What would you do? (Long)

[jgoran5]

Well here goes. I am a first time poster but a long time lurker. I bought an existing Lawn care company about 3 years ago. I inherited 4 employess when I took over. I fired one employee when he stole a pressure washer from me. Called the police and was going to press charges but he returned it. Well one of the 3 remaining Mexican guys is a very hard worker and is very good at everything from bush trimming to plantings as well as mowing and trimming. He is a foreman and is paid $16.00 per hour, which I thought was pretty good. However I just found out that this guy has stolen about 15 of my accounts from me and does them on Saturday or Sunday. I just thought the customers didn't like me personally because I was the new owner. Now I'm 6'5" 315 and what I would like to do is grab him by the throat and ......well you know what I mean.

I have 9 guys working 3 crews right now. When I took over I only had 4 guys and 2 crews. We never worked more than 40 hours. Currently we are working 45- 55 hours a week.

What would you do? Right now I look like the village idiot to the rest of the guys and I'm not happy about it.

[scottb]

Since he is already the competition I would have to let him go. Because he is stealing from you.

[lawnstudent]

Call a company meeting. Discuss company loyalty and moonlighting. Explain how everyone has a stake in the success of the company. Explain that moonlighting is stealing from the company and from its employees. Ask for suggestions from ALL your employees on what they think should be done if anyone was caught moonlighting. Then ask your foreman to join you in a private discussion and ask him to resign.

jim

[Hawkeye5]

yup, he is history. No choice in this at all, good worker/foreman and all is no excuse. He knew what he was doing, now it is time to pay the consequenses. JD

[awm]

im no lawyer ,but it sounds like u mabe ought to talk to one. then if u dont get any good course of from him ,treat the sucker like the thief he is.

[stahls2]

This happened to me two weeks ago. One of my customer's requested me to give him an estimate on mowing a 50 acre tree nursery with his equipment. I could not get back with him for four weeks of the weather and this employee not showing up.

Two weeks ago, this customer approached my employee and requested him to bid the job for me. The employee went and bid the job on my behalf. Later that day, he tells me that the customer approached him and that the customer wanted him to do the work, not my company. So he took the job.

Next day I approached the customer and asked why he went with my employee. He stated that he was not trying to go around me and thought he could bid the job on my behalf.

Long story short, the customer still wanted me to do the job and not the employee.

The employee lied about the situation so he could keep the money. The employee was fired and I am mowing 50 acres.

The employee was a friend.

[The Lawn Choupique]

I wonder if doctor who left a group to open his own office and had patients who just wanted him to treat them, whould be considered a thief for continuning to treat them at his new office?
How about a lawyer who left a firm to open his own office? Yep, a theif too, if he takes any clients with him, forget about the fact he is the only lawyer who can win the case. He is a thief, Just like the doctor. The CPA's ain't no good either. It is called BUSINESS for a reason. It is nothing personal. Fire him, wish him luck and get on with running your business.

[MATTHEW]

What separates this guy from many others is that he got caught. This is a very common practice in many service type businesses. Employers are teaching employees how to run a business. The employee feels cheated because he gets a mere 20-30% of the revenue he produced. Some then, feel compelled to go out on their own and usually solicit clients who know them. Its the ugly side of business. Others are no more than basic criminals, using the company's time and equipment and are pocketing the cash. What a shame. I've said it so many times before... I'll stay solo, thank you.

[ADMowing]

This thread makes me glad we are solo too! It's just me and my husband!!! We've thought of hiring, but, for us, the headaches just aren't worth it.

I agree with what is being said here. I like the idea of calling a company meeting and I like the idea of letting the guy go.

I REALLY like the idea of talking to those customers who he has stollen. If you can get them back and fire the dude, then he will be out on his butt -- entirely!!! This is not vindictive, although I think you have a right to be. It is just getting back what was stollen from you. You might not get them all back, but maybe some of them and, at least, the customers will know what kind of individual they have doing their lawn care.

It is underhanded practice and I wouldn't want an employee like that working for me no matter how good a worker he is!!!

[65hoss]

If you want control of your company and respect from your employees you need to take immediate and harsh action. Nothing gets everyone's attention like firing someone. You will let everyone know its not acceptable and carries big consequences. You must be swift to get the desired effects.

[MOW ED]

Take him out back and give him a Chicago style knee capping. J/K

I'd say fire him but you have to be careful of him lowballing your other jobs once he is gone. There is only so much a guy can do on his own but he has shown you no loyalty so I'd can him.

I have seen this happen here with a guy that used to work for Chemlawn. He quit and took about 100 of their customers with him and started a nice little business.

If this guy isn't legal then I also may be inclined to drop a line to the INS to see if he needs a ride out of town if you get my drift.

Good Luck. BTW are you up around Elgin or closer to the city. I'm from the south side but now all of my family is far Northwest.

[awm]

the lawn c. . cant spellit ,no offence.
when a man is working for my money ,i expect him to be working for my best interest. then if he starts his own and is strait up about it ,ill help him any way i can.

[jgoran5]

Thanks for all the replies.

It is pretty obvious that I will have to fire him. I want to do it with the best possible outcome for my company. I was thinking about having that meeting with him and tell him either I get those clients back or he is gone and then when I get them back I will fire him anyway. Here's a kicker to add to the story. He juist asked me to hire his brother to work with us. He doesn't know that I know yet. I am having someone follow him this Saturday with a digital camera and trhen will have the "talk" with him.

BTW I am near the O'Hare suburbs FWIW

[Runner]

I would think this is definintely grounds for dismissal. I would then go back to the customers and explain the ins and outs of insurances, moral ethics, and the fact that a thief is a thief is a thief. You may get them back, you may not, but either way, I'm sure they'd appreciate knowing.

[Jim Clark]

Agree with Runner, go back to the customers and explain that this guy "stole" their accounts from you. He is probably not insured or bonded, if he were to get hurt on THEIR property he would probably be able to find an ambulance chasing scumbag and sue THEM. The customers probably don't know he still works for you, he probably told them he was going on his own. You know he lowballed you to get the work, if the customer is cheap they'll stick with him, if they prefer to do business with honest people you'll get them back. If I were one of those customers and you explained the situation to me you'd sure as heck get me back.

Ya gotta fire his ass, that's for sure.

Jim

[GrassMaster]

Hello Everybody:

Personally, I would Let him go in a Heart Beat, But Let him Know Why you Let him go! (Was those few Extra Jobs worth Loosing his $16 an hour Job?)

Have a Company Meeting & Explain Why you let him go! What you Expect out of the Employees & What you don't want them to do!

Then I would write a Killer Letter to the Customers Explaining to them about you Purchasing the Business & Accounts for a Fee!

Let them Know the Pit Falls of Working him with No License & no Workers Comp. That he got the Accounts Without Your Knowlege & that you Disissed him because of him Taking your Accounts! And So forth!

It's Basically the Same as Embezzeling from your Company!

Let them know that if it wasn't for you he would have Never got the Accounts to Start With! And...

Leave it on Good Terms with Customers, Because some of them will be coming back. But, If they Knew the Truth from the Start, Would you Really want them back?

He Might have some or all of them thinking he is Still Working for you? Nope Sorry about that, I think you said that they did Let you go? Cut me some slack, I have a Bad Memory. :)

It Takes a Real Low Lifes to do this sort of thing. (Customers) But this is the Mind set Now of a Lot of People, If they can Save a Buck or 2, then it's to Heck with you?

What will he do when he Looses his Job & If he does Loose his Job Will he still be able to Still Keep those Weekend Accounts! For How Long?

Later on Down the road he Might even Come back Looking for work at a LOL, Much Lower Pay Rate!

Sorry it Happened to you, But this is all Part of Being Self Employeed!

[Jim Clark]

As an add-on:

GrassMaster's letter idea is a good one. I bet you'll get a bunch of those customers back.

As a forman he probably had access to nearly everything. You'll have to get your locks changed immediately (he could have had keys made) and make sure your equipment is secure at all times, if a crew stops someplace for lunch someone watches the rig (I'm sure you already do that). If he could steal accounts from you he is capable of worse. Imagine the impact on your business if someone put sugar in all your equipment gas tanks. :eek:

Bummer situation but these are the kind of headaches that go with owning a small service business. :rolleyes:

Good luck.

Jim

[Brickman]

Fire the guy publicly, that way your other employees will learn who is running the show. If the guy has been using your equipment to do this, the least I would do is NOT give him his last pay check.

I don't care how good the guy is, he isn't worth $16 to your company.

One more thought on another post, a friend will screw you worse when he does than a guy that wasn't a friend. I know, I have been screwed.

[Jimbo]

Here is another twist that you might want to use before you get rid of him.

I think that if he stole the number of jobs (15) that you mention he probably has convinced at least one other worker to help him cut these accounts on the weekend. You may have two guys to get rid of? Maybe drive by the accounts on the weekend to try and catch them in the act.

Once you catch them fire them on the spot!!!! Just make sure he doesn't have the ability to take all your workers and get his own start-up going.

Good Luck, and keep us posted.

[JimLewis]

I love lawnstudent's idea of a company meeting. I don't know if I'd ask him to resign though. I'd fire his ass and make it well known to everyone why.

I also agree a lot with what was said by Grassmaster, Jim Clark and Jimbo. All excellent advice.

Additionally, you need to be sure to use non-compete contracts with each guy you hire. Each of my new employees signs one. You'll want your attorney to draw one up for your state but if you want to look at mine, I'd be glad to share it. Notwithstanding the legal trouble they could get into by becoming your competition [after signing this contract] there is also a very important mental impact it has on them. The mere fact that they THINK they'll be sued into the ground if they even think about competing will prevent most people from even trying.