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View Full Version : Takeuchi TL240 vs Bobcat T650


bobcat_ron
12-30-2009, 08:45 PM
I don't really think this was fair, the Bobcat is a vertical path, if this was fair, it would be a T630, radius path loader, but what ever.
Courtesy of my Bobcat dealer after a sales rep flipped out when he saw a YouTube video of my Takeuchi:

Sam_French
12-30-2009, 08:56 PM
I used to be in business to business sales. In my opinion I would be very ashamed to send that type of material to anybody. I feel there is NO all around perfect machine. We all have different needs and demands. Thats why I DON'T brand bash.

To be honest I am very scared of Track Machines.

Happy New Year

Sam

ioilyouin
12-30-2009, 09:01 PM
Confidential- Do not Duplicate, Distribute, or Copy
I like it!

bobcat_ron
12-30-2009, 09:04 PM
There is some bit of truth in the PDF, Bobcat's loaders are better than they used to be, the M Series pins are much larger than they used to have, so they were obviously thinking about the CTL's.
But their "facts" about the rear twin idlers, the horsepower needed for the tracks to turn and the fact that they don't tell you how much engine displacement and size, not too mention the bull sh*t about cab visibilty, oh yeah, I'm really impressed. :nono:

mrsops
12-30-2009, 09:13 PM
There is some bit of truth in the PDF, Bobcat's loaders are better than they used to be, the M Series pins are much larger than they used to have, so they were obviously thinking about the CTL's.
But their "facts" about the rear twin idlers, the horsepower needed for the tracks to turn and the fact that they don't tell you how much engine displacement and size, not too mention the bull sh*t about cab visibilty, oh yeah, I'm really impressed. :nono:

Ron we both been in the new m series machine me and you both know that the visibility out of the machine is very very good and is definitely better then the tak machines..

The new m series bobcat machines are going to be tough to beat

Dirtman2007
12-30-2009, 09:59 PM
"The Takeuchi 2-spd is too slow in low range to be productive, yet in high range the machine is not able to do work."

Thats total BS, and I have a video to prove it.

stuvecorp
12-30-2009, 10:10 PM
I used to be in business to business sales. In my opinion I would be very ashamed to send that type of material to anybody. I feel there is NO all around perfect machine. We all have different needs and demands. Thats why I DON'T brand bash.

To be honest I am very scared of Track Machines.

Happy New Year

Sam

Not to pick on you or single you out, what do you not like about track machines? This could be a whole other thread I guess.

KTM
12-30-2009, 10:28 PM
So this is where the salesman get there info so they can act like they know what there talking about. I love talking to these people you can see right through the ones that have never ran equipment. Takeuchi is probably the #1 target now that the Koreans own BC. The only thing that I believe there right on is the height, yes over 7' sucks.

Omran&Turbo
12-30-2009, 11:32 PM
I don't want to get any one hier pissed off, but it does not matter what brand of the machine is !!as long as you take care of your equipments as long as they last (exclude equipment made in China :laugh: ) and at the end of the day as long you make $$ that all what matter, I don't care if you operate a shovel and a rake.:laugh: :laugh:
Happy new year.

Tigerotor77W
12-30-2009, 11:37 PM
Get a couple of these for Deere, Cat, and Case... can you do it, Ron? I know they're out there! Thumbs Up

I'll post some thoughts on this later on.

SellingIron
12-30-2009, 11:49 PM
So this is where the salesman get there info so they can act like they know what there talking about. I love talking to these people you can see right through the ones that have never ran equipment. Takeuchi is probably the #1 target now that the Koreans own BC. The only thing that I believe there right on is the height, yes over 7' sucks.



Cat is the Number #1 Target. The other brands for the most part are light years away from competing at this level..(Dealer Support, Sales Force,Service, Parts, Rental, Warranty, etc.)

AWJ Services
12-31-2009, 12:54 AM
I used to be in business to business sales. In my opinion I would be very ashamed to send that type of material to anybody. I feel there is NO all around perfect machine. We all have different needs and demands. Thats why I DON'T brand bash.

To be honest I am very scared of Track Machines.

Happy New Year

Sam

Without a track machine I would be sitting at home twiddling my thumbs this last year. Wheels are for tractors and lawnmowers. Real machines have tracks.:weightlifter:

AWJ Services
12-31-2009, 12:56 AM
Cat is the Number #1 Target. The other brands for the most part are light years away from competing at this level..(Dealer Support, Sales Force,Service, Parts, Rental, Warranty, etc.)

I agree if you look at the whole picture.
However Takeuchi is everyones competition in the CTL market even without dealer support, so what does that say about the quality of the machine?

Bleed Green
12-31-2009, 01:13 AM
I don't really think this was fair, the Bobcat is a vertical path, if this was fair, it would be a T630, radius path loader, but what ever.
Courtesy of my Bobcat dealer after a sales rep flipped out when he saw a YouTube video of my Takeuchi:

What did he say when he saw the Cat machine that you used to have?

stuvecorp
12-31-2009, 01:39 AM
I agree if you look at the whole picture.
However Takeuchi is everyones competition in the CTL market even without dealer support, so what does that say about the quality of the machine?

I don't think for all the love we give Tak's they are quite there yet, people seem terrified of them up here. What is so scary about them?

bobcat_ron
12-31-2009, 09:24 AM
What did he say when he saw the Cat machine that you used to have?

They flipped their wigs, total melt down, this time the arguments for the Bobcat being a better machine were- less moving parts and replacement costs on the undercarriage, better trade in/resale value, better service and customer care (wow, I never needed that) and they had a cheaper price tag, but I found out they always price out a foot/hand control machine, and once you add in the mandatory 5 year required warranty for the SJC option, Bobcat was still priced higher than a B Series Cat, and Cat has more reliable pilot controls.
But they didn't flip out as much, only because any thing they try to say to discredit the Takeuchi's, which is a brand they admit to being "built like a tank", they know damn well the lifting power is on video, and I can easily make more.

I have to drop in at my Bobcat dealer to get more hoses lengthened, I will ask them if they want to do a push off with a T180 and my TL130 and then try a T630.

bobcat_ron
12-31-2009, 09:26 AM
I don't think for all the love we give Tak's they are quite there yet, people seem terrified of them up here. What is so scary about them?

I dunno, but they are basic machines, no BS, no Ipod holders, built strong, built smart and they get something done.

Sam_French
12-31-2009, 10:55 AM
Hey guys

Just want to clear up a few things. Concerning CTL's. I am scared of them because.
I know so little about them. I probably have a pic of everybody's CTL on this site. Down the road I would like to spend some seat time on one.

Happy New Year

Sam

stuvecorp
12-31-2009, 12:12 PM
I dunno, but they are basic machines, no BS, no Ipod holders, built strong, built smart and they get something done.

I was going to trade the Mustang in a a 410 or 420 Case and the one would give me around 20 and the other was mid twenties. They acted like they would get cooties from it. I may go with a 120 size Tak now.

dozerman21
12-31-2009, 02:50 PM
I was going to trade the Mustang in a a 410 or 420 Case and the one would give me around 20 and the other was mid twenties. They acted like they would get cooties from it. I may go with a 120 size Tak now.

What do the 420CT's go for, and why would you trade a Mustang for a Tak?

YellowDogSVC
12-31-2009, 04:55 PM
Well, that proves it. Bobcat is the best. Period. Tak is over 7' tall, obviously, made for NBA stars, and the tracks come off when you have to increase the throttle to turn. :)

Oh, and one of the dumbest things I read was that you can't be productive at 4.7 mph? HUH? then what is the use of Bobcat speed selection software or CAT amics? I find it EXTREMELY helpful having a slug speed for a lot of tasks.

DeereMan85
12-31-2009, 05:14 PM
I like how they act like shifting a 2-speed is such a chore. I've never run a Tak, but I'm guessing it's just a button or trigger like most everyone else. Whew, must be really fatiguing to push a button all day like that!

AWJ Services
12-31-2009, 05:21 PM
I like how they act like shifting a 2-speed is such a chore. I've never run a Tak, but I'm guessing it's just a button or trigger like most everyone else. Whew, must be really fatiguing to push a button all day like that!

It is a trigger on the joystick. I actually run my TL140 in high most of the time and a reduced throttle setting to help save fuel. I go into low when doing heavy digging. No different than the 2 speed on the Deere CTL machines.

AWJ Services
12-31-2009, 05:32 PM
It's funny that my Tak only runs the track off on the front where there is a single flange idler?

DeereMan85
12-31-2009, 05:45 PM
It is a trigger on the joystick. I actually run my TL140 in high most of the time and a reduced throttle setting to help save fuel. I go into low when doing heavy digging. No different than the 2 speed on the Deere CTL machines.

That's what I mean--Bobcat tries to make it sound like it's a huge PITA to do.

It's funny that my Tak only runs the track off on the front where there is a single flange idler?

I thought the same thing--why do all the Cat guys upgrade to the dual flange if it's such a poor design? I've hardly ever seen a Deere run the tracks off, and I think it's because of the dual flange idlers and triple flange rollers.

AWJ Services
12-31-2009, 06:01 PM
I thought the same thing--why do all the Cat guys upgrade to the dual flange if it's such a poor design? I've hardly ever seen a Deere run the tracks off, and I think it's because of the dual flange idlers and triple flange rollers.

I have only ran mine off once because they where very loose and I got the machine on a slippery slope and there was a stump I did not see and all the weight of the machine was on the side of the downhill track at the front.

stuvecorp
12-31-2009, 09:17 PM
What do the 420CT's go for, and why would you trade a Mustang for a Tak?

It's a long complicated story. Not sure on the 420CT prices.

Junior M
12-31-2009, 10:21 PM
It's a long complicated story. Not sure on the 420CT prices.
the 420CT is a spectacular machine.. :cool2:

And Stu, why would you trade a mustang for a Tak? They are the same machine, arent they? :confused:

stuvecorp
12-31-2009, 10:36 PM
the 420CT is a spectacular machine.. :cool2:

And Stu, why would you trade a mustang for a Tak? They are the same machine, arent they? :confused:

I would like to sell the Mustang outright but I'm thinking of going down from the 130 size to the 120 size. If you remember my 'mini-skid' thread the closest machine is the 120 to what I want. The other option I am thinking of is a 420 with VTS, which is a apples to oranges I know. My real dilemma is I know I'm not putting the hours I need to justify a second skid but it is more a 'convenience' type deal.

Junior M
12-31-2009, 11:46 PM
I would like to sell the Mustang outright but I'm thinking of going down from the 130 size to the 120 size. If you remember my 'mini-skid' thread the closest machine is the 120 to what I want. The other option I am thinking of is a 420 with VTS, which is a apples to oranges I know. My real dilemma is I know I'm not putting the hours I need to justify a second skid but it is more a 'convenience' type deal.
I understand, but I know your moving towards a pick up and GN set up.

Wouldnt getting a 550 and GN before a "convienent" machine make more sense?

stuvecorp
01-01-2010, 12:42 AM
I understand, but I know your moving towards a pick up and GN set up.

Wouldnt getting a 550 and GN before a "convienent" machine make more sense?

The 550 is 'Priority 1'. I'm also keeping the Kodiak(as of like two minutes ago:confused:) and probably getting a 25,000# deckover so I could move both machines(whichever I may have). Stay tuned - it will likely change as the winter goes on.:)

Tigerotor77W
01-01-2010, 12:57 AM
So Ron -- nothing about Bobcat vs. the other guys? :(

bobcat_ron
01-01-2010, 09:32 AM
So Ron -- nothing about Bobcat vs. the other guys? :(

Nope, not yet.

Tigerotor77W
01-01-2010, 01:42 PM
Ah boo. I have a few questions about that comparison...

1) The breakout force tests show that the machines each have more lift force than tilt. This flies in the face of every other spec from every other manufacturer, including Bobcat's old numbers (for, say, the 963 or 863 or S250 or S300). Odd.

2) what is "push while lift" and "lift while push?" First you engage lift, then put the machine into forward (for push while lift)? If so, the latter test -- where Bobcat allegedly has a 44% advantage -- is actually very interesting. The number of times that a machine isn't doing both lifting/curling and still spinning its wheels to go forward is low, so this may be a really good representation of what a machine is capable of doing. That being said, there's no standard on how far the level was stroked during the "push" phase, so it's hard to establish a baseline.

3) Bobcat's 80" bucket weighs quite a bit less than Takeuchi's 76" with teeth. Interesting.

4) Pallet fork comparison would be neat for a Deere. I don't know what the M-series lift path looks like anymore. :(

5) The weight distribution comment -- equally-footed machines do require more power to turn than those really heavily biased toward front or rear, but I'm not sure that 3% will do that much. The heavier weight of the Takeuchi would make you feel it more than a 3% difference in weight distribution...

It's mostly as I'd expect for a comparison. Other manufacturers do the exact same thing. I'm actually pretty impressed by the breakout/ROC tests -- if they really did things according to ISO/SAE, that's a pretty thorough investigation. Well-done to the test engineers.

Sam_French
01-01-2010, 01:55 PM
I think you guys are giving that "manufactured" document way to much credit.

Have a nice day.

Sam

YellowDogSVC
01-01-2010, 01:57 PM
looking at the weight of the 75 hp machine, I'm real concerned about the weight for a 90 or 95 hp machine in the next frame size. Seems like Bobcat will awfully high in the weight to power ratios when the next frame size debuts.

Digdeep
01-01-2010, 01:59 PM
2) what is "push while lift" and "lift while push?" First you engage lift, then put the machine into forward (for push while lift)? If so, the latter test -- where Bobcat allegedly has a 44% advantage -- is actually very interesting. The number of times that a machine isn't doing both lifting/curling and still spinning its wheels to go forward is low, so this may be a really good representation of what a machine is capable of doing. That being said, there's no standard on how far the level was stroked during the "push" phase, so it's hard to establish a baseline.

Don't really know what Bobcat used as a baseline or reference but I know that the Takeuchi's breakout is diminished more than others while moving into a pile compared to others. I used to sell against this. I never could quantify the exact numbers but it was definitely noticeable so I guess is it nice to know that I wasn'tthe only one that noticed this.

bobcat_ron
01-01-2010, 03:17 PM
Just goes to show I guess, when sales are down, people will do anything, and I mean go as far as make false comparisions between machines to boosts sales.