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View Full Version : Screamin green!!!! anyone have some testimonials!


grassman177
12-02-2009, 06:45 PM
i have talked to Barry with tech terra , a sponsor here on LS.

he has a product called screamin green. a mulit source N fertilizer inlcuding OM.

this is very interesting as like a hybrid of fert- synthetic and organic.

i was wondering who on here would share their experiences with this fertilizer, being ease of spreading, growth of grass, color and longevity of the fert.

i am also looking at adding some compost tea/ bacteria and fungi inoculations in the summer instead of a dry fert. any comments on this practice as well, experiences welcome

sweetjetskier
12-02-2009, 07:54 PM
We have used screaming green,the wholeshabang,and 4-3-1 and all work well to very well.

They may be a little dusty to some not used to "organic"based ferts, but with the results that are obtained its not a big deal at all.

I have local small fert companies always asking why my lawns are so dark and seem to do better with drought conditions.

I don't let them know my secrets though.

I have not tried the pre emergent from them yet, I will be using some in the spring.

The only thing that SCU users will not like is that is not too easy to see coming out of the spreader being so dark in color.

Just my 2 cents
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grassman177
12-02-2009, 08:09 PM
great info, thanks. do u use them at spefic times of the year(screamin, shabang etc)

please, more from anyone!!!!

i want as much info as possible from end users!

brizine
12-02-2009, 08:28 PM
I would be interested in hearing responses from anyone who has used it on warm season turf(Bermuda and zoysia).

sweetjetskier
12-02-2009, 08:47 PM
I am in the northeast so how and when I use are open to interpretation.

I will use the wholeshabang or 4-3-1 when aerating and seeding to add organic material, depends on which I have on hand.

The whole shabang has amonium sulfate for extra greening, which is nice, like MESA, to a degree.

Screaming green can be used whenever in my opinion, you can vary your rates to get the results you are looking for.

The top growth does seem to be less compared to SCU, but it there are tons of variables that can come into play, weather,temps, grtass types, mowing schedules,soil types,etc
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turf hokie
12-02-2009, 09:00 PM
we use it and love it, truck load user so we get dimension put on the screamin green in the spring. I actually use it all year long.

Lawns show a big difference pretty quickly when you switch them from SCU or even mesa products. They hold up WAY better in drought conditions, and I can tell you the lawns that I winterized with it in October are OUTSTANDING right now, still deep dark green and the blue grasses are holding color better than lawns that were treated with other products.

Seetjetskier gave a pretty good idea of what is like. Right down to the adjustment you will need to make as far as seeing it come out of the machine.

I will add that I run it in all equipment, chest spreader, push spreader, perma green and z-spray and they all handle it well.

I dont have any input on the teas as we have not really used them yet, but will be incorporating them in our programs for the upcoming year.

We are moving more and more toward organics but keeping all the tools in our box as we continue learning and getting used to these products we take out the tools we no longer need out of the box and do away with them.

Bryan

Snowy66
12-02-2009, 09:02 PM
Hey Grassman. I used Nutrients Plus Screamin Green for my round 5 and 6. The grass was a nice color after round 5 but it's a little early to tell on round 6. It has some slow release fert as well as some that I couldn't see a couple days after I applied it. I could still see a small amount of granules when I checked a couple properties after 6 weeks.
Barry was a big help in answering all my questions and never once told me what I HAD to do. He just helped me to understand the benefits of organics and OM.
I am going to try their Preem next year and continue the Screamin Green also.
I also had a new property that had a new house and lots of bare ground. I used Screamin Green and also sprayed ICT's Hydroseed product on the seed I spread. Man, that seed jumped up!
Both Bill @ ICT and Barry @ Tech Terra were great to work with and very patient with me. They are going to get my business from now on.
BTW, they have a plant about three hours south of you guys in El Dorado by Wichita. Delivery was $.85 per bag to Oak Grove. If you have a trailer you might just drive down there.

grassman177
12-02-2009, 11:44 PM
i would rather pay shipping i think, we would have to go down with three trucks and trailers maxed out to get enough for one round, easier to have it brought to us on demand.

grassman177
12-02-2009, 11:45 PM
the responses were all i had hoped so far and appreciate you all on this site.

any guys in the Midwest care to share some about these products and your experiences!?

jbturf
12-03-2009, 12:15 AM
ive been happy with results using whole shabang and green marvel,
very nice color response--though as others have mentioned
it is tuff to see the product while spreading compared to other conventional ferts,
and it gums up the spreader mechanism on my PG after a few lawns

i am looking into their screaming green with dimension for the spring

jbturf
12-03-2009, 07:08 PM
question for you turf hokie,
i know ive talked with u b4 and you have run the
16-2-3 with dimension .15---i think
any idea what you will use in 2010?
i was told nutrients plus is offering .125 and .17 dimension blends
and no more .15
seems odd they dropped that

ive gotta crunch some #'s still to see which i should be pricing out

turf hokie
12-03-2009, 07:39 PM
question for you turf hokie,
i know ive talked with u b4 and you have run the
16-2-3 with dimension .15---i think
any idea what you will use in 2010?
i was told nutrients plus is offering .125 and .17 dimension blends
and no more .15
seems odd they dropped that

ive gotta crunch some #'s still to see which i should be pricing out

Too busy with Christmas lights right now. I have not spoken to Barry other than to say we need to talk:dizzy:

I will be going over my early order options in about 10-14 days. If the .15 is not available I might go with the .17 and not do a split app which I was not planning on anyway. I want to cut out as many inputs as I can from the program, make more money that way.

Basically, I have no idea yet....sorry

grassman177
12-03-2009, 11:25 PM
hokie, fyi, your gallery on your website does not let you click and enlarge any photos.

turf hokie
12-04-2009, 07:41 AM
hokie, fyi, your gallery on your website does not let you click and enlarge any photos.

I know, it has been on my to do list for a while. Hopefully, I will be working on updating the site over the next couple of weeks. It also has repeated pics that should have been switched out by now as well.

Thanks for visiting!!!

EastCoast
12-04-2009, 08:06 AM
Anyone know were to purchase Screamin' Green on Long Island for residential ( homeowner) use?
Posted via Mobile Device

jbturf
12-04-2009, 09:15 AM
ok some rough # punching
last yr i used a 24%N blend 65%pscu .15% dimension
at 12k/ bag = .00625#ai/k at 14k/bag = .00535 #ai/k

with the new NP blend offered
16%N blend 60% slow .125% dimension
at 10k/ bag = .00625# ai/k at 12k/bag = .0052 #ai/k

B-Easy
12-04-2009, 10:56 AM
TT Barry yesterday. What rate are you putting these products (Screamin' Green & Whole Shabang) down at? Don't understand how it could be hard to see coming out of the spreader if your putting it down at the rates I was told. Just curious if you guys were backing it off a little.

sweetjetskier
12-04-2009, 11:13 AM
The rates of these products will depend on how much organic matter you want/need to apply, not how N you need to apply.

We generally use the recommended rates, but if we want to bump up OM, we will apply a heavier rate.

As to being harder to see, esp whole shabang,4-3-1, etc they are dark in color.

Open a package of hot chocalate and pretty close to the color of the fert.

You don't hear it coming off the spreader impellar either, it takes some time to get used to this in my opinion, but with the results you acheive, its worth it.
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grassman177
12-04-2009, 12:19 PM
nice, yeah if you have ever spread talstar ez, same thing, cant see it come out of the spreader at all. it looks like hot chocolate too!

grassman177
12-04-2009, 12:20 PM
i think the rateof app on screamin green is 3-5 lbs per K

jbturf
12-05-2009, 10:52 AM
ok some rough # punching
last yr i used a 24%N blend 65%pscu .15% dimension
at 12k/ bag = .00625#ai/k at 14k/bag = .00535 #ai/k

with the new NP blend offered
16%N blend 60% slow .125% dimension
at 10k/ bag = .00625# ai/k at 12k/bag = .0052 #ai/k

ok now some $$ # crunching
--(use rate as close to recommended as possible while still comparing the same ammount of ai--i dont have a lablel for NP yet)
last years (spring 09) product
cost per / K (12k/bag) = 1.72

NP Blend -current pricing i recieved
cost per / K (10k/bag) = 2.27

so to treat my 8.5 mil sq ft will cost me 4675 more than last year
not the direction i want to go, considering i hear fert prices are lower now than last year

is my math right?
any one else got any pricing yet? up or down?
thanks

LIBERTYLANDSCAPING
12-05-2009, 01:00 PM
ok now some $$ # crunching
--(use rate as close to recommended as possible while still comparing the same ammount of ai--i dont have a lablel for NP yet)
last years (spring 09) product
cost per / K (12k/bag) = 1.72

NP Blend -current pricing i recieved
cost per / K (10k/bag) = 2.27

so to treat my 8.5 mil sq ft will cost me 4675 more than last year
not the direction i want to go, considering i hear fert prices are lower now than last year

is my math right?
any one else got any pricing yet? up or down?
thanks

Do they offer it with Dimenion? My NP pricing only shows it with Cavalcade .37% AI which is Barricade... Mine shows $18.50 bag=12,500 sq. ft./bag =$1.48/k

Of course, less than truckload quantities would be more costly......

jbturf
12-05-2009, 01:32 PM
yah, they do offer dimension, you gotta call for pricing though,
i was qouted for truckload prices
they must be getting bent over on the dimension- im guessing?

but i gotta get some more pricing still, b4 i make final decision
i was told by jdl- that there cost on dow products has gone down,
so expect to see it on my end as well

grassman177
12-05-2009, 05:05 PM
from my usual supplier i was quoted 16.50 per bag of the normal 15-3-5 with .375 barricade that i have always used that is NOT NP. also, a 16-0-12ish with the same barricade but 43%MESA for 18.50 per bag. i am interested to see what Barry can offer me. i have to check my emial again for the info from him

jbturf
12-05-2009, 06:49 PM
from my usual supplier i was quoted 16.50 per bag of the normal 15-3-5 with .375 barricade that i have always used that is NOT NP. also, a 16-0-12ish with the same barricade but 43%MESA for 18.50 per bag. i am interested to see what Barry can offer me. i have to check my emial again for the info from him

16-0-12 43%mesa .375 barricade
sound like a very nice blend for the price
potash still seems to be pricey
do you have a label for that product?
have you used mesa products b4?

grassman177
12-05-2009, 09:37 PM
yeah, the mesa is great. we switched to a mesa product this year for our fert and grub , it was close to the same N as the regular slow release we used, but this year it did not grow as bad and had a nice steady green. i dont have a label, i have never used this mesa with barricade. it is new to me but have confidence in it being a great product.

robertsturf
12-06-2009, 11:40 AM
Gassman that's what we have been using on our lawns for years now. Mesa w/ Barricade. Big difference in color and growth patterns. Last year we used SCU w/ Barricade from jdl, what a difference!! More flushing of growth, granted we had record rainfalls, but this year back to Mesa, if the price compares.

grassman177
12-06-2009, 05:52 PM
yeah, i liked the mesa alot. i want to incorporate more orgainc materials into my fert program but have to at the same price for now, and that is hard to find. that is why i want as many testimonials for the nutrients plus brand as i can get before i finalize my program for next year.

anyone else used the nutrients plus ferts of any kind?

sweetjetskier
12-06-2009, 06:54 PM
If you are looking at comparing organic based ferts and can find it, we had loved a product from Biobasics, 10-1-10 with poultry manure, humates, molasses,nutralene, iron and others.

Spread nice, dusty like most oragnic based tend to be, excellant color results, cost was not not all that much more than SCU per bag, but cost per 1000k was higher with more material needed.

The distibutor we used closed up a while back and no local guys have it.

Just another possible option for everyone.
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Turf Dawg
12-06-2009, 09:40 PM
Can you buy Screamin green some place like JDL/Lesco or Horizon or do you have to order it?

CHARLES CUE
12-06-2009, 10:12 PM
Can you buy Screamin green some place like JDL/Lesco or Horizon or do you have to order it?

You have to order it from barry at techterra organics there a sponser on here do seach or look in the organic foram
Charles Cue

grassman177
12-07-2009, 12:03 AM
i dont think you have to order it from him, he is a rep. but might as well, he is a swell guy on here and helpful

Rayholio
12-14-2009, 12:00 AM
I've looked into this.. want to try it.. only need 4 pallets for a round though.. Shipping is murder.

LIBERTYLANDSCAPING
12-14-2009, 12:09 AM
I spoke w/ my local rep as well & am excited about what the results might be, but to skeptical to take a full 22 pallets-And I received an email last week that showed the price going up.

I didn't get a concrete price for less than a full truckload pricing, but it sounded like another $4+ per bag:cry:

phasthound
12-14-2009, 09:45 AM
[QUOTE=LIBERTYLANDSCAPING;3319576]I spoke w/ my local rep as well & am excited about what the results might be, but to skeptical to take a full 22 pallets-And I received an email last week that showed the price going up.
QUOTE]

Expected price increases are due to urea being on the rise again. It's up $60/ton & we expect it to continue to rise into the spring. This would affect all fertilizers, not just Nutrients PLUS. In fact, since Nutrients PLUS fertility programs provide the same green with less N, our prices are not as volatile as synthetic ferts.

LIBERTYLANDSCAPING
12-14-2009, 10:46 AM
[QUOTE=LIBERTYLANDSCAPING;3319576]I spoke w/ my local rep as well & am excited about what the results might be, but to skeptical to take a full 22 pallets-And I received an email last week that showed the price going up.
QUOTE]

Expected price increases are due to urea being on the rise again. It's up $60/ton & we expect it to continue to rise into the spring. This would affect all fertilizers, not just Nutrients PLUS. In fact, since Nutrients PLUS fertility programs provide the same green with less N, our prices are not as volatile as synthetic ferts.

Oh, I am well aware of the Urea market. The higher prices were just one more mark against it in making a decision.....

grassman177
12-14-2009, 11:02 AM
i am trying to get screamin green to work into my program i have now, i think it will work well and improve my turf at a competitive rice on one the less, but all the other products are more expensive than my program and pricing structure will allow.

i am thinking highly of offering a natural fert option for more money to my customers, any of you do this?? i am not talking no pesticides, just less and only organic ferts!

LIBERTYLANDSCAPING
12-14-2009, 11:23 AM
Since Screamin Green has synthetic fert, that product wouldn't qualify for full organic I guess... I am interested in performance-I could care less if it is synthetic. If Screamin Green would do well with my newer lawns on sandy soil, that is great, but if Mesa would do just as well, I'm all for it-and it's easier to get:usflag:

Rayholio
12-14-2009, 11:49 AM
The 'natural' option is something that no one would pay for in my market.. I've conducted surveys asking that very question.. People say that they are 'concerned' about enviormental effects of lawn care, Then they say that they are unreceptive to a price increase based on making services enviormentally sustainable.

So there ya have it.. If I can get better results for smaller $ then I'll go organics in a heart beat.. otherwise the customers have spoken.. and they are my boss.

mdlwn1
12-14-2009, 01:47 PM
Sucks having to read through 4 pages only to find out that no one answered the op. Turfhokie came close, but syaing your kbg is greener is far short of a practical comparison or meaningfull info. This was a late season for kbg..mine looked fantastic and STILL DOES using only sythetics. Anyone actually have some kind of REAL comparison?

turf hokie
12-14-2009, 07:02 PM
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=257806

MDLawn

See the above link for a side by side comparison pic, as well as a very good discussion on the topic.

Hope this helps, let me know if there are more questions about my experiences.

Bryan

grassman177
12-14-2009, 08:59 PM
hey hokie, thanks man. you used this for 2009? so you expereinced good growth pattern void of spikes?? and did resistance hold up and do you think the OM is the reason? how was the green overall

turf hokie
12-15-2009, 07:16 AM
Used it in 09 again pic is from 08

No spikes in growth, lots of rain though, which on Tall Fescue this year the grass just kept growing. We cut back on the N and it held its color.

Most of the the turf we use the NP product on is cut taller, usually at 4" so this helps tremendously as well.

No scientific data to back up what I saw but I can tell you that IMHO by adding OM, the roots are healthy thus the stand of turf in a lot of areas began to fill in and become thicker without adding any seed.

I am telling you guys, I have lawns that we put out the same amount N from sources including scu, mesa and NP, the NP lawns held color longer and always seem to be the ones with a better disease resistance.

Honestly, I fear the day my competitors start using this product, it is, I feel, a bit of an edge we have over the other guys right now.

I have an account that we service almost 250 lawns for, we used the NP in 08, and tried to save everyone money in 09 "due to the economy" and after the first round we went back to the NP. Why? my friends customers wanted to know what we were doing different the lawns just werent the same as last year, not green enough etc. We switched back to the NP and no more problems.

mdlwn1
12-15-2009, 10:47 AM
Much thanks.....

grassman177
12-15-2009, 11:44 AM
great, thanks. i will be trying t use it for a couple rounds at least for 2010.

americanlawn
12-15-2009, 09:30 PM
Tried both during the past two years. We treat nearly 3000 accounts. Spose that might be a large enough test? PM me if you want the results that we saw, cuz I ain't gunna badmouth lawnsite.com members in public. Unless they criticize my voting rights like phasthound did. Hope this is fair for all. I always reply to PM's on this site. Thanks. :usflag:

The 'natural' option is something that no one would pay for in my market.. I've conducted surveys asking that very question.. People say that they are 'concerned' about enviormental effects of lawn care, Then they say that they are unreceptive to a price increase based on making services enviormentally sustainable.

So there ya have it.. If I can get better results for smaller $ then I'll go organics in a heart beat.. otherwise the customers have spoken.. and they are my boss.

turf hokie
12-15-2009, 09:37 PM
Tried both during the past two years. We treat nearly 3000 accounts. Spose that might be a large enough test? PM me if you want the results that we saw, cuz I ain't gunna badmouth lawnsite.com members in public. Unless they criticize my voting rights like phasthound did. Hope this is fair for all. I always reply to PM's on this site. Thanks. :usflag:

Tried both what???

We're not asking you to give an opinion on a member:hammerhead:

We're asking for opinions on a product.

LIBERTYLANDSCAPING
12-15-2009, 10:49 PM
Tried both during the past two years. We treat nearly 3000 accounts. Spose that might be a large enough test? PM me if you want the results that we saw, cuz I ain't gunna badmouth lawnsite.com members in public. Unless they criticize my voting rights like phasthound did. Hope this is fair for all. I always reply to PM's on this site. Thanks. :usflag:

I understand what you're saying, but there are other people you can buy NP products from-Barry hasn't got the corner on the market.... So you wern't happy with results? I've been told this by several others already:confused:

grassman177
12-15-2009, 11:31 PM
more info liberty landscaping!!! what have you been told and is it reliable and what were the specifics of the so called users who weren't happy, what product used etc!? thanks

ICT Bill
12-15-2009, 11:48 PM
It is important to be specific when talking about this stuff. Was it a 16-2-3 or a 5-8-5 or another, was it the weed control or the long term green up, they did not like the way it spread????

too many variables to know what you are saying
It is understandable if it did not work for you but why? There are many that stand behind "their program" because it works for them
We have been working closely with the NP product and Barry for over 2 years and I have never heard an issue

phasthound
12-16-2009, 12:06 AM
Tried both during the past two years. We treat nearly 3000 accounts. Spose that might be a large enough test? PM me if you want the results that we saw, cuz I ain't gunna badmouth lawnsite.com members in public. Unless they criticize my voting rights like phasthound did. Hope this is fair for all. I always reply to PM's on this site. Thanks. :usflag:

Larry,
What on earth are you talking about?? I have never criticized your voting rights! Even if I did what does that have to do with fertilizer? Leave politics out of this for God's sake.

turf hokie
12-16-2009, 08:08 AM
Larry and Liberty,

Throwing out the statements that you have is grade school. This is an open forum for both substantiated pros and cons.

If you have had a less than acceptable experience then you must let us know. Any and all input is needed for some to make a proper decision.

Larry, I dont give a rat's arse if someone insulted your voting rights, that my friend is the beauty of having them, grow up.

Liberty, your playing telephone and to much gets lost in translation, so and so said, again I dont care, give us specifics or keep it out of the game.

Someone that tried 1 or 2 bags once does not qualify as a good resource on any product. Let us know what product, what situation used in, at what rate, etc.

So far I am beginning to sound like a salesman for the product. I posted pics and some solid information. Anybody else have something, good or bad besides a wasted opinion with nothing behind it?

grassman177
12-16-2009, 05:02 PM
i did start this thread to get some real insight from guys who have tried the screamin green specifically, and want to know info like what turf hokie as given us all, and if you have used another product, please differentiate that information. thanks and lets keep the discussion gong about these ferts.

LIBERTYLANDSCAPING
12-16-2009, 06:00 PM
Larry and Liberty,

Throwing out the statements that you have is grade school. This is an open forum for both substantiated pros and cons.

If you have had a less than acceptable experience then you must let us know. Any and all input is needed for some to make a proper decision.

Larry, I dont give a rat's arse if someone insulted your voting rights, that my friend is the beauty of having them, grow up.

Liberty, your playing telephone and to much gets lost in translation, so and so said, again I dont care, give us specifics or keep it out of the game.

Someone that tried 1 or 2 bags once does not qualify as a good resource on any product. Let us know what product, what situation used in, at what rate, etc.

So far I am beginning to sound like a salesman for the product. I posted pics and some solid information. Anybody else have something, good or bad besides a wasted opinion with nothing behind it?

Turfhokie-You're 100% right. I shouldn't have commented on it. I didn't personally use these products, just was told about them. The one guy is a local competitor-so who knows if he is telling the truth-As you said, you would hate to see the competition start using it:laugh: I didn't mean to imply anything negative about the product.

With Urea, SCU & ammonium sulfate in screaming green, it would have to work OK.

On the Barry comment, I was mearly telling Larry that NP products can be purchased through another rep, if he has an issue with Barry, not the NP products.


*trucewhiteflag*

turf hokie
12-16-2009, 06:08 PM
Turfhokie-You're 100% right. I shouldn't have commented on it. I didn't personally use these products, just was told about them. The one guy is a local competitor-so who knows if he is telling the truth-As you said, you would hate to see the competition start using it:laugh: I didn't mean to imply anything negative about the product.

With Urea, SCU & ammonium sulfate in screaming green, it would have to work OK.

On the Barry comment, I was mearly telling Larry that NP products can be purchased through another rep, if he has an issue with Barry, not the NP products.


*trucewhiteflag*

Not a problem. Thank you for the response.

phasthound
12-16-2009, 06:17 PM
I called Larry today clear up any misunderstandings between us.
We had misinterpreted what the other was posting regarding Obama & voting rights. He thought I was blasting him for not voting for Obama. I was just upset that he was calling him Osama.

The Internet is a great communication tool, but nothing beats talking one on one with eachother.

americanlawn
12-16-2009, 06:21 PM
We used both Screamin Green (4 lbs per K) & 34-0-5 XCU (3 lbs per K) in early fall. Results with both products was very nice. The Screamin Green granules were mostly brownish grey so they don't stick out like a sore thumb on concrete compared to XCU (light bluish green).
Talked to Barry today & got round one prices (Cavalcade). He told me it would most likely ship out of Kansas....that helps keep shipping costs down for us cuz we're only a mile off I-35.
BTW the only person we would buy TechTerra products from is Barry. :usflag:He's a proven (trusted) friend who has never let us down.......even though our political views may differ sometimes. :laugh:

turf hokie
12-16-2009, 06:58 PM
Perfect, who has the marshmallows and graham crackers, gonna cook em up and sing songs around the campfire now that we are all friends again.:waving:

americanlawn
12-16-2009, 07:32 PM
Goin' to Fareway grocery store right now. :laugh::waving:

phasthound
12-16-2009, 09:23 PM
Perfect, who has the marshmallows and graham crackers, gonna cook em up and sing songs around the campfire now that we are all friends again.:waving:

Life is grand! :)

quiet
12-16-2009, 10:23 PM
Awww. Now that's nice. I almost thought the moderators would have to move this thread to the Organic forum!

grassman177
12-17-2009, 12:23 AM
Life is grand! :)

now you are talking, reminds me of boy scouts in the wilds of the earth

grassman177
12-17-2009, 12:24 AM
good to know american lawn care . looking forward to ironing out some details.

phasthound
12-17-2009, 08:36 AM
Liberty,
your Nutrients PLUS rep will be contacting you soon with LTL pricing.

LIBERTYLANDSCAPING
12-17-2009, 09:46 AM
Liberty,
your Nutrients PLUS rep will be contacting you soon with LTL pricing.

Got it last night:)

Looks like $4+/ bag additional for less than a full truckload of 22 pallets. (at least to Indiana):cry:

I may look for some other companies local to split a full truckload with. I hate to pay $160+ additional per pallet for delivery....

phasthound
12-17-2009, 10:07 AM
Got it last night:)

Looks like $4+/ bag additional for less than a full truckload of 22 pallets. (at least to Indiana):cry:

I may look for some other companies local to split a full truckload with. I hate to pay $160+ additional per pallet for delivery....

That's a good strategy, we do that a lot.

B-Easy
12-17-2009, 12:33 PM
Questions... If you continue to apply herbicides does that not inhibit/kill the micro-organisms present in the organic matter which we are trying to establish in the turf by using this product? If this is true, would timing the use of fertilizers containing organic matter during rounds when we would only spot spray increase the effectiveness of the OM? What about pre emergent? Will the presence of this "barrier" stifle the organic matter? Thinking of using NP's 6-2-4 in the spring & early summer (R2 & R3). May do a split app w/ the pre emergent this year which would be R3.

Marcos
12-17-2009, 01:29 PM
The 'natural' option is something that no one would pay for in my market.. I've conducted surveys asking that very question.. People say that they are 'concerned' about enviormental effects of lawn care, Then they say that they are unreceptive to a price increase based on making services enviormentally sustainable.

So there ya have it.. If I can get better results for smaller $ then I'll go organics in a heart beat.. otherwise the customers have spoken.. and they are my boss.

If you have your customer survey worded anything like this post, then I can see exactly why your customers have been "unreceptive". :dizzy:
It's more than obvious that you're flagrantly bias toward the use of chemicals & generally against "natural options".
Next time, hire the services of an independent surveying firm before you post such an idiotic conclusion on here.

phasthound
12-17-2009, 02:11 PM
Questions... If you continue to apply herbicides does that not inhibit/kill the micro-organisms present in the organic matter which we are trying to establish in the turf by using this product? If this is true, would timing the use of fertilizers containing organic matter during rounds when we would only spot spray increase the effectiveness of the OM? What about pre emergent? Will the presence of this "barrier" stifle the organic matter? Thinking of using NP's 6-2-4 in the spring & early summer (R2 & R3). May do a split app w/ the pre emergent this year which would be R3.

I'm not aware of any studies showing the effects of herbicides on soil microbes. Maybe Kiril does?
That being said, we have not seen anything in the field that points to decreased results due to pre-emergent. We always urge that if you decide to use post emergent just spot treat as needed. And the best defense against weeds is a thick healthy lawn.

Marcos
12-17-2009, 02:11 PM
Questions... If you continue to apply herbicides does that not inhibit/kill the micro-organisms present in the organic matter which we are trying to establish in the turf by using this product? If this is true, would timing the use of fertilizers containing organic matter during rounds when we would only spot spray increase the effectiveness of the OM? What about pre emergent? Will the presence of this "barrier" stifle the organic matter? Thinking of using NP's 6-2-4 in the spring & early summer (R2 & R3). May do a split app w/ the pre emergent this year which would be R3.

Continue using herbicides if you have to, but try to limit it as much as possible to non 2,4-d formulations, and work toward a goal of keeping it all IPM (backpacks & hand tanks) only.

You're probably thinking:
'Wow....how can this be done'!:confused:

Job #1 on your list should ALWAYS be increasing &/or maintaining turf density.
A thick healthy lawn will crowd out most weeds before they get a chance to even rear their ugly heads; the key to it all is PERSISTENCE by both you & the customer in terms of proper organic fertilization, mowing practices, edging practices & irrigation.
Some perennially repeat weedy areas in turf may actually be in need of renovation to a certain extent to increase turf density. It's up to YOU to illustrate this problem to your customer, describe/show them the potential solution, and then sell it! :waving:
Try to keep the customer INVOLVED in the progression/successes in their own lawns. Usually, consumers love to be 'part of a team'.
_______________________

Regarding pre-emergents...
The precedent that they create a 'chemical barrier' in the soil is largely a myth brought about thru the years by marketing geniuses like Scotts & Chemlawn, who no doubt were looking for an easy mind's eye picture to paint.
There is indeed a chemical half-life in the soil, but not necessarily is it laid down in 'barrier' form.

Putting pre-emergents in perspective with turf that's dense enough to effectively choke out (most) weeds on its own:
Why would you really need to use it at all? :)

One place to need pre-emergent: Perimeter edges.
These are places of high stress, high foot / vehicle traffic & higher soil temperature.
We'll use either Dimension or corn gluten meal along all hard edge perimeters after they've been thoroughly edged in the spring.
Then, as the season progresses we'll work with the customer in somewhat of a training mode to talk about mowing, irrigation, and try to prevent nonsense such as weed eater 'scalping' of turf to soil level :wall, which is the absolute harbinger to crabgrass & other weed problems along sidewalk and driveway edges.

dishboy
12-17-2009, 03:47 PM
I'm not aware of any studies showing the effects of herbicides on soil microbes. Maybe Kiril does?
That being said, we have not seen anything in the field that points to decreased results due to pre-emergent. We always urge that if you decide to use post emergent just spot treat as needed. And the best defense against weeds is a thick healthy lawn.
http://www.indianjournals.com/ijor.aspx?target=ijor:ijws&volume=29&issue=3and4&article=014
http://www.regional.org.au/au/asssi/supersoil2004/s12/oral/1522_Weckertm.htm

tremor
12-17-2009, 03:49 PM
Actually soil microbes get a boost following most agrochemical treatments. Remember Oftanol for grubs? The soil biologist girl at the CT Ag Station tried to tell me I was causing thatch by killing microbes. I agreed that chlordane caused thatch but Sevin or Diazinon? Never.

Well she continued along that train of thought through the 1980's then she was gone. She resurfaced in the news following the EXXON Valdeez incident.

She was part of the team of microbiologists that identified, cultured and bred bacteria that was used to clean up the spilled petroleum.

They learned of "enhanced microbial degradation" from Mobay (before Bayer). Their oftanol was failing miserably. Bacteria in the soil would gradually ramp up after every lawn care treatment. By the third consecutive season the bacteria population would be just large enough to eat all the Oftanol before the grubs could get their own toxic dose.

She never did thank us for the lessons.

ICT Bill
12-17-2009, 05:02 PM
A little off topic but we also had some interesting results in trials as a nematicide in warm season turf this year

At the University of Florida they used a control, us and nemacure. They applied once and took nematode counts each month, ours did not perform as we had hoped, minimal difference but the nemacure applied counts were taking off and soon through the roof it was if they really liked that stuff

I called and asked the good professor, his reply was "Enhanced microbial degradation of fenamiphos, basically pathogen enhancing soil"

I thought it was interesting, we will trial again this year with after tweaking the product, that is what trials are for, if it works great, if not tweak and try again

turf hokie
12-17-2009, 06:04 PM
Nice to see you back on Tremor.

phasthound
12-17-2009, 06:58 PM
I just did a bunch of reading of studies on soil microbial degredation from herbicides. Thanks for the links dirtandhoops. I found some others, too.

From what I can gather, the answer is yes and no. It seems some do negatively interfere with the herd, while others are fed upon by the herd.

Damn!! Why can't things be as simple as we would like to believe they are? :dizzy:

Rayholio
12-17-2009, 07:10 PM
If you have your customer survey worded anything like this post, then I can see exactly why your customers have been "unreceptive". :dizzy:
It's more than obvious that you're flagrantly bias toward the use of chemicals & generally against "natural options".
Next time, hire the services of an independent surveying firm before you post such an idiotic conclusion on here.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

grassman177
12-17-2009, 08:01 PM
nice posts guys, hey tremor i remember you around, where you been?

my whole goal is to always use as little pesticide as needed and concentrate on root and shoot density. this is one of the main reasons i am looking at the NP products. the screamin green is what i understand to be a bridge kind of hybrid product . i hope to gain ground and interest here for the more expensive truly natural soil ferts and add that to my program choices.

MLAWCARE
10-07-2010, 11:58 PM
Hey Grassman. I used Nutrients Plus Screamin Green for my round 5 and 6. The grass was a nice color after round 5 but it's a little early to tell on round 6. It has some slow release fert as well as some that I couldn't see a couple days after I applied it. I could still see a small amount of granules when I checked a couple properties after 6 weeks.
Barry was a big help in answering all my questions and never once told me what I HAD to do. He just helped me to understand the benefits of organics and OM.
I am going to try their Preem next year and continue the Screamin Green also.
I also had a new property that had a new house and lots of bare ground. I used Screamin Green and also sprayed ICT's Hydroseed product on the seed I spread. Man, that seed jumped up!
Both Bill @ ICT and Barry @ Tech Terra were great to work with and very patient with me. They are going to get my business from now on.
BTW, they have a plant about three hours south of you guys in El Dorado by Wichita. Delivery was $.85 per bag to Oak Grove. If you have a trailer you might just drive down there.

How much was it per bag. I have been reading and this product might be a whole lot easier than top dressing yards after aerating. Thanks

grassman177
11-15-2011, 06:05 PM
was wanting to revive this thread and hear some more users after the year we just had, your conditions and such and how it performed!!!!

anyone?

rcreech
11-15-2011, 06:55 PM
No input from me yet...but I just split a semi load with Rabbitman!

We anted to give it a try.

We are looking foreword to seeing what kind of results we get from it compared to our regular program.

See...I have an open mind!

LOL

CHARLES CUE
11-15-2011, 09:31 PM
So RC your going to carry and spread twice as much fert than you had to with 30-0-5 you use.

So how was the price comparison for a lbs of N.

I have priced it and screaming green was more but the price of shipping ads a lot. Where a reg supplier don't charge for shipping i would guess it's already in the price.

Didnt Larry use it.

Charles Cue

robertsturf
11-15-2011, 10:27 PM
Have used it in the past but shipping is an issue. Marks the price up about 1.50-2.00 per bag, ouch. Great product, wish they had a midwest supplier that you could pick it up at.

phasthound
11-15-2011, 10:48 PM
So RC your going to carry and spread twice as much fert than you had to with 30-0-5 you use.

So how was the price comparison for a lbs of N.

I have priced it and screaming green was more but the price of shipping ads a lot. Where a reg supplier don't charge for shipping i would guess it's already in the price.

Didnt Larry use it.

Charles Cue

Screamin Green is applied at 4lbs/K. You use less N & still get great results. Virginia Tech's 3 year study showed same turf quality with 1/3 N as 28-5-12.

Larry did not use it.

grassman177
11-16-2011, 09:10 AM
cool RC, that will be intersting

hey, am i wrong in that tremor, the member that resonded on the last 2009 page died?

anyways, roberts turf had great results, but his point is very valid.

lets revisit the price shall we phasthound, and if you need to pm me that is cool too.

we would be able to purchase and store about 16 pallets at a time max. that would have to be delivered and forklifted on gravel to our storage containers.

turf hokie
11-16-2011, 10:33 AM
[QUOTE=grassman177;4216878]cool RC, that will be intersting

hey, am i wrong in that tremor, the member that resonded on the last 2009 page died?

Tremor, (steve) did pass away this summer, he is missed, both on here and locally, I still have him programmed on my cell, can't bring myself to remove him, he was a great resource and taught me a lot.
Posted via Mobile Device

RABBITMAN11
11-16-2011, 01:23 PM
[QUOTE=grassman177;4216878]cool RC, that will be intersting

hey, am i wrong in that tremor, the member that resonded on the last 2009 page died?

Tremor, (steve) did pass away this summer, he is missed, both on here and locally, I still have him programmed on my cell, can't bring myself to remove him, he was a great resource and taught me a lot.
Posted via Mobile Device

We used three pallets of screamin grean the last round...Going to use it on selected lawns next season as well....

Efficiency
11-16-2011, 03:25 PM
its good stuff.

Maple Wood
11-16-2011, 05:22 PM
Hey Ralph I am thinking of buying some screaming green, would you be interested in splitting a truck load?

CHARLES CUE
11-16-2011, 06:41 PM
Is every one using 4 Lbs of screaming green per th and how many apps are you doing.And how far apart are they.

Well larry did make it sound like he used it but just his word games.

Charles Cue

americanlawn
11-16-2011, 08:28 PM
now that ain't nice.

we did side-by-side comparisons on 4 properties (Barry sent it to us)

screamin green at 4 lbs per K vs 30-0-5 50% XCU (Agrium) at 3 lbs per K

4 front lawns (2 clay, 2 loam)

no word games here, and I choose not to comment regarding the results :walking:

Is every one using 4 Lbs of screaming green per th and how many apps are you doing.And how far apart are they.

Well larry did make it sound like he used it but just his word games.

Charles Cue

CHARLES CUE
11-16-2011, 08:40 PM
now that ain't nice.

we did side-by-side comparisons on 4 properties (Barry sent it to us)

screamin green at 4 lbs per K vs 30-0-5 50% XCU (Agrium) at 3 lbs per K

4 front lawns (2 clay, 2 loam)

no word games here, and I choose not to comment regarding the results :walking:

Well Barry said you didn't use it so i though you were BS ing

But i do remember you saying some thing like it works good at full rate at some time.

No comment we know what that means.

Charles Cue

grassman177
11-16-2011, 10:06 PM
Hey Ralph I am thinking of buying some screaming green, would you be interested in splitting a truck load?

maybe so, we will have to talk

grassman177
11-16-2011, 10:08 PM
now that ain't nice.

we did side-by-side comparisons on 4 properties (Barry sent it to us)

screamin green at 4 lbs per K vs 30-0-5 50% XCU (Agrium) at 3 lbs per K

4 front lawns (2 clay, 2 loam)

no word games here, and I choose not to comment regarding the results :walking:

you can pm me those results!

Efficiency
11-17-2011, 08:10 AM
if Barry will cut me a break on my next truckload, I will sell a pallet to anyone who wants to try this stuff out. I have 10 skids of straight 16-2-3 I dont need til next year and 10 skids of 16-2-3 with pre-m. Barry, what do you say?

phasthound
11-17-2011, 03:43 PM
Larry,
I forgot you did get a 10lb sample. Sorry for the misinformation.

Everyone else, I'll be glad to discuss business matters.
techterra@comcast.net

RABBITMAN11
11-17-2011, 05:18 PM
Larry,
I forgot you did get a 10lb sample. Sorry for the misinformation.

Everyone else, I'll be glad to discuss business matters.
techterra@comcast.net

I don't think a 10 pound sample qualifies as true test!
Just like your other highly validated opinions!
I have nothing against you Larry but your information is often invalid!
I'm with Rod, open minded if it works and justifies the cost. *trucewhiteflag*

turf hokie
11-17-2011, 07:35 PM
How the heck do you do a side by side comparison on 4 lawns with 10 pounds of product. At some point i will cease to be amazed. Unfortunately, it ain't today
Posted via Mobile Device

rcreech
11-17-2011, 09:10 PM
10# sample @ 4# per K = 2.5K

2.5K divided by 4 lawns would be .62K per lawn


I guess I would just ask why do it over 4 lawns with such a small amount of material.

When I am checking a new product I compare 15K side by side and like to replicate it when I can.

Not a good test or even a true test IMO!

:)

americanlawn
11-17-2011, 10:04 PM
Never tried it :confused:
Only tried one bag :confused:

I think folks should know facts before posting. (IMO)

Initially we applied ten pound sample bag. Then we traded fert with a local competitor for some of his screamin green. The only true side-by-side tests we did were 4 front lawns. We used the rest of the screamin green on entire lawns. Also keep in mind that ISU typically tests fert formulations on 10 foot by ten foot plots.

Want to know who we traded with? Just send me a PM. Thanks. :usflag:

How the heck do you do a side by side comparison on 4 lawns with 10 pounds of product. At some point i will cease to be amazed. Unfortunately, it ain't today
Posted via Mobile Device

turf hokie
11-17-2011, 10:25 PM
Never tried it :confused:
Only tried one bag :confused:

I think folks should know facts before posting. (IMO)

Initially we applied ten pound sample bag. Then we traded fert with a local competitor for some of his screamin green. The only true side-by-side tests we did were 4 front lawns. We used the rest of the screamin green on entire lawns. Also keep in mind that ISU typically tests fert formulations on 10 foot by ten foot plots.

Want to know who we traded with? Just send me a PM. Thanks. :usflag:


Didn't say you did not try it,
Didn't say you tried only one bag.
Don't care who you "traded" with

I posted based on the facts given....
You claimed to do 4 side by side front lawns,
Supplier of said product gave you 10lbs,

4 lawns can't be done with 10lbs (front or entire)

You chose to withold supposed "facts" about "trading" with another company.

I based my comments on the facts that were given.....next time give the whole story, or can you not give the whole story in one sitting because the "facts" may need to be shuffled a bit in the next post???

I keep in mind a whole lot of things when reading any and all posts on this forum, not just a state university 10x10 plot that somehow magically makes your side by side test legitimate.

I have used trailer loads from Barry direct, not "traded" with a local competitor. We have pictures of our side by side comparisons......see thread link below

http://lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=257806

Good luck all.

mdlwn1
11-18-2011, 08:53 AM
now that ain't nice.

we did side-by-side comparisons on 4 properties (Barry sent it to us)

screamin green at 4 lbs per K vs 30-0-5 50% XCU (Agrium) at 3 lbs per K

4 front lawns (2 clay, 2 loam)

no word games here, and I choose not to comment regarding the results :walking:

I'm sure it goes without saying..lol.....4lbs per K is only a baseline. A truely knowlegable professional would apply per specific need and situation. EX. if you are feeding an under fed area, the 50% quick will win EVERY TIME..to a layman that is. If you are feeding a well fed area...the 50% quick will LOOSE EVERY TIME...when compared to 16-2-3...too much growth etc. I have my 5 acres down to a science...great color..very little growth. 16-2-3 and 7-2-12 are the products I use to achieve that, and only because I tried all the standard lesco type stuff first. Keep in mind I used standard syn fert for 18 or so years. Many companies are starting to sell similar products to Barry's because they offer a higher level of turf control....plain and simple. I often speak with golf supers around my area (luckily some of the top nationwide) and they are all using a wide range of products....none of which is a standard syn 50% scu or xcu. Most in fact are using products that are similar to what Barry sells. I'm not saying that as a commercial lawn company you should use this or that...only that if you are trying to fine tune a turf enviornment 30-0-5 50% xcu is just not something that would be used.

grassman177
11-18-2011, 09:18 AM
just cuz larry forgot to post about he got more material to do a test, doesnt mean his results arent valid(even though he has not posted them!)

we should not get into a tizzy over fert, just saying.

i am glad i brought this threadup again. good discussions.

phasthound
11-18-2011, 03:04 PM
I'm sure it goes without saying..lol.....4lbs per K is only a baseline.

Absolutely true. Screamin Green's label provides a range of 3.1 to 6.25 lbs/K.

rcreech
11-18-2011, 05:39 PM
I'm sure it goes without saying..lol.....4lbs per K is only a baseline. A truely knowlegable professional would apply per specific need and situation. EX. if you are feeding an under fed area, the 50% quick will win EVERY TIME..to a layman that is. If you are feeding a well fed area...the 50% quick will LOOSE EVERY TIME...when compared to 16-2-3...too much growth etc. I have my 5 acres down to a science...great color..very little growth. 16-2-3 and 7-2-12 are the products I use to achieve that, and only because I tried all the standard lesco type stuff first. Keep in mind I used standard syn fert for 18 or so years. Many companies are starting to sell similar products to Barry's because they offer a higher level of turf control....plain and simple. I often speak with golf supers around my area (luckily some of the top nationwide) and they are all using a wide range of products....none of which is a standard syn 50% scu or xcu. Most in fact are using products that are similar to what Barry sells. I'm not saying that as a commercial lawn company you should use this or that...only that if you are trying to fine tune a turf enviornment 30-0-5 50% xcu is just not something that would be used.


I am sure what you are saying is correct...but I have "fine tuned" all my lawns if you will with 30-0-5 (50% XCU).

You are making a blanket statement and that is tough to do.

Here is OH about all I need is a slow release N and I am good to go. Our P and K is great and we just need a slow release N for color and slowed growth.

I think there are many ways to skin a cat and I am looking forward to trying Screamin Green...but I have gotten awesome results with 30-0-5 and it will continue to be my standard again for 2012. I do have 11 Ton of Barry's product to try for 2012 though.

If Screamin Green proves itself then Barry will be sending me 5-6 truck loads for 2013!

phasthound
11-18-2011, 06:30 PM
If Screamin Green proves itself then Barry will be sending me 5-6 truck loads for 2013!

Just my luck, the world is going to end Dec. 21, 2012. :(

rcreech
11-18-2011, 07:38 PM
Don't worry Barry...I'll have all my fert n the barn before that so u will still get the sale
Lol
Posted via Mobile Device

Turf Dawg
11-18-2011, 08:17 PM
Just my luck, the world is going to end Dec. 21, 2012. :(

Now that is funny no matter who you are :laugh::laugh::laugh:




Should I pick out my coffin and sleep in it on Dec 20, 2012 :confused::confused:

phillie
11-21-2011, 04:06 AM
Is every one using 4 Lbs of screaming green per th and how many apps are you doing.And how far apart are they.


Charles Cue

I would also like to know these things. Currently I have a 6 app program, what apps would be best to replace with these products. Would I still be able to get 6 apps in? Right now I am using a 22-0-5 50%xcu or in early fall a 23-3-11 50% xcu both have 3% iron.

CHARLES CUE
11-21-2011, 10:14 PM
I would also like to know these things. Currently I have a 6 app program, what apps would be best to replace with these products. Would I still be able to get 6 apps in? Right now I am using a 22-0-5 50%xcu or in early fall a 23-3-11 50% xcu both have 3% iron.

They wont say> You will find out it like all fert. Yards that have good soil conditions will green up with less fert and those that have lesser quality soil will take more fert to make them green and keep them that way.

Charles Cue

phasthound
11-21-2011, 11:25 PM
I would also like to know these things. Currently I have a 6 app program, what apps would be best to replace with these products. Would I still be able to get 6 apps in? Right now I am using a 22-0-5 50%xcu or in early fall a 23-3-11 50% xcu both have 3% iron.

We set up custom programs all the time.

desert rose gardening
11-22-2011, 09:57 AM
I live and work in San Diego county, most types of grass grow here. I tried it on all types, Don't like it won't ever use it again. It takes way to long for green-up, one lawn I had to put it on three times before it greened up. Plus it smells like cat piss! I have a great fert i'v been using for 28 years and I will keep with it. Bests turf supreme in the summer and bests nitro king in the winter. My dealer talked me in to buying some fert from Norway once. After I bought it I was driving away asking my self, What the hell did I just do?! I bought fert from Norway? They don't know what kind pf soil we have in San Diego! Plus why in the hell am I helping the Norwegian economy?

mdlwn1
11-22-2011, 10:39 AM
I live and work in San Diego county, most types of grass grow here. I tried it on all types, Don't like it won't ever use it again. It takes way to long for green-up, one lawn I had to put it on three times before it greened up. Plus it smells like cat piss! I have a great fert i'v been using for 28 years and I will keep with it. Bests turf supreme in the summer and bests nitro king in the winter. My dealer talked me in to buying some fert from Norway once. After I bought it I was driving away asking my self, What the hell did I just do?! I bought fert from Norway? They don't know what kind pf soil we have in San Diego! Plus why in the hell am I helping the Norwegian economy?

While I do respect your opinion, your post SCREAMS something to me. You dont understand the composition of different ferts and how they will react under different circumstances. 28 years and you bought some fert from Noway and didn't know why? Regarding cat piss......really?...you never ever once smelled cat piss from any fert...ever? No offense, but I don't think you realize what your post says about you...and NOTHING about 16-2-3.

DA Quality Lawn & YS
11-22-2011, 12:03 PM
cat piss fert?? Does it burn?

grassman177
11-22-2011, 12:05 PM
While I do respect your opinion, your post SCREAMS something to me. You dont understand the composition of different ferts and how they will react under different circumstances. 28 years and you bought some fert from Noway and didn't know why? Regarding cat piss......really?...you never ever once smelled cat piss from any fert...ever? No offense, but I don't think you realize what your post says about you...and NOTHING about 16-2-3.

i have to agree here.

rcreech
11-22-2011, 12:26 PM
I agree with you guys!

Sounds like he doesn't understand what he is using and why!

Also...if you treat every lawn the same you are a fool!

Example:

We know our lawns and we carry starter on every truck along with 30-0-5.

If it is a heavily shaded lawn we don't push the N.


I had a customer with 2 acres this summer request Millorganite. I was very impressed with the results this fall.

However due to the cost and amount of product I had to use it would keep me from doing much in the future.

I did it myself and it turned a 40 min job into a 1.5 hour job.
:(

Not good!

phasthound
11-22-2011, 01:03 PM
C'mon man, cat piss was our secret ingredient. Now we'll have to find something else.

grassman177
11-22-2011, 02:19 PM
i use a blend for two years now with some milorganite, loved it. cant wait to try some of the nutrients plus ferts for next year

DA Quality Lawn & YS
11-22-2011, 06:51 PM
C'mon man, cat piss was our secret ingredient. Now we'll have to find something else.

I don't even want to know how you harvested cat piss my friend:laugh:

grassman177
11-22-2011, 08:08 PM
the same as they harvest cat turds for coffee and tea

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kopi_Luwak

americanlawn
11-22-2011, 09:15 PM
I think we ended up using about a dozen bags last year (traded 50% XCU for it). IMO it was a bad trade cuz:

1) Turf color (as well as the longevity of color) was weak

2) It was also somewhat dusty, and impeller fins tended to cake up more quickly vs XCU fert

3) It smelled really bad

4) Cost per acre was high

Regarding odor:

1) My guys truly hated the foul odor. When they opened the bags, they said it immediately smelled like a "dead mouse".

2) Some customers also noticed the foul odor, so they questioned us as to what we were applying (this was obviously not a selling point)

I was all set to order a semi load, but my guys got wind of it. So it never happened. Wife also said, "Good decision".

my 2 cents plus the 2 cents of ALL my employees

Efficiency
11-22-2011, 09:48 PM
cat piss fert?? Does it burn?

if you have a bag get wet and sit for any length of time, when you open it, it will smell like cap piss and literally make your eyes water.

Larry, what did you figure the cost per acre to be? Ive been called names with how low I can bid, even using SG.

grassman177
11-22-2011, 10:40 PM
my cost per bag of screamin green is way less than what i have been using, so cost per acre is cheaper, not more.

mdlwn1
11-23-2011, 09:52 AM
I think we ended up using about a dozen bags last year (traded 50% XCU for it). IMO it was a bad trade cuz:

1) Turf color (as well as the longevity of color) was weak

2) It was also somewhat dusty, and impeller fins tended to cake up more quickly vs XCU fert

3) It smelled really bad

4) Cost per acre was high

Regarding odor:

1) My guys truly hated the foul odor. When they opened the bags, they said it immediately smelled like a "dead mouse".

2) Some customers also noticed the foul odor, so they questioned us as to what we were applying (this was obviously not a selling point)

I was all set to order a semi load, but my guys got wind of it. So it never happened. Wife also said, "Good decision".

my 2 cents plus the 2 cents of ALL my employees

Turf Color-I have seen nothing but the opposite. I'll add that when dealing with natural/organic substances, my experiance has shown that temperature can have a HUGE impact on results...especially regarding milorganite. I don't feel anyone can resonably say "it didn't work". SG is just another tool in the box that when used and understood correctly....works. No one on this thread has given a valid (by definition) reason that it didn't work. Maybe it didn't work for YOU because of YOUR scenario...again, it's just another tool to be used where needed. A common problem I see in the lawncare community is that a lot of companies/guys need to pound their customers lawns into oblivion because the outfit cutting those lawns is playing the chopping game and doesn't know or care how to cut turf. Under this scenario, saying Screamin Green didn't work under normal app rates is like saying my porsche won't pull my 40' motor home...don't ever buy a porsche. The bottom line is this: it's just another tool...not knowing how or when a tool should be used isn't a valid reason to say the tool didn't work as claimed. Just about all ferts out there work as intended. It's up to the professional to determine when, where, and how to make that tool work.

Cost IS a valid argument.
Smell (although is disagree) IS a valid argument.
Dust (c'mon..employees don't regularly clean the equip?) IS a valid argument.

NattyLawn
11-23-2011, 10:35 AM
Turf Color-I have seen nothing but the opposite. I'll add that when dealing with natural/organic substances, my experiance has shown that temperature can have a HUGE impact on results...especially regarding milorganite. I don't feel anyone can resonably say "it didn't work". SG is just another tool in the box that when used and understood correctly....works. No one on this thread has given a valid (by definition) reason that it didn't work. Maybe it didn't work for YOU because of YOUR scenario...again, it's just another tool to be used where needed. A common problem I see in the lawncare community is that a lot of companies/guys need to pound their customers lawns into oblivion because the outfit cutting those lawns is playing the chopping game and doesn't know or care how to cut turf. Under this scenario, saying Screamin Green didn't work under normal app rates is like saying my porsche won't pull my 40' motor home...don't ever buy a porsche. The bottom line is this: it's just another tool...not knowing how or when a tool should be used isn't a valid reason to say the tool didn't work as claimed. Just about all ferts out there work as intended. It's up to the professional to determine when, where, and how to make that tool work.

Cost IS a valid argument.
Smell (although is disagree) IS a valid argument.
Dust (c'mon..employees don't regularly clean the equip?) IS a valid argument.

Good post, mdlwn.

Regarding odor. I've probably used a few truckloads of this stuff over the years and have experienced some smelly bags as well, though not too often. Remember that you're dealing with composted poultry manure and milorganite here, which are both biologically active products. Add a little N to the mix and a tiny bit of moisture and you can have some reaction in the bag. Also, shipping could have caused this (think shrink wrapped pallet and humidity on a tractor trailer in the dead of summer).

Some of the opinions on this board are nuts, especially one based on a 12 bag sample that you traded for. How long was that stuff sitting around?

CHARLES CUE
11-23-2011, 07:36 PM
my cost per bag of screamin green is way less than what i have been using, so cost per acre is cheaper, not more.

I was quoted 21.55 for a bag for 4 skids that was back in 2008 still have the email. I did get a quot last year and it was more that that. That is more than i pay for Fert.I bet it is good fert but to costly at this point.

Charles Cue

grassman177
11-23-2011, 08:05 PM
i guess it is because you dont use truckloads. we do, and then the price is almost half that!!

CHARLES CUE
11-23-2011, 08:13 PM
i guess it is because you dont use truckloads. we do, and then the price is almost half that!!

Now that would be a good price

Charles Cue

americanlawn
11-23-2011, 08:30 PM
We got it from Pxxxx, and it was a recent shipment. Our fert was also a fresh shipment.

I feel that 600 pounds is enough product to make comparisons, especially after being in this business since the late '70s.

Good post, mdlwn.

Regarding odor. I've probably used a few truckloads of this stuff over the years and have experienced some smelly bags as well, though not too often. Remember that you're dealing with composted poultry manure and milorganite here, which are both biologically active products. Add a little N to the mix and a tiny bit of moisture and you can have some reaction in the bag. Also, shipping could have caused this (think shrink wrapped pallet and humidity on a tractor trailer in the dead of summer).

Some of the opinions on this board are nuts, especially one based on a 12 bag sample that you traded for. How long was that stuff sitting around?

americanlawn
11-23-2011, 08:45 PM
2008 example: We paid $13.75 per bag for 44-0-0 25% XCU. This is a much heavier nitrogen "load" compared to what you got. If P & K are not lacking, why apply it? High cost per acre can kill a business. Nothing against Screamin' Green, but we are in a very competitive market. "One App" is another option guys are choosing. BTW, ISU recommends core aeration instead of ........ They go further by stating that organic matter needs to be incorporated into the soil in order to be effective. Makes sence to me.

I was quoted 21.55 for a bag for 4 skids that was back in 2008 still have the email. I did get a quot last year and it was more that that. That is more than i pay for Fert.I bet it is good fert but to costly at this point.

Charles Cue

phasthound
11-23-2011, 09:56 PM
Larry,

No need to xxx out my name, I've got nothing to hide. We sent you a 10# sample & you did complain about an odor. I don't know where you got the other bags from, I do remember you said whoever it was has been happy with Screamin Green for years and I believe they continue to use it. Apparently, you were not happy with Screamin Green, I appreciate that you gave it a try. I doubt there is any single fert that will make everyone happy, no big deal.

americanlawn
11-23-2011, 11:16 PM
Sorry about that. The Pxxxx stood for a local competitor located on US hwy 69. I have known them since 1985, and we help each other out whenever possible. Even today, we shared a part load of preemergent with them. (Agrium) 18-0-4 30% XCU, 0.38 Barricade for $14.00 per bag plus a 35 cent Syngenta rebate later in 2012.

Haven't talked to Kxxx recently, so I'm not sure what his round 2 plans are. I know he was pleased with your product.

Only thing I know is organic matter works best when placed within the soil profile. ISU also says there is no "miracle product" that does the job while applying it on the surface. Shoot me if I'm wrong.

Not happy with Screamin' Green... We know it's a great product. But putting all that extra weight into a push spreader makes work harder for my guys (labor intensive). I figure that's why TURFCO, LT Rich, Permagreen, etc keep improving ride-on applicators so they can eliminate hard work.




.Larry,

No need to xxx out my name, I've got nothing to hide. We sent you a 10# sample & you did complain about an odor. I don't know where you got the other bags from, I do remember you said whoever it was has been happy with Screamin Green for years and I believe they continue to use it. Apparently, you were not happy with Screamin Green, I appreciate that you gave it a try. I doubt there is any single fert that will make everyone happy, no big deal.

turf hokie
11-24-2011, 08:10 AM
But putting all that extra weight into a push spreader makes work harder for my guys (labor intensive). I figure that's why TURFCO, LT Rich, Permagreen, etc keep improving ride-on applicators so they can eliminate hard work.




.

Which weighs more, a 50lb bag of feathers or a 50 lb bag of lead? Which weiighs more a 50lb bag of screamin green or a 50 lb bag of Sxxxx? Why would using screamin green cause the need for extra weight in the spreader?????

Do you post just to get a rise out of people, none of your thoughts are ....thought out....

just another lawn guy
11-29-2011, 12:22 PM
It is simple to understand. Would you rather put 60 lbs of fert in a spreader and push it around or 25 lbs.

turf hokie
11-29-2011, 02:00 PM
It is simple to understand. Would you rather put 60 lbs of fert in a spreader and push it around or 25 lbs.

Simple? Then tell me why are you putting 60 lbs of one fetilizer in the hopper and only 25 lbs of another? What would cause.the need to add an additional 35 lbs? Is it.covering less sq footage or are we just trying to defend wbat cant be defended?
Posted via Mobile Device

phasthound
11-29-2011, 06:32 PM
It's not rocket science, Screamin Green is applied at 3 to 5 lbs/K no matter how much you put in the spreader.

americanlawn
11-29-2011, 08:27 PM
Answer: AI , cuz the added weight of dirt is not the answer.

Where's my prize?

Simple? Then tell me why are you putting 60 lbs of one fetilizer in the hopper and only 25 lbs of another? What would cause.the need to add an additional 35 lbs? Is it.covering less sq footage or are we just trying to defend wbat cant be defended?
Posted via Mobile Device

turf hokie
11-29-2011, 09:07 PM
Answer: AI , cuz the added weight of dirt is not the answer.

Where's my prize?

no prize awarded yet....
who said anything about AI?? We are talking fertilizers, NPK, no AI
Why are you adding dirt to your hopper?
Is that for the guy that doesnt have time to go to the gym?

grassman177
11-30-2011, 09:04 AM
he is getting at the higher npk raitio so they have to push less fert around, just likes more concentrated fert is all for him. i get it, but doesnt bother me any. however, more concentrated fert does save $$$$

RABBITMAN11
11-30-2011, 09:35 AM
he is getting at the higher npk raitio so they have to push less fert around, just likes more concentrated fert is all for him. i get it, but doesnt bother me any. however, more concentrated fert does save $$$$

We are looking to see if this adds value to our existing service! Same as buying a new equipment! We are open to new equipment and material if there is value. So whats the big deal here? Sounds like it will be a great addition to our program...Creech and I are going to give it a shot..Unless you have tried it you can't say!

turf hokie
11-30-2011, 10:34 AM
he is getting at the higher npk raitio so they have to push less fert around, just likes more concentrated fert is all for him. i get it, but doesnt bother me any. however, more concentrated fert does save $$$$

Yes I understand what guys are CONFUSED about....they are confused about what is an opinion, what is made up and what is based on facts and experience.

Higher NPK does not equal saving money, nor does it mean that you need to push around more fert....

Virginia Tech (since some rely on university studies) showed that the results from Screamin Green when compared to 28-5-12 were essentially the same when applied at the same rate per 1,000 sq ft. I am sure Barry can share the link to that study.

sooooo..... if for example IF 4lbs per 1,000 is 4 lbs per 1,000 THEN 4lbs per 1000 is 4lbs per 1000....it does not matter if the N is 28 or 16 if the results at 4lbs per thousand are the same.

Therefore we can conclude that by using screamin green we can acheive, at a minimum, the same results using LESS inputs (NPK) while pushing around the SAME weight in the spreader. And it also needs to be noted that screamin green is from multiple N sources not just xcu, scu, mesa, ibdu or whatever the flavor of the month is....

Although how much you put in the spreader seems to me a personal preference and not a reason to choose one product over another. I put 37.89 lbs of fertilizer in my spreader no matter what I am pushing:hammerhead:

Still waiting to hear why dirt is being put in the spreader with the fertilizer......

AND I have used tons of the product bought directly from Barry, not traded, bartered or samples, but.....trailer loads.....

RABBITMAN11
11-30-2011, 11:23 AM
Yes I understand what guys are CONFUSED about....they are confused about what is an opinion, what is made up and what is based on facts and experience.

Higher NPK does not equal saving money, nor does it mean that you need to push around more fert....

Virginia Tech (since some rely on university studies) showed that the results from Screamin Green when compared to 28-5-12 were essentially the same when applied at the same rate per 1,000 sq ft. I am sure Barry can share the link to that study.

sooooo..... if for example IF 4lbs per 1,000 is 4 lbs per 1,000 THEN 4lbs per 1000 is 4lbs per 1000....it does not matter if the N is 28 or 16 if the results at 4lbs per thousand are the same.

Therefore we can conclude that by using screamin green we can acheive, at a minimum, the same results using LESS inputs (NPK) while pushing around the SAME weight in the spreader. And it also needs to be noted that screamin green is from multiple N sources not just xcu, scu, mesa, ibdu or whatever the flavor of the month is....

Although how much you put in the spreader seems to me a personal preference and not a reason to choose one product over another. I put 37.89 lbs of fertilizer in my spreader no matter what I am pushing:hammerhead:

Still waiting to hear why dirt is being put in the spreader with the fertilizer......

AND I have used tons of the product bought directly from Barry, not traded, bartered or samples, but.....trailer loads.....
Well said!!!!
Posted via Mobile Device

rcreech
11-30-2011, 06:35 PM
Well said!!!!
Posted via Mobile Device

Yep!

That is kinda the way I used to think...but I have used a little of this product in the last two years and a little of the millorganite and I must say I have been pretty impressed.

I am not afraid to eat a little crow as sometimes we get set in our ways.

As they say...it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks!

:)

grassman177
11-30-2011, 06:46 PM
i think you guys misunderstood what i was saying, anyways, the part about concentrated fert ratios saving money is true. it is cheaper per Lb of N to buy a higher N fert than lower N fert for me anyways, but spreading at a lower rate is harder sometimes due to prill size and hopper gate openings.

ex, it is really hard to spread a 46-0-0 at less than 2lbs per K, because the gateopening is too small. but in theory, the N and overall cost is cheaper to apply it like this vs higher app rate of a lesser N ratio fert.

so, that is true.

rcreech
12-05-2011, 06:15 PM
Barry,

Can you please give me a call when you get a chance.

Have a question for you.

Thanks!

David W
12-07-2011, 08:14 AM
We have used N+'s 16-2-3 and other ferts for a couple seasons now and the results are great. I started off with one pallet of Screamin Green to try out and now we are increasing each year as we implement on other property's. It's fertilizer with bio solids. It works and is worth trying out. They are good people to work with as is Barry.

grassman177
12-10-2011, 04:46 PM
good to hear/ thanks for the reply.

NEW CITY LAWN CARE LLC
12-10-2011, 05:38 PM
Any Distributors of the product here on the West Coast?

bflower
12-13-2011, 12:06 AM
have used a few pallets now with great results. Just curious what kind of results to expect compared to run of the mill 30% slow release pre-emergent for round one vs screamin with cavalcade. Should I expect more dust than standard screamin green? Looking forward to less flush growth on round 1 and returning to a greener lawn if weather holds me off until the 8-10 week range for round 2.

Efficiency
12-13-2011, 11:17 AM
have used a few pallets now with great results. Just curious what kind of results to expect compared to run of the mill 30% slow release pre-emergent for round one vs screamin with cavalcade. Should I expect more dust than standard screamin green? Looking forward to less flush growth on round 1 and returning to a greener lawn if weather holds me off until the 8-10 week range for round 2.

I actually had much less breakthrough than others who used barricade locally with the wet spring. Did single app mid march. Some didnt even get it til late april (late joiners) and still had little break through. Let me know if you want to get in on my order. Truck load orders are much cheaper than a few skids here and there. Only a few hours drive I think.

phasthound
12-14-2011, 09:19 PM
For truckload buyers only:

We have pricing and terms available now for early shipment of Screamin Green w/Cavalcade.

PM me for details.

Turf Dawg
12-15-2011, 07:25 PM
For truckload buyers only:

We have pricing and terms available now for early shipment of Screamin Green w/Cavalcade.

PM me for details.

I am a small timer, so if any of you big boys are near Dallas or Oklahoma City and you use this would y'all please PM me. I would like to try a pallet or so but do not really have anywhere to have it shipped to and I have to load and unload by hand.

Thank you and Merry CHRISTmas

Bill

bflower
01-05-2012, 11:44 AM
for all you screamin green users, has anyone ever used nutrients plus 10 4 2 with cavalcade for their first round. Just curious of results.I realize we are no longer looking for your typical 3-5lbs per year, however a little apprehensive of running only .4 lbs of nitrogen and running out of color.

David W
01-05-2012, 11:48 AM
We used a pallet last year. Color looked great but we did a couple apps of 16-2-3 the previous fall as well so.....early green up or 10-4-2 pre-em kicking in??? Either way turf looked great and had a nice green up. We rather have less N starting early in year anyway and it's cheaper to use than 16-2-3 with pre-em.

bflower
01-05-2012, 12:00 PM
between the considerable cost savings of 10 4 2 and 54% organic material vs only 40% in screaming i think we will be using it. I will be missing the quick green of ammonium sulfate in screamin. Had you ever run them side by side? and did they hold their color for at least 6-8 weeks?

grassman177
01-05-2012, 07:31 PM
good questions. i am still trying to get alhold of some of this. forklift issue.

NEW CITY LAWN CARE LLC
01-05-2012, 07:33 PM
Anywhere on the West Coast to get these products?
Posted via Mobile Device

EquityGreen
01-05-2012, 07:35 PM
Can someone pm me with a phone number to get some info on these products please.

Thanks,
James
Posted via Mobile Device

boats47
01-09-2012, 09:01 AM
I use Screamin green and swear by that fert! You want results and a healthier soil, put a couple rounds down and you will see the results. Barry introduced that product line a couple years ago and would not thing about using anything else. Try it out for a season, what do have to loose? Just about all of my customers are still a very nice deep green color compared to the surrounding houses that I do not care for, thats the proof.

grassman177
01-09-2012, 06:46 PM
i am more than willing to try it, but unfortunately i cant get it due to logistical reasons aka no forklift. the shipping industry has taken a huge hit and many dont offer that service anymore. limits the end user alot in the end. or lack of end user to be more exact

NEW CITY LAWN CARE LLC
01-09-2012, 07:12 PM
Can't you just get it delivered to your closest freight terminal and they can load it up for you?
Posted via Mobile Device

DA Quality Lawn & YS
01-09-2012, 07:35 PM
Who has run the 1st round fert + Cavalcade (prodiamine)?
Results?

NEW CITY LAWN CARE LLC
01-09-2012, 09:24 PM
FROM TOILET TO TABLE - Sit down and have a helping of "biosolids."???

Chicken Manure in “Organic” Fertilizers and Soils—Can you say “cheap cheap?”

I've been reading so much lately, can anyone set me straight with all these organic materials, etc.. GMO's?

NEW CITY LAWN CARE LLC
01-09-2012, 09:38 PM
FROM TOILET TO TABLE - Sit down and have a helping of "biosolids."???

Chicken Manure in “Organic” Fertilizers and Soils—Can you say “cheap cheap?”

I've been reading so much lately, can anyone set me straight with all these organic materials, etc.. GMO's?

Its sounds like a good product with great results, but the more I read about organic materials in fertilizer, I read that bio-solids and Chicken manure are undesirable ingredients and very cheap, and should be avoided, as well as GMO's, which are the main ingredients in Screamin Green, so I don't know where to go from here....

grassman177
01-09-2012, 09:48 PM
Can't you just get it delivered to your closest freight terminal and they can load it up for you?
Posted via Mobile Device

they could unload it next door for us, that is not the issue, our storage containers are accross a gravel lot, and require air tires(most forks dont have) AND it is a whole truck load. i sure as hell aint gonna unload and stack that many pallets!!!!

phasthound
01-09-2012, 10:32 PM
Can't you just get it delivered to your closest freight terminal and they can load it up for you?
Posted via Mobile Device

That is commonly done for pallet orders, but not 1/2 or full truckloads.

NattyLawn
01-09-2012, 10:40 PM
Its sounds like a good product with great results, but the more I read about organic materials in fertilizer, I read that bio-solids and Chicken manure are undesirable ingredients and very cheap, and should be avoided, as well as GMO's, which are the main ingredients in Screamin Green, so I don't know where to go from here....

Nutrients Plus ferts contain composted poultry manure, not just straight poultry manure. It gives you a more stable product, plus more steps taken in processing. Poultry manure used to be cheap, now not so much. Demand is high and supply is low.

Biosolids are human manure. Cheap, yes. Abundant, yes. Good turf green up? Sure. It's up to you whether or not you want to apply them. I think most of the heavy metal concerns are in the past.

GMO's? They're in just about everything we eat (unless you're buying GMO free, or the chickens are being fed GMO free grains (or grass). GMO free will be $$$$$...

IMO, Nutrients Plus makes ferts with recycled materials (for the most part). The higher N ferts obviously have added N, but I like the idea of using a waste product on customers lawns rather than using urea or other mined forms of nutrients. Guys on here look at things from all different angles, so their will be opinions different from mine.

NattyLawn
01-09-2012, 10:43 PM
Who has run the 1st round fert + Cavalcade (prodiamine)?
Results?

In the past I've used both 16-2-3 and 10-4-2 w/Cavalcade for pre-em rounds. Both are good products but I mainly stuck with the 10-4-2, as it gives a long lasting green up without the twice a week mowings that some others give.

DA Quality Lawn & YS
01-13-2012, 06:17 PM
Anyone in the Upper Midwest order a truckload that I could look into snagging a pallet off of? Talking about the Screamin+Cavalcade product. Got pricing on direct ship of single pallet but it is a fair bit above the per K pricing I got on the 17-0-0 .28 Barricade product I used the last couple years.

RodneyK
04-21-2012, 09:13 AM
The label I saw says 1 percent iron but does not say what type of iron. Are there issues with Screamin Green staining concrete?

David W
04-21-2012, 09:42 AM
I haven't had any.
Posted via Mobile Device

RABBITMAN11
04-21-2012, 01:14 PM
The label I saw says 1 percent iron but does not say what type of iron. Are there issues with Screamin Green staining concrete?

No problem staining if you blow of concrete!

David W
04-21-2012, 01:22 PM
My response was assuming everyone blows off after a app.
Posted via Mobile Device

DA Quality Lawn & YS
10-12-2012, 04:10 PM
Trugreen doesn't blow down.

mdlwn1
10-12-2012, 05:08 PM
I've let it sit for a few days in moist/wet weather and had no problems...not saying do it though.

phasthound
10-12-2012, 05:25 PM
Hundreds of thousands of tons sold, never heard a complaint about Screamin Green staining concrete.