Im 17 and need help growing into bigger company

[DLONGLANDSCAPING]

Hi everyone
My name is Jason and I live in Birmingham,MI. I am a 17 year old kid and i started my company with my dads 21 in arines mower, a weed eater trimmer, a black n decker edger and a toro blower. Now, 6 years later i bought my self a 2006 dodge ram 1500 quad cab (installed 3" lift, cab lights, behind the grille off road lights,wheel spacers and navigation. My setup includes a brand new, just ordered 7x16 sure trac tandem trailer with a 2' front landscape box and a 48" side ramp. I have a 60" Exmark Lazer Z xs with 500 hours (bought for 5600 last year October) , 48" viking with proslide and bagger, (2) redmax blowers (ebz8050-brand new) and i have all BRAND NEW SHINDAIWA TRIMMERS i bought on ebay for around half of what they are retailing for at weingartz. I got a 34cc C4 shinny for 220, a t282 for 180, t262x for 180, (2)le261 for 175 each and three red max 29.5 cc trimmers for 200 dollars all together. I honestly have no idea how i found such good prices but i got a whole new setup this year as i am trying to grow from 28 customers(around 25 dollars per cut) to my goal of 60 customers and finishing my senior year of high school. btw, the reason for getting the extra trimmers is 2 for my trailer and the rest to sell on c/l to make a profit for my senior trip. YAY:drinkup:

I guess, i need help getting organized this year, how should i get customers?

Also, my billing sucks, i am using word and doing each invoice separately and it takes FOREVER, almost 5 hours each month just billing. I write down all my clients in my planner when i cut, what side jobs i have, but i need a better system.

Also, i am looking to get commercial accounts this year. I am prob not going to be insured and i haven't paid taxes but the 2010 season will be the first season i will be a legal business with help from my dad. I don't know how to get a commercial account, and how to approach and get in contact with the commercial property owner, i have tried to get in touch with a lot of apartment complexes around here (as i can mow almost 5 acres and hour with my60" exmark lazer xs 35hp and 48" going at the same time, but i never get a call back.

Also, what set off getting my business insurance, is my AAA agent doesn't cover plows on my truck and i wanted to get a plow this winter, but instead opted to get a 45" cub cadet 420 cc snow blower. I wish i could of got-ton a snow blower but i don't want to hit something and have them sue** me for everything my parents own. My dad has been struggling at work to pay the bills and such and i don't want to see him any more stressed than he already is. Business insurance to go with a private insurance agent for a 17 year old would have been 750 per month, plus 1000 deductible if i damaged anything, and i thought i wasnt worth it, i only had my church parking lot to plow and around 15 residential. AND THANK GOD I DIDN'T BECAUSE WE HAVE HAD ONE, 3" snow this year and nothing else.

I will try to post pics of my equipment as soon as i get the trailer and racks set up in early march.

PLEASE HELP ME, i need all the advise i can get. I am in the process of handing out lawn fliers that are pretty damn awesome this year and my new sales promotion is any job (spring clean up, landscaping, mulch installation,ect) 200 dollars or more , you can receive a month free lawn mowing if you sign a contract with DeLong Landscaping for weekly lawn for 2010 season . And if you sign before March 31st, any lawn in the area will be 20 dollars

[Centralmichiganlawncare]

hey jason im brandon i live in lansing mi i have a lawn and landscape company and im just starting. i have to say if you want comm. accounts you have to be insured some people want 2 mill coverge. and another thing if you have a company name picked out make sure you go to the county court house and fille your dba you cant operate legaly without it so iv been told. i filed mine last week went 10 min. down the road to the graphics shop to qoute out for my truck and trailer and found out that some 18 year old kid had his truck lettered 4 months ago. basicly double check and triple check that the name is avalable. if you have any questions or want more advice email me goinggreenlawn@yahoo.com

[dirt&snow]

you didnt mention any future education plans....my advise would be to definitely go to college, you may not like it but i highly recommend a 4 year university. sure you might do excellent with your business, but what if you get bored with it and you wanna sell the business, you're outta luck unless you to go to school afterwards, which is a hassle in most cases.

get quickbooks! you can do 20 customers online for free, just have to sign up on their site. but if you plan on increasing your customer list, get quickbooks pro, its about 200 bucks depending on where ya get it at.

[g21]

Jason,
very impressive. You're off to a great start. You do need Quickbooks. Just buy it now and get it over with. You're going to need it to grow your business. The earlier you learn the financial disciplines of operating you business the better.

I'm a Ford guy, but it's a great looking truck!

Let me know if you need any help.

T.

[DLONGLANDSCAPING]

sorry for not giving you enough information. I got into MSU this year and i am planning to go to the landscape architecture and ag tech(irrigation, design, lawns, turf management, pesticides, arborist, and much more). To the post about the truck, i wish i got a ford but i only would get the 2008 super duty SLT or Lariate imo i think dodge makes a better truck quality for the 1/2 ton, the ford truck that is around 35,000 new doesn't have two tones seats or any of the included options the big hornY does. lol. . I love my dodge and that picture isn't up dated, that was the dealer i bought it from, picture they had on the web site. I put a ton of money in it and made it look like a 2500 with a nice throaty exhaust, lift kit, cab lights air intake, and tow hooks, and i painted all the moldings and upper bumper matt black to look like the POWER WAGON. I also got the side rail bed protectors, a mopar diamond plate tool box to store some tools and replacement parts such as spindles, belts, trimmer line, and scalp wheels for my lazer z xs

To the post about the quickbooks, I looked at the web site and dont like how it asks for your bank number and password. Im sorry but i dont want anyone online looking at my account information, from all the hackers out there now adays. I might sound stupid saying this, but i would rather have a program that i could incert the days i services the customers property for each customers, click the print button once and have all my customers names and dates and invoices printed with one click, maybe im dreaming or maybe i should get into the computer programming businesness. Haha. I love this site and EVERYONE should use it

Thanks for all your help. Also, if any one could help on how to get my business legal and what it costs would be great also. I really need help, if anyone has some extra time on their hands, numbers i could call, and insurance companies that done charge 500 per month for a business insurance for a truck and trailer would be great.

Thanks in advanced for all the help again,

Jason D

[dirt&snow]

where did quickbooks ask for your bank info? im guessing what they want is your credit card number if you're buying software, you could always use paypal. im confident and dont have a problem buying online with my cards. you can always take them to court if need be...

but go to target and buy QB Pro, they have it there, walmart, best buy, you name it..

[DLONGLANDSCAPING]

wow im a flamming idiot. I typed in quickens not quickbooks and they wanted me to have my bank account number. thanks for the update, im gonna go to target tomorrow and get things rolling.

[EcoGreen Services]

Quickbooks Pro is well worth the investment. It's a great system for the price.
.
The other advice is customers before hardware.
I buy most of my equipment used, Some barely used from guys who thought they had a account. I just bought a new 48" Toro Grandstand with 6 hours on it which retails here for about $8000 for $5000 because somebody "thought" they had the business for it and it killed them.

Don't buy new trucks, A 3 year old truck that has just seen personal use can be bought for 1/2 or less than a new one and has a ton of life left in it.

Good Luck to you !!

[DLONGLANDSCAPING]

i dont think im being clear enough. I bought my truck in 2008, its a 2006 , i bought it for a steal. The dealer was asking 16,500 for it and my dad got them down to 13,000, and so paid it off in full. The sticker was 35,0000. Also, i buy all used mowers too, i got my lazer z xs for 5600 dollars with 700 hours on it, and i had a exmark metro i bought for 1500(48") i just sold that on craigslist along with some old trimmers, from when i first started, an old redmax blower, a 7x12 trailer, (all in all i spent around 4000 over the years in equipment and sold it all for 7,250 to a guy through c/l. BEST MONEY I EVER MADE AND LET ME EXPAND MY EQUIPMENT SOO MUCH. Now, i am going to but a 48" viking on ebay with 800 hrs on it for 2000 shipped to my door. The only thing i bought full price was the trailer, an im sure it is going to be worth the investment.


ANY ONE OUT THERE WITH INSURANCE AND LEGAL ADVICE, PLEASE CHIME IN,

[dirt&snow]

I dont know of any insurance companies that would insure someone thats 17 for a business, you have to be 18 to legally sign a contract. dont be afraid of what everyone says about buying new vehicles/mowers. there are good deals out there, and you can have the features you want in them as well as warranties on em.

[Lazer Cut]

hey buddy... I'm just now 18 and have a 2mil liability policy and signed 5 commercial properties and had 2 already so 7 commercial total.

When I was 17 and tried to get insurance... I called Nationwide and they sent me to this other guy. 1 mil liability policy for me at 17 was only $485 + tax... Only deal was he wanted it in full. No payments etc. so only $485 + tax and I was fully insured. Not a bad deal but when I started out I sold my jet ski and after buying a old as hell mower, trailer, trimmer I only had like $1300 left and I needed some of that to help buy me a truck... plus I needed money just in case my old handheld blower or something went wrong. Just call a nationwide or some other decent insurance agency and tell them your situation and what not and they should be able to help you out... pm me with any questions

[DLONGLANDSCAPING]

hey
thanks for your help, i will be giving them a call tonight. I love hearing real life expiriences. Other than insurance, what else do you need such as license, tax, and how do i go about getting legal?

[Lazer Cut]

If you are solo you can do a dba and you'll be fine. So instaed of a EIN you'll just use your social security number. Taxes, just talk to a local tax guy hell give you all the advice you need. In ohio you can get a vendors license from any bmv. When I went to get one they wanted like $50 or something like that... I didn't get one cause I hadn't registered my name yet. I will see if I still need or will be benificial to have a vendors license for my biz. If it don't help or hurt my biz then I'm not wasting my money.

Doing fert you'll need a pesticide license at least here you have to take classes... to lay down seed I don't have to though.
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[mcwlandscaping]

I'm 19 and have been doing this for awhile, all i'm going to say is:

1) get insured
2) get licensed, registered and whatever else it takes to be legal in your state
3) NICELY letter up the truck
4) KEEP UP WITH SCHOOL!
5) take accounting courses if you possibly can, they will pay off greatly
6) Write a business plan for yourself and STICK TO IT!
7) Finally for now, i know its hard but don't feel like you need to grow real fast! I had that mentality but have enough friends here in the industry to have changed my mind about that. Last year i employed a few people and it was alright but it came with a lot of headaches. This year i'm going mostly solo (will need help on a few big projects) and should be making well over twice as much as i did last year. It is all about how you plan things. Sure you'll have to take some crap jobs but as you get some good fixed clients, you'll be able to be a little more choosy about what kind of work and clients you want!

There's a lot you can learn from this site, just don't get discouraged! There will be roadbumps along the way but keeping your composure and having a great plan will get you through just about everything and will help you avoid even more!

[DLONGLANDSCAPING]

thanks so much guys for helping. I have found that i have more potential clients then actual clients and i find myself compulsively writing down all the names of my customers during school, and every time i fill up a page with potential customers, i start a new one. The exact same list but include a reasonable way to get the customers( such as lowering price offering free spring clean up, a month free, and so on) i find my self using a whole chemistry notebook for my business, and then in ever class they are all full. I think if i got insured bonded and license's i would be way more appealing to the higher class people that want to make sure everything is perfect on their lawn and landscape including apartment complexes and commercial property. I really would like to go commercially this year , since i have all this beautifully new equipment and high hp engines on my mowers, i feel i can handle a lot more than i could last year, i was thinking triple. My only stuggle is baseball season. I WORK ALLLLLL SATURDAYS AND SUNDAYS FROM DUSK TO DAWN!!!

[MnDLawn]

My only stuggle is baseball season.

Must be nice to be young. :laugh:

[DLONGLANDSCAPING]

im a lefty picture and i throw around 85 mph. I got a full ride scholorship to eastern university and i just dont love baseball enough to go there. I got a half scholoship to msu for achedimics and im takin the msu offer, i have green in my blood. Dad works there, sister goes there, dad, mom, both sets of grandparents , uncles and aunts ALL went there. My great grandpa was one of the first years to go there when they had sports.

I love landscaping and it treats me too well to give up for baseball, its either one of the other

[DLONGLANDSCAPING]

hi everyone, i just got in a fight with my mom about this and im wondering if shes right. Do you have to pay taxes to be insured? i said no, but she said yes. That if i want business insurance to cover me i would need to pay taxes. I dont get it. PLEASE HELP

Jason

[bigw]

hi everyone, i just got in a fight with my mom about this and im wondering if shes right. Do you have to pay taxes to be insured? i said no, but she said yes. That if i want business insurance to cover me i would need to pay taxes. I dont get it. PLEASE HELP

Jason

you dont have to pay taxes to be insured you just have to pay them to stay out of jail and also your idea of giving away a free months worth of lawn mowing just because someone spends 200 dollars or more on another service is ridiculous and down right foolish to do,for one it makes your company look desperate for work and does not look very professional to me not to mention is going to make you broke.
You are going to be working for nothing and in this business most customers are not going to sign a yearly contract...look you need alot of help before you start out wrong and i know your young but trust me you are doing this wrong AND I CANT BELIEVE NO ONE ELSE HAS SAID NOT TO OFFER A FREE MONTH OF LAWN CARE, why should you work for free just because they had you do a different service??? Have pride and faith in yourself and do good work and you wont have to give away the farm...look i may not know it all but i know one thing you need better advice then what you have been getting.I would be willing to talk to you if you'd like on the phone. OH and also any lawn for 20$ you will regret that idea when the house is 1/2 acre with a pool and 2 trampolines and 20 walnut trees...another wrong idea!!

[dowjones]

Whats your major?

[DLONGLANDSCAPING]

thanks for your help. I offer the 20 dollars to neighborhood, the properties are 1/3 of an acre in size and the hosue sits on more than half, its like 3 passes with a 48" on each lawn front and back. I would never go for a 20 dollar lawn any where else but in my neighborhood, as of other neighborhoods i have 4 houses in a row, about an acre in size and heavily wooded that i have each paying (2) 85 (2)corners at 125. Thats where i make most of my money on the big properties where i dont get off my lawn mower for an hour.

[Stevegotcrabgrass]

Wow. Let me do some math. So you've been at it 6 years. You have 24 customers at around 25 a cut and you have 4 customers listed above which total 420 a week. So weekly maintenance revenue is $1020. Lets assume 30 cuts a year. So $30600 a year. Over the life of your business you have grossed about $183,600. You are advertising cleanups etc at $200 so add that to your revenue 200 x 28 = 5600. 5600 x 6 years = 33600. So a good estimate would be about $217,200 that you NEVER paid taxes on. Now this is the fun part. 6 years worth of interest, back taxes, and penalties. You have Income tax never paid, SE tax never paid, SS tax never paid, state/local taxes never paid, sales tax (if applicable) never paid. Just to name a few. Plus you were running an illegal operation. Ever get paid in cash? And you posted on a public forum that you never paid taxes. Taxes alone will be more than $50,000 not to mention all the fines and interest...I am always thankful of the time I spent at the IRS and as an Auditor. As a note, and this is just a shot in the dark, I am guessing you did not keep adequate records, as required by IRS CODE, and that in itself is not a good thing. Since you don't have enough records to prove LESS income, you will be subject to estimates established by the IRS related to your business. Good thing the IRS always takes the route of showing sympathy to the tax evader.

My advice. Get a lawyer and a CPA. Count your blessing you have not be caught,Yet, Delong Landscaping of Birmingham,MI. The lefty pitcher with a nice ride to college.

All that aside. I would def get yourself legal and organized. That is the most important thing right now. Get insurance too. You already have customers and make money so you should have some saved to get legit. Keep learning and growing.

[BearWise Landscapers]

I am prob not going to be insured and i haven't paid taxes but the 2010 season will be the first season i will be a legal business with help from my dad.

Also, what set off getting my business insurance, is my AAA agent doesn't cover plows on my truck and i wanted to get a plow this winter, but instead opted to get a 45" cub cadet 420 cc snow blower. I wish i could of got-ton a snow blower but i don't want to hit something and have them sue** me for everything my parents own. My dad has been struggling at work to pay the bills and such and i don't want to see him any more stressed than he already is. Business insurance to go with a private insurance agent for a 17 year old would have been 750 per month, plus 1000 deductible if i damaged anything, and i thought i wasnt worth it, i only had my church parking lot to plow and around 15 residential.

hey jason im brandon i live in lansing mi i have a lawn and landscape company and im just starting. i have to say if you want comm. accounts you have to be insured some people want 2 mill coverge.

hey buddy... I'm just now 18 and have a 2mil liability policy and signed 5 commercial properties and had 2 already so 7 commercial total.

When I was 17 and tried to get insurance... I called Nationwide and they sent me to this other guy. 1 mil liability policy for me at 17 was only $485 + tax... Only deal was he wanted it in full. No payments etc. so only $485 + tax and I was fully insured.

Jason,

I can't speak about the rest of your issues, but for your business setup and insurance, I would recommend the following:

1. If you plan on being in the business for a while, get it incorporated or set up an LLC. You may have to put one of your parents as the primary officer since you are under 18, but you may not.

2. Once your business entity is established, then purchase general liability and commercial auto insurance. It will be cheaper to leave off snow plowing for the first few years, so unless that aspect of your business is currently generating a lot of revenues, then I would stop doing it to focus on lawn care. Your general liability policy should only run around 500 dollars for the year and your commercial auto will vary depending on a lot of factors, but I would estimate it to be around 1500 to 2000 in premium.

Feel free to ask me any specific questions you may have. i recommend that you call an independent insurance agent in your area that has some expertise with lawn care businesses and has access to multiple insruance companies.

[DLONGLANDSCAPING]

you guys just scared me **** less, i am going to make my business legal in the next week instead of waitng two months. As of the 6 years in the business, my first 2 years, i only have 2 customers, and my 4th year i had 10 and then 5th 10 ,a and 6th i had around 25.

[Stevegotcrabgrass]

you guys just scared me **** less, i am going to make my business legal in the next week instead of waitng two months. As of the 6 years in the business, my first 2 years, i only have 2 customers, and my 4th year i had 10 and then 5th 10 ,a and 6th i had around 25.

That was the point. They don't care what you say. They will assume that you have made more money rather than less.

Take a job big or small, do it right or not at all.

If you want to be a business, BE A BUSINESS. Not a dude with a mower.

Keep adequate records as well. It may just save everything you have worked for.

[DLONGLANDSCAPING]

i have flawless records for the last 3 years. Every single invoice i have sent out, i have a binder of the exact same invoice that the client got, and in the binder i have each client on its own tab. The last two years is when i have grown to take checks and not all cash, but around half of my clients give me cash as i give them the invoice right there on the spot . The other half gives me checks. I need some advice, my whole point of this forum was to get help to see what i should do, not get reprimanded and called stupid. THATS WHY I SAID I AM ONLY 17, i am brand new to this business as a whole and i need HELP.

My goals for the next coupld weeks before the spring season starts is to get my taxes in order, insurance, with a state documented LLC, and before octbober to get a commercial auto insurance(which i hate to think about being so damn expensive) for snow plowing.

Again, I NEED HELP, I WANT TO DO IT RIGHT AND I WONT DO IT IF ITS NOT GOING TO BE LEGAL. i WAS a guy with a mower for the past 6 years and this is the year i want to get legal and pay taxes like the whole country. I dont want to hear how stupid i am becuase i am on this site asking for help, im not continuing to do stuff "illegal". My whole point of this forum was help becoming a legal business.

I NEED HELP NOT CRITISIZM

[DLONGLANDSCAPING]

I have flawless records for the last 3 years including every bill i have sent out and ever single recipt i have bought a piece of equipment for. The whol point of this forum was to learn and become smart about my business. I wouldnt be here if i didnt want to become a legal business.

My plan for the next few weeks before spring is:
1)get license as an LLC
2)Get insured and get covered for 2 million
3)Pay Taxes i guess for the lsat 3 years i have been really serious and i will apy taxes on the checks i got, no on the cash i recieved.


I have another question. Am i supposed to pay taxes on things that i bought through craigslist then sold for more? i.e. I bought a 48" exmark metro for 1500 from cragstlist, turned around and sold it for 2500 with a sulky and bagger. I made 400 dollars off of it. Do i have to pay taxes on that?

[Stevegotcrabgrass]

I have flawless records for the last 3 years including every bill i have sent out and ever single recipt i have bought a piece of equipment for. The whol point of this forum was to learn and become smart about my business. I wouldnt be here if i didnt want to become a legal business.

My plan for the next few weeks before spring is:
1)get license as an LLC
2)Get insured and get covered for 2 million
3)Pay Taxes i guess for the lsat 3 years i have been really serious and i will apy taxes on the checks i got, no on the cash i recieved.


I have another question. Am i supposed to pay taxes on things that i bought through craigslist then sold for more? i.e. I bought a 48" exmark metro for 1500 from cragstlist, turned around and sold it for 2500 with a sulky and bagger. I made 400 dollars off of it. Do i have to pay taxes on that?

In short yea. That is considered a capital gain since you are not in the business of selling equipment. You acted stupid in the past, you may not BE stupid. Just from now on do it right. That is great advice. Keep motivated and you will do fine.
On the tax issue, you can file returns for the years passed. You really need an accountant because I am guessing your Parents are still claiming you as a dependent. That brings up more issues.

[darryl gesner]

Good to see you're going to get legitimate, but cash is taxable too. Filing a false tax return is not a good idea. I hope you have records for your expenses too, because you can deduct those. You might not have to pay anything after all the calculations are done.

Quickbooks is nice once you get it set up properly, but it's kind of annoying that they only support certain features for a year or 2, forcing you to upgrade to the latest version if you want to use them. You can set up for accepting credit cards pretty easily through Intuit too (the makers of quickbooks). Quickbooks also makes estimates a breeze since you can enter all your rates and material pricing into it too. I like the Pro version because it has all sorts of reports already set up so you can get a better picture of how your busniness is doing, profit/loss statments, accounts receivable, percent of sales from different types of work etc. All with just a couple of mouse clicks.

[DLONGLANDSCAPING]

Wow i need to talk to my uncle(the accountant and smart one in the family) about taxes, they just did my dads taxes and i help (sorta) i typed everything in on turbo tax. I just need help doing this because i dont know who to call or what to do to keep going. For the expenses, i have over 20,000 dollars worth of investments to my business and i saved very little my first years in business because i loved buying new shiny powerful equipment.

I just purchase quickbooks at target and it came iwth the whole setup process. It was very helpful. We actually just got dumped on in snow, so i desided to get things running early and set it up the night before the snow comes(last night before i went out to plow at 4 a.m with my 45" cub cadet snow thrower-my new toy) and it worked like a charm, i set up a printer and my lab top in my car and printed the bills out as i went so i dont have to go all over billing after i was done today. the 11inch snow fall got me 6 new snow customers and i think 3 more referals that said they would call for a snow plowing and maybe even a weekly lawn contract for the spring. So all in all the quickbooks make my records very professional and i cant wait to use it for mowing.

Again, thanks for all of your guys help. it really makes me nervous about getting into the business legitamately but i want to pursue landscaping and lawn mowing for at leased the next 20 years, and get a 4 year degree also. Landscaping and Business major.

Taxes, when do you pay them? thats prob a stupid questions but how do you know when to file your taxes?

[Green Dude]

Hey jdog this is jamie from GREEN DUDE LAWN CARE starting out can be a struggle but remember always look for a bargain but dont give up too much quality. www,vistaprint.com is awesome for flyers. magnets, biz cards, banners etc. They have good stuff that u can create at a good price. Do home shows in your area. Also door to door flyer hanging is great for business. But check your local laws and watch out for associations and private communities. Never put stuff in mailboxes either. Get some school buddies together and hit the streets hard. Build a strret team that will respect your flyers and hang them properly. Pay your buddies a little and take them out. They will love that and i am sure some will want to work for you when needed after that. Well good luck and get it done. The Green Dude

[cmlandscapeconstruction]

it is truly awesome to see young people even those off to a bad start doing the right thing! get legal,protect yourself and get in there and earn a living. P.s. after sorting through th bullsh@t around here your left with some people who actually will help you. listen to former irs agents!