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View Full Version : Do youre dealors rev the hell out of youre stuff too?!!


Goetso
12-14-2009, 05:36 AM
Just wondering if its a common practice for all dealers across the board to show you the starting procedure on youre new $200-$700 2 stroke power equipment, and to rev it up to its limit. I cant think of any thing that makes me want to smack a guy more then when this happens. And its ALL THE TIME! What is the point? I have worked in a snowmobile dealership before and I NEVER did this to a new engine. I know some guys dont think its a big deal, but it can harm things. Both my stihl and echo dealers are notorious for doing this. I am tempted to contact the corporations and file a complaint. Anybody else have any info or experience related to this annoying and potentially expensive practice?:mad::nono:

AL Inc
12-14-2009, 06:32 AM
I've been in this business since 1982, I don't need anyone to show me a starting procedure for a two cycle engine. You could always say, thanks, I know how to start it, and walk out with your machine.

GravelyNut
12-14-2009, 07:20 AM
Just wondering if its a common practice for all dealers across the board to show you the starting procedure on youre new $200-$700 2 stroke power equipment, and to rev it up to its limit. I cant think of any thing that makes me want to smack a guy more then when this happens. And its ALL THE TIME! What is the point? I have worked in a snowmobile dealership before and I NEVER did this to a new engine. I know some guys dont think its a big deal, but it can harm things. Both my stihl and echo dealers are notorious for doing this. I am tempted to contact the corporations and file a complaint. Anybody else have any info or experience related to this annoying and potentially expensive practice?:mad::nono:
And if you run it and find at high speed it misfires, you'd be complaining to the dealer right away. No harm is done to your engine as it isn't the first time it has been run. And not running them at high speed is one of the worse things you can do to an engine as it causes carbon buildup from unburned oil due to the engine not getting up to temp.

Turf Dawg
12-14-2009, 07:32 AM
I usally go pick up new handhelds in my wifes Excursion, so I tell them not to put gas in them. I just fuel them and start them up when I get home. If it bothers you that much then why do you let them start them? BTW, I do not care if the dealer starts them up, but I would just rather they left them dry and unstarted so I do not stink up my wifes ride.

dishboy
12-14-2009, 07:54 AM
I've been in this business since 1982, I don't need anyone to show me a starting procedure for a two cycle engine. You could always say, thanks, I know how to start it, and walk out with your machine.

That proves nothing, what if you have been scoring pistons for 27 years!

ALC-GregH
12-14-2009, 08:09 AM
That proves nothing, what if you have been scoring pistons for 27 years!

I doubt that is happening. These engines are designed to be revved all the time.


As for the OP. Let me get this right. Your going to complain to corporate about your dealer revving your little handheld engine because you "think" it's not good for the engine? This is a joke right?

dishboy
12-14-2009, 08:13 AM
I doubt that is happening. These engines are designed to be revved all the time.


As for the OP. Let me get this right. Your going to complain to corporate about your dealer revving your little handheld engine because you "think" it's not good for the engine? This is a joke right?

I believe it prudent to run a fresh engine at part throttle at least until it reaches operating temperature. How many years have you gotten out of your trimmers?

JB1
12-14-2009, 08:18 AM
Just wondering if its a common practice for all dealers across the board to show you the starting procedure on youre new $200-$700 2 stroke power equipment, and to rev it up to its limit. I cant think of any thing that makes me want to smack a guy more then when this happens. And its ALL THE TIME! What is the point? I have worked in a snowmobile dealership before and I NEVER did this to a new engine. I know some guys dont think its a big deal, but it can harm things. Both my stihl and echo dealers are notorious for doing this. I am tempted to contact the corporations and file a complaint. Anybody else have any info or experience related to this annoying and potentially expensive practice?:mad::nono:


yeah, I'd file a complaint too, no telling what else he does.

ALC-GregH
12-14-2009, 08:41 AM
I believe it prudent to run a fresh engine at part throttle at least until it reaches operating temperature. How many years have you gotten out of your trimmers?

10 years.

Goetso, simply tell him you don't want them to start any new equipment when you buy it. I usually start any new stuff I get myself. Problem solved.

Greg78
12-14-2009, 08:41 AM
.........................

ALC-GregH
12-14-2009, 08:50 AM
That's OK Greg. 2010 will be it's 11th year. Now that was not all daily use. The last 2 years have been daily use during the season.

I agree with Dishboy on initial start up on any engine that's brand new. I raced R/C cars for 15 years. I broken in a couple hundred .12ci to .21ci 2 cycle racing engines where it's VERY important to break in the engine properly if you want it to last.

topsites
12-14-2009, 09:17 AM
I've been in this business since 1982, I don't need anyone to show me a starting procedure for a two cycle engine. You could always say, thanks, I know how to start it, and walk out with your machine.

Yeah, just tell them you're good, what I do, then they don't even put gas in it.
Granted you have to tell them this first thing, but then you get a brand new machine like it's supposed to be.

Keep in mind you'll be back at the dealer's if you can't get it started LOL

grassman177
12-14-2009, 09:23 AM
we by them dry in the box and do it all ourselves. we have gotten some that have started them and adjusted them supposedly, but never saw a difference in any that they ran better or worse than ones straight out of the box

WHIPPLE5.7
12-14-2009, 11:24 AM
I used to work at a Husky dealer and when I would sell saws, trimmers, etc I would start the machine to check for proper function but I would never rev WOT. I know the factory starts them too but I always let a new engine run for a few minutes before the extreme RPMs. The owner of the shop would hit WOT on a new piece as soon as the engine started but who am I to tell him what to do.

corey4671
12-14-2009, 11:30 AM
You honestly think the first time these machines have been started is when the dealer gets them? I highly doubt that. Like was earlier, I'd rather have the dealer start it and put it through its paces than to wait and get on the jobsite and find all the bugs with it when I have a full day lined up.

unkownfl
12-14-2009, 02:04 PM
The really said part is when the dealer does this and the blade on the edger doesn't spin. Then he gives it to you and says here you go. I drove about 30 mins to a job started it up and the blade didn't move.

On the subject of revving it to the moon on initial break in it is normally the best way to seat the rings and will give you the best seal of the life of the engine. How do you think every race team breaks there engine in. If its not right its going to come apart no matter how you break it in.

dishboy
12-14-2009, 02:27 PM
The really said part is when the dealer does this and the blade on the edger doesn't spin. Then he gives it to you and says here you go. I drove about 30 mins to a job started it up and the blade didn't move.

On the subject of revving it to the moon on initial break in it is normally the best way to seat the rings and will give you the best seal of the life of the engine. How do you think every race team breaks there engine in. If its not right its going to come apart no matter how you break it in.

Modern honing techniques have done away with those wise tales, and every owners manual out there would disagree with you.

White Gardens
12-14-2009, 02:30 PM
I bought a BR550 a couple of weeks ago and the dealer told me to read the manual on engine break-in. Luckily they are smart enough to know better.

Basically Stihl states that initially, you need to let it warm up the same amount of time you expect to use it when you first use the machine.

I went ahead and let the thing idle for 30 minutes before puttin the screws to it.

unkownfl
12-14-2009, 02:33 PM
Modern honing techniques have done away with those wise tales, and every owners manual out there would disagree with you.

LOL modern honing techniques please explain. Now if you were to say modern materials thats a different story.

dishboy
12-14-2009, 02:41 PM
LOL modern honing techniques please explain. Now if you were to say modern materials thats a different story.

You don't think a computer and a robot can't do a more precision hone job than a dude with a handtool?

unkownfl
12-14-2009, 02:43 PM
I don't think a dude and hand tools has honed factory cylinder walls this century.

a plus bob
12-14-2009, 03:15 PM
When I bought my new Husqvarna saw the dealer reved it till I thought it would blow must be somthing to it because they all seem to do it!Plus you get the first tank of gas free :p

Kennedy Landscaping
12-14-2009, 03:41 PM
I normally don't care if they start it. Like a plus said, first tank free haha.

Cummins343
12-14-2009, 03:45 PM
I really don't care about what they do. I'll let them run the rpm's as high as they will go. I've been using the same FS-90's for the last three years. It doesn't hurt them.

Kennedy Landscaping
12-14-2009, 03:54 PM
I really don't care about what they do. I'll let them run the rpm's as high as they will go. I've been using the same FS-90's for the last three years. It doesn't hurt them.

Yeah, I let em run em as high as they care to. The way I look at it, if something goes wrong at high rpms or something its gonna fall back on them. Probably wouldn't get much traction with the issue but in all honestly I really don't think it makes a difference.

Cummins343
12-14-2009, 04:48 PM
Yeah, I let em run em as high as they care to. The way I look at it, if something goes wrong at high rpms or something its gonna fall back on them. Probably wouldn't get much traction with the issue but in all honestly I really don't think it makes a difference.Exactly! If they pop the motor when their runnin them at high rpm's then their payin for it and the problem is fixed.

Tharrell
12-14-2009, 07:17 PM
I've been around 2 strokes all my life. I cringed the first time I experienced that WOT thing.
I think the dealers want to get the machine set and make sure it runs before it goes out the door.
I can see revving a cold CR500 engine after starting it up!
If it survived the loading up, it would be kinda frightening. Tony

polerpoker
12-14-2009, 07:58 PM
The dealer is the last kind sole my two stroke will meet...

Think Green
12-14-2009, 09:38 PM
Back in the 80's our old dealer's would always start the machinery and did the resets right then.......out of sight. We were told that the manufaturer settings were of above sea level and needed to be done. He never hit the throttle full blast!!! It wasn't necessary!!
Our new dealer's always service the equipment that they sell. Not all machines are set one way for all locations and climates. The mechanics will take you back there with them so you can watch!!! I could care less about the Insurance Signs in the mechanics area........We buy enough equipment from them!! Anyway, letting go of the irrelevancy of my post, the machinery is in climate controlled atmosphere's and it isn't necessary to rev em up to show what they can do................hell we aren't cutting grass inside the showroom floor. I believe that anything cold should warm up before you run it at full RPM's. Everything deserves a little foreplay!!!!!?????
It is all a matter of personal preference..............we have purchased equipment before and didn't have it serviced first.........got to the jobsite and the units wouldn't stay running. Whatever makes us all feel better........do it! I know that we all have been burned by the dealers and manufacturers or we wouldn't be on here griping about the what if's!!!!

IF they don't prep the equipment before it leaves the dealer...........then it is in your hands. IF they do it first and break it.........then it is their baby now!!!!

I have said it before in other posts........................start it before you leave the dealer...........make sure it runs like a top!!! No refuting anything afterwards!!!

SILVERSTREAK INC
12-14-2009, 10:16 PM
have you ever gotten a new engine from kohler? it doesnt require a break in, the tolorances and materials are much closer so its not necessary for rings to "seat"

i could see if it was a pressure lubricated system such as a car motor or something, but a 2 stroke weedwacker...theyre already lubed when leaving the factory, so as long as you have your mix right, theres nothing to be worried about.

wimpy
12-14-2009, 10:17 PM
People can have preferences all they want but the fact is it doesn't harm the equipment to run WOT. If you take a machine out the box and run it you have to go WOT to check the settings and make sure it's hitting the correct lows and highs, and set it at the correct settings. Running it WOT for long periods of time under no load is when you get problems. Doing it for 10 second intervals has no detrimental affect whatsoever.

polerpoker
12-14-2009, 10:44 PM
have you ever gotten a new engine from kohler? it doesnt require a break in, the tolorances and materials are much closer so its not necessary for rings to "seat"

i could see if it was a pressure lubricated system such as a car motor or something, but a 2 stroke weedwacker...theyre already lubed when leaving the factory, so as long as you have your mix right, theres nothing to be worried about.


Kohler breaks their engines in at the factory, and Kohler uses a pressure lubricated system, hence the oil filter.

Think of it like this, you crank it up (2 Stroke) and pin it wide open, the piston which is small heats up really fast and expands, the cylinder does not heat up so fast as it is larger and has cooling fins, anyways its larger, so the piston expands from the heat and rubs against the cylinder before it has a chance to warm up.

Cold seizures happen allot on liquid cooled two strokes for the same reason, you need to warm up your motor before letting it rip.

Dealers dont adjust carbs anymore because carbs the have plastic limiter caps on the air fuel screws, and it is frowned upon by the manf. and the EPA for anybody to remove them.

South Florida Lawns
12-15-2009, 12:51 AM
To the OP, ur crazy. revving it off the shelf won't do squat. Back when I was young and dumb I bought a fs85 never broke it in reved it out in my garage with thrill. 10 years later I still got that trimmer, sees work everyday and it never missed a beat.

Richard Martin
12-15-2009, 03:49 AM
Which of these pistons would you rather have in your engine? Both pistons have roughly the same number of hours on them but they were broken in 2 seperate ways. One piston was in an engine that was run hard right out of the box. In other words when it was brand new. The other piston was broken in according to the instructions in the manual.

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb56/RMartin631/mower%20stuff/BreakInF3Pistons.jpg

This is not my picture and I will reveal it's source shortly.

unkownfl
12-15-2009, 10:19 AM
Which of these pistons would you rather have in your engine? Both pistons have roughly the same number of hours on them but they were broken in 2 seperate ways. One piston was in an engine that was run hard right out of the box. In other words when it was brand new. The other piston was broken in according to the instructions in the manual.

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb56/RMartin631/mower%20stuff/BreakInF3Pistons.jpg

This is not my picture and I will reveal it's source shortly.

I don't think 2 stroke pistons have valve reliefs. But I know the rear piston was broke in hard while the front piston was babied. Those looked to be forged pistons as well.

unkownfl
12-15-2009, 10:38 AM
Kohler breaks their engines in at the factory, and Kohler uses a pressure lubricated system, hence the oil filter.

Think of it like this, you crank it up (2 Stroke) and pin it wide open, the piston which is small heats up really fast and expands, the cylinder does not heat up so fast as it is larger and has cooling fins, anyways its larger, so the piston expands from the heat and rubs against the cylinder before it has a chance to warm up.

Cold seizures happen allot on liquid cooled two strokes for the same reason, you need to warm up your motor before letting it rip.

Dealers dont adjust carbs anymore because carbs the have plastic limiter caps on the air fuel screws, and it is frowned upon by the manf. and the EPA for anybody to remove them.

A piston also has a ring around it. A piston does not fit into a cylinder tight. I have never heard of a cold seizer or what you speak of because of improper warm up procedures. I don't think you know that a 2 stroke idles at almost 3000 rpms. If a pistons seizes into a cylinder it has nothing to do with it being revved up under normal mowing weather.

WHIPPLE5.7
12-15-2009, 10:51 AM
unknownfl, you have a good eye for detail. I used to run 5.0 Stangs myself. For those who are still in the dark here 2 stroke piston failure is 99/100 a result of too much heat and contact friction. This comes from a result of lack of lubrication in most cases. Did you know that you should never run them out of fuel because the last few seconds that engine is running its pretty with no lube at all. If you choose to run them dry for winter you should pull the air cleaner and spray a high quality lube directly on the piston thru the opened carb butterfly. Hobbyist with model airplanes and cars do this with the 2 stroke nitro engines religiously after every usage.

Richard Martin
12-15-2009, 11:24 AM
I don't think 2 stroke pistons have valve reliefs. But I know the rear piston was broke in hard while the front piston was babied. Those looked to be forged pistons as well.

It doesn't matter what the piston came out of. And you are correct. The piston that is allowing all of the oil blow-by is the piston that was broken in according to the manufacturers instructions. The rear piston was run hard right out of the box. I'll take the rear piston.

BTW, they're Honda F3 pistons.

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

dishboy
12-15-2009, 06:09 PM
It doesn't matter what the piston came out of. And you are correct. The piston that is allowing all of the oil blow-by is the piston that was broken in according to the manufacturers instructions. The rear piston was run hard right out of the box. I'll take the rear piston.

BTW, they're Honda F3 pistons.

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

My objections to wot is not to a new motor, but to a motor that has not reached operating temp and the tuned a/f ratio stabilized.

Richard Martin
12-15-2009, 06:32 PM
My objections to wot is not to a new motor, but to a motor that has not reached operating temp and the tuned a/f ratio stabilized.

And I agree. At least let it temp stabilize a little first.

mdlwn1
12-15-2009, 06:41 PM
Racing engines do not get broken in slowly nor do they wait for operating temp to be ideal. I used to build hp 125 and 250 motocross engines. They were assembled with a light grease (not oil) Once started we would rev them them many times for about 30 seconds and shut them down before they got very hot.

topsites
12-15-2009, 08:10 PM
I do agree an engine should be allowed to settle in a good 5-10 seconds at idle,
maybe 15-20 and then 'drive' it kind of easy for the first few minutes
until it reaches some sort of temperature.

Doesn't have to be full hot, but just something other than room temperature.

At least that's what some car manufacturers recommend, and it's not just the engine,
the claim concerns all of the parts that could get brittle or fragile because of the cold.

I always let my engines warm up a little at a lower rpm setting as well, it's not that I
just let them sit for 1/2 hour idling but I don't run them WOT for the first few minutes.

A&B Lawn Care
12-16-2009, 01:17 PM
The really said part is when the dealer does this and the blade on the edger doesn't spin. Then he gives it to you and says here you go. I drove about 30 mins to a job started it up and the blade didn't move.

On the subject of revving it to the moon on initial break in it is normally the best way to seat the rings and will give you the best seal of the life of the engine. How do you think every race team breaks there engine in. If its not right its going to come apart no matter how you break it in.



My engine shop runs my Ump Stock Car engine between 2500-3500 RPM for 30 min. Then they drain oil & change filter before doing any high rpm\load pulls after rebuilds. So I would say not a good idea to run full bore on a new engine or a cold used engine period. Just my opinion.

supercuts
12-16-2009, 01:22 PM
i start my 2 strokes up from cold and rev them right up. i have never had a piston/ring failure. the only time i give them a chance to warm up is when its well below freezing for fall cleanups. my trimmer is 16 years old now and still runs brand new

"Do youre dealors rev the hell out of youre stuff too? "

the word you need is your

RonAyersMotorsports
12-16-2009, 01:38 PM
I always display new units to customers at full throttle, but this is also after I've run the unit and tuned it in the shop for two to three minutes at half throttle. Besides if it going to fall aparts what better time when your still at the dealership. We'd have no choice but to give you a new one. LOL

Richard Martin
12-16-2009, 04:40 PM
Besides if it going to fall aparts what better time when your still at the dealership. We'd have no choice but to give you a new one. LOL

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: