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Lazer Cut
01-11-2010, 10:14 AM
Hey guys

Need some help on what to use on day care center playgrounds. There are bare spots and the playground is just thin grass... mostly bluegrass that is just thinned over wear and tear.

I was thinking of a 80/20 blend of perennial rye w/ bluegrass or a 50/50 blend of perennial rye w/ bluegrass. I am having a hard time getting in touch with lesco. Dont say google it and order from them because the link to their grass seed products does not work. Also, there is a John Deere dealer but they have not been able to find out what would work best. The guy is really uninformative for working at the dealer. Only other dealer is a good 30-45 min.

Could someone recommend the type theyd use? I was thinking of dormant seeding next month that way when it starts to warm up the seed will germinate more quickly but a lot of the seed could rot. little inexperienced in this aspect of the lawn care... Any ideas, pit falls, recommendations?

Thanks guys,
Justin

oh... I know most have insurance but I just got my certificate for insurance!!!!! :cool2: extremely excited!!! landed 7 commercial properties for this upcoming year... sent a copy of my insurance to all of them yesterday. (in my contracts stated that I will provide proof of insurance before starting any work) All were ok with me providing it at a later date. :)


p.s.- if you wanna bash me for asking for help dont leave a comment i dont need your negativity.

The Rookie
01-11-2010, 10:24 AM
I know I am going to get shot down by others for suggesting this. But I planted ky31tall fescue in my backyard this fall and it has outperformed anything I have ever tried, including falcon3,4, rebel, kybluegrass, perenial rye grass. It seemed like the 31 took less time to mature and I can tell it is going to absorb traffic well. The only thing I dislike about it is that the green color is a little lighter than turf type tall fescue. But we are talking about a daycare here where pretty much anything you plant will have wear spots from kid traffic.

Smallaxe
01-11-2010, 10:46 AM
I don't believe that grass seed will rot when out on the ground, unless it is dead seed. Warm enough to rot, warm enough to germinate.
Another option - put down annual ryegrass to supplement the perennials.

Lazer Cut
01-11-2010, 10:53 AM
forgot to add i would like something to pop up quick thats why 80/20 blend but be able to withstand the kids... I will also be fertilizing and could use help on that too


one key thing is I will be slit-seeding the playground area.

Lazer Cut
01-11-2010, 10:55 AM
I just do not want to pick a 50/50 blend and the kids bluegrass not get a chance to come up and get a nice hold. 80/20 blend would have the rye pop up quickly and let the bluegrass get a chance to come up slowly... maybe flawed in my thinking? lol

thanks for the help guys. keep the advice coming

JB1
01-11-2010, 10:56 AM
get KY 31 , its like green asphalt.

Lazer Cut
01-11-2010, 10:58 AM
Ok... any suggestion in what brand?

The Rookie
01-11-2010, 11:00 AM
I forgot to mention turner seed companies 5 way fescue. It has 5 different types of fescue mixed together. It blends well with existing turf. I would stay away from annual ryegrass. Slit seeding in 2 to 3 directions would encourage a thick turf. I personally dislike fertilizers unless they are organic. I would make sure to get a pesticide applicators license in case a little kid gets sick and the parents seen you applying fertilizer and decide to blame you.

Lazer Cut
01-11-2010, 11:14 AM
ill most likely be subbing out the fert and weed part

The Rookie
01-11-2010, 11:20 AM
Dormant seeding works good also if you get a snowfall ontop of the seeds. Snow has nitrogen in it and when it melts it helps your seed to soil contact.

Lazer Cut
01-11-2010, 11:24 AM
Great I will most likely use ky 31... I will be slit-seeding in Feb.

Lazer Cut
01-11-2010, 11:24 AM
I researched it online and it looks like a tough grass... would be great if it lasted till the end of summer with no bare spots or small bare spot here or there.

The Rookie
01-11-2010, 11:26 AM
Hope you have a good 2010 season. Need any opinions, lol, lawnsite is the place to be.

JB1
01-11-2010, 11:27 AM
I researched it online and it looks like a tough grass... would be great if it lasted till the end of summer with no bare spots or small bare spot here or there.



would we tell you wrong.

Lazer Cut
01-11-2010, 11:47 AM
haha no you guys would never try to trick someone...

thanks. Wish everybody the best for 2010 season. Hope its $$$$$$$ for all

Kiril
01-11-2010, 01:34 PM
TTTF would be my choice.

Lazer Cut
01-11-2010, 02:16 PM
TTTF? What's that time to try fertilizer lol?

Enlighten me please
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Lazer Cut
01-11-2010, 04:17 PM
tttf.... turf type tall fescue?
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Kiril
01-11-2010, 04:24 PM
tttf.... turf type tall fescue?
Posted via Mobile Device

Yes. This blend would be ideal for the type of application.

http://www.sroseed.com/Products/PDF/defianceXRE_ts.pdf

Marcos
01-11-2010, 04:46 PM
I am having a hard time getting in touch with lesco. Dont say google it and order from them because the link to their grass seed products does not work. Also, there is a John Deere dealer but they have not been able to find out what would work best. The guy is really uninformative for working at the dealer. Only other dealer is a good 30-45 min.



Hi Justin.

The people who work in the Lesco in Sharonville off Crescentville are absoluletly terrible in terms of product knowledge & customer relations, and it's been this way ever since they moved this operation from a older smaller building that was farther to the west close to SR 747.
That's why I switched personal loyalties & go to SW Landmark in Lebanon, or the Lesco near the Dayton Mall area if I happen to be doing something up that way.
In this biz, knowledge & customer service is everything, on both sides of the counter. :waving:

Here's a link for a company in West Chester / Fairfield called Cincinnati Wholesale Supply, or CWS:
http://www.cincycws.com/

CWS in your area is on Port Union Rd west of 747 on the left.
They sell seed & give decent advice, too.
(This time of year they sell mostly salt, though.)


If you don't get satisfaction there, try the Feed Barn of West Chester:

http://thefeedbarn.com/

They're a little higher in price, but excellant people to deal with.
Ask for Mark, the "park narc"
He'll know right away who sent ya!:laugh:

Marcos
01-11-2010, 05:20 PM
Hey guys


Could someone recommend the type theyd use? I was thinking of dormant seeding next month that way when it starts to warm up the seed will germinate more quickly but a lot of the seed could rot. little inexperienced in this aspect of the lawn care... Any ideas, pit falls, recommendations?



We've PM'ed a little about bluegrass & perennial rye.
Now you're considering a blend of ttt fescues, or straight KY 31 fescue.

I will in no way bash the durability aspects of fescue in S Ohio.
But at the same time, we're talking about seeding in February, and the relatively s-l-o-w germination tendencies of fescue compared to other species, ESPECIALLY rye.
And who knows exactly when the day care providers at each specific facility will be letting the little rut rats loose to run around & start the slow but inevitable process of destroying your work? We could have 2 week's worth of decent weather at the end of February & the beginning of March- maybe more than enough foot traffic to do it in just at the time it's trying to come up! :cry:

Early season traffic is the primary reason why I believe you should stick w/ your original plan of bluegrass & rye.
An 80%/20% (by weight) rye/blue blend is actually close to 65/35 by seed count because an individual bluegrass seed is much smaller than rye, so use something very close to 80/20 by weight.
If you seed heavily enough (8-10# / 1000 sq ft) there should be plenty of bluegrass there to begin throwing out rhizomes, & hopefully the rye will withstand the stampede of kids long enough for this to happen.
I'm pretty sure the Lesco name for either 80/20 or 75/25 is 'Eagle Blend plus Blue'.
CWS, the Feed Barn, or Shemins Nursery (on Muhlhauser s of 275) can probably find you equivalents if Lesco people are too inept to help you.

Snowy66
01-11-2010, 10:18 PM
Hey Marcos. Could you send me those PM's you sent to Lazer? I've got a new commercial property that has some islands in the parking lot. They are always bear and they want me to plant grass that will pop quick and maybe stand up to people walking on them.

Lazer Cut
01-11-2010, 11:03 PM
Haha... lone oak I was asking questions while he answered and gave me good answers previous to this thread it was a conversation over a few days...

Marcos- I called the place in fairfield and talked to a guy about 30 min and have decided on the contractors blend and add bag of rye just so I can mix it in. He said its their toughest blend (withstand heavy traffic)

So thanks guys for the ky 31 and thanks marcos... found who I will buy from... ill mention your name and maybe you'll get a kick back or something. Ill be buying a lot of seed.
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Marcos
01-12-2010, 12:05 PM
Haha... lone oak I was asking questions while he answered and gave me good answers previous to this thread it was a conversation over a few days...

Marcos- I called the place in fairfield and talked to a guy about 30 min and have decided on the contractors blend and add bag of rye just so I can mix it in. He said its their toughest blend (withstand heavy traffic)

So thanks guys for the ky 31 and thanks marcos... found who I will buy from... ill mention your name and maybe you'll get a kick back or something. Ill be buying a lot of seed.
Posted via Mobile Device

No problem, Justin.
I haven't been to CWS in Fiarfield since we got out of the salt biz a number of years ago.
They're too far away from our core of customers to make it worth our while to go there, but thanks for the plug anyway, and good luck! :waving:

dcjb
01-19-2010, 09:02 PM
just wondering, can anyone tell me how soon i can over seed here in northeast pa.
this person wants everything bagged when mowing. so has to have time to grow before frist mowing. i know, should of done it last fall.
thanks

Smallaxe
01-20-2010, 08:05 AM
just wondering, can anyone tell me how soon i can over seed here in northeast pa.
this person wants everything bagged when mowing. so has to have time to grow before frist mowing. i know, should of done it last fall.
thanks

You can put seed down anytime that it is convenient during the dormant periods of turf. This is called dormant seeding. Just be careful it doesn't wash away with the spring thaw.

Northern grasses are said to germinate, when soil temps reach 50 degrees F. This is true whether you are in PA or Wisco.
Good luck. :)

garydale
01-20-2010, 11:28 AM
You are describing dormant seeding, where grass seed is planted late in fall so it stays dormant until spring. Then as conditions warm in spring, the seed is already in place and ready to germinate. The time to dormant seed would be the last week of November. The seed should be planted so there is good seed to soil contact. In the event we get early snow, do not plant the seed over the snow.

Dormant seeding has risks, so if a large area is to be planted, you may want to consider waiting until spring to do so. Winter weather conditions are unpredictable. Ideally a snow cover is desired over a dormant seeded area to help assure the seed stays in place. Warmer than normal conditions without snow cover is one of the potential problems with dormant seeding.

RigglePLC
01-20-2010, 10:09 PM
Grass really does not grow much at temps below 50. I think it is best to wait until the greenup date in your neighborhood. April 15 around here, (about a week before the first mowing). Does not matter when you sow the seed--nothing happens until it is warm enough in spring. If you are in a hurry---consider pre-germinated rye blends. It takes some skill and equipment. Something like warm water in a warm room, with air bubbled through the solution, 24 to 48 hours and rye is partially germinated. Sow it and amazing--grass in 72 hours.
http://www.sportsturfonline.com/ME2/Audiences/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=Publishing&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle&mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F791&tier=4&id=43AA1E9353AE4925B67DB000886544FE&AudID=374222F1A4794C91A8E3D4464352DF70

http://www.lawnsite.com/archive/index.php/t-85265.html

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1125529/3/index.htm

Smallaxe
01-20-2010, 11:49 PM
You are describing dormant seeding, where grass seed is planted late in fall so it stays dormant until spring. Then as conditions warm in spring, the seed is already in place and ready to germinate. The time to dormant seed would be the last week of November. The seed should be planted so there is good seed to soil contact. In the event we get early snow, do not plant the seed over the snow.

Dormant seeding has risks, so if a large area is to be planted, you may want to consider waiting until spring to do so. Winter weather conditions are unpredictable. Ideally a snow cover is desired over a dormant seeded area to help assure the seed stays in place. Warmer than normal conditions without snow cover is one of the potential problems with dormant seeding.

The point I tried to make was that, the earlier the better.
Oherwise, I agree.
B4 snow is definately best. After snow is also good. Seed on the open ground in Spring, is exposed to the freezing/thawing cycle. This process sows the seed into the surface, so it is at the correct level in the soil, to pop, as soon as the temps rise. Hopefully there is enough moisture at that time. :)

Lazer Cut
01-21-2010, 12:04 AM
So what you guys recommend will work for doing my daycare centers? I have to slit seed 5 daycare center playground areas... three outta the five have nice grass established... the other 2 not so good
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Smallaxe
01-21-2010, 08:08 AM
So what you guys recommend will work for doing my daycare centers? I have to slit seed 5 daycare center playground areas... three outta the five have nice grass established... the other 2 not so good
Posted via Mobile Device

You can look around and believe what some of the ads say about durability, but your best bet is to get the seed mix that is sold in your area, and exercise the cultural practices that are going to make it healthy and strong.
Kids are as bad as dogs, so don't sweat it. Plant clover in those places. Kids like to eat the white clover heads.

Lazer Cut
01-21-2010, 08:13 AM
Haha I'm gettin a contractors blend recommended for this area... guy I'm ordering it through said its a great seed.

So I will be slit seeding mid feb

Thanks for all the replies
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garydale
01-21-2010, 10:03 AM
ill most likely be subbing out the fert and weed part

Lazer,
Coordinate with sub contracter.
The last thing you need is for the sub toapply a pre- emergent before the seed is up and growing.

greenbaylawns
01-21-2010, 10:28 AM
Yes. This blend would be ideal for the type of application.

http://www.sroseed.com/Products/PDF/defianceXRE_ts.pdf

I like this type to.

Smallaxe
01-21-2010, 10:42 AM
Lazer,
Coordinate with sub contracter.
The last thing you need is for the sub toapply a pre- emergent before the seed is up and growing.

Hahaha, that would be too much of Murphy's Law. Could always blame it on the kids, tearing about during playtime. :)

Marcos
01-21-2010, 11:30 AM
Dormant seeding has risks, so if a large area is to be planted, you may want to consider waiting until spring to do so. Winter weather conditions are unpredictable. Ideally a snow cover is desired over a dormant seeded area to help assure the seed stays in place. Warmer than normal conditions without snow cover is one of the potential problems with dormant seeding.

A contractor's dormant seed job could be doomed if spring doesn't decide to pop until late, and as a result the seed just sits there unprotected, often on soggy ground, rotting. :cry:
Believe me, I've been down this road a few times before!

The guy who mentored me in seeding back in the late '70s & early '80s said it best:
"Seeding is an absolute throw of the dice any time of year you do it."

Most of us know from experience the least risk in seed work is doing it in late summer / early fall.
That's where I like to place my chips.

And as far as in-season seeding is concerned, some words of wisdom for anyone who cares to listen :
The more you can educate your clients about proper watering- pre and post seed germination, the better the likelihood you & the customer are going to walk away from each other happy, and the higher the likelihood that you're going to get paid! :laugh:

Marcos
01-21-2010, 11:48 AM
Hahaha, that would be too much of Murphy's Law. Could always blame it on the kids, tearing about during playtime. :)

garydale's absolutely not kidding here!
I wish I had a dollar for every time I've been treated to this March-April sob story thru the years around town......."XYZ Lawn Care put their 1st (or 2nd) round pre-emergent on my seed work & killed it!!" :wall

RigglePLC
01-21-2010, 03:25 PM
Sorry to be a little negative. Do not guarantee anything at all. And the seed: "Contractor's Blend" isn't that another phrase for cheapest possible? I like Lesco "Atheltic Blend". Exactly what varieties does the CB contain? Disease resistant? Percent germination? When was it tested for germination? Remember the germination declines 2 or 3 percent a month after testing, (particularly if stored under warm humid conditions). What is the percent weed seed? Noxious weeds? K-31? Annual bluegrass? Annual rye? A top-quality rye like "Amazing" or "Derby Xtreme" is a good bet. Add a top blue like "Limousine" or "Northstar". Maybe add "Aztec" TTTF.
Always plant a sample of 100 seeds and keep it inside in your office in a coffee cup. If they don't water, you have evidence that the seed is fine under proper conditions. Read their water meter before and after, so you know how much water they actually used.
Is the site irrigated? Why was it thin to start with? Has the cause of thinness been corrected? Soil test? Is soil compacted? Need aeration? Shade problem? Are they capable and willing to water every day for 30 days after planting? You are using starter fert, right? And a starter booster after 4 weeks? Are you planning on weed control after the second mowing? Crabgrass control just after the new grass is established, but before crabgrass comes up? Sensitive site with all those kids--what are state pesticide laws? Can you spray Friday night, or Friday before a long weekend (watering-in after 24 hours) to reduce chemical exposure?

Smallaxe
01-21-2010, 04:36 PM
I agree, Riggle, that some seed may perform a little better, and could maybe have an extra 5 or 6 blades per k, once the kids are done with recess. However, I think the point made on the "Alamo" segment, is a valid one. Water twice a week, and aerate twice a month, & mow, almost daily.

I have clients that I shouldn't even bother with 'perennial seed', let alone Quality perennial seed. Put some "Quick Lawn" down and try to keep it alive til winter. :laugh:

You can only spend money for quality seed, on clients that are going to care for the lawn, long term.

ecoguy
01-26-2010, 05:43 PM
Speaking of Pre Emergents, I plan to debut CGM for some new customers this year. Around here the best time to apply it would be the first part of March. Knowing this, how long do you recommend I wait before overseeding? May?

garydale
01-27-2010, 05:27 PM
Speaking of Pre Emergents, I plan to debut CGM for some new customers this year. Around here the best time to apply it would be the first part of March. Knowing this, how long do you recommend I wait before overseeding? May?

Take the CGM question to the organic guys. I don't eat, smoke or preach that crap.

The Rookie
01-27-2010, 08:09 PM
I planted some grass seed when this was first posted and now I am mowing it. lol just kidding.