Microbes After CT Application

[JDUtah]

Anyone have any data on what happens to the microbes after the application? So much attention has been given to microbes during brewing, but what happens when you apply it? After all, isn't that the most important part?

Peer reviewed, observed under a microscope, type data please.

(Yes, I am playing devils advocate. Every now and then I like to stir the pot and make people wonder if CT's are the right way to go in organic fertilizing. I think some get caught up in how fascinating it is, and lose focus on the end goal.)

[Smallaxe]

Better yet,

What is on your lawn, under the microscope, b4 the CT app?

Then, what is on your lawn, under the microscpe, 2 weeks after the CT app?

Followed by the same schedule, with a nutrient soil test. :)

Finally... How does that compare to dry compost apps?

[phasthound]

Anyone have any data on what happens to the microbes after the application? So much attention has been given to microbes during brewing, but what happens when you apply it? After all, isn't that the most important part?

Peer reviewed, observed under a microscope, type data please.

(Yes, I am playing devils advocate. Every now and then I like to stir the pot and make people wonder if CT's are the right way to go in organic fertilizing. I think some get caught up in how fascinating it is, and lose focus on the end goal.)

The Soil Foodweb Lab may help you out with this data. They recommend doing soil bio-assays before and after AACT applications.

[ICT Bill]

Anyone have any data on what happens to the microbes after the application? So much attention has been given to microbes during brewing, but what happens when you apply it? After all, isn't that the most important part?

Peer reviewed, observed under a microscope, type data please.

Any peer review data is going to be hard to come by as it is usually proprietary by nature, for instance the soil food web has plenty of data like this, loads and loads in fact. But someone else paid for the test or they are testing on certain farms and will keep the information close to the vest unless you would like to pay for it

We have soil bio-assay's from many of our ongoing trials with national franchises, I can't show it here because it is there information not ours

There is a ton of information around the world on "plant growth promoting rhizobacteria" google it you will be surprised at how much. These are typically DNA tests that show which specific one is plant growth promoting and in what numbers

some of the issues at hand are: SFI testing will only tell you that you have XXX amount of bacteria and XXX amount of fungi, how much is active and how much total, they cannot identify each specific microbe

DNA testing can but it is so expensive it is basically impossible to do unless you are a professor trying to prove a hypothesis

There are a whole host of critters in the soil normally, not true in new construction or if the soil has had a major disturbance like fire or flood. The existing critters have a leg up on anything applied to the soil, they already have food resources and take up space in the soil

If you were to try to unseat me from the dinner table when I was eating......well good luck!

So the new guys need food resources so that they can get settled or if they are in spore or dormant form, they will sit there until the environment is right and then begin to make colonies

This is one of the issues of comparing fertilizer to CT, it is an apples to volkswagon comparison

CT needs to be applied several times in order to get enough colonization to make a difference. We often get calls that say "I applied your CT once and didn't see any difference', our standard reply is "it is not a fertilizer, it is part of an overall soil fertility program"

We worked with a very well known mycologist to come up with the mycorrhizae application rate that we use, we should be able to get 70%+ colonization over a 2 year period with 4 applications per year

The key word is "should" soils are different and disturbances happen

There is no solid answer to this question but you can make educated guesses, if you are applying CT 4 or 5 times a year along with other cultural practices you should have a pretty good stand of turf or landscape in no time, in a few years you should have very few inputs

Now which good guys lasted or didn't is almost unknowable because you never knew who they were in the first place
I think I just made more questions than I answered

[Tim Wilson]

This is a very good point David and something I'm working on a way to illustrate. I have looked at a soil last year which had never had CT applied to it and I recorded a base, gave the grower a free brewer and was going to get samples periodically. The grower ended up quitting on me. I can use my soil but it has already had CT for years. I will get this done though. It just takes time, energy and resources. Right now I'm laid up with a broken femur.

[ICT Bill]

This is a very good point David and something I'm working on a way to illustrate. I have looked at a soil last year which had never had CT applied to it and I recorded a base, gave the grower a free brewer and was going to get samples periodically. The grower ended up quitting on me. I can use my soil but it has already had CT for years. I will get this done though. It just takes time, energy and resources. Right now I'm laid up with a broken femur.

Tim, have you been out kicking too much butt, YIKES I'll bet that hurt

[starry night]

Tim, have you been out kicking too much butt, YIKES I'll bet that hurt

Or did one of your donkeys get you?

[Smallaxe]

Another question might be, why does it matter so much about the , 'whos'? The good workers are the ones that grow in the turf. If they don't grow in the turf then the enivironment needs to change so that they can grow in the turf. Correct water and feed will be what keeps a microherd active.

Its like a road crew with picks and shovels, working their way around the hillside, on the mountain. As long as you see them going in the right direction it doesn't matter what their names are, nor their DNA record. But when you see them going off course to the point of wasting time and endangering the future motorists, you do want their names. Then, you will create an environment, in which they cannot cause problems in the future.

What is that environment? Like you get in a pet store... I would, still like to see a label that describes the care of these living creatures. :)