Kubota ZD28F

[Pelican]

I recently purchased a Kubota ZD28F with a 60" cutting deck. I had been following a few threads on the ZD21F but it seems Kubotas aren't in good favor around here. When I compared the features of the Kubota to Skag and Exmark, it seemed like Kubota was a lot more machine for the money. For those of you who favor other brands, only Skag , Bobcat, Kubota, John Deere and Exmark are handled locally here, which influenced my decision.

My Kubota replaced a Skag SSZ 60/22 that gave me troubles from the day I bought it. It gave me a poor quality of cut and was plagued with little nuicence breakdowns. When I shopped, I was looking for a diesel powered Z rider and looked at Skag's and Exmark's offerings.

The Skag mower cost $15,000, rode rough, was noisy and didn't cut much better than the machine I was replacing. I wasn't crazy about the fact that the engine was turbocharged either. I couldn't see my men allowing the turbo a proper cool down after each use.

The Exmark I was looking at cost about $13,500, but unfortunately I was never able to demo it. I stopped twice at the dealer's and was promised a call to set up a demo, but there was no follow up on the dealer's part. I decided I wasn't interested in this type of service and moved on.

My Kubota dealer also carries Skag and I had used them as an alternate when my own dealer was out of stock on parts, which occurred far more often than I felt should have. Out of stock on belts, blades? Very annoying, and the alternate dealer always came through for me.

The Kubota ZD28F is feature packed, with a built in jack to lift the machine for blade changes. It also has hydraulic lift for the mower deck and a hydraulic PTO clutch, which I believe will prove more reliable than an electric clutch. The deck is also shaft driven to the center spindle which supplies power to the outer spindles via belts, another reliable set up. The radiator has a protective filter screen that is easily removed to clean as does the air filter. The grease points are easily accessable and oil changes should be fairly easy as well. I had read of concerns about the deck's strength, but it is constructed of 7 gauge steel as are most other brands.

The mower cuts well and rides better than any other mower I've used. It's also much quieter than other machines I've used, even with the blades on. When working side by side with my Skag SWZ52/20, you hear the Skag, not the Kubota. It doesn't cut very well at top speed, which is fast enough to blow your hair back, and is sometimes frightening in small yards.

Another issue I had read about was quality of cut and striping capabilities. If run at about 1/2 speed, it cuts very well, and does a good job of blowing clippings. When grass clippings are laying, I raise the deck 1/2" and cut again and the clippings are dispersed well. I feel the striping is comparable to that of my Skags and took this photo to demonstrate.

Sorry for the legth of this post, but I thought some might be interested in the info. I'll keep you posted on and problems or longevity of the machine as time goes on.

[Pelican]

Forgot to list the negatives:

This machine is twice as heavy as the one it replaced and I had to re-arrange my trailer to get the proper tongue weight. It also skuffs up the turf very easily if you aren't careful, again I believe due to the weight. I'd like a tachometer on the console just to keep track of things, too. This machine came with a ROPS that was cumbersome and prevented me from mowing under trees so I removed it, which was easily done.

[Mowingman]

Good report. Let us know how it's doing after a few hundred hours. You just can't beat the Kubota engines if you want a diesel. I have two Grasshopper midmounts with Kubota diesels. One has the 21hp and one has the 28hp. You are right about how quiet they are. I had an older Grasshopper with 3000hrs on the Kubota engine and it was still running strong when I sold it. While I prefer the Grasshoppers, the Kubota machines do look pretty tough. The diesels used by Exmark, Dixie Chopper and others are really loud compared to the Kubotas.:)

[TLS]

I thought that the Kubota decks were 9 gauge not 7? No biggie. Have fun with the new mower!!!

[Pelican]

28 hp 3 cylinder diesel

[Pelican]

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[Pelican]

2

[Walser's Lawn Care]

How much was the Kubota? Just curious.

[Pelican]

I guess I forgot that part in my original post, mine ran me $ 10,800. I thought this was a bargain compared to the other machines I was looking at, we'll have to see how the Kubota holds up. Dealer support played a big part in my decision, and I got a surprise in the mail yesterday, a card signed personally by the dealer owner thanking me for my purchase. I never had this happen before.

[FrankenScagMachines]

looks good, and a good price for the machine too. But what I don't understand is why it doesnt' cut good at top speed? I realize that most Z's aren't meant to cut quite at top speed, but most do have a good cut at top speed. I don't think I'd want one that doesn't cut good at a top speed unless I was in smaller areas (1 acre or less?). But it does stripe good. The stripes look doubtful out in the sun but alot of stripes get goofed up in the sun, look under the trees in the shade nearer you and they look super! Cut looks good too. I would like the ROPS feature for some areas but I can see it a pain for other's too. Maybe if you have alot of smaller trees to mow make a screen from expanded sheet that would go from the ROPS curving forward like a windsheild and have part of it just plexiglass. That would be neat for an orchard I mow.... it has more than 50 miniature apple trees and they're a pain. For that I would want a setup like I described with a Flex-Deck to get under the trees. This guy wants a push mower used around the trees too so the trimmer doesn't zap the trees. Understandable. But I am good with a trimmer, but he doesn't wanna take any chances. So it is a pain to do this place. He has a ton of trees all over too not just the orchard. Takes along time to mow and trim (around 4-6hrs with a 46" garden tractor for just 3/4 acre!). Have fun with your machine! Looks great!
Eric

[Mowingman]

BusHogBoy,
I have owned or operated 8 different brands of ZTR's and only one of those would give a good cut at top speed. That machine is the Dixie Chopper. All the others I have experience with will leave uncut material when trying to mow at top speed. Most manufacturers do not design the machines to give a perfect cut at top speed. Due to standards they are wanting to meet, they keep the blade tip speed down to about 18,500 fpm. Dixie Chopper runs theirs up to 19,000fpm and that gives their mowers a better cut at high ground speed. Even the DC will not always give a good cut at top speed if grass conditions, blade sharpness, and ground conditions are not good. :)

[TLS]

Pelican,

Nice looking mower! Those ROPS bars are good for one thing....Collecting dust in the garage!!!

That is one L O N G mower! The website says 89" long! :dizzy: My LC Lazer is 80" and most other Lazers are only 78.5" long. Looks like a big distance from rear edge of deck to the drive tires. This is a scalp waiting to happen in my book. Also looks to have a large rear overhang. I guess this is what you get when your putting a 28hp diesel in a compact mower. :(

The price is quite a surprise to me! Thats not much more than other premium non-Diesel ZTR's! This is what happens when the engine manufacturer is also the mower manufacturer! Win - Win situation for them and YOU!

I wish you many happy mowing hours :D

Have fun with your new toy!!!


Mowingman,

I will agree that DC is one of the few mowers out there that cut well at high speeds, however, the 500 FPM blade tip speed isn't the reason. The reason is deck design, and tire dampning. The DC deck is a baffle-less deck design with an open front skirt. This allows for a large volume of clippings to evacuate the deck at high speeds. I had a few lawns that my old Flatlander could cut at 15 mph and look decent. Those same lawns are able to be cut by my Lazer at it's top speed of 10 mph and look much better. If the Lazer could go 15 mph, I doubt it would cut as good as the DC. However, the Lazer cuts all my other lawns with much more precision and finer clipping dispersal.
A slight increase in RPM's of any mower will put it at or above 19,000 fpm.

[Mowingman]

TLS,
You are right, the deck does have a lot to do with it. I felt like the higher tip speed would make a difference too, but I am sure both, as well as the tires all play a role.
One machine I have not owned is an Exmark. I had a Toro ZMaster and expected big things from it since it is an Exmark with a Toro deck.It mowed like ****. The SFS deck is a piece of junk( in my opinion) From what I now know, the Exmark deck is far superior to the Toro SFS thing.:)

[FrankenScagMachines]

Sorry if I sounded like a know it all back there... I don't have alot of experience with ZTR's, just a 2001 JD M655 with the 25 Kohler and 54" 7 iron deck. The thing cut lousy at the top speed of 9mph. It had a ton of suction though, it lifted a really heavy rubber mat (about 3'x6' one) off of a sidewalk and stalled the motor (was at high speed) just as I let the deck down to do some grass next to the entrance to the JD dealership.. didn't do alot to the rug because it stalled the motor quickly but it shredded it pretty good LOL we all had a laugh after we found out that nothing other than the rug was damaged... Anyhow, back to the cut at top speed thing, I just assumed that most ZTR's cut good at a relatively high speed, not judging it by anything. I didn't realize that DC decks were baffleless. Does this mean that they are squared inside (straight, no curves)? So is the back of the deck just a straight edge perpendicular to the drive wheels?? Hmm... never heard of this before on a mower. Except some old old old old garden tractors that don't cut good at all.
Interesting....
Eric

[TLS]

Bushhogboy,

DC's have rear baffles. The standard "w" shaped curved baffles. But they dont have front skirt baffles that push grass from one blade into the chamber of the next, and so on.

Sorry to confuse you.

P.S. If you run over enough mats with a DC, you will eventually be baffle-less.

Sorry to "Baffle" you :D

[FrankenScagMachines]

Thomas- now I really am baffled...... I am not sure what you are speaking of, baffles on front of deck. I usually just see a curved edge on front of decks, that lets grass pass through to next blade and out of the deck...... maybe a pic????
Eric

[TLS]

Sorry to get this off topic, but try this link...

http://www.exmark.com/images/ultracut.jpg

On edit....

Also try the entire Ultra-Cut deck page....

http://www.exmark.com/UltraCut.htm

If you look at the see through deck in the front you can see the flow control baffles. Toro, and DC, among countless others, dont have these front baffles.

[FrankenScagMachines]

OK, I see... yea i have seen those now that I think about it. someone was complaining about the cut on a Toro SFS deck?? Does that one have baffles? So in general, a deck w/o baffles is better or worse than one with baffles in front? I thought EXmarks have great cut, but then if Toro doesn't have baffles in front then it has better cut than eXmark, who has baffles????
GOD I'm confusing myself aren't I!?!?!?!?!
OK, are baffles in front generally better or worse?
Eric

[TLS]

Front baffles help keep blade suction uniform around the entire circumference of the blade arc. The front baffles are similar to the rear baffles that all mowers have, except ..... they're in the front!!

Front baffle points: (Newer Exmarks, SCAGS, Buntons, Bobcats, etc)

* Seem to have greater lift or suction
* Seem to chop up clippings better prior to dispersal. (Can be hit by all 3 sets of blades)
* Can be better in wet conditions by keeping more of the deck in a "high pressure" condition.


Non Front Baffle Points: (Toro, JD, DC, Older SCAG, Bunton, Bobcat, etc)

* Seem to disperse large volumes of clippings quickly.
* These are the speed kings in thick heavy turf. (Some are, some just cut VERY poorly!)
* Seem to leave the longest blade of grass in its discharge (since it only gets cut by one set of blades)


I surely hope that this helps clear things up Bush!

Once again, sorry for the off topic!

[Pelican]

My observation has been at top travel speed, the deck doesn't have enough time to suck up the grass pushed over by the front tires and leaves trails. Maybe high lift blades would help on those spindles. I don't know if I want my guys going that fast anyway with the deck running, it could result in a serious accident.

The rear of the deck has an anti'scalp roller attached tha you can't see, scalping hasn't been a problem. I didn't mention how well this machine holds the side hills compared to my old Skag, I'm mowing spots now where the old machine would just slide to the bottom of the hill. I'm very pleased so far.

[Pelican]

Brought this one back for an update. At season's end, I'm still very pleased with the performance of this mower. I'll list a few of my further findings.

A tank of fuel lasts about a day and 1/2, much better economy than the 22 horse Kohler.

I've got about 325 hours on it now, here's what I've done so far for service:

3 oil/filter changes
1 transmission filter change
1 set of blades
weekly greasing/cleaning/sharpening

Repairs:
2 bolts that hold seat suspension to frame broke
1 flat front tire.

That's it!

By 300 hours on my old Super Z, the machine had been back to the dealer at least a dozen times, had a new deck installed, numerous bearings replaced, clutch replacement, etc.

The only problem I have with the machine while mowing is the front anti-scalp wheels, they gouge the turf if you are turning up into a slope. They'd work better if they were on casters.

Overall, I'm very pleased with this machine. It's been everything I'd hoped and more! With my diesel tank here, I've cut trips to the gas station to once a week instead of every other day, a big time saver.

[TLS]

1 set of blades???

Thats pretty good! I have about 6-8 sets for the Lazer!

As for the antiscalp wheel gouging, what is your normal cut height?

They all gouge when turning into a hill. Thats when I tap my foot on the foot lift and take the weight off the deck.

[mowerconsultant]

Originally posted by Pelican
By 300 hours on my old Super Z, the machine had been back to the dealer at least a dozen times, had a new deck installed, numerous bearings replaced, clutch replacement, etc.

Super Z as in Scag SSZ (Super Z)

Not the Hustler Super Z

Glad the Kubota is doing well for you, they make a fine piece of equipment, and even better engines.

Later
Pj

[Envy Lawn Service]

Pelican,

Is there a certain thing you can put your finger on about this machine that gives it better sidehilling ability?

I cut hilly terrain and I'm shopping for a new ZTR. I don't have $10,000 to put in one but I'd like to have a general idea of what to look for in others for better handling.

Thanks!

[Mow&Snow]

I've been looking at one of these to replace my old Bunton Twister 52". I have to have collection though, any of you guys seen one of these with collection installed? My dealer doesn't have any, and doesn't sound like he has even seen one.

That worries me for so reason....

[Pelican]

We've been running a 3" cutting height. The old Skag didn't gouge when turning, although I couldn't use it much on hills either, it always ended up sliding to the bottom.

As for the slope holding, this machine has wider tires and a wider track than the Skag (not Hustler) it replaced. I'm pretty certain the center of gravity is lower too. I guess these might be things to look for.

I don't know about a collection system, I'll ask next time at the dealers.

[tru cut]

Pelican;

Go to dealer and have them ck your ser. # for the trans bearing. I have the zd21W/220hrs that just had a new tranny put in because the bearing on the back of the trans let loose 2100.00for trans covered under warenty.

[Pelican]

Well, my second season with the Kubota is coming to an end, the machine has 750 hours now. It has really turned out to be a wise purchase!

I've made 2 additional repairs since I last posted, I overtightened one blade bolt and stripped it, it only required a new bolt. Trouble is this is a specialized bolt and the dealer didn't stock it. I cobbed up a replacement to keep going and ordered a few to have some on hand.

The blade attachment is one area that I'm disappointed. It seems too complicated, with a splined shaft, splined washers and a special shoulder bolt. The bolt could be a larger diameter in my opinion too. I like the through bolt set up that Skag uses, very stout and simple.

The other repair was a cooling hose. It had rubbed on the fan belt and got a hole worn in it. Fortunately I was only a few miles from an auto parts store and was down only 45 minutes.

The deck wheels continue to dig in to the turf on some turns, the newer models have this set up as a caster wheel now. I'm going to try to convert mine to this during the off season.

Would I buy another? You bet!! It's been the most reliable machine I've owned.

[UGA]

I was hoping with all of that horsepower that they could have increased the blade tip speed to go along with their new decks to give it a much improved cut at half and full speed. I have been looking at that unit very hard but just can't be convinced it will do a better job overall than the Lazer or Super Z. Just my 2 cents since I've only been on a ZD21 for a half a day. I've been receiving those Kubota Country newletters every month for a couple of months now and they continue to say everything you want to hear about a mower in them. I just haven't seen the proof of it yet in the cut; Maybe time to demo a ZD28. I know a guy that has one but it's a 72" cut. Good to hear you're happy with yours though.

[otlc]

I HAVE RECENTLY PURCHASED A KUBOTA ZD 21. I THINK IT CUTS GREAT, BUT NOT AT TOP SPEED. IT IS A LOT HEAVIER THAN THE MOWERS THAT I HAVE BEEN USING,AND I ALSO HAD TO REARRANGE MY TRAILER TO KEEP THE TONGUE WEIGHT RIGHT. ALL IN ALL THE MACHINE IS A EXCELLENT CHOICE BUT I WOULDNT RECOMMEND THE BAGGING SYSTEM TO MY WORST ENEMY. ITS TOO BIG AND BULKY (VERY HEAVY WHEN TRYING TO REMOVE BY YOURSELF) DOESNT BAG RYE OR DAMP GRASS WORTH A TOOT. THE VACUUM/ BLOWER IS IN MY OPINION LOCATED TOO FAR FROM THE DECK AND DOES'NT IN RETURN HAVE ENOUGH PULL AT THE DECK. THE METAL BOOT THAT ATTACHES TO THE DECK IS TOO SMALL AND NARROW TO ACCOMODATE FOR THE AMOUNT OF CLIPPINGS THE 60" PRO DECK THROWS AT IT . IT ALSO THROWS GRASS ALL OVER THE OPERATOR BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE TUBE IS ATTACHED TO THE BLOWER TO THE BAGGER. IT HAS NO SIGHT GLASSES IN THE HOOD OF THE BAGGER TO MONITOR FILL UP. AND IT TOWS BEHIND THE MOWER LIKE A TRAILER ON SWIVEL DOLLY WHEELS AND MAKES THE RIDE QUALITY AND CUT QUALITY SUFFER I HAVE BEEN VERY DISSATISFIED WITH THE BAGGING SYSTEM AND AM WONDERING IF ANY ONE ELSE WITH A ZD BAGGING SYSTEM IS HAVING THE SAME PROBLEM. SORRY FOR THE LENGTH BUT AT WITS END

[The Lawn Boy Pro]

OTLC, PLEASE dont type in all caps.Just for future notification, its considered yelling at someone on the internet. ;) Anyhow, I know what cha mean about weight and things like such. I dont have that bagger, but my Trac Vac is a 2 man job to get on all the time. You aint gonna be baggin nothing theres noone else to help you get it on the back. :dizzy:

[cblackwe]

Pelican,

Do you have another ZD w/ the fab deck? Or have you upgraded your original? Just wondering. Glad to hear about the hill abilities of the Kubotas. Gonna try one out this week on my retention basins and commercial slopes.

[Pelican]

I'd like to upgrade to at least the swiveling casters, this is my chief complaint with the mower. I think the deck would be too costly. I plan to check the financing deals next season, I may look into trading up to the commercial deck machine. I haven't been able to find high lift blades for this machine, I can't say if they'd be available for the updated model either.