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NEWGUYRI
11-28-2009, 05:45 PM
What do you charge? One of my customers wants 40 yards of mulch, they get this every year and pay the supplier directly and then pay me by the man hour. What should I charge?

sc0tt250
11-28-2009, 05:51 PM
I was told by a landscape estimator that if they want to supply the materials thats when you say "ok, i'll do the work for $25/hr". That was for pulling weeds, charge like $30 or $40/hr for spreading mulch and you should be fine!

NEWGUYRI
11-28-2009, 05:56 PM
great, I was thinking 30-40 per/hr for spreading.

laird006
11-28-2009, 06:41 PM
your price per yard of mulch installed (including mulch)- price of mulch= price per man hour.

so if you charge 65 per yard installed and you pay 25 per yard for mulch, charge 40 per man hour.

Hoy landscaping
11-28-2009, 06:49 PM
go by the yard. watever the mulch price is add 10 to it and thats what they pay per yard.

NEWGUYRI
11-28-2009, 06:59 PM
go by the yard. watever the mulch price is add 10 to it and thats what they pay per yard.

thats not how the customer wants it. They want a price per man hour, not per yard

santafe
11-28-2009, 07:11 PM
I, also, think $30-$40/hr is fair, but I don't know what the rest of you think but this sounds like they are price shopping and if you have them for a mowing acct you might be careful what you charge.

ferris09
11-28-2009, 07:25 PM
What do you charge? One of my customers wants 40 yards of mulch, they get this every year and pay the supplier directly and then pay me by the man hour. What should I charge?

You do this every year but you don't what to charge? What did you charge the previous time? If you are getting this for the first time but this is what THEY want then figure how much you would normally charge per yard for mulch and labor and figure out what the hourly would rate would be.

NEWGUYRI
11-28-2009, 07:37 PM
I, also, think $30-$40/hr is fair, but I don't know what the rest of you think but this sounds like they are price shopping and if you have them for a mowing acct you might be careful what you charge.

I don't think money is an issue. They own a multi-million dollar corporation. I just wanted to figure out what a fair price was.

You do this every year but you don't what to charge? What did you charge the previous time? If you are getting this for the first time but this is what THEY want then figure how much you would normally charge per yard for mulch and labor and figure out what the hourly would rate would be.

This IS my first time doing this for them. I'm thinking about renting a small Kubota to spread the mulch(with turf tires).

Daniel's Lawn Care
11-28-2009, 07:40 PM
thats not how the customer wants it. They want a price per man hour, not per yard

Have any idea why they are so picky about paying you by the hour instead of by the yard?

NEWGUYRI
11-28-2009, 07:45 PM
Have any idea why they are so picky about paying you by the hour instead of by the yard?

This is due to their business nature. They own a manufacturing company, as a result they deal with many contractors. They figure, and they are correct, that if they get the mulch from a seperate place there is no markup for me. Also they are just very perticular. Just because they have money does not mean they don't want to save it.

corey4671
11-28-2009, 08:05 PM
your price per yard of mulch installed (including mulch)- price of mulch= price per man hour.

so if you charge 65 per yard installed and you pay 25 per yard for mulch, charge 40 per man hour.

huh????:confused:

dgw
11-28-2009, 08:17 PM
i dont think charging by the yard is the way to go anyway

im not gonna spread 1 yard of mulch in seven small beds filled with annuals , and 500 feet away from where i can dump it, uphill for 25 dollars

nor will i get 2000 for rakin around 25 yardsin a couple huge beds

figure out how long it will take and charge by the hour

dgw
11-28-2009, 08:20 PM
oh and to answer the question , 80 an hour

hackitdown
11-28-2009, 08:49 PM
If it were me, I'd write up a proposal based on your own way of doing business, regardless of how they asked for it. I'd bid $1600 to spread 40 yards. And I'd want to be sure they didn't order 55 yards and tell you it was 40.

georgiagrass
11-28-2009, 11:59 PM
your price per yard of mulch installed (including mulch)- price of mulch= price per man hour.

so if you charge 65 per yard installed and you pay 25 per yard for mulch, charge 40 per man hour.

I apologize in advance for saying this, but you don't know what you're talking about. If, in your example, a contractor is able to spread 2 yards per hour, should he charge $80 per manhour?

To the larger question, why do some of you presume that you are entitled to the same net that you would have made if you had sourced the mulch? IMHO, you should charge the same labor/manhour rate that you charge for any other work that is priced per manhour. The usual margin for mulch installation is not the appropriate benchmark.

You would also do well to heed the caution offered by another contributor that you not be short-sighted and jeopardize a mowing account over your pique at losing a little upcharge for sourcing the mulch. If this customer is a responsible business owner as you state, he/she will know if you are overcharging.

dgw
11-29-2009, 12:15 AM
o the larger question, why do some of you presume that you are entitled to the same net that you would have made if you had sourced the mulch?

i dont personally think your labor rate should depend on who calls the yard and says dump 40 yards in my parking lot

its not like we would of figured drive time to the yard, gas and vehicle wear on 40 yards

well at least those of us without semis

but if im missing something , fill me in, i only come here to learn

topsites
11-29-2009, 03:11 AM
I don't think money is an issue. They own a multi-million dollar corporation. I just wanted to figure out what a fair price was.

First off NOBODY ever has and nobody ever will 'own' a corporation,
it is not possible to own an incorporated business.

A corporation typically consists of a election-based board of memberships, and these folks might be members of the board
which gives them some say so in the affairs of said company, but that's a far cry from outright ownership.

This IS my first time doing this for them. I'm thinking about renting a small Kubota to spread the mulch(with turf tires).

I don't think they want to spend that kind of money, so you might want to start thinking along
the lines of a pitchfork, rake and a wheel barrow, unless you're up to eating the cost of the rental.

Because money is an issue.

andyslawncare
11-29-2009, 03:34 AM
We charge $35-40/yard for labor depending on obstacles to be mulched around and distance to haul from drop site or truck bed. We bid our jobs based on at least $35/man hr before any material costs come into play. 1 man $35/hr, 2 man $70/hr, and 3 man $105/hr. I personally do not accept jobs where the property owner wants to supply the materials...surely if you've done this long enough, you know of suppliers you can trust, rely on, and know that it is a quality product...and most suppliers will give you a discount for being a professional landscape contractor on top of everything else-which will either save the customer 10-20% or make you that much more, depending on how you bid the job...Customers like that sometimes aren't worth the trouble. I do jobs on my time, not their time. And you will be on their time if you accept a job like this...the materials will be delivered on their time, and they will probably want you to install when they are home, once again, their time. If you are anything like me or many other professionals in our field, you don't have the time to be on their time, if you know what I mean-There are other jobs to do every day! It's either they trust your judgment/price/supplier or you don't take the job would be my train of thought in this situation...

delphied
11-29-2009, 07:21 AM
This is due to their business nature. They own a manufacturing company, as a result they deal with many contractors. They figure, and they are correct, that if they get the mulch from a seperate place there is no markup for me. Also they are just very perticular. Just because they have money does not mean they don't want to save it.

This guy doesnt understand that this customer is looking for someone to do piecework for 8 to 10 dollars per hour. If they want to know how much per hour it is because they want to pay low.

keepcuttin
11-29-2009, 08:42 AM
The discount that we get as contractors/professionals is it not profit? and the labor rate we charge goes to paying salaries and taxes? Try taking 3 strips of bacon and 2 eggs and 2 pieces of bread to a diner and ask them How much to cook them for you. I think if you are a legit bus then $40-50 per man hour is reasonable

ALC-GregH
11-29-2009, 08:46 AM
you should be asking this in the "starting a lawn care business" part of the forum.

I get $90 a yard installed without weeding, $120 installed with weeding.

hackitdown
11-29-2009, 08:46 AM
First off NOBODY ever has and nobody ever will 'own' a corporation,
it is not possible to own an incorporated business.

A corporation typically consists of a election-based board of memberships, and these folks might be members of the board
which gives them some say so in the affairs of said company, but that's a far cry from outright ownership.


Last I heard, a corporation is owned by the shareholders. If there is only one shareholder, it is owned by one individual. But shares can be divided any which way. Many corporations have divided ownership into millions of shares. If the shares are bought and sold in markets like NASDAQ, they are considered to be "publicly traded", and will have boards of directors which are supposed to represent the owners/shareholders.

I have owned one corporation entirely (a S corp), and was a 1/3 partner in another (an LLC).

hackitdown
11-29-2009, 08:50 AM
o the larger question, why do some of you presume that you are entitled to the same net that you would have made if you had sourced the mulch?


Because I think I can get it. It is a risk since I may not get the work, but I bet I can. And because I am willing to risk that the phone will ring with a better opportunity than taking the lower paying work.

santafe
11-29-2009, 10:56 AM
This guy doesnt understand that this customer is looking for someone to do piecework for 8 to 10 dollars per hour. If they want to know how much per hour it is because they want to pay low.

I tend to agree. that is why i said earlier be careful what you are charging. i would rather have the mowing than to over price the mulch job.

Damian
11-29-2009, 11:23 AM
I don't do this type of work myself. However...

While I'm tempted to say labor is labor, or labor equals time, I would imagine it's probable some jobs take more out of the man doing the labor than others, so why charge less for this than you would for pruning shrubs, pulling weeds, or any other kind of work? More, I can understand, but there are always variables to factor in.

topsites
11-29-2009, 12:47 PM
Last I heard, a corporation is owned by the shareholders. If there is only one shareholder, it is owned by one individual. But shares can be divided any which way. Many corporations have divided ownership into millions of shares. If the shares are bought and sold in markets like NASDAQ, they are considered to be "publicly traded", and will have boards of directors which are supposed to represent the owners/shareholders.

I have owned one corporation entirely (a S corp), and was a 1/3 partner in another (an LLC).

Good for you now stop twisting the crap around, the whole point I was making is these folks are cheapos!
Because NOBODY owns a multi-million dollar corporation, you didn't own one, the shareholders don't own it either,
if for no other reason than corporate stock is 100% independent from the company's physical assets, dig?

Chilehead
11-29-2009, 01:18 PM
It's too bad about the customer's terms. I charge $60.00/yard installed plus delivery

mdlwn1
11-29-2009, 01:45 PM
Generally speaking, people that are rich got that way for a reason. What they are asking doesnt neccessarily mean they are cheapo's. It could very well mean that they are trying to quantify the value they are getting. I work for one of the richest guys in america and he has no problem paying up for quality or value...as long as you can justify the expense. I would start by determining what you would like to make per day to make it worth it to you. Back out to your hourly rate. If it sounds too high, start thinking where you can throw in value. Maybe you do a nicer job than the other guys? Maybe you will "throw" in minor weeding. Maybe you can lower your price by getting the job done faster? How? using less mulch where it isnt needed? 1 man/1 yard/1 hour...then go up or down depending on difficulty level. Situations like these require thought because the hourly rate doesnt tell the whole story. So what if your 20 or 60 per hour...what happens when the 20/hour guy takes 60 hrs to complete and the 60 dollar guy takes 20 hours to complete? I never gave someone an hourly rate WITHOUT an explanation as to why I would be the best choice.

prizeprop
11-29-2009, 02:49 PM
I am making an assumption, you work alone. If you charge $30 a man hour your only grossing $240 for an 8 hour day. And you still have your fixed expenses to take off of that. Your hourly rate should go up with less guys you have working. Solo should charge $50 a man hour minimum.

laird006
11-29-2009, 03:07 PM
I apologize in advance for saying this, but you don't know what you're talking about. If, in your example, a contractor is able to spread 2 yards per hour, should he charge $80 per manhour?



it would all depend on what you can do in an hour. if you do one yard per hour, charge X amount. If you do 2 yards per hour, charge 2X amount per man hour.

What I was trying to tell him is that if you make for example 40 per your yard, and you do one per hour. then you should charge 40 per man hour.

santafe
11-29-2009, 03:20 PM
I would agree with mdlwn1. as i said before I would still be careful, but I have in the past bid jobs by the hour with the explanation that they would be getting their money's worth. At $40/hr I am not going to be burning daylight. I have other jobs I need to get to. make them understand both of you have the same goal "get it done as quickly as possible with a result you can be proud of".

NEWGUYRI
11-29-2009, 07:27 PM
First off NOBODY ever has and nobody ever will 'own' a corporation,
it is not possible to own an incorporated business.

A corporation typically consists of a election-based board of memberships, and these folks might be members of the board
which gives them some say so in the affairs of said company, but that's a far cry from outright ownership.



I don't think they want to spend that kind of money, so you might want to start thinking along
the lines of a pitchfork, rake and a wheel barrow, unless you're up to eating the cost of the rental.

Because money is an issue.

Shareholders own a corporation, and they own all the shares. Therefore they own the company. BTW this is coming from my dad who has a **** load of experience in these fields. If they own all the shares it means they ARE the board of directors.

We charge $35-40/yard for labor depending on obstacles to be mulched around and distance to haul from drop site or truck bed. We bid our jobs based on at least $35/man hr before any material costs come into play. 1 man $35/hr, 2 man $70/hr, and 3 man $105/hr. I personally do not accept jobs where the property owner wants to supply the materials...surely if you've done this long enough, you know of suppliers you can trust, rely on, and know that it is a quality product...and most suppliers will give you a discount for being a professional landscape contractor on top of everything else-which will either save the customer 10-20% or make you that much more, depending on how you bid the job...Customers like that sometimes aren't worth the trouble. I do jobs on my time, not their time. And you will be on their time if you accept a job like this...the materials will be delivered on their time, and they will probably want you to install when they are home, once again, their time. If you are anything like me or many other professionals in our field, you don't have the time to be on their time, if you know what I mean-There are other jobs to do every day! It's either they trust your judgment/price/supplier or you don't take the job would be my train of thought in this situation...

Thank you for your good thorough advice. The customer is coming around, and will most likely let me get the mulch.

This guy doesnt understand that this customer is looking for someone to do piecework for 8 to 10 dollars per hour. If they want to know how much per hour it is because they want to pay low.

Incorrect. My normal rate for them is higher than many of my other cheapo customers. I charge them 20/per hour for basic tasks. I am looking at atleast 30/per for this job.
Last I heard, a corporation is owned by the shareholders. If there is only one shareholder, it is owned by one individual. But shares can be divided any which way. Many corporations have divided ownership into millions of shares. If the shares are bought and sold in markets like NASDAQ, they are considered to be "publicly traded", and will have boards of directors which are supposed to represent the owners/shareholders.

I have owned one corporation entirely (a S corp), and was a 1/3 partner in another (an LLC).

Correct.

Good for you now stop twisting the crap around, the whole point I was making is these folks are cheapos!
Because NOBODY owns a multi-million dollar corporation, you didn't own one, the shareholders don't own it either,
if for no other reason than corporate stock is 100% independent from the company's physical assets, dig?

Totally false. They are not cheap at all. How could you assume they are cheapos, I never even mentioned any prices. BTW, they are cheapos, stay away from my customer:rolleyes:

Generally speaking, people that are rich got that way for a reason. What they are asking doesnt neccessarily mean they are cheapo's. It could very well mean that they are trying to quantify the value they are getting. I work for one of the richest guys in america and he has no problem paying up for quality or value...as long as you can justify the expense. I would start by determining what you would like to make per day to make it worth it to you. Back out to your hourly rate. If it sounds too high, start thinking where you can throw in value. Maybe you do a nicer job than the other guys? Maybe you will "throw" in minor weeding. Maybe you can lower your price by getting the job done faster? How? using less mulch where it isnt needed? 1 man/1 yard/1 hour...then go up or down depending on difficulty level. Situations like these require thought because the hourly rate doesnt tell the whole story. So what if your 20 or 60 per hour...what happens when the 20/hour guy takes 60 hrs to complete and the 60 dollar guy takes 20 hours to complete? I never gave someone an hourly rate WITHOUT an explanation as to why I would be the best choice.

Thats exactly how they are. They want it justified, they are not cheap.

I am making an assumption, you work alone. If you charge $30 a man hour your only grossing $240 for an 8 hour day. And you still have your fixed expenses to take off of that. Your hourly rate should go up with less guys you have working. Solo should charge $50 a man hour minimum.

No, I don't work alone on mulch. Thanks for the VALID advice!

RollingZimmer
11-29-2009, 11:13 PM
I shoot for 80 a yard, installed, delivered, edged, mulched and weeded.

If its more weeds, the price goes up. If its an easy area, the price goes down.

Figure a big wheel barrow is .8 cubic yards, takes fifteen mins max to fill and spread and travel thats 1.25 yards an hour. $50 an hour is what you should look for.

Have you ever seen 40 yards of mulch? Thats about 120+ wheelbarrows that YOU are carrying, filling and installing.

Have fun with that.

topsites
11-30-2009, 01:54 AM
Shareholders own a corporation, and they own all the shares. Therefore they own the company. BTW this is coming from my dad who has a **** load of experience in these fields. If they
own all the shares it means they ARE the board of directors.

Your dad doesn't run things either, when my company truck breaks down, guess who foots the bill?
Your dad, the shareholders, my dad?
NO!
I do, I write the check, it comes out of my account, and if the account doesn't have the money to cover the check,
MY credit record takes the resulting damage.

Now when a server at Google, Inc. breaks down, who foots the bill?
You, your dad, the shareholders?
NO!
Anyone at that company pay for that POS out of pocket?
NO again!

Nobody there pays for it, nobody who owns any stock of GOOG pays for that POS either,
the money comes out of some corporate bank account, it belongs to Google, INC but nobody
at Google loses much sleep over what goes on in that account, if the check bounces it doesn't
hardly affect anyone's credit record, now does it?

NOBODY can own ALL of the shares for any publicly traded multi-million dollar corporation anyhow.
But even if they did, they STILL don't OWN IT!!!

Because, just for kicks, lets assume I owned ALL of GOOG shares, every single last one.
So, and lets say I decide to sell off ALL of them, guess what?
Does Google go out of business?
No.
Does it break their bank?
No.
Matter of fact it doesn't even phase them, they open up for business just like any other day,
a stock is completely independent of a corporation's finances, it's sales and purchases have
little actual and no direct effect on the company it relates to whatsoever.
GOOG and Google Inc are in effect two completely separate entities.

Not to mention, even if I were to sell, first there needs to be a buyer :laugh:

In summary whether a company does well or otherwise the stock can rise or fall independently, although folks in general
TEND to take good news as bullish and bad as bearish but ultimately a corporation and its stock have no direct connection
to each other at all. Conversely, whether the stock does well or not, the corporation it relates to could really care less,
other than a few customers might turn a stiff upper lip at it because of that, but the rise and fall of its stock on the market
does not affect that company's finances in any way.
At least not directly, maybe folks who think that if a stock is doing badly that must mean the company must suck,
but that's not always the case either, plenty of stocks out there dang near worthless and ain't doing squat, granted
maybe the company isn't a mover and shaker but that doesn't mean they're on the brink of bankruptcy either.

Thank you now.

Totally false. They are not cheap at all. How could you assume they are cheapos, I never even mentioned any prices. BTW, they are cheapos, stay away from my customer:rolleyes:

Well then why are you asking us how much you should charge, just quote high enough for yourself and be done with it!

And I do stay away from them kind, thou most of them know better than to call me in the first place lol

pflasch
11-30-2009, 01:59 AM
Cost of mulch PLUS markup, and then your labor rate!

If you charge by the yard, as one poster put it, you could be doing 20 small flower beds etc vs ONE large bed!! BIG difference in the time factor between the two jobs... so, charge by the hour for your labor PLUS what ever price you have figured for your yard of mulch.
Bid each job as a separate job... AFTER you see what is involved!
This way it's consistent... and every job is profitable!

topsites
11-30-2009, 02:33 AM
Here are two great examples:

When the Iraqi Oil Ministry signed an agreement with British Petroleum (and
China's CNPC) to develop the Rumeila oil field, did BP's stock rise as a result?
No, not at all, not even a little.

When Microsoft released Windows 7, did MSFT rise as a result?
Yes, it did, considerably.

Why didn't the BP stock rise then?
And what if folks had felt a little funny about Microsoft, would the MSFT stock have dropped?
Possibly, but not necessarily, still it would have had no effect on either the price of Windows 7 at the store
nor would Microsoft's bank account have noticed even the slightest change.
Except perhaps if folks did not want Windows 7, but such was not the case.
Granted the stock reflected the attitude, and I don't think it would have or should have fallen, but it could have,
and still folks could have been excited about Windows 7 and Microsoft doing well as a corporation while its stock
plummeted below the line of dirt, yes sir it could have happened because not only has it happened before and will
it happen again, but still the stock and the corporation are not directly connected.

So then lately, while oil prices have been on the rise, has the petrol industry's stock risen as a result?
Slightly yes, but the rise pales in comparison to what was going on a few years ago, still we will see $3 by Winter-Spring at least in 93 premium.

Why?
Because folks aren't into it, having finally realized that purchasing that stock
might make the price at the pump jump further, is my guess?
But then why did it go so far out of control the first time around?
And, does it really help keep prices at the pump down?
Ultimately the petrol industry is just more business that has to meet its costs, these costs get passed on to us,
the consumers, whether their stock rises, or falls, the wells get drilled, the stuff comes out the ground, gets
trucked to the refinery, from there it gets distilled and burnt and refined and then it goes to all the various
distribution points, at whatever cost.
Yes, the strength of the dollar affects the cost of petrol, because the barrel is priced by the dollar.
Does this affect stocks, yes, but not always the way one might think, and still it neither stops nor promotes
the drilling of yet another well, that well is getting drilled if such is in the plans, otherwise not,
whether the stock rises, or falls.

FordLandscapesInc
11-30-2009, 07:20 AM
It's absolutly MIND BOGGLING how difficult some of you guys are making this ;)

chris@perfectlawncare
11-30-2009, 07:59 AM
It's absolutly MIND BOGGLING how difficult some of you guys are making this ;)

+1 just charge like 30-40 per hour and figure you can do a yard per hour.
Posted via Mobile Device

ALC-GregH
11-30-2009, 08:05 AM
+1 just charge like 30-40 per hour and figure you can do a yard per hour.
Posted via Mobile Device

@ 30-40per hour, you might as well work for someone else. Hell, I can go to work for someone at that price now. I opened up my company to make MONEY, not work for peanuts.

dgw
11-30-2009, 08:18 AM
if my statement about why does it matter who orders the mulch sound stupid , let me explain

in my area there are literally 25-30 mulch yards , at at least half of those any tom , dick, or business can buy triple shred at 18 a yard landscaper or not
and at 40 yards , delivery usually is free

therefore if i were bidding a large company who wanted 40 yards , i would not bother marking up the mulch, because of the risk of losing trust. you lose trust your out

having said that i simply explain the process , the correct way of doing things , definitely try to talk them out of the fabric in favor of a pre emergent and tell them my price, which is up to you to decide.

and that price is figured by time taken to complete job

Stillwater
11-30-2009, 08:37 AM
@ 30-40per hour, you might as well work for someone else. Hell, I can go to work for someone at that price now. I opened up my company to make MONEY, not work for peanuts.


self-aggrandizement

ALC-GregH
11-30-2009, 08:39 AM
self-aggrandizement

hahahaha, WRONG.

chris@perfectlawncare
11-30-2009, 09:57 AM
hahahaha, WRONG.

at 40 dollars, you are making quite a lot of money. You have virtually no costs. If you work for someone else, enjoy your 10/hour
Posted via Mobile Device

ADVANCEDOHIO
11-30-2009, 10:03 AM
@ 30-40per hour, you might as well work for someone else. Hell, I can go to work for someone at that price now. I opened up my company to make MONEY, not work for peanuts.

If I, you, or anybody else here COULD make $40/hr working for somebody else doing this type of work... they WOULD!!!

FordLandscapesInc
11-30-2009, 10:12 AM
If I, you, or anybody else here COULD make $40/hr working for somebody else doing this type of work... they WOULD!!!

Absolutly - If i could walk into another mans Landscaping business and start out making $40 per hour I would do it in a SECOND. Im not saying that thats a HUGE amount of money, BUT making that per hour withOUT the stress and headaches that usually accompany that type of pay (being a bus. owner) ... with that being said ; Anyone hiring an expirenced Landscaper w/ pay starting at $40 per hour :waving::laugh: ? CYA

Stillwater
11-30-2009, 10:12 AM
at 40 dollars, you are making quite a lot of money. You have virtually no costs. If you work for someone else, enjoy your 10/hour
Posted via Mobile Device

And for not doing anything, I would say on the phone how many guys you want and when do you want them. I don't leave the office and I keep guys busy when things are slowing down and the guy is not calling another contractor to work on my contracts property

Stillwater
11-30-2009, 10:17 AM
If I, you, or anybody else here COULD make $40/hr working for somebody else doing this type of work... they WOULD!!!

thats over 80G's a year

delphied
11-30-2009, 11:09 AM
thats over 80G's a year

We are talking union wages heh?

NEWGUYRI
11-30-2009, 02:37 PM
Your dad doesn't run things either, when my company truck breaks down, guess who foots the bill?
Your dad, the shareholders, my dad?
NO!
I do, I write the check, it comes out of my account, and if the account doesn't have the money to cover the check,
MY credit record takes the resulting damage.

Now when a server at Google, Inc. breaks down, who foots the bill?
You, your dad, the shareholders?
NO!
Anyone at that company pay for that POS out of pocket?
NO again!

Nobody there pays for it, nobody who owns any stock of GOOG pays for that POS either,
the money comes out of some corporate bank account, it belongs to Google, INC but nobody
at Google loses much sleep over what goes on in that account, if the check bounces it doesn't
hardly affect anyone's credit record, now does it?

NOBODY can own ALL of the shares for any publicly traded multi-million dollar corporation anyhow.
But even if they did, they STILL don't OWN IT!!!

Because, just for kicks, lets assume I owned ALL of GOOG shares, every single last one.
So, and lets say I decide to sell off ALL of them, guess what?
Does Google go out of business?
No.
Does it break their bank?
No.
Matter of fact it doesn't even phase them, they open up for business just like any other day,
a stock is completely independent of a corporation's finances, it's sales and purchases have
little actual and no direct effect on the company it relates to whatsoever.
GOOG and Google Inc are in effect two completely separate entities.

Not to mention, even if I were to sell, first there needs to be a buyer :laugh:

In summary whether a company does well or otherwise the stock can rise or fall independently, although folks in general
TEND to take good news as bullish and bad as bearish but ultimately a corporation and its stock have no direct connection
to each other at all. Conversely, whether the stock does well or not, the corporation it relates to could really care less,
other than a few customers might turn a stiff upper lip at it because of that, but the rise and fall of its stock on the market
does not affect that company's finances in any way.
At least not directly, maybe folks who think that if a stock is doing badly that must mean the company must suck,
but that's not always the case either, plenty of stocks out there dang near worthless and ain't doing squat, granted
maybe the company isn't a mover and shaker but that doesn't mean they're on the brink of bankruptcy either.

Thank you now.



Well then why are you asking us how much you should charge, just quote high enough for yourself and be done with it!

And I do stay away from them kind, thou most of them know better than to call me in the first place lol

Wrong again. Their stock is not publically traded, they do not have a stock.

hackitdown
11-30-2009, 03:09 PM
Now when a server at Google, Inc. breaks down, who foots the bill?
You, your dad, the shareholders?
Nobody there pays for it, nobody who owns any stock of GOOG pays for that POS either,
the money comes out of some corporate bank account, it belongs to Google, INC but nobody
at Google loses much sleep over what goes on in that account, if the check bounces it doesn't
hardly affect anyone's credit record, now does it?

NOBODY can own ALL of the shares for any publicly traded multi-million dollar corporation anyhow.
But even if they did, they STILL don't OWN IT!!!

Because, just for kicks, lets assume I owned ALL of GOOG shares, every single last one.
So, and lets say I decide to sell off ALL of them, guess what?
Does Google go out of business?
No.


a stock is completely independent of a corporation's finances, it's sales and purchases have
little actual and no direct effect on the company it relates to whatsoever.
GOOG and Google Inc are in effect two completely separate entities..


One individual can own an entire corporation. It can then be call "privately owned" as opposed to "publicly traded". From time to time, a company will be "taken private", this is when 100% of the publicly traded shares are purchased by an individual, the company itself (if they have the cash) or another corporation.

Google used to be privately held, from 1998 to 2004, the ownership was shared by the founders, some investors, and employees' stock options. They went public in 2004 with their IPO (initial Public offering). Anyone can buy a share of Google for about $580 today. If you could buy all the millions of shares of the company for ($180 billion), you would own Google. But not all shares are publicly traded, so you can't easily buy them all on NASDAQ, you would have to make an offer for the shares that are not traded, too. If you could afford to buy them all, you could fire all the employees, and turn off the lights if you chose to do so. Some companies will buy a competitor, and do just that.

If a server breaks, you are correct, it is no big deal to the shareholders. However, if there entire server farm and network failed, and business slowed to a halt, you can bet that the shareholders would experience a massive loss, since the stock price would decline. The stock price is a reflection of the value of the business; assets, investments, cash, and goodwill. It is a "share" of the ownership.

I worked for a profitable publicly traded company that was the target of a hostile takeover...IBM bought the company. They fired the CEO and other senior managers, cancelled many products, and laid off large parts of the company. They closed all the sales offices. They were interested in only one product, which somehow helped them strategically. They simply bought all the stock (for $3billion), and they had their way with us! We had literally hundreds of millions of dollars in cash in the bank, and guess what, that was now IBMs cash. Because IBM owned the company. It became a "Wholly owned subsidiary".

NEWGUYRI
11-30-2009, 03:35 PM
One individual can own an entire corporation. It can then be call "privately owned" as opposed to "publicly traded". From time to time, a company will be "taken private", this is when 100% of the publicly traded shares are purchased by an individual, the company itself (if they have the cash) or another corporation.

Google used to be privately held, from 1998 to 2004, the ownership was shared by the founders, some investors, and employees' stock options. They went public in 2004 with their IPO (initial Public offering). Anyone can buy a share of Google for about $580 today. If you could buy all the millions of shares of the company for ($180 billion), you would own Google. But not all shares are publicly traded, so you can't easily buy them all on NASDAQ, you would have to make an offer for the shares that are not traded, too. If you could afford to buy them all, you could fire all the employees, and turn off the lights if you chose to do so. Some companies will buy a competitor, and do just that.

If a server breaks, you are correct, it is no big deal to the shareholders. However, if there entire server farm and network failed, and business slowed to a halt, you can bet that the shareholders would experience a massive loss, since the stock price would decline. The stock price is a reflection of the value of the business; assets, investments, cash, and goodwill. It is a "share" of the ownership.

I worked for a profitable publicly traded company that was the target of a hostile takeover...IBM bought the company. They fired the CEO and other senior managers, cancelled many products, and laid off large parts of the company. They closed all the sales offices. They were interested in only one product, which somehow helped them strategically. They simply bought all the stock (for $3billion), and they had their way with us! We had literally hundreds of millions of dollars in cash in the bank, and guess what, that was now IBMs cash. Because IBM owned the company. It became a "Wholly owned subsidiary".

Yes, finally, someone is correct!

jvanvliet
11-30-2009, 05:03 PM
HUH? I thought this thread was about mulch...

FordLandscapesInc
11-30-2009, 05:20 PM
^^^^ lol , YEA its gotten slightly off topic.

chris@perfectlawncare
11-30-2009, 05:38 PM
And for not doing anything, I would say on the phone how many guys you want and when do you want them. I don't leave the office and I keep guys busy when things are slowing down and the guy is not calling another contractor to work on my contracts property

That's what I would do if I was this guy... get a couple of unskilled laborers and charge double what they make per hour.

3 guys at $10/hour = 30/hour, I'd charge $60/hour.

The only reason I say double is that a friend of mine owns a floor care business and charges that for janitorial work. It'd be a great 30/hour for doing nothing :)

ALC-GregH
11-30-2009, 07:29 PM
If I, you, or anybody else here COULD make $40/hr working for somebody else doing this type of work... they WOULD!!!

You see, your wrong again. I can find a full time job as a auto tech (still have my certifications) making $30+ an hour. I got tired of making other shop owners $60+ an hour AFTER I got $30+. I couldn't afford to open a auto repair shop, the up front equipment cost can be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. I opened a lawn service company because I wanted to deal with people directly and make the majority of the money after doing all the work. Plus it has a lower start up cost. I picked up a good full service customer after they were not satisfied with the other they had. Their neighbor (very hot woman) stopped me while I was cleaning up the leaves and asked if I was the leaf guy. Long story short, I finished her place up today. I don't normally make posts about my numbers but my "net" per hour was close to $60 per hour for raking leaves. She wants me to come back in the spring as she's not happy with the lawn guy they have ( I think it's the same guy but haven't asked) and wants a list of things done each spring. She was extremely happy with my clean up price and said I come across very friendly and polite. Then she said the other guy wasn't professional at all. I think he stared at her all the time because she's so hot. I know is was hard to keep eye contact but I did. :D

chris@perfectlawncare
11-30-2009, 08:26 PM
You see, your wrong again. I can find a full time job as a auto tech (still have my certifications) making $30+ an hour. I got tired of making other shop owners $60+ an hour AFTER I got $30+. I couldn't afford to open a auto repair shop, the up front equipment cost can be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. I opened a lawn service company because I wanted to deal with people directly and make the majority of the money after doing all the work. Plus it has a lower start up cost. I picked up a good full service customer after they were not satisfied with the other they had. Their neighbor (very hot woman) stopped me while I was cleaning up the leaves and asked if I was the leaf guy. Long story short, I finished her place up today. I don't normally make posts about my numbers but my "net" per hour was close to $60 per hour for raking leaves. She wants me to come back in the spring as she's not happy with the lawn guy they have ( I think it's the same guy but haven't asked) and wants a list of things done each spring. She was extremely happy with my clean up price and said I come across very friendly and polite. Then she said the other guy wasn't professional at all. I think he stared at her all the time because she's so hot. I know is was hard to keep eye contact but I did. :D

How many hours did you work?

I apologize, but I don't believe you. Either it's a joke or you made 60 bucks for a job that you finished in an hour, which I would qualify as a minimum price...

FBT
11-30-2009, 08:48 PM
How many guys are going to be moving this Mulch? If it's 1 guy moving 40 yards... pack a sleeping bag because you'll be spending the night.

NEWGUYRI
11-30-2009, 09:02 PM
How many guys are going to be moving this Mulch? If it's 1 guy moving 40 yards... pack a sleeping bag because you'll be spending the night.

I have 2 plans:

1. Rent a tractor, with turf tires and have me and 1 or 2 others

2. Go full out with 4-8 guys and wheel barrels.

I would never do a job of this size myself, it's just too overwhelming, and it would take days......

FBT
11-30-2009, 09:17 PM
Don't rent a tractor, it's going to confuse things. Bring 4 guys including you and charge $125.00 per hour and get it done in one day. 10 hours or less. You gotta come out charging like a unfit bull!

Stillwater
11-30-2009, 10:28 PM
Don't rent a tractor, it's going to confuse things. Bring 4 guys including you and charge $125.00 per hour and get it done in one day. 10 hours or less. You gotta come out charging like a unfit bull!

a paltry 25.00 per hr.

Mahoney3223
11-30-2009, 10:47 PM
We charge $30.00 per man hour...this will include anything labor related..i mean anything weed pulling, leaf pick up, mulch etc.

FBT
11-30-2009, 11:30 PM
$125.00 per hour times a 8 hour day is $1000.00. Minus $400.00 to pay the help and lets just say another $200.00 for your business stuff and you'll clear $400.00 for the day. I don't know about you but that's a pretty good day for anybody. One more thing, I put a yard of Mulch in a lady's yard last week and charged $175.00. Do you actually think if I put 40 yards in I could charge $7000.00?

brucec32
12-01-2009, 01:08 AM
thats not how the customer wants it. They want a price per man hour, not per yard

You're not really operating as a business. You're simply their personal day laborer, it sounds like.

Do you call Dominos and ask them to send someone over to cook a pizza you bought the ingredients for at the grocery store so you can save money? They pay cooks $10/hour so you offer him $5, it cost you $5 for ingredients, and you save $5 over the $15 pizza cost? Think they'll go for that?

It's customary for businesses to provide materials and be paid a markup over cost to do so. If you WANT to charge for your labor, per hour, and not handle the materials delivery, that is one thing. But to have them dictate that to you is another.

With mulch the "easy money" is in the ordering and arranging delivery of the materials. That 20% markup could be as much as you make in 5 hours or more of miserable labor. So, do you want to be a laborer or a businessman? The businessman makes $200 on the materials for a few minutes time on the phone arranging the delivery.

On the other hand, if you are so cash poor you cannot afford to order 40 yds of mulch and get paid after the job is done, you are undercapitalized and
will operate at lower profitability until you overcome that. Low barriers to entry exist in this business. Not NO barriers.

As for what to charge, that depends on a wide variety of factors, such as your equipment, your skill level/experience at this, slopes, access to beds, etc, etc, etc. So asking "what do you charge?" really is too broad to be useful.

brucec32
12-01-2009, 01:17 AM
hahahaha, WRONG.

Agreed. You neophytes need to smarten up and learn how to do this stuff efficiently so you can earn decent money. I don't do much mulch but I know I can undercut the "going rate" and still make a gross profit of $80/hour on it on an easy lot and I'm old! It can vary, sure, but not way down to $30/hour!

If you happen to live in some depressed area, maybe, but man, there have got to be easier ways of netting $20/hour (most of you have no conception of how to even calculate that, unfortunately) in a business. You work 9 months a year, you net $20/hour after costs, and presto, you have got yourself a $15/hour job. No thanks.

FYI, when the mulch costs $20 and you charge $50, you did not just "net" $30. That number comes AFTER your expenses, including depreciation on your truck, equipment, etc. Don't confuse CASH FLOW with PROFIT. And that is just TIME ON SITE. Don't forget to factor in the time spent maintaining your gear, arranging jobs, quoting, traveling, and doing paperwork. That $15/hour job you gave yourself could be even worse.

delphied
12-01-2009, 07:43 AM
FYI, when the mulch costs $20 and you charge $50, you did not just "net" $30. That number comes AFTER your expenses, including depreciation on your truck, equipment, etc. Don't confuse CASH FLOW with PROFIT. And that is just TIME ON SITE. Don't forget to factor in the time spent maintaining your gear, arranging jobs, quoting, traveling, and doing paperwork. That $15/hour job you gave yourself could be even worse.

Exactly. And if you Einsteins actually use an accountant for taxes, ask him what his hourly cost is. You think he might want to charge $15 or $20 per hour to do your taxes. After all, thats pretty easy money compared to spreading mulch.

ALC-GregH
12-01-2009, 08:45 AM
How many hours did you work?

I apologize, but I don't believe you. Either it's a joke or you made 60 bucks for a job that you finished in an hour, which I would qualify as a minimum price...

I worked a total of 12hrs and the bill was over $900.You can believe what you want. I still made that much money on the job regardless of what you think.

santafe
12-01-2009, 02:32 PM
I worked a total of 12hrs and the bill was over $900.You can believe what you want. I still made that much money on the job regardless of what you think.

there has got to be a locale difference ,because there is no way you could get away with that around here. It has got to be similiar to a worker making $10/hr in rural midwest would have to make $20/hr in n.y. to hold the same standard of living.

ALC-GregH
12-01-2009, 09:15 PM
Whatever it may be. I have a dentist, engineer, high school principal and a few others all in the same dead end street near the base of the Appalachian mountains. They're willing to pay good money for great service. $1-3mil homes on 1.5-2 acre semi wooded lots.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/americanlawncare/CIMG0093-1.jpg

ADVANCEDOHIO
12-01-2009, 10:03 PM
You see, your wrong again. I can find a full time job as a auto tech (still have my certifications) making $30+ an hour. I got tired of making other shop owners $60+ an hour AFTER I got $30+. I couldn't afford to open a auto repair shop, the up front equipment cost can be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. I opened a lawn service company because I wanted to deal with people directly and make the majority of the money after doing all the work. Plus it has a lower start up cost. I picked up a good full service customer after they were not satisfied with the other they had. Their neighbor (very hot woman) stopped me while I was cleaning up the leaves and asked if I was the leaf guy. Long story short, I finished her place up today. I don't normally make posts about my numbers but my "net" per hour was close to $60 per hour for raking leaves. She wants me to come back in the spring as she's not happy with the lawn guy they have ( I think it's the same guy but haven't asked) and wants a list of things done each spring. She was extremely happy with my clean up price and said I come across very friendly and polite. Then she said the other guy wasn't professional at all. I think he stared at her all the time because she's so hot. I know is was hard to keep eye contact but I did. :D

Again, full of yourself working harder to bash as many people on Lawnsite as you can in a day.... You missed the part of doing "this type of work" for $40/hr. This isnt mechanicsite.com It sounds like your pissed somebody else was making more money than you could even though you were making good money yourself and you try to take it out on every person (especially the new ones here) that ask questions even if they didnt "search" for past threads. I feel sorry for the lady that you charge $60/hr to rake her leaves for her. Thats robbery... You should go work for the Obama Administration.

ALC-GregH
12-01-2009, 10:14 PM
Again, full of yourself working harder to bash as many people on Lawnsite as you can in a day.... You missed the part of doing "this type of work" for $40/hr. This isnt mechanicsite.com It sounds like your pissed somebody else was making more money than you could even though you were making good money yourself and you try to take it out on every person (especially the new ones here) that ask questions even if they didnt "search" for past threads. I feel sorry for the lady that you charge $60/hr to rake her leaves for her. Thats robbery... You should go work for the Obama Administration.

I don't have a clue what your talking about. Pissed? mechanicsite? You sound jealous your area can't bare that price.

TwoBrosLawn
12-02-2009, 03:27 AM
for myself to do mulch i charge 45/yard of mulch...thats labor and cost of mulch....i also pay 17 a yard for oak picked up and 23 delivered I have no help and no employees.

ALC-GregH
12-02-2009, 07:56 AM
for myself to do mulch i charge 45/yard of mulch...thats labor and cost of mulch....i also pay 17 a yard for oak picked up and 23 delivered I have no help and no employees.

There is no way I would sell a yard of mulch for $45 installed. I'd sit home and do nothing first. My price is double that and I get it. I pay $26-29 a yard for good mulch. If I sell it at $45 a yard installed, I'd be making McDonald's burger flipping wages. It just ain't going to happen.

ADVANCEDOHIO
12-02-2009, 08:17 AM
There is no way I would sell a yard of mulch for $45 installed. I'd sit home and do nothing first. My price is double that and I get it. I pay $26-29 a yard for good mulch. If I sell it at $45 a yard installed, I'd be making McDonald's burger flipping wages. It just ain't going to happen.

So a customer wants 10yds of mulch brought out and put down.. You pay $290 for the mulch and charge $610 to put it down? (45x2x10) Our co avg is 2yds per man hour (wheelbarrow/pitchfork). 5hrs - $610.... Thats $122/hr???? You must have the finest equipment and highest paid employees around. Or the market there is waaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy different one state away. Or... you throw a lot of BS around. :rolleyes:

hackitdown
12-02-2009, 11:01 AM
Again, full of yourself working harder to bash as many people on Lawnsite as you can in a day.... You missed the part of doing "this type of work" for $40/hr. This isnt mechanicsite.com It sounds like your pissed somebody else was making more money than you could even though you were making good money yourself and you try to take it out on every person (especially the new ones here) that ask questions even if they didnt "search" for past threads. I feel sorry for the lady that you charge $60/hr to rake her leaves for her. Thats robbery... You should go work for the Obama Administration.

We have been getting $300+ for cleanups this year, easily getting $50 per man/hr, and usually better. But we don't rake much.


So a customer wants 10yds of mulch brought out and put down.. You pay $290 for the mulch and charge $610 to put it down? (45x2x10) Our co avg is 2yds per man hour (wheelbarrow/pitchfork). 5hrs - $610.... Thats $122/hr???? You must have the finest equipment and highest paid employees around. Or the market there is waaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy different one state away. Or... you throw a lot of BS around. :rolleyes:

I wouldn't do mulch for $45/yd either. We get $75/yd, and I pay about $30/yd avg for mulch. We easily do 15 yards in a day with 2 guys. So $675 in labor for 5 or 6 hours of labor for 2 guys. A fair price for all.

BTW, we don't pitchfork anything. We spill it or rake it out of the dumptruck directly into two 10 cu/ft double-wheel wheelbarrows. We do 3 yards per hour easy, more if the beds are wide open. Sometimes I back the truck right up to the bed and let it rip.

ALC-GregH
12-02-2009, 02:14 PM
So a customer wants 10yds of mulch brought out and put down.. You pay $290 for the mulch and charge $610 to put it down? (45x2x10) Our co avg is 2yds per man hour (wheelbarrow/pitchfork). 5hrs - $610.... Thats $122/hr???? You must have the finest equipment and highest paid employees around. Or the market there is waaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy different one state away. Or... you throw a lot of BS around. :rolleyes:

I work mostly alone. I can average 1.5 yards an hour by myself. I get $90 a yard installed and if the beds are full of weeds it jumps to $120 a yard installed. No BS here just the cold hard facts. :waving:

delphied
12-02-2009, 03:09 PM
I work mostly alone. I can average 1.5 yards an hour by myself. I get $90 a yard installed and if the beds are full of weeds it jumps to $120 a yard installed. No BS here just the cold hard facts. :waving:

No use arguing,this profession has been taken over by scrubs that feel bad about making too much money. Little do they realize they would do better working for MC Donalds. You are just lucky the scrubs havent taken over your area.

santafe
12-02-2009, 11:04 PM
No use arguing,this profession has been taken over by scrubs that feel bad about making too much money. Little do they realize they would do better working for MC Donalds. You are just lucky the scrubs havent taken over your area.

define scrub.

kemco
12-03-2009, 12:56 AM
First off NOBODY ever has and nobody ever will 'own' a corporation,
it is not possible to own an incorporated business.

A corporation typically consists of a election-based board of memberships, and these folks might be members of the board
which gives them some say so in the affairs of said company, but that's a far cry from outright ownership.





Sorry if this was already addressed. But yes, it is very possible to "own a corporation" - in fact not only possible, it is the only way for an incorporation to exist. Shares of stock must be issued at the time of incorporation. These shares represent exactly that... ownership. If one person owns all the shares of the stock, that person does in fact own 100% of the corporation including all of the assets (and all of the liabilities). If 100 people have 1 share of stock each, ever person owns 1% of the corporation... Just wanted to clarify that a bit.

Oh, and the board of directors is voted in by the owners/shareholders of the corporation.

NEWGUYRI
12-03-2009, 06:11 AM
All of you arguing, its pointless and you are not considering that in different areas of the country prices vary a lot including your expenses!

delphied
12-03-2009, 09:29 AM
All of you arguing, its pointless and you are not considering that in different areas of the country prices vary a lot including your expenses!

I do know that Stihl blowers used to be cheaper by about $50 in the south than in the north. Mowers may be a little less in some instances too. How is it so much less expensive to buy most things in other areas? The going rate for labor seems to be around 8 bucks/ hour everywhere. A doublecheese is $1 at Mcdonalds here or in Pasadena CA. I dont see a big difference in costs in certain areas.

topsites
12-03-2009, 10:59 AM
I didn't mean to get into an argument and I'm sorry about that, but all I was trying to say...

Is when a customer starts flaunting the money?
When they say money is no issue, when they brag about it or act like it grows on trees?
Mark my words ladies and gentlemen, with them folks money is ALWAYS an issue.

Because most anytime someone like that comes around, all you gotta do is just quote them
a stupid high price right off the bat, seeing how it's not an issue, and guess what?
It's over, right then and there, try it and see.

Now I realize some folks here gotta do what they gotta do, fine, no problem.
And I'll accept that they're not bad customers, too.

But don't think for a minute that because a customer acts like this that you can just go renting some $200+ a day Kubota and
quoting no $40+ an hour, not saying you shouldn't try it but watch yourself or you'll be eating the cost of the rental and hating life.

So better off if you get a job like this, plan on working for it.

santafe
12-03-2009, 07:40 PM
I was looking around in the christmas lights forum. there was a guy who did a $30,000 job for a home owner. they were obviously very rich and yet the next year they tried to hire his guys out from under him. so again i say be careful what you charge.

Perfect touch landscapes
12-03-2009, 07:52 PM
I always have charged 40.00 per yard for purchase and 45.00 per yard to spread ofcouse depending if back yard is night mare to acess I make up in higger delivery charge. Anyways my delivery is 45.00 under 6 yards. If I have a trailer that can fit 10 yards , means I payed more for trailer and burn more gas and take more risk so I charge as two deliverys. now Some nurseries will give you a scoop that is not a full yard, actually most nurserys here give you only 3.4 of yard but swear it is full , so I found place that I get close to 900 yards a year from so when they load me up their 2 yards is like other nurseries 3, so I charge for what yard is most places. Because I found places where I get more , because of my business I charge less for labor, more for mulch and bid looks good and customer happy.
10 yards mulch job , 10x40=400 materials two deliverys 90.00 + 450 installation.

Perfect touch landscapes
12-03-2009, 08:04 PM
How can you put a hourly wage on every mens labor. We can spread 10 yars crew of two in 2 hours , perfect job with 200 plants, yet some competitors or I would say most will take 6 hours for a crew of 3 , so if they are charging by the hour, does that mean I broke my back , payed more for employees hard work, had bigger equipment , better strategies, and I still should charge per hour. There are some jobs you bid by volume know how fast you do it and better and faster you do it more you keep more I can pay to my employees as an additional comming for good help. I thing in our line of work there should be not hourly wage. 100 guys have 100 different work ethics and they all will do same job differently , now if customer asked them all who charges what per hours , does that mean they all will try the same ,have same to offer? NO so every men is for him self. I make of mulch close to 200.00 and hour because i kick ass( no bragging ) and I still try to figure our ways to do better and faster.

FBT
12-03-2009, 08:20 PM
You can spread 10 yards of Mulch with a 2 man crew and get it done in 2 hours? That's funny! I don't think you know what 10 yards of Mulch looks like.

santafe
12-03-2009, 08:44 PM
How can you put a hourly wage on every mens labor. We can spread 10 yars crew of two in 2 hours , perfect job with 200 plants, yet some competitors or I would say most will take 6 hours for a crew of 3 , so if they are charging by the hour, does that mean I broke my back , payed more for employees hard work, had bigger equipment , better strategies, and I still should charge per hour. There are some jobs you bid by volume know how fast you do it and better and faster you do it more you keep more I can pay to my employees as an additional comming for good help. I thing in our line of work there should be not hourly wage. 100 guys have 100 different work ethics and they all will do same job differently , now if customer asked them all who charges what per hours , does that mean they all will try the same ,have same to offer? NO so every men is for him self. I make of mulch close to 200.00 and hour because i kick ass( no bragging ) and I still try to figure our ways to do better and faster.

if there was a way to shorten this quote and make it customer friendly, it would be a good explantion to the folks that want a hourly bid.

ALC-GregH
12-03-2009, 09:08 PM
You can spread 10 yards of Mulch with a 2 man crew and get it done in 2 hours? That's funny! I don't think you know what 10 yards of Mulch looks like.

My BS flag popped up when I read it.

brucec32
12-03-2009, 10:28 PM
So a customer wants 10yds of mulch brought out and put down.. You pay $290 for the mulch and charge $610 to put it down? (45x2x10) Our co avg is 2yds per man hour (wheelbarrow/pitchfork). 5hrs - $610.... Thats $122/hr???? You must have the finest equipment and highest paid employees around. Or the market there is waaaaaaaayyyyyyyyy different one state away. Or... you throw a lot of BS around. :rolleyes:


Install work varies incredibly, often based on what someone is ballsy enough to ask for. The high self-esteem guys with good reputations and plenty of work already will go for the gusto. The newbies in tough markets hungry for work will obviously accept less. But at the very bottom end you would expect them to want more for it than for mowing, and that is $60/hour plus work if one has experience, good equipment, and a little hustle.

Also don't discount the time required to set these jobs up. Bidding a maintenance job, you bid once and have years of work ahead of you. With this the hours spent are for a single day's work. From babysitting owners to supervising the delivery, to scheduling crews only to find the mulch hasn't arrived, it can be full of pitfalls. So charging more is a good way to guard against those pitfalls.

DFLS
12-04-2009, 10:36 PM
go by the yard. watever the mulch price is add 10 to it and thats what they pay per yard.

What if they got really cheap mulch? I have seen mulch as low as $15 / yard and as high as $38 / yard. And when the customer buys it you have to shovel it off the ground into the wheelbarrow vs off the truck into the wheelbarrow.

Stillwater
12-04-2009, 10:42 PM
How can you put a hourly wage on every mens labor. We can spread 10 yars crew of two in 2 hours , perfect job with 200 plants, yet some competitors or I would say most will take 6 hours for a crew of 3 , so if they are charging by the hour, does that mean I broke my back , payed more for employees hard work, had bigger equipment , better strategies, and I still should charge per hour. There are some jobs you bid by volume know how fast you do it and better and faster you do it more you keep more I can pay to my employees as an additional comming for good help. I thing in our line of work there should be not hourly wage. 100 guys have 100 different work ethics and they all will do same job differently , now if customer asked them all who charges what per hours , does that mean they all will try the same ,have same to offer? NO so every men is for him self. I make of mulch close to 200.00 and hour because i kick ass( no bragging ) and I still try to figure our ways to do better and faster.



you don't sound like you have been in this industry very long

10 yards in 2 hours doing a perfect job around 200 plants, well you would have to fill, travel and empty and spred 1 contractors wheel barrow every 2 minutes..... your not serious...

topsites
12-05-2009, 01:23 AM
You can spread 10 yards of Mulch with a 2 man crew and get it done in 2 hours? That's funny! I don't think you know what 10 yards of Mulch looks like.

See that's just the half of it, this particular thread started asking about 40 cubic yards!

Honestly I have never in 8 years spread that much by myself...
At least not for one customer, in one sitting.

Now I've said what I had to say so I'll boil it down, best I can...

Start off covering the cost real quick...
Regardless of whether it's charged hourly or per yard, this job is going to cost somewhere between 750 and 800 dollars.
Why, because if you quote 760 they'll almost for sure say yes, and the closer you get to 800 the more the customer will likely flinch.
It's just no two ways about it, that's what they're willing to pay, why because most folks won't pay a dime over $20 a cubic yard
and I could be wrong, try quoting a thousand and let us know...

But for say 760 dollars that is a solid week's worth of work, assuming the weather holds half way...
The overhead is stupid low, a $100 barrow, a $50 pitchfork, a $30 rake.
You're out $180 but those tools will last you 10-20 years and pay for themselves many times over.

You can, busting tail, do 4 cubic yards in the morning, 4 in the afternoon.
Why, the days are short, if you start at 9 am you finish half by noon, run grab lunch back by 1 you're lucky to get done before dark.
And 8 cubic yards may not sound like much but that's over 3 tons of mulch, or about 6,400 pounds.
By the barrow that's 28 barrows a sitting, if you want to be sure you're really
knocking out 4 cubic yards, otherwise you can try 24 wheel barrow loads.

Also depends how you load the barrow, I would recommend loading it flush with the sides,
some folks like to heap it but every time you hit a bump it spills...
You want to knock out the pile faster but have a lot to clean up after or the other way around, up to you.

And you can try knocking out more in a day but doing that will likely leave you so sore you can't work for 3 days, don't laugh it ain't funny.
Because more than a few cubic yards will likely have to travel some distance.
On a good day, when the bed is right beside the pile or close to it, yeah...
2 minutes per barrow to load and dump, another 2-3 to spread it, you can plan on knocking out 2 cubic yards an hour.
At a rate of 6 barrows per cubic yard, why was I thinking 7 earlier, hmmm....
But distance slows things way down, you might only be able to knock out 1 (to 2) cubic yards an hour.

Because more than likely all of that 40 is going to be in one big bad pile someplace, and from there it has to go everywhere else.


Anyhow...

That's 8 cubic yards a day, 5 days.
Granted you can try a little more like 10 a day, that would help especially if the weather decides to get in the way.
Oh, and if they say 750 is too much, tell them you can't do it for less (especially since money is no issue lol, sorry I had to).

Have fun.

prizeprop
12-05-2009, 07:38 AM
You can spread 10 yards of Mulch with a 2 man crew and get it done in 2 hours? That's funny! I don't think you know what 10 yards of Mulch looks like.

What so funny about that?If a man cant move 1.25 yrds every half hour thats funny.

ADVANCEDOHIO
12-05-2009, 09:31 AM
I always have charged 40.00 per yard for purchase and 45.00 per yard to spread ofcouse depending if back yard is night mare to acess I make up in higger delivery charge. Anyways my delivery is 45.00 under 6 yards. If I have a trailer that can fit 10 yards , means I payed more for trailer and burn more gas and take more risk so I charge as two deliverys. now Some nurseries will give you a scoop that is not a full yard, actually most nurserys here give you only 3.4 of yard but swear it is full , so I found place that I get close to 900 yards a year from so when they load me up their 2 yards is like other nurseries 3, so I charge for what yard is most places. Because I found places where I get more , because of my business I charge less for labor, more for mulch and bid looks good and customer happy.
10 yards mulch job , 10x40=400 materials two deliverys 90.00 + 450 installation.

$940.00 for a 10yd mulch job. You would not have one (1) job in this area. Talking about prices, hourly wages, costs, etc.... Every area is different and you obviously feel you are the best around. Every person here should have those feelings about the services they provide. YOU need a reality check. And $180.00 to deliver 10yds of mulch???? I'm inclined to believe you are full of more BS than anything else.

ADVANCEDOHIO
12-05-2009, 09:34 AM
my bs flag popped up when i read it.

exactly!!!

Ric3077
12-05-2009, 09:40 AM
$940.00 for a 10yd mulch job. You would not have one (1) job in this area. Talking about prices, hourly wages, costs, etc.... Every area is different and you obviously feel you are the best around. Every person here should have those feelings about the services they provide. YOU need a reality check. And $180.00 to deliver 10yds of mulch???? I'm inclined to believe you are full of more BS than anything else.

He is not too far off from my price which is $85/yard installed so 10 yards would be $850. I get this all year long...at 20 yards or more I do drop the price to $75/yard installed.

ADVANCEDOHIO
12-05-2009, 09:48 AM
We have been getting $300+ for cleanups this year, easily getting $50 per man/hr, and usually better. But we don't rake much.

I understand this and our cleanups are also similar in price and avg per/hr. It was the fact of charging $60/hr to "rake" leaves. We dont "rake" leaves but its tight enough turning very good profit per hr/job using BR600's. How many leaves can be "raked" in an hour vs blown & sucked up?? Just seems that efficiency here would be a factor. And I do understand everybody here has diff ways, feelings, outlooks. Its just my take on this one. I like the interesting conv and info sharing here. The bashing, downtalking, bragging when obvious BS is there..... I could prob do without, but its entertainment at times.

FBT
12-05-2009, 04:59 PM
What so funny about that?If a man cant move 1.25 yrds every half hour thats funny.

Well it's the funniest thing I read on this site because it's not possible. 1.25 yards EVERY half hour? Hilarious!

moremow
12-05-2009, 05:46 PM
Tell the corporation that is trying to save money to haul it in there themselves, and then get about 100 of their own employees to put in about 4 hours work each and then it will get done. Think of how much money they will save. Then the cheap skates will know what it is like to work in the cold & dirt and do an honest days work for a change

topsites
12-05-2009, 06:00 PM
Tell the corporation that is trying to save money to haul it in there themselves, and then get about 100 of their own employees to put in about 4 hours work each and then it will get done. Think of how much money they will save. Then the cheap skates will know what it is like to work in the cold & dirt and do an honest days work for a change

Now we're talking!

That's right, anytime a customer orders their own mulch, you said it, they are trying to SAVE money!
That's the whole point I was trying to make, and I really wouldn't have a problem with the practice
of saving money except they drop the ball on us because the mulch yard sure ain't giving it away,
they don't get squat from them so now they expect one of us to do it (for less).

But the little punk just sat there presenting one argument after the next, because he came to the side of
the argument where Lco's might know a thing or two, yet he didn't want to hear that!
I should have just encouraged the fart knocker, sent him right inside the lion's mouth, 40 cubic yards LOL!
Yeah go on and rent that Kubota, uh huh...

Then again he probably done ran off to dad or his customers by now, don't go back there he was told,
come on over here, we'll take care of you.

Wild goose chase is what this is, someone calling all around seeing WHO is going to give them a discount.
On a quick side note, my favorite is when the mulch's already been delivered heh

It ain't no cheaper whether they get one of us to deliver it or they order it straight from the yard themselves,
either way they're paying for the mulch and the delivery, it might make a difference of a few dollars this way or that,
but the only way it's going to be way more expensive one way or the other is if someone wasn't paying attention.
Either way the puny 5 or 10 bucks difference is nothing that will impress anyone looking for a discount
because these folks were expecting to save just a little bit more than 20 or 30 dollars!

And you can do it, if you need the work at least there's a good chance you
will get paid, but what I've been saying, plan on working for it.

Hoy landscaping
12-05-2009, 06:51 PM
ask what they paid last year

andyslawncare
12-05-2009, 10:12 PM
$35-40 per yard

prizeprop
12-06-2009, 08:57 AM
Well it's the funniest thing I read on this site because it's not possible. 1.25 yards EVERY half hour? Hilarious!I dont agree, but thats alright.

hackitdown
12-06-2009, 12:16 PM
Well it's the funniest thing I read on this site because it's not possible. 1.25 yards EVERY half hour? Hilarious!

It really is possible. It is all about equipment and situation.

If you drop the mulch directly into big wheelbarrows from a dumptruck, and the area to be mulched is pretty open, it can go quick. I have two 10 cu/ft wheelbarrows that I place right under the dump. Two wheelbarrows fill in a matter of seconds. Anyone can easily move and rake out 4 wheelbarrow loads in 30 minutes. How hard is that? And that is 40 cu/ft, about 1.5 yards.

Now if you are pitchforking from a pile into a 6 cu/ft wheelbarrow and then dealing with lots of plantings, you would be lucky to do 1 per hour.

NEWGUYRI
12-06-2009, 12:50 PM
Now we're talking!

That's right, anytime a customer orders their own mulch, you said it, they are trying to SAVE money!
That's the whole point I was trying to make, and I really wouldn't have a problem with the practice
of saving money except they drop the ball on us because the mulch yard sure ain't giving it away,
they don't get squat from them so now they expect one of us to do it (for less).

But the little punk just sat there presenting one argument after the next, because he came to the side of
the argument where Lco's might know a thing or two, yet he didn't want to hear that!
I should have just encouraged the fart knocker, sent him right inside the lion's mouth, 40 cubic yards LOL!
Yeah go on and rent that Kubota, uh huh...

Then again he probably done ran off to dad or his customers by now, don't go back there he was told,
come on over here, we'll take care of you.

Wild goose chase is what this is, someone calling all around seeing WHO is going to give them a discount.
On a quick side note, my favorite is when the mulch's already been delivered heh

It ain't no cheaper whether they get one of us to deliver it or they order it straight from the yard themselves,
either way they're paying for the mulch and the delivery, it might make a difference of a few dollars this way or that,
but the only way it's going to be way more expensive one way or the other is if someone wasn't paying attention.
Either way the puny 5 or 10 bucks difference is nothing that will impress anyone looking for a discount
because these folks were expecting to save just a little bit more than 20 or 30 dollars!

And you can do it, if you need the work at least there's a good chance you
will get paid, but what I've been saying, plan on working for it.

Just so you and your smart ass will shut up, they paid 3,250 FOR IT TO BE INSTALLED LAST YEAR, LET ALONE THEM BUYING THE MULCH. SO will you stfu and get the **** out of this thread already.