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White Gardens
12-24-2009, 01:12 AM
If you were a sub-contractor and was going to use your N-loader with a 12 foot pusher box to clear snow from parking lots.

I know this is a snow question probably meant for Plow-site, but to me it's more of a standard operating rate for equipment usage.

I was thinking 100 bucks an hour give or take depending on the market.

Any thoughts.

RockSet N' Grade
12-24-2009, 07:14 AM
White gardens.......I just got the "snow bug" after avoiding it for years. I supplement the pushers/salters. We do haul offs. So, here is what I have learned so far: pushers get paid around here by the push. Each push is considered 2" of accumulation. Guys charge up to 28 cents a lb for salting and this seems to be their bread and butter. Xmas/New Years pays double rate. $100 an hour plus transport seems reasonable to me for commercial.....

J. Peterson Grading
12-24-2009, 08:52 AM
12ft box is clear, but how big of a loader? $100 per hour? How soon can you get to Iowa City?

A deicent price for a plow truck is $65 per hour (Truck with Plow) A loader with a 12ft box can push roughly 4 to 5 times the amount a truck can push, so take $65X4 or 5 and thats what a loader and a box should be making.

Me, I do 95% of my pushes by the push so on some of them I can make in excess of $300 per hour for a truck, as long as the driver isn't screwing around, loaders can make at least double to tripple that if the accounts are close by.

I do a handfull of hourly accounts, where each piece of equipment that is onsite is paid per hour that its there working. on this account I am running my PT60 and RC50 and lets just say, they are making me proud on the money end.

Biggest thing about snow is, its a CUT THROAT business. Companies will let a long time contractor go just to save a few bucks over a season. Quality service means little to most as long as the price is good.

To make real good money, you have to be willing to spend it to get it. I spend at least $50.000 per year just to get ready to plow each year, then spend another 20 to 30 during the season, getting more equipment for the rest of the season.

Its spend alot to hopefully make alot more.

J.

KTM
12-24-2009, 11:13 AM
12ft box is clear, but how big of a loader? $100 per hour? How soon can you get to Iowa City?

A deicent price for a plow truck is $65 per hour (Truck with Plow) A loader with a 12ft box can push roughly 4 to 5 times the amount a truck can push, so take $65X4 or 5 and thats what a loader and a box should be making.

Me, I do 95% of my pushes by the push so on some of them I can make in excess of $300 per hour for a truck, as long as the driver isn't screwing around, loaders can make at least double to tripple that if the accounts are close by.

I do a handfull of hourly accounts, where each piece of equipment that is onsite is paid per hour that its there working. on this account I am running my PT60 and RC50 and lets just say, they are making me proud on the money end.

Biggest thing about snow is, its a CUT THROAT business. Companies will let a long time contractor go just to save a few bucks over a season. Quality service means little to most as long as the price is good.

To make real good money, you have to be willing to spend it to get it. I spend at least $50.000 per year just to get ready to plow each year, then spend another 20 to 30 during the season, getting more equipment for the rest of the season.

Its spend alot to hopefully make alot more.

J.

Wow! Here in so Wi I would never be able to get $250 for a loader. There are lots of guys with loaders that just let them sit because you cant get enough moving snow. This is in a town of about 70,000 people. Everyone wants to pay less because they assume moving snow is easier on a machine than pushing dirt. So you spend 70k a year for snow equipment? are you including buying something like a skid that can be used all year around? You are right on the cutthroat part seams like contractors play musical chairs year to year on the bigger accounts.

White Gardens
12-24-2009, 11:50 AM
O.K. I'll break it down a little better.

I just picked up a parking lot to plow snow. In order to do this lot, I have to sub out the loader and box.

The box is available to me (there is also another one for sale) and I am either buying it or the owner of the loader is buying it.

He told me he wanted 100 an hour without the box, and 110 with the box. This gentleman is one of my Landscaping clients and about a week ago I was talking to him and said he would use his loader to help me with snow. I've been calling a few other operators in the area and that seems to be the going rate for the machine, and that seems to be what I'll pay him considering the details of the snow removal contract.

I think it's a shade bit cheap, but not by much. I'm kinda surprised sometimes how little people actually charge for equipment around here.If this guy is more than willing to help me out, then I might pay him a bit more if he moves quicker than anticipated. He is an owner/operator and spreads ag lime/fert/ and sprays chemicals for a local ag co-op. I really don't think he needs the money I just think he wants something to do in the winter.

Here is a link to a pic of the machine (stock photo, not actual) he has. I think it should do just fine. As far as I know, he has his Big-wheel floater truck and trailer to get the machine to town. I need to talk to him, but the pusher box will probably stay in the parking lot all winter and moved when the season is over.

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=160462&d=1251945263

KTM
12-24-2009, 01:14 PM
$100 hour for a 544 size loader is a cheap.

J. Peterson Grading
12-24-2009, 02:40 PM
No. Year round purchases are not included in my snow purchases.

This year is pushing $70,000, last year was about $35,000, year before that was something like 12 to 15,000.

As I get bigger, I tend to have to spend more to do it.

If this guy is serious about the loader pricing, then hire him.

How are you just now getting a contracto to plow a parking lot? most every other lot has now been contracted out for over a month now.

J.

dozerman21
12-24-2009, 03:02 PM
J- I have a lot that takes 5 hours on average (2"-5" accumulation) to push with a 3/4 ton truck with a 8'2" V-Plow, how long do you think it would take with a skid and 10 ft. pusher box? It's almost wide open except for a few light poles and and a few islands.

Also, how would a pusher box/skid do on a condominium complex where the driveways and streets both need cleared? Would I want a rubber edge box? I think it would work pretty good along with a truck.

J. Peterson Grading
12-24-2009, 03:27 PM
If its taking you 5 hours to push a lot with a truck, it needs to be done with a loader and pusher. I wouldn't even touch a lot like that size with a truck. No way.

A 10ft pusher will push 3 times what your v plow is pushing, so a safer bet would be to say you could move twice as muck snow with it, thus cutting your plowing time in half. But still in what I am assuming is a five acre lot, (@ 1 acre and hour with your set up) I would still run a loader with at least a 12ft box and get out of there in 1/3 the time.

A pusher in a condo complex kinda sucks. I would take a good look at a Kage system pusher for condo clearing. They are the best of both worlds, and are price fairly.

Plus they have a good video on thier website of what you want to do with one.

J.

dozerman21
12-24-2009, 03:38 PM
I have at least one other truck with me, so it's done quicker, but I know a pusher box would be better.

What kind of edge do you use on your pusher boxes? The most common boxes I see here are Mammoth, Pro-Tech, and Avalanche. I think I remember you saying you built your own box, but do you have any opinions on any of these? Thanks for the info.

White Gardens
12-24-2009, 05:43 PM
$100 hour for a 544 size loader is a cheap.

Ya, seems a little cheap, but like I said, operating rates around here baffle me sometimes. Seems like it's around 100 an hour for every piece of equipment you can think of from a mini skid up to a flippin HI-HO.

Ultimately, if he does a good job, and in plenty of time, then I'm going to pay him a little more. He's a nice guy, and is willing to help me out, so I'm going to pay it forward if I can.

White Gardens
12-24-2009, 05:50 PM
How are you just now getting a contract to plow a parking lot? most every other lot has now been contracted out for over a month now.

J.


Original guy bailed. Not sure if they went under or what. I'm guessing they did considering they were doing the lot for $375 for just a push at 2-4 inches.:hammerhead: That low-balling crap is what gets me every time I go to do a snow bid. Tons of it running rampant around here and driving down market value.

That's what got me on negotiations, that figure. It took some work to get it to an acceptable level to make money on the 2-4 inch range.

Here is the lot, now tell me who would do it for 375.

171949

J. Peterson Grading
12-24-2009, 06:29 PM
Since its a lowes, it should be a seasonal contract then. Not per push or per hour. They have a national property chain holding thier strings.

Anyway. the one here went for $13500, and I have hear of others (Places that get more snow) going for 19000 and up.

I would stick them with a seasonal price of 15000, (Late season discout, or your screw if I don't do it discount)

I also don't like the salt areas. Whos to prove where a slip and fall happen? The whole lot needs treated just to cover both your azzes. They need to know this.

J.

White Gardens
12-24-2009, 06:50 PM
Since its a lowes, it should be a seasonal contract then. Not per push or per hour. They have a national property chain holding thier strings.

Anyway. the one here went for $13500, and I have hear of others (Places that get more snow) going for 19000 and up.

I would stick them with a seasonal price of 15000, (Late season discout, or your screw if I don't do it discount)

I also don't like the salt areas. Whos to prove where a slip and fall happen? The whole lot needs treated just to cover both your azzes. They need to know this.

J.

Ya, I'm feeling that this gig is set up screwy to say the least. Something makes me wonder if it is going to add up or not. We'll see. I've also talked to some other contractors in the area and what I quoted and the numbers I came up with seem to fall in-line.

Thanks for the info.

Hanau
12-24-2009, 08:55 PM
I just had an idea. Possibly a good one.

What if you were to get 2 pushboxes and a backhoe.

Mount one pushbox to the front end loader and the other one to the hoe.

That way you could push and drag at the same time.

Just a random Bob idea.

White Gardens
12-25-2009, 04:07 AM
I just had an idea. Possibly a good one.

What if you were to get 2 pushboxes and a backhoe.

Mount one pushbox to the front end loader and the other one to the hoe.

That way you could push and drag at the same time.

Just a random Bob idea.

You've been drinkin haven't ya. :laugh:

If you were pushin a clean sweep then it would be worthless I would think. Now the better set-up would be to have a front assist tractor and loader, with a box on the front, and a box on the back with a three point hook-up.

Then when you get to the end of a narrow lane, just drop the back box and push backwards without turning around.

If you get a huge snow, take the box off the front to utilize the loader and still have the box on the back.

Probably would be awkward in the end though.

That's a random Nick idea.

White Gardens
12-25-2009, 04:13 AM
I also don't like the salt areas. Whos to prove where a slip and fall happen? The whole lot needs treated just to cover both your azzes. They need to know this.

J.

That was a photo I took to send to one of my suppliers. He is actually going to spread salt for me tomorrow if we get a dusting of snow. The outlined area was the area to concentrate on first with his first load if he doesn't feel he has enough the first time.

I've found a V-box spreader for sale, just need to get through this thing called Christmas and get a hold of the guy selling it. Nothing like a good holiday to keep me from doing business.

All in all, for getting the equipment and man-power together within 6 hours after the initial call for the job, I'm extremely happy.

" Always follow the whims of the great magnet, how stupid I was to defy him. "

Ozz
12-25-2009, 06:30 PM
I just had an idea. Possibly a good one.

What if you were to get 2 pushboxes and a backhoe.

Mount one pushbox to the front end loader and the other one to the hoe.

That way you could push and drag at the same time.

Just a random Bob idea.

Beilieve it or not, it could possibly work.. I think in you swung out and locked the boom outand slightly overlapped the boxes paths, It could possibly work. You'd have th be damn carefull with the rear box though. it you hit a bump and the box didn't come out as quick as the hoe...:dizzy: your boss will do this :realmad: then this::waving::waving:

mudmaker
12-25-2009, 07:41 PM
I would think you could run a 16' push on a 544 size loader. My 310 SG handles a 12' push well.

White Gardens
12-25-2009, 08:20 PM
I would think you could run a 16' push on a 544 size loader. My 310 SG handles a 12' push well.

The twelve is what is available for me to get on the fly. The operator of the 544 is actually wanting to buy it himself so he can use it around his farm property and some of the neighbors around him.

I've seen big loaders only use a 12 and in a big snow it can fill up quickly and so you would actually get a shorter run before you emptied the box. In tight places I wouldn't think that would work well when you are dictated by where you can put the snow. That and going down the road would suck as you would probable need to trailer the box to different properties.

Open lot though, probably no sweat with a 16 footer.

mudmaker
12-25-2009, 10:18 PM
Ya I don't think the law would look too favorably on a 16' box going down the road.