Does Compost Tea Really Work?

[ecoguy]

Such was the subject of Paul Tukey's blog yesterday.

http://www.safelawns.org/blog/index.php/2010/02/compost-tea-does-it-work-or-not/

What side of the fence are you on? Please share your experience, good and bad.

[JDUtah]

I have not gone as far as to get a microscope. But I brewed my own through the summer last year with no results compared to the control plot. The year before I tried Bills' 123 ICT with the same.

I am not a believer in CT, but you knew that.

[Smallaxe]

I have not gone as far as to get a microscope. But I brewed my own through the summer last year with no results compared to the control plot. The year before I tried Bills' 123 ICT with the same.

I am not a believer in CT, but you knew that.

Did you do a test plot using regular compost?

[JDUtah]

Oh yes. And that is why regular compost is in my program. :)

[NattyLawn]

I have not gone as far as to get a microscope. But I brewed my own through the summer last year with no results compared to the control plot. The year before I tried Bills' 123 ICT with the same.

I am not a believer in CT, but you knew that.

And that was with your homemade brewer right? If so I can see why (should have bookmarked that thread). So you dont' have a scope. Do you have a DO meter? Was your compost tested? Brewing time? Foods? Application rate? Dilution ratio? Were any other materials added with the tea (humates, kelp, fish hydrolysate). Did you apply a fertilizer with the tea and view the results.

And you already have sandy soil, so I would guess you would want the compost anyway. Is CT the best possible solution for your soils? That might be the better question. So instead of saying CT doesn't work, maybe you should just say it doesn't work for you.

Do I think CT works? Yes. But it's more than dumping compost in a bucket and adding water and air. You have to have a good brewer, good compost, a DO meter and microscope are preferred. In the blog, hopefully the Seattle Zoo is just not spraying tea as a fungicide (and I hope they're working with KIS). Are they still spraying foliars? What's they're watering schedule like? Too many variables that we don't know about that can lead to failure and they will say CT doesn't work as well.

And I will also note that while I believe CT works it's not a silver bullet and only another tool in the toolbox.

[Smallaxe]

Oh yes. And that is why regular compost is in my program. :)

What!?!?
No microscope?... No OMRI approval?... No Gov't Grant?... Journal entries with Peer review???

Are you saying that you relied on your own proffessional judagement, of , good, better, best, to make a Decision?!?!
You are a Radical...
... Dude... :)

[NattyLawn]

What!?!?
No microscope?... No OMRI approval?... No Gov't Grant?... Journal entries with Peer review???

Are you saying that you relied on your own proffessional judagement, of , good, better, best, to make a Decision?!?!
You are a Radical...
... Dude... :)

Hey Axe. How much tea have you brewed? No need to answer because we already know it's zero. There are quite a few variables to making good tea. When people like JD, Cornell U. and others make statements without disclosing certain information should that professional judgement be taken as fact? I know you like "discussion" rather than doing things correctly, but one guy in Utah using a cheesy brewer with air stones is why there should be standards.

[Barefoot James]

Yeah Natty,

I remember that sprayer JD posted last year we all thought it was a joke and then found out he was serious. tree about lost it:laugh: That was one of the funniest things I had ever seen. So JD what does the brewer look like? :laugh:

How many apps of ICT did you use? Any soil tests before and after? Funny that I have over 100 compost tea client and started with about 20 - got test results and testimonials that prove that yes it works - but like Natty says only another tool in the tool box.

[JDUtah]

Barefoot, If you didn't notice... Tree USED my idea to make a brewer/sprayer of her own. Of course you would not be sharp enough to catch the value of my concept like Tree did.

BTW, I nerfed that brewer per Tree's recomendations. Brewed and tested a plot with it.

Also, A local Nursery DOES do the "professional", DO tested, visually tested brew, and I tested a plot with thier stuff.

Third... Bill's 123 ICT on a seperate plot.

Fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh... various meals/compost on other plots.

Compost was my winner. Sorry guys. I just don't believe in CT... regardless of how "correct" it is.

BTW, you got that wrong... most Utah soils are loamy clay, not sand.

Hey you two, I have a question for you... would you apply the digestate from a Methane Digester like Tim suggested, to plants.. like grass?

I know Small Axe... I'm just so out there... thinking on my own...

[Smallaxe]

Hey Axe. How much tea have you brewed? No need to answer because we already know it's zero. There are quite a few variables to making good tea. When people like JD, Cornell U. and others make statements without disclosing certain information should that professional judgement be taken as fact? I know you like "discussion" rather than doing things correctly, but one guy in Utah using a cheesy brewer with air stones is why there should be standards.

He tried it, didn't like it, uses real compost instead, he likes it , get over it.

You use it, you like it, continue to reapply it, and reapply it and reapply it, good for you.

I use real compost... is that ok for you? R U better than me, because I use real compost? and don't find it necessary to use Tea?

The main reason I never got that excited about Tea was because, when I asked key questions I could never get a straight answer. I do have a brewer and a "professional Mix" BTW.

[Kiril]

Are you saying that you relied on your own proffessional judagement, of , good, better, best, to make a Decision?!?!

I know Small Axe... I'm just so out there... thinking on my own...


If the two of you can't see the value of learning from those who have come before you, and clearly know more than you, that is your loss.

Why should you use the round wheel when the square one works (kinda)?

CT does have it's uses. I do question the value of the "rinse and repeat" approach in a landscape program, however I am not going to categorically dismiss it's use either. Use the appropriate tool for the job. Want to build SOM .... then compost is your best bet.

[ecoguy]

Most bulk compost that is sold is created by residential grasses/plants that have previously been treated by pesticide. Most manure comes from animals fed GMO foods or chemically treated foods. Often these are what makes up the compost we use in our organic programs. The hyprocrisy is woven right in. Beyond making the compost ourself insuring all the matter is chemical free, what are we left to do?

[NattyLawn]

He tried it, didn't like it, uses real compost instead, he likes it , get over it.

You use it, you like it, continue to reapply it, and reapply it and reapply it, good for you.

I use real compost... is that ok for you? R U better than me, because I use real compost? and don't find it necessary to use Tea?

The main reason I never got that excited about Tea was because, when I asked key questions I could never get a straight answer. I do have a brewer and a "professional Mix" BTW.

FYI, I only apply ACT twice a year, with a much heavier application in the fall.

So, you asked the questions about tea, and they were "discussed" on here. You didn't find those answers on here, or by using your professional judgement?

[JDUtah]

Most bulk compost that is sold is created by residential grasses/plants that have previously been treated by pesticide. Most manure comes from animals fed GMO foods or chemically treated foods. Often these are what makes up the compost we use in our organic programs. The hyprocrisy is woven right in. Beyond making the compost ourself insuring all the matter is chemical free, what are we left to do?


Use a waste stream to fertilize lawns. Let time evolve pesticides into products with less residual. For instance there is a relatively new slective herbicide that kills bentgrass, crabgrass, and a multitude of broadleaf weeds that has a half life of 7 days. Want to know why it has a half life that short? Microbial degredation.

Which takes me to another point... most (not all) pesticides used on turf are food for various microbes. If your bulk compost innoculant contains the microbes that eat the pesticides then you are helping the process along when you compost the contaminated grass clippings. All the better... PLUS as you apply this compost you will be innuculating the soils you aplpy it to with the pesticide digesting microbes... so you are even doing good to break down pesticides out in the field too!

What is your goal... to live in a bubble, or to do a small part to make the world a healthier place?

Bubble = complete control

World a healthier place = help more than just the people in the bubble

Also, when it comes down to it, you can't live in a bubble. The biodome expiriment proved that.

[JDUtah]

FYI, I only apply ACT twice a year, with a much heavier application in the fall.

So, you asked the questions about tea, and they were "discussed" on here. You didn't find those answers on here, or by using your professional judgement?

Or maybe it was because you are usually too busy criticizing that you don't post stuff relevant to the conversation. You still haven't really answered eco's question (ie... the whole point of the thread?).

So are you going to contribute or not?

State your opinion/experience with CT and then get on with life.

Maybe Small would glean something from it that would motivate him to try CT again...

You surely aren't promoting compost tea the way you have represented yourself in this thread so far...

[ecoguy]

JD. Interesting logic with the pesticides. There may be some truth to that logic but I can't help but think people not as astute as you would gladly use that logic to justify continued abuse in their bubble. Btw - the bubble analogy was lost on me - especially if your insinuating I'm trapped in bubble thinking because I want to use uncontaminated compost.

I might be wrong but I think your organic at heart but you justify chemicals because you find it easier to control nature then work with it. I don't mean to judge here just observation.

[NattyLawn]

Or maybe it was because you are usually too busy criticizing that you don't post stuff relevant to the conversation. You still haven't really answered eco's question (ie... the whole point of the thread?).

So are you going to contribute or not?

State your opinion/experience with CT and then get on with life.

Maybe Small would glean something from it that would motivate him to try CT again...

You surely aren't promoting compost tea the way you have represented yourself in this thread so far...

Not taking the bait sir. I contributed to the thread and it's you who has done nothing to answer the questions posted to you.

[JDUtah]

JD. Interesting logic with the pesticides. There may be some truth to that logic but I can't help but think people not as astute as you would gladly use that logic to justify continued abuse in their bubble. Btw - the bubble analogy was lost on me - especially if your insinuating I'm trapped in bubble thinking because I want to use uncontaminated compost.

I might be wrong but I think your organic at heart but you justify chemicals because you find it easier to control nature then work with it. I don't mean to judge here just observation.

I avoid people who think or claim that they can live without the influence of modern technology. The bubble just doesn't exist. Modified genetic plants are out there and there is no way to control them. We breath air that is polluted by modern fuels. We eat crops that are irrigated by water that scrubbed modern pollutants out of the air. Pesticides are all around us. ANY company with a decent pest control program will have pesticides inside the building etc. Have you shopped at Walmart lately? What about going into a gas station? Or maybe a local supermarket? You just can't get away from modern technology. Sorry.

Take that a step farther... if you admit that, what then do you decide to do? You do the best you can with what you have. I am not taking the easy way out... I am just doing what I feel will do the most good. I use a compost who's parent materials might have been maintained synthetically... and I start using that matter organically. Seems like a good thing to me. Heck, I'm even applying microbes that may have more of a health need than 'completely natural' CT. (Which doesn't exist)


I don't justify chemicals btw... but I do see them appropriate in certain situations... I feel they have their place, but are to be used rarely. (tell me what natural/organic fertilizer you would use to increase N without increasing P or K?)

Hmmm... this will get some people fired up but it is the blunt truth... I accept both synthetic and natural because I am not a hypocrite. If you are truly a naturalist like you say... get off your computer and sell it. Get rid of your car and build a completely wooden buggy. Buy horses and only use leather straps, saddles, etc. Live without electricity (the creation of electricity, the transfer of it, and the use of it relies on synthetics). Go throw out your eating utensils and make bowls out of stone, forks out of wood, and cook on a wood or coal fire. Stop using medicine. No phone calls. Oh and if you are a business... stop using synthetic dependent items such as stamps, shovels, advertising, money (both digital and cash), trucks, wheel barrows with metal or plastic axles/bearings/buckets, blowers, sprayers, poly tanks to make your CT in, microscopes, DO meters, soil tests...

Point is... I choose to not lie to myself, or others. There is a place in this world for organic, natural, and synthetic. Yes even in lawn care there is a place for each. If you are ever tempted to claim otherwise simply review the preceding paragraph.

But anyways if you want, you can debate about the moral definition of Organic with others. I know the morals in my mind are honest.

[JDUtah]

Not taking the bait sir. I contributed to the thread and it's you who has done nothing to answer the questions posted to you.

A simple review of page 1 will prove this claim a lie.

[ecoguy]

I avoid people who think or claim that they can live without the influence of modern technology. The bubble just doesn't exist. Modified genetic plants are out there and there is no way to control them. We breath air that is polluted by modern fuels. We eat crops that are irrigated by water that scrubbed modern pollutants out of the air. Pesticides are all around us. ANY company with a decent pest control program will have pesticides inside the building etc. Have you shopped at Walmart lately? What about going into a gas station? Or maybe a local supermarket? You just can't get away from modern technology. Sorry.

Take that a step farther... if you admit that, what then do you decide to do? You do the best you can with what you have. I am not taking the easy way out... I am just doing what I feel will do the most good. I use a compost who's parent materials might have been maintained synthetically... and I start using that matter organically. Seems like a good thing to me. Heck, I'm even applying microbes that may have more of a health need than 'completely natural' CT. (Which doesn't exist)


I don't justify chemicals btw... but I do see them appropriate in certain situations... I feel they have their place, but are to be used rarely. (tell me what natural/organic fertilizer you would use to increase N without increasing P or K?)

Hmmm... this will get some people fired up but it is the blunt truth... I accept both synthetic and natural because I am not a hypocrite. If you are truly a naturalist like you say... get off your computer and sell it. Get rid of your car and build a completely wooden buggy. Buy horses and only use leather straps, saddles, etc. Live without electricity (the creation of electricity, the transfer of it, and the use of it relies on synthetics). Go throw out your eating utensils and make bowls out of stone, forks out of wood, and cook on a wood or coal fire. Stop using medicine. No phone calls. Oh and if you are a business... stop using synthetic dependent items such as stamps, shovels, advertising, money (both digital and cash), trucks, wheel barrows with metal or plastic axles/bearings/buckets, blowers, sprayers, poly tanks to make your CT in, microscopes, DO meters, soil tests...

Point is... I choose to not lie to myself, or others. There is a place in this world for organic, natural, and synthetic. Yes even in lawn care there is a place for each. If you are ever tempted to claim otherwise simply review the preceding paragraph.

But anyways if you want, you can debate about the moral definition of Organic with others. I know the morals in my mind are honest.

First off, besides my silly screen name, I've never claimed to be a purely organic/natural/eco guy. You are correct, we live in 2010, a capitalist society hell bent on maximizing profits by using any and all methods that "work". Insert your poison here. For us to escape this, we'd have to move, become rich so we can afford to live naturally here, or re-create our own Walden. Because I (and I'm guessing you) are unable to do any of these things the fourth option is to live and work as friendly as we can with what we can. The challenge is separating what is moral and what is convenient.

[OrganicsMaine]

I have chosen to go organic for a few reasons. First, I achieve great results in doing so. Second, I feel good about myself for doing this:). Third, I believe that economically, this will ultimately position my business ahead of many others....a very capitalistic maneuver if I do say so myself:weightlifter:, and fourth, there is an existing market already in place.

Hopefully, this current regime will not run this country into the ground, and the economy will rebound so that more people will pay for the service. I agree with JD that there is a place for synthetics in many different applications. However, in turf, I only use them when the only other option is completely re-do the lawn. Which, will cause air pollution due to the equipment necessary to do this, not to mention the extra fuel burned picking up materials and hauling everything to the job site.

I feel that it is our job to educate our customers on the obvious and substantial benefits of having their properties maintained with as few synthetics as possible. The better we are at that, the more work we will all have.

[Kiril]

JD, wasn't your own thread good enough for you? But then, given JD isn't a "hypocrite" ....

As far as I am concerned though... there are a few people who, for whatever reason, must prove to themselves that the things they believe are the only way things are to be believed. And they will stop at NOTHING to prove themselves right.

What is this now .... 3 threads in the past 2 weeks you have brought your BS up again.

Really JD .... talk about hypocrisy. You continue to argue for something that is not essential for our continued existence, yet you can find a way to justify your 4-5 trip program even when you know damn well you could do the same in 1-2 (see last discussion on this issue).

You want to make an argument for Ag .... great, that IS essential .... however your own "bubble of logic" will blow apart once you attempt to use it on that issue.

Oh and FYI, one can advocate and use sustainable practices without having to revert to living in caves and hunting/gathering.



Here is a little common sense for you to with regard to landscapes.



How do you conserver water? ....... DON'T USE IT!

How do you avoid pollution, environmental damage, etc.... from ferts & pesticides? ....... DON'T USE THEM!

How do you achieve the above two? ..... DON'T DESIGN/PLANT LANDSCAPES THAT NEED THEM!


Thus ends JD's lecture in common sense .

[ICT Bill]

You guys make this way too complicated

You never asked the question???? why did compost work better for JD than compost teas short term?

because the organic matter in his soils were lacking to say the least, by applying compost his results were much better than the others

We have had the same results on the other extreme, SOM very high and CT outshines compost

I would rather go to the store and buy beer rather than making it, I know what I'm buying

On another note: there have been several pesticides banned in other countries because they DO NOT get eaten up when composted and continue in the stream when applied to farm land. result organic farms that have to be recertified for 3 years because pesticides have been applied

Compost is almost becoming a bad word in organic farming, it is a shame

[dtally]

I don't justify chemicals btw... but I do see them appropriate in certain situations... I feel they have their place, but are to be used rarely. (tell me what natural/organic fertilizer you would use to increase N without increasing P or K?).

I'll take the bait. "Compost Tea" Plant Growth Promoting Rhizobacteria (PGPR)

Here is a post by ICT Bill that may shed some light on this tiopic:

Plant Growth Promoting Rhizobacteria (PGPR), its Effect on Turfgrass

A study from 2006, of interest. This is not our product but one very similiar, they do not use mycorrhizae in their mix and I am not sure they are still around. We are expecting the same type result from our plots with the University of Rhode Island. Anecdotally our plots are doing very well, we have to wait for the statistics.

The product PGPR (Plant Growth Promoting Rhizobacteria) was compared with a synthetic and an organic fertilizer for its effect on turfgrass quality, growth response, and nutrient uptake. The trial was conducted on a USGA specification sand based putting green located at Olds College, Olds,
Alberta.

The PGPR product produced better turfgrass quality than the untreated control on seven of the eight rating dates, although it was only statistically different on the final rating date (table 1). Generally, the PGPR was equal to the fertilized treatments in spite of the fact that there was no nutrient value to the product.

The plots treated with PGPR had a better growth response, as measured by clipping yields, than the untreated control on each rating date and was significantly better on three rating dates (table 2). The PGPR produced clipping yields that were statistically similar to three of the four fertility treatments, Milorganite at 0.6 and 1.0 kg N/100m2 and the Contec at 0.6 kg n/100m2.

When compared with the untreated control plant nutrient values were significantly higher for nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, copper and magnesium when the PGPR product was applied (table 3 and 4).
Calcium was considerably higher for the PGPR treatment, but it was not statistically different. The plant nutrient value for potassium in the PGPR treatment was equal to the high rate of Contec which had 0.5 kg K/100m2 added to the plots. These results would indicate that the PGPR promoted nutrient availability and uptake.

Full paper is here http://ptrc.oldscollege.ca/pdf/PlantGrowthRhizo.pdf

[Tim Wilson]

I avoid people who think or claim that they can live without the influence of modern technology.

This is a paradox because microbial based horticulture is cutting edge technology and the most brilliant biologists worldwide are studying the microbial nutrient cycle. There is nothing about 'nature farming' (natural growing) which mandates the use of horse & buggy and not using computers. If anything this trends towards discovery of less polluting cheaper fuels, alternative sources of energy, smaller chips, energy storage systems, alternative materials for creation of plastic type substances, etc. It is actually chemical fertilizers, pesticides and typical fuels which are old fashioned. The fight against this transformation is somewhat comparable to the church's fight against science through the ages. The world really was round....well kinda.

Sorry for going off topic. I've already posted previously my experiences with CT. It works for what it's used for.

[JDUtah]

.

This is a paradox because microbial based horticulture is cutting edge technology and the most brilliant biologists worldwide are studying the microbial nutrient cycle. There is nothing about 'nature farming' (natural growing) which mandates the use of horse & buggy and not using computers. If anything this trends towards discovery of less polluting cheaper fuels, alternative sources of energy, smaller chips, energy storage systems, alternative materials for creation of plastic type substances, etc. It is actually chemical fertilizers, pesticides and typical fuels which are old fashioned. The fight against this transformation is somewhat comparable to the church's fight against science through the ages. The world really was round....well kinda.

Sorry for going off topic. I've already posted previously my experiences with CT. It works for what it's used for.

context friend read context

[Barefoot James]

Yeah I guess CT doesn't work cause JD and Axe say so.... oh well guess I'll go out of business this year. let Obama pay my bills cause JD and ax say so. Didn't work for them - can't be working for me - oh well - that's how it goes
Eeyore.

Seriously dudes you are argueing and don't use the stuff - 4 test plots big deal. ICT you have how many GOLF COURSES now using your brew???
Check out some of the big boys in NJ, Conn, NY, MA, and PA. Go to their sites look at their trucks and brewers and clients. They have millions of dollars in equipment, payrolls and education on CT. ICT is allready doing close to 10 million a year himself. Why? It works, results happen. This is a stupid thread Bill post some links to those big guys websites.

Here are a couple -
http://www.rossfarm.com/index.html
http://www.groundscapesexpress.com/
http://www.pogoorganics.com/

JD what are you up to in gross sales for 2009 15K, 20K and you post your mis info here because..... and of that 15K you do total, about what 5K is spreading compost??? yeah I really care about your thoughts. If I was not so bored out of my mind right now (way too much frozen snow) I would be out making some money - but cause CT doesn't work I can afford to sit here by the fire getting ready for the next UL & UK basketball game and the farm show going on here right now. If you can't offer solutions that actually help folks - to make money, then you too are an Eeyore.
-I'm out!

[JDUtah]

"Yeah I guess bridge doesn't work and kills the planet cause Barefoot and Kiril say so.... oh well guess I'll go out of business this year. let Obama pay my bills cause Barefoot say so. Didn't work for them - can't be working for me - oh well - that's how it goes"

[Barefoot James]

Does Compost Tea really work? - This is the topic JD!Such was the subject of Paul Tukey's blog yesterday.

http://www.safelawns.org/blog/index.php/2010/02/compost-tea-does-it-work-or-not/

What side of the fence are you on? Please share your experience, good and bad.
This is the topic - JD

I have not gone as far as to get a microscope. But I brewed my own through the summer last year with no results compared to the control plot. The year before I tried Bills' 123 ICT with the same.

I am not a believer in CT, but you knew that.
This was your typical JD, bummer poor me answer. At least you are on topic here.

"Yeah I guess bridge doesn't work and kills the planet cause Barefoot and Kiril say so.... oh well guess I'll go out of business this year. let Obama pay my bills cause Barefoot say so. Didn't work for them - can't be working for me - oh well - that's how it goes"
Now your talking about bridge stuff - Dude stay on topic this is about compost tea and does it work? No wonder you suffer in this business so much, you have to stay focused dude.

[JDUtah]

No wonder you suffer in this business so much, you have to stay focused dude.

Well aren't you an assuming ignorant.

On topic... the subject of your posts is to single me and axe out, not talk about how well your CT program works. I mentioned CT didn't work for me in my area. You still have not mentioned how well it works for you. I was the one on topic.

Oh but it looks like I will add you to the ever growing ignore list of naturalist hypocrites. Say all the bad you want about me (like I am sure Kiril is doing) I will not see it. I will not care. I know my program helps the earth and makes me money.

BTW, you might want to start cleaning out the Turbo Turf when you borrow it from your friends.

Also, I don't see you correcting your friends when they post a huge post about sustainable farming in a thread not related to it at all. How convenient to have double standards.

Bottom line is, you could care less if CT works for me or not. You're just pissed that I don't believe that synthetics kill complete populations of soil microbes and/or the earth. Talking about staying on topic. Don't you think you should address the real beef between us?

[OrganicsMaine]

OK JD and Barefoot, we know you two obviously don't care too much for each other, but can the stupid bickering stop?? I know it is mid winter, and we are all getting a bit cranky. You both have a lot to offer here as I have seen helpful and informative posts many times, so cut it out and lets get back to helping each other and everyone else out!*trucewhiteflag*

In fact, I am going to start a new thread here....one for the non scientific brains here....look for it!

[JDUtah]

On who is on subject....

My first post...

I have not gone as far as to get a microscope. But I brewed my own through the summer last year with no results compared to the control plot. The year before I tried Bills' 123 ICT with the same.

I am not a believer in CT, but you knew that.

Barefoot's first post...

Yeah Natty,

I remember that sprayer JD posted last year we all thought it was a joke and then found out he was serious. tree about lost it:laugh: That was one of the funniest things I had ever seen. So JD what does the brewer look like? :laugh:

How many apps of ICT did you use? Any soil tests before and after? Funny that I have over 100 compost tea client and started with about 20 - got test results and testimonials that prove that yes it works - but like Natty says only another tool in the tool box.

Hey I think you have a little egg on your face.

My 'unit' is bigger than yours. :laugh:

[JDUtah]

OK JD and Barefoot, we know you two obviously don't care too much for each other, but can the stupid bickering stop?? I know it is mid winter, and we are all getting a bit cranky. You both have a lot to offer here as I have seen helpful and informative posts many times, so cut it out and lets get back to helping each other and everyone else out!*trucewhiteflag*

In fact, I am going to start a new thread here....one for the non scientific brains here....look for it!

Awe but dad... pissing matches are so much fun! :laugh:

JK. Sorry. I will ignore him now and thus end the stupid finger pointing.

[OrganicsMaine]

Awe but dad... pissing matches are so much fun! :laugh:

JK. Sorry. I will ignore him now and thus end the stupid finger pointing.

Funny you said that....I just walked back in from telling my 12, 11, and 8 yo's that I am sick of being the referee here! So the same goes for you guys!LOL:laugh:

[JDUtah]

Lol, sorry again. It is hard not to get into a fight when your first post is a direct honest answer to the opening question and some other guys first post is an insult directed specifically at you.

I will start a thread about the real fight that goes on in this forum.

[Barefoot James]

BTW, you might want to start cleaning out the Turbo Turf when you borrow it from your friends.


huh? I own a TT HS-300-EH. What does that even mean? :confused:

[DUSTYCEDAR]

HI YALL
BEEN STUCK IN A LOADER MOVING MANY FEET OF SNOW FOR A WEEK
NOW COME HOME TO SEE THIS CRAP

I DONT CARE WHAT SIDE YOUR ON AND HOW BIG YOUR SO CALLED UNITS R

PLEASE JUST POST WHAT DID OR DID NOT WORK 4 YA AND WHY???

BACK TO MOVING SNOW:weightlifter:

[FOL]

Wow, this is why I keep my comments to myself. You guys sound like a bunch of girlyman:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: