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maxwilbryan
02-15-2010, 05:40 PM
We did the lighting (landscaping, irrigation as well) last winter. Owner was over budget. He wasnt willing to pay the extra $ to light the columns at the time. The job turned out really nice. Im currently lining up a photographer to compile a portfolio of our lighting jobs as we look to market this side of our business. Im going to ask the owner if i can light the columns to take some photos. I'm just going to light them from the bottom for the sake of the image.
He will probably ask me to give him a proposal for going through with the install. I would at least like to be prepared to talk it over.
What type of fixtures would you guys recommend? And any install advise would be greatly appreciated.
And now that i look at it- i guess that front would look kinda cool with some mr-11s angled on the fascia of the center gable... Thanks so much. -max

Pro-Scapes
02-15-2010, 06:09 PM
From the looks of the photo the railing for the front steps ends in the center colums.

I wouldn't try to uplight these. I would use a lightolier recess light installed in the soffit as this would not only light the colums but also help light the steps as well. If the rest of the home is uplit it might look balanced if you place an uplight on each side to catch the sofit too but, this would be based on clients desires and easily added later.

That is a fairly small pediment so be careful when lighting it or it will apear to be way to hot compared to the rest.

Is the balance of the home and landscape lit now ? All I see is a small pathlight.

maxwilbryan
02-15-2010, 11:51 PM
Thanks for the reply Billy. Yes, balance is cool. I'm happy (and owner is too) with everything. There are 10 or so fixtures along the front. Two paths, a couple par 36 halogen wells, and mr-16BABs w/ frosted lenses.

Im afraid recessed lights in this situation will show the source from the street because of the house being high on a hill (look at it from 1st photo). Dont you think? Maybe I'm being too anal here so correct me if its no big deal. I'm considering Halogen AR-11 20w at the top of each column.How would I hide the wires if i chose this route? Would you run white 12g wire behind gutter then running white 16g along front and placing connections in mini jboxes on top of each column...? This is a step up on the difficulty scale for me. So again, I greatly appreciate the advice. -max

Pro-Scapes
02-16-2010, 12:44 AM
No the recessed lights would not show the source if you use the proper fixture. The lamp in the right fixture would be regressed deep inside the can and trim so there would be no glare unless you were laying on the ground directly under the face of the pillars. I have often thought the ones I have installed in the past were burned out only to be surprised just how far under them you need to be to see the lamp. No hot spot... No glare. PERFECT for this application.

Lightolier... 2000LVR... with the keyhole slotted trim... I can't recall the trim number right now...its 2006 trim I think. This fixture takes a 12v mr 16 lamp but is wired in 120v as the transformer is integral to the fixture. The wire would be in the attic and soffit so an EC would be required.

Thats an awfully big home for only 10 fixtures. We just completed one a bit smaller and it was over 35 fixtures but then again we did the remote beds etc.

Do you have a night time photo of this ?

maxwilbryan
02-16-2010, 02:04 AM
I've never taken photos bc to me it looked unfinished w/o the columns lit. There are more than ten fixtures on the property. I was just refering to the front of the house. Like you said the rail meets the inside column so I knew I couldn't uplight them. I was to green a year ago to have the know-how and confidence to sell the downlite option. We had a lot going on so I was happy to do it right in a later phase. FYI The total job consistsed of 23 lights including the back. I'll get some night pics soon. Ill look into the product you mentioned. Ty
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Lite4
02-16-2010, 09:16 AM
Thanks for the reply Billy. Yes, balance is cool. I'm happy (and owner is too) with everything. There are 10 or so fixtures along the front. Two paths, a couple par 36 halogen wells, and mr-16BABs w/ frosted lenses.

Im afraid recessed lights in this situation will show the source from the street because of the house being high on a hill (look at it from 1st photo). Dont you think? Maybe I'm being too anal here so correct me if its no big deal. I'm considering Halogen AR-11 20w at the top of each column.How would I hide the wires if i chose this route? Would you run white 12g wire behind gutter then running white 16g along front and placing connections in mini jboxes on top of each column...? This is a step up on the difficulty scale for me. So again, I greatly appreciate the advice. -max

You are going to mount a surface fixture on top of the columns and your worried about a recessed can light? Not sure I get it. If you are worried about glare put a hex louver in it and you are good to go.

Lite4
02-16-2010, 09:21 AM
Oh man, after looking at your pictures you have it made. Just run your home run wire up the downspout to the upper gutter. pop your lead wires into the soffit behind the gutter, cut in your LV cans, wire em up at the hub and fixtures and your good to go. Easy install and you won't see a single wire.

RLI Electric
02-16-2010, 10:03 AM
Tim, I am assuming a low voltage home run is what you are talking about. If you are still using the Lightolier cans, would you bypass the transformer on the can and just tie directly to the secondary side leads?

Pro-Scapes
02-16-2010, 11:00 AM
You can bypass the transformer on the lightoliers and connect your low voltage wire if need be but I preffer to run them with romex in the attic. I then control them via UPB or an AUBE timer from there. Often times there are recessed or some type of light already on the porch of a home like this so simply tie into there then control the whole section. This really can enhance your overall apperance. It is important to include any 120v fixtures the client uses regularly into your design.

Max since you are most likley insured as a landscaper and not an electrician this is out of your element. You can obtain and specify the locations and lamps on this but in most areas an EC will have to install anything inside.

I too was reffering to the number of fixtures in the front of your job. I would have personally had considerably more fixtures and placed them as such that it wouldnt be over lit.

TXNSLighting
02-16-2010, 11:22 AM
yeh 23 for the whole property is WAY low. I could have 45 up front alone. It would be nice to see a night time shot of the home. And i take it the well lights are probably in the mulch right? Be careful with that if so. Thats a fire hazard.

maxwilbryan
02-16-2010, 12:10 PM
I hear ya on the 23 measly lights. :)When looking at a house that big I guess one assumes money isn't an option. This guy went way over budget on construction,interior decoration, etc. As you probably know landscapers get paid last bc we come in last. You would think on a 4million$ house exterior lights would be speced in from the beginning (at least for the columns). Perhaps he'll have 80 fixtures before it's said and done...
Being happy and content with the way everthing is now, he may like the option of the lights coming on with the front porch switch. Liking the options here. Ty
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maxwilbryan
02-16-2010, 12:43 PM
"You are going to mount a surface fixture on top of the columns and your worried about a recessed can light? Not sure I get it. If you are worried about glare put a hex louver in it and you are good to go."

Tim, Im not trying to be a smarta$$ here but if "I got it" I wouldnt be asking.:wallIve never dealt with the recess lights. For the most part Ive delt with suppliers from John Deere and Ewing. Their reps come and give seminars on different applications and basic electricity but they are pushing their product on landcapers. My suppliers have helped me thus far but have probably taken me as far as they can regarding design advice.
This is where you come in to play! Thumbs Up (couldnt find the beer toasting smily face icon)

Pro-Scapes
02-16-2010, 01:17 PM
It would be a shame to this house to have fixtures and wires visable over the colums.

You will be out of your element on these and will need to consult with a qualified electrician who is not afraid of hieghts.

I promise you that you will have way less glare with the right recessed light vs mounting a LV fixture on the surface over the colum.

I would also consider placing 2 or 3 more on each side to illuminate the house where the front porch covers then significantly dim out the glare bombs or arm them with a 15w lamp.

maxwilbryan
02-16-2010, 01:37 PM
I got an electrician. That's no problem. Why don't you lean towards Tims idea? Btw the front porch has recessed lights. It's been a year since I've seen house at night. I'll go over tonight and snap some shots.
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indylights
02-16-2010, 01:55 PM
yeh 23 for the whole property is WAY low. I could have 45 up front alone. It would be nice to see a night time shot of the home. And i take it the well lights are probably in the mulch right? Be careful with that if so. Thats a fire hazard.

Just curious. When I see those photos, I see limited landscaping in front of the house. How would you have used those 45 lights. To me, that would be way overkill. Just curious how you would do it.

maxwilbryan
02-16-2010, 01:56 PM
just another pic from street:

Pro-Scapes
02-16-2010, 02:35 PM
Tims idea would work to but since the fixture will be cut into the attic you probably need an electrician. Since there are already recessed lights on the porch area you could probably tie into the 120v there. Not only would this easier but it would save any spare room you have on your transformers to add other lights around the landscape which would make upselling thoes fixtures easier. This would also eliminate you from drilling into the facia boards near the gutters creating a potential liability. Further you cannot run your low voltage cable that we normally use in the ground inside the soffits and attics. Its not rated for it and on a hot hot day or in a short circuit scenario you could create a potential fire hazzard.

Once tapped into the porch lights replace the switch controlling thoes lights with an Astro timer like the AubeTech one. I think 1035 is the model timer I would use.

Lite4
02-16-2010, 05:55 PM
Tim, I am assuming a low voltage home run is what you are talking about. If you are still using the Lightolier cans, would you bypass the transformer on the can and just tie directly to the secondary side leads?

I use cans and trims for this application that do not have the transformers with them unlike the lightoliers. And yes, LV home run that works with the other lights. If the HO wants more control I would go to an ABT Zone control or Like Billy said, hard wire with a UPB relay, but in those over hangs it is sometimes very difficult to wire things up and the UPB can be a fairly good expense if the budget is constrained.

Lite4
02-16-2010, 05:57 PM
yeh 23 for the whole property is WAY low. I could have 45 up front alone. It would be nice to see a night time shot of the home. And i take it the well lights are probably in the mulch right? Be careful with that if so. Thats a fire hazard.

Well lights in the mulch are not a fire hazard if you have a glass lense on them.

maxwilbryan
02-16-2010, 06:10 PM
They have a protective honeycomb grate that snaps over top.
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Lite4
02-16-2010, 06:10 PM
Looking at the picture, you may actually have enough room to get into that porch overhang from inside, it actually looks like you may not have to crawl inside it. Billy's way may actually be fairly easy. When you get inside you should have very easy access to the tops of those cans that are already inside the porch area. Tie into the existing cans and the homeowner can use the same switch leg for the pillar lights. The only downside is if they decide to turn off the porch lights you will lose your pillars. Seperate with a seperate switch leg (which will be a major pain in the butt) or go UPB and seperate them. I like the idea of using 2, MR11s up in the small peak above the columns. That would finish them off nicely.

So you at least now have a couple ways to approach this. Good luck on your project.

RLI Electric
02-16-2010, 07:37 PM
Or use a Lutron Wireless Maestro switch. Take power off of a constant feed in the attic, place your switch in the attic and use the RF remote (you can have up to 9) to turn your switch leg on and off. No more 3 ways for meThumbs Up

Pro-Scapes
02-16-2010, 10:37 PM
The idea here is to automate this so it compliments your lighting. by using the existing lights which would 99.9% of the time be switched from inside the front door you can kill 2 birds with one stone and just automate all the lights in one shot... simple aube or if need be do a upb.

You guys are killing yourselves if your trying to wire the cans from inside the attic..While a whip on to them on the ground and either pass it with a glow rod to the next can and hole or slip it back into the attic where you can reach it more with out trying to fit in a 1 ft area then praying your connections are good.

Just make sure no trusses are in the way before you cut out the soffits :laugh: