PDA

View Full Version : 2 ton and larger dump trucks with 4x4


rawtoxic
12-14-2009, 08:45 PM
I have a small landscape/hardscape business, most of my work is high-end residential jobs lasting a few weeks, needing lots of materials to remote mountain areas. I can think of at least 10 times I needed 4x4 in the last year for landscaping, plus my personal property and business home need 4x4 access 3-4 months out of the year. So I need a 4x4 no doubt. I am right between Eisenhower Tunnel and Floyd Hill in Colorado so I need some considerable power these are some of the longest and steeper grades in Colorado.

I have been watching Ford F550's for a few years and like the product but I don't really think I'm getting much more than a beefy one ton and don't think it will really be a sufficient upgrade. Same for the newer Dodge 5500 except I don't like newer trucks with emissons crap. I really think diesel trucks older than 2001 are the best.

So I am considering either a larger cab over or perhaps International w/DT466 I noticed one complete with a plow setup went on ebay for about 10K with only 45K miles. There are good trucks out there especially right now.

What type of MPG do these internationals get hauling and unloaded? Any cab over suggestions with my 4x4 limitation?

I have about 20K available don't need to spend it all my bank is willing to finance anything I find another 10K.

I can't make up my mind about what to actually DO!

Ok let's hear what you great minds think I should do.

Mowingman
12-14-2009, 09:03 PM
Keep an eye out for a 1960's - 70's dodge W500. These 2.0 -2.5 tonners are rugged, go anwhere trucks, that are very easy to maintain. I see them for sale on various Dodge Powerwagon forums, Ebay, and Craigs list every now and then. They usually have some rust issues on the body, but the drivelines seem to last forever.

Lawn Man Dave
12-14-2009, 09:20 PM
Those DT466's are very nice and I think get lik 12mpg unloaded (I have seen some threads on here about them and the MPG. Loaded is like 9 or less I think...

Before you decide on what you want look at the maintenance costs... the DT466 is nice and will last forever but the injector harness and other part's are pricey and need replaced every few 100k miles or so (info on here on that also if I remember right).

Those grades out there are crazy, my grandparents live just SW of Denver..... even near there on 70 some are nut's...... the signs are funny though.... "truckers, don't be fooled.. 7 more miles of steep grades".

My father-in-law lives jsut south of Fort Morgan (east side of the state north of 70) and drives a school bus on the side and used to drive a semi and still take the bus pretty far into the mountians in the winter......... he has some stories.... thats for sure.


Just remember the weight of the truck........... 4X4 does not matter if it sinks and get's stuck.

Gravel Rat
12-14-2009, 10:20 PM
The 4 wheeldrive on F-450-550 trucks are good for snow or loose but not soft ground. If the ground is soft these trucks sink my 2wd F-450 sinks like the titanic when I get into soft ground.

treemover
12-14-2009, 10:37 PM
find a pre 93 non electronic International 466. We get around 12 empty and 8 loaded. great trucks!

OhioMowerGuy
12-14-2009, 10:44 PM
You should look at a GM 4x4 5500. They are alot more of a truck than a Ford 550 in my opinion. Probably would be alot more cheaper than a newer international 4x4 truck too. Only thing I dont like is that GM doesnt make them trucks anymore

rawtoxic
12-15-2009, 09:15 AM
Thanks for all the responses, here is some thoughts for continued discussion.

Mowingman - I know those are great trucks (older Dodges), but I need something with more curb appeal, plus I am near the Port of Entry and those guys seem to pick on the old trucks more than the new ones in terms of inspections and fines. That just reminds me I have a bullshit DOT ticket to pay. (Extortion on the working man if you ask me) Also I am unsure they will have enough power for me to pull loads over the Ike Tunnel without problems. I really hate crawling 25MPH for 15 miles on the busy Interstate. I know you still get there etc but it SUCKS!

Lawn Man Dave- Thanks for the MPG stats those are better than our gas one tons do! Maintenance costs are a great consideration, another thing to consider is with the larger international the amount of repairs we can complete ourselves drops without upgrading tools etc. This truck would probably only get 20,000 miles a year on it maybe slightly more. Yes the grades are crazy I did have one near-miss with my brakes getting smoking hot pulling a way overloaded truck and trailer. Now I follow the speed rules posted for the trucks over 15tons and do better.

Gravel Rat - Most my issues with getting stuck are in shallow snow/ice with a grade, but one time when we were putting a retaining wall on a lake shore this Spring I managed to get a dump truck stuck in deep wet sand / mud. Excellent point made!

Treemover - What is the advantage to the Pre-1993 Internationals?

Ohiomowerguy - I love Chevy trucks but hate the styling of those 5500's, what is the reasoning for it to be superior to the F550? As for cheaper than the international I think there is actually a higher demand for the Chevy/Ford 2 tons so they have a higher price scale. I would consider both the Chevy/Ford Light Duty trucks where as a International is medium duty.

I am going to search for some threads on the International and learn more!

Thanks everyone!

Mowingman
12-15-2009, 11:19 AM
I get a magazine called Tree Trader. It is a magazine of ads from companies serving the tree trimming and timber industry. Many dealers list used 4x4 trucks, usually in a cab/chassis configuration.
The website is www.treetrader.com

tnmtn
12-15-2009, 11:19 AM
let me help answer for ohio mower guy. i have a 4500 4wd. first off the body style gives you great visibility to the corners as well as in front of the truck. try driving one and your appreciation of this might change. better than the ford is a coke/pepsi question. in my opinion it is, because it has the allison tranny which for me has been great. secondly the duramax has now proven itself to be a long lasting durable engine that provides as much or more HP/Torque than any of it's competition. couple this with a 5:13 rear end it pulls very well in the mountains i live in. Ford has i think a 4:88 rear end and similar 19.5" tires. maybe it's not much diffrence but for pulling heavy, every bit helps.
as far as cheaper than the International i'm sure there are examples that go both ways. there seems to be more GM/Chevys with 4wd than internationals on the road in my area. this would make me assume there are more parts as well for the GM. if you go with a 4500 size GM/Chevy they can be serviced at any GM/Chevy truck dealer. if you go 5500 then you must go to medium duty dealers for repair. i don't know much about international 4wd's exept that i have seen a few older ones with a marmon henderson 4wd system. like most aftermarket systems i can't see how it would be cheaper to repair. at the same time parts to repair it might need to be shipped. again this adds to downtime which means money not coming in.
i was in a similar situation over a year ago and went with the chevy. for me it has been a great decision. sorry to butt in mower guy.
good luck,

rawtoxic
12-15-2009, 11:47 AM
I will confirm that I have looked for 2 hours and found 2 x Internatl Dumps 4x4 for sale. So yes a 4500 would be an easier to find truck. I can't consider the 4500 because really with my beefed up one ton now I don't see much of a difference I mean the GVW's go up but really it's not going to be worth insuring and the up keep of another truck so close to the one I already have. That will just make my current truck a backup, I am looking to diversify and make myself more profitable at the same time.

My wife says I should scrap the idea of any new trucks, we need to save money to finish remodeling house. She thinks I should quit delivering our own materials all together for a year and depend on 3rd party shipping and pay them the $50-$85 an hour to do the trucking for us and compare it to our costs of doing in-house trucking. I think this is a good idea I just hate depending on other people for my business success. I can remember some instances where my guys are standing around for 3 hours because a delivery has not showed up yet. Or sometimes a logistical error happens and no delivery happens and a day is wasted we are typically making $700 - $1000 a day so these mistakes can be costly. 4 delivery problems annually resulting in unproductive days could have a price tag over $3000. My wife does not understand why I do everything myself, it leaves less room for error, making our business more profitable. I'd like to hear some opinions on this.... I reviewed our rough data for the past year and I performed at least 180 deliveries of material of 3 tons or more this does not include haul away debris and dump runs. Plus, I hate delivery drives sometimes they don't take into account that dumping a ton or two of material off the edge of asphalt takes us an hour to cleanup 3/4" rock from grass when they could have simply pulled forward more while dumping. The old adage, if you want something done right do it yourself applies here!

Please provide any links to International 4x4 dumps you know of for sale.

Thanks everyone!

Lawn Man Dave
12-15-2009, 03:19 PM
I think this is a good idea I just hate depending on other people for my business success. I can remember some instances where my guys are standing around for 3 hours because a delivery has not showed up yet. Or sometimes a logistical error happens and no delivery happens and a day is wasted we are typically making $700 - $1000 a day so these mistakes can be costly. 4 delivery problems annually resulting in unproductive days could have a price tag over $3000. My wife does not understand why I do everything myself, it leaves less room for error, making our business more profitable. I'd like to hear some opinions on this.... I reviewed our rough data for the past year and I performed at least 180 deliveries of material of 3 tons or more this does not include haul away debris and dump runs. Plus, I hate delivery drives sometimes they don't take into account that dumping a ton or two of material off the edge of asphalt takes us an hour to cleanup 3/4" rock from grass when they could have simply pulled forward more while dumping. The old adage, if you want something done right do it yourself applies here!


Agreed, I would be furious if I lost money because something got screwed up and nothing showed up or late....... not to mention with a larger dump/truck you can haul away a lot more stuff (weight) and make more money that way..... it helps expand what you can do.

If the truck breaks you can call up another company and get them to deleiver short notice... it may cost you but it will still show up.... if you don't have a truck and they don't show up then you are dead in the water.... or are left making many calls trying to find someone else...

johnnybravo8802
12-15-2009, 04:56 PM
Anytime you have to depend on someone else, they are going to let you down and, most of the time, sooner versus later. If you survive in a business, you have to do it yourself, period. Yea, my wife doesn't understand either.:rolleyes:

Petr51488
12-15-2009, 05:04 PM
Anytime you have to depend on someone else, they are going to let you down and, most of the time, sooner versus later. If you survive in a business, you have to do it yourself, period. Yea, my wife doesn't understand either.:rolleyes:

aint that the truth! Even if it costs you more at one time or another, as long as you satisfy the customer, you'll make your money back and then some.

OhioMowerGuy
12-15-2009, 05:06 PM
There was a pic on heavy equipment forums of a guy pulling his 953 cat track loader with a 4x4 GM 5500 dump. It wasnt even really squating, wasnt really legal either haha. I think a 953 weighs around 30k give or take a few thousand. Let me see a F550 do that. That told me that these trucks are tanks. Im not bashing fords either, I like the super dutys.

4 seasons lawn&land
01-03-2010, 02:41 PM
Why are these type of trucks so unpopular? Thousands of trucks on truck paper and the only 4x4's are F-550's. There are no used 4wd GM's, freightliners, or internationals anywhere. Those are the only ones I know of that even make 4x4 2 tons.

Lawn Man Dave
01-03-2010, 08:01 PM
Why are these type of trucks so unpopular? Thousands of trucks on truck paper and the only 4x4's are F-550's. There are no used 4wd GM's, freightliners, or internationals anywhere. Those are the only ones I know of that even make 4x4 2 tons.

From what I have read the single axle dump's don't carry enough (weight in the dump) to make it worth while so people just go to a dual axle or more.

Gravel Rat
01-03-2010, 08:42 PM
Most single axle dump trucks are not used much. In my area once you get above a F450-550 guys run tandem axle dumps. A single axle doesn't carry enough weight. A F-550 is used for a work truck and packing upto 3 yards of dirt.

4 seasons lawn&land
01-04-2010, 04:08 PM
Ive had over 2 yards of dirt in my 3/4 ton. I hope an F550 can carry more than 3. Those have a 19,500 GVW, thats double my truck.

Gravel Rat
01-04-2010, 04:17 PM
My F-450 with a 15,000lb gvw is loaded with 6600lbs that is 2.5 yards of gravel.

One Yard of gravel weighs 2500-3000lbs so 2 yards ranges 5000-6000lbs. There is no way you can get 2 yards of gravel in a pickup truck the box isn't big enough.

I have a 11.5 foot long by 8 foot wide with 10 inch sideboards on my flatdeck on my F-450 you can't get anymore than 2.5 yards. With 2 yards on the truck it is a good size lump of gravel.

4 seasons lawn&land
01-04-2010, 05:21 PM
well Im getting ripped off by more than one place then. Most times I have skid steers put in 2 buckets, 1 yard bucket... and my box is smaller than a stock one because it has a dump insert.

Once I had a 3 yard bucket of mulch dumped in but a good amount spilled over the sides.

Duffster
01-04-2010, 05:30 PM
My F-450 with a 15,000lb gvw is loaded with 6600lbs that is 2.5 yards of gravel.

One Yard of gravel weighs 2500-3000lbs so 2 yards ranges 5000-6000lbs. There is no way you can get 2 yards of gravel in a pickup truck the box isn't big enough.

I have a 11.5 foot long by 8 foot wide with 10 inch sideboards on my flatdeck on my F-450 you can't get anymore than 2.5 yards. With 2 yards on the truck it is a good size lump of gravel.

GR, 11.5' X 8' X 10"= 2.84 yards level.

My pick up box is about 3 yards.

4 seasons lawn&land
01-04-2010, 05:35 PM
He has a 10 inch side-board Added. That's on top of the 18" or so dump body.

Duffster
01-04-2010, 05:44 PM
He has a 10 inch side-board Added. That's on top of the 18" or so dump body.

I thought he said he had a flatdeck. :confused:

johnnybravo8802
01-04-2010, 08:27 PM
well Im getting ripped off by more than one place then. Most times I have skid steers put in 2 buckets, 1 yard bucket... and my box is smaller than a stock one because it has a dump insert.

Once I had a 3 yard bucket of mulch dumped in but a good amount spilled over the sides.
I have had skid steers put 2 yards in my truck plenty of times. If you have an 8' bed, then 2 yards will fit. Heck, an F-450 should hold about 5 yards on a 11.5' flatbed, with the capacity of a truck like that. If I had a truck like an F-450, I'd see the limits of that truck as often as I could. In fact, I test the limits of all of my equipment with safety and taking care of equipment in mind.

Gravel Rat
01-05-2010, 02:47 AM
I have a flatdeck not a mason dump. My deck has 2x10s as side boards they are not a true 10 inches.

The most I put on my F-450 is 3 yards that is heavy your looking at over 7000lbs.

S&S Outdoor Services
01-05-2010, 06:07 AM
We are looking at buying an old Army 6x6 5 ton dump (AM general M817). There are a few companies that fix them and go through them , fix all the problems and resell for around 20k. The place I found is in Oshkosh WI, they can be licensed for many states at 45,000 GCWR. If we do buy one, I figure another 5 grand to repaint, put some decent seats, radio and other comforts our government ignores. All the trucks they have for sale have about 50k miles on them and come with the Cummins 250 and 6 speed manuals. If you want something that will really get you through some nasty stuff, could be something to check out. They look pretty cool if they're repainted to suit your needs.

WWW.OshkoshEquipment.com/

Might not be anything close to what you're lookig for but I figured I'd throw it out there.

-Sam

4 seasons lawn&land
01-05-2010, 04:46 PM
Well those things are bad ass. Ill give you that but Im afraid theyre more of a novelty item than anything. You can get a LOT newer truck a LOT less beat with the same miles for 20K and in similarly rated tandem axle size.

Lawn Man Dave
01-05-2010, 04:52 PM
We are looking at buying an old Army 6x6 5 ton dump (AM general M817). There are a few companies that fix them and go through them , fix all the problems and resell for around 20k. The place I found is in Oshkosh WI, they can be licensed for many states at 45,000 GCWR. If we do buy one, I figure another 5 grand to repaint, put some decent seats, radio and other comforts our government ignores. All the trucks they have for sale have about 50k miles on them and come with the Cummins 250 and 6 speed manuals. If you want something that will really get you through some nasty stuff, could be something to check out. They look pretty cool if they're repainted to suit your needs.

WWW.OshkoshEquipment.com/

Might not be anything close to what you're lookig for but I figured I'd throw it out there.

-Sam


Before you buy listen to one going down the road in person......... those and the Deuces are LOUD....... as in everyone will hear you coming a mile away............ cruising down the road the saying goes "The duece is in stealth mode"... it is a joke because you hear it forever away....

They are great truck's but everyone in the neighborhood will be looking out the window to see what is coming.

If it is just for commercial stuff out in the middle of nowhere then it would be a great truck not to mention if you could get taller sides for the dump........ for off road jobs good luck getting one stuck with the right tires, check out the M917's hahaha. Other then thaat a nice dump truck would be better if you ask me.

Most people that have that stuff just have it to have it and take them to air show's and stuff.