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RLDesign
02-05-2010, 11:30 AM
Halo - H1499RT Recessed Lighting - Remodeler Housing

This client will only take recessed fixtures for security and downlights. I am looking for a rotating fixture with some degree of positioning. It can be low or line voltage, but I want a nice brass or black trim and adjustability. The adjustability and beam variations leads me toward lowvolt lamps/fixture, but not sure if anyone out there has any other suggestions. Any help on this or transformer selection for inside use would be great.

WAC Cooper QTRAN and many others. What are peoples experiences with safe interior transformers, probably 4 zones of about 300 watts on each zone, and 1 zone (security) with 500 watts. For the security zone, I have 5 locations that my client wants motion sensor turn on of spot lights. We are thinking about using recessed fixtures with 35-50W wide floods. How would I tie them all together? I was thinking about powering them in clusters of 2 by location using UPB controls. I was thinking about using ABT wireless sensors on the low-volt side, and setting up a master switch for the security through that route since the 5 security light/sensor locations stretch across 2 buildings. Talk soon.
Tanek

NightScenes
02-05-2010, 11:42 AM
Tanek, most of the larger companies transformers that we all use on a regular bases are rated for indoor/outdoor use so check the unit that you use most to see if it's rated for interior use. QTran is very good for sure.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
02-05-2010, 11:44 AM
Tanek, have you seen the Halo H3 line? Nice trims. I still prefer the Contrast Line myself, more trim options there in the 3000 series. IT3000E cans and T3450D trims.

Qtran have a remarkable line of interior remote LV transformers. Much better than the UCP (new accronym - Ubiquitous Chinese Product) stuff that Juno, Progress, Hampton Bay and other "retail" lines offer. Much more expensive mind you, but you will appreciate their features and functions.

I would suggest the UPB solution as it is comprehensive and adaptable. Better than mixing technologies of switches, dimmers and remote controls.

Regards

JoeyD
02-05-2010, 01:13 PM
FWIW Our units are approved for both indoor and outdoor use. Our units, including our homeline units are used regularly for interior lighting.

S&MLL
02-05-2010, 03:56 PM
James does any upb company make a motion sensor?



Tanek the abt motion sensor im very happy with. But it is not a top of the line system. For some projects it has limited capabilites. Ive also been testing the sunset for about 3 weeks with no problems

RLDesign
02-05-2010, 04:02 PM
Tanek, have you seen the Halo H3 line? Nice trims. I still prefer the Contrast Line myself, more trim options there in the 3000 series. IT3000E cans and T3450D trims.

Qtran have a remarkable line of interior remote LV transformers. Much better than the UCP (new accronym - Ubiquitous Chinese Product) stuff that Juno, Progress, Hampton Bay and other "retail" lines offer. Much more expensive mind you, but you will appreciate their features and functions.

I would suggest the UPB solution as it is comprehensive and adaptable. Better than mixing technologies of switches, dimmers and remote controls.

Regards

James, Who of the UCP companies would you suggest for an interior 300-600 watt transformer? On a UPB system, 4 zones of lighting equals for 4 transformers, correct??

Thanks,

Tanek

S&MLL
02-05-2010, 04:26 PM
Correct Tanek. They only system that is multizone on one trans is the ABT

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
02-06-2010, 09:48 AM
James, Who of the UCP companies would you suggest for an interior 300-600 watt transformer? On a UPB system, 4 zones of lighting equals for 4 transformers, correct??

Thanks,

Tanek

Tanek, I guess I would start with Juno for a reasonably priced 300-600w interior transformer. Just make sure the darned things come with on board secondary side protection. (probably small round resettable breakers). Most of these things look the same, they are small black steel cubes, magetic core&coil type.

On the other hand, you get what you pay for. You know the refrain.

Kiril
02-06-2010, 10:33 AM
Here is my UPB setup for interior/exterior lighting

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=168462&d=1258819169

Note the two 12 x 12 enclosures ... one to house interior transformer(s), one to house exterior transformer(s).

The two gang box below the enclosures will house UPB relays to power (on/off) the transformers when needed. The 4 gang box above will also house UPB relays for the various exterior lighting.

@James

Since this is a downlighting thread, have you had the chance to evaluate any of the Cree recessed downlight products?

http://www.creelighting.com/products.htm

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
02-06-2010, 11:37 AM
@James

Since this is a downlighting thread, have you had the chance to evaluate any of the Cree recessed downlight products?

http://www.creelighting.com/products.htm

I have looked at most of the mainstream lines of interior LED recessed lighting and to be honest with you, I dont like them. So far all I have seen are rather large diameter product with really limited trim options and even more limited optic options. I suppose if you were installing for some generic downlighting in a generic home you could use the current offerings, but then if that were the case, the clients would probably not spring for the 300% increase in component costs associated with LED fixtures.

Until the products change drastically by offering more optic options and much nicer trim options I don't think I will be going there. In fact, I am betting that I will have a 340+ Lumen, fully dimmable LED MR16 on the market way before integrated led fixtures catch up. Now that will be a game changer!

LED cove and undercabinet lighting is a different story as there are a number of effective, efficient options available with great features. A little pricey still, but for those clients who want "current" and "trick" we have the options.

RLI Electric
02-06-2010, 11:50 AM
James, any thoughts on a time period for the MR 16 LED's. I have clients asking about them more and more and I would really like to be able to tell them we are not too far off.

Kiril
02-06-2010, 12:40 PM
I have looked at most of the mainstream lines of interior LED recessed lighting and to be honest with you, I dont like them. So far all I have seen are rather large diameter product with really limited trim options and even more limited optic options. I suppose if you were installing for some generic downlighting in a generic home you could use the current offerings, but then if that were the case, the clients would probably not spring for the 300% increase in component costs associated with LED fixtures.

Until the products change drastically by offering more optic options and much nicer trim options I don't think I will be going there. In fact, I am betting that I will have a 340+ Lumen, fully dimmable LED MR16 on the market way before integrated led fixtures catch up. Now that will be a game changer!

Thanks for your feedback. I am the client in this case, and I will be putting some type of LED into my recessed can fixtures (interior and exterior soffit), as well as under cabinet and cove (cove if the prices get more reasonable). I don't have a problem with forking out money for a good can light that will actually stand chance at reaching the estimated life without huge drops in performance.

Trim options are somewhat important, but I will easily take performance and longevity over a wide variety of trim options any day of the week. Biggest problem is with CA Title 24 requirements and swappable bulbs.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
02-06-2010, 01:05 PM
James, any thoughts on a time period for the MR 16 LED's. I have clients asking about them more and more and I would really like to be able to tell them we are not too far off.

Well there is one line of LED MR16's currently on the market that offer 300Lumens, 3000K, +80CRI (close to 35W Halogen equivalent) and are somewhat dimmable (depending on your transformer and dimmer technology) but the price per lamp will make you choke!

Bottom line is "no lamp before it's time" from my end. Prototypes are in final testing stages. There is nobody here that wants to see these available more than I do. We are not too far off on delivering an acceptable 35w Halogen equivalent light output (340+ Lumens, 3000K, +80CRI) in an ANSI MR16 Form (very critical to not build a lamp that cannot fit into all MR16 fixtures). Next stage is full dimmability, both leading edge and trailing edge dimmers. The engineers say it is possible, just need to think outside the box and belly up the funds.

Regards

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
02-06-2010, 01:13 PM
Thanks for your feedback. I am the client in this case, and I will be putting some type of LED into my recessed can fixtures (interior and exterior soffit), as well as under cabinet and cove (cove if the prices get more reasonable). I don't have a problem with forking out money for a good can light that will actually stand chance at reaching the estimated life without huge drops in performance.

Trim options are somewhat important, but I will easily take performance and longevity over a wide variety of trim options any day of the week. Biggest problem is with CA Title 24 requirements and swappable bulbs.

Watch the use of these in exterior applications. I am not sure if any are "wet location" listed yet.

Trim and optic options are very important for most. The current product offereings are basically static downlight flood formats. No trim colour options, no glare control options, no aim-ability, and no options in terms of flood, narrow flood, spot output. This makes it very hard to light an interior properly when you are accustomed to providing multiple zones/effects in the same space. You cannot use these to highlight art/sculpture, pinpoint, or even effectively wall wash. They are a one trick pony for the most part, with relatively large 4" or 6" round openings framed with white trims and shiny reflectors. Tract home stuff in my opinion, but those in tract homes would never pay the 300% upgrade cost.

Regards

Kiril
02-06-2010, 01:45 PM
Watch the use of these in exterior applications. I am not sure if any are "wet location" listed yet.

Trim and optic options are very important for most. The current product offereings are basically static downlight flood formats. No trim colour options, no glare control options, no aim-ability, and no options in terms of flood, narrow flood, spot output. This makes it very hard to light an interior properly when you are accustomed to providing multiple zones/effects in the same space. You cannot use these to highlight art/sculpture, pinpoint, or even effectively wall wash. They are a one trick pony for the most part, with relatively large 4" or 6" round openings framed with white trims and shiny reflectors. Tract home stuff in my opinion, but those in tract homes would never pay the 300% upgrade cost.

Regards

This is the line I was looking at a couple of years ago. It was Permlight, that now is being handled by Progressive.

This one is "aimable", however I don't have any idea how effective it will be for highlighting paintings (which is how I plan on using this model)

http://progresslighting.com/products.aspx?product=P8027-30QL35K

and the general flood (interior).

http://progresslighting.com/products.aspx?product=P8058-30QL27K

There are some different options for both.

I have also recently been considering Lightolier's new Calculite line, which has some decent offerings, along with models listed for wet locations.

http://www.lightolier.com/prospots/down_led.jsp

Optics are important, appearance not as much.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
02-06-2010, 02:02 PM
This is the line I was looking at a couple of years ago. It was Permlight, that now is being handled by Progressive.

This one is "aimable", however I don't have any idea how effective it will be for highlighting paintings (which is how I plan on using this model)

http://progresslighting.com/products.aspx?product=P8027-30QL35K

and the general flood (interior).

http://progresslighting.com/products.aspx?product=P8058-30QL27K

There are some different options for both.

I have also recently been considering Lightolier's new Calculite line, which has some decent offerings, along with models listed for wet locations.

http://www.lightolier.com/prospots/down_led.jsp

Optics are important, appearance not as much.

Of those I would go with the Lightolier as they are a Phillips brand and thus using proprietary technology. Progress I am not so sure. Probably borrowing tech from others. Good luck highlighting and wall washing with no variable optics. Let us know how it works out. Regards.
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Kiril
02-06-2010, 02:52 PM
Of those I would go with the Lightolier as they are a Phillips brand and thus using proprietary technology. Progress I am not so sure. Probably borrowing tech from others. Good luck highlighting and wall washing with no variable optics. Let us know how it works out. Regards.
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Progress uses the Permlight Tech. To my knowledge Permlight was the first to bring LED recessed can options to market. A couple of years after they released those products, they sold their fixture part of the biz to Progress and went exclusively into manufacturing components.

http://www.permlight.com/

Pro-Scapes
02-07-2010, 12:38 PM
Im a big fan of the lightolier 2000 series. I just put 10 in an interior wood ceiling with a 24 degree slope and it worked out really well. I used 2004IVCN for this since the area was to be insulated.

On soffits and other non insulated or remodel ones I use lightolier LVR2000 frame in housings with various trims. Right now I am specing a handful of these to highlight focal points and statues inside a home. Some of them will even be armed with EZY or EZX lamps lighting focal points from 20 ft up. lamps. These fixtures use a 12v mr16 so should accept some LED retrofits with no problem.

As far as the UPB dimmers we use different models but our most common is the simply automated USR 1140w or something similar depending on the load we need to control.

I have placed these in attics in line between the breaker and loads to be controlled with excellent results. If the client wishes come control over the attic mounted controls I will place a US2-40. or similar in a easy to reach location downstairs then create a link in upstart.

There is also a kit i think from simply automated with 2 regular dimmers and the touchpad dimmer as well. Also avalible is a UPB starter kit which includes the computer interface mod and a breaker mount phase coupler.

Note that UPB gear is 120v so you will need an EC to install it.