-29-2009, 07:38 AM
I have one customer that does not want me to use my Z. I charge extra. The lawn is around 4K.

a plus bob
11-29-2009, 09:40 AM
I lost one last season I left a small tire mark and did not realize it they called I went out to look at it and took a rake and seed and fixed the coffee can sized spot and also raked out a thin area and seeded it for free.They said they never wanted me to use a ride on again so I said ok.When they mailed the payment they canceled! My competitor has used his PG magnum every application !!

grassman177
11-29-2009, 12:55 PM
I lost one last season I left a small tire mark and did not realize it they called I went out to look at it and took a rake and seed and fixed the coffee can sized spot and also raked out a thin area and seeded it for free.They said they never wanted me to use a ride on again so I said ok.When they mailed the payment they canceled! My competitor has used his PG magnum every application !!

that always irritates me, when they aren't man enough to give the real reason, or when the reason is just a stupid ploy to change and the real reason i cant ever figure out. especially when the lawn looks great and you know the competitors work is inferior.

rcreech
11-29-2009, 01:05 PM
I had one customer ask me to stop using a ride on because it was making her lawn rough! :dizzy: I shared with her that we treated all our lawns with it and never had a complaint and that our "light footprint" wouldn't be enough to make her lawn rough!

I then told her that actually our ride on was lighter then a mower (was using PG's then) and has wider tires so now sure what the big deal was (only with more cooth).

We are still treating her lawn today...so I guess she is ok with it now! :)

mdlwn1
11-29-2009, 01:08 PM
Too many variations in here. Treating 4k of turf with a ride on is just lazy and ignorant. I challenge anyone to do an even application that way. It's one thing (although foolish) to say that your lazy and wont push, but to even think you are doing anything even close to a good job on the small ones is just awefull. Things like this are just another reason why laws will increase...thanks guys. In addition...homeowners sometimes have pride in their lawn...A big rut or tire mark is a clear example to them that the applicator doesnt know or doesnt care what he is doing.

rcreech
11-29-2009, 01:11 PM
Too many variations in here. Treating 4k of turf with a ride on is just lazy and ignorant. I challenge anyone to do an even application that way. It's one thing (although foolish) to say that your lazy and wont push, but to even think you are doing anything even close to a good job on the small ones is just awefull. Things like this are just another reason why laws will increase...thanks guys. In addition...homeowners sometimes have pride in their lawn...A big rut or tire mark is a clear example to them that the applicator doesnt know or doesnt care what he is doing.

So are you saying that you can do a better application pushing a spreader then I can with a ride on?

Am I lazy...heck yeah, but do say I am ignorant....that is going a little too far!

I would use a ride on ALL DAY on a 4K and KNOW that I am applying just as accuratly as a person on a ride on! :) Thank God I probably only have about 5 lawns that size...but still use my ride on's!

Sware by them!

mdlwn1
11-29-2009, 01:23 PM
I'm not saying YOU are ignorant generally speaking. Not sure what a better term is for someone who refuses to see reality when a different or more accurate/thorough approach is available. I am absolutely saying on small jobs I can do a more even application with my lesco than you can with your ride on. Furthermore, ANYONE with proper training could as well. Enjoy the golden years of pesticide use.

NattyLawn
11-29-2009, 01:25 PM
Too many variations in here. Treating 4k of turf with a ride on is just lazy and ignorant. I challenge anyone to do an even application that way. It's one thing (although foolish) to say that your lazy and wont push, but to even think you are doing anything even close to a good job on the small ones is just awefull. Things like this are just another reason why laws will increase...thanks guys. In addition...homeowners sometimes have pride in their lawn...A big rut or tire mark is a clear example to them that the applicator doesnt know or doesnt care what he is doing.

Ok, so what's the challenge? I've used a PG on lawns as low as 1k. If your machine is calibrated correctly, how can't it do a better job? Especially when I'd have to push a full walk behind at 20lbs per k on a 4k lawn? How often do ride ons leave ruts? So we don't have pride in our work and our spewing fert everywhere? Come on man.

I usually have one customer a year that doesn't want me using a ride on. Those are usually the customers who think they know more than they do and try to tell me how to do my job. Price increases will go into effect for next year for these guys.

rcreech
11-29-2009, 01:35 PM
I'm not saying YOU are ignorant generally speaking. Not sure what a better term is for someone who refuses to see reality when a different or more accurate/thorough approach is available. I am absolutely saying on small jobs I can do a more even application with my lesco than you can with your ride on. Furthermore, ANYONE with proper training could as well. Enjoy the golden years of pesticide use.

I am curious to what gives you the thought that our accuracy isn't as good as yours?

I will agree that the smaller the lawn...the harder it is to be accurate with ANY type of equipment. Constant speed for both is harder then on a larger lawn. But that is besides the point since you made this a push vs ride-on issue.

I am actually using the "same spreader" as you...only mine has a motor. I would argue that I am more precise and accurate with my ride on then a HUMAN walking.

Using a calibrated piece of eqiupment at a fixed speed is better then a human that gets tired at the end of the day.

Not sure where your thinking is coming from.

mdlwn1
11-29-2009, 01:35 PM
Unfortunately there are reasons why many laws will go into effect. This thread will no doubt be a perfect example why.

rcreech
11-29-2009, 01:39 PM
Unfortunately there are reasons why many laws will go into effect. This thread will no doubt be a perfect example why.

:laugh:

10-4 little buddy!

NO......most of the reasons laws go into affect are becasue of people like you that don't know or undertand the FACTS!

And that is the FACTS!

mdlwn1
11-29-2009, 01:43 PM
I am curious to what gives you the thought that our accuracy isn't as good as yours?

I will agree that the small the lawn...the harder it is to be accurate with both a push spreader and a ride on. Constant speed for both is harder then on a larger lawn. But that is besides the point since you made this a push vs ride-on issue.

I am actually using the "same spreader" as you...only mine has a motor. I would argue that I am more precise and accurate with my ride on then a HUMAN walking.

Using a calibrated piece of eqiupment at a fixed speed is better then a human that gets tired at the end of the day.

Not sure where your thinking is coming from.

re-read the thread. I am talking about smaller jobs..and all of the tight turns and areas that require slightly more and slightly less....not big ones. I have been doing this long enough to know what an LCO is like just by a few comments and their defense of them. I'm not saying my accuracy is superior to yours (although it likely is) merely that your approach and defense of it suggests that lazyness supercedes moral hazzard.

rcreech
11-29-2009, 01:49 PM
re-read the thread. I am talking about smaller jobs..and all of the tight turns and areas that require slightly more and slightly less....not big ones. I have been doing this long enough to know what an LCO is like just by a few comments and their defense of them. I'm not saying my accuracy is superior to yours (although it likely is) merely that your approach and defense of it suggests that lazyness supercedes moral hazzard.

No...you need to re-read...as I have been talking about SMALL LAWNS! What makes you think I am talking any different!

Again...our speed is more constant then you walking on any size lawn!

Trust me...I am not being defensive...but as stated I will argue all day that we are more accurate they push guys.

You can look at it however you would like! :)

rcreech
11-29-2009, 02:04 PM
By the way...I don't call it lazy, I call it "working smarter"!

I do always joke around about being lazy and getting fat on my ride on (I really am getting fat)...but I use a ride on because I feel it does a better job WHILE making me more effecient and accurate.

You can call it lazy if you want...but accuracy is not an issue with ride-ons!

Just wanted to clarify on your "laziness" comment!

grassman177
11-29-2009, 02:40 PM
By the way...I don't call it lazy, I call it "working smarter"!

I do always joke around about being lazy and getting fat on my ride on (I really am getting fat)...but I use a ride on because I feel it does a better job WHILE making me more effecient and accurate.

You can call it lazy if you want...but accuracy is not an issue with ride-ons!

Just wanted to clarify on your "laziness" comment!

i highly agree, we have only a few places we use a push spreader on, for obvious reasons too like accessibility, and width of area to be treated. b ut i have plenty of 4-5 K lawns that are perfectly treated with our ride ons and very accurate too, better looking since i used ride ons than before.

tlg
12-01-2009, 07:45 PM
Define accuracy. Since I assume were all trained professionals and use professional equipment I would think that we ALL know our best and most efficient application methods. The one is better than the other argument is nothing more than an opinion anyway. If you feel compelled to use a ride on on a 5K lawn and KNOW youv'e done a good job... so be it. Likewise for the push spreader guys. Accuracy is controlled by the operator IMO. To say one is better than the other is simply ridiculous. Let's face it, fertilizer prills are going into beds, on to walks and drives, and the street no matter what you use. Accuracy is a great goal. The reality is it's difficult to do no matter what application equipment you use.

cod8825
12-01-2009, 11:19 PM
Just charge a few extra bucks and push the yard.

foreplease
12-02-2009, 12:33 AM
I would use a ride on ALL DAY on a 4K and KNOW that I am applying just as accuratly as a person on a ride on! :)

I should hope so! :laugh: Something is terrible wrong the day you can no longer say that.

foreplease
12-02-2009, 12:47 AM
I have no experience on any of the ride-ons discussed here. All I have is experience on larger equipment, opinion, and intuition. In my opinion, intuition tells me that by using a good push spreader, I could easily make a more even granualr application on to a 4,000 - 6,000 sq ft lawn - and in less time than a ride (unload to loaded total time). We're talking about a Little League size infield (60' x60')

Grandview
12-02-2009, 09:57 AM
I have no experience on any of the ride-ons discussed here. All I have is experience on larger equipment, opinion, and intuition. In my opinion, intuition tells me that by using a good push spreader, I could easily make a more even granualr application on to a 4,000 - 6,000 sq ft lawn - and in less time than a ride (unload to loaded total time). We're talking about a Little League size infield (60' x60')

What about weed control also? Spot spraying? With the ride-on you have it with you. After the 20th lawn you start to get tired. Another spreader to clean at the end of the day. In the long run I find my Z to be the fastest.

foreplease
12-02-2009, 10:20 AM
Yes, it is an (my) opinion only. Ignores weed control. I meant only for granular fertilizer and only for one yard. I do not apply fertilizer and herbicide on same day but understand that many do. As far as spearding and spraying at same time, sure ride-ons are the bomb.

There isn't a right or wrong answer - I am not insisting there is one that is right (or wrong) for everyone.

Josh.S
12-02-2009, 12:11 PM
What about weed control also? Spot spraying?

That is one of the main reasons I use my Z on small yards -- so I don't have to go back to the truck, get the backpack, and walk out to spot spray 2 weeds.

rcreech
12-02-2009, 05:51 PM
If you ran ride-on's, I think you would understand the confidence that we have for those of us that do.

I have a feeling that the only people that would think that "pushing" would be better are the ones that have never ran one.

That is fine to think...but again, I wouldn't post if you don't know!

As TLG stated and I did in a previous post in this thread...no spreader is great on real small lawns as a little overlapping is just going to happen!

But to say you are more accurate or do a better job is just bogus!!!!

lawntennis
12-02-2009, 07:06 PM
I have one guy that requests we only use push spreaders. It's around 10,000 sq but he usually brings out a cold drink. He also has a beautiful yard and lets us put out a sign "Yard Maintained by Sinking Valley Lawn Care" which has brought in some new accounts. Small price to pay.

foreplease
12-03-2009, 11:21 PM
It will be a pretty quiet and one-dimensional day here the first day we can't post an opinion - labeled as an opinion. There can be agreement and honest disagreement about opinions. Assertions can be proven to be bogus, but an opinion candidly given can't very well be bogus IMHO.

Some people value and seek the opinions of others. This is often a good practice, wouldn't you agree?

An observation on arguments: throughout these boards you frequently use the term "as stated" in one post to refer to an assertion you have made in a previous post. As stated is not a valid argument. That is more true of other threads than how it was used in this one, but I have felt like commenting on it in the past and haven't.

Now then...your opinion on this matter appears to be that the only people who think pushing may be better than using a ride on on small areas of 4,000 - 6,000 sq ft are those who have never used a ride on.

I agree with your opinion. *trucewhiteflag*

rcreech
12-04-2009, 07:58 AM
It will be a pretty quiet and one-dimensional day here the first day we can't post an opinion - labeled as an opinion. There can be agreement and honest disagreement about opinions. Assertions can be proven to be bogus, but an opinion candidly given can't very well be bogus IMHO.

Some people value and seek the opinions of others. This is often a good practice, wouldn't you agree?

An observation on arguments: throughout these boards you frequently use the term "as stated" in one post to refer to an assertion you have made in a previous post. As stated is not a valid argument. That is more true of other threads than how it was used in this one, but I have felt like commenting on it in the past and haven't.

Now then...your opinion on this matter appears to be that the only people who think pushing may be better than using a ride on on small areas of 4,000 - 6,000 sq ft are those who have never used a ride on.

I agree with your opinion. *trucewhiteflag*


Forplease,

I was stating more to mdlawn as he is the one that was discussing this. Yes from what you stated that is where I said people that have never ran one may thing that.

As stated...just kidding, you can see many on here that run machines feel the same way.


The reason I always say "as stated" is because I will read a new post and it has already been discussed about 5 times in a previous post in the same thread.

I think opinions are great...but maybe the facts are better and people experience are better sometimes.

foreplease
12-04-2009, 08:21 AM
As stated...just kidding
:laugh:
............

Pilgrims' Pride
12-04-2009, 10:08 PM
After reading through this thread I realized why I dont stop in much anymore.
Rodney why are you playing this game!
Merry Christmas old man. Hope you are well.

rcreech
12-04-2009, 10:12 PM
After reading through this thread I realized why I dont stop in much anymore.
Rodney why are you playing this game!
Merry Christmas old man. Hope you are well.

What do you mean? :confused:

grassman177
12-04-2009, 10:40 PM
What do you mean? :confused:

yeah, confused me too after re reading this thread