Getting more professional

[NewbieOwner]

Hey folks,

Well, the seasons started really well. I finally quit my other job on friday, and now I'm doing landscape maintenance full time (and a good bit of tree pruning mixed in) Route is now full enough that I'm going to be working 10-12 hour days, 6 days a week!

Again, thanks for everyones help earlier in the season as I was just getting going. Your help and support was greatly appreciated!

I now have a dillemma which requires additional help. I've got the $ in the bank now, to either go buy some better equipment (Current equipment is a pair of MTD mowers, Poulan Pro straight shaft trimmer, and a weed eater handheld blower) Or replace my vehicle. (Oh, I did buy a 12' enclosed trailer 2 weeks ago) Its an old Jeep, gets the job done, but its REALLY hard on gas, not really ideal for its purpose, and it looks like s__t.

I see great advantages to both, but funds don't allow for it. My route is almost 100% residential, all under 4000sq feet. I spend about 80% of my day mowing, the other 20% doing tree work (I LOVE BLACK KNOT!)

Half my day I spend thinking, lets get a nice 32" Walker, some better push mowers, trimmers, and blower. The other half I spend thinking "Please get me through the day baby, if ya do I'll get you those new tires and lift you want"

If I get the better equipment I can do more work, pay for a brand spanking new truck sooner, but that wont do if I don't have a way to get to the job... But a fancy new truck isn't really going to allow me to take more work, make more $ thus allowing me to buy better equipment... Catch 22...

I did talk to the chev dealer about financing, but after my move and resulting financial difficulties (and owning my own buisness) they won't touch me with a 100' pole! Bank doesn't think much better of me (even though I've got over 10k$ in their institution).

My wife (smart as she is) suggests a) buying a new 'used' pickup, or b) fixing the jeep up a bit. And buying some used landscaping equipment... Smart woman, but used equipment scares me, considering the 'local' dealers are at least 2 hours drive away...

As always your help is greatly appreciated, thanks for taking the time to help me out!

Andrew

[ProSeasons]

If you cant get you OR your equipment TO a job site, You have failed at this, right? Shoot, a nice pick-up and a push mower, weed eater and you could still service a client or two. Heck a nice truck and a pair of scissors! You could own a 24 foot Haulmark with a 60 inch Lazer Z and two 48 inch WB's and all the trimmings but if you cant tow it to the job site, what are you going to do then? Throw a rope over your shoulder and pull it around? :D Let me introduce you to the benefits of a nice DIESEL pick-up truck. Mine gets 12 mpg towing in the city, 22 empty on the highway, the bed is your spare trailer, toss in a WB and a trimmer, edger, blower and gas can and your off! Plus, diesels offer ALL kinds of power, durability and longevity. 500,000 miles is not unusual. Ford, Dodge or Chevy, You can't go wrong! Seriously, it sounds as if your Jeep is in it's death throes. Don't leave your new business stranded at the side of the road. Brian.

[SLS]

I agree with ProGreen.

I have a friend that was in the same situation...bought a lawncare biz that included a Dixie Chopper and Scag W/B's...and a shabby ol' van to tote em' around.

He wound up spending more time on the side of the road (and explaining to customers why he was behind) than he did making moolah. :(

Then he got a great deal on a new Chevy Silverado (?) that was a "no frills" package but did include a heavy-duty towing package with electric trailer breaks hookup.

Now he is smiling all the way to the bank.

The moral of this story?:

Even the best Dixie Choppers and Redmax handhelds are useless if you can't get them to the worksite. :)

Glad to see things are coming together for you since your move, NewbieOwner!

[Barkleymut]

I think this is why if you want to have a 1st class operation from the beginning you need a new truck and over $15K in startup cash to do really well in your first 5 years. Otherwise you will be spending as much time at your storage location as you do on your customers properties.

[MOW ED]

If the mowers are still working and you are working 6 days a week, 10-12 hour days then I agree with the above and you should look for a work truck. You don't need a 1 ton 45K dually. Minimum is a Chev W/T or a bare bones Ford, I personally am not a Mopar man. The other requirement is that it has the capacity to do what you will be doing for the next 2-3 years, i.e. minimum 1/2 ton V-8 or diesel. Sixers are nice and cheap, they ride around nice when the trailer isn't attatched but you are yankin an enclosed trailer.
I don't know your money situation but be creative with the bucks and with what you have. If you have a house, and you are confident that you are doing well in the business, use part of your house as equity. Put 25% or more down out of that 10K you have in the bank. Talk to your tax guy, I am sure Canada has different tax laws but if you are running a legit business then your payment, maintenance, mileage and gas may all be deductable.
You are in the hardest time of the business. You need everything and you can't afford to have breakdowns. It is true that if you cant get to the property, you cant do the work. Its also true that if you get to the property and don't have the equipment you cant do the work. You have to figure out which one may let you down first. Good Luck

[LawnLad]

Quite the dilemma. I remember thinking I wanted a new(er) truck when I got into the business. I was using a station wagon to pull a 5 x 8' trailer when I was in high school. A mentor of sorts told me, it doesn't matter how you get to the job - as long as you get to it. It matters that you have the right equipment and you're giving your customer the best job possible. After all, when you pull away - your finished product stays behind. Who cares how you got there. The $300 a month I would have spent on a truck would not have made me any more money than I was currently making... but going from 21" mowers to a 36" did.

But... you still need that truck to get there. The guys are right - without a horse - the wagon will never get there to do the work. If you are able to finance, look at your cash flow. If not, consider used. I'd agree with MOWED, you're at one of the toughest times for the business... estimate which is going to break down first... your truck or equipment.

[Brickman]

Yes you are between a rock and a hard place. My suggestion would be a used truck, and NEW equipment. Yes used would scare me too.
In the US you could get a decent used 3/4 for $7000, or $8000 that might last you for several years, or maybe just one and then you could trade it in for a newer one. With all the work it sounds like you are getting you NEED to be able to get there, and do it. And as long as that is happening your $$$ will keep coming, and next thing you know you have the $ for equipment too.

[scott's turf]

Yes,used has saved me lots of money. It will cause some additional problems though. I bout a 92 F250 diesel a couple of years ago for $6k. Paid cash for it and have had to put in about $2k per year in repairs. Luckily it has not caused me to lose work because I was able to use my personal truck when the other was in the shop. Diesel repairs are not chep though. It has been in the shop for a total of about 6 days. 3 of those days were for a transmission rebuild. So $2k/year is quite a savings I feel. I think one could be easily paying $7k/year for a new truck. I keep my truck looking great. It has about 250,000 miles on it. I am told that it could esily get another 100,000. We only put around 10,000 per year so I will be good for awhile. I am very busy and I don't feel that having a used truck has cause me to look unprofessional and thus losing bids. Spend your money on equipment that will result in more work and less time.

[TGCummings]

Well, if you're working 60 hours a week on the job you should have another $10K for equipment in no time, if you're charging professional rates. If not, consider revising your pricing policies to work less for more money and put less stress on current equipment (and body!).

If you worry the vehicle will not make it, get another one. Try to upgrade to better 21" commercial mowers. At the size of lawns you're doing you won't be needing anything larger anytime soon (voice of experience).

Pace it out. If you're charging what you should and working those hours you should be able to get the truck and mower one month. Better auxillary equipment (weedeater, edger, blower) the next month and, if you find you must have it, a 32" or 36" mower the next month.

After that, you'll just have to find something else to spend all your extra money on. ;)

[NewbieOwner]

Ok, better clarify a little,

Jeep has yet to let me stranded at the side of the road, (5 minute fixit stops not included) But she's getting old for sure, and the extra abuse of towing a trailer around in town is starting to show.

Todays Victoria day holiday here in Canada, and I'm out replacing the front axle u-joints, gotta pull the front driveshaft (ball in the center of the CV has fallen apart, makes a NASTY clunking anytime I'm driving) Probably spend this afternoon dealing with a leaking rear axle seal (lots of 90w in the passenger side brake drum) If I feel REALLY adventurous I'll tackle the upper alternator mount bolt (that 8" long one) that sheared flush to the head (Used a spring center pin to hold it to the mount for now)

My MTD mowers are doing great, Nice cuts (now that i've replaced the blades) They've been almost 100% reliable (small water in gas issue earlier, leading to the purchase of the backup mower) Trimer starts every time, thats about all I can say thats good about it, balance is all wrong, my wrists hurt just thinking about it. But it gets the job done, and it starts every time. The weed eater blower is JUNK, 10-15 pulls to start, and then I often wonder if I couldn't just get on my hands and knees do a little huffing and puffing and do a better job!

That said, I can also honestly say I'm making the equipment I have work well. My quality is by far the best in town, so I'm obviously making it work for me. Doesn't stop me from dreaming about self-propelled mowers, that sweet Echo SRM 2400, or that brand new Stihl BR400 I was running last year.

I can just keep saving and replace as needed, but when I sit down and look at the numbers, most of the $ I used to pay off debts, and now the $ in the bank came from the pruning work I was doing. (breaks down roughly to 60% pruning, 40% lawn maintenance) Trees have started to green up, so a lot of that work is now missing (hedge trimming is soon to start though!) Having a tough time deciding, and budgeting... I've got a headache, I think I'll go work on the Jeep now :)

[Edit] Forgot, no I don't own a house... So no equity to borrow from there. And as much as I'd like to spend a big % of my earnings on new equipment, I haven't figured out what I'll do through the winter, so I'm trying to put away enough to get through the winter and start up again next spring. Cuts back on the purchasing abilities somewhat...

My prices ARE the highest in town. I'm a good 50-100% higher than any of my competitors (Might have to check again, they've raised theirs in the last month) My lowest cut is 45$ canadian (competitors are in the 20$ range)

Andrew

[Russo]

Originally posted by NewbieOwner
when I sit down and look at the numbers, most of the $ I used to pay off debts

....and people are telling you to go and buy a 1 ton deisel.....

Your business should be a blessing to be enjoyed while you prosper. Consider that when making any purchase. It will not be a blessing if you can't sleep because you're in debt. You already stated that the bank won't lend to you, that should tell you something. OK- I won't make you guess, it should tell you that you are not in the position to go deeper into debt.

Glad you were able to quit the day job. Congradulations and good luck in with the new biz!

[FrankenScagMachines]

Maybe in the winter if you can't snowplow, or if there's not much to do, you can get a p/t job (always flexible if it's P/T) at a grocery store or gas station where there's heat and the work isn't backbreaking usually. I guess you know you can use a trimmer as a blower too (alittle slower going), so you won't have to wear yourself out just starting the blower. And for larger areas you can use a mower (better in reverse) with the chute down to blow off the driveway or what have you. Another thing to remember - the more expensive the machine, the more expensive the breakdowns are, even though there are less of them. Example - the most common major breakdown on 2 cycle hand held equipment tends to be the ignition coil. Now one for a Homelite will be about $40, but a Stihl one can be upto $80. That should tell you something, because it does not cost twice as much to make and there are almost as many Stihls that go out as there are Homelites. Granted, it may last longer and be better to use, but breakdowns when they happen, will be more costly. That's one thing to consider. As it is with diesels- less maintenance and downtime, but more expensive to fix. Just something to think about.
Good luck and happy mowing!

[TGCummings]

Okay, so you're charging a good rate and making good money, but obviously not in a vacuum. Those pesky debts! (<---Voice of experience. ;) )

It sounds like you're putting plenty of work into the Jeep. If you're comfortable with it, stay with it a little longer. Spend a little bit of money on equipement, though, for peace of mind if nothing else. My suggestion:

Toro Proline 21" Self-Propelled Commercial Mower: $1000
Commercial Backpack Blower (I use a Stihl BR420): $450
Commercial String Trimmer (Stihl FS85): under $400

Your MTD, can be a reliable backup mower, something every LCO needs. Now, for under $2000, you've upgraded your entire operation ensuring everything runs smoother, quicker, and worry-free. With the Proline you can mulch or bag (I mulch everything, and these Toros are the best in the world at that, IMO).

You don't need a large commercial machine for the size of lawns you're doing, so you can immediately start saving for winter and that shiny, new truck. Good luck! :D

[marley]

loose the jeep, get a truck, you will be less stressed and probably more productive.

[NewbieOwner]

Originally posted by landscraper


You already stated that the bank won't lend to you, that should tell you something. OK- I won't make you guess, it should tell you that you are not in the position to go deeper into debt.



Actually, the banks concern was mostly due to the fact that I'm self-employed, in my first year. My debts are 100% paid off, I'm sitting 'pretty' right now (in my eyes at least)

That 10k$ I mentioned is actually whats in my Equipment fund, $ thats destined for purchases of tools I need to grow, or that will wear out. (Does not include operating $, payroll $, taxes, yadda yadda yadda) Up until now, I've been putting a high percentage of my earnings towards this fund. Knowing I'll need more equipment in the very near future.

Originally posted by TGCummings

Okay, so you're charging a good rate and making good money, but obviously not in a vacuum. Those pesky debts! (<---Voice of experience. :) )


Debts are now behind me, friday the nastiest of the visa bills came... And it now says Minimum payment 0.00$ The rest have said that for a few weeks now...

You guys are evil, now I'm wondering where my gas card bill is! :confused: Ah well, good thing I remembered now...

You guys are right, I'm not really interested in going into major debt (2002 1ton dually diesel is out of the question), but at the same time I know I'm going to need a new(?er) truck. And some better equipment... Which is why I've largely waited until now to ask. At this point I've got the $ in the bank to start looking very seriously at equipment purchases...

TGCummings:

Thanks for the advice for equipment, I probably will order a BR400/420 this week. I'll probably go with the Echo SRM2400 for a trimmer tho. I'm not a big fan of stihl trimmers, unless their weight has dropped drastically in the last 2-3 years. Maybe a roadtrip to the Echo dealer is warranted, maybe one of the Echo multi-attachment trimmers would fit the bill, save me a few $ on other tools I was planning to buy anyway.

Andrew

[Russo]

Glad to read that follow up post, Andrew. So many folks spend spend spend right into a big hole to get a business going.

I'm still humpin my day job so I'm celebrating on the outside for you, but I'm jeleous on the inside. Keep the dream alive for all of us dayjobbers.

[NewbieOwner]

Originally posted by landscraper
Glad to read that follow up post, Andrew. So many folks spend spend spend right into a big hole to get a business going.

I'm still humpin my day job so I'm celebrating on the outside for you, but I'm jeleous on the inside. Keep the dream alive for all of us dayjobbers.

Yeah, I've been tempted trust me... After working 9 hours, then going out for another 5-6 on my own... It's been rough going, most of the time I was wishing for a self propelled mower. Should have invested some $ in coffee futures :D I probably made them soar! (BTW, you can get 12v coffee makers for your truck... You have no idea how much $ they save you!)

All I can suggest for going FT, is to keep your prices high, your standards higher... And plug away at it... Look for a niche market! For me, there is noone in town who does trees... Lots of black knot around here, not hard to sell pruning work!

Keeping your standards high can cost you $. I'm ashamed to admit it, but I ended up going out and renting a edger more than a few times this spring because I couldn't get the edge along a front walk straight and neat w/ the trimmer (Thankfully the rust has been worn off) But at the same time, those nice straight edges got the neighbours attention! I might have made less $ on that job, but at least it was done right, and I had the use of the edger for the rest of the day...

Andrew

[ProSeasons]

New?? No no no! I never said new. I said diesels are nice. Especially the LONGEVITY and DURABILITY factor. Go back and read post from Brickman Lawn Care and Scott's Turf. We are hinting that diesels make great USED trucks. 3/4 ton if you please. And you live in Canada? Dude, get one with a nice 8 or 9 foot straight blade (easy to maintain and cheaper) for the occasional snowfall and along with that winter job at the Home Depot or whatever you'll be raking it in! Go used and go 3/4 ton with an 8 foot box and the money you'll save and earn will be substantial.:D

[NewbieOwner]

Originally posted by ProGreen
New?? No no no! I never said new. I said diesels are nice. Especially the LONGEVITY and DURABILITY factor.

! Go used and go 3/4 ton with an 8 foot box and the money you'll save and earn will be substantial.:D

Ok :) Yeah, no-one said new :) I should know better by now than to Assume...

I don't need any lectures on diesels... I know the advantages well! I love oil burners (excuse the old nickname)

At the same time, the older diesels aren't well known for their reliability. 6.2 chevs are iffy over 200,000... Old Cummins 5.9s Are expensive and hard to find. Ford...Ugh :) Actually the int'l 6.9s weren't too bad, but its still in a ford :D

Finding one in my price range gets tough, done a little looking, there is a 89 Dodge D200 Cummins 4x4 that would drain the bank but I'll go look tonight.

But you bring up a good point... Off-season, I need to start thinking and planning for that...

Andrew

[ProSeasons]

Really hard to find, huh? Theyre all over down here. I'll go look around. Theres 3 of them down the street here. What's your price range? My wife and I would only need 1/2 of an excuse to load your new rig on a trailer and bring it to you. God, I love Canada.....

[JimLewis]

Without reading the mass of posts already made, here are my suggestions...

I'd first buy a good running, used truck. You can find good deals out there if you look. All of our trucks are 1972 Chevy Long Bed 3/4 ton pickups. It's kinda become our trademark. I find these in good mechanical shape (usually with a recent rebuild) but an ugly body (paint fading, primer showing, etc.) and then we paint them and make them look sharp. Costs me usually $1500 - $3000 for the truck and another $1000 for a paint job and we're good to go for a few years with that truck. Plus, repairs are simple. Doesn't get any simpler than a Chevy 350 engine.

You don't have to go with trucks THAT old. I am just making a point. I also bought a really nice 1988 Ford Pickup a year and a half ago for $800 (See Pic. Here (http://www.cybcon.com/~jimlewis/ford.jpg)). I painted it, put some new tires and wheels on it and later traded it in on my new truck (http://www.cybcon.com/~jimlewis/newtruck.JPG) for $5,000. Point is, there are good deals on used trucks. Just make sure the engine is good. All other repairs are minor.

Then I'd save up and start replacing equipment.

p.s. You mentioned pruning - if you are going to be doing pruning PLEASE [if you haven't already] do yourself and your clients a huge favor and read up on proper pruning methods. I'd say 80% of the LCOs out there prune things totally wrong. Get a few good pruning books and study study study!

[Toroguy]

I agree with the used truck position. Like mowers, have a plan in place in case...I have a backup vehicle if my used truck needs repair.

I like jimlewis's $800 truck with the new paint, if your handy paint it yourself also.

Winter work, yes you should have a plan.

[Runner]

Jim has the right idea, and your wife sounds like one smart cookie! Shop around, and DON'T be sucked into cosmetics! Nice shiny paint on a used truck being sold will NOT get you down the road! Look at the mechanicals, first. Good luck!

[Tony Harrell]

Look into leasing a new truck for two years. You can prepay all or part of it with your cash. I would prepay about $5000 of the lease so the payment would be minimized and I could still have a cushion in the bank. Lease rates are negotiable just like the purchase prices. The last thing you need is a broken down vehicle. Lease=gas and go.

[Runner]

...And turn it back in in two years, pay your penalties, and have nothing that you just spent all that money on.

[Tony Harrell]

Think past what you're missing by not ownng it. Think of it as the USE of a new, dependable vehicle every 2-3 years with no long term obligations and no HUGE repair bills. It might even make better business sense "DEPENDING" on your situation. Heck, I wish I could lease a new ZTR every 2 years and not have any repair bills. I really don't want to OWN a mower with 3-6000 hours on it, I'd rather be turning one in wih 3-6000 hours for a NEW one.

[maple city]

It sounds like you're right where we were when we started. We also used the peice of JUNK weedeater blower. I have kicked it down the street on a few occasions.

In my oppinion, the essentials:
21" HONDA commercial push mower ($1000.00, but no worries, excellent machine)
Commercial trimmer and backpack blower. People choose different brands. If you stay with Echo, Stihl, Husqvarna, you'll be OK.
Good RUNNING (maybe not looking) 3/4 ton pick up truck.

The mower, trimmer, and blower will run under 2000.00, and you will not have to worry about their performance. They will start right up and cut your work time way down.

We bought our first workhorse truck (looked awful) for 3500.00 this included a plow. There were minor problems, but it got us through 2 years. We still have her as a back-up, but she's retired. A 1990 F-250. You may have to do this until you can afford to get a better truck.

This year we were able to get a 1997 GMC with a brand new plow. I have never worried about making the payment because we work all winter plowing. I did not finance it until I had a good commercial plowing account to insure I was able to make the payments.

The best advice is to buy as you can afford to, a little at a time. You have to do your best to make do in the mean time.

I don't know how the weather is in your area, but I make a lot of money on leaf jobs in the fall and plowing in the winter, so that keeps us going. You do need to think about the winter thing now, it'll be here before you know it.

Good luck!