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raschmid07
02-09-2010, 04:00 PM
Check out Cat.com and and rollover the Tier 4 press event and a picture of at least a new color-schemed excavator shows up. I'm guessing E-series, but I'll be interested to see when they introduce it. Is it me or have they changed their series pretty frequently the past couple of years?

wcoltharp
02-09-2010, 04:22 PM
That color scheme will have to grow on me..I have liked the cylinders being painted black since they started doing that, so I'm glad to see it continued...It does seem like they have been changing things up frequently...

alco
02-09-2010, 05:21 PM
No matter how frequently they change up the series of machines, they still can't get it right.

Tigerotor77W
02-09-2010, 06:12 PM
No matter how frequently they change up the series of machines, they still can't get it right.

What's wrong with them? Reliability aside (and I realize that's a huge aspect of how much an operator will like a machine), I thought successive series have gotten closer and closer to the competition if not surpassing it.

That aside, the high rear-end is somewhat worrisome.

alco
02-09-2010, 07:06 PM
What's wrong with them? Reliability aside (and I realize that's a huge aspect of how much an operator will like a machine), I thought successive series have gotten closer and closer to the competition if not surpassing it.

You're kidding right? Aside from reliability? Ummmm, where do I start? Reliability is about the biggest issue with them, but on a similar yet different front, they don't last. They are nice when they are new, but get some hours on them and they just don't cut it. I could keep going, but there's no real point. On a good note though, I have always liked their cabs the best. The most comfortable cab to sit and wait for a mechanic in.

Barge Man
02-09-2010, 07:13 PM
You're kidding right? Aside from reliability? Ummmm, where do I start? Reliability is about the biggest issue with them, but on a similar yet different front, they don't last. They are nice when they are new, but get some hours on them and they just don't cut it. I could keep going, but there's no real point. On a good note though, I have always liked their cabs the best. The most comfortable cab to sit and wait for a mechanic in.

Thats a bit harsh dont ya think. I have seen more cat trackhoe's with high hours than most other makes IMO. What makes do you like?

alco
02-09-2010, 07:32 PM
Personally, I prefer Hitachi/Deere and then next in line would be Komatsu. What are you considering high hours?

Blue Goose
02-09-2010, 07:56 PM
We have three Hitachi/ Deere exc. A 450, 330, and a 270. The 450 and the 330 have around 3000 to 3500 hours on them the 270 is higher. We have a 330 Cat that has 5-6000 (not exactly sure) hours that runs like a champ. I've seen an old 235C Cat that had almost 20,000 hours on it that was reliable as all hell. Granted it had ancient technology and the cycle times were so slow you could clock them with a sun dial...

Barge Man
02-09-2010, 08:02 PM
I know of 6 cat excavators around here that have 8,000 plus. One 320 is a 94 and has over 20,000 and he has only had to change minor parts. Our 315 has over 5,000 and nothing to change yet. This is just my opnion and what I have seen around here.

Scag48
02-09-2010, 08:54 PM
Cat hoes last the longest, period. You won't find a hoe that lasts longer than Cat, just doesn't exist. Deere comes in second, Komatsus start falling apart after 10,000 hours. I've seen a FEW 10,000+ hour Komatsus out there but not very many. Ran a PC200-6 with 12,000 hours and a PC400-6 with 11,000 at the last outfit I was with. They both ran okay but were pretty tired and in all honesty, probably about to get traded off from what I had heard from the boss. We have a Cat 315L at work with 15,000 hours, still going. Don't get me wrong, Komatsu builds a good hoe they just don't last as long. Komatsus are good producers and will get the job done without a doubt but to say Cat builds a crappy hoe that doesn't last simply isn't matter of fact.

stuvecorp
02-09-2010, 09:23 PM
Cat hoes last the longest, period. You won't find a hoe that lasts longer than Cat, just doesn't exist. Deere comes in second, Komatsus start falling apart after 10,000 hours. I've seen a FEW 10,000+ hour Komatsus out there but not very many. Ran a PC200-6 with 12,000 hours and a PC400-6 with 11,000 at the last outfit I was with. They both ran okay but were pretty tired and in all honesty, probably about to get traded off from what I had heard from the boss. We have a Cat 315L at work with 15,000 hours, still going. Don't get me wrong, Komatsu builds a good hoe they just don't last as long. Komatsus are good producers and will get the job done without a doubt but to say Cat builds a crappy hoe that doesn't last simply isn't matter of fact.

:nono: I love to throw rocks every chance I get at Cat but I don't think you can call them the best - or worst.

bobcat_ron
02-09-2010, 09:32 PM
We have 2 6000 hour 320C's, and 1 has a dancing boom issue on the main pin.
Don't trash Cat unles you got some serious proof, we have NEVER had issues with our Cat's, all 3 320's and an older 330B that my brother bought USED with 6000 hours already hammered in to it.

Scag48
02-09-2010, 09:39 PM
You can argue against Cat from a production standpoint, I understand some guys just don't believe they can produce as well as others. However, from a reliability, resale, and longevity standpoint, Cat is practically impossible to beat.

alco
02-09-2010, 09:44 PM
I regularly run a Hitachi 450 with over 45,000 hours on it, and it still goes like a top. Structurally, yes Cat is strong, but after the hours start to mount up, they get very jerky and down right hard to do any fine work with. They are built heavier, but they are slower, burn more fuel, and the lack of fine control as they age is a major issue for anybody I have ever talked to. Even the Cat dealer mechanics here admit the hoes are junk. Just because it says Cat on it doesn't make it a good machine. I never said they are the worst out there, but I sure wouldn't buy one. I could go on and on, but I know the folks who live and breath Cat will just continue to argue because it's Cat.

Anything under 10,000 hours is practically brand new.

Blue Goose
02-09-2010, 09:56 PM
How old is that 450 with 45,000 hrs.?

bobcat_ron
02-09-2010, 10:02 PM
Thank God for Volvo.

alco
02-09-2010, 10:04 PM
How old is that 450 with 45,000 hrs.?

Don't know for sure, but I woud guess 8 to 10 years.

Krafty
02-09-2010, 10:12 PM
Don't know for sure, but I woud guess 8 to 10 years.

45,000 hours on a 10 year old machine? That is like 12 hours a day seven days a week for 10 year straight????????

alco
02-09-2010, 10:26 PM
45,000 hours on a 10 year old machine? That is like 12 hours a day seven days a week for 10 year straight????????

Yep, we work our iron here.

coopers
02-09-2010, 10:30 PM
I don't see it...u gotta be a twitter member to see it?

Tigerotor77W
02-09-2010, 10:46 PM
You're kidding right? Aside from reliability? Ummmm, where do I start? Reliability is about the biggest issue with them, but on a similar yet different front, they don't last. They are nice when they are new, but get some hours on them and they just don't cut it. I could keep going, but there's no real point. On a good note though, I have always liked their cabs the best. The most comfortable cab to sit and wait for a mechanic in.

I regularly run a Hitachi 450 with over 45,000 hours on it, and it still goes like a top. Structurally, yes Cat is strong, but after the hours start to mount up, they get very jerky and down right hard to do any fine work with. They are built heavier, but they are slower, burn more fuel, and the lack of fine control as they age is a major issue for anybody I have ever talked to. Even the Cat dealer mechanics here admit the hoes are junk. Just because it says Cat on it doesn't make it a good machine. I never said they are the worst out there, but I sure wouldn't buy one. I could go on and on, but I know the folks who live and breath Cat will just continue to argue because it's Cat.

Anything under 10,000 hours is practically brand new.

alco, hopefully you're well-enough aware from my posts that I'm not trying to promote Cat unashamedly (call me out if I'm wrong, as maybe then I can snap out of another, separate issue), but I do want to bring up two things.

One is reliability. I said "aside from reliability" because my observation is that it's been an issue. For example: a machine was released; customers ordered it; the machine got put on hold for "quality assurance"; and after a few months delay and the machine finally shipped, it went down in the first 50 hours with a swing motor failure. :rolleyes: My question was in honest curiosity -- I meant that I realize that Cat HEX may not have as good reliability (remember, this is from my standpoint and not reflective of the company's stance), so I was wondering in what other areas they fall short. I know that's overlooking a huge aspect of machine design; I just think it's already present so was wondering about other aspects.

Maybe I'm buying into marketing tests, but from what I've seen, the 345D runs with the best of them. Put it in its power mode and it'll easily outproduce a comparable 450D or 460C; put it in economy and it'll be just as productive as a 450D or 460C and use about the same fuel. In other size classes, especially the smaller (20 tonne, 15 tonne, and 12 tonne), the Cats are able to hang with the best of them *now*. I wouldn't have said it for the C-series HEX, but the Ds are supposed to be better. (The same is true for some wheel loaders -- some *current* Cat models are just as if not more efficient than Volvo's comparable models.)

Again, don't get me wrong -- I don't think that Cat has the best product out there, and there are definitely issues with everything in their current lineup. I am, or was, rather, exposed only to one facet of HEX marketing, and I'm just trying to wrap my head around operators' opinions.

Tigerotor77W
02-09-2010, 10:50 PM
I don't see it...u gotta be a twitter member to see it?

I think you have to join Twitter to "follow" the updates, but I suspect you might be able to periodically go to that site and see what they're posting.

But then again, I don't have a Twitter account so could be talking out of my...

alco
02-09-2010, 11:19 PM
Sorry, I just saw that post as reading something like: "What's wrong with them? Other than the fact they can't keep them running." You have to understand that from my experience, since they went away from the 200 series, they have gone down hill dramatically. Now the 200 series wasn't a fast machine by any means, but I have seen very few issues with them reliability wise. We had a 235C that would drop pump drives every 1000 hours just like clockwork, but that was the biggest problem we seemed to have.

Now, admittedly, the newer series have improved a great deal, but they just don't seem to stand up mechanically in the long haul and still haven't shown me anything to prove they are a contender in the performance category. Like I said, structurally, they are strong, but the controllability aspect falls right off when the hours add up. It's like the become uncoordinated hydraulically, and nothing seems to bring them back short of a complete rebuild/replacement of the hyd end of things. My experience where we were comparing fuel consumption was with a brand new 320C and an older Deere 200C. We traded operators between the two to make sure it wasn't a one sided contest, and the Deere burned 2/3 of the fuel the Cat was. The Deere was also making 4 complete cycles vs the Cat's 3 complete cycles in the same amount of time, working side by side in the same conditions.

I haven't spent much time with the D series, but that is mainly due to the fact that nobody here really wants to buy one. I have seen one D series Cat sitting around, and they were working their older Hitachi instead. That tells me something, but I don't know the reasoning behind it.

I know our other mine bought a 365C a couple years ago, and I have never heard anything good about it from operators, or mechanics. Last I heard, they were wishing they had bought a Hitachi instead, but went for the Cat as at the time we were having parts availability issues and long lead times to get parts for the Hitachi machines. That seems to have straightened out from what I have heard.

So availability aside, my biggest issue with them has been speed, coupled with a marked loss of controllability as they age.

Undercarriage wise, they are hard to beat. Structurally, they are right near the top or right at the top. Of course, Cat makes a good engine, but it seems a bit less efficient/economical that the competition. However, the hydraulic system and controls left a lot to be desired.

Scag48
02-09-2010, 11:42 PM
Cat's larger excavators suck, I will admit that completely. The 365 of any vintage is a pile and even the die hard Cat guys will tell you that, they just aren't good machines. The 385 isn't far behind the 365, if you need something that large, Hitachi is the way to go. The 345D isn't a bad machine at all it's just a very large 45 ton machine, looks like it's 55 ton.

Outfit I'm with buys Cat and Komatsu, just about every hoe we have under 30 tons is Cat and the rest are Komatsu. We do have a 375, not sure on the hours but our PC600-8 and PC800-8 have less than 2,000 hours each. I'll be curious to see how they hold up.

I think you will find that Cat's smaller hoes to hold up quite well. The 200 series and even early 300 series machines kicked some serious ass in their day and if well taken care of, will still perform adequately 15 years later.

Fuel consumption with Cat hoes can't be argued, I know they burn a wad of fuel. Doesn't quite fit into the original discussion, that's more in the area of ownership costs but that's another argument in itself.

The D series released a lot of improvements and greatly enhanced Cat's lineup, IMO. I've run a 325DL and having run 2 different 325CL's and a 325CLCR, the D proves to have more power, stability, and greater fine motion capability.

alco
02-09-2010, 11:59 PM
I think you will find that Cat's smaller hoes to hold up quite well. The 200 series and even early 300 series machines kicked some serious ass in their day and if well taken care of, will still perform adequately 15 years later.

Fuel consumption with Cat hoes can't be argued, I know they burn a wad of fuel. Doesn't quite fit into the original discussion, that's more in the area of ownership costs but that's another argument in itself.

I would actually disagree with both of the above statements. My experience has shown that all of the 300 series seem to do the same thing, lose controllability as they age. When they introduced the 300 series, they couldn't compete as they were already so far behind everyone else. We got a new 320 when they were introduced, and our old 215C could whip it's but with no effort.

I also think fuel consumption plays into this. Even if a machine ran flawlessly, but gulped fuel, that would put a sour taste into most smaller operators mouths. In that sense, I feel it fits into the discussion just fine.

waters lawn care
02-10-2010, 12:15 AM
Ran a lot of hoes, hard to beat a 330 link belt really nice machine.

ksss
02-10-2010, 12:19 AM
Thank God for Volvo.

Thats funny, since Volvo is shutting down their excavator plant in NA.

Scag48
02-10-2010, 12:22 AM
I also think fuel consumption plays into this. Even if a machine ran flawlessly, but gulped fuel, that would put a sour taste into most smaller operators mouths. In that sense, I feel it fits into the discussion just fine.

We were originally talking about reliability and the hoes themselves holding up, not production and fuel consumption but I see where you're coming from.

alco
02-10-2010, 12:41 AM
We were originally talking about reliability and the hoes themselves holding up, not production and fuel consumption but I see where you're coming from.

I still feel it fits because originally we weren't talking about reliability. Tigerotor actually said "What's wrong with them? Reliability aside " and things progressed from there. But yeah, it was getting away from the current discussion.

Scag48
02-10-2010, 12:50 AM
I still feel it fits because originally we weren't talking about reliability. Tigerotor actually said "What's wrong with them? Reliability aside " and things progressed from there. But yeah, it was getting away from the current discussion.

Ah, gotcha, I missed that. haha. All good man.

alco
02-10-2010, 12:53 AM
LOL, yeah, sorry, not trying to come across as a prick....but more than likely succeeding anyhow.

Scag48
02-10-2010, 01:02 AM
It's all good man, all for the sake of argument. I don't mind going back and forth with someone as long as it stays civil, you're doing alright. :waving:

Ozz
02-10-2010, 01:29 AM
I don't see it...u gotta be a twitter member to see it?

No, I'm on twitter and can see it. I saw it when I wasn't logged in earlier too. Anybody have pics of the new scheme?

Gravel Rat
02-10-2010, 04:15 AM
I agree with Alco that Cat excavators are not the best.

One of the forestry contractors here uses nothing but Hitachi excavators and been doing so for many years. The excavators are digging in blast rock building logging road every year the machines are building 20-30 kilometers of road. Working in conditions where buckets need a rebuild every 6 months bucket teeth last a month. There are a few old EX400s kicking around that have seen nothing but bush road building with 20,000 hours on them.

Komatsu is next in line for a common machine to be used.

You want a tough bush machine you buy a Hitachi very reliable good on fuel and run forever. Digging blasted rock beats the crap out of the machine. When the buckets get thin you see the bottom torn out or the top part of the bucket that the quick connect lugging is welded to is twisted off.

Volvo is getting a foot in the door in the forestry road building machines.

jefftb
02-10-2010, 10:35 AM
For those of you that cannot see it, that's because you need to hover your mouse pointer over the small engine pic on CAT.com where it says TIER 4 event and Twitter, wait and in pops a picture of the machine just above that to the right.

You're not going to see pictures of machines at Twitter.

Also that is an "E" series designated machine in the picture.

Tigerotor77W
02-10-2010, 10:56 AM
So availability aside, my biggest issue with them has been speed, coupled with a marked loss of controllability as they age.

I see. Hopefully some or all of these have been addressed with the E-series (the picture on the Cat homepage is of a 336E), but frankly I have no idea. I ran a new demo 315C and a 308D and both were good, but they were spankin' new.

For fuel consumption... I maintain that for the amount of material moved, some of the newest excavators (we're talking D-series) can keep up somewhat well with the competition. While some brands may burn less fuel in total, I think that Cats burn some of the lowest per material moved. That being said, I'm sure all the brands have their own tests, which means what I'm saying is just based on my own observations (isn't it always? :) ).

Ozz
02-10-2010, 06:10 PM
The new scheme,courtesy of RowanH on DHS:

http://www.lawnsite.com/picture.php?albumid=409&pictureid=2693

I agree, it is wierd. The extra crap from emmsions (catalytic converters etc) is what I think all the fateness on the house is. I'd hate to see the rear visibility on the the E-Series if this is what they turn out to be.

Tigerotor77W
02-10-2010, 06:36 PM
I agree, it is wierd. The extra crap from emmsions (catalytic converters etc) is what I think all the fateness on the house is. I'd hate to see the rear visibility on the the E-Series if this is what they turn out to be.

What about even more electronics? Object avoidance, rear cameras? :drinkup:


:laugh: I think the rear visibility is going to take a beating, too. Pity.

Ozz
02-10-2010, 08:20 PM
What about even more electronics? Object avoidance, rear cameras? :drinkup:


:laugh: I think the rear visibility is going to take a beating, too. Pity.

Haha. What about when your camera's CCD/CMOS fails when you go Dirtman style in a pond?:D

Komatsu already has a backup camera. Even more electronics equals less reliability. It would also let operators get used to and rely on the electronics, get put on an old school machine w/o all the elctronics and then have no idea what they're doing?

coopers
02-10-2010, 11:10 PM
haha, what's so different about those colors? At leat they didn't go crazy like Deere... :(

Scag48
02-10-2010, 11:56 PM
The cameras mounted are a bit of a novelty for a lot of situations, IMO. They are worthwhile if you can put one to use. I was loading trucks in a closed shoulder between a barrier lineup and the guardrail. It was nice to know where the tracks and ass of the machine were without getting out the of the machine. The blind side of the hoe was closest to the barrier, had to travel in reverse totally blind as I wasn't able to swing around to see where I was headed. Had multiple trucks coming in and had to walk the hoe 150 feet down the shoulder to let another truck into the lane, a real hassle to say the least. I was working alone with no spotter and live freeway traffic outside the barrier, the camera helped quite a bit with that little gig.

curtisfarmer
02-11-2010, 12:28 PM
Skag, Get that camera web based so we can call your shots:)

I guess the down side is all the hecklers telling you how to do it better:nono:.....but you could give them the finger real time:cool2:

Tigerotor77W
02-11-2010, 01:54 PM
Haha. What about when your camera's CCD/CMOS fails when you go Dirtman style in a pond?:D

Well duh you don't use your machine if there's a possibility of dust or water getting in the camera. :rolleyes:
:laugh:

Ozz
02-11-2010, 05:11 PM
Well duh you don't use your machine if there's a possibility of dust or water getting in the camera. :rolleyes:
:laugh:

I get that you're joking,but seriously. What will people do?

Boss Exc.
02-11-2010, 07:53 PM
Here are acouple of full pics...

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n137/robinr1/post-2258-1265918505_thumb.jpg
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n137/robinr1/post-2258-1265918781_thumb.jpg

bobcat_ron
02-11-2010, 08:29 PM
Holy mother of Jebus that engine shroud is high, there is NO visibilty over that.
I'd stick to Vovlo, Hitachi, LBX/Case and Kobelco.

milleam
02-11-2010, 09:22 PM
Holy mother of Jebus that engine shroud is high, there is NO visibilty over that.
I'd stick to Vovlo, Hitachi, LBX/Case and Kobelco.

Keep in mind that this new engine shroud is most likely due to added emissions control hardware. ALL manufacturers have to meet Tier 4 emissions, not just CAT. Most likely, all machines by all manufactures are going to have drastic design changes to engine enclosures to house all this extra hardware.

Tigerotor77W
02-11-2010, 10:00 PM
I get that you're joking,but seriously. What will people do?

Sorry -- I thought you were joking as well. My bad.

Erm, well, there's two avenues. The first is to seal the camera well enough so that the elements don't affect its components. While I don't think there's a "solid-state" camera out there yet, Canon and Olympus (and others; I just know of these two off the top of my head) build a weatherproof model that's somewhat ruggedized. So to counter the question of "what would happen if," engineers would simply have to build it so no issue ever arises. If something failed (knocked off a cover or something, for instance), nothing immediate comes to mind. Seeing behind even today's excavators is tough, so the general problem wouldn't be new. Given, however, that space on jobsites seems to be perpetually decreasing, the biggest thing that can be done is to engineer the correct solution.

Keep in mind that this new engine shroud is most likely due to added emissions control hardware. ALL manufacturers have to meet Tier 4 emissions, not just CAT. Most likely, all machines by all manufactures are going to have drastic design changes to engine enclosures to house all this extra hardware.

Yeah, I was going to say this, too. I'm curious to see how exactly other manufacturers will address this.

alco
02-11-2010, 10:16 PM
engineers would simply have to build it so no issue ever arises.

the biggest thing that can be done is to engineer the correct solution.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..........you crack me up!

Tigerotor77W
02-11-2010, 10:35 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..........you crack me up!

Aw, come on -- give me some credit here. I realize that something will always break, but what're you gonna do if a rear-view camera fails on the job site? The best you can try is some preventative medicine and hope it works most of the time.

alco
02-11-2010, 11:08 PM
You know, there is one good thing to come out of this for Cat.

Now they'll actually have something to compete against C series Deeres with...lmao.

Tigerotor77W
02-11-2010, 11:29 PM
You know, there is one good thing to come out of this for Cat.

Now they'll actually have something to compete against C series Deeres with...lmao.

Wow... I didn't realize your dislike was so deep-rooted!

I should figure out who's running their pilot builds and try to get you one. Win your cold little heart right over. :weightlifter:

coopers
02-11-2010, 11:29 PM
Keep in mind that this new engine shroud is most likely due to added emissions control hardware. ALL manufacturers have to meet Tier 4 emissions, not just CAT. Most likely, all machines by all manufactures are going to have drastic design changes to engine enclosures to house all this extra hardware.

If that's the case I'd stick with the older units then. That does suck how high the shroud is. I have noticed it seems the D series Deere's have a higher shroud but I could be wrong. I have not looked at one in person yet.

alco
02-11-2010, 11:39 PM
Wow... I didn't realize your dislike was so deep-rooted!

I should figure out who's running their pilot builds and try to get you one. Win your cold little heart right over. :weightlifter:


Hahahaha, I'm just bustin' your chops. In all honesty though, I really doubt they'd wanna take one one field follow. We've done our time with that end of things, they aren't really into being a guinea pig again.

That being said, I'd happily take a free ticket to the proving grounds to try one out........lol.

Tigerotor77W
02-12-2010, 12:19 AM
Hahahaha, I'm just bustin' your chops. In all honesty though, I really doubt they'd wanna take one one field follow. We've done our time with that end of things, they aren't really into being a guinea pig again.

That being said, I'd happily take a free ticket to the proving grounds to try one out........lol.

Naw, I know you're just giving me a hard time. :drinkup:

It'd be difficult for me to persuade anyone who to talk to on field follow. I suggested a FF customer for another product a few years ago and was rebuffed -- "We don't want a customer that operates a competitive product," they had said. (There was good reason for this, but I was at least still part of the company back then.)

AEL
02-12-2010, 12:26 AM
Looks fugly with that engine shroud so high. I guess its the future look for all excavators.:hammerhead:

Boss Exc.
02-12-2010, 04:43 PM
Found two more...

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n137/robinr1/dsc4689.jpg
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n137/robinr1/dsc4344cw.jpg

Justin
02-12-2010, 08:16 PM
The cab looks somewhat like a mix of a Deere/komatsu and a case. And that engine cover is waayyyyy high. Looks like a 45 ton machine. And deere's backside actually went down a little bit with the d's. At first I didn't like deere's new volvo colors but now I love em. Didn't like a volvo's either but i've grown to like them.
I can't say much about cat's bigger hoes(s365 and 85) but hated the 350. the 345 was a way better machine. I'm more used to a smaller 325 and down. Can't say one thing nice about any 320's besides d's. The 315 and 318 are decent. And i have never seen any cat hoe good on fuel. They are built good but just don't seem to hold up in the long run.

Ozz
02-15-2010, 12:59 AM
[QUOTE=Justin;3414318]The cab looks somewhat like a mix of a Deere/komatsu and a case. And that engine cover is waayyyyy high. Looks like a 45 ton machine. [QUOTE]
Reminds me of the old B series cabs. Square with a bend in the front about 1/2 way up. The venting(? or is it just texture?) and glass layout reminds me of the Komatsu cab, so in my opinion, older cat cabs mixed with Komatsu.
It does look like the 345, scary,aint it?:laugh:

Oh, and umm... screw the EPA.

raschmid07
02-22-2010, 10:07 PM
I was just reading my ENR and read an article about Cat's future clean-air measures. These are going to be a lot a numbers at once, but pretty interesting. In 2009, Cat spent $6 million per working day for research & development for new, cleaner diesel engines, and $7.5 billion over the past six years. The article also said that prices will rise by about 12% over the next four years for all new machines. As many people have been pointing out, the engine compartment is about 12 inches taller than current models because of the never restrictiond. Finally, the 336E in the pictures earlier is headed to Kewit for job-testing.