PDA

View Full Version : Help with large homeowners association bid


grassmasterswilson
01-10-2010, 09:03 AM
I am in the process of working on a bid for a HOA. This is my first large bid and am having trouble of where to start or how much discount to give compared to a stand alone home. Here are the details....

51 houses/duplexes mowing- avg .25 ac lot or around 4-5k lawn, going rate for stand alone would be $25-$30 depending on location, all homes grouped together.

2 entrances and pool area mowing- around 2-3 acres, includes medians, recreation area, etc

700 bales of pinestraw 1 time a year. -- usually try to get $2 a bale over cost

preemergents sprayed 4 times a year - I usually only spray twice, but they must want split apps, no request on post emergent but waiting on a call back.


Mowing would be done once a week. Just curious as to how to go about bidding? Any advice would be great.

ALC-GregH
01-10-2010, 09:31 AM
It's one thing to read a guy wanting someone to give them a price on a residential property without seeing it. It's another to want someone to give you a price on a HOA. If you are not sure how to bid the place then you should wait until you've gain more knowledge.

grassmasterswilson
01-10-2010, 10:55 AM
I was looking for tips, not what you would charge!

Do you actually go out and measure everything (lots, driveways, beds, ets)? What about using GIS on the computer and measureing lots and subtracting house size and driveway? What would your estimated charge per acre be for a HOA? $50 per acre?

AzLawnMan
01-10-2010, 11:57 AM
When I get a large bid for something like this, I will always try and ask them what they were paying, or whats you annual landscape budget. Just tell them you are real motivated and you want there business. I will usually tell them that I will beat there current contract by 5-10% in cost that I control and I will talk to my vendors and see what I can do. If that doesnt work and you cant get any numbers, just adjust your prices. If you normally $25-30 for an average home then you have to look at other factors. These are in bulk. Are they smaller than an average house? Front and back yards? How many man hours are you going to be there per week, how many employees? Also keep in mind the extra money you may make there. Tree's, fertilizer, sprinkler repair,etc. I would say be around $10-15 per unit and go from there on the common areas. But most importantly, HOW MUCH DO YOU WANT IT?

SNAPPER MAN
01-10-2010, 12:11 PM
You have to bid jobs like this by the hour. Look at it and estimate how many man hours it would take you and multiply that by $30 per man hour (my rate). Also go lower than what you would normally charge. I agree with the above post. Good advice.

Mahoney3223
01-10-2010, 03:27 PM
well with the lowballers up here they would probably bid $15.00 per lawn...no joke..and these are big companies up here doing this

AzLawnMan
01-10-2010, 06:38 PM
Well these bigger companies can bid lower because they currently have the man-power waiting for new jobs. In the past they used these highly skilled workers on installs, well those jobs have stalled, and they dont wanna get rid of these guys because they are very valuable. So they underbid jobs to keep those guys busy. Like I said, talk with the Property Manager or the person asking for the bid. Ask to do a walk through with the person(s) making the decision. Point out things you see that arent being done, and the things you are willing to do. I have always found during this time of one on one, you can get alot of info from them. Set up a lunch, ask how many bids there getting, ask why they are making a change, how do they pay? 30-60-90 days? These are all important questions in helping you find your price.

101Prolawns
01-12-2010, 08:35 AM
Bubba don't get your hopes up on that thought of getting $20-$30 per yard them people will chew you up and spit you out down the road now joke. I mow for 6 housing Associations people and that consist of 200 yards and i only get $12 per yard, but the only reason is becuz I don't only just mow I do everything for them. I spray however many times they want and landscape like crazy. I even do the snow removal, but I charge the same per drive and I have to do it by snow blower, but I don't use awalk behind one i use a front mount grasshopper and it works great. I only hate it when it blows into my face. If you have any questions give me a hollar I give you some expertise.

ALC-GregH
01-12-2010, 09:10 AM
I don't use a walk behind one i use a front mount grasshopper and it works great. I only hate it when it blows into my face. If you have any questions give me a hollar I give you some expertise.

You need that fancy enclosed cab Grasshopper makes. It even has a wiper on it. :)
http://www.grasshoppermower.com/images/photos/716W20692.jpg

MarcSmith
01-12-2010, 09:27 AM
you alredy know how much you charge for a given sqft. You to extrapolate that date from your current jobs. yes get yourself a wheel or a GPS and measure the property. that way you and the prop manager are on the same page as to exactly what gets mowed, trimmed, blowed, mulched, planted ect. .. figure out how much saving you'll get by not having to drive around and drop the gate as much... on the larger jobs you can really increase your efficiency by considering different mowers ie what works on your normal resi yards may not be the best option here...

we got info on subbing out the mowing here on campus last year. I provided each contractor a detailed, electronic CAD map of the campus. but each one came out and measured each and every sqft of turf. Its the only way to know...

dishboy
01-12-2010, 10:19 AM
I am in the process of working on a bid for a HOA. This is my first large bid and am having trouble of where to start or how much discount to give compared to a stand alone home. Here are the details....

51 houses/duplexes mowing- avg .25 ac lot or around 4-5k lawn, going rate for stand alone would be $25-$30 depending on location, all homes grouped together.

2 entrances and pool area mowing- around 2-3 acres, includes medians, recreation area, etc

700 bales of pinestraw 1 time a year. -- usually try to get $2 a bale over cost

preemergents sprayed 4 times a year - I usually only spray twice, but they must want split apps, no request on post emergent but waiting on a call back.


Mowing would be done once a week. Just curious as to how to go about bidding? Any advice would be great.

Who is doing the N applications and how about who controls irrigation. Heavy N and water can add 20%/30% to your mowing times easily. Do they specify how clippings are handled?

grassmasterswilson
01-12-2010, 09:37 PM
Who is doing the N applications and how about who controls irrigation. Heavy N and water can add 20%/30% to your mowing times easily. Do they specify how clippings are handled?

I will be doing the spraying (4)and feritilizer apps (2). Clippings will be mulched or discharged... they don't care. May bag in fall for leaves. Can dump on site in feilds if need be.

dmunoz
01-12-2010, 10:11 PM
HOA's are their own interesting group. Keep in mind that they're big on accountability and getting a fast response when problems come up. So, unlike some other types of commercial projects, you'll need to make sure you are able to charge appropriately for emergency visits, meetings & calls, dealing with homeowners who are upset about something you did or didn't do, etc.

topsites
01-12-2010, 10:36 PM
Yet another that falls into that category of if it's too big to wrap my mind around, better off staying small.
Or in this case starting out small, something to do with biting off more than one can chew.

HOA's are their own interesting group.

Well yes, yes, that they are.

I'd still see about getting into something that's not quite as big.

dmunoz
01-12-2010, 10:55 PM
90% of our projects are HOA's. We've had most of them for 4 yrs or longer. Lots of HOA's change landscapers every year. So, it's good to know what you're doing before you start a new crew or buy equipment to do an HOA project.

nlminc
01-12-2010, 11:10 PM
I won a contract for a HOA in Atlanta in Dec and sent out my first statement with an email letting them know we would be in for the 1st visit this week. Wouldn't you know.....they had the previous landscaper beat my price and decided to give them another chance. They want me to hold off because they are now going month to month with the company and may want me to start at a later date. Phuk em! They didn't even call/write to let me know about this! I had been working on that contract since September and dragged along. HOA = Politics, no loyalty and low prices.

I checked out their landscape service providers web site and they don't have any Americans working on the crews based upon the photos up on the site.

101Prolawns
01-13-2010, 12:07 AM
Hey buddy MARCSMITH I don't think you know what your talking about. I have been in business for 12 years my own business not for someone else. If you think you should charge buy the hour or whatever your stupid sorry, but you have no ideaa how to price crapp. I deal with these elderly people on a constant basis and I tell you what they would chew you butt up and send you back home crying and that aint no joke. i don't care how good you are or what you dumb thinkin oh hey get on the internet and measure out the square footage and whatever and charge by the hour or foot whatever. YOU CANNOT DO THAT, PERIOD.:hammerhead:

101Prolawns
01-13-2010, 12:12 AM
Bubba don't get your hopes up on that thought of getting $20-$30 per yard them people will chew you up and spit you out down the road now joke. I mow for 6 housing Associations people and that consist of 200 yards and i only get $12 per yard, but the only reason is becuz I don't only just mow I do everything for them. I spray however many times they want and landscape like crazy. I even do the snow removal, but I charge the same per drive and I have to do it by snow blower, but I don't use awalk behind one i use a front mount grasshopper and it works great. I only hate it when it blows into my face. If you have any questions give me a hollar I give you some expertise.NOW if you offered to 36 inch or use a self propelled mower on the front they probably would hire you cuz alot of them don't like the big mowers on the front yard.

MarcSmith
01-13-2010, 07:04 AM
101 pro. before start shouting out your pie hole, you do not know me, and being on your 3rd post its pretty stupid for you to ASSume that just becasue I work for a university now doesn't mean I haven't owned my own company before. I have, Multiple crews, not just a one man band. HOA , commercial, resi. the whole bit...

I never once said "charge by the hour"
The OP already charges a price for resi homes per visit so he knows his cost per visit. lets say 20 bucks. for about 10Ksqft. He know how much time he spends loading and unloading. he know how much time he spends traveling. So he should be able to figure out his production rate and subsequent cost per 1000 sqft. I was providing the OP a method for figuring out production rates for large area.

As others have said, for which I agree if the OP is unable to get his head around a quote this big, maybe he shouldn't be bidding on it...


And yes I know about HOAS, I had several, one of which was 500 unit complex in Florida, and yes I know how to deal with the fact the ever single home owner seems to think they are your boss.

AzLawnMan
01-13-2010, 03:21 PM
Hey buddy MARCSMITH I don't think you know what your talking about. I have been in business for 12 years my own business not for someone else. If you think you should charge buy the hour or whatever your stupid sorry, but you have no ideaa how to price crapp. I deal with these elderly people on a constant basis and I tell you what they would chew you butt up and send you back home crying and that aint no joke. i don't care how good you are or what you dumb thinkin oh hey get on the internet and measure out the square footage and whatever and charge by the hour or foot whatever. YOU CANNOT DO THAT, PERIOD.:hammerhead:

Hmm. How long have you been in business? How do you charge? Do you count every plant and tree and break down what its going to take. Every company should have there operating cost. You seem a little slow so I will tell you what that is. ALL OF YOUR EXPENSES BROKEN DOWN PER HOUR, PLUS A MARKUP FOR, NOW I KNOW YOUR SLOW SO, WE DO IT FOR THIS LITTLE THING WE ALL CALL "PROFIT". I have my hourly rate that I charge and I adjust it from there. There are many huge companies that use GPS on there properties. AAA, Carescape, Tru-Green, DLC, Valley-Crest should I continue? By measuring out your property it not only gives you an idea of what your dealing with as far as sqft, but you can set alot of your prices and man hours that way. I charge overseeding by sqft, so I do use a GPS on my properties. I know how much seed I need to buy, how much fertilizer and so on. It is exact and they dont over pay for for services. And who says all HOA's are elderly? I do many HOA's and none of which are eldery in general. So chill out and read some more. There are many smart people on here, you may learn how to actually do business.

Grass Shark
01-13-2010, 03:52 PM
I think the easiest way to handle it would be to do as SNAPPER MAN says,
1.How long does it take you to do the average house?
2.Multiply that number by the amount of lots.
3.Multiply that by your hourly rate
4.Discount 10%-20% for them all being in a row.
5.Add your common areas on.
6.Bingo there is your cut price.
This is what I would do.... but we all do things differently and thats fine, but i'm no dumby

101Prolawns
01-13-2010, 07:12 PM
hey trufshark i like your reply you know what i'm ttalkin about you know how to price. Now talking about the snapper um the snapper is to small, now if this was 19 someting yeah that would work, but today alot of the people wnat the stripes and all that fancy look which they do get everytime I mow. Now this guy that i did reply to about he was wondering he could get 20-30 dollars per yard. I told him that them people would chew him up and spit him down the road. now if if offered to use a 36 inch or self propel the front yards and use a bigger mowers to mow the back and common areas then he could maybe get them for that price. If hes going to just use a big mower on all then he will be looking at 12 dollars per yard.

101Prolawns
01-13-2010, 07:31 PM
Azlawnman I am going to tell you some advice and I can tell you that you will loose alot of business if you think you need a computer up your a$$ all day long. One thing to tell your buddy I am not slow and another thing I am number 1 here in Indiana and i don't need to check sqft. or what ever I mow 52 Wal Marts And 10 Sam's clubs and 350 HOA's and 300 commercial and residential clients. I make over 1 million dollars a years even with the economy was down I am number 1. Say something now buddy and another thing everything I own is paid off I just bought a new truck in cash yesterday. oh yeah and another thing i don't sit in my truck on my cell all day either I have 3 crews my dad runs one down south of me and I run two up north my brother nlaw runs my third to help us out and on thursdays and fridays re all run together and mow are residential and HOA's. So now tell me who's slow buddy. i don't need to learn sheet buddy.

grassmasterswilson
01-13-2010, 07:43 PM
Thanks for any tips that might have been given. I am in a town of only 50k so a 51 home HOA doesn't come up very often. I have a grasp on what I want to bid, but just a little nervous cause not sure how long it will take us. I would be adding 1-2 employees if I got the job.

Just hate to go cut it for the first time and know that I bid way to low and will have a hard time making a profit.

101Prolawns
01-13-2010, 07:56 PM
Mr. where this at what kind of grass are we looking at how big are the yards, tell me how you are going hnalde this HOA's I am willing to help now I have got to go meet one of my clients. Iwill be back around nine give me aa hlloar at my email address at Dashby_lawncare10@yahoo.com

djagusch
01-13-2010, 08:00 PM
Thanks for any tips that might have been given. I am in a town of only 50k so a 51 home HOA doesn't come up very often. I have a grasp on what I want to bid, but just a little nervous cause not sure how long it will take us. I would be adding 1-2 employees if I got the job.

Just hate to go cut it for the first time and know that I bid way to low and will have a hard time making a profit.

Post up a google earth pic if you can. I would bet it's priced $32 to $42 per unit per month. Also you won't really need to ad employee's. I have 2 34 unit HOA's one takes under 3 hrs by myself the other takes 4 hrs by myself. They are in the $40/unit range. So 51 units shouldn't take more than a day. Then ad an extra day per month for trimming fert etc. This is all on a 12 mo contract.

dmunoz
01-13-2010, 08:00 PM
You just have to figure out what works for you. Because in the end, you are the only one who has to deal with your decision.

dmunoz
01-13-2010, 08:04 PM
And, if you're having this much trouble figuring out the bid, you should probably think twice about whether you really want to bid on it.

AzLawnMan
01-13-2010, 08:05 PM
So you have 3 crews? And you do 52 wal-marts and 330 residential and commercial accounts? so you do about 51 properties a day between your 2 crews and your 1 part time crew? And thats an awsome advice, about paying cash for a truck. If your such business savy, and you make so much money and you have no fear of being broke then why wouldnt you finance and use someone else money and write off the interest on your auto loan? So by the numbers you gave me, $1 million a year, and you own everything, than I am your biggest fan. I say this because you are paying everyone else fair share of taxes. I mean if you own everything, that means you have nothing to write off. So other than you payroll, the rest is completly taxed. Hmm, talk to your CPA, he might slap you though. But all in all I am calling BULLSH!T on your last post. But hey keep living in a world where you think you are #1. More than likely you have a truck that you are upside down on, an old mower and a Ryobi weed-eater and maybe 10 accounts. But I like you, you are blinded by what you cannot do, so maybe one day you will have everything you just mentioned. But do the math, it doesnt add up. BUDDY

dmunoz
01-13-2010, 08:09 PM
So you have 3 crews? And you do 52 wal-marts and 330 residential and commercial accounts? so you do about 51 properties a day between your 2 crews and your 1 part time crew? And thats an awsome advice, about paying cash for a truck. If your such business savy, and you make so much money and you have no fear of being broke then why wouldnt you finance and use someone else money and write off the interest on your auto loan? So by the numbers you gave me, $1 million a year, and you own everything, than I am your biggest fan. I say this because you are paying everyone else fair share of taxes. I mean if you own everything, that means you have nothing to write off. So other than you payroll, the rest is completly taxed. Hmm, talk to your CPA, he might slap you though. But all in all I am calling BULLSH!T on your last post. But hey keep living in a world where you think you are #1. More than likely you have a truck that you are upside down on, an old mower and a Ryobi weed-eater and maybe 10 accounts. But I like you, you are blinded by what you cannot do, so maybe one day you will have everything you just mentioned. But do the math, it doesnt add up. BUDDY

How many states would he have to be in to do 52 Walmarts?

1wezil
01-13-2010, 08:13 PM
:laugh: OK Kids fight nice now.... :hammerhead:...Why do people think they have to get in a pissing match on here ? ? I just don't get it ....

Raymond S.
01-13-2010, 08:21 PM
Azlawnman I am going to tell you some advice and I can tell you that you will loose alot of business if you think you need a computer up your a$$ all day long. One thing to tell your buddy I am not slow and another thing I am number 1 here in Indiana and i don't need to check sqft. or what ever I mow 52 Wal Marts And 10 Sam's clubs and 350 HOA's and 300 commercial and residential clients. I make over 1 million dollars a years even with the economy was down I am number 1. Say something now buddy and another thing everything I own is paid off I just bought a new truck in cash yesterday. oh yeah and another thing i don't sit in my truck on my cell all day either I have 3 crews my dad runs one down south of me and I run two up north my brother nlaw runs my third to help us out and on thursdays and fridays re all run together and mow are residential and HOA's. So now tell me who's slow buddy. i don't need to learn sheet buddy.

Wow, that's impressive. Do you talk the same way you type? I bet that is professionalism at it's best when you go into one of "them there" Wally Worlds you got and let 'em all know you's the man mowin' that there grass out front...:drinkup:
I do have a question for you though. I couldn't find your profile when I googled "#1 lawncare provider in Indiana."...crazy, I thought for SURE I'd find your name. Also, any tips for some of us lawnguys on here that dream of one day earning that million dollar figure you throw out there? I'm sure there's SOMETHING you can let us in on. I mean, with 350 HOA's and 300 commercial/residentials there's got to be a magic formula. And to think, all this work without even a website or anything...Dashby Lawncare.:waving:

AzLawnMan
01-13-2010, 08:21 PM
Well there are over 80 in Indy. But they are in over 20 different cities. But his numbers are saying he does around 72 properties a day in a 5 day work week. With 3 crews?

grassmasterswilson
01-13-2010, 08:23 PM
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=35.777384,-77.948534&num=1&t=h&sll=35.797499,-77.962443&sspn=0.133268,0.190149&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=35.777418,-77.949961&spn=0.004135,0.014613&z=17

entrances along country club drive and nantuckett
Pool/rec area below country club drive between nantucket and bar harbor
all houses between nantucket and bar harbor (32)
houses along country club(shows 6 but now 7) next to the group of 32
at top of the map there are duplexes on rochester ct (12)
estrance from nast st/58 to rochester houses

Hope this helps

djagusch
01-13-2010, 08:52 PM
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=35.777384,-77.948534&num=1&t=h&sll=35.797499,-77.962443&sspn=0.133268,0.190149&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=35.777418,-77.949961&spn=0.004135,0.014613&z=17

entrances along country club drive and nantuckett
Pool/rec area below country club drive between nantucket and bar harbor
all houses between nantucket and bar harbor (32)
houses along country club(shows 6 but now 7) next to the group of 32
at top of the map there are duplexes on rochester ct (12)
estrance from nast st/58 to rochester houses

Hope this helps

Yes it does help. When I count units duplexes are counted as two units. A unit means household or payer I guess.

The open lots or open areas (by the duplexes) do they want that mowed? Besides that it's a lot of little area mowing.

I would set the expectation on doing the home area one day and the duplex area another day. I'm guessing you could do everything in a day but the first time might be close. Also think about mowing a section then trim it then go to the next. That way your not trimming for 2 hrs all at once and the day goes by easier.

Up in MN 26 cuts about 15 plows, fert, weed, irrigation, it would go around that $38 to $42 per unit per month (63 units I'm counting).

101Prolawns
01-13-2010, 10:18 PM
Ok you have no idea ok I mow all the Wal-marts in Indy down to Louisville and Sam's clubs and mainly all our customers are right buy there is none of this getting in the truck and going down the road all our clients are right buy another client it only takes me a half hour to mow 1 walmart and when it comes to a resident about 10 minutes NO JOKE and another thing My company don't get off work till 9:00 P.M. at night sometimes even later and we don't get no complaints because we do our best. And anothe r thing all my guys are salaried and they earn up to $32,000 a year and my third crew is not part time either he helps out whoever or we send him to other residents and another thing he by himself can mow two Wal-marts in 1 hour and 15 minutes all my guys are skilled and I don't have no lazy dumb ducks working for me and they do work on saturday morning till about 1 and then the have the rest of the day off. I don't bullcrapp anybody. And I do get up to $800,000 from Wal-Mart and then I get the rest from my HOA's and my residents. So yeah i do get over a million dollars a year and I am proud of my work and my customers are proud of me. And another thing I have been even thinking about putting a truck and trailer in Cinncinatti next year. That will be another $100,000 or more from there. Buddy I am 22 year's old i started when i was 11 and grew and grew By 16 i had 150 customers. I do believe I know what i am talking about when it comes to the LAWNCARE AND LANDSCAPING BUSINESS. I DON'T BULLSHEET I JUST DO MY WORK AND GO ON FROM THERE.

dmunoz
01-13-2010, 10:31 PM
Ok you have no idea ok I mow all the Wal-marts in Indy down to Louisville and Sam's clubs and mainly all our customers are right buy there is none of this getting in the truck and going down the road all our clients are right buy another client it only takes me a half hour to mow 1 walmart and when it comes to a resident about 10 minutes NO JOKE and another thing My company don't get off work till 9:00 P.M. at night sometimes even later and we don't get no complaints because we do our best. And anothe r thing all my guys are salaried and they earn up to $32,000 a year and my third crew is not part time either he helps out whoever or we send him to other residents and another thing he by himself can mow two Wal-marts in 1 hour and 15 minutes all my guys are skilled and I don't have no lazy dumb ducks working for me and they do work on saturday morning till about 1 and then the have the rest of the day off. I don't bullcrapp anybody. And I do get up to $800,000 from Wal-Mart and then I get the rest from my HOA's and my residents. So yeah i do get over a million dollars a year and I am proud of my work and my customers are proud of me. And another thing I have been even thinking about putting a truck and trailer in Cinncinatti next year. That will be another $100,000 or more from there. Buddy I am 22 year's old i started when i was 11 and grew and grew By 16 i had 150 customers. I do believe I know what i am talking about when it comes to the LAWNCARE AND LANDSCAPING BUSINESS. I DON'T BULLSHEET I JUST DO MY WORK AND GO ON FROM THERE.

I think you're stretching the truth...even to yourself.:nono:

101Prolawns
01-13-2010, 10:37 PM
Buddy I only mow for 6 HOA's and that equals up to 350 yards and i mow 296 residents and I have 57 comercial customers who are Wal-Mart and sam's club all together and another thing the reason i am not on the Internet or whatever is because I don't have time to sit on the computer and type all season long and i don't go and spend all kinds of money on advertisement because I already have enough customers as it is. And another thing i am adding another crews that's why I just bought another truck for my fourth crew. And like I just earlier i thinking about putting a crew in Cinncinatti next year I have been doing some work over there for Gene B Glick. You know what i don't have nothing else to tell you I am tired of typing to you wanna bees and lowballers. C-ya

SNAPPER MAN
01-13-2010, 10:40 PM
I think you're stretching the truth...even to yourself.:nono:

I agree with you. Most people who have a lot of work don't go around bragging about it thinking they are better than everyone else. I know the owner of a local company that used to run up to 20 crews daily, the guy never bragged and was a simple guy. That 101prolawns needs to chill out and quit bragging, nobody cares how much work you have. Just because you bring in $1,000,000 a year doesn't mean your making any money. If you want to brag, brag about a big net profit, not your gross. Also any smart business man would never pay cash for a large purchase due to cash flow reasons and credit. Just quit lying.

101Prolawns
01-13-2010, 10:56 PM
HEY TEX AND ARIZONA BOY I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK YOU ALL AIN'T NOTHING,BUT LITTLE BOYS WITH THEIR LITTLE JOHNDEERE PEDAL TRACTOR MOWING YOUR FAMILIES YARDS AND WHATEVER YOU DO AND YOU KNOW WHAT I BET ABOUT 95% OF ALL YOU GUYS GET UP EVERYDAY AT ABOUT NOON GET A SHOWER GET LOADED UP GO OUT MOW WHATEVER YOU FEEL LIKE MOWING AND GET TIRED AND THEN SART HEADING HOME AFTER MOWING THREE STOP BUY LIQUIR STORE GO HOME UNLOAD CALL SOME BUDDIES OVER DRINKS TILL THE GOATS COME HOME AND i TELL YOU GUYS WHAT ALL YOU TEXANS AND ARIZONIANS WHATEVER AIN'T NOTHING THESE DAY'S. lIKE HOW THE OLD TIMERS SAYS THERE AIN'T NO MORE JOHN WAYNES IN THIS WORLD NO MORE, BUT I CAN TELL YOU ONE THING i AM 100% COWBOY.

SNAPPER MAN
01-13-2010, 10:58 PM
HEY TEX AND ARIZONA BOY I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK YOU ALL AIN'T NOTHING,BUT LITTLE BOYS WITH THEIR LITTLE JOHNDEERE PEDAL TRACTOR MOWING YOUR FAMILIES YARDS AND WHATEVER YOU DO AND YOU KNOW WHAT I BET ABOUT 95% OF ALL YOU GUYS GET UP EVERYDAY AT ABOUT NOON GET A SHOWER GET LOADED UP GO OUT MOW WHATEVER YOU FEEL LIKE MOWING AND GET TIRED AND THEN SART HEADING HOME AFTER MOWING THREE STOP BUY LIQUIR STORE GO HOME UNLOAD CALL SOME BUDDIES OVER DRINKS TILL THE GOATS COME HOME AND i TELL YOU GUYS WHAT ALL YOU TEXANS AND ARIZONIANS WHATEVER AIN'T NOTHING THESE DAY'S. lIKE HOW THE OLD TIMERS SAYS THERE AIN'T NO MORE JOHN WAYNES IN THIS WORLD NO MORE, BUT I CAN TELL YOU ONE THING i AM 100% COWBOY.

Hahahahah all I did was ask what your net was. So just because I am from Texas I am a hack?? wow.

101Prolawns
01-13-2010, 11:12 PM
OH I AM PERSONALLY SORRY I REALLY DIDN'T MEAN IT IT JUST THAT SOME OF THESE DUDES ON HERE LIKE I GOT A REPLY FROM A GUY THAT IS THE GROUNDS MANGER AT SOME UNIVERSITY IN D.C. AND HE SAID I WAS A DUMBASS AND SOME ITHER DUDE SAID I WAS SLOW. YOU KNOW WHAT DUDE I DIDN'T SEE YOUR QUESTION i AM SOORY MY MOM SIDE OF THE FAMILY IS FROM MCALLEN AND YES I AM HALF MEXICAN SO YOU KNO W. OK i ALONE BRING HOME TO MY SELF $150,000 AND THEN THE REST I PUT UP YOUNEVER KNOW WHEN YOU MIGHT NEED SOMETHING OR SOMETHING MIGHT HAPPEN i DO BRING ALMOST $1,115,000 A YEAR. aND I DON'T JUST MOW I LANDSCAPE, SNOW MANAGEMENT AREATION AND TON'S MORE. i LIKE TO HELP PEOPLE OUT i DO RIGHT NOW HAVE 3 MOWING CREWS AND THEN i AHVE 1 CREW THAT LANDSCAPES AND I DO PAY MY MAIN MEN ABOUT $32,000 SALARIED AND THEN MY HOURLY GUYS EARN UP TO ABOUT $26,000 OR MORE A YEAR SO YEAH i DO GET ALOT OF MONEY AND I DO HAVE ALOT OF CREDIT. i BOUGHT A BRAND NEW TRUCK YESTERDAY FOR $33,000 AND SOMETHING AND YES IT WAS A FORD F-250 AND IT'S AN XLT 4X4 THIS TRUCK WE ARE GOING TO USE AS A FOURTH CREW. hAVE ANYMORE QUESTIONS JUST ASK.

AzLawnMan
01-13-2010, 11:16 PM
Take your bundles of cash and go to school. If you talk the way you write, then you may be in for some communication problems. My dad told me this along time ago and I have found it to be true more often than not. "PEOPLE THAT TALK ABOUT MONEY, DONT FUKENG HAVE IT".

101Prolawns
01-13-2010, 11:24 PM
No I don't talk the way I write either I type too damn fast and get in a hurry. My hands have been trained to work not type buddy. Smart Ass and I can tell you buy the way it sounds you probably drive a little 1990 ranger and mow with a little 36 inch piece of **** and have little weedeater from Wal-Mart and go knocking on doors all day long can I mow your yard? Please I need beer and gas money and i live with my mommy and daddy and they say I smoke too much weed and drink too much beer and I am a ******* BUM.

Raymond S.
01-14-2010, 07:48 AM
so where is your website?...I'd like to check out this lawncare monopoly you're setting up. I mean the #1 guy in Indiana has GOT to have a website right? Don't tell me, you get all your work word of mouth as a result of your charming personality.

SNAPPER MAN
01-14-2010, 07:53 AM
so where is your website?...I'd like to check out this lawncare monopoly you're setting up. I mean the #1 guy in Indiana has GOT to have a website right? Don't tell me, you get all your work word of mouth as a result of your charming personality.

AMEN!!! And like I said, you don't see some of the guys on here who have big companies coming on bragging about how much work they have and how they are better than everybody else. I think it's a bunch of bull crap.

Also 101Prolawns, WHY THE HELL would you buy a XLT for a work truck???????? That is just a pure waste of money.

mylawncarecompany
01-14-2010, 10:15 AM
Seems to me you have a problem being humble. If you are doing the amount of work your doing you should be sharing your success formula with other members of your trade, as that is the way to prove to people that your telling the truth about your business and not BSing everyone. It's quite obvious that you are a self centered person who regards fellow businessmen as being lower on the food chain then you are. If you are as successful as you say you wouldn't' be afraid of competition as competition only serves to make your business more successful. We have people around our area who act the same way and they are usually out of business in a few years because the customers figure out what AH's they are. You can answer this post if you want to but you won't be hearing from me again. I have much more important things to do than to sit around on a computer all day. Oh! I forgot you don't do that so I guess you won't have time to answer this post. Have a great day.:clapping::rolleyes:

Lugnut
01-14-2010, 10:48 AM
101...calm down dude. I know you're getting a little heated with people calling bs on you, but theres no need to start typing in caps. 1 or 2 people might have legitamitely pissed you off, but you're starting to piss off everyone else now. If you have the business you say you do, why are you so concerned with someone on the internet insulting you? Realistically I'm not half the size you are, but I'm comfortable enough with my business where if someone who doesn't know me doubts me, I could care less. You should have more important things to do and worry about. This board is for people to help each other out, whether its for opinions on a product or to bounce ideas off of. Lets try to keep this a little more positive.

topsites
01-14-2010, 11:41 AM
how to deal with the fact the ever single home owner seems to think they are your boss.

More than anything that's what ruined association-owned properties for me.
Everything else was tolerable, a few things barely, but tolerable.
Inexperience in that area however was the big bad fail in my case.

I won't touch another :laugh:

And I suppose that's something each and every Lco has to find out for themselves, are HOA's made for you?
Again the reason why I suggest starting out with something small, the reason is just in case it doesn't work out.
And if it isn't the first HOA fine, but again if it's too big to bid, I would probably leave it alone (maybe for later).

101Prolawns
01-14-2010, 04:20 PM
Mylawncarecompany
I am a very humble person, i don't curse unless someone pisses me off like them two guys marcsmith and azlawn dudes. they don't know me and I don't care if your 12 or 16 or 50 if you need some advice or a question give me a hollar anytime and I do have time. It ain't snowing and grass ain't growing right now.

101Prolawns
01-14-2010, 04:40 PM
This is for Raymond S. and Snapper man
The reason i don't have a website or you don't see me on google is because I have had the same customers since I was 11 except for Wal_mart and Sam's Club I got them 2 years ago. I have had the HOA's for 5 years now. I don't need anymore customers unless they have alot of money and need a pro to mow or landscape their property or whatever they need done. Now I have been thinking about making a website for billing and for out of state customers. I am waiting on Wal-Mart to give me a call for next year to see if they are going to let me do the lawn care in Cinncinatti, Ohio. And I have taken alot of businees away from Brickman Group and Davey Tree Services here in Indiana.
And yes I did do the door to door advertisement by myself. And I will give you some advice Snapperman. THE PRETTIER YOUR EQUIPMENT IS THE MORE CUSTOMERS YOU'LL GET, (NO LIE). I have people calling me all over the stat wanting me to do their landscape and lawn care. I have had peolple all in different staes call me cuase they have seen my work while visiting family or whatever. I tell you what how that works make sure you advertise your busness on all your customers yards with your business signs, Believe me it works. And another thing do you want to know I mow TONY STEWARTS YARD AND JOHN MELLANCAMP ONE HOUSE IN BLOOMINGTON, IN. If you do ever need advice or have any questions give me a hollar.

AzLawnMan
01-14-2010, 05:47 PM
Maybe you can teach me how to bullsh1t as much as you. I find it hard to do, only because I believe that honesty and hard work get you more business. Not how pretty my equipment looks. So if you can tell us all how to get customers "with alot of money" and throw in a few leasons on how to B.S. Like you. Please keep responding, I am teaching my 3 year old on how not to sound like an idiot.
Posted via Mobile Device

101Prolawns
01-14-2010, 08:13 PM
Ok Arizona you want to think bullshit. Last time I checked there ain't enough grass in Arizona to make Living off of not even landscaping. you want to talk sheet, Like I said about some of these guys on here are nobody, but lazy dumb ducks who still live with moomy and daddy and live off of them and how you make maney is you go around asking your neighbors and whoever who might have grass. Can I mow your grass, I'll mow it for $10 BUCKS. This my last reply to you. you have fun mowin whoever grass and go park your llittle mower up you a$$whole.

Wiljockey
01-14-2010, 10:43 PM
101Prolawns...you're a terrible speller.

dmunoz
01-15-2010, 06:26 PM
Ok you have no idea ok I mow all the Wal-marts in Indy down to Louisville and Sam's clubs and mainly all our customers are right buy there is none of this getting in the truck and going down the road all our clients are right buy another client it only takes me a half hour to mow 1 walmart and when it comes to a resident about 10 minutes NO JOKE and another thing My company don't get off work till 9:00 P.M. at night sometimes even later and we don't get no complaints because we do our best. And anothe r thing all my guys are salaried and they earn up to $32,000 a year and my third crew is not part time either he helps out whoever or we send him to other residents and another thing he by himself can mow two Wal-marts in 1 hour and 15 minutes all my guys are skilled and I don't have no lazy dumb ducks working for me and they do work on saturday morning till about 1 and then the have the rest of the day off. I don't bullcrapp anybody.

This is for Raymond S. and Snapper man
The reason i don't have a website or you don't see me on google is because I have had the same customers since I was 11 except for Wal_mart and Sam's Club I got them 2 years ago. I have had the HOA's for 5 years now. I don't need anymore customers unless they have alot of money and need a pro to mow or landscape their property or whatever they need done. Now I have been thinking about making a website for billing and for out of state customers. I am waiting on Wal-Mart to give me a call for next year to see if they are going to let me do the lawn care in Cinncinatti, Ohio. And I have taken alot of businees away from Brickman Group and Davey Tree Services here in Indiana.
And yes I did do the door to door advertisement by myself. And I will give you some advice Snapperman. THE PRETTIER YOUR EQUIPMENT IS THE MORE CUSTOMERS YOU'LL GET, (NO LIE). I have people calling me all over the stat wanting me to do their landscape and lawn care. I have had peolple all in different staes call me cuase they have seen my work while visiting family or whatever. I tell you what how that works make sure you advertise your busness on all your customers yards with your business signs, Believe me it works. And another thing do you want to know I mow TONY STEWARTS YARD AND JOHN MELLANCAMP ONE HOUSE IN BLOOMINGTON, IN. If you do ever need advice or have any questions give me a hollar.

If all of the above is true, and you're working all the time you are awake, how do you have time to sell door-to-door too??? And, you have a yahoo email account as if you're a one man show. It just doesn't add up.

silverado212
01-15-2010, 08:20 PM
101Prolawns, No disrespect but learn how to spell Cincinnati, then come down and take over our market. If you can take over all the HOAs and walmarts from brickman more power to ya. Just a heads up all the wally worlds I know of down here have about enough grass to bust out your trimmer for at best. I am a transplanted Hoosier and am a fan of Mellencamp and Smoke, Would you be so kind to get me an autograph from each prefer a COA on them though.

101Prolawns
01-15-2010, 08:34 PM
Ok Arizona like I said I am not mad just listen I have already said this to you guys. Now listen to me again. and i am not bragging, I am trying to explaint this to you. I started my own business when I was 11. I still have most of my customer since then. I have only lost since then lost 18 residential clients because of the economy out of 296 residential clients most of their yards are under 2 acres. As long as you tak care of them it should not take you that long to get them done and no i do not weedeat the grass all the way down the dirt. I mow all my clients yard on about 3.75 or 4.0 I have never mowed any higher or lower than that. Now like I have said I have had the same people for along time now my HOA"S I just got them 5 years ago and the Wal-marts and Sam's Club's I got them 2 years ago. I have said this that I don't need any more customers. And starting out when I was 11 years old. I did go do to door and to door and after that I started mowing lawns and doing landscaping by myself til about 16 I hired 2 other guys from school. We were in this program in our high school called C-4 which is a class where you can go to a job or go to another high school near by which is in the same county and take class or career study a job you might want to pursue after graduating high school or college. So I had my own business and I talked to my principle who I still my his yard today. And i asked him if I was able to pursue my own caree and he said he would have to get back with me on that. Well 2 days later he called me up to the office and he said that I could. Well I told my 2 good friends about it and they said they would like to help. So I hired them. Now this happened right after Christmas break my when I was a sophmore. Me and my buudies got together and we started talking about my customers and what I had planned for that coming up spring. Well i told them i only had 86 yards that I mwed after school during the mowing season. Well one of my buddies said hey my grandma lives in this HOA and said the guys that mowed it had nothing but junk walk behinds and they mowed like sheet and didn't trim wourth sheet either, so I said well where this HOA at and we all packed up into my truck and he lead us there and guess what them guys were out there mowing. So we pulled into the addition of HOA and looked around and it hadn't snowed yet the year so you could see their lines and all that. well there wasn't no lines, you could see where one of the mowers the mowed with was bent because you could see that one side was cutting too low than the other. Well my buddy who's grandma lived there told him a while back where the president of the HOA lived because she had him go take a check to the president to pay her dues or whatever. Well I told the both of them let's go see if he's home so we did and he and was and he was a very nice elderly man and he asked what he could help us with and I asked him if they were looking for someone for mowing and landscaping and He said yes. Well I asked him what are they looking for and he said someone who don't mow like these guys that do it now. Well I asked him why and who had hired them. Well I don't remeber what exactly what he said, but I do remember he did say it wasn't me and I think he did mention the price of what they were charging and i couldn't believe it $6.00 per yard. I remeber the look on his face after he had sked me what we would price them for and I told him $8.00 dollars per yard. He jumped up in the air and said where do I sign. The Only reason I got them was because every lawn care service was wanting that $20-30 dollars per yard. Now when the other HOA's heard about our price they called us up and we went commercial. Every day after our first three classe we headed out with 2 trucks and 3 mowers and etc. and we were in business. Then my senior year my mom got a job at the new 2nd Wal-mart store in our town and she was manager and long story short I got them and the Sam' club and then the CEO of Wal-Mart called me personally and sad that they have been thinking about going nationally which they did this past fall finally after hearing, Oh we're going nationally we're going nationally took a while, but it happened. That's how I became a sucessful Busness owner. Now can everybody relax about htis I am bullshittin everyone you now one of my competitors has 3 crews and makes over $800,000, but he does alot of big big properties i mean big, Like 15 acres and more, but he's hurting now because he does not spray like he's suppose to and he doesn't care about sheet. He wouldn't even lift a finger for anyone who was dieing right in front of him.

101Prolawns
01-15-2010, 08:43 PM
silverado212 I didn't take Wal-mart or the HOA's from Brickman I took alot of their residential and a few apartment complexes that G B glick own. They were getting tired of how they were mowing and not trimming and not pulling out the weeds when it says in their contract that they would everyweek that they are there. Read my reply i have for everyone.

dmunoz
01-15-2010, 09:58 PM
No HOA I know of "jumps up and down and yells Where Do I sign." You go through a bid process and the entire Board must choose their vendors (landscapers included). They have governing documents that they must abide by when hiring vendors. And, if you were a kid when you got your first HOA project, I'd like to know how you got your contractor's license. You must be licensed, bonded and insured (gen. liab., workers comp., auto, etc.) at the least to work for an HOA.

Raymond S.
01-15-2010, 10:08 PM
Man, I still think you're full of $hit but I've got to atleast give you an A for effort having spent all that time typing up that story. I'm sure it's partly true. I mean it's obvious you cut out of school perhaps missing English class after lunch to mow some grass with your buddies, I won't argue that. I figure you've probably got a nice handful of customers you've kept for several years because you are cheap, cheap, cheap, (like a bird) and you MAY have talked your mom's WalMart manager to let you do the strip of grass in the median next to the carts in the parking lot. I call bull$hit on the CEO of WalMart calling you, but it's a nice addition to the story perhaps making it somewhat believable to a few.
Hey, it really doesn't matter what we think about you on here because it's obvious you can type like a sonofabitch. It is what it is though. Take a week off, register under a new name (may I suggest #1IndianaLCO Thumbs Up) and come back with something a little less dramatic. We'll never know it was you...

Premier landscaping south
01-15-2010, 10:13 PM
In honor of the most gigantic post ever on lawnsite(101prolawn), Lets end the bickerin and get back to helping each other out.

LOL!

AzLawnMan
01-15-2010, 10:25 PM
Thats an awsome story, I do hope it comes true one day. Listen donkey, it's ok that daddy doesnt let you do your own thing yet. Listen to him and learn. I figure when your about, oh say 45 and he's ready to call it a life he may pass along an old walk behind and tell you to go at it. But until then, take your millions and go to your local high school and tell them they messed up and didnt teach you proper english. Whats funny about your story is that President Obama just called me on my personal cell phone and asked me to give him a bid. I also do Dale Sr's yard too. Wait, err. Yeah. Peace out in-bread

dmunoz
01-15-2010, 10:26 PM
In honor of the most gigantic post ever on lawnsite(101prolawn), Lets end the bickerin and get back to helping each other out.

LOL!

Well said! I don't think 101prolawn could have said it in such a short post.:)

1wezil
01-15-2010, 10:45 PM
This is for Raymond S. and Snapper man
The reason i don't have a website or you don't see me on google is because I have had the same customers since I was 11 except for Wal_mart and Sam's Club I got them 2 years ago. I have had the HOA's for 5 years now. I don't need anymore customers unless they have alot of money and need a pro to mow or landscape their property or whatever they need done. Now I have been thinking about making a website for billing and for out of state customers. I am waiting on Wal-Mart to give me a call for next year to see if they are going to let me do the lawn care in Cinncinatti, Ohio. And I have taken alot of businees away from Brickman Group and Davey Tree Services here in Indiana.
And yes I did do the door to door advertisement by myself. And I will give you some advice Snapperman. THE PRETTIER YOUR EQUIPMENT IS THE MORE CUSTOMERS YOU'LL GET, (NO LIE). I have people calling me all over the stat wanting me to do their landscape and lawn care. I have had peolple all in different staes call me cuase they have seen my work while visiting family or whatever. I tell you what how that works make sure you advertise your busness on all your customers yards with your business signs, Believe me it works. And another thing do you want to know I mow TONY STEWARTS YARD AND JOHN MELLANCAMP ONE HOUSE IN BLOOMINGTON, IN. If you do ever need advice or have any questions give me a hollar.

I'm SORRY BUT NOW YOU ARE REALLY :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::l augh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

TerraScapesMT
01-15-2010, 11:20 PM
Ok, honestly im pretty sure this is just some kid that has nothing better to do than to screw around and make up stories. I bet he thinks it is just hilarious too.... So I think everyone should just ignore him. There is no way that someone that talks or acts like this could run a million + dollar company.

101Prolawns
01-15-2010, 11:32 PM
OK everybody believe what you want to believe I'm done, If anybody does need advice from a real expert whoe doesn't work for cheap and earns his money for doing a great job at what he does and knows what he is talking about. And you will see me on here still as 101Prolawns boys.

mike174
01-16-2010, 12:13 AM
Ok you have no idea ok I mow all the Wal-marts in Indy down to Louisville and Sam's clubs and mainly all our customers are right buy there is none of this getting in the truck and going down the road all our clients are right buy another client it only takes me a half hour to mow 1 walmart and when it comes to a resident about 10 minutes NO JOKE and another thing My company don't get off work till 9:00 P.M. at night sometimes even later and we don't get no complaints because we do our best. And anothe r thing all my guys are salaried and they earn up to $32,000 a year and my third crew is not part time either he helps out whoever or we send him to other residents and another thing he by himself can mow two Wal-marts in 1 hour and 15 minutes all my guys are skilled and I don't have no lazy dumb ducks working for me and they do work on saturday morning till about 1 and then the have the rest of the day off. I don't bullcrapp anybody. And I do get up to $800,000 from Wal-Mart and then I get the rest from my HOA's and my residents. So yeah i do get over a million dollars a year and I am proud of my work and my customers are proud of me. And another thing I have been even thinking about putting a truck and trailer in Cinncinatti next year. That will be another $100,000 or more from there. Buddy I am 22 year's old i started when i was 11 and grew and grew By 16 i had 150 customers. I do believe I know what i am talking about when it comes to the LAWNCARE AND LANDSCAPING BUSINESS. I DON'T BULLSHEET I JUST DO MY WORK AND GO ON FROM THERE.



Please tell us that you have better grammar and communication skills when you submit commercial bids. No offense, but I would never sign a contract written by you. Maybe you pay a lawyer to compose your contracts?

101Prolawns
01-16-2010, 05:51 AM
For mike 174 I do not have no crooked lawyer type up any of my contracts. I have never had to get a lawyer for anything. Just because I might add to many letters in a word or whatever. I don't care what you think, this is just web site so all us lawncare guys can give advice or communicate through each other. I make them out the old fashion way. Now the only reason for someone to have a lawyer type up their contracts or whatever you are looking at guys like Brickman, Mainscapes or whoever that is national. Because in like Brickman contracts which I have seen are pretty strict. Say if one of their customers wanted to change mowing crews in the middle of the season. they can sue your butt for the rest of the seasons cash and they would win.

AzLawnMan
01-16-2010, 04:02 PM
For mike 174 I do not have no crooked lawyer type up any of my contracts. I have never had to get a lawyer for anything. Just because I might add to many letters in a word or whatever. I don't care what you think, this is just web site so all us lawncare guys can give advice or communicate through each other. I make them out the old fashion way. Now the only reason for someone to have a lawyer type up their contracts or whatever you are looking at guys like Brickman, Mainscapes or whoever that is national. Because in like Brickman contracts which I have seen are pretty strict. Say if one of their customers wanted to change mowing crews in the middle of the season. they can sue your butt for the rest of the seasons cash and they would win.

Vice President Biden just gave me a call and said you provide terrible service. He said he couldnt understand a word you said. His words not mine. Oh and I start mowing the lawn at the White House next week. I also just picked up the national contract for Wal-Mart, so step into my office, cause your fukking fired.

motorscot
01-16-2010, 04:32 PM
For Grassmasterwilson,

And now back to the real discussion:

http://www.gopherforum.com/showthread.php?t=7898

Try using this calculator. It should allow you to input all of your variables. Fill out the first one, hit enter, get your total minutes, then input the minutes into the second form. Hit refresh to restart if necessary.

I hope this helps you out.

bock
03-03-2010, 03:44 AM
Hahaha wow. This prolawns is a goon. Snap a pic of your truck and equipment and we will drop it. No need to show boat on here. All I want is a little proof. Your a creep man. As of now your story isnt adding up, seriously your age kept changing from 11 to 12 when you started mowing!

Anybody in his area ever herd of this spook?!

I dont like liars.

Just come clean and we can all pretend this never happened. It's ok we wont ground you. As of right now you are using a farily large bobcat to dig your grave..say a T-650? :laugh:

yardatwork
03-03-2010, 08:11 AM
I had a 50 condo HOA...I was getting $18.50 per home. Took me and a worker 6-7 hours, bagged full prop, trimmed full prop, and blew all drives and sidewalks. Typically take what you'd normally get for a lawn that size (based on one unit) and cut that price in half, then multiply that by the number of units. You'll make tons of cash vs. mowing that number of units all over town. Your hourly rate will be higher than typical hourly on an average day. It's bulk pricing...just like good ol Wal-Mart!

Weekend cut easymoney
03-04-2010, 06:43 PM
I like reading the posts by 101promouth--

Son, there is nothing worse than a guy who brags about how much his stuff don't stink or about how many lawns he mows--you ain't gotta brag or beat people up on this forum, it sounds like you do well enough--so try and be a little more humble--

--People don't pay me to run my mouth or look at my nice truck--I do just fine without either--whatever works for you--just go have at it-