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GreenGiant94
01-23-2010, 12:52 PM
Hey everyone,

I am looking for a ford f-250 or f-350. I was wondering in the 250s what the gas mileage is on a gas 5.4 vs a diesel 6.0. How much more power does the diesel 6.0 have vs the 5.4. How do you all like these engines, any problems? I would like a diesel 7.3 or maybe a gas 6.8 but I'm having a hard time finding these in a truck I like, so I'm trying to find out if I had to go with one of the others which one would be best.

Thanks

motorscot
01-23-2010, 01:04 PM
While I don't know what mpg figures would be, I would get the diesel if at all possible. They have more torque at lower rpm=better towing. They will normally get better mpg with a trailer than some gassers do without. They tow more, do it longer, with less stress.

Diesels will go 300k miles or more if properly maintained, while gassers will go 150k or more. Maintenance is normally higher with a diesel, but if you ask anyone what will pull 10k lbs of trailer, mowers, sod, mulch, or whatever up a hill without a hiccup or the motor sounding like a yugo on meth, then diesel is the way.

WREBELMACHINE
01-23-2010, 01:09 PM
A lot of the companies around here started buying the V10 fords because the fuel milage is about the same as the diesel pulling and gas is 50 cents a gallon cheaper than diesel fuel. I run a diesel but when it comes time to replace I will probably go with gas buy the truck cheaper fuel cheaper trade off sooner and keep a newer truck around.

Junior M
01-23-2010, 01:22 PM
the 5.4 is one sorry motor...

get a diesel.

GreenGiant94
01-23-2010, 01:23 PM
Alright. I'm thinking if the 6.0 doesn't get any better mpg then the gas 5.4 and they are close in power, the gas and maintenance is cheaper for the gas engine. I have also heard that some people have had problems with the 6.0 diesel. I have heard right when the 6.0 came out it had some problems but the longer it was out they started fixing the problems although it still had a few problems.

Junior M
01-23-2010, 01:26 PM
Alright. I'm thinking if the 6.0 doesn't get any better mpg then the gas 5.4 and they are close in power, the gas and maintenance is cheaper for the gas engine. I have also heard that some people have had problems with the 6.0 diesel. I have heard right when the 6.0 came out it had some problems but the longer it was out they started fixing the problems although it still had a few problems.
the 5.4 and 6.0 are no where close to comparable power wise.

And the 6.0 has had its problems.. But get an oasis report from the ford dealership(its like a Carfax for a diesel, strictly from ford) and if its been a problem free motor then buy it.

betmr
01-23-2010, 01:40 PM
Why does everyone think maintenance is higher for a diesel engine? What does it need...Fuel and air, no plugs & wires, no disributor. Look at all the stuff on a gasoline engine. In the long run, Diesel is more economical than Gas. That's my opinion. And I run 2 Diesel trucks, One is a Dodge Mason dump, The other is a ford F-350 Utility body. They are both monsters, And that F-350 w/turbo prit-near flies, stomp on it, and it is lift off time.

KyLawnscapes
01-23-2010, 01:46 PM
I have 2 2002 7.3 powerstrokes and a early 90's 7.3 non-turbo. He is right on the maintanence. It costs less in the long run. i can get 300k plus on a diesel and still drive work out of it. I would stay away from the 6.0's they are real bad about blowing head gaskets and if you put a box or injectors in them youll have more problems than that. There a good motor they just dont hold up. I would look for a 99-03 with a 7.3 youll have that truck 10 years later.

Richard Martin
01-23-2010, 02:51 PM
I remember back about 18 months ago when diesel was $5 a gallon a whole lot of people crying here on Lawnsite about it. There is no way in the world I would get sucked into a diesel unless I absolutely, positively must have it.

Diesel is already $3 a gallon in spots here in NC and as high as $4 a gallon in California and $3.80 in New York.

http://www.californiagasprices.com/76_Gas_Stations/North_Hills/7040/index.aspx

http://www.newyorkgasprices.com/Mobil_Gas_Stations/Queens/9642/index.aspx

They are raising the fuel prices so slowly that hardly anyone is noticing. But I am and I'm not happy about it.

Lawnut101
01-23-2010, 03:08 PM
the 5.4 is one sorry motor...

get a diesel.

I don't agree with you.

dishboy
01-23-2010, 03:08 PM
the 5.4 is one sorry motor...

get a diesel.

350 lbs of torque out of 330 ci is hardly sorry ,nor is zero engine repairs other than oil changes in six years. For hauling mowers it works quite fine thank you very much!.

Junior M
01-23-2010, 03:28 PM
Well I've got my own opinion, breakdowns had nothing to do with it..

the 5.4 maybe a good motor for an F150, but not a 250 or 350.

There is a reason you dont see Chevy putting the 5.3 in the 2500s and 3500s. Ford should follow suit and I believe they are this year..

soloscaperman
01-23-2010, 03:37 PM
I am a chevy fan all my life and actually my next truck will be a Ford 5.4. That motor is proven like a Chevy vortec. The reason why I like the 5.4 is I am going to install a turbo which is better for towing and better MPG. Strong motor with good numbers. Don't buy the early ones which had intake problems, and bolts breaking. Also I heard about the spark plugs being to tight or loose.

go on you tube and put in 5.4 turbo or supercharged. Those motor's love forced induction like a stripper likes money.

scagrider22
01-23-2010, 03:52 PM
I am a chevy fan all my life and actually my next truck will be a Ford 5.4. That motor is proven like a Chevy vortec. The reason why I like the 5.4 is I am going to install a turbo which is better for towing and better MPG. Strong motor with good numbers. Don't buy the early ones which had intake problems, and bolts breaking. Also I heard about the spark plugs being to tight or loose.

go on you tube and put in 5.4 turbo or supercharged. Those motor's love forced induction like a stripper likes money.

The 5.4 is a very sorry engine I dont care what numbers Ford claims, they have no pulling power and they get the same mpg as the V-10 and for that reason I heard Ford was going to discontinue the 5.4 in Superduty's.

WREBELMACHINE
01-23-2010, 04:06 PM
Cannot say anything bad about the 5.4 but the V10 is sure getting popular around here.

mini14
01-23-2010, 04:33 PM
if u enjoy long period of downtime, expensive repair bills,excessive frustration, please buy a 6.0 diesel. plan on spending an extra $5000 on preventative measures like egr coolers and headstuds, and still having to cross your fingers everytime the engine is started(or attempted to start).....plan on getting the truck towed on a daily basis and replacing the ficm for $1000 when it refuses to start cold.

Junior M
01-23-2010, 04:37 PM
if u enjoy long period of downtime, expensive repair bills,excessive frustration, please buy a 6.0 diesel. plan on spending an extra $5000 on preventative measures like egr coolers and headstuds, and still having to cross your fingers everytime the engine is started(or attempted to start).....plan on getting the truck towed on a daily basis and replacing the ficm for $1000 when it refuses to start cold.
And that^ is a perfect example of a pissed off early 6.0 owner..

They were decent motors, some had there issues, especially the early ones. We had an 05 where I used to work and its only problem was injectors. Had the couple replaced and it was good to go.

dishboy
01-23-2010, 04:37 PM
The 5.4 is a very sorry engine I dont care what numbers Ford claims, they have no pulling power and they get the same mpg as the V-10 and for that reason I heard Ford was going to discontinue the 5.4 in Superduty's.

V-10 fuel mileage equals 5.4, ya right.

Grass Shark
01-23-2010, 06:21 PM
I remember back about 18 months ago when diesel was $5 a gallon a whole lot of people crying here on Lawnsite about it. There is no way in the world I would get sucked into a diesel unless I absolutely, positively must have it.

Diesel is already $3 a gallon in spots here in NC and as high as $4 a gallon in California and $3.80 in New York.

http://www.californiagasprices.com/76_Gas_Stations/North_Hills/7040/index.aspx

http://www.newyorkgasprices.com/Mobil_Gas_Stations/Queens/9642/index.aspx

They are raising the fuel prices so slowly that hardly anyone is noticing. But I am and I'm not happy about it.

Diesel is cheaper!

As for your california gas prices, which is the bigest difference in cost of gas & diesel in the country, it is STILL cheaper to run a diesel.

I own a 7.3 L Powerstroke and my friend owns a 5.4 gas.... same truck other than engine. I get 19 mpg towing my 12' Landscape trailer and he gets 10 mpg towing his 12' landscape trailer. Loaded my trailer is heavier.

I will give example with our trucks except I will give the gas truck a 2mpg increase just to show you how off you are.

California prices now (biggest difference in cost of gas and diesel in the country)
Diesel on your link is $3.99 per gallon and REGULAR gasoline is $3.07 per gallon.

Say your landscaping truck does 100 miles a day by 5 days a week and 135 weeks in the season. Thats 13,500 miles in the season.

Diesel / Gas
19 mpg / 12mpg
13,500 miles traveled
710 gal / 1125 gal
$3.99 per gallon / $3.07 per gallon
Total cost $2,842 / Total cost $3,453

The diesel is $611 cheaper to operate.
The real senario in my area and my situation if i was driving my truck then my friends the difference would be.

Diesel / Regular Gas
19 mpg / 10 mpg
I travel 25,000 miles per year
1315 gal / 2500 gal
$2.78 per gallon / $2.59 per gallon
Total cost $3655.70 / Total cost $6475.00

If I were driving my friends Gas truck it would cost me $2,819.30 MORE per year!
If I keep the truck for 10 years thats $28,193.00 SAVED, how does that look on your bottom line?

Even if diesel went for $1.50 more per gallon, it still would NOT cost more. I wonder why all tractor trailers are diesels?

Grass Shark
01-23-2010, 06:24 PM
Do NOT buy a 6.0 avoid that engine like the plague!

grassman177
01-23-2010, 07:05 PM
V-10 fuel mileage equals 5.4, ya right.

we own both, and yes they are only like 1mpg dif

as far as they both are the same class of truck, we have v10 in bigger truck with dif rear end and it gets less mpg but will pull the others in circles

WHIPPLE5.7
01-23-2010, 07:10 PM
Facts that I have seen. No opinion, just hard facts.
1)Almost every late model truck I see being towed in for repairs is 6.0 and 6.4 Fords.
2)I avoided getting a diesel for a long time because the Vortec 350 in my 2500 Chevy has some tasteful yet cheap mods to make more power. My truck had 125,000 when I decided to do some mods. Everyone and there momma said I would blow it all over the highway. 165,000 miles and 100+HP more it runs just as well as the day I got it at 73,000miles. Plus it gets 16 mpg towing.
3)After hearing everyone rave about how great diesels are I decided to get a Cummins dually since I often have large payloads. Guess what, this truck sucks ass. I get 12-13 mpg and diesel fuel is 60 cents higher per gallon. I haven't chipped it but I did do an intake and exhaust but this truck is a joke. Sometimes if it has been sitting for awhile the batteries drain down and go dead within 15-20 days. Also if I don't start it often it takes forever to start like its not getting fuel. It only has 70,000 miles.

Your best bet would be get the 5.4 and do about $1,500 in mods. It will really wake it up and help the mpg. If you can wait Ford is coming out with a new gas engine thats like 6.2 liter and way more power.
BTW I wouldn't touch a V10. If you wear a motor out or blow it up the 5.4 is way more common and cheap to find.

Turf Dawg
01-23-2010, 07:24 PM
Since they no longer make the 7.3 I would go with the V-10. My wife's [ours] 03 Excursion has the V-10 and I love that engine. As for as the milage goes, our friends has a 08 [I think] 1/2 ton 4wd 4 door with all the bells and whistles with the 5.4. With me pulling a camper and him pulling a boat on a 3hr trip, our V-10 gets alittle better fuel milage. If I had the money right now to buy a new Ford it would have the V-10.

scagrider22
01-23-2010, 07:52 PM
V-10 fuel mileage equals 5.4, ya right.

Yeah believe it or not they do get almost exactly the same mph because you have to keep the gas petal to the floor of the 5.4 to keep up with the V-10 at half trottle. And yes I have owned them both along with 6.0 Ford. And because of the wimpy 5.4 and all the 6.0 break downs I went back to Chevy, my mowing truck is a 6.0 gas and my other truck that I haul smaller equipment with is a 6.6 Duramax and they both run great with power to spare. I love the way Fords look and tow but until they figure out the drivetrain issue's and the body's rusting out in only a few years I will be driving G.M.'s.

GreenGiant94
01-23-2010, 09:18 PM
Thanks everyone for all the info

jnrogers
01-23-2010, 09:41 PM
At work we have several of each of these. The 5.4 litre in 4X4 gets around 10mpg and the 6.0 litre gets around 20-21 mpg. The 6.0 has about twice the power it seems. Just stay away from the 2003 models with the 6.0 thats when they mainly had problems, the late 2004's and up most of the bugs were fixed by then.

WREBELMACHINE
01-23-2010, 10:20 PM
We are talking about pulling MPG not just driving. The V10 is very economical HP with good MPG.

mowzilla
01-23-2010, 10:48 PM
And that^ is a perfect example of a pissed off early 6.0 owner..

They were decent motors, some had there issues, especially the early ones. We had an 05 where I used to work and its only problem was injectors. Had the couple replaced and it was good to go.

i used to run super duty 7.3's and they rule. i bought a new 250 in 2004 with 6.0 and it was a!@#$%^&*(....in the shop 7 times in 13K miles...i took a loss ('cause a deceased friend of mine was an international tech and said they 6.0 a.k.a vt365 is a cheaply built @#$%^&*( and it was no way ever going to follow in the 7.3' s foot steps.) i had 03 and 05 fords with the 5.4 and its gutless. i had a 06 2500 hd with the 6.0 gas and it loves fuel but pulls like a big block. and it makes a 5.4 feel like a v6...i'da kept the hd 'cept for gm's dirty little secret about transfer case failures (due to its lube pump working loose) and i don't like the front 4wd axle set up (yep it leaked too) ..so in hindsight i should have got a 2wd 2500 hd (the locker in the rear works so good didn't ever use 4wd much) but i looked at fuel costs and what i was spending so now (since i run a 6x12 trailer) i went with a 2wd gmc 5.3 six speed auto in a 1500.. it runs nearly as good as the 6.0 and gets 16-18mpg towing my trailer loaded with a ztr,walkbehind, 21, street blower,etc..

new hd with six speed 'prolly better.. but i am saving $150/mo on fuel running the 1500..and it can pull a good 8k.. i will 'prolly get an isuzu npr or and older 7.3 ford when i need a bigger truck..

vanncann
01-23-2010, 11:02 PM
Got a '07 F 250 with the 6.0 and have 120,000+ miles and have done nothing to it except change oil!!! Fuel mileage varies from12.5+ to 22+ depending on mood (mine that is).

mowzilla
01-23-2010, 11:07 PM
Got a '07 F 250 with the 6.0 and have 120,000+ miles and have done nothing to it except change oil!!! Fuel mileage varies from12.5+ to 22+ depending on mood (mine that is).

some people got lucky and got good 6.0s..i liked mine when in ran right..my friend greg bought a 250 within 3 days of me and his was ok..its just too hit or miss with 6.0's and 6.4's :(

i never wanted to drive gm, i think ford's are better built in some respects, but i do LLLLLOOOOVVVEE gm smallblock v8's .. and i love my current gmc its been great 21mpg empty 'depending on my mood' hehe..

TXNSLighting
01-23-2010, 11:17 PM
if u enjoy long period of downtime, expensive repair bills,excessive frustration, please buy a 6.0 diesel. plan on spending an extra $5000 on preventative measures like egr coolers and headstuds, and still having to cross your fingers everytime the engine is started(or attempted to start).....plan on getting the truck towed on a daily basis and replacing the ficm for $1000 when it refuses to start cold.

BS BS BS BS!!!!!!!:nono:

TXNSLighting
01-23-2010, 11:21 PM
Facts that I have seen. No opinion, just hard facts.
1)Almost every late model truck I see being towed in for repairs is 6.0 and 6.4 Fords.
2)I avoided getting a diesel for a long time because the Vortec 350 in my 2500 Chevy has some tasteful yet cheap mods to make more power. My truck had 125,000 when I decided to do some mods. Everyone and there momma said I would blow it all over the highway. 165,000 miles and 100+HP more it runs just as well as the day I got it at 73,000miles. Plus it gets 16 mpg towing.
3)After hearing everyone rave about how great diesels are I decided to get a Cummins dually since I often have large payloads. Guess what, this truck sucks ass. I get 12-13 mpg and diesel fuel is 60 cents higher per gallon. I haven't chipped it but I did do an intake and exhaust but this truck is a joke. Sometimes if it has been sitting for awhile the batteries drain down and go dead within 15-20 days. Also if I don't start it often it takes forever to start like its not getting fuel. It only has 70,000 miles.

Your best bet would be get the 5.4 and do about $1,500 in mods. It will really wake it up and help the mpg. If you can wait Ford is coming out with a new gas engine thats like 6.2 liter and way more power.
BTW I wouldn't touch a V10. If you wear a motor out or blow it up the 5.4 is way more common and cheap to find.

The first half of your story isnt close to facts! Thats for sure. A 2500hd gasser, getting better economy than a Cummins? ha!!

TXNSLighting
01-23-2010, 11:24 PM
some people got lucky and got good 6.0s..i liked mine when in ran right..my friend greg bought a 250 within 3 days of me and his was ok..its just too hit or miss with 6.0's and 6.4's :(

i never wanted to drive gm, i think ford's are better built in some respects, but i do LLLLLOOOOVVVEE gm smallblock v8's .. and i love my current gmc its been great 21mpg empty 'depending on my mood' hehe..

Its not near the hit or miss, with the 06-07 6.0's. They were great ones.

Glenn Lawn Care
01-23-2010, 11:41 PM
I would stay away from the 6.0's they are real bad about blowing head gaskets and if you put a box or injectors in them youll have more problems than that. .

only the 03 and 04 years were really bad. 05 06 and 07 are good motors. ealry 05 is still shakey.

clay duncan
01-23-2010, 11:42 PM
i like my 5.4. other than coil packs i have not had any problems. it is not the fastest most powerfull engine out there but it is very capable and will do whatever you ask out of it.......

djchiodo3
01-23-2010, 11:48 PM
have 2004 F250 diesel 6.0 with trailer fully loaded I average 11miles per gallon. Enclosed trailer and equip weigh 6000lbs and I load truck with debris through out the week. Change oil and filter every 2000 miles. Takes over 3 1/2 gallons of oil($35). Oil filter and two fuel filters cost around $75 total. Change one of two tran filters every 10000 miles($20).Takes a synthetic oil in the transmission, price per case at ford was $70 last time I bought some. Prices depend if I buy cheap or from ford. Drove from Sarasota to Miami once and got 22MPG highway, truck only. During our last really cold spell my diesel did not like to start in the morning. Might get a heater for next year if this keeps up. I know Ford owns Cummins. If that's the case I wonder if they are going to start selling their trucks with the Cummins engine now that Dodge says they are no longer going to offer there full size trucks.

Glenn Lawn Care
01-23-2010, 11:50 PM
if u enjoy long period of downtime, expensive repair bills,excessive frustration, please buy a 6.0 diesel. plan on spending an extra $5000 on preventative measures like egr coolers and headstuds, and still having to cross your fingers everytime the engine is started(or attempted to start).....plan on getting the truck towed on a daily basis and replacing the ficm for $1000 when it refuses to start cold.

:hammerhead:obviously you dont know to much cuz those 6.0 are a really good motor esp. the 06 and 07. i know alot of people with 6 liters and all the stuff mentioned about, they have never had problems with.


on a differnet note, 5.4l isnt a bad motor in a half ton if you dont pull anything. in a 3/4 ton you couldnt give me on for free! buy a 6.0, you wont regret it no matter what tool on here that says differnet!!!!!!!:weightlifter::weightlifter:

Mahoney3223
01-23-2010, 11:57 PM
i have a 5.4 and depending on what your doing with it, it's fine. pulling mowers around a 5.4 is plenty...a lot of guys on here whack off over a diesel but the truth is unless you hauling a skid steer or dump trailer religiously, a gas will be fine...and cheaper

WHIPPLE5.7
01-24-2010, 12:12 AM
The first half of your story isnt close to facts! Thats for sure. A 2500hd gasser, getting better economy than a Cummins? ha!!

I don't have an 2500HD truck. Those had 6.0 and 8.1 gas. Mine is 1997 with the 350. And yes jerkoff it does do better than my Cummins.

green grass lawn care
01-24-2010, 12:15 AM
have a buddy who is a diesel machanic at a ford dealership. he says that the 6.0 and 6.4 is a piece compared to the 7.3. he has a bunch of new trucks in the shop right now and they are all brand new. brand new as in 2009 and 2010 models. i have a buddy witht the older 5.9 cummins in his dodge 3/4 ton and he says taht it gets 18-25 depending on how he drives loaded or unloaded and, "it'll pull the gates outta hell baby." said with a country accent. that's my 2 cents. vince

soloscaperman
01-24-2010, 01:47 AM
5.4 with some minor upgrades will pull good! What are you pulling?? diesel if your gonna pull a skidsteer. Every lawn you stop and go, does a diesel like that?, LOL!

To me diesel suck bec when it breaks down you are F*****! Time and money.

If you pull skidsteers and other heavy crap yes the gas will stress out and the diesel will take it pretty well but they will prolly cost the same in the long run when pulling very heavy stuff so its an even call.

TXNSLighting
01-24-2010, 02:04 AM
have 2004 F250 diesel 6.0 with trailer fully loaded I average 11miles per gallon. Enclosed trailer and equip weigh 6000lbs and I load truck with debris through out the week. Change oil and filter every 2000 miles. Takes over 3 1/2 gallons of oil($35). Oil filter and two fuel filters cost around $75 total. Change one of two tran filters every 10000 miles($20).Takes a synthetic oil in the transmission, price per case at ford was $70 last time I bought some. Prices depend if I buy cheap or from ford. Drove from Sarasota to Miami once and got 22MPG highway, truck only. During our last really cold spell my diesel did not like to start in the morning. Might get a heater for next year if this keeps up. I know Ford owns Cummins. If that's the case I wonder if they are going to start selling their trucks with the Cummins engine now that Dodge says they are no longer going to offer there full size trucks.

:hammerhead::hammerhead::hammerhead: My gosh really??? Im so tired of this. Ford Does NOT own Cummins, and never has!! Also youre changing your oil way more often than you should. youre just wasting money..

TXNSLighting
01-24-2010, 02:06 AM
I don't have an 2500HD truck. Those had 6.0 and 8.1 gas. Mine is 1997 with the 350. And yes jerkoff it does do better than my Cummins.

Nice, good job with the name calling. Showin your intelligence level...:waving:

djchiodo3
01-24-2010, 02:33 AM
:hammerhead::hammerhead::hammerhead: My gosh really??? Im so tired of this. Ford Does NOT own Cummins, and never has!! Also youre changing your oil way more often than you should. youre just wasting money..

Ford does own cummins. As a matter of fact you can go into a Ford dealer and request a cummins as long as it is one ton or bigger. They bought cummins years ago, but because of the agreement could only sell in their larger truck configuarations. You need to check your facts. The reason I change my oil so much is because I do a lot of city driving and I am starting my engine numerous time a day and I tow a very heavy load.

djchiodo3
01-24-2010, 02:44 AM
:hammerhead::hammerhead::hammerhead: My gosh really??? Im so tired of this. Ford Does NOT own Cummins, and never has!! Also youre changing your oil way more often than you should. youre just wasting money..

Ok, ford seems to have owned a large stake in cummins at one time or another, but not 100% of the company. I am right about getting a cummins in a ford, just wrong on the owning part. My bad.

Junior M
01-24-2010, 02:50 AM
We are talking about pulling MPG not just driving. The V10 is very economical HP with good MPG.

screw MPG, its ******ed.. Your buying a truck to move thousands of pounds, fuel mileage really shouldnt be a factor. Sure its important, but dam its def. not the deciding factor!

Ok, ford seems to have owned a large stake in cummins at one time or another, but not 100% of the company. I am right about getting a cummins in a ford, just wrong on the owning part. My bad.

Dont forget you can only get a cummins in the 650s and up..

djchiodo3
01-24-2010, 02:58 AM
screw MPG, its ******ed.. Your buying a truck to move thousands of pounds, fuel mileage really shouldnt be a factor. Sure its important, but dam its def. not the deciding factor!



Dont forget you can only get a cummins in the 650s and up..

Just found a web site that sells kits to install cummins in any ford truck or they will do it for you.

Junior M
01-24-2010, 02:59 AM
Just found a web site that sells kits to install cummins in any ford truck or they will do it for you.
you can make anything fit...

were talking stock, from the factory.. :hammerhead:

magbarn
01-24-2010, 04:32 AM
I remember back about 18 months ago when diesel was $5 a gallon a whole lot of people crying here on Lawnsite about it. There is no way in the world I would get sucked into a diesel unless I absolutely, positively must have it.

Diesel is already $3 a gallon in spots here in NC and as high as $4 a gallon in California and $3.80 in New York.

http://www.californiagasprices.com/76_Gas_Stations/North_Hills/7040/index.aspx

http://www.newyorkgasprices.com/Mobil_Gas_Stations/Queens/9642/index.aspx

They are raising the fuel prices so slowly that hardly anyone is noticing. But I am and I'm not happy about it.

I don't know about your prices, but that californiagasprices is BS on Diesel price. Just filled up 18 gallons of ULSD here in Riverside county at not 3.90, not 3.50, but $3.09 per gallon! The gas prices are close though. And just in case you thought my price was isolated, orange county prices were $3.05 per gallon... Did the website get their prices from san francisco?

jvanvliet
01-24-2010, 07:23 AM
I had a 99 Dodge 3500 5.9 liter Cummings; got 20-22 MPG with the trailer on the hook. It for totalled after some bimbo ran into the back of it.

Now I got a 97 F350 7.3 liter diesel & get about 16 MPG with the trailer on the hook.

I spoke to some people who own a 6.o liter 7 they said the mileage stinks... but don't take my word for it. Go to http://thedieselgarage.com/forums & get info from people who are driving & repairing them.

Ford diesels got problems... If I had to do it again, i'd cough up the extra money and get me the DODGE with CUMMINGS 5.9 Liter!!!!!!!!

As far as fuel prices go... I pay aboy 15Cts more for diesel than I do for regular grade gas. The Ford gets me 16MPG with the trailer. I rented a 250 superdutu with the 8cyl v-8. It got me about 10 mpg with the trailer on the hook & no power. just do the math 7% more for diesel = 60% more mileage & it's all torgue. I'm going with the diesel.

integrityman
01-24-2010, 09:30 AM
I have 2 2002 7.3 powerstrokes and a early 90's 7.3 non-turbo. He is right on the maintanence. It costs less in the long run. i can get 300k plus on a diesel and still drive work out of it. I would stay away from the 6.0's they are real bad about blowing head gaskets and if you put a box or injectors in them youll have more problems than that. There a good motor they just dont hold up. I would look for a 99-03 with a 7.3 youll have that truck 10 years later.

Ford shoulda stayed with the International/ Powerstroke engine. Ford has had a lot probs with their diesels when the ditched International.

hornett22
01-24-2010, 09:46 AM
5.4 had a lot of problems.spark plugs shooting out,exhaust manifold bolts breaking, high oil consumption,and coils going out. i don't like diesels either.i'd get the V-10 or the older 7.3 diesel.

TXNSLighting
01-24-2010, 10:53 AM
Ford does own cummins. As a matter of fact you can go into a Ford dealer and request a cummins as long as it is one ton or bigger. They bought cummins years ago, but because of the agreement could only sell in their larger truck configuarations. You need to check your facts. The reason I change my oil so much is because I do a lot of city driving and I am starting my engine numerous time a day and I tow a very heavy load.

Wow, no...not even close guy. You need to check your facts!! wow, what world are you living in??

TXNSLighting
01-24-2010, 10:54 AM
Ok, ford seems to have owned a large stake in cummins at one time or another, but not 100% of the company. I am right about getting a cummins in a ford, just wrong on the owning part. My bad.

still wrong. they only owned maybe 20% YEARS ago, and you can only get a cummins in a 650 and 750. There are NO 350's-550's with Cummins in them from the factory.

TXNSLighting
01-24-2010, 10:56 AM
i had a 99 dodge 3500 5.9 liter cummings; got 20-22 mpg with the trailer on the hook. It for totalled after some bimbo ran into the back of it.

Now i got a 97 f350 7.3 liter diesel & get about 16 mpg with the trailer on the hook.

I spoke to some people who own a 6.o liter 7 they said the mileage stinks... But don't take my word for it. Go to http://thedieselgarage.com/forums & get info from people who are driving & repairing them.

Ford diesels got problems... If i had to do it again, i'd cough up the extra money and get me the dodge with cummings 5.9 liter!!!!!!!!

As far as fuel prices go... I pay aboy 15cts more for diesel than i do for regular grade gas. The ford gets me 16mpg with the trailer. I rented a 250 superdutu with the 8cyl v-8. It got me about 10 mpg with the trailer on the hook & no power. Just do the math 7% more for diesel = 60% more mileage & it's all torgue. I'm going with the diesel.

its cummins!!!!! No g!

TXNSLighting
01-24-2010, 10:57 AM
Ford shoulda stayed with the International/ Powerstroke engine. Ford has had a lot probs with their diesels when the ditched International.

6.0 AND 6.4 ARE INTERNATIONALS. I cant believe all hese people without a clue...

Junior M
01-24-2010, 11:27 AM
6.0 AND 6.4 ARE INTERNATIONALS. I cant believe all hese people without a clue...
Dont tell them they are wrong though! :wall

lflcl
01-24-2010, 11:38 AM
i own a '03 250 6.0. love it. but there are a good amount of issues with the engine that ford and powerstroke a well aware of. neither company will pay for any of the repairs. there is a coolant leak issue, not to expensive. egr valve failure, expensive. replace the common rail, thats the next one to replace. the last two rob your truck of performance and gas mileage, diesel is already way to expensive. but when the engine is up to par there is nothing like the power of a diesel. also ford and powerstroke have parted ways because of this issue, ford wants to develope their own diesel engine. so all of the powerstroke engine owners start buying extra parts they will only be available for a couple of years. IS IT SPRING YET! "Nothing runs like a Deere".

scagrider22
01-24-2010, 01:59 PM
i own a '03 250 6.0. love it. but there are a good amount of issues with the engine that ford and powerstroke a well aware of. neither company will pay for any of the repairs. there is a coolant leak issue, not to expensive. egr valve failure, expensive. replace the common rail, thats the next one to replace. the last two rob your truck of performance and gas mileage, diesel is already way to expensive. but when the engine is up to par there is nothing like the power of a diesel. also ford and powerstroke have parted ways because of this issue, ford wants to develope their own diesel engine. so all of the powerstroke engine owners start buying extra parts they will only be available for a couple of years. IS IT SPRING YET! "Nothing runs like a Deere".

They parted ways because Ford sued Navistar for not covering warranty items, then Navistar found out it was other parts causing the engine failures such as the turbo's and injecters so Navistar counter sued Ford and dropped Ford. And as for parts they will allways be available.

jkilov
01-24-2010, 02:27 PM
5.4 had a lot of problems.spark plugs shooting out,exhaust manifold bolts breaking, high oil consumption,and coils going out. i don't like diesels either.i'd get the V-10 or the older 7.3 diesel.

True but all these problems can be sorted cheap, for a few hundred $ or less.
- carefully torque plugs and there should'nt be any problems, and if so a Calvan insert will fix it.
- regular use of dielectric grease should keep COPs safe from humidity and aftermarket units are cheap
- mine does'nt use much oil so I can not comment on that

Other than that the 5.4 is a fine motor. Since it lacks any engine character whatsoever people often mistake it for a slug, but the truth is it pulls just fine. Mine returns 13-14mpg towing 3000-3500lbs and without a trailer about 18mpg using overdrive.

I agree though a V10 costs only a grand more, gets nearly as good a mileage and can tow more than a 5.4

GreenGiant94
01-24-2010, 02:29 PM
only the 03 and 04 years were really bad. 05 06 and 07 are good motors. ealry 05 is still shakey.

Thats good to know. I was thinking that the later years where better.

clay duncan
01-24-2010, 04:33 PM
True but all these problems can be sorted cheap, for a few hundred $ or less.
- carefully torque plugs and there should'nt be any problems, and if so a Calvan insert will fix it.
- regular use of dielectric grease should keep COPs safe from humidity and aftermarket units are cheap
- mine does'nt use much oil so I can not comment on that

Other than that the 5.4 is a fine motor. Since it lacks any engine character whatsoever people often mistake it for a slug, but the truth is it pulls just fine. Mine returns 13-14mpg towing 3000-3500lbs and without a trailer about 18mpg using overdrive.

I agree though a V10 costs only a grand more, gets nearly as good a mileage and can tow more than a 5.4


this has been my experience also...the tow rating on my truck (5.4) is 7100#.

GreenGiant94
01-24-2010, 04:38 PM
5.4 with some minor upgrades will pull good! What are you pulling?? diesel if your gonna pull a skidsteer. Every lawn you stop and go, does a diesel like that?, LOL!

To me diesel suck bec when it breaks down you are F*****! Time and money.

If you pull skidsteers and other heavy crap yes the gas will stress out and the diesel will take it pretty well but they will prolly cost the same in the long run when pulling very heavy stuff so its an even call.

Alright. For the most part I will be towing mowers and stuff like that. Every now and then I will probably be towing heaver stuff. We do so car restoration and now and then we have to tow one of them.

I'm thinking I might could put some upgrades on it. Would that help a lot?

TXNSLighting
01-24-2010, 04:40 PM
i own a '03 250 6.0. love it. but there are a good amount of issues with the engine that ford and powerstroke a well aware of. neither company will pay for any of the repairs. there is a coolant leak issue, not to expensive. egr valve failure, expensive. replace the common rail, thats the next one to replace. the last two rob your truck of performance and gas mileage, diesel is already way to expensive. but when the engine is up to par there is nothing like the power of a diesel. also ford and powerstroke have parted ways because of this issue, ford wants to develope their own diesel engine. so all of the powerstroke engine owners start buying extra parts they will only be available for a couple of years. IS IT SPRING YET! "Nothing runs like a Deere".

You mean international. Powerstroke is what Ford Named the diesel. The new Ford diesel is called Powerstroke.
Posted via Mobile Device

scagrider22
01-24-2010, 04:41 PM
Alright. For the most part I will be towing mowers and stuff like that. Every now and then I will probably be towing heaver stuff. We do so car restoration and now and then we have to tow one of them.

I'm thinking I might could put some upgrades on it. Would that help a lot?

You cant polish a terd!

Glenn Lawn Care
01-24-2010, 06:09 PM
so many people on this thread alone have no idea what they are talking about!!:hammerhead::laugh::dizzy:

jkilov
01-24-2010, 06:38 PM
this has been my experience also...the tow rating on my truck (5.4) is 7100#.
That's what I try to tell a lot of people. The GVWR for a 5.4 isn't much less than that of a diesel. I had a 2001 7.3 PSD and grew tired of staring at $1000+ repair bills. I know many rawe over the 7.3 but fact is they had their share of problems, nothing compared to a 6.0 though.

Just checked Ford's website and the new PowderSmoke is a $9000!!! option, that's one expensive ticket to a nightmare.

doubleedge
01-24-2010, 07:14 PM
so many people on this thread alone have no idea what they are talking about!!:hammerhead::laugh::dizzy:

So many people in most threads have no idea what they are talking about; it is just more difficult to recognize in those threads.

mini14
01-25-2010, 11:45 PM
i do not by any means intend to offend anyone, but the facts r the facts $500,000,000 in warranty claims on the 6.0 and ford severing its relationship with navistar says it all. Ive worked on diesels for many years, the 6.0 is a mastery of complex design, and a mechanics dream. they smile every time one is in the parking lot or on the back of a flatbed and their smiling because they know u will be paying for their kids college tuition...........to be fair every diesel engine has been plagued with their own shortcomings just not as many as the 6.0...u might not like a dodge/cummins combo but they have 40% less parts to deal with and everything is accessible. No ford doesn't own cummins you can get cummins engine in class 6 trucks, as well as a cat motor. yes navistar counter sued and lost........and yes if your not carefull a 5.4 engine will puuuck its spark plugs........if u can a descent truck that has a good warranty then buy it, as soon as warranty is over get rid of it, u will be paying top dollar to fix it. I am only speaking from experience i know many here own 6.0's....................im sorry..... few of the bugs in that engine were redesigned by 07 model year, not all of them.

TXNSLighting
01-26-2010, 12:01 AM
i do not by any means intend to offend anyone, but the facts r the facts $500,000,000 in warranty claims on the 6.0 and ford severing its relationship with navistar says it all. Ive worked on diesels for many years, the 6.0 is a mastery of complex design, and a mechanics dream. they smile every time one is in the parking lot or on the back of a flatbed and their smiling because they know u will be paying for their kids college tuition...........to be fair every diesel engine has been plagued with their own shortcomings just not as many as the 6.0...u might not like a dodge/cummins combo but they have 40% less parts to deal with and everything is accessible. No ford doesn't own cummins you can get cummins engine in class 6 trucks, as well as a cat motor. yes navistar counter sued and lost........and yes if your not carefull a 5.4 engine will puuuck its spark plugs........if u can a descent truck that has a good warranty then buy it, as soon as warranty is over get rid of it, u will be paying top dollar to fix it. I am only speaking from experience i know many here own 6.0's....................im sorry..... few of the bugs in that engine were redesigned by 07 model year, not all of them.

Wow, thats a very accurate post! Its amazing to see..

scagrider22
01-26-2010, 12:24 AM
Wow, thats a very accurate post! Its amazing to see..

Agreed!
:usflag:

stihlboy
01-26-2010, 01:16 AM
i do not by any means intend to offend anyone, but the facts r the facts $500,000,000 in warranty claims on the 6.0 and ford severing its relationship with navistar says it all. Ive worked on diesels for many years, the 6.0 is a mastery of complex design, and a mechanics dream. they smile every time one is in the parking lot or on the back of a flatbed and their smiling because they know u will be paying for their kids college tuition...........to be fair every diesel engine has been plagued with their own shortcomings just not as many as the 6.0...u might not like a dodge/cummins combo but they have 40% less parts to deal with and everything is accessible. No ford doesn't own cummins you can get cummins engine in class 6 trucks, as well as a cat motor. yes navistar counter sued and lost........and yes if your not carefull a 5.4 engine will puuuck its spark plugs........if u can a descent truck that has a good warranty then buy it, as soon as warranty is over get rid of it, u will be paying top dollar to fix it. I am only speaking from experience i know many here own 6.0's....................im sorry..... few of the bugs in that engine were redesigned by 07 model year, not all of them.

i agree to an extent on what i hi-lighted, the later frpp head for the 5.4 does not do that

Mahoney3223
01-27-2010, 12:53 AM
so what is the new ford diesel in 2010s? someone told me that was a cummins

scagrider22
01-27-2010, 12:55 AM
so what is the new ford diesel in 2010s? someone told me that was a cummins

No its a Kubota diesel!!:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Junior M
01-27-2010, 07:57 AM
No its a Kubota diesel!!:laugh::laugh::laugh:
I heard it was a Yanmar..


:laugh: :laugh:

ruffs
01-27-2010, 01:54 PM
the 5.4 are weak motor but the trans are geared extreamly low and with a 4.10 or lower rear you will be towing for many years. gvw is the key

TXNSLighting
01-27-2010, 02:32 PM
so what is the new ford diesel in 2010s? someone told me that was a cummins

Ha! Youre a funny one!

Mahoney3223
01-28-2010, 10:55 AM
lmao....looks like i got some bites!!!!!:weightlifter::laugh:

TXNSLighting
01-28-2010, 01:47 PM
:laugh::laugh::laugh:

mowzilla
01-28-2010, 10:21 PM
way i understand is ford is building this one in house..google it.. they have learned for the 6.0 days and this might be their next big homerun.

scagrider22
01-28-2010, 10:58 PM
way i understand is ford is building this one in house..google it.. they have learned for the 6.0 days and this might be their next big homerun.

Old news we were all joking about who is building the new 6.7 Powerstroke!

Palmt2
03-13-2010, 02:35 AM
I Recently just purchased a 2004 ford f250 xl regular cab truck with 65k and it has the the 5.4L V-8 330 Cubic inch rated at 260 hp at 4,500 rpm and 350lbs at 2,500 rpm and it has plenty of power for pulling a full load of grass/debris and shrubs and it does great for normal applications pulling a light utility trailer with my mowers and trimmers.

I get about 12 -13 mpg max at the best on the highway cruising and on average about 9 mpg pulling a heavy load up steep grades, but yeah the 5.4L Triton is a very dependable strong reliable motor and i hope it will last at least 150k with upkeep and maintenance with little to no problems. The 6.0 Diesel has 325 hp at 3,300 rpm and 560lbs at 2,000 rpm for 2003/2004 models and the 2005-2007 f250/350 models have the 570lbs torch rating and its a good motor when its running but the head bolt issues and turbo/ EGR problems are what people are most concerned about the 6 liter diesels, but they deffinately go get better miles per gallon problem 14-18 mpg max with full loads.

hornett22
03-13-2010, 02:44 PM
True but all these problems can be sorted cheap, for a few hundred $ or less.
- carefully torque plugs and there should'nt be any problems, and if so a Calvan insert will fix it.
- regular use of dielectric grease should keep COPs safe from humidity and aftermarket units are cheap
- mine does'nt use much oil so I can not comment on that

Other than that the 5.4 is a fine motor. Since it lacks any engine character whatsoever people often mistake it for a slug, but the truth is it pulls just fine. Mine returns 13-14mpg towing 3000-3500lbs and without a trailer about 18mpg using overdrive.

I agree though a V10 costs only a grand more, gets nearly as good a mileage and can tow more than a 5.4

what if you're not mechanically inclined.the dealer charged my buddy $1300 to repair 3 ejected spark plugs and never touched the broken manifold bolts.Fords are junk and have been for years.My 86 Chevy C30 doesn't give me near the trouble his Fords do.I am a mechanic but I shouldn't have to be working on a truck that new.My 1997 T100 with 204,000 doesn't have the problems my buddies F-250 with 80,000.

If I had to buy a truck besides a pick up at this point,it would be a Mitsu Fuso.They seem bullet proof from what I see from the ones my buddies own.If I had to replace my Toyota T100,it would be a Tundra.Americans have a long way to go as far as trucks.I won't buy another American truck until the US manufacturers get out from under the Union scum suckers.

jkilov
03-13-2010, 10:57 PM
what if you're not mechanically inclined.the dealer charged my buddy $1300 to repair 3 ejected spark plugs and never touched the broken manifold bolts.
That sounds weird. For that money a new head should be in order and to access requires manifold removal. Anyway, most 5.4 repair work is cheap, even at dealerships, especially compared to a 6.0 powerstroke.


If I had to replace my Toyota T100,it would be a Tundra.Americans have a long way to go as far as trucks.I won't buy another American truck until the US manufacturers get out from under the Union scum suckers.
From personal experience I can tell you toyota's are a poor buy. Up to 2001 their cars were quality, after 2004 that started slipping and beyond 2008 is simply junk. Guaranteed serious failures combined with ludicrously overpriced parts ensure they become a money pit or junk pile. I know you don't believe me, but one day you will.

360ci
03-14-2010, 02:34 PM
The 5.4 can hold it's own but don't expect more than 15mpg highway. Diesel isn't much better empty but can be beneficial when pulling a lot of weight to see a slight mpg increase. Diesel will also give you better resale as the miles pile on. From a maintenance stand point I'd probably opt for the 5.4L, only because I do my own maintenance and it's an easy engine to work on, not to mention 800lbs lighter than the diesel.

goodolboyslandscaping
03-14-2010, 07:41 PM
Why would anyone want to pull heavy loads all the time with a gas engine? Diesel all the way. If gas engines really got better mileage than diesels, and if gas engines really have more power than engines, then why arn't there any gas semi trucks. Simply put. If you can afford a diesel, get one. I have owned diesel trucks my whole life and have outlasted all gas trucks. I prefer Dodge Cummins and CAT Diesel engines. Get a dodge cummins truck with a 6-speed, you wont be dissapointed.

360ci
03-14-2010, 07:53 PM
Why would anyone want to pull heavy loads all the time with a gas engine? Diesel all the way. If gas engines really got better mileage than diesels, and if gas engines really have more power than engines, then why arn't there any gas semi trucks. Simply put. If you can afford a diesel, get one. I have owned diesel trucks my whole life and have outlasted all gas trucks. I prefer Dodge Cummins and CAT Diesel engines. Get a dodge cummins truck with a 6-speed, you wont be dissapointed.

Diesel is the way to go to pull more than 7K on a regular basis, but the 5.4L could handle it, and performance will suffer but mileage will be similar to the diesel unless you plan to climb hills 90% of the time.

chicken74701
03-14-2010, 11:16 PM
I have a buddy who is a diesel mechanic and he says the 6.0 is a total piece of junk. And he's a Ford man. I have two 7.3's and he tells me to keep them on the road and not buy a 6.0. He says they will eat you up with little things that break. I've had fantastic luck with the 7.3's. I have an F-250 and an F-550. Both pull like locomotives.

unkownfl
03-15-2010, 01:14 AM
6.0 is a decent motor 7.3's are good but you need a manual to tow with it as the auto behind the 6.0 is better. The 5.4 has a good auto transmission. 5.4 towing that kind of weight every day would last about 80k 120k miles a 6.0 would go over 200k. Oil in the 5.4 towing would need changed every 3000 miles and transmission about every 10k. 6.0 7500 miles on the oil and 20k on the transmission. So fluid change would be about even when you consider the quantity it takes to change 6 qts vs 15. Two fuel filters on the 6.0 vs 1 on the gas. Air filter on the 6.0 is at least 5 times more expensive. I personally don't like the 5.4 and would buy a 6.0 instead. It may not be cheaper but will hold up better and if you decide to sell the 6.0 will not depreciate as much as the 5.4 truck. Towing with the 5.4 will get you around 8mpg in the city vs 14-16 in the 6.0 but diesel is a little more if you don't make your own...

hornett22
03-15-2010, 10:20 AM
That sounds weird. For that money a new head should be in order and to access requires manifold removal. Anyway, most 5.4 repair work is cheap, even at dealerships, especially compared to a 6.0 powerstroke.


From personal experience I can tell you toyota's are a poor buy. Up to 2001 their cars were quality, after 2004 that started slipping and beyond 2008 is simply junk. Guaranteed serious failures combined with ludicrously overpriced parts ensure they become a money pit or junk pile. I know you don't believe me, but one day you will.

because everyone I know with a Tundra says it's the best truck they have ever owned.every one I know with and American truck is having nothing but problems.

I'll stick with Toyota,at least they have the balls to admit they made a mistake and fix the problems.

goodolboyslandscaping
03-15-2010, 12:20 PM
Diesel is the way to go to pull more than 7K on a regular basis, but the 5.4L could handle it, and performance will suffer but mileage will be similar to the diesel unless you plan to climb hills 90% of the time.

We do alot of work in the mountains and the diesel has never dissapointed us. Don't get my wrong, I bought my boy a F250 gas, but later bought him a Dodge Cummins. The cummins pulls great up the mountains here in AZ. He uses his F250 gas for riding in town, and minor stuff, pulling small trailers etc. So it goes both ways, but I still prefer diesel over gas. Cummins is the way to go. Just my .02 :)

TXNSLighting
03-15-2010, 03:08 PM
because everyone I know with a Tundra says it's the best truck they have ever owned.every one I know with and American truck is having nothing but problems.

I'll stick with Toyota,at least they have the balls to admit they made a mistake and fix the problems.

Then you must not know many people.

unkownfl
03-15-2010, 04:54 PM
I had a Toyota Tundra with the 4.7 it was the body style before the present. It was a good truck but not comparable to a f250 by any means. I wouldn't rate it over a f150 either in the same year. Not because it broke it just couldn't handle a trailer not even as good as my 4.2l f150 can.

jkilov
03-15-2010, 06:22 PM
I'll stick with Toyota,at least they have the balls to admit they made a mistake and fix the problems.

Balls eh? They were FORCED to make recalls after years of lies and denial and 35 people dead.

And even then Mr. Toyoda's statement was "We are working very hard to prepare an explanation ..." WTF?

These recalls are just the tip of the iceberg. Hey Ford is no jewel either, just as fat a liar but their vehicles and parts are cheaper.

05 superduty
03-30-2010, 11:02 PM
I have a 2005 f-250 supercab with the 3v 6.8l v-10 and this thing is a ****** beast,pulls my t-300 bobcat like its not even on the trailer. My friends got a 04 supercab with the 5.4 in it and its not bad but depending on what your pullin, bigger is better.

05 superduty
03-30-2010, 11:03 PM
Oh yeah, toyota trucks SUCK!!!!!!!!!!:usflag::itflag:

360ci
03-30-2010, 11:37 PM
Oh yeah, toyota trucks SUCK!!!!!!!!!!:usflag::itflag:

You consider those trucks? They're a new class called GPM's; glorified people movers. I like how Toyota can have a 10K+ tow rating with the Tundra, yet the payload is only 1180lbs (min). How's that work with a driver? Hmmm.

The only one I'd consider would be the Tacoma with the 2.7L engine. It's not good at hauling more than two people even with the ext cab, but it can tow small trailers which is in my ballpark.

nepatsfan
03-30-2010, 11:51 PM
I remember back about 18 months ago when diesel was $5 a gallon a whole lot of people crying here on Lawnsite about it. There is no way in the world I would get sucked into a diesel unless I absolutely, positively must have it.

Diesel is already $3 a gallon in spots here in NC and as high as $4 a gallon in California and $3.80 in New York.

http://www.californiagasprices.com/76_Gas_Stations/North_Hills/7040/index.aspx

http://www.newyorkgasprices.com/Mobil_Gas_Stations/Queens/9642/index.aspx

They are raising the fuel prices so slowly that hardly anyone is noticing. But I am and I'm not happy about it.

I wasn't crying about it and I won't. When diesel is high gas is high too. I would rather have a diesel.