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View Full Version : Plowing with 2WD one ton duallys?


MikeKle
01-08-2010, 12:23 AM
I have heard that to plow snow, you need at least a 3/4 ton with 4WD, but if you have a 2WD one ton, it will do fine as well. Ive never seen any 2WD truck that does good in snow, much less trying to plow snow. What makes a 2WD one ton so great for plowing? I had a 3/4 ton 2WD that sucked to even try to drive in the snow, never thought about plowing with it, cause I knew it would get stuck all the time.

topsites
01-08-2010, 02:43 AM
I'm not sure either, it would seem like getting to-from the site to be plowed
would be the greatest challenge?

They might be talking about a full ton dump truck thou, those things are
so darned heavy it don't hardly matter lol, although they spin tires some too...

Gravel Rat
01-08-2010, 02:44 AM
I don't know who told you duallys are good in the snow they are horrible you need lots of weight and tire chains. Even a 4x4 dually isn't that good in the snow.

Any way you slice it you need tire chains.

lawn king
01-08-2010, 06:29 AM
You can plow with a 2wd dually if you run real good rubber, lots of weight in the body and plow smart. I have been plowing with my isuzu npr (9 foot blade) for 8 years.

Swampy
01-08-2010, 10:32 AM
A few things if your plowing in a 2wd

-so kind of locking rear end
-Enough fixed ballest, not salt.
-A plow wide enough to cover your wheel track
-Commonsense. I wouldn't do loading docks that go down in the ground. Plow with the snow, don't take on to steep of pavement.

Sorry GR you come with tire chains on the property owner will tell you to get lost.

MikeKle
01-08-2010, 03:37 PM
I guess they were talking about the heavy dump truck one tons? I know duallys suck in the snow, even the 4x4 ones, something about those dual rear tires? There is some areas around here that the cities plow, and I have no idea how their trucks even make it on these hills they are so steep! It is scary to even drive them when its dry!! They use single axle international type dump trucks. I have never seen these getting stuck or spinning tires, Is it the weight of these trucks alone that allow them to get around so good? I have seen 4x4 internationals but our cities do not have them, I bet there is nothing that can stop those!!

Gravel Rat
01-08-2010, 05:06 PM
A few things if your plowing in a 2wd

-so kind of locking rear end
-Enough fixed ballest, not salt.
-A plow wide enough to cover your wheel track
-Commonsense. I wouldn't do loading docks that go down in the ground. Plow with the snow, don't take on to steep of pavement.

Sorry GR you come with tire chains on the property owner will tell you to get lost.

You can't even plow driveways here a 4x4 backhoe chained up may do it but a pickup with a plow not a chance.

No snow this year so far thank god :weightlifter: because nobody makes money when it snows absolutely no money in plowing nobody will pay you why would they you can't plow their road its too steep anyhow. Everybody parks their car or truck at the top or bottom of their driveway and walks to the house. Some places its a 1000 foot walk back to the house.

Swampy
01-08-2010, 07:35 PM
You can't even plow driveways here a 4x4 backhoe chained up may do it but a pickup with a plow not a chance.

No snow this year so far thank god :weightlifter: because nobody makes money when it snows absolutely no money in plowing nobody will pay you why would they you can't plow their road its too steep anyhow. Everybody parks their car or truck at the top or bottom of their driveway and walks to the house. Some places its a 1000 foot walk back to the house.

So then don't do residentials, there is very limited money in plowing houses. My comment was more gear towards plowing commerical lots. Why would you plow roads? Don't you have DPW's up there in Canada?

Gravel Rat
01-08-2010, 07:43 PM
The highways dept plows the public roads etc but side roads can be left un-plowed for days. I was stuck at home last year because the roads where I live were not plowed then it froze into ice. You needed chains to get around.

As for commercial parking lots the malls have a excavation contractor with a rubber tired backhoe scrape the parking lots.

Pretty hard to compete with a contractor with a backhoe especially if you plow the lot once a day. On the West Coast this isn't snow country it may snow and last for a week then warms up and its gone.

A plow wouldn't ever pay for itself nobody even has a plow on their truck unless its a municipal vehical but they haven't got used this year.

360ci
01-08-2010, 08:33 PM
You can plow with a 2wd, but as mentioned, weight is the biggest factor. If you have a 2 ton salter (loaded) in the bed, the weight of the plow on the front end should create a rear weight biased vehicle to aid in tractability.


A plow wouldn't ever pay for itself nobody even has a plow on their truck unless its a municipal vehical but they haven't got used this year.

BC government should ship the trucks they don't use (with plows) to Britain, I'm sure they'd pay for them right about now.

Krafty
01-08-2010, 09:39 PM
I just finished plowing with a one ton doge dually. I had about 4000 lbs of salt on the back and never once in two in a half days did I put the truck in 4x4.

gene gls
01-08-2010, 10:49 PM
You can plow with a 2wd dually if you run real good rubber, lots of weight in the body and plow smart. I have been plowing with my isuzu npr (9 foot blade) for 8 years.

I have been plowing with my Mitsi for 9 years. I am limmited to some areas as compared to 4x4.

lawn king
01-09-2010, 09:25 AM
I set up my cabover with a 9' snoway because of the downpressure option. If im in a situation that i forsee traction issues, such as plowing a steepe downgrade and having to back out, i engage the DP on my way down to insure good rear traction to get out.

Gravel Rat
01-09-2010, 02:57 PM
You guys snow is drier than what is seen here on the West Coast. The snow here isn't dry and fluffy it can get very wet and heavy. If I say drive my F-450 over some fresh snow where the tires rolled over its compacted ice.

I litterally have to take a steel bar to chip it off the driveway that is one pass of the tires.

I have had 3000lbs of weight directly over the drive tires they spin like there is no weight on the truck. Tires spin turn the snow into ice and I'am stuck.

My truck has a locker so both side spin I have reved my 6.0 PSD to 3500 rpm and went no where. To get any traction here we need to use V bar chains even regular twist link chains can't get enough traction.

If I had chains on all 4 drive tires and the steer tires it would be good. Lots of times you steer and your not going the direction you want to go :laugh:

The last heavy snow fall the highways dept needed a Cat 14G grader chained up and steel bladed the road to clear the snow. A regular single axle 5 ton plow trucks couldn't do it. The hills are too steep even with 6 ton of salt and chains on the tires there wasn't enough traction.

No snow is good for us that white crap is a pain in the azz nobody want to deal with it.

supercuts
01-09-2010, 04:47 PM
So then don't do residentials, there is very limited money in plowing houses. My comment was more gear towards plowing commerical lots. Why would you plow roads? Don't you have DPW's up there in Canada?

there is? i hear this so much. i have friends who keeps telling me to get out of them and take on commercial accounts. we go over figures, i plow for less then half the time, sometimes as little as a 1/4 of what they plow and i gross more. we both use 2 trucks. he sands, i dont. i dont have the sand/salt expense, sander expense, or sander repair expense, nor do i need to reload the thing during a storm. i also dont have to worry about covering the sander.

the only place he beats me is after the snow melts and refreezes he gets to go and sand. im not saying i havent concidered a sander, but what is wrong with driveways? how much do you make a snowstorm doing your commercial accounts?

MLI
01-10-2010, 07:19 AM
I have a mix of resi. and commercial. We do better on small commercial lots, and yes we sand. I have a friend that has 110 resi drives, and I have a mix of about 40. We make the same money,but he has like 10 guys going,while I have 3. Sand/salt mix is so cheap compared to what you make. When I sand my lots, im using about 1/2 yard of sand($30), and do 6 small lots with a Fisher Pro Flow 2 tailgater. I probably make 5k more than the friend each yr. because of this. With that $30 of sand I do about $600 worth of work in about 2 hrs. I did the large sander in the back of the truck, and yes its a pain with loading machine each season, then leaving outside all summer to rust. This little sander unit(although I have to load by hand) is just what we needed. Off the truck in minutes, electric motor,easy to clean!

MikeKle
01-10-2010, 09:50 AM
I would say as long as you have enough residentials to plow, you should be OK, I would prefer doing houses over commercial places, quicker and get paid right there usually. Plus most people would rather their houses be plowed before any businesses are touched!

gene gls
01-10-2010, 10:13 AM
there is? i hear this so much. i have friends who keeps telling me to get out of them and take on commercial accounts. we go over figures, i plow for less then half the time, sometimes as little as a 1/4 of what they plow and i gross more. we both use 2 trucks. he sands, i dont. i dont have the sand/salt expense, sander expense, or sander repair expense, nor do i need to reload the thing during a storm. i also dont have to worry about covering the sander.

the only place he beats me is after the snow melts and refreezes he gets to go and sand. im not saying i havent concidered a sander, but what is wrong with driveways? how much do you make a snowstorm doing your commercial accounts?
Doing residential accounts are fine. They are less demanding, most are push and go, some need shoveling. Anyone doing commerical accounts should have a 0-1" tollarance depending on foot traffic. Also, anyone doing commericals should have thier own sander for better control of slip and fall conditions. As a rule, commerical accounts are more profitable because of foot trafic and the need to maintain safe conditions.There are a lot of business owners that are willing to take the risk of slip and falls verses the cost for safty. I do not take any commerical work that wants a sloppy job for a cheaper price. The end conditions will reflect back on your business by everyone seeing your trucks at the location. Word of mouth is the best advertising so take the time to make sure its good advertising.

rcslawncare
01-10-2010, 05:18 PM
If there is weight over the drive wheels, you will have no problem. Just make sure you run the right size plow, as mentioned before!

Swampy
01-10-2010, 09:59 PM
there is? i hear this so much. i have friends who keeps telling me to get out of them and take on commercial accounts. we go over figures, i plow for less then half the time, sometimes as little as a 1/4 of what they plow and i gross more. we both use 2 trucks. he sands, i dont. i dont have the sand/salt expense, sander expense, or sander repair expense, nor do i need to reload the thing during a storm. i also dont have to worry about covering the sander.

the only place he beats me is after the snow melts and refreezes he gets to go and sand. im not saying i havent concidered a sander, but what is wrong with driveways? how much do you make a snowstorm doing your commercial accounts?

Like gene gls said. Commericals usually avoid the "slip and fall" in a sue happy world. If you could stack Residentials up next each other I could see a profit but if your running hell over high water between them, that is not going to happen. I think I lucked out this year, I plow a Urgent Care medical building they have to have the lot plowed and salted (not sanded) at a 1/2in, something with there insurance.

ProTouch Groundscapes
01-10-2010, 10:50 PM
we run a 2wd 98' c3500 dump with an L pack and 8' drop side dump with a blizzard 810pp.

what we did was create a bulkhead in the back to keep about 3k worth of #57 river rock up against the back tailgate as ballast/traction aid. the back end has 4 235/85/R16 E Range BFG All Terrain KO's.

the truck does about 50 of our 150 resi driveways and a few commercial lots and does pretty well overall, it just depends on the conditions, heavy wet snow will stop the truck occassionally or if you get the real cold powder that glasses over after a scrape youll be spinning but can usually make it out. the only issue is that it does not have a locking diff.

heres a pic:
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m300/frndinalowplace/DSC00742.jpg

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m300/frndinalowplace/DSC00743.jpg

Gravel Rat
01-11-2010, 01:22 AM
we run a 2wd 98' c3500 dump with an L pack and 8' drop side dump with a blizzard 810pp.

what we did was create a bulkhead in the back to keep about 3k worth of #57 river rock up against the back tailgate as ballast/traction aid. the back end has 4 235/85/R16 E Range BFG All Terrain KO's.

the truck does about 50 of our 150 resi driveways and a few commercial lots and does pretty well overall, it just depends on the conditions, heavy wet snow will stop the truck occassionally or if you get the real cold powder that glasses over after a scrape youll be spinning but can usually make it out. the only issue is that it does not have a locking diff.

heres a pic:
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m300/frndinalowplace/DSC00742.jpg


http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m300/frndinalowplace/DSC00743.jpg

If you find 7.50R16 tires for the back you will have even more traction in the snow. The tires are narrow and cut through to the asphalt. The 235 tires are a little wide you end up with not enough space between the tires. There is no place for the snow to go. The back tires don't act as individual tires.

You mount 7.50R16s you will have 2 inches between tires right now you have 1/2 inch between the sidewalls.

MarcSmith
01-11-2010, 09:11 AM
dauly rears start to act like "snow shoes" if you don't have enough gap between the tires. When I worked at TGLC most of our trucks were 2wd f450's with a mini spreader on the back and 1-2 pallets of ice melt. Worked fine....

Gravel Rat
01-11-2010, 03:47 PM
The old F-Superduty (450) and the current F-450/550 have lots of space between the tires. The F-Superduty trucks use wheels with deeper offset so they still run a 16 inch tire like a F-350 but you can run a 235 tire and have lots of space between the tires.

A F-350 Chevy 3500 or or a Dodge dually using 235/85R16 tires don't quite have enough space between the tires. I used to run 235s on Ford 350 duallys but you don't have much clearance between the sidewalls.

On Chevys it is a little worse same with newer Dodges.

The 7.50R16 is a inch narrower than a 235 so that gives you almost 2 inches between the duals.

ProTouch Groundscapes
01-12-2010, 08:41 AM
i know winter tires should be narrow, but i couldnt find a 215 or 225 width tire in a decent height with load range E and good traction which is why i had to step up the 235 bfgs.

the stock 225/65/r16 tires were just a joke.

Gravel Rat
01-12-2010, 10:58 PM
The 7.50R16 tires are 32 inches tall they only come in 8ply or 14ply.

The 225 tires are a joke and the 215s don't carry any weight.

MikeKle
01-12-2010, 11:30 PM
I like that truck called "snow slayer" thats good! There is a guy around here that uses a older Chevy 3500, but it is am HD model, I think it is an 1992 or 93? I used to think the 3500 and the 3500 HD were pretty much the same thing except for heavier springs and little things like that, but I was way wrong! The HD model is closer to a 1.5 ton than a one ton. I noticed it has the 19.5 wheels, and also the solid front axle, but no 4WD available on the HD model, at least on that year. That is odd? I believe it also has a much stouter rear diff. too. They are heavy duty trucks, much heavier than any one tons! I do not think they make the Chevy 3500 HD anymore though, at least not like the 1992 models anyway! BTW, it never had any trouble plowing snow, I guess because it is so damn heavy?

gene gls
01-13-2010, 07:09 AM
The 7.50R16 tires are 32 inches tall they only come in 8ply or 14ply.

The 225 tires are a joke and the 215s don't carry any weight.

I run Cooper M/S 215's, E rated, 10 ply.........

Gravel Rat
01-13-2010, 08:05 PM
Gene if you went with 7.50R16 tires on the rear and 235/85R16 on the front it would be the best combination.

The 7.50R16 are 14ply they have a load rating of 3100lbs each a 215/85R16 10 ply is only 2400lb load rating a 235 has 2700lb load rating.

The 7.50R16 14 ply were a very common tire around here before you could get 19.5 tires. The 7.50R16s would cause the wheel to bend or deform before the tire gave out. Very tough tires getting hard to find now.

Bridgstone V-Steel VSX was a common drive tire the loggers used to buy them.

gene gls
01-13-2010, 08:25 PM
Gene if you went with 7.50R16 tires on the rear and 235/85R16 on the front it would be the best combination.

The 7.50R16 are 14ply they have a load rating of 3100lbs each a 215/85R16 10 ply is only 2400lb load rating a 235 has 2700lb load rating.

The 7.50R16 14 ply were a very common tire around here before you could get 19.5 tires. The 7.50R16s would cause the wheel to bend or deform before the tire gave out. Very tough tires getting hard to find now.

Bridgstone V-Steel VSX was a common drive tire the loggers used to buy them.

Thanks......I will keep them in mind for future use.

Gravel Rat
01-13-2010, 10:57 PM
Even if you just had a retreaded set to use in the winter time with a snow specific tread on them and the rest of the year run a summer type tire.

ProTouch Groundscapes
01-14-2010, 05:47 PM
Gene if you went with 7.50R16 tires on the rear and 235/85R16 on the front it would be the best combination.

The 7.50R16 are 14ply they have a load rating of 3100lbs each a 215/85R16 10 ply is only 2400lb load rating a 235 has 2700lb load rating.

a 3100lb load rating isnt that high for a 14 ply tire. i know of E rangee (10plies) that get more than that, although the extra plies will give you better sidewall stability if thats where the extra plies are.

what brand 7.4r16 tires are you talking about? not all 14 ply tires have the same ratings.

Gravel Rat
01-14-2010, 06:57 PM
The 7.50R-16 is a narrow tire it runs 110 PSI like I said it will distort your rim before the tire give out. Very tough tires guys run them because they are puncture proof good for offroad.

They are speed rated thou because the heat build up is pretty high.

When your running a duals especially Ford-Chev-Dodge 1 tons you want the tall skinny tires on the back gives you good traction and prevents the tires from floating. Get into mud or snow you have more traction.