PDA

View Full Version : Hitch Question


ProTouch Groundscapes
01-20-2010, 04:33 PM
just checked out a deckover pintle trailer today that i will probably purchase.

the trailer is a 19K gvwr with 16K capacity. the hitch on my F350 diesel is limited to 12,500lbs gross trailer. I have found a Reese Titan Class V hitch that is rated to 18K gross trailer with 2K tongue weight.

are there any other options you guys recommend? i know i should go GN but i need this trailer to be pulled behind other trucks as well as dumps so the pintle is the most efficient setup.

the part number for the hitch is: PN 45297 if you guys wanna look it up.

Mark Oomkes
01-20-2010, 05:01 PM
How much do you plan on towing with your 350?

And how can you have a 19K GVWR with a 16K capacity? It's either 19K or 16K, not both.

AFAIK, you won't find a receiver insert that is good for anything over 10K. You will need to bolt a pintle hook to a bumper\frame extension to be legal. Could be wrong on this part, though.

ProTouch Groundscapes
01-20-2010, 05:15 PM
the machine ill be towing is an asv rc100 that weighs about 10,150 with bucket.

the gvwr is 19K and the capacity of the trailer is 16K if you have the adequate 3K worth of hitchload.

the weight of the load+trailer cant exceed 19K, so when it states the capacity is 16K that means the max load is 16K, at least from my understanding.

im not talking about an insert. Im talking about an entirely new frame mounted hitch. The new receiver is rated to 18K weight carrying, ill be using an 8 ton pintle hitch into that new receiver.

the 350 will be doing the towing until we purchase a new med. duty dump truck.

Krafty
01-20-2010, 05:28 PM
I have givein up on making thoes hitch number all work out. They come form the manfg and dont make any sense. I pull a 14k deckover with my f-550. The hitch I use for it is the same thing you are talking about a 8 ton pintle claw. I bought an 8 ton pintle / 2 5/16 ball combo but clearly stamped into the top of the ball is 10,000lbs?????? If you use the class v hitch and the 8 ton pintle hitch you will be more then fine to pull that trailer.

YellowDogSVC
01-20-2010, 05:30 PM
How much do you plan on towing with your 350?

And how can you have a 19K GVWR with a 16K capacity? It's either 19K or 16K, not both.

AFAIK, you won't find a receiver insert that is good for anything over 10K. You will need to bolt a pintle hook to a bumper\frame extension to be legal. Could be wrong on this part, though.


The class V should have 2.5" receiver tube. There are 2.5" receiver inserts rated to 17k (weight distributing) but I have never seen any rated above that. A combo pintle is generally rated to 16k-20k but the weak link will be the adapter that fits into the Class V tube.

ProTouch Groundscapes
01-20-2010, 05:39 PM
i have to double check what the stock receiver on the truck is, class V or not. the tube is a standard 2" though.

i currently have my 8 ton combo pintle on an adjustable flat plate that is only rated to 12K when i get a new pintle it will be a single piece so its rated properly.

I can also upgrade the 2" ball thats currently in the pintle to a 2 5/16 30K ball as well but then i have to find a plate thats rated higher.

Gravel Rat
01-20-2010, 05:51 PM
Have a look at the links :drinkup:

www.buyersproducts.com/Towing-Cargo-Control/Pintle-Hook-Mount/PINTLE-MOUNT-4PLATE-8SHANK/255/

www.buyersproducts.com/Towing-Cargo-Control/Pintle-Hooks-and-Combination-Ball-Hitch/15-Ton-Forged-Heavy-Duty-Pintle-Hook/PINTLE-HOOK-DROP-FORGED-15TON/216/

ProTouch Groundscapes
01-20-2010, 07:13 PM
thanks GR for the link for the plate, the 20K gtw is what i need compared to my current 12K plate.

I have a strong enough combo pintle that i can mount to that plate now. I just gotta find a REESE dealer to install the heavier receiver mount on my truck now.

Gravel Rat
01-20-2010, 07:32 PM
I wish Buyers Products carried reciever hitches but they don't all the rest of their products are good.

Myself I would have a custom made rear bumper that you could make the pintle hitch bolt right to it. Then to mount the bumper you can use plates along the cheeks of the frame and wrap under the frame so you can use all the holes possible and maximum strength.

So a good chunk of the rear frame is being used for pulling. To rip the bumper of it would have to rip the frame tail apart.

The loggers build rear bumpers out of box tubing it doesn't bend the frame does. The reason why they have a bumper like that is for pulling the fuel trailer or fire trailer in the bush. Fire trailer probably weighs 10-15 ton.

Yotedinger
01-20-2010, 07:34 PM
Protouch,

Also take a look at Curt industries class 5 offerings and reciever inserts.
For the Hook, take a look at Mil-surp hooks welded to the insert plate.

I run one on the 2500HD pulling a deckover similar to your set up, and chose the Curt over the Reese because of the better frame support on the Curt.
It's one thing to reinforce for pulling in a straight line, but I'm often in loose sand,snow and Ice with a 6 ton tractor on the trailer and turning, and don't much like bent frames.

I forget what the total rating is, but it exceeds the trailer with a 11,000lb Harvester on it by a bit, though I guess the DOT would poop Kittens over the dimensions of that thing.:D

Mark Oomkes
01-21-2010, 10:01 AM
the machine ill be towing is an asv rc100 that weighs about 10,150 with bucket.

JMO, but you're insane if you want to do this on a regular basis. Sure it can be done, I've done it before.

Sure you can pull it, but can you stop it in a controlled, safe manner?

the gvwr is 19K and the capacity of the trailer is 16K if you have the adequate 3K worth of hitchload.

Either I'm not understanding what you're talking about or you don't understand what you're talking about.

Tongue weight has NOTHING to do with reducing or changing GVWR of a trailer. That 3K you're referring to is still part of the trailer weight, not transferred to the truck.

So does the mfg little plaque say GVWR of 19K? If so, that is the amount of weight you can have on that trailer INCLUDING the weight of the trailer.

Unless, you are trying to say the trailer weighs 3,000#'s in which case you can carry another 16K on the trailer.

the weight of the load+trailer cant exceed 19K, so when it states the capacity is 16K that means the max load is 16K, at least from my understanding.

Could be, like I said, does the trailer weigh 3K? Has nothing to do with how much tonque weight you have.

im not talking about an insert. Im talking about an entirely new frame mounted hitch. The new receiver is rated to 18K weight carrying, ill be using an 8 ton pintle hitch into that new receiver.

the 350 will be doing the towing until we purchase a new med. duty dump truck.

Then you need to clarify your terminology.

A receiver accepts an insert. It is a 1 1/2", 2" or 2 1/2" square tube.

There is no receiver manufactured that will accept an insert that will legally allow you to tow over 12K without weight distributing accessories. And a pintle hook is not weight distributing.

The class V should have 2.5" receiver tube. There are 2.5" receiver inserts rated to 17k (weight distributing) but I have never seen any rated above that. A combo pintle is generally rated to 16k-20k but the weak link will be the adapter that fits into the Class V tube.

Exactly, actually, the weak link is that little bitty pin that holds the insert into the receiver.

But as I said, pintle hooks are not weight distributing, so there is no way to legally tow this trailer on any truck that has a receiver tube.

The pintle hook itself HAS to be directly bolted to the frame or frame extensions of the truck, just as you see on dump trucks.

But then he will end up with too much tongue weight.

He needs to either get a bigger truck with the correct towing capacity or lose the pintle hook idea and go with a weight distributing hitch.

thanks GR for the link for the plate, the 20K gtw is what i need compared to my current 12K plate.

I have a strong enough combo pintle that i can mount to that plate now. I just gotta find a REESE dealer to install the heavier receiver mount on my truck now.

See above, it isn't going to happen, there is way too much liability involved for them to install a receiver that you are going to use beyond its limits.

Here's the link from Reese's site:

http://www.reeseprod.com/

Class V
Class V hitches is very similar to Class III & IV hitches except for the weight ratings and that the hitch uses a 2-1/2" receiver. Class V hitches are weight carrying (WC) and weight distributing (WD) hitches. Class V hitches used as weight carrying is rated up to 13,000 lbs. gross trailer weight (GTW) with a maximum trailer tongue weight (TW) of 1300 lbs. Hitches that are used for weight distributing are rated up to 17,000 lbs. gross trailer weight (GTW) with a maximum trailer tongue weight (TW) of 1700 lbs. The use of a ball mount and hitch ball of the same rating or higher is required. To use the weight distribution side of the hitch a weight distribution system is required. Class V hitches attach to the vehicle frame only. Always consult your owner's manual for vehicle rating.

ProTouch Groundscapes
01-21-2010, 11:46 AM
Sure it can be done, I've done it before.

Sure you can pull it, but can you stop it in a controlled, safe manner?

yes ive already towed this machine with this truck and if the brake controller is adjusted properly then it stops it very safely. Im not an idiot. And if youve read my earlier post, this truck will only be used to move this machine occasionally. A larger dump truck will be purchased next year.

Either I'm not understanding what you're talking about or you don't understand what you're talking about.

Tongue weight has NOTHING to do with reducing or changing GVWR of a trailer. That 3K you're referring to is still part of the trailer weight, not transferred to the truck.

So does the mfg little plaque say GVWR of 19K? If so, that is the amount of weight you can have on that trailer INCLUDING the weight of the trailer.

Unless, you are trying to say the trailer weighs 3,000#'s in which case you can carry another 16K on the trailer.

YES! the tag says 19K gvwr. and again i know that the gvwr is the maximum the trailer and load is allowed to weigh. So if the site says it has a 16K capacity then apparently the trailer weighs 3K pounds. When i mentioned hitch load i was talking about the proper weight distribution to the tongue to properly tow the trailer. When we get the trailer ill be taking it to the local yard and get it weighed out and calculate each axles load so that i know how much i can put on it without going over my trucks gvwr or the combined gvwr.

Could be, like I said, does the trailer weigh 3K? Has nothing to do with how much tonque weight you have.

tongue weight does not change how much your legally allowed to carry but it affects how well the trailer will tow.

heres the image directly from Reeses website showing the receiver that is supposed to fit my 09 350 pickup that will tow a load weighing 18K without weight distributing attachment.

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m300/frndinalowplace/untitled.jpg

ProTouch Groundscapes
01-21-2010, 11:48 AM
and heres another hitch from Curt that also claims to fit a 350 pickup that will do a 18K trailer via weight carrying:
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m300/frndinalowplace/untitled1.jpg

Mark Oomkes
01-21-2010, 11:52 AM
And both have that term WD on them, what does that mean?

I bet I know.

ProTouch Groundscapes
01-21-2010, 11:54 AM
And both have that term WD on them, what does that mean?

I bet I know.

Wow, you must have selective vision as well? do you not see that it also lists that term WC?? what does that mean, i bet i know as well.

WC= Weight Carrying= 18000lbs
WC= Weight Distributing= 18000lbs


is this really that difficult??

Mark Oomkes
01-21-2010, 11:57 AM
Wow, you must have selective vision as well? do you not see that it also lists that term WC?? what does that mean, i bet i know as well.

WC= Weight Carrying= 18000lbs
WC= Weight Distributing= 18000lbs


is this really that difficult??

Sometimes, so what does weight distributing mean then?

ProTouch Groundscapes
01-21-2010, 12:03 PM
i guess ill entertain your line of questioning.

a weight distributing hitch is a type of hitch that uses trunion bars to apply leverage and spread the weight being carried by the rear of the vehicle across the frame and to the front axles as well.

but in all seriousness, i understand your concerns for safety and recommendation to get a larger truck to tow this machine. For the time being i want to upgrade to the best possible receiver and hitch combination to maximize safety for the few times my pickup will be used to tow this machine until we do purchase an f550 or c5500.

Mark Oomkes
01-21-2010, 12:06 PM
i guess ill entertain your line of questioning.

a weight distributing hitch is a type of hitch that uses trunion bars to apply leverage and spread the weight being carried by the rear of the vehicle across the frame and to the front axles as well.

but in all seriousness, i understand your concerns for safety and recommendation to get a larger truck to tow this machine. For the time being i want to upgrade to the best possible receiver and hitch combination to maximize safety for the few times my pickup will be used to tow this machine until we do purchase an f550 or c5500.

Thanks, my understanding of a weight distributing hitch is this:

http://www.reese-hitches.com/product_categories/weight_distribution_kits

And these only come with ball hitches, not pintle hooks.

Could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

ProTouch Groundscapes
01-21-2010, 12:11 PM
ya, they are only available for use with hitch balls. this trailer comes standard with the lunette eye for a pintle hook which is better because i have never seen a weight dist. hitch mounted on the back of a dump truck and i wont have to change over the ball hitch on the trailer side to lunette eye.