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steveair
05-26-2002, 09:39 PM
Hello,

A few weeks ago I mentioned a job involving a pool with a concrete patio to be overlayed with pavers and coping installed.

Well, I got the job and the guy decided he wanted it done by memorial day weekend (which, didn' t happen) but I am running into a few problems.

The pool itself is fiberglass, with fiberglass coping. Concrete was poured around the pool, level with the top of the fiberglass pool coping.

What's a good adhesive to use to fasten coping to the pool? I was going to use PL300, but can't locate any in my area, so am thinking LEXEL may be the best option.

Also, the pool, well, it is a MESS. When they installed it, they must of tweaked it or something, because the hole edge is all twisted up and many sections of the cap don't sit level and or are high/lower than others.

Any ideas any way to level a few spots out? Problem is, because the pool is so messed up, the concrete guys really messed up the concrete around the pool (for instance, its a 3500 sq foot patio and it all pitches towards the pool) and in some spots the concrete is higher than the pool itself and others its lower. I want to grind some areas, but then that will cause problems with my pavers meeting up with the capstones later on.

I really don't know why I took this job!

By the way, anyone have experiecne with cantilever concrete forms? I'm thinking this may be the only solution if I can't get this coping to level out.

I'm gonna try and get some pictures up to give a better idea of the situation.

steve

creative concepts
05-26-2002, 10:28 PM
Hello Steve,

A good adhesive would be PL400. It will bond better than the PL300 and I believe it is about 1000psi stronger when cured. I am pretty sure that Rowley building supply in Sparta carries it in stock. How far off is the coping from level? If it is not to drastic (sp?) you can cut the bottom of the paver to compensate. As far as the concrete pad being higher/lower in spots, that will all depend. If it is not to bad, you can place a thin layer of stone dust down to compensate which will also help with the coping problem without having to cut the pavers. The biggest problem that I see and unfortunately do not have an answer for is the pitch. I do not know of any easy way to correct this problem without running into a great deal of work. I hope this helps and if you could provide more details, I will try to help you out the best that I can.

steveair
05-26-2002, 10:44 PM
Thanks Chris,

I didn't know about the PL400 so will take a look into that. Job is kind of a 'rush' job, so I'm taking it as it comes if you know what I mean.

The pool really is a mess......I really wanted to rip all the concrete up, but its 8" thick and over 3000 sq feet worth......plus he just had it done a year ago. One of those pride things at this point....he could afford to rip it up but won't admit he was wrong.

The homeowner is a interesting person to say the least.....he's one of those 'DIY's who seems to want to be involved in everything but has no clue what he is doing.....why he had the concrete poured in the first place I'll never now, and why he LET them do it the way they did it I'll never know. For instance, they even put a smooth finish on it.......why!

I'm using the new techo block neptune pool coping cap.....Really nice stuff by the way.....the Granitex finish is beautiful....really looks sharp.......but not on this job!

The pool is more like a giant jacuzzi.......has seats, and all sorts of turns......What a nightmare cutting it in.......took 2 days alone to do 100 running feat of cap around it.

(by the way, the BX-3 I purchased after talking to you worked great cutting the capstones!....thanks for the advice)

How far is it off......afraid you might ask.....completely around the pool, there is up to a 1.5" difference in the water height to top of rim. It's not a 'consistent difference' either......one spot is a inch low, one is a inch high, one in the middle, etc. etc.

I'm really upset with the results so far.....but the homeowner is ticked pink.........one of those jobs where you say "if there happy then I guess I'm happy"

I have a mason coming in on wed. to possibly give some suggestions. He's been there already and pretty much was speechless...........not what I wanted to hear!

To say the least, I've been in close contact with the homowner and have explained to him all of the problems that he has.....like the fact all of the sand in the joints will end up in his pool! I guess it will be a true test for polymerized sand!

I really just want to stick to my little 300 sq foot patios and nice little walkways from now on!

steve

Lanelle
05-26-2002, 11:03 PM
The thing that is critical at this point is to get the pre-existing problems documented in writing. Basically when you start working on a site, you are accepting the condition in which you found it. Since there are many problems created by someone else you might consider writing it all down and having the homeowner sign off that you aren't going to change the underlying situation. Good luck on making it turn out ok.

paul
05-27-2002, 11:39 PM
I would use a 2 part epoxy, it holds up to the freeze thaw better than all the other adhesives I've used and it will not degrade with pool chemicals. You can get it at most construction supply houses. I don't recall the cost per tube, but the special gun is about $150.

creative concepts
05-28-2002, 10:29 PM
Steve,

A little update on the BX-3 saw. My blade, which was still the original after a lot of cuts, was worn down to the welds. I replaced it with a different saw blade with smaller vent shafts. I do not recall the manufacturer off hand, but when the time comes that you need a new blade let me know. So far it seems to cut faster and leaves a cleaner edge.
Unfortunately, with there being that much of a difference around the pool, there really is not anything that I can think of that will help. As Lanelle stated, put everything in writting so it does not come back to haunt you. Sorry I could not be of much help to you.

AGLA
05-29-2002, 07:17 AM
Can you use a different material for the coping that can cantelever out over the fiberglass coping. ...maybe even large river stones several inches thick that have the center of gravity well off the pool... that will get your grade at pool side high enough to get positive drainage. This could make this cheap pool look like a really nice one. I would use mortar on the bricks too. If you don't, the water will move toward the pool in your base material or trap and foul things up. The client has got to realize that he has a big problem and you can not stick your neck out so that he can have a cheap solution. Glueing a coping is not a good idea especially with dry laid brick behind it and a drainage issue.

kris
05-29-2002, 08:04 AM
Originally posted by steveair
Hello,

I really don't know why I took this job!


steve

Steve,

I hope your making a bundle of money on this. ...

Sometimes you have to know when to say "no thanks".

steveair
05-29-2002, 07:27 PM
Hello,

Thanks for all the help so far guys and girls:)

Paul, I went with the epoxy idea today. For some of the really bad spots, my mason nailed down some wire mesh over the coping and wet laid some of the caping units. Everywhere else, I used the epoxy and glued them down.....I won't lie, there are a 'few' pennies every now then to level a few out, but they were very solid when I left.

Got some pics of the job here to give a better idea:

http://communities.msn.com/GuidosEquipmentPics/trailerpicssteveair.msnw?Page=Last

These were taking last week when I finished cutting the cap. You can see the one spot on the turn where it really takes a dip.

Things are looking a little better now that they are glued and leveled.

Next comes the pavers! Any new ideas?

I'm thinking I'm going to mix up a portland/stone dust mix and dry screed using a board from the top of the coping (cut a notch to get my right elevation) out to the existing concrete, about 8 feet, and blend it into the existing grade of the concrete. . Then wet it down a little and let it harden up. Next, I'll go around and do the same for any low spots and swells around the pool and wet down a let dry..... then I'm thinking I'll just dry lay the pavers on top of the hardend dust and then use polymerized sand/or maybe mix some portland in.with sand and sweep that into the joints. I'm hoping that evne though they will be sitting on concrete, the sand filling the gaps will stop them from tetering too much, and that will eliminate problems that may be associated with having dust underneath.

steve

kris
05-30-2002, 12:22 AM
Steve,

If there is anyone that can make this job turn out "ok" with the most effort to make sure the quality is the highest under the circumstances ...its you . Good luck with it.