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View Full Version : Ford F550, LCF, Dodge 5500 or Isuzu NPR?


Joe Spinelli
11-28-2009, 11:27 PM
Need a little advice here... I'm looking to get back into the roll-off dumpster business in Southern California.. I spent a few years in the business on Long Island NY and now I'm looking to get back into it in California. I'm looking at new trucks, I've looked at the Ford F550s, Ford LCF's, Dodge 5500's and Isuzu NPR's. I'm scratching my head as to which one would be best for me and what I need. The truck will be set up with a 12-14 foot cable roll-off hoist, depending on the CA of the truck. I will be pulling 5,10 & 15 yard dumpsters, all with light duty stuff. No roofing, no concrete, nothing heavy. Mostly garage and attic clean out stuff.
In NY, I ran an international 4700 s/a roll-off, the truck was great to me. Problem is most of my work was in a 20 mile radius. Here, in Ca. I figure most of my work will be within a 50 mile radius. If my profit (before gas) is going to be $150.00, I can't put $60.00 of it into the gas tank. That wont work. I'm not going to be pulling any trailers or anything, As far as payload an empty container is probably 2000lbs and maybe another 4000lbs in the container when its full. So I will be pulling 6000lbs. Speed limit here is 70 but I'm going to keep it around 55. What truck is going to get me the best mpg and treat me the best. All insight welcome, Thanks Guys.

Gravel Rat
11-29-2009, 02:01 AM
For one the LCF is out they are not that good and if you are a big guy forget about getting into it. Now a F-550 ya it would work but what year are you planning on buying a 6.4 will kill you on fuel. A Dodge 5500 isn't proven truck and the 6.7 Cummins is far from being reliable.

I went through the whole thing myself I'am in the junk removal bussiness part time I looked into building my own rolloff truck on a F-450/550 I just couldn't justify it. I have a dumping flatdeck on my F-450.

My truck is by the hour and I have a labour rate. Truck is 60 dollars per hour and 20 per hour when I load the truck. If it takes me a hour to get to the job and a hour to the landfill it is 120 dollars in trucking usually 2 hours to load.

tnmtn
11-29-2009, 11:15 AM
unless you will be going and downhills often i would go wth the isuzu. the only diffrence being that i would price the NRR models for the extra payload. i think it always pays to go for a bit more GVW than you think you will need. otherwise i would look at the GMC/Chevy 5500's there are great deals on them, still new. i have been nothing but impressed by mine.
good luck,

JD7210
11-29-2009, 11:29 AM
Go with the Dodge 5500. We currently are runniing 2 new Dodge 3500 cab chassis with the aisin automatic, and like everything about them. The 3500 is virtually the same truck as the 4500 and 5500 except more GVW and heavier front and rear axle. Try one you wont be disappointed! When they were first introduced the had a few glitches, but what doesn' the first year out.

willretire@40
11-29-2009, 11:40 AM
I have done the roll off business before. If I was to do it again I would proably do LCF with a hooklift and 12 yard cans. With that setup you could carry almost 4 tons in the box and be legal. Reason I would go with the LCF is because I heard it gets 12-14mpg all the time. My f750 only got 7mpg.
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willretire@40
11-29-2009, 11:41 AM
Also don't buy new because there are way to many deals out there for slightly used trucks. Check out truckpaper.com
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Joe Spinelli
11-29-2009, 01:40 PM
Guys, Thanks for all in the input. Gravel Rat, I've thought about doing what you do, problem is there are 150,000 thousand other guys that do that. In my opinion, to survive in this economy, I need to be able to diversify myself and offer a service that no one else can. There are not to many guys with s/a roll-offs in Southern California (there are a few in the Los Angeles area) but none around where I am. If you want to rent a dumpster where I am you have 2 choices, you can rent the 3 yard front load box or a 40 yard roll-off, that's it. Nothing in between.
In addition to MPG the other thing that is important to me is these new diesel emissions laws coming out. I'm thinking the best thing for me to do right now is to buy a used truck and have a new hoist put on it, I'd have about 3 years with that truck (before the new California laws make me take it off the road) and in that time I can determine if business is worthy of buying a new truck. If it is, then I go to the dealership and we take the hoist off the old truck and put it on the new one.
So lets say we narrow it down to the Ford F550, Dodge 5500 and Isuzu NPR, The Ford and the Dodge are both V8's.. correct? On a good day, will I get 15mpg pulling an unloaded dumpster? (2000lbs) What about the Isuzu, most of them are only 4 cylinder turbo diesels correct? What kind of mpg will I get in that pulling the same empty dumpster? 90% of the driving will be on freeways @ 55mph. No major hills or anything.
As far as GVW I'm going to get as close to 26,000 as possible, I know I can get 19,5 in the Ford & the Dodge, not sure about the Isuzu. Since I'm looking at used it might be more of a "what I can" find situation, not a "what I want" situation. Once again all input welcome, Thanks guys.. Joe

unkownfl
11-29-2009, 03:08 PM
f550 with 6.0 you will see sub 12mpg with a 7 speed manual

willretire@40
11-29-2009, 03:20 PM
I did 10 an 20 yard cans and the 10 yard cans were requested the most. In this economy I really would just stick with the 12 yard cans. It will save you a great deal on your start up cost and they are really easy to sale to your clients. Trash business is a low profit business compared to how much you spend to get it started. Only count on getting 5 cans out a week for the first couple of months. please just remember that the economy is totally different compared to 2-3 years ago and I can't stress that enough.
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TXNSLighting
11-29-2009, 03:40 PM
Guys, Thanks for all in the input. Gravel Rat, I've thought about doing what you do, problem is there are 150,000 thousand other guys that do that. In my opinion, to survive in this economy, I need to be able to diversify myself and offer a service that no one else can. There are not to many guys with s/a roll-offs in Southern California (there are a few in the Los Angeles area) but none around where I am. If you want to rent a dumpster where I am you have 2 choices, you can rent the 3 yard front load box or a 40 yard roll-off, that's it. Nothing in between.
In addition to MPG the other thing that is important to me is these new diesel emissions laws coming out. I'm thinking the best thing for me to do right now is to buy a used truck and have a new hoist put on it, I'd have about 3 years with that truck (before the new California laws make me take it off the road) and in that time I can determine if business is worthy of buying a new truck. If it is, then I go to the dealership and we take the hoist off the old truck and put it on the new one.
So lets say we narrow it down to the Ford F550, Dodge 5500 and Isuzu NPR, The Ford and the Dodge are both V8's.. correct? On a good day, will I get 15mpg pulling an unloaded dumpster? (2000lbs) What about the Isuzu, most of them are only 4 cylinder turbo diesels correct? What kind of mpg will I get in that pulling the same empty dumpster? 90% of the driving will be on freeways @ 55mph. No major hills or anything.
As far as GVW I'm going to get as close to 26,000 as possible, I know I can get 19,5 in the Ford & the Dodge, not sure about the Isuzu. Since I'm looking at used it might be more of a "what I can" find situation, not a "what I want" situation. Once again all input welcome, Thanks guys.. Joe

Wow, no The cummins is a I6...wow

Gravel Rat
11-29-2009, 04:19 PM
At best you will only get 12mpg with a F-450/550 it doesn't matter if its a 7.3 or 6.0 if its a 6.4 look at 8mpg. It is cheaper to run a V-10 truck if your looking at new.

I'am in the same boat all you can rent is a 3 yard bin or a 40 yard bin. There is a local disposal company that does have 10 yard bins and he isn't busy.

The big problem is our landfill regulations you can't have a mixed bin of junk and dump it. Recycling is a big part of things here. Metal and wood are recycled along with drywall. So if you have a 10-12 yard bin full of mixed debris you have to sort it as you unload it.

Nobody want to spend the money for separate bins for each item they have and nobody ever sorts what they put in a bin so its a mixed up mess.

If I do garbage removal I have to load the truck so it comes off the truck in the right order I can't dump the load it has to be unloaded by hand.

The benefit of having a rolloff for me would be easier to load I can drop a bin on the ground and load it instead of lifting heavy stuff into the truck.

Also having a rolloff would mean I could do more jobs in one day if you know the stuff the person wants to haul away is one type of item only like yard debris etc.

In todays economy what has killed my work is the " Do it Yourself " attitude to save money. More and more people are doing their own cleaning up they bought utility trailers or have a pickup truck and they do it themselves.

Even on new construction or reno jobs the homeowners are doing the clean up to save money.

I used to be busy and now I have nothing people are into saving every penny they can.

Joe Spinelli
11-29-2009, 11:28 PM
Gravel Rat, Where do you advertise? I've done a lot of research and spoke to a lot of people, yellow book doesn't have the grip it did 10 years ago, not when we have google at our finger tips. I think "business" as a whole, and I mean every business, has changed in a lot of ways. The customer has changed. I agree that a lot of people look to save money.. and when you can rent a 26 foot Ryder truck with unlimited miles for $60.00 who would want to rent a dumpster... For $60.00 + gas + dump you can have your self a 40 Yard dumpster. However, I think a lot of people don't know that and a lot of people who do aren't interested in driving a 26 foot Ryder truck. I think it all comes down to how you advertise, the service you offer, and the quality of service you provide.. In addition to value and pricing. Let me know what you guys think... Joe.

willretire@40
11-29-2009, 11:44 PM
I had a half page ad in two phone books that brought in work but not enough. I got about 2 calls from online phonebooks. I don't get many calls from google for my lawn care and I am on the first page a lot. I belive you do need phonebook ads and they are getting cheaper every year. You really have to get out there and talk to roofers and roof supply companies. Also put fliers out just as you would for a lawn company because homeowners do use those dumpsters quite a bit and they are normally only a ton in weight also with fliers you never know when you will be hitting a contractor or handyman house.
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Joe Spinelli
11-30-2009, 12:19 AM
Craigslist... You have any ads on there? I don't mean 2 written lines I mean like a nice colorful ad with some pictures?

willretire@40
11-30-2009, 12:36 AM
I did written lines and got a few off of craigslist if I ran a special. Just update it every couple days.
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willretire@40
11-30-2009, 12:37 AM
Are you in the lawn business?
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Gravel Rat
11-30-2009, 06:06 AM
Gravel Rat, Where do you advertise? I've done a lot of research and spoke to a lot of people, yellow book doesn't have the grip it did 10 years ago, not when we have google at our finger tips. I think "business" as a whole, and I mean every business, has changed in a lot of ways. The customer has changed. I agree that a lot of people look to save money.. and when you can rent a 26 foot Ryder truck with unlimited miles for $60.00 who would want to rent a dumpster... For $60.00 + gas + dump you can have your self a 40 Yard dumpster. However, I think a lot of people don't know that and a lot of people who do aren't interested in driving a 26 foot Ryder truck. I think it all comes down to how you advertise, the service you offer, and the quality of service you provide.. In addition to value and pricing. Let me know what you guys think... Joe.

Where I live phone books are not used for looking up businesses. Internet isn't used much either. Around here your advertising is word of mouth and who you know. I have tried all kinds of advertising and not much works.

As for people doing the work themselves they have pick ups or trailers nobody rents a truck to do a clean up job. It may take them 20 trips with a small utility trailer but they do it.

It is all about saving money it doesn't matter about anything else.

I used to have lots of work not anymore there is too many people doing clean up work with mini vans or pickup trucks. I can't haul for what they are charging.

Not much I can do I operate a legal truck I'am insured for hauling but when your undercut by the fly by night or these people looking for a quick buck. People doing clean up jobs with their car throwing bags of garbage in the truck on the back seat or strapped to the roof. Mini vans stuffed full hauling garbage to the landfill. Cars pulling utility trailers full of trash.

I have hauled everything and anything but lately not a thing :cry:

Even my contractor friends that do reno jobs and new construction are hauling the debris from the jobs they are working on to save the homeowner money.

If a homeowner can save 50 dollars even 10 dollars some even try save 1 dollar.

Joe Spinelli
11-30-2009, 11:54 AM
I hate to say it but... maybe its time to throw the towel in? That's rough. One of the reasons I want a roll-off is so I can have a flatbed roll-off. I figure I can drop it by Home Depot with a for rent sign on it. If you have a big order of wood or something it's a lot easier to unload it from a flatbed that 8 inches off the ground then a truck that's 3 or 4 feet of the ground. Just another reason I want a roll-off, nothing like being able to have 1 truck and 5 or 10 different set-ups.
As far as the ads.. You guys are missing out big time if your not on Craigslist. Craigslist is the new yellow book. A good friend of mine is a mechanic, not quite my business of choice but.. He's been in the business a long time. I put a nice, colorful (but simple) ad on Craigslist.. He's getting about 6 or 7 calls a week from that ad. Now I realize there is a difference between being a mechanic and being in the lawn care or hauling business but I think it just goes to show that craigslist has great potential for marketing a small business. I should mention that he does get calls from the usually weirdos that have nothing else to do with there time and they call and ask about the stupidest things but I suppose it you gotta take the good with the bad... Let me know what you guys think...Joe

lawn king
11-30-2009, 12:57 PM
The npr has come a long way in the last few years! More hp, 6 speed, more cab room and a much better ride. You will not beat the npr on mpg!

wellbuilt
11-30-2009, 09:49 PM
In my area alot of guys have dump trailers.
I rent dump trailers as a side line . i have 2 7x12 and 1 6x10 I rent one every week or so .
I have a LCF and it a nice truck . My problem is with ford. Its hard to get a lcf fixed around here and parts seem to be a problem .
I think a 550 would be better .
My lcf gets around 8 mpg loaded and 15mpg hi way .

johnnybravo8802
11-30-2009, 10:11 PM
At best you will only get 12mpg with a F-450/550 it doesn't matter if its a 7.3 or 6.0 if its a 6.4 look at 8mpg. It is cheaper to run a V-10 truck if your looking at new.

I'am in the same boat all you can rent is a 3 yard bin or a 40 yard bin. There is a local disposal company that does have 10 yard bins and he isn't busy.

The big problem is our landfill regulations you can't have a mixed bin of junk and dump it. Recycling is a big part of things here. Metal and wood are recycled along with drywall. So if you have a 10-12 yard bin full of mixed debris you have to sort it as you unload it.

Nobody want to spend the money for separate bins for each item they have and nobody ever sorts what they put in a bin so its a mixed up mess.

If I do garbage removal I have to load the truck so it comes off the truck in the right order I can't dump the load it has to be unloaded by hand.

The benefit of having a rolloff for me would be easier to load I can drop a bin on the ground and load it instead of lifting heavy stuff into the truck.

Also having a rolloff would mean I could do more jobs in one day if you know the stuff the person wants to haul away is one type of item only like yard debris etc.

In todays economy what has killed my work is the " Do it Yourself " attitude to save money. More and more people are doing their own cleaning up they bought utility trailers or have a pickup truck and they do it themselves.

Even on new construction or reno jobs the homeowners are doing the clean up to save money.

I used to be busy and now I have nothing people are into saving every penny they can.

Hey Rat, let me get your opinion on the V-10-I know you're a big Ford fan. I found an 06' F550 XLT with 52,000 for $18,200-it has a 9' flatbed. I pull a trailer with 2 large ZTR's 99% of the time and I'm stepping up from a Dodge 1500 with a 4.8. I want to make sure I get plenty of truck!:weightlifter:I may have some pinestraw subbed to me in the spring-1000+ bales/wk and will be hauling as much as possible on the truck and trailer I have. I have heard a lot of negatives about the newer diesels-low MPG, high upkeep costs, mech. probs, more money per gallon, etc. It almost seems better to go with a V-10. What's going to be the difference in MPG and pulling power between the two. Also, what is the longevity difference. I like the V-10 because it appears to be the same proven engine, whereas the diesel keeps changing and getting worse. What do you think?

Joe Spinelli
11-30-2009, 10:21 PM
What about the International CF600, That's the same truck as the Ford LCF correct? So all the specs and MPG are going to be pretty much the same? Any one know? Thanks.

Gravel Rat
12-01-2009, 03:09 PM
Hey Rat, let me get your opinion on the V-10-I know you're a big Ford fan. I found an 06' F550 XLT with 52,000 for $18,200-it has a 9' flatbed. I pull a trailer with 2 large ZTR's 99% of the time and I'm stepping up from a Dodge 1500 with a 4.8. I want to make sure I get plenty of truck!:weightlifter:I may have some pinestraw subbed to me in the spring-1000+ bales/wk and will be hauling as much as possible on the truck and trailer I have. I have heard a lot of negatives about the newer diesels-low MPG, high upkeep costs, mech. probs, more money per gallon, etc. It almost seems better to go with a V-10. What's going to be the difference in MPG and pulling power between the two. Also, what is the longevity difference. I like the V-10 because it appears to be the same proven engine, whereas the diesel keeps changing and getting worse. What do you think?

If you read Tow411.net find the posts made by LSChicago he has V-10 powered Ford tow trucks and hasn't had any problems with them.

The one your looking at would have a 3 valve engine and if its a automatic it would have the torqshift behind it.

It is 3 years ago now when I was looking for a truck I was looking at a 05 F-550 4x4 V-10 I wish I bought the d*mn thing over the diesel I have now.

My next truck is a V-10.

willretire@40
12-01-2009, 03:25 PM
I kept meaning to tell you to do a search for the cf600 hooklift that was forsale up here. I would think it is a good truck. Cab overs are good for when you are on those tight streets with cars park all around yoou and you have to back that dumpster in a driveway. it sucks to go knocking on neighbors doors asking if the can move their car because your truck has a horrible turning radius and long hood....example Fords
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Gravel Rat
12-01-2009, 04:13 PM
The 05 and newer F-550s are supposed to have a better turning radius but a truck like my 03 F-450 with the leaf springs with a regular cab and 165 wheelbase it doesn't turn so sharp. The 05s have radius arm coil spring suspension it allows the wheels to turn sharper.

For city streets and interurban driving a cabover is the way to go. If your doing lots of freeway driving a F-550 or a truck with a hood is the way to go.

You do know what they say about cabovers " You are first on the accident scene"

For California I would think a cabover would be fine for where I go a cabover doesn't do well offroading. Peoples driveways and access roads to their properties can be a offroad adventure. Mechanical parts on cabovers hang low and they would hit the ground where I go.

I should have 4wheeldrive just for the safety factor or a front mounted winch. I push my luck with a 2wd and just a locker in the diff.

johnnybravo8802
12-01-2009, 06:01 PM
If you read Tow411.net find the posts made by LSChicago he has V-10 powered Ford tow trucks and hasn't had any problems with them.

The one your looking at would have a 3 valve engine and if its a automatic it would have the torqshift behind it.

It is 3 years ago now when I was looking for a truck I was looking at a 05 F-550 4x4 V-10 I wish I bought the d*mn thing over the diesel I have now.

My next truck is a V-10.
Thanks for the reply. How do you like the V-10? Every dealer I call suggests the V-10 over the diesel for the work I do. They say the diesel is only advantageous if you keep it on the road doing long trips. For me, according to them, the gas is better for stopping and starting a lot. I'm stepping up from the Dodge 1500 so I think I'll have enough truck.:laugh::laugh:

South Florida Lawns
12-03-2009, 04:18 PM
My nursery had a v10 dodge and said that it towed just as good as there cummins. I'd say go with the NPR-HD they have the 5.2L 4cyl are cheaper and I'm sure easier to work on than the V6 powerstroke in the LCF.

Gravel Rat
12-03-2009, 04:33 PM
If fuel economy is a big factor a cabover with the 4 banger is the way to go. I know many that have had the GMC cabovers essentially a Isuzu with a GMC logo had miles and miles of use and very little repairs. The cabs rotted off from excessive rust but the engine run like a top. Many had 400,000kms (249,000 miles) that is alot for this area and the hills the trucks see daily.

The cabovers were no big power makers so don't expect to stomp on the throttle and it push you back in the seat :laugh:

I seen a LCF Ford the other day and it was running the V6 PSD sounds like a 6.0. Not sure if I would buy a LCF. One of the building suppliers bought a Sterling cabover and they seem to really like the truck.

You want a cabover that runs the 17.5 wheels the ones with the 16 inch wheels the tires are constantly overloaded.

Drew Gemma
12-03-2009, 04:59 PM
rat what do you think of the nqr Isuzu or w5000 GMC. How big of a pain in the but is a 176 inch wheel base gonna be to drive.

Gravel Rat
12-03-2009, 05:43 PM
A cabover is a easy truck to drive you just have to remember where the front wheels are. The firedept has that problem with new fire truck drivers with the cabover trucks.

A 176 wheelbase Isuzu will turn sharper than my 165 wheelbase F-450.

Cabovers are good for working in a city or city streets I sure wouldn't want to be doing interstate driving with one. Then you guys in the USA have the freeways with the expansion joints every 10 feet a cabover would be a rough ride.

The big thing you also have to watch out for is overloading the front axle on a cabover. The GMC trucks around here eat steer tires like you wouldn't beleive. It is from the trucks carrying alot of weight on the front axle.

One of the guys I know has a 3500 GMC cabover with a 14 foot box it maybe shorter I think it is 14 foot. He puts 3000lbs in the truck the steer tires look flat they are 16 inch.

You really do need the trucks with the 17.5 or even better 19.5 tires.

Where the LCF Ford shines is it runs 19.5 tires it has the same rear axle used in the F-450/550 trucks the Dana S110 is a good axle. It has 4 wheel disk brakes the others use drum brakes.

Drew Gemma
12-03-2009, 07:02 PM
the nqr runs the 19.5 I will disagree rear drums work safer and better than disk with heavy loads we are changing rear disk constantly wher as the rear drum trucks last 10 times longer and have a much firmer pedal. anyways thanks for your input

doubleedge
12-03-2009, 08:16 PM
Where the LCF Ford shines is it runs 19.5 tires it has the same rear axle used in the F-450/550 trucks the Dana S110 is a good axle. It has 4 wheel disk brakes the others use drum brakes.

If I remember correctly, the Ford LCF doesn't have engine braking, and the Isuzu does. This should increase brake longevity and perhaps even give the Isuzu more stopping power.

johnnybravo8802
12-03-2009, 10:35 PM
What is the overall opinion on the LCF? I haven't heard anything positive about them. One guy I spoke with said that they were a rip off of the old Isuzu body style and that they were a total flop for Ford. He said that people are trying everything they can to get rid of them. I see adds for them with low miles and they are really cheap. I think they are really nice looking trucks and can't figure out what the problem is with them. They have really high GVW's and that's what impresses me-more than the Isuzu. I do wonder about the powerstroke and wonder if that would be the breaking deal?

360ci
12-03-2009, 11:11 PM
LCF will serve you well. It has a smaller 4.0L V6. However, For the $500 a year or so extra in fuel I'd get the Dodge 5500 with the 6.7L Cummins. If you don't plan to haul anything toward the max paylaod range, you can opt for the automatic, or better yet, get the standard and the taller axle ratio for low rpm highway cruising, which should net around 13-15mpg.

Gravel Rat
12-04-2009, 03:24 AM
The 5500 Dodges are junk the tow truck guys are not really impressed with them. Far cry on getting good mileage at best 10mpg. As usual Dodge put springs in a truck that are too light. Right off the bat you have to beef up the rear springs.

You want a proven chassis get a F-550 they have been made since 99. Dodge hasn't built a good cab and chassis ever maybe some people have luck with them.

When I looked at a Dodge 5500 Chassis I wasn't impressed the first thing I looked at the rear springs the cheap spring hangers.

johnnybravo8802
12-04-2009, 10:10 AM
The 5500 Dodges are junk the tow truck guys are not really impressed with them. Far cry on getting good mileage at best 10mpg. As usual Dodge put springs in a truck that are too light. Right off the bat you have to beef up the rear springs.

You want a proven chassis get a F-550 they have been made since 99. Dodge hasn't built a good cab and chassis ever maybe some people have luck with them.

When I looked at a Dodge 5500 Chassis I wasn't impressed the first thing I looked at the rear springs the cheap spring hangers.
I'm really surprised at a Dodge 5500 not being a good truck. I love the looks of them and am a big Dodge fan. I drove an F550 a couple of days ago with the V-10 and thought,"This is a good truck but not a great truck." It didn't have the romp I was expecting from such a large engine. Any diesel I've driven would have buried it with torque and speed. The Fords just don't seem as comfortable. Maybe because I've driven my Dodge for 7 years, but when I get back in my truck, I like it better. The Dodge seems a lot more plush, even with the more basic package.

JD7210
12-04-2009, 11:22 AM
Gravel Rat who do you get your information from? Here in the midwest every tow company around is switching to dodge tow trucks. Sure the Ford chassis has been made since '99 but how about the rest of it. I guess 99-03 were the good years with the 7.3l. How about the 6.0? I think i will let you answer that. How about the 6.4l? 2 or 3 year production run? Whats proven about that............We are currently running 2 new Dodge 3500 cab chassis, and are 100% satisfied.

willretire@40
12-04-2009, 11:25 AM
The repo companies around here seem to really like those dodges. It could just be because it is something new compared to ford been having f450/550
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Drew Gemma
12-04-2009, 01:38 PM
Ford and dodge around here but more and more are going Isuzu. By the way Dodge sucks and so does Ford.

Gravel Rat
12-04-2009, 04:56 PM
Anybody that has bought the Sterling version of the 5500 they are not impressed. When I looked at a 5500 and I said I looked at the rear springs I knew right away that sure enough not strong enough.

The first F-550 I used I put 10,000lbs on the back of it you couldn't tell it had a load. The same truck has been well used and is used every day.

You want a proven 2 ton truck buy a F-550 even used ones with blown transmissions sell for 7 grand and has 300,000kms on it.

As for the V-10 not having power a F-550 doesn't move quick when you have 4:88 axle gears. Put a load on the truck and it travels the same speed.

willretire@40
12-04-2009, 05:01 PM
Gravel rat seems to know his trucks. I have seen him talk about trucks on a couple different forums. He always seems to be right. Only thing I have disagreed with him on so far is that he seems to think cable is better then hooklift. lol
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Gravel Rat
12-04-2009, 05:11 PM
I'am not a big beleiver on hooklifts I seen them power out. What I have pulled on a cable operated rolloff would make a hooklift power out.

For a F-550 sized rolloff truck you want what ever system you use to be light enough. The switch and go is probably the lightest system you can get.

If I do build my own it will be a conventional rails similar to a switch and go but the rails tails would touch the ground.

TXNSLighting
12-04-2009, 06:44 PM
I know a couple people around here with LCF's and they love them, Great fuel economy and great power. Very roomy as well..Ones got 112,000 miles, the other has 70 something. One of em had to do a new turbo (under warranty). But other than that theyve been problem free.

South Florida Lawns
12-04-2009, 07:46 PM
So bottom line what do you guys think is gonna be the cheapest truck to run in his situation? The 5500/550 chassis cabs, the LCF or the Isuzu?

I have spent a great deal of time all around southern Calif. and no doubt would take a cabover over a conventional truck. The turn radius always surprised me what they could do and visibility is great too.

Drew Gemma
12-04-2009, 09:15 PM
The Isuzu!

Gravel Rat
12-05-2009, 12:13 AM
For a well proven cab over go with Isuzu/GMC.

lawn king
12-05-2009, 07:13 AM
My npr has been a great worktruck, just turned 68000 k.

willretire@40
12-06-2009, 06:08 PM
What did you decide Joe?????

Joe Spinelli
12-06-2009, 11:39 PM
I'm still scratching my head on this, I've looked at it from 50 different angles. If I decided to go out and buy a brand new truck, without a doubt, I'd go with the International CF600 aka The Ford LCF. For me personally, it has everything I need. The problem is, if I do go out and buy a brand new truck, I'm going to have to make payments on that truck for 5 years. Between the truck payment and insurance that's going to be at least $1,500 a month. And as you guys know, the bank doesn't want to hear that I had a slow month when it comes time to give them money. I really believe that I have a great marketing plan and that I will be able to make good money but I think its a good idea to have a back-up plan just in case I'm wrong. If the $hit hits the fan and I have to sell everything, I'm going to have a hard time trying to sell a truck that I owe $50,000 on.
I think I'm going to buy a used roll-off truck.. There are some auctions coming up that have some single axle roll-offs. If i buy a used one for $8000 or $10000 and decided in 12 months that business isn't worth it, it will be a lot easier to turn around and re-sell it at cost and walk away even. I can't do that with a brand new truck. If in 12 months I decided wow this is a great business, then I will go out and buy a brand new truck. I just don't think its smart to buy a brand new truck for a start up business. I think its better to get my feet wet before I dive in head first. What do you guys think? Joe.

P.Services
12-06-2009, 11:59 PM
what about a roll off trailer? do you have a heavy duty pick-up?

Joe Spinelli
12-07-2009, 12:14 AM
Not my cup of tea... I've seen them and I just don't like them. Same reason I would never go with a hook-lift. I've always had a conventional cable roll-off and its what I know and what I like. Some old dogs don't want to learn new tricks, I'm one of them I guess.

P.Services
12-07-2009, 12:17 AM
the trailers are cables. it would be a low entry cost to get you into the biz and then you could step up to a dedicated truck if things took off and sell the trailer or you could keep it to deliver the empties and use the truck to remove the loaded tubs. it would be alot easier to sell a trailer then a truck.

Gravel Rat
12-07-2009, 12:17 AM
Start looking for repoed trucks or trucks that have been taken back because of original owner couldn't pay.

I wouldn't go new either not with a market of used trucks that are selling fairly cheap.

Joe Spinelli
12-07-2009, 12:31 AM
There was a guy in Northern California (Craigslist) that had a trailer for sale, he wanted $12,000 for it. There are a few guys that make them new, they want about $15,000- $20,000 for them. I haven't seen any for real cheap yet. I suppose if I could get a really good deal on one I would consider it, it would get my foot in the door. The other problem is the rails look really really wide. I need something that will pick up used "standard" containers. Unless I want to buy new container.. ( I don't)
I got a Ritchie Brothers auctions coming up.. It's a week before x-mas so I'm hopping everyone is out shopping for toys rather then hitting the truck auction. They got some a few s/a roll-off trucks there.

willretire@40
12-07-2009, 11:34 PM
Not my cup of tea... I've seen them and I just don't like them. Same reason I would never go with a hook-lift. I've always had a conventional cable roll-off and its what I know and what I like. Some old dogs don't want to learn new tricks, I'm one of them I guess.

Why would you never get a hooklift? You never have to get out the truck when dropping a container. Overseas they use hooks over cable. Especially if you are doing small boxes.

What made you want to go with lcf/cf600?

Gravel Rat
12-08-2009, 12:34 AM
The only problem with a conventional rail system on a truck like the LCF is you either need a dead lift system like the Switch and Go or extendable/retractable rail tails or rail tails that have a bend to allow you to get enough dump angle.

The only thing I don't like about the switch and go is the way the box has to be designed for that system. The snipe on the front bottom corner of the box makes you loose some space.

As I have said used to run a conventional rail system on a tandem axle it works good for the 40 yard bins.

Joe Spinelli
12-08-2009, 11:18 AM
I Found it.... What do you guys think?

willretire@40
12-08-2009, 12:57 PM
Looks good. Is that only 17,500 gvw? Is that at an auction?
Posted via Mobile Device

Joe Spinelli
12-08-2009, 01:09 PM
Actually this was on video posted on youtube called "Rare garbage trucks." The guy who posted the video said its used by the city of Gilbert, Arizona. I don't know what the gvw is. If I was going to buy a brand new truck, this is exact setup I would go with. Like I said thought, I don't think buying a brand new truck for a start-up business is a smart thing to do. I'm going over to the Ritchie bros auction next week and see if I can grab a used roll-off truck for under $10,000.

Drew Gemma
12-08-2009, 06:03 PM
I am looking for an 06 NQR or W550 150 or 176 wb

BrandonV
12-09-2009, 07:18 PM
I Found it.... What do you guys think?

that's the rebadged LCF that international sells. we have a lcf and love it, we have a switch n go. turning is great, power is great and it is a comfortable cab, not the best in the world but comfortable.

ConstSvcs
12-09-2009, 10:35 PM
I went with a Isuzu FRR chassis and the Switch-N-Go system. It was the right combination for us, 19,500 gvw with an empty curb weight of 11,700. We have 15 & 12 yd. containers and a beaver tail flatbed.

The standard electric over hydraulic system works well for us but for a waste hauler I would go with the full hydraulic system.

I went with the FRR chassis because it has the Isuzu turbo 200hp inline six cylinder at 472 cu inches.

This truck has a C/A distance of 108"

here is the load/unload video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k65cCLquIrs

ConstSvcs
12-09-2009, 10:42 PM
I am looking for an 06 NQR or W550 150 or 176 wb

Be careful..........the cab to rear axle ratio is critical with cab forward trucks. Long wheel bases force you into longer bodies that load the front axle beyond its weight rating.

Just my 2 cents

Joe Spinelli
12-09-2009, 11:05 PM
If I was going to be loading my own containers, I would consider the switch-n-go hoist. What I'm looking to do, I'm going with a hydraulic hoist. So this is the truck that is at Ritchie Bros auctions, it's a 2006 Ford F650. They took a tandem axle hoist (probably rated for 60,000lbs) and put it on a single axle truck, I'm sure this hoist would puck up 20 yards of dirt or concrete, only problem is the truck wont. This truck is being sold to "dealers only" because it has a blown engine, I'm going to try and get the truck for a few thousand.. not sure if that will be possible but worth a shot. It would be a inexpensive way back into the business, in a year or so if things went good I would buy a new truck and still have some re-sale value in this one. Tell me what you guys think. Joe

willretire@40
12-09-2009, 11:35 PM
I think they wont let it go for less then $10k.

Gravel Rat
12-09-2009, 11:45 PM
That truck is awfully light. Your not going to have much payload on it I looked at the VIN and its only a 26,000lb gvw truck.

All depending on what is wrong with the engine plan on minimum 5 grand it maybe more being a 24 valve engine.

Joe Spinelli
12-10-2009, 12:11 AM
Gravel rat, I'm glad I don't owe you money, your good at finding things! Do tell, how did you find the vin? :) Anyway, yeah it's got a GWV of 26,000 which is what I'm looking for. I gave my CDL up a while back. When I took this picture (last auction when it was supposed to be sold) I also looked through the truck and found some paperwork from the dump. When he weighed out the truck weighed 18,000lbs, I'm guessing that was with a 20 or 30 yard box. We can figure that the box weighted 2000-3000lbs depending on who made it. My guess is the truck weights about 15 or 16 thousand pounds just the way it sits. So that leaves me some room for payload, not a whole lot, but some. As you guys know I'm looking to run 5,10 & 15 yard boxes. As far as what the truck is going to sell for I guess we have to wait until the auction. There was a 2004 F650 (Roll-off)in Sacramento that sold for $4500 about 7 or 8 months ago. That one didn't need a engine. I was kicking myself for not going to the auction. Like I said before this has to be bought by a licensed dealer, lets hope all the licensed dealers are out doing xmas shopping on the day of the auction. I would love to get this for a few grand.

Gravel Rat
12-10-2009, 12:51 AM
I looked on Ritchies and they had the vin listed then I use Ford Fleet vin decoder. It doesn't give much info but it does say the gvw range is 19,000-26000.

Only in California they have that regulation any non running vehical can't be bought by the public at a Ritchies auction. Here you can buy dead non runners with no problems.

Joe Spinelli
12-10-2009, 11:10 AM
Yeah Tell me about it.. If I had a nickle for every time I heard "Only in California" I wouldn't have to go back in business, I could stay retired! I'm thinking there could be a positive side to it though, I know there are a lot less dealers then general public there so lets see if that helps keep the sale price low. Well, I guess we'll know in about a week or so.

Drew Gemma
12-10-2009, 05:43 PM
So I am building my own super lawn truck basically. Behind the cab we have a 4 long 6.5 high 7.5 wide aluminum dump bed. Then behind that I have a 12 long 8 wide 6.5 high dry van body. Inside we are going to put 2 walkers, turf tiger 36 hydro 2 snapper 21's 4 trimmers, 3 back pack blowers. so will the NQR / w5500 work?

johnnybravo8802
12-10-2009, 05:52 PM
So I am building my own super lawn truck basically. Behind the cab we have a 4 long 6.5 high 7.5 wide aluminum dump bed. Then behind that I have a 12 long 8 wide 6.5 high dry van body. Inside we are going to put 2 walkers, turf tiger 36 hydro 2 snapper 21's 4 trimmers, 3 back pack blowers. so will the NQR / w5500 work?
Yea, that's what kills me about the SLT-they act like it's some new innovation. He#@, I thought of that truck years before Billy Bass ever did-I just didn't have the connections or money to put it into play.:cry:

Drew Gemma
12-10-2009, 11:25 PM
I want to buy used so what year is better than others? Does having and engine brake really help. Is the 4sp tranny good enough or should I get a newer 6sp. Trying to narrow down a used truck to pick up. thanks guys sorry take thread over but this is where all the cab over talk is happening.

TomberLawn
12-12-2009, 01:13 AM
Spinelli,
Have you thought about a larger truck, like International 4300 or Freightliner FL70? There's a guy with a really nice company called Earth, Truf, and Wood (screen name is etwman) and they run 3 Freightliners. If I remember correctly, he said the Freightliners had operating costs comparable to a 550/5500 or NPR type truck. The bigger engines don't have to work as hard and other components of the truck last longer, like tires and brakes. You can get a van body truck pretty cheap, sell the body or keep it for storage, and put your lift on the back. Check out www.truckpaper.com

TomberLawn
12-12-2009, 02:41 PM
Found this little truck while looking around on truckpaper this afternoon.
F800 with 16ft debris box and Switch-n-Go system, $14,900 in San Jose, CA
http://www.truckpaper.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=1861977

Joe Spinelli
12-12-2009, 03:07 PM
This truck is going to be at Auction in a few days, I think this (or the Ford F650) will be the one.... What do you guys think of this truck? Thanks for all the insight guys. i have thought about going a lot of different ways.. I really think I need to get my feet wet before I dive in head first.

Gravel Rat
12-12-2009, 05:11 PM
I don't know what E195 stands for is that the 466E rated at 195hp ?

The International is better than the F-650 atleast there is more parts out there for a International.

I'am still thinking you should stick with a smaller shorter wheelbase truck. A truck like that International is no different than a tandem axle rolloff it is a b*tch to get into anywhere. If your planning on doing residential clean up work and want to get bins close to the house it will be tough to do so with a truck like that.

Most small jobs you want to drop the bin at the front door so the homeowner doesn't have to pack material a long distance.

I can't figure out why they would use a single axle truck with 22 foot rails you put a 30-40 yard bin no way the truck would carry it.

If I was going with a truck with a 22-24 foot rails it would be a tandem.

I do have a idea what kind of customer base your after and your bin length will be no more than 14 feet long.

There is a reason why those trucks are in the auction there is a very limited use for them.

Joe Spinelli
12-12-2009, 05:33 PM
Yesterday it said it was a DTA466, they changed it when they posted the pictures. I don't know why it was set up with a 22 foot hoist either, unless this was the delivery truck that was used to deliver empty containers. It's a 93 which I'm not that fond off but the hoist was put on in 2006. I spoke to the guys at amrep a while back and they don't work cheap, I'd say that hoist was at least $17,000 or $18,000 when it was put on 3 years ago. I will not have a choice about box length because I plan on buying used boxes but I would like to keep them around 12 feet long. The typical 10 yard box they run in California is a low-boy and is good for dirt & concrete but not for rubbish. Unless they change the laws this truck would have to be off the road by January 2014 according to C.A.R.B standards. That would give me just about 4 years to decided if business was worthy of buying a brand new truck. What's your take on how much this truck is going to go for, lets see if we think alike...

Gravel Rat
12-12-2009, 06:47 PM
The economy in California is a little different but I would guess that truck may go for no less than 15 grand. That truck would be a tough sell in B.C. because single axle rolloffs like that don't have the demand.

Joe Spinelli
12-12-2009, 06:55 PM
I Think it will go for between $10,000-$15,000 it's worth it because of the hoist. The truck itself is a 1993 and not worth that much but the hoist is. I got this one to look at and that ford that needs an engine. It's raining like crazy in Southern California today, I'm debating going over there to look at it today.

Joe Spinelli
12-13-2009, 09:53 PM
I want it, I want it, I want it!

Gravel Rat
12-13-2009, 10:01 PM
The truck looks good does it have in cab controls ?

You better hope nobody else has a hard on for the truck and starts bidding against you.

Been to many Ritchie Bros auctions it is fun just to sit in the stands and wave the bid book to pretend to buy something. You just have to watch you may end up with it :laugh:

I would go and get the keys for it and start it up and see how the engine runs. Old Internationals smoke pretty good when they are cold.

Joe Spinelli
12-13-2009, 10:24 PM
I can always count on some good advise from you old friend. Went over there today to take some pictures, I started it up and it turned right over. No smoke. Heading over there tomorrow or Tuesday with the mechanic from a second opinion. Has inside and outside controls, although the control on the inside is the "joystick" which I can't say I'm that fond off but I can work with it. I know all it takes is one bastard to jack the price up, we will just have to hope that doesn't happen. Has a "DTA 466" in it with just under 300,000 on it. We shall see on Friday.

P.Services
12-13-2009, 10:30 PM
this happens to be my latest obsession.....

i asked him what he wanted for it but i haven't heard back from yet, im gona say 40-50k

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250545200294&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

Gravel Rat
12-13-2009, 10:30 PM
It took me awhile to get used to the single joystick because I mainly used two sticks one for the reeving cylinder and the other stick for the rails.

johnnybravo8802
12-13-2009, 10:43 PM
Sort of changing the subject but, I think I may be leaning toward another box truck instead of a truck/open trailer combo. I really want a Dodge 4500 dump but I don't think I can swing that kind of cash. I really like the looks of the LCF's and have seen some awesome prices on some but everyone I talk to say they aren't that great of a truck. I keep getting steered back to the Isuzu. I've had one and loved it but the LCF's seem to be better priced. I've also had several tell me that an18'/20' with a 4' dovetail will never work with the swing of an Isuzu or an LCF. I had a 16'+4' and never had a problem. So many decisions and so confusing.:dizzy:

Joe Spinelli
12-13-2009, 10:50 PM
Now that you got to use each setup (dual controls and single joystick) which one do you prefer? My first truck only has outside controls (with throttle control) this one has outside controls but no throttle, guess I will have to keep a brick in the cab (lol) Personally I like outside controls better from dropping containers off. I like to look around 10 times and make sure there are no wires or anything else in the way, that's hard to do from inside the cab. I also like to climb on the containers to tarp them, these FNG's like to use the auto tarper. I like to climb up because it lets me see whats in the container, I charge $250.00 extra if there are any dead bodies in the dumpster. Pending the mechanics inspection, I would be ok with paying $10,000 for this truck. What do you think?

Gravel Rat
12-14-2009, 01:33 AM
I have never used a truck with outside controls but I never dropped a bin where the ground was smooth enough for it too rolloff nicely. It was always moving the truck forward as the bin slid off the rails. Rolloff trucks here don't have the rollers on the side of the rails I assume that makes the bin rolloff easier. Rolloff trucks have steel on steel so once you tilt up the rails it needs a little slack in the cable and a little wiggle with the truck and it starts to slide off.

After using the joystick you could get a bin pulled on a little quicker.

As for tarping it is easier to tarp the box and for what your doing. For most of the stuff that is hauled in bins here tarping is not necessary.

Have a set price on what you want to pay for the truck. When your at the auction you have a look to see how many people are looking at the truck. When it comes time to start bidding on the truck keep a ear on what the auctioneer and have a quick scan around who is flipping up a bid book.

Who knows you might not have anybody that is really interested. You know when you have somebody that is hot and heavy for the truck they keep topping what you bid.

Gravel Rat
12-14-2009, 01:41 AM
this happens to be my latest obsession.....

i asked him what he wanted for it but i haven't heard back from yet, im gona say 40-50k

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250545200294&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

It looks like a good truck just wonder why there seems to be rusting above the rear axle.

Wish the pictures were not fuzzy.

I would say that truck would go for 40 grand at most.

Joe Spinelli
12-14-2009, 11:28 AM
Picasso, try this link, it's a link to a website called asset-auctions, they deal with a lot of the national waste services (Waste management, Republic) as well as other people, they got a few roll-off trucks in your area. Stuff usually goes dirt cheap ($1000-$5000)
I'd be a bit reluctant to buy a truck from them without having a mechanic take a good look at it but you will be able to get it for a really good price.

http://www.asset-auctions.com/cgi-bin/mnlist.cgi?sallen257/category/ALL

P.Services
12-14-2009, 12:33 PM
I would have to say its rusting above the rear axle because there happens to be a 10 yard salter a few inches away. The rock salt coming off the tires acts like a media blaster and eats away at the paint in no time.
Posted via Mobile Device

P.Services
12-14-2009, 12:34 PM
The real problem with the truck is the red frame. I would paint the frame black and the cab green but one would never get all the little spots painted up around the engine and trans unless you did a total tear down.
Posted via Mobile Device

P.Services
12-15-2009, 01:42 AM
hey rat,

that truck has a 40,000 gvw. thats crazy high for a single axle and would leave me plenty of capacity. what cha think of it? and he wants 45k for it.

Gravel Rat
12-15-2009, 01:50 AM
You might not beable to license it for that much weight in your state most single axles here are maxed at 35,000lbs.

If you think its going to work for your needs go for it. The truck has a good engine low miles it seems like it a heavier spec'ed truck and its a good brand.

P.Services
12-15-2009, 01:54 AM
alot better buy then 30k for a used to death c7500 26k gvw juice brake truck ehh? that salter is worth 3k and the plow 4k.

i was on the edge of buying the c7500 and installing a 4k dollar v-plow on it and then looking for a salter. i was just worried about buying a chevy kodiak when the line is ending.

Joe Spinelli
12-15-2009, 11:34 PM
For Sale: 2006 Ford F650 Single Axle Roll Off Truck, Only Needs.. new engine, new transmission, new clutch, has electrical problems and other misc. problems. All for the low low price of $22,000. Call Today.

Drew Gemma
12-16-2009, 12:32 AM
i know what you guys do is different than what I do but you could never give me one of those Fords I would sell it asap! The 350 to 550 work trucks (not really) have killed my profit margin worse than a bad employee.

Gravel Rat
12-16-2009, 01:14 AM
The F Series Fords above the 550 are not that good. The last good Ford medium duty trucks were the Louisvilles. The L-8000 L-9000 LN LT LNT were all good series trucks.

Drew Gemma
12-16-2009, 01:48 AM
Why not an isuzu F series? I would love one but I think it may be overkill for my line of work. If that is possible.

Joe Spinelli
12-17-2009, 11:20 PM
Alright everybody, Tomorrow is the big day. I don't anticipate to much sleep tonight, Submit your bids on how much you think the truck will go for. I'll let you guys know tomorrow how much it sold for and if I'm the happy new owner :)
(1993 International 4900, dt466,300,000 miles)

Drew Gemma
12-18-2009, 12:16 AM
your dream my nightmare good luck!

Gravel Rat
12-18-2009, 12:49 AM
International trucks are okay. The only thing I would be worried about is the way the tilt cylinders hang low. You could have troubles getting stuck when it grounds out.

I will make sure I online bid and drive the price up a bit :laugh:

Joe Spinelli
12-18-2009, 10:05 PM
I got It! Bought the truck and a 2002 Ford F150 pick up truck.

P.Services
12-18-2009, 10:08 PM
How much! How much! Did you have to fight for it?
Posted via Mobile Device

Joe Spinelli
12-18-2009, 10:16 PM
It started out at 10,000 and went down to 2000 then worked its way back up to 10. I ended up getting it for 10,500. I also grabbed a ford f150 (2002) because they were going for $2,500 and I knew that was a good deal.

P.Services
12-18-2009, 11:46 PM
That's not a bad deal. How many miles on the 150?
Posted via Mobile Device

Gravel Rat
12-18-2009, 11:48 PM
You got a good deal :drinkup:

Joe Spinelli
12-18-2009, 11:53 PM
The ODO says 60,000 something or another. California law says they can't sell it (to the general public) unless the odo is working so either it works or no one reported that it doesn't work. Yeah, I'm happy with the deal I got, now I need some containers and it's time to start making some money.

willretire@40
03-08-2010, 12:50 AM
How is the new business going for you?

Joe Spinelli
03-08-2010, 08:55 PM
Thanks for asking, it's actually going pretty well. Just last week I bought another dumpster (my 4th) this one is a big 40 yard dumpster. I'm going to have 2 banners made up, 8x16 that say "dirt cheap dumpster rentals" and put them on the dumpster and park the truck (with the dumpster) in the home depot and Lowes parking lot on the weekends. In the meantime Craigslist has been working pretty well for me although everyone wants a bargain or something for nothing. Other then that it's been going well, I'm taking all the jobs I can get.. I hate to lose any jobs and I've haven't. How are you guys doing?

willretire@40
12-14-2012, 09:53 PM
How is business going?