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Green Industry Pro
11-29-2009, 11:30 PM
I think I have a good idea of what to look for but I havnt tried any of the brands first hand like you probably have.I think you could give me some important info to steer me in the right direction.I live in east texas so there are tons and tons of trees resulting in us bagging 95% of the time to pick up the leaves and pine needles.I want the best bagging mower I can find(easiest to empty bag/most vacuum/I dont want to have to go over the yard 3 times trying to pick up the debris).Since bagging is mostly all we use our 21s for it has to bag well.Mulching and discharging dont matter much.I have heard that ARIENS, LAWNBOY/TORO hi-vac, and a few others are good.Im considering the ARIENS CLASSIC and TORO HI-VAC BAGGER.

THANKS

GOD BLESS AMERICA :usflag::usflag::usflag:

madisonpressurewashing
11-30-2009, 12:04 AM
Honda top of the line hrx. hrc little heavy and cost more

timberbrook
11-30-2009, 04:11 AM
If bagging is truly a necessity for you go for the Snapper SPCP2160KWV
Hi-Vac Bagging Mower. Great engine with lots of torque. Great vacuum. Simple and durable drive system. No brainer. Check it out. Oh, and it is lightweight in comparison to most other commercial mowers. :clapping:

EastCoast
11-30-2009, 07:20 AM
I second the Honda HRX!

Tennesseepowerstroke
11-30-2009, 03:57 PM
If bagging is truly a necessity for you go for the Snapper SPCP2160KWV
Hi-Vac Bagging Mower. Great engine with lots of torque. Great vacuum. Simple and durable drive system. No brainer. Check it out. Oh, and it is lightweight in comparison to most other commercial mowers. :clapping:

Agreed. Simplicity and bagging ability can't be beat for the money.

Green Industry Pro
12-03-2009, 01:36 AM
Anyone else?What about ariens,toro,lawnboy?

carlsmower
12-03-2009, 03:18 AM
The Ariens bag great, but the drive sucks, it has a life of maybe a couple years. The drives seem to have gone down hill in the last few years. You may want to do a bit investigating, Exmark has a few new 21's coming out, gear drive, deep hi-vac aluminum deck, 9" wheels, .... looks great. Not a huge Toro fan, there super bagger has a crappy cut quality.

jbell36
12-03-2009, 09:58 AM
I don't like the honda's as a whole machine but if bagging is what you are looking for then I would say get the honda, as compared to our John Deere JX85's it bags much better (good vacuum) and chops the leaves up much better to fit more in one bag

93Chevy
12-03-2009, 10:04 AM
If bagging is truly a necessity for you go for the Snapper SPCP2160KWV
Hi-Vac Bagging Mower. Great engine with lots of torque. Great vacuum. Simple and durable drive system. No brainer. Check it out. Oh, and it is lightweight in comparison to most other commercial mowers. :clapping:

I agree with your opinion. I have one and it has awesome suction. The bag fills up fast with leaves, but the mower more than makes up for itself in its durability.

dishboy
12-03-2009, 10:41 AM
http://www.toro.com/professional/lce/wpm/hi%20vac/22189.html

Kennedy Landscaping
12-03-2009, 10:41 AM
I run Toro and Cub Cadet right now, my older Toro is amazing, the newer one not so much. The Cub Cadet is my primary one, but next one will be Honda. If you're looking for something cost effective but good quality I would go with a Cub Cadet. If price is no issue then go Honda. The only way I would go with Toro is if it were an older model.

turf and snow
12-03-2009, 01:06 PM
I use Ariens 21s. I would have to agree that the drive system is not that great 2 years tops, but if you get the commercial one it is gear driven and tough (super heavy though).
The vacuum is awesome on the ariens and the bag is big and easy to remove. Next year I am going to Toro commercial because they have a bulletproof driveline. I will keep my all my ariens with the leaf shredder kits (AWESOME) for spring and fall cleanup.

Green Industry Pro
12-04-2009, 01:03 PM
Awesome guys! Thanks so much for the responses.Ill try to go out to the shops and check those out.Ill also look on the net.Anyways if anyone else has more info or u guys have anything else i would like to hear whats on your mind.Thanks again, sincerely

Zachary Porowski-POROWSKI LAWN AND LANDSCAPE:usflag::usflag::usflag:

I can do all things through CHRIST who strengthens me.

Frierson
12-06-2009, 03:49 PM
Honda 21s all the way. You just cant beat the quadra cut and bagging of them. And the new ones the drive is effortless because it is controlled by your thumbs
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XLS
12-06-2009, 04:26 PM
husquvarna 7021 series push mowers from $275-$350 and you wont break them with the honda engines , it bags mulches and discharges .it can change over in 15 seconds or less. i think the honda's are over advertised arrogance at it best . good luck .

we have hv's with 700 hours of walking on them and no problems at all
so $350.00 /700hours = .50 per hour cost and still going .

greenerman
12-06-2009, 08:00 PM
Honda HRC 216 with an Accelerator catcher. It'll suck a golf ball up a 10 foot piece of garden hose!

Alan0354
12-07-2009, 02:21 AM
husquvarna 7021 series push mowers from $275-$350 and you wont break them with the honda engines , it bags mulches and discharges .it can change over in 15 seconds or less. i think the honda's are over advertised arrogance at it best . good luck .

we have hv's with 700 hours of walking on them and no problems at all
so $350.00 /700hours = .50 per hour cost and still going .

I was just wondering about the Husky 7021. I saw 2 in OSH hardware store. One with Honda GCV160 and the other is a front wheel drive with Kohler XT-7 low grade commercial engine. The wheels are all ball bearings, the deck is thicker than the Craftsman in the showroom. They sure look pretty good particularly for home owners.

I never have luck with Hondas, be it auto or lawn equipments, maybe is just me, we don't get along!!!:laugh: So I pretty much rule out Hondas. I am looking at Toro Heavy Duty model or going cheap with the Husky 7021 as soon as my crappy mower quit.

Is front wheel drive really that bad. I kind of like the Kohler XT-7 engine........As I said, me and Honda don't get along and really don't want the GCV engine.

XLS
12-07-2009, 02:46 AM
we have a few and they are fine, the husqvarnas are cut out in the front to help not drag the grass and cause extra resistance on the wheels that would cause them to spin .
we use ours on startup crews most lawns are small ,flat and dry but they work on hillsfine for the most part because you control the actual wheel speed like a hydro by letting off or applying real softly and assisting it in the climb to get it up to speed .
i like them because they are as we say idiot proof . full gas ,slide the choke , pull the cord,amd grab the self propell. the choke cuts itself off and there is no primming at all.

XLS
12-07-2009, 02:47 AM
sorry never used kohler's on push mowers

XLS
12-07-2009, 02:49 AM
frierson what is quadra cut .......is it like stacking blades ?? x-blades

Alan0354
12-07-2009, 04:39 AM
frierson what is quadra cut .......is it like stacking blades ?? x-blades

Thanks for the info.

I can't find a picture of the quadra blade. It is two blades stack on top and form a very narrow "X" shape.

XLS
12-07-2009, 10:19 AM
i think it is a standard thing to have the x blades idea , snapper has NINJA mulching blade that is on center blade that Y into 2 tips per blade at the ends.

we just get a longer grade 8 bolt and hold two blades at 90 degrees and tighten them up

packey
12-07-2009, 10:32 AM
I would agree with the snapper Hi vac with a kawi or honda. the only thing to watch for is the wet/damp grassa and pine straw will sometimes clog in the chute coming off the deck. Not really a big problem thourgh for such a good mower.

Roger
12-07-2009, 10:52 AM
I did an extensive search before the 2009 season, and ended up with a Honda 217HRX. I know others have commented. Here is a link to my thread on a review.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=268848

Now that the season is nearly over, it has covered about 1,100 lawns, probably been run close to the 800 service hours I expected. How close is it to collapse? I wish I knew! I think not that close, however.

Of all the choices I considered, I believe I made exactly the right choice. It has saved much time, and has been reasonably reliable, certainly much better than my former LawnBoy DuraForce. I had two significant problems -- ground drive speed selector cable broke (another thread that covers that repair, do a search), and a failure in the handlebars (which required replacing). The GCV engine and transmission have shown themselves to be solid for the heavy duty use. The Versa-Mow had widespread use. This mower mulched clippings and leaves better than anything else (I also have a Toro Proline hand mower). And, it bagged better than the Toro. It bagged as well as the LB with side bagger, but was far ahead in bagging over the Toro. Emptying the bag was the easiest of all three. I used two bags, sometimes wish I had three.

The Versa-Mow was useful in the quick and easy change from bag to mulch. The partial setting idea is a joke, so this machine was used either fully to bag, or fully to mulch. But, the on-the-go idea saved much time, and clippings in the bag.

I intend to write more as a season-end review soon, when the season is over -- as a follow to the initial review thread mentioned above.


Packey -- your comment about the Snapper, "... watch for is the wet/damp grass ... clog in the chute ..." is exactly why I did not buy a Snapper. I had experience in past years with Snapper, and your statement is why it sits in the shed now, and has for years. All the other comments about simple drive, relatively lightweight, etc are on target, but the bagging chute was the major hassle with this mower. The Honda NEVER did clog, all season, regardless of debris, wet, damp, or whatever. I spent far too many hours unclogging the Snapper chute, even in heavy cutting. I sure liked the bag, size and ease of dumping, but, ...

XLS
12-07-2009, 10:56 AM
at this point i have concluded that all push mowers are junk if you treat them like it, lol and it is about maintaining them that gives you the life you want from them . they are only as good as the guys using them !

Roger
12-07-2009, 11:04 AM
XLS, I agree with you to some extent. But, I think some units are just not prepared for 6-8 hours of constant use per day. I did everything I could with my LawnBoy DuraForce engine, and it was nothing but a headache (three short-blocks in four seasons). Its predecessor gave me several seasons from the same engine, ran well for years and years. Same care, but highly different results.

To add to my comments above about the Honda 217 HRX and the GCV engine (lowest quality engine of their line), it did well. But, to reinforce your point, oil was changed once per week, and refilled with Rotella 10W-30. I did give it care, and I think I've reaped the rewards of short maintenance cycles.

XLS
12-07-2009, 11:19 AM
ours as well are high hour units and they still look 90% new how they are cared for means alot but true there is good and bad in them all .

packey
12-07-2009, 11:31 AM
my issue with the honda is the deck used to be to light weight and got banged up to easy. I will not say small push mowers are junk if you only knew what my snappers had been through you would be impressed. I will not run a business without one.

Roger
12-07-2009, 12:10 PM
Packey ... I appreciate your concern for lightweight decks. That was a *prime* criteria for finding a new hand mower. Some who followed my threads in asking questions about a new machine remember I was looking for the same 85# mower of my LawnBoy. Finding none (excepting the new LB commercial mower, now painted red,under the Toro label -- but finding no buyers), my choices were limited.

The Honda 216 commercial mower was simply too heavy, about 120#. It may have been very durable, but handling the heavy mower for those of us in our late 60s was not appealing. The new Toro was eliminated for this reason too (as well as Eastman, Hustler, ...).

The Snapper steel deck, with Honda GXV was a candidate. But, I heard on LS, plus a couple of dealers -- stay away from that combination, go with the Kaw engine instead. The Kaw added about 10#, taking it out of the "light" range. Also, the bagging chute was a real concern.

The Honda 217 HRX is not as light as I wanted, but I was left with no choice. I think it is about 95#. But, as I posted in other threads, weight is not the only factor in considering handling. There is a much greater difference between the 85# LB and the 95# Honda than the 10# of weight. The Honda is more cumbersome in handling. Even my Toro Proline with 2 cycle Sizuki (about 110#) is easier to handle. The reasons, in my opinion, is the Toro using finger-tip control, which is not possible with the Honda. The Honda requires full hand-control.

This is one feature of the Snapper -- great, simple, single lever on the handle for ground drive. That is so smart! No, it isn't symmetrical, which makes some disadvantage. But, the simple movements, easy at hand, is very easy.

Alan0354
12-07-2009, 01:29 PM
How come you rule out Toro? The Commercial model is only about 90lbs. Even the Heavy Duty model without BBC is spec 105lbs if I remember correctly. I am concern about the weight also.

STIHL GUY
12-07-2009, 10:54 PM
i personally like the toro 21''s but i do not bag unless the grass is really tall and wet. when it is like this the toro does pretty well

Frierson
12-08-2009, 01:20 PM
frierson what is quadra cut .......is it like stacking blades ?? x-blades

This is the definition given from Honda's press release....
The twin-blade Honda QuadraCut System(TM) uses four cutting surfaces to cut grass into tiny pieces that quickly decompose and add nutrients to a lawn. This special design is offered only by Honda. The QuadraCut System also provides for superior bagging: finer clippings take up less volume, so the bag fills up less often.

XLS
12-08-2009, 01:24 PM
have you used the quadraCut ??????? its just stacking blades the way i see it right.?

Gunnels Grounds & More
12-08-2009, 05:33 PM
I have A Honda with this set up. It definitely cuts grass into finner pieces and is nice for mulching leaves.

Roger
12-08-2009, 11:20 PM
XLS, here are a couple of pics of the quad-cut setup. This is from my 217HRX, but I think the 216 is the same blade arrangement. Note that one blade is shorter, and shaped much differently than the other.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showpost.php?p=2990073&postcount=7

XLS
12-09-2009, 12:01 AM
those look alot like the snapper ninja blade . i priced a new toy , we are now considering as our setups its a casterwheel husquvarna with bade clutch .

it is a hell of a machine dealer said he would do 5 years on the deck ,frame and 2 on the engine . we may consider this over our standerd sp units/ $ 459.00 after tax

CWB
12-09-2009, 08:52 AM
What about the Exmark Metro 26? Good... Bad.... any comments?

TreeClimber57
12-09-2009, 08:57 AM
What about the Exmark Metro 26? Good... Bad.... any comments?

The eXmark WBs are all now have in our lineup.. we use eXmark and Walker for our bigger mowers. As of yet have never had any serious issues with any of the Metro's, they do get regular service in shop. But they just keep running for the guys..

We had one Honda last year and I got rid of it and replaced with another eXmark this past spring. (I am about to look at the eXmark stand on units.. may add one of these and see how we like it)

CWB
12-09-2009, 09:22 AM
Thanks! Is there any comments on buying a Exmark Metro 26 over any other exmark, honda, toro, snapper, husqvarna, etc...?

TaketheMoneyandRun
12-09-2009, 09:34 AM
Is a 32" Belt drive a better alternative to say a 26"? Whats the typical cost of a 32"?

Frierson
12-15-2009, 08:38 PM
have you used the quadraCut ??????? its just stacking blades the way i see it right.?

Yes, i have used them. I currently have two right now

expilot
12-15-2009, 08:57 PM
I've got a couple Husqvarna 21's. They have a Honda engine, bag well, and have a variable speed drive.

XLS
12-15-2009, 09:51 PM
frierson ........... does that setup do better then taking 2 gators and bolting them at 90 degrees of the other one.????