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View Full Version : Can anyone tell me about slitseeding/slicer?


WHIPPLE5.7
01-02-2010, 11:49 AM
I have never seen one personally and I doubt there is one within 400 miles of me. I'm always looking for ways to get new work and have an edge over other guys and was thinking about offering this. I'mguessing it would be done in the spring? I do powerraking and aerating so I'm slicer seeding would be the last step if I did all three. Can anyone add to this. Thanks.

david shumaker
01-02-2010, 08:23 PM
I looked at the Lawn Solutions web site and a slit seeder would be nice to have, but I don't have enough reseeding business to justify buying one. From what I read on here, they do a better job than just aerating.

If reseeding, I just aerate and make plenty of holes. but aerating and using a slit seeder would give better results.

If you do alot of lawn renovations, it would probably pay to have a slit seeder.

Smallaxe
01-03-2010, 09:53 AM
Aeration makes a 2-3 inch deep hole, which isn't the recommended depth. Usually about 3-4 inches apart which is not the recommended width.

A slit seeder quickly plants at the recommended depth with the rows spaced as close as possible. It is definately an overkill if you are simply over seeding.

You do mostly your overseeding in the spring? So you do not use a CG pre-emergent?

cmlandscapeconstruction
01-03-2010, 09:59 AM
anyone on this site that has not checked out lawn solutions machine is missing out on the money, customer satisfaction and buisness expanding capabilites of this machine ive had mine for under 1 year and have increased my buisness expinecially i have over 300 to do for the 2010 season with little or no advertisement cost and i plan on another 300 before the season even starts. oh and mine are signed contracts=guaranteed work! dave if your out there i need a ride on!!!!!! chris

LawnSolutionsCP
01-03-2010, 01:23 PM
anyone on this site that has not checked out lawn solutions machine is missing out on the money, customer satisfaction and buisness expanding capabilites of this machine ive had mine for under 1 year and have increased my buisness expinecially i have over 300 to do for the 2010 season with little or no advertisement cost and i plan on another 300 before the season even starts. oh and mine are signed contracts=guaranteed work! dave if your out there i need a ride on!!!!!! chris


Chris, thanks for the feedback. Most people have no idea the impact that renovation work can have on a good LCO. Not only it is a huge money maker, but you will also get the annual contract for mowing, weed control, landscaping, etc...because the customer is going to go with who gives them results for their money. This service when done correctly has the largest WOW factor in the industry , it can really set your company apart and be the best marketing / advertising campaign possible.

I started Lawn Solutions from the profits made doing renovation work part time over a 2 year period. I took what I learned from doing part time renovations and made a machine that could make me more money in less time than what was currently on the market.

Would you be willing to share how the Turf Revitalizer has affected you customer retention, overall growth, and a lead-in for larger contacts? When coming from me (as an owner/sales person) people are skeptical that I'm just trying to sell equipment which is my intent, but my real intent is to teach how to grow your own business which in turn helps mine.

Have you looked at our 24" or 30" machines. They are monsters and very productive. If I were to get just one size, I would go with our new 24" model because it is only 35" wide (wheel to wheel) so it will go through almost all gates and it faster, wider, and more powerful than the 20" machine. But, if you have a 20" Turf Revitalizer already then I would look at a 30" unit to go with your 20" machine. Personally, I use a 30" machine on almost everything except where it won't fit. Kind of like getting a 48" mower when you have a 36" mower...the 36" always sits unless you have a gate that is too large for you 48" mower.

Thanks

David

JohnnyRocker
01-03-2010, 01:40 PM
I have never seen one personally and I doubt there is one within 400 miles of me. I'm always looking for ways to get new work and have an edge over other guys and was thinking about offering this. I'mguessing it would be done in the spring? I do powerraking and aerating so I'm slicer seeding would be the last step if I did all three. Can anyone add to this. Thanks.

It must not be very competitive in your area. Especially if you only seed in the spring, yet you still "have an edge" over the "other" guys. Too funny.

integrityman
01-03-2010, 03:07 PM
Whipples- the BEST time to overseed or complete a seed job is in the late summer or early fall. Being in Great Falls, I would suspect you would want to do your work in late august. Fall is the best time as the soil temps are warm, the air is cool at night. This "tells" the grass seed its time to grow! Overseeders work well installing the seed into the dirt; however, you still will need to apply some started fert and ensure the newly seeded area gets sufficient water.

As a word of advise, puchase/ use seed that will perform well in your climate AND in your individual application.

WHIPPLE5.7
01-03-2010, 06:17 PM
Ok. I don't think anyone does this at all here. The grass here is either all fescue or 50/50 with Kentucky blue. All I have experiance with is powerraking, aerating, and hydroseeding which pays good when you get the work but it is so tuff to sell people on it. I had a guy down the road from me who built a new home on 2 acres of land so minus driveway and house he had about 1.60 acres to plant grass in. I quoted him about .8 cents a square foot and warranty successful growth unless its determined that lack of watering caused failure. I followed up with him 3 times and kept blowing me off. Finally in July a Semi load of sod showed up and with the help of about 5 of his buddies they spent the entire weekend laying sod. He paid .28 cents a square foot for it and then never watered it so it died off by August and may never regrow but will likely fill in with weeds:hammerhead: Guys like this should be required by law to permanantly where ****** helmets. All I could think is what complete dumbsh*t.

xclusive
01-04-2010, 12:45 AM
Chris, thanks for the feedback. Most people have no idea the impact that renovation work can have on a good LCO. Not only it is a huge money maker, but you will also get the annual contract for mowing, weed control, landscaping, etc...because the customer is going to go with who gives them results for their money. This service when done correctly has the largest WOW factor in the industry , it can really set your company apart and be the best marketing / advertising campaign possible.

I started Lawn Solutions from the profits made doing renovation work part time over a 2 year period. I took what I learned from doing part time renovations and made a machine that could make me more money in less time than what was currently on the market.

Would you be willing to share how the Turf Revitalizer has affected you customer retention, overall growth, and a lead-in for larger contacts? When coming from me (as an owner/sales person) people are skeptical that I'm just trying to sell equipment which is my intent, but my real intent is to teach how to grow your own business which in turn helps mine.

Have you looked at our 24" or 30" machines. They are monsters and very productive. If I were to get just one size, I would go with our new 24" model because it is only 35" wide (wheel to wheel) so it will go through almost all gates and it faster, wider, and more powerful than the 20" machine. But, if you have a 20" Turf Revitalizer already then I would look at a 30" unit to go with your 20" machine. Personally, I use a 30" machine on almost everything except where it won't fit. Kind of like getting a 48" mower when you have a 36" mower...the 36" always sits unless you have a gate that is too large for you 48" mower.

Thanks

David

I just watch the video for the 9hp revitalizer on your website. I have a few questions about it. In part of the video you see no excess thatch but then towards the end you see excess thatch, if it leaves thatch what is the best way to clean the thatch up and will that disturb that seed that was just put down? What is the cost of the product as well?

Smallaxe
01-04-2010, 08:15 AM
... and then never watered it so it died off by August and may never regrow but will likely fill in with weeds:hammerhead: Guys like this should be required by law to permanantly where ****** helmets...

I agree. :laugh:

Maybe I can make that an ad campaign. My business logo and contact information on a pre-cut and pre-tabbed cardboard, that rolls into a dunce-hat, and say to people, - "Here,,, a gift for your neighbor... Tell him it is the hat to wear in his lawn."
When they think its for the neighbor, they don't get offended... :laugh:

There are places I drive by season after season, that really should have a talk with somebody, but I know they're not interestted in spending money on their lawn. And won't even take advice that saves them money.

LawnSolutionsCP
01-04-2010, 09:56 AM
Whipples,

I used to have customers like that....or who said I was going with company X because they were cheaper. Next summer when their lawns looks worst than all the neighbors send them the quote again.

Often times they will call and ask for it do be done correctly.

I would be leery about having him water correctly since he couldn't even water sod that he spent a small fortune on.

Put the seed in the ground 1st week in September.

David

LawnSolutionsCP
01-04-2010, 12:15 PM
I just watch the video for the 9hp revitalizer on your website. I have a few questions about it. In part of the video you see no excess thatch but then towards the end you see excess thatch, if it leaves thatch what is the best way to clean the thatch up and will that disturb that seed that was just put down? What is the cost of the product as well?

The thatch will vary based on how much is on a lawn, but normallly you would just leave it down. About 5% of the time does it require to clean up the thatch prior to putting down seed. Some thatch will help retain moisture and shade the seed, but too much is not good either.

LawnSolutionsCP
01-04-2010, 12:16 PM
There is also a video on our website for rental customers that talks about thatch when seeding.

xclusive
01-04-2010, 12:37 PM
There is also a video on our website for rental customers that talks about thatch when seeding.

Yes I see what you are talking about in the 6hp video. What is MSRP of the 6hp and 9hp models?

Five Diamond Lawns
04-10-2010, 12:48 PM
Why is the seed being put down before the slit is made????? How will it get in the slices??? Won't it just end up in the thatch? Other slice seeders I've seen have hoppers in the back.

LawnSolutionsCP
04-10-2010, 01:18 PM
It is all about the ability to create seed to soil contact and our machine do it very well.

Ask for results, performance, even germination, productivity feedback. There are hundreds of guys on here running them to include a lot of the top golf courses in the U.S.

David
Posted via Mobile Device

EastCoast
04-10-2010, 11:29 PM
I purchased the "Turf Revitilizer" strictly for home use and I am totally amazed at the results. I thatched my lawn three weeks ago, bagged all the thatch with my lawn mower, then seeded the next day with the machine. As of today my lawn looks amazing... the lawn is full and thick.

The machine is amazing and David, keep up the great work!
Posted via Mobile Device

RABBITMAN11
04-10-2010, 11:37 PM
I agree, I use it alot don't know why I didn't get it sooner!
Posted via Mobile Device

SeedPro
04-11-2010, 12:04 AM
anyone on this site that has not checked out lawn solutions machine is missing out on the money, customer satisfaction and buisness expanding capabilites of this machine ive had mine for under 1 year and have increased my buisness expinecially i have over 300 to do for the 2010 season with little or no advertisement cost and i plan on another 300 before the season even starts. oh and mine are signed contracts=guaranteed work! dave if your out there i need a ride on!!!!!! chris

300 slit seeding jobs sold by January 23rd?

Please.


lol

SeedPro
04-11-2010, 12:14 AM
The Lesco Renovator 20 is also a great machine and has been around for years, and now has a hydraulic seed hopper gate. It's indestructible and I do a lot of Machine Seeding.

I also charge 150-175 per thousand square feet. Don't sell yourself short....this is a specialty service and sod costs a lot more.....some guys say they get a dollar per sq ft or more but I dont believe that honestly.

SeedPro
04-11-2010, 12:16 AM
http://www.rittenhouse.ca/content/images/big%5Crenov.jpg

http://www.rittenhouse.ca/content/images/big%5Crenovate.jpg

Five Diamond Lawns
04-11-2010, 10:11 PM
Didn't really get an answer to my question! I don't know the answer that's why I'm asking. If you drop the seed then cut the slit, how does the seed get in the slit???? Please don't answer with look at the results/feed back, I'm looking for the theory, as all regions have different challenges, for us its rain and seed running off.
thanks

Five Diamond Lawns
04-11-2010, 10:14 PM
Ok the Lesco has a couple brushs that probably helps get the seed in the holes. does the Lawn Solutions machine???

freddyc
04-14-2010, 10:26 PM
I just watch the video for the 9hp revitalizer on your website. I have a few questions about it. In part of the video you see no excess thatch but then towards the end you see excess thatch, if it leaves thatch what is the best way to clean the thatch up and will that disturb that seed that was just put down? What is the cost of the product as well?



I rented and used the 9hp unit last weekend. I used a mix of fescue and bluegrass.

As feedback on the machine itself, I can say a few things.

1/ it had the subaru engine and ran very smooth

2/ it has adjustments for depth of slice, seed rate, and has hand levers to turn off seed flow or slicing action

3/ its efficient on gas, quiet, and operates smoothly much like a pistol grip hydo mower. Underneath, the blades that slice are about 2" apart and I'd say each blade is about 1/8" wide. It has a pretty massive drive system for the size of machine. I don't know the weight of it but it's solid as heck.

4/ I did about 1/2 acre of yard...did it in about 1 hr or slightly less. You don't have to horse the machine around....its like using a 21" mower. Its actually a pleasure to use.


My observations:

The property I did was very uneven making the slicing action all but useless. If you figure that your goal is to slice a 1/4" deep trench and that the slicing blades are a set height off the ground, if the ground varies then so does the slice. In short there are areas with no slice cut in and areas where its about 1/2" deep. Inconsistent would be the term I'd use. I do think if the ground was PERFECTLY flat, then it might be OK, or at least better but there are few existing lawns that are perfectly flat.. With an existing lawn that needs renovation (the reason the machine is made) then I just can't see how you'd get an even depth of cut.


The second goal of the seeder should be to drop seed into the sliced out area. Regarding that I looked really hard trying to determine the effectiveness of that. Unfortunately, I saw a lot of seed all over but not a lot in the trench. Actually almost none in the trench. I tried multiple seed rates with no difference.

Maybe I'm missing the intention of the machine but the best description I can think of is you make intermittently deep slices into your ground about 2" apart, then you drop spread the seed all over the place but inside the trenched area.

I will see what comes up in a couple of weeks. I have seen other people slice seed with decent results however I dont know if they used the lawn solutions machine or something else. Also, the terrain that they used it on might have been less bumpy. From what I see so far you'd be better off doing a good dethatching and broadcast seed spread. Again, we will see in a couple weeks. Unless it comes up like a miracle, I'm thinking I wouldn't be renting this again. Certainly, it would not be a purchase. I am disappointed so far. I will get back and let you know if anything grows. Wish I took pictures now.

freddyc
04-14-2010, 11:16 PM
Didn't really get an answer to my question! I don't know the answer that's why I'm asking. If you drop the seed then cut the slit, how does the seed get in the slit???? Please don't answer with look at the results/feed back, I'm looking for the theory, as all regions have different challenges, for us its rain and seed running off.
thanks

Looking at the slicing blades, its essentially a 1/8" wide disc. In several places around the disc there are scalloped areas out of the circumference. Picture a 4-6" pizza with serveral bites taken out around the outside.

Its possible that the seed gets pushed into the sliced out trench as these scalloped parts rotate around. Not sure but I didn't see a brush on the lawn solutions machine and although I didnt disect the machine in detail, there wasn't one there that I could see. I'd also say that unless the seed was at least partly covered in dirt, its unlikely they'd have the results everyone is bragging about.. I did look for that, and thats why I am concerned that there's little difference between drop spreading and the machine. For what its worth, I had dethatched the lawn before running the revitalizer on it, so there was no influence of thatch or debris. It was raked very clean prior to using the machine. I'd throw a dart and say that if you have a bare sloped area and it works the same for you as for me, that you'd be seeing a lot of seed runoff. I can't vouch for what seed is buried in the trenches but I had a lot of surface seed just laying on top of the ground when I was done.

LawnSolutionsCP
04-15-2010, 12:12 AM
Did you run the machine as shown in our rental video on the website? If so, you should have very good results.

You should set the blades to 1/4" - 1/2" deep. If your not getting good contact all the way across then the blades are not set deep enough. The nice thing about our seeder is lots of power for just this need.

Hills - The grooves made by the blades will keep the seed in place even during heavy rain. On hills, run across the slope instead of up and down so the seed doesn't get washed away.

On low areas, well...seed float so if you have standing water during the germination period you will have to do that area over.

Make sure you water, that is 90% of the work, and what people most often don't do correctly. Keep the seed damp, not flooded, for the first 4-5 days. This means water 2-3 times for short periods daily. Then, once it starts to germinate back off and do it once daily.

LawnSolutionsCP
04-15-2010, 12:54 AM
Didn't really get an answer to my question! I don't know the answer that's why I'm asking. If you drop the seed then cut the slit, how does the seed get in the slit???? Please don't answer with look at the results/feed back, I'm looking for the theory, as all regions have different challenges, for us its rain and seed running off.
thanks

It is difficult to answer but here goes.

When I designed our Turf Revitalizer I setout to design a seeder that was fast, powerful, easy to handle and produced great results. At the same time, I also owned and operatored a part time LCO and specialized in lawn renovations because they were very profitable. I did them part time and made $30k-$40k (net) every year while work at GE doing new product design and advanced development work.

The seeders we used for our renovation work were the Ryan Mataway and the Lesco Renovator. Both great machines. One of my guys was bitching about how difficult it was to run seeder in 90-100 degree heat and 100% humidity and wanted to know why I didn't purchase a machine that was easier to use. I told him to suck it up that he has the option to use either one of the top 2 seeders on the market. He in return told me that if I was such a good engineer why don't you design one that is easy to use.

As I though about this that winter, I knew that if I had a machine the was easy to use, more productive, and gave great results....I could make more money each fall while my guys did their renovation jobs that I sold. One of my largest issues was capacity. We would run seeders 6-7 days a week 10-12 hours a day from end of Aug - early Oct. We would actually have to turn away customer because the seeding window was closing and didn't want to risk an early frost killing the new grass. So, more productivity was more jobs that we were able to complete with the same number of people.

So when I started to consider the type of seeding setup I could drop the seed first or behind the machine. I did extensive side by side testing with both machines and could not show a difference between either machine from a results standpoint. I would calibrate the amount of seed use, run both machines on the same lawn doing 1/2 with one and then 1/2 with the other and kept coming back inconclusive.

What I was able to prove was that seed to soil contact was the most important and that the machine must have enough power to fracture the ground creating a seed bed. I also determined that you would get a much higher germination rate when the ground was hard and dry if you could fracture the ground effectively. Seeding on damp ground didn't provide the results as compaired to when the ground was bone dry. Why, you get the seed to soil action better with the dry ground when all the dust flying....dirty work but it gets the results.

So what happens. The seed is dropped in rows in from of the machine using a calibrated setting that adjust based on ground speed. The faster you go the more seed is deliver and the slower you go the seed slows down. On the 1st pass, the blades follow the seed and fracturing the ground creating the rows and mixing the seed and the dirt getting the seed to soil contact. On the 2nd pass, the 1/2 half of the seed is dropped and again gets mixed when the blades cut the 2nd set of grooved 45 degrees to the 1st pass. The seed is mixed with the dirt and scattered across the ground laying on and around the grooves that were created. The watering process will work the seed into the grooves because the seed will float and move with the water and work its way to the grooves. The seed will come up in "corn rows" and the reason for going diagonally on the 2nd pass is so the grass will fill in quicker so you don't see the distinct corn row effect.

The one thing I really noticed about my testing was the importance of fracturing the ground and properly mixing the seed and dirt to get high germination. On existing turf, you can't set the blades to deep. On bare ground, set the blades too deep and you will bury the seed getting spotty germination.

If you need to work the ground, set the blades deep and go back and forth working the ground like a tiller or harley rake. Then, set the blades to 1/4" - 1/2" and do the seeding.

So why not go with dropping the seed behind the machine, it created problems with turning, maneuvering in extremely rough and difficult terrain, jumping curbs, etc.... It was also more prone to get damaged during transporting or while getting used by employees.

I was looking for a machine that I could have anyone use and not worry about them damaging the machine.

I could go on and on about other features but that it how and why our Turf Revitalize is setup with the seed delivery in front.

Is this what you were looking for?

freddyc
04-15-2010, 11:50 AM
Thats a great biography.

I will see what comes up in two weeks.

I stand by my statement that the majority of seed is just spread on the surface and that on bumpy ground the slicing action is in-consistent at best.

In the end the results will speak for themselves.

The machine itself is smooth operating, but the only thing that matters is what grass comes up like. If its not any better than a tine rake and broadcast spreader then why would I spend the money to either rent or buy a machine.

You indicated that setting it to get 1/4" deep was the way to go and that 1/2 was too deep for good germination. I say that on a non-perfectly flat lawn that i'ts impossible to get depth consistency with a fixed height off the ground.

FYI, I set the height all over the place trying to get an average 1/4 deep trench...again, the grass will speak for itself. I've done enough broadcast spreading to know the difference. Tell you in 2 weeks.

Thanks for the response.

LawnSolutionsCP
04-15-2010, 12:01 PM
Thats a great biography.

You indicated that setting it to get 1/4" deep was the way to go and that 1/2 was too deep for good germination. I say that on a non-perfectly flat lawn that i'ts impossible to get depth consistency with a fixed height off the ground.


Thanks for the response.


When doing a rough lawn, set the blades deeper. With fixed height and figid blades, the machine will cut deeper in the high areas breaking up the high spots and distribute the dirt to the lower areas. Making 2 passes as shown especially when set to 1/2" deep and sometime I'll do 3/4" will really smooth out the lawn. The 2nd pass really makes the difference.

The rigid cutting plane allow the deeper cut and fracturing action to help level the lawn.


To do this the lawn must be bone dry so the soil fractures instead of a soft cut. A wider 24" machine with the 14hp engine is KING of smoothing out rough lawns like what you describe.

It will really work the ground while leaving the majority of the grass in place. It will take about 10-14 days to recover but the results are very good.

Just make sure they water correctly.