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View Full Version : ? for the guys with trailers larger than 16 to 18' that haul multiple mowers


Jason Rose
02-20-2010, 10:32 PM
What size are your axles? Tandem only. I'm looking at 20' models and sooo many come standard with 3,500 lb axles. Isn't that silly? A good strong built trailer that size is going to weigh around 3K empty alone, then when you add 3 zero turn mowers, in my case a 61" grasshopper and two Walkers, you are pushing those little axles to the limit. Some trailer places think I'm dumb for waning larger 5,200lb axles and others say it's really smart and something that to many overlook. I just saw another post in the pics forum of a guys brand new 20' enclosed, with 3500lb axles... why???? Just to save a couple hundred bucks up front... and 2 or 3 years down the road when they are tweaked and the brakes have been replaced twice you end up replacing both axles completely. I've been down that road, and not making that mistake again.

But, heres the kicker... The DOT makes it rough on people that want a "proper" trailer to haul their load. Once you get a heavier axled trailer, and pulling it with a 1 ton truck, you are likely over your max GVW and now you need a CDL to drive your damn pickup and lawn trailer on the road. So guys have to buy trailers with undersized axles and max them out to be legal... 7K total weight on a 7K trailer axles is ok legally, but not right mechinacally. 7K on a 10K trailer is smart and safer, but illegal to tow with certian trucks without a CDL. It dosn't pay to be safe?

Thoughts?

doubleedge
02-20-2010, 10:53 PM
Yes, it is stupid. Can't a trailer be registered at a lower gvwr than the axle ratings?

MikeKle
02-20-2010, 11:20 PM
This is one of those goofy laws where common sense was overlooked, these laws were obviously meant for larger trucks, but they probably didnt realize it would affect people like us, Around here the police and the DOT police do not stop lawn care trucks, they are really only concerned with the semi trucks, but then again, this is KY and Im sure they do stop LCOs in other states. IT is fairly common to see goofy people with tiny little compact trucks trying to haul things they should not, like the guy using an S-10 to haul a 16ft tandem trailer with 4-5 quads on it, or the guy I saw last week that was actually towing a big backhoe on a gooseneck trailer with a 3/4 ton truck!!! I have no clue how he was doing it, but I bet it took him forever to stop that thing, if he could at all?!! I also bet his brakes were smoking on that truck!! They do not even stop guys like this here in KY!! Anything goes here!

dishboy
02-20-2010, 11:21 PM
Yes, it is stupid. Can't a trailer be registered at a lower gvwr than the axle ratings?

Yes.....................

Jason Rose
02-20-2010, 11:23 PM
Yes, it is stupid. Can't a trailer be registered at a lower gvwr than the axle ratings?

Depends on who you ask. A "compliance enforcement" guy told us at my dealers open house, that the DOT inspectors don't care what the tag on the trailer frame says, that they just count lugnuts.

The people at the trailer place told me that the DOT guys USUALLY don't have a clue and call them all the time asking what weight a "X" lug axle is rated for, lol. and that they uually jsut go by what's stamped on the trailer frame.

Jason Rose
02-20-2010, 11:32 PM
Anything goes here too. Funny trailer sighting here. I've seen a roofing company here that must be to cheap to have the shingles delievered to the site like MOST do so they haul their own. They have a trailer that is just as JUNK as you can possibly imigine. rusted pipe frame, really no sort of "structure" to it and 2 ancient trailer house axles, pulled by a VAN. I saw it one day with SIX pallets of shingels on it going down the road. The axles were so bent all 4 wheels were angled out at the bottom several inches past the tops. The whole thing was sway backed and the tounge was almost hitting the pavement and the front of the van was in the sky. But they were on a mission. What's a pallet of shingles, 3K lbs? I think it is... Insanity. But those kinds of people never get cought. It's the people that actually TRY to do things by the book that get stopped and fined for some dumb crap like not putting 2 straps on everything on the trailer to drive it 4 blocks to the next stop.

SNAPPER MAN
02-20-2010, 11:55 PM
This is why I'm glad I live in Texas. I pull around a 20' landscape trailer with 5200lb axles and have never had any problems. I would recommend getting the larger axles.

PLS-Tx
02-20-2010, 11:58 PM
This is why I'm glad I live in Texas. I pull around a 20' landscape trailer with 5200lb axles and have never had any problems. I would recommend getting the larger axles.

Same here, and no snow to shovel. :)

MJB
02-21-2010, 12:01 AM
What size are your axles? Tandem only. I'm looking at 20' models and sooo many come standard with 3,500 lb axles. Isn't that silly? A good strong built trailer that size is going to weigh around 3K empty alone, then when you add 3 zero turn mowers, in my case a 61" grasshopper and two Walkers, you are pushing those little axles to the limit. Some trailer places think I'm dumb for waning larger 5,200lb axles and others say it's really smart and something that to many overlook. I just saw another post in the pics forum of a guys brand new 20' enclosed, with 3500lb axles... why???? Just to save a couple hundred bucks up front... and 2 or 3 years down the road when they are tweaked and the brakes have been replaced twice you end up replacing both axles completely. I've been down that road, and not making that mistake again.

But, heres the kicker... The DOT makes it rough on people that want a "proper" trailer to haul their load. Once you get a heavier axled trailer, and pulling it with a 1 ton truck, you are likely over your max GVW and now you need a CDL to drive your damn pickup and lawn trailer on the road. So guys have to buy trailers with undersized axles and max them out to be legal... 7K total weight on a 7K trailer axles is ok legally, but not right mechinacally. 7K on a 10K trailer is smart and safer, but illegal to tow with certian trucks without a CDL. It dosn't pay to be safe?

Thoughts?

Thats all I run on my 20'. I'm carrying about the same weight as you. I have 2 60" Lazers, 1 66" Super Z, and a 21"Honda and stringtrimmers. The difference for me is I live in a town of 20,000 and I rarely have to get into a hurry and drive in bad traffic slamming on brakes, there is no rough driving as long as I'm driving. The trailer works great for me, but I could see why some would want the heavier axles. I bought this trailer used so it had a few dings but I sure like the room.

DLCS
02-21-2010, 01:26 AM
Really doesn't make any sense. Just like here in Illinois, most trailers on lots don't have electric brakes or if they do its only on one axle. Illinois law says both axles must have brakes and brake away switch installed and working too. Illinois DOT is going to be cracking down on all commercial companies this year and it includes lawn and landscape guys. They started checking lawn guys here last fall, I know a couple that got busted for overweight. States need money and I bet Illinois will not be the only ones writing tickets.

KrayzKajun
02-21-2010, 01:32 AM
thts why i ordered my my 18ft enclosed with 5200lb axles

SouthSide Cutter
02-21-2010, 01:40 AM
I know 3 people that have gone across the State line into KY from In and Ohio and both got wacked for not being legal DOT. I think the law is the same almost everywhere now.

02DURAMAX
02-21-2010, 04:11 AM
I Won't buy a trailer with anything less than 5,200lb axles. thats why my 18'er is a car hauler with 5,200lb axles...just last month I went to pick up a car in Maine and Not one problem, over 2K miles.

scotlykins
02-21-2010, 06:14 AM
I may put large diameter axles on my next trailers. I run a 16 and 20 ft trailers on 3500lb axles. with three mowers on the 20 ft trailer; two on the 16 ft. I generally replace an axle a year on my 20 ft. If one of the wheels hits anything the axle will bend. But I have replaced the axles on the 16 ft, but it takes more of a whack.

hitechlm
02-21-2010, 08:40 AM
i have a 24' enclosed with 5k axles and we load that trailer down with 2 ztr's and 2 wb's

Jason Rose
02-21-2010, 09:44 AM
Good to hear all the folks with the heavier axles. Sounds like it's a no brainer for me.

It's just sad that they will stop you and find you are overweight (fine) with 3500K axles, but with the same load and not overwieght with 5200 or 6000K axles you will incurr an even larger fine for not having a CDL (if you are pulling with a vehicle that puts your total GVWR over 26,001.)

My problem with being "over" my GVWR with the larger axles is really a non issue simply because of the gvwr of my chevy 3500HD is 20K aready. Even with my current trailer at 7K gvwr I'm over... Of course they won't be changing the laws to be more "common sence" because it's a huge revenue generator for the states. And say if the made it legal to tow any trailer with the max of a 1 ton truck with no CDL you KNOW that there would be haulers everywhere dropping back to a 1 ton and overloading the hell out of it to stay away from the CDL nstead of using a larger truck.

IN2MOWN
02-21-2010, 09:48 AM
What size are your axles? Tandem only. I'm looking at 20' models and sooo many come standard with 3,500 lb axles. Isn't that silly? A good strong built trailer that size is going to weigh around 3K empty alone, then when you add 3 zero turn mowers, in my case a 61" grasshopper and two Walkers, you are pushing those little axles to the limit. Some trailer places think I'm dumb for waning larger 5,200lb axles and others say it's really smart and something that to many overlook. I just saw another post in the pics forum of a guys brand new 20' enclosed, with 3500lb axles... why???? Just to save a couple hundred bucks up front... and 2 or 3 years down the road when they are tweaked and the brakes have been replaced twice you end up replacing both axles completely. I've been down that road, and not making that mistake again.

But, heres the kicker... The DOT makes it rough on people that want a "proper" trailer to haul their load. Once you get a heavier axled trailer, and pulling it with a 1 ton truck, you are likely over your max GVW and now you need a CDL to drive your damn pickup and lawn trailer on the road. So guys have to buy trailers with undersized axles and max them out to be legal... 7K total weight on a 7K trailer axles is ok legally, but not right mechinacally. 7K on a 10K trailer is smart and safer, but illegal to tow with certian trucks without a CDL. It dosn't pay to be safe?

Thoughts?




Jason, in the state of KS you have up to 26,000 LBs of GVWR for a vehicle or if you towing the same amount (26,000) of the combined truck and trailer before you need a CDL.

Are you sure adding a bigger trailer would exceed that?

Diamond Dave
02-21-2010, 10:03 AM
My problem with being "over" my GVWR with the larger axles is really a non issue simply because of the gvwr of my chevy 3500HD is 20K aready.

I could be wrong but every 3500HD I have ever seen had a GVWR of 15K. You could run a 10K trailer and be fine. I know that is why you see a lot of
F450's running around here because a 550 puts most combos in CDL range.

Landscraper1
02-21-2010, 10:19 AM
Your right DD. I have never heard of a 3500HD at 20K. We have 4 20ft landscape trailers. 3 at 7K and 1 at 10k. I am having another trailer made for the 10K. The 7k do end up breaking springs and bearings.I will always buy with 5K axles now. I have either GMC3500's or GMC 4500 cabover pulling these trailers. Do the math.

3500(12,000lbs) + 20ft Trailer(10,000) = 22,000
4500(15,000lbs) + 20ft Trailer(10,000) = 24,000

Both combos under CDL and Legal (26,000)

It's a no brainer for sure, get the stronger axles:hammerhead:

Jason Rose
02-21-2010, 10:35 AM
Correct, mine is 15,000, but I tagged it at 20K because that's what the previous owner had it tagged at.

Now, depending on who you ask you get different answers. The DOT compliance enforcement guy said that they go by what the vehicle is tagged at, so mine would be 20K. But the next person says it's the number on the door jam that the DOT goes by???

His example of WRONG was if you put your GVWR of your vehicle (a half ton used in the example) on the side of your door as "6950 GVRW". He said that's incorrect and that it should be 12,000 because that's what your license plate says. Going by that I should have mine listed as 20K, but that's without the trailer....

Why in the hell can't someone just say "THIS IS HOW IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE DONE"!?!? Digging through the DOT websites you can't find much more than miles of "legal-eze" and then everyone you talk to has a different answer...

Is the weight on your TAG supposed to be the same as the trucks GVWR or the total of both truck and trailer you normally pull?

as you can tell, I'm not following the "rules". Like 95% of the other LCOs around here I don't have DOT numbers. However I'd still rather be as "legal" as I can be so if something does happen I'm not totally boned.

grassman177
02-21-2010, 10:41 AM
i have a 22ft trailer, and yes it has 5200 lb axles. technically i should have a cdl to be able to drive it here, but for now we have been "overlooked". it is stupid, as i never ever carry over 6000lbs at a time, never! we argued this point and the local officers let us slide, but that wont go forever i am sure. F them, it needs to be changed to what you will be pulling not what youa re capable of.

IN2MOWN
02-21-2010, 10:47 AM
i have a 22ft trailer, and yes it has 5200 lb axles. technically i should have a cdl to be able to drive it here, but for now we have been "overlooked". it is stupid, as i never ever carry over 6000lbs at a time, never! we argued this point and the local officers let us slide, but that wont go forever i am sure. F them, it needs to be changed to what you will be pulling not what youa re capable of.



That wont work though.

Whats to say that every day your load is going to be the same amount of weight?

All the DOT will tell you is that if you dont need that big of a trailer and if you arent hauling that much weight then why you do you need that size trailer?

Jason Rose
02-21-2010, 10:53 AM
That wont work though.

All the DOT will tell you is that if you dont need that big of a trailer and if you arent hauling that much weight then why you do you need that size trailer?

Personal preference or it's what was available...

Grassman; what size of truck are you towing with that the 5200lb axles put you over the 26001 limit?

IN2MOWN
02-21-2010, 10:57 AM
Personal preference or it's what was available...

Grassman; what size of truck are you towing with that the 5200lb axles put you over the 26001 limit?



Thats good for us but the DOT does not care what your personal preference is or what was available on the lot.

They care about the law and what the law says.

I had my run in with them 2 years ago. Got slapped with $1500.00 in fines that I finally got down to $125.00. I wasted 2 months f'ing with them in court. You cant beat them.

Landscraper1
02-21-2010, 11:10 AM
Jason, you go by the tags on the doors. We have been stopped by DOT many times. Normally they just go by whats on you registration but, I have had them look at the door tag a couple of times. And as for the GVW on your truck, that has nothing to do with the trailer. Trailer has it's own registration and plates.
Your right about getting a straight answer from the DOT. It's like banging your head against the wall.:wall

Jason Rose
02-21-2010, 11:25 AM
Jason, you go by the tags on the doors. We have been stopped by DOT many times. Normally they just go by whats on you registration but, I have had them look at the door tag a couple of times. And as for the GVW on your truck, that has nothing to do with the trailer. Trailer has it's own registration and plates.
Your right about getting a straight answer from the DOT. It's like banging your head against the wall.:wall

It would be so easy for them to just have a list of what you HAVE TO HAVE to be compliant... But they don't. It's almost like they want people to not know everything so they will always be able to find something in a stop to issue a fine for... Surely it's not a trap :laugh: :dizzy:

Myself, and every other LCO in existance around here wouldn't pass an inspection without fines... I know guys with DOT numbers, and NONE of them strap their mowers on the trailers. I see contractors all the time with tractors and skids on trailers with no chains to secure them... I can just be as cautious as I can and be "compliant" where I can and hope for the best.

IN2MOWN
02-21-2010, 11:27 AM
It would be so easy for them to just have a list of what you HAVE TO HAVE to be compliant... But they don't. It's almost like they want people to not know everything so they will always be able to find something in a stop to issue a fine for... Surely it's not a trap :laugh: :dizzy:

Myself, and every other LCO in existance around here wouldn't pass an inspection without fines... I know guys with DOT numbers, and NONE of them strap their mowers on the trailers. I see contractors all the time with tractors and skids on trailers with no chains to secure them... I can just be as cautious as I can and be "compliant" where I can and hope for the best.




Did you have the DOT audit where they come to your place of business and talk for hours...?

They will give you a checklist of everything you need to have in your truck, what you need to be in compliance, and basically everything you have to have on hand if you get pulled over.

Jason Rose
02-21-2010, 11:31 AM
Did you have the DOT audit where they come to your place of business and talk for hours...?



No, but I'm just a "solo" guy and work out of my home. I don't have DOT numbers so they wouldn't be visiting me as they don't know I exsit. Which, quite frankly, is fine with me.

Asked another guy once about the DOT numbers on his new-to-him truck, he said "ummm, well those aren't really mine, they were just on the truck when e bought it. I just peeled off all the other vinal and left the DOT numbers." HaHa... I'm sure that's legal.

IN2MOWN
02-21-2010, 11:36 AM
No, but I'm just a "solo" guy and work out of my home. I don't have DOT numbers so they wouldn't be visiting me as they don't know I exsit. Which, quite frankly, is fine with me.

Asked another guy once about the DOT numbers on his new-to-him truck, he said "ummm, well those aren't really mine, they were just on the truck when e bought it. I just peeled off all the other vinal and left the DOT numbers." HaHa... I'm sure that's legal.




Im pretty much solo also but the cities around here are cracking down on everyone. The PD's down are offering up cops to do the DOT training so they can pull over and inspect. There are certain stretches of road that they sit on. One happens to be the street I live on. :laugh:

It is free to register with them. It cost to have your trucks and trailers inspected but its not that much and its cheaper then sitting on the side of the road for 2 hours while they inspect and then having them slap with you fines and court dates.

Landscraper1
02-21-2010, 11:46 AM
I had an audit last year. Officer was there for over 2hrs. Mostly going over all the paperwork we needed and log books we needed to fill out everyday. I told him that I have a landscaping business not a trucking company and I don't own any truck over 26K GVW. After the audit, I was more confused than ever.:dizzy:

dishboy
02-21-2010, 12:02 PM
That wont work though.

Whats to say that every day your load is going to be the same amount of weight?

All the DOT will tell you is that if you dont need that big of a trailer and if you arent hauling that much weight then why you do you need that size trailer?

The DOT does not care what you have , only what you have paid to haul, I.E registration fees.

IN2MOWN
02-21-2010, 12:26 PM
I had an audit last year. Officer was there for over 2hrs. Mostly going over all the paperwork we needed and log books we needed to fill out everyday. I told him that I have a landscaping business not a trucking company and I don't own any truck over 26K GVW. After the audit, I was more confused than ever.:dizzy:




This is as simple as it gets with the DOT.

If your truck and truck/trailer weight is over 10,001 GVW and you use them commercially then you need to be DOT registered.

As far as the 26K goes that is for a CDL.

IN2MOWN
02-21-2010, 12:27 PM
The DOT does not care what you have , only what you have paid to haul, I.E registration fees.





I know...


Thats good for us but the DOT does not care what your personal preference is or what was available on the lot.

They care about the law and what the law says.

Landscraper1
02-21-2010, 12:41 PM
This is as simple as it gets with the DOT.

If your truck and truck/trailer weight is over 10,001 GVW and you use them commercially then you need to be DOT registered.

As far as the 26K goes that is for a CDL.

Yes, I know. I have had my DOT #'s for over 20yrs now. Last year I had to get new #'s because of my company name change. That is why I had the audit. Believe me, there is a lot more BS paperwork now than ever.
I mentioned the 26K because, if have a truck over that, they have you go through alot more BS. It's ridiculous:dizzy:

IN2MOWN
02-21-2010, 12:44 PM
Yes, I know. I have had my DOT #'s for over 20yrs now. Last year I had to get new #'s because of my company name change. That is why I had the audit. Believe me, there is a lot more BS paperwork now than ever.
I mentioned the 26K because, if have a truck over that, they have you go through alot more BS. It's ridiculous:dizzy:



20 years? Wow.

I didnt even know up until 2 years that lawn companies needed to be DOT registered and Ive been doing this for 15 and 10 for myself. Nobody really cared or even knew until they started to crack down.

treemover
02-21-2010, 01:46 PM
This is as simple as it gets with the DOT.

If your truck and truck/trailer weight is over 10,001 GVW and you use them commercially then you need to be DOT registered.

As far as the 26K goes that is for a CDL.

Actually on Kansas you need a cdl for any combination(truck and tralier) weight over 10,000lbs, and cdl for a straight truck over 26,000 lbs. And I believe it is the same in most states.

Landscraper1
02-21-2010, 01:50 PM
:realmad:Yeah, we didn't know until we got fined 20yrs ago.

IN2MOWN
02-21-2010, 01:51 PM
Actually on Kansas you need a cdl for any combination(truck and tralier) weight over 10,000lbs, and cdl for a straight truck over 26,000 lbs. And I believe it is the same in most states.



From the DMV:

When do I need a Kansas CDL instead of my regular Kansas Drivers License?
A Kansas CDL is required if you operate any of the following CMV's . . .
1. A vehicle with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of more than 26,000 lbs.
2. A vehicle towing a unit with a manufacturer's GVWR of more than 10,000 lbs. when the GCWR exceeds 26,000 lbs.
3. A vehicle used to . . .(a.) carry 15 or more passengers (excluding the driver), or (b.) carry (15) or less people (including the driver) when carrying children to or from school and home regularly for compensation.
4. A vehicle carrying hazardous materials in amounts requiring placarding.


I think you might be misinformed...

Landscraper1
02-21-2010, 01:55 PM
Here in Mass you need a CDL for any vehicle or combination over 26k or if your pulling any trailer over 10k. So even if your pulling a trailer with a 12k truck and the trailer is 12k, then you need a CDL.

treemover
02-21-2010, 02:11 PM
From the DMV:

When do I need a Kansas CDL instead of my regular Kansas Drivers License?
A Kansas CDL is required if you operate any of the following CMV's . . .
1. A vehicle with a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of more than 26,000 lbs.
2. A vehicle towing a unit with a manufacturer's GVWR of more than 10,000 lbs. when the GCWR exceeds 26,000 lbs.
3. A vehicle used to . . .(a.) carry 15 or more passengers (excluding the driver), or (b.) carry (15) or less people (including the driver) when carrying children to or from school and home regularly for compensation.
4. A vehicle carrying hazardous materials in amounts requiring placarding.


I think you might be misinformed...

I am not mis informed. Been over this a ton with dot. I run semis, dumps and pick ups with trailers, pretty sure i know what i am talking about and have paid tickets because of it. But good luck to you!

IN2MOWN
02-21-2010, 02:27 PM
I am not mis informed. Been over this a ton with dot. I run semis, dumps and pick ups with trailers, pretty sure i know what i am talking about and have paid tickets because of it. But good luck to you!



Ok. You might want to contact the Kansas Dept of Revenue and let them know that their website is wrong. Im sure they will be very happy to hear from you.

IN2MOWN
02-21-2010, 02:41 PM
Just in case you dont believe me...


http://www.ksrevenue.org/pdf/cdlsec1.pdf


Again, you're misinformed...

Landscraper1
02-21-2010, 02:53 PM
I am not mis informed. Been over this a ton with dot. I run semis, dumps and pick ups with trailers, pretty sure i know what i am talking about and have paid tickets because of it. But good luck to you!

Sorry buddy, I think IN2MOWN is right. What he copied from YOUR states website is pretty close to Massachusetts. I would check it out.:hammerhead:

Jason Rose
02-21-2010, 04:39 PM
So "technically" in the state of KS, any trailer with TWO 5,200 lb axles, 10,400 GVWR you would need a CDL to tow it with ANY truck.

That my friends is some striaght up BS right there... No wonder ALL the trailer places only stock trailers with 7K GVWR.

I wonder what the law *really* is on having the weight rating of yor trailer lowered to say 9K when you have 5,200 lb axles?

It should be COMBO that adds up to 26,000, period. If you look at that flow chart of the site, that's what it says, but the print reads differently. What a joke...

IN2MOWN
02-21-2010, 04:44 PM
So "technically" in the state of KS, any trailer with TWO 5,200 lb axles, 10,400 GVWR you would need a CDL to tow it with ANY truck.

That my friends is some striaght up BS right there... No wonder ALL the trailer places only stock trailers with 7K GVWR.

I wonder what the law *really* is on having the weight rating of yor trailer lowered to say 9K when you have 5,200 lb axles?

It should be COMBO that adds up to 26,000, period. If you look at that flow chart of the site, that's what it says, but the print reads differently. What a joke...



How does it read differently?

One vehicle over 26000 GVWR LBs you need a CDL

One vehicle towing something else and the combined GCWR weight is over 26,000 you need a CDL.

djagusch
02-21-2010, 05:34 PM
How does it read differently?

One vehicle over 26000 GVWR LBs you need a CDL

One vehicle towing something else and the combined GCWR weight is over 26,000 you need a CDL.

That is correct.

I run an 09 PJ trailer 22ft long with 2 5200lb axles (brakes on both) but they rated the trailer for 9900lbs to get away with reflective tape and other DOT laws. Luckily my truck is only 9200 lbs so I'm not about the 26000lbs for the CDL.

grassman177
02-21-2010, 05:42 PM
i use a f350 v10 4x4 crew cab to pull my 22 ft trailer. the reason for having such a big trailer is my mowers wont fit well on a shorter trailer, the big downsidew of diesel mowers(length).

i was stupid enough to get the mowers and then figure out the current trailer we were using was too short(18ft). so we got one that was long enough and that came standard with 5200lb axles for that length of trialer. soooooo, without being able to look into it more not being near my shop and snowed in, am i over gvw for requiring a cdl? or what. i was under the impression i actually am, but not sure.

Jason Rose
02-21-2010, 06:36 PM
How does it read differently?

One vehicle over 26000 GVWR LBs you need a CDL

One vehicle towing something else and the combined GCWR weight is over 26,000 you need a CDL.

You must have a CDL to operate:
Any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight
rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more.
A trailer with a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds
if the gross combination weight rating (GCWR) is
26,001 pounds or more.

It's worded poorly, in my opinion. See the bold line in the above quote from the page. To me it reads both ways, but I guess I'm reading it incorrectly.

Then WHY would people choose to have a 10,400 GCWR trailer scaled back to 9900? There would be no point unless you were just that close to being over with your truck/trailer combo.

Outdoors_Unlimited
02-21-2010, 06:59 PM
My understanding was any trailer 10,001 or more you needed a CDL. No matter what the combined weight is.
Posted via Mobile Device

treemover
02-21-2010, 07:06 PM
Just in case you dont believe me...


http://www.ksrevenue.org/pdf/cdlsec1.pdf


Again, you're misinformed...

Actually I would say we are both wrong. Never Really noticed it said trailer gvwr over 10k. I thought it read GCWR. Either way all my trailers are over that. From the looks your are only legal with 2 3500's or a single axle.

Why I say my bad on my part. THey need to make it more clear

Diamond Dave
02-21-2010, 07:41 PM
You must have a CDL to operate:
Any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight
rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more.
A trailer with a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds
if the gross combination weight rating (GCWR) is
26,001 pounds or more.


I would read that to mean only if that 10,000 or more trailer puts you over that 26,000 mark. So for example you should be able to tow a 14K dump trailer with a 10,400GVW F350 pickup and be fine. But hook it to a 13K dually and you would need a CDL A.

grassman177
02-21-2010, 08:18 PM
what about what i mentioned as one of you asked, who does mine fair in your opinions to the cdl debate??

Landscraper1
02-21-2010, 09:12 PM
My understanding was any trailer 10,001 or more you needed a CDL. No matter what the combined weight is.
Posted via Mobile Device

Correct. If you pull any trailer with a GVW over 10,000LB, you need a CDL

FryDaddy
02-21-2010, 09:19 PM
This may be a stupid/dumb reply, but just use one 3.5k axle & one 5.2k axle. Don't know if its even possible or what would happen, but problem solved. Well, going back to lala land.

Landscraper1
02-21-2010, 09:38 PM
This may be a stupid/dumb reply, but just use one 3.5k axle & one 5.2k axle. Don't know if its even possible or what would happen, but problem solved. Well, going back to lala land.

Trailer cannot be made that way

Landscraper1
02-21-2010, 09:41 PM
I would read that to mean only if that 10,000 or more trailer puts you over that 26,000 mark. So for example you should be able to tow a 14K dump trailer with a 10,400GVW F350 pickup and be fine. But hook it to a 13K dually and you would need a CDL A.

Wrong, No matter the situation, if your trailer is over 10,000 gvw, you need a CDL. Not even a class B would cut it. You would need a Class A CDL license.

Jason Rose
02-21-2010, 11:09 PM
Well I guess after 56 posts on this thread we have all seen the same thing, piss poor wording on behalf of the DOT website, haha. I guess when I order my new one I'll do as advised by others, and by the trailer dealer and have it registered for 9900 lbs.

Now, a side question, is the 10,000 lb rule for ANYONE pulling the trailer or is it only for those using them for a business? If it's for anyone I could name a dozen people right off the top of my head that are "illegal" and should have a class A CDL. Those are just friends and family, lol. My parents have a car hauler, horse trailer, and a dump trailer. All rated over 10K.

dwc
02-21-2010, 11:57 PM
You must have a CDL to operate:
Any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight
rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more.
A trailer with a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds
if the gross combination weight rating (GCWR) is
26,001 pounds or more.

It's worded poorly, in my opinion. See the bold line in the above quote from the page. To me it reads both ways, but I guess I'm reading it incorrectly.

Then WHY would people choose to have a 10,400 GCWR trailer scaled back to 9900? There would be no point unless you were just that close to being over with your truck/trailer combo.
If this is like Oklahoma, that is saying you have to have a CDL IF you pull your trailer with a truck with a gcwr of 26,001 or more, which would mean pulling that trailer with a Class 6 medium duty or larger.
The gcwr of my rig with a 12K gvw trailer and 1 ton is limited to my one ton's gcwr. (i think its like 17,500) Even if I were to hook onto a gooseneck trailer with a gvw of 24K I am still limited to my pickups GCVW of 17,500.
Now when you get into tractor trailers, this is not the case because they do NOT have GCWR's. This is something most DOT boys don't seem to grasp very well in DOT boy school. We have been round and round with these jerks and know of other large corporations in OK that have been also and this is the conclusion that has been made by the higher ups at DOT.

dwc
02-22-2010, 12:00 AM
also I should mention if I were to cross state lines then all this changes. I think the limit there is 10K and above. Each state sets their own rules based from the federal mandates.

IN2MOWN
02-22-2010, 08:44 AM
You must have a CDL to operate:
Any single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight
rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more.
A trailer with a GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds
if the gross combination weight rating (GCWR) is
26,001 pounds or more.

It's worded poorly, in my opinion. See the bold line in the above quote from the page. To me it reads both ways, but I guess I'm reading it incorrectly.

Then WHY would people choose to have a 10,400 GCWR trailer scaled back to 9900? There would be no point unless you were just that close to being over with your truck/trailer combo.


The part you bolded is only 1/2 the sentence though...

On the next line it clearly states about the COMBINATION weight.

IN2MOWN
02-22-2010, 08:46 AM
Actually I would say we are both wrong. Never Really noticed it said trailer gvwr over 10k. I thought it read GCWR. Either way all my trailers are over that. From the looks your are only legal with 2 3500's or a single axle.

Why I say my bad on my part. THey need to make it more clear




Whatever. Its pretty clear you have a hard time admitting you are wrong even seeing it clearly in print in front of you your face.

GravelyNut
02-22-2010, 04:15 PM
Whatever. Its pretty clear you have a hard time admitting you are wrong even seeing it clearly in print in front of you your face.

What the Feds wrote and how the states enforce it are two different things. Bad part is, the judges agree with the state as the Fed rules are GUIDELINES, not the maximum states can force on their drivers.

IN2MOWN
02-22-2010, 04:59 PM
What the Feds wrote and how the states enforce it are two different things. Bad part is, the judges agree with the state as the Fed rules are GUIDELINES, not the maximum states can force on their drivers.



Thats not really the point though.

albhb3
02-24-2010, 02:09 AM
my god stop your b!tching people is a Class A CDL that hard to get the answer is no! Get one or shut up!

Duffster
02-25-2010, 08:22 PM
Here in Mass you need a CDL for any vehicle or combination over 26k or if your pulling any trailer over 10k. So even if your pulling a trailer with a 12k truck and the trailer is 12k, then you need a CDL.

NO, you don't

I am not mis informed. Been over this a ton with dot. I run semis, dumps and pick ups with trailers, pretty sure i know what i am talking about and have paid tickets because of it. But good luck to you!

:rolleyes:

I would read that to mean only if that 10,000 or more trailer puts you over that 26,000 mark. So for example you should be able to tow a 14K dump trailer with a 10,400GVW F350 pickup and be fine. But hook it to a 13K dually and you would need a CDL A.

Exactly

i use a f350 v10 4x4 crew cab to pull my 22 ft trailer. the reason for having such a big trailer is my mowers wont fit well on a shorter trailer, the big downsidew of diesel mowers(length).

i was stupid enough to get the mowers and then figure out the current trailer we were using was too short(18ft). so we got one that was long enough and that came standard with 5200lb axles for that length of trialer. soooooo, without being able to look into it more not being near my shop and snowed in, am i over gvw for requiring a cdl? or what. i was under the impression i actually am, but not sure.

No you're not over.

Actually I would say we are both wrong. Never Really noticed it said trailer gvwr over 10k. I thought it read GCWR. Either way all my trailers are over that. From the looks your are only legal with 2 3500's or a single axle.

Why I say my bad on my part. THey need to make it more clear

It's in English.

Correct. If you pull any trailer with a GVW over 10,000LB, you need a CDL

WRONG

This may be a stupid/dumb reply, but just use one 3.5k axle & one 5.2k axle. Don't know if its even possible or what would happen, but problem solved. Well, going back to lala land.

That would be weird

Wrong, No matter the situation, if your trailer is over 10,000 gvw, you need a CDL. Not even a class B would cut it. You would need a Class A CDL license.

WRONG!

If this is like Oklahoma, that is saying you have to have a CDL IF you pull your trailer with a truck with a gcwr of 26,001 or more, which would mean pulling that trailer with a Class 6 medium duty or larger.
The gcwr of my rig with a 12K gvw trailer and 1 ton is limited to my one ton's gcwr. (i think its like 17,500) Even if I were to hook onto a gooseneck trailer with a gvw of 24K I am still limited to my pickups GCVW of 17,500.
Now when you get into tractor trailers, this is not the case because they do NOT have GCWR's. This is something most DOT boys don't seem to grasp very well in DOT boy school. We have been round and round with these jerks and know of other large corporations in OK that have been also and this is the conclusion that has been made by the higher ups at DOT.

Yes they do.

my god stop your b!tching people is a Class A CDL that hard to get the answer is no! Get one or shut up!

Kind of an ignorant comment.


This isn't that difficult. It is written in black and white in plain English. Some of you guys act like it is written in French.

Duffster
02-25-2010, 08:28 PM
Whatever. Its pretty clear you have a hard time admitting you are wrong even seeing it clearly in print in front of you your face.

Reminds me of someone else that posted in this thread. :laugh:

dwc
02-25-2010, 10:54 PM
Duffster, sounds like you got it ALL figured out. You should be a consultant to the trucking industry and quit wasting your time in the green industry.

Duffster
02-25-2010, 11:53 PM
Duffster, sounds like you got it ALL figured out. .

Nope not at all, but I can read! ;)

stroker51
02-28-2010, 11:39 PM
Ok, I went over all this crap in my DOT audit a few years back. At the shop I had my F250 diesel, like 8800 gvw, tagged for 20k, to cover truck and trailer load (as per kansas law, since before DOT enforcement, truck tag must cover truck trailer and load) my old 16' 7k lbs mow trailer, 14' gooseneck 14k dump trailer, and the auditer is the head DOT guy for northeast kansas, he showed me very clearly, where on the flow chart, that I keep in my truck just to present if I ever get hassled over it, where CDL is NOT required until GCVWR is 26,001 or more......so Jason, Grassman, straight from the top when I dealt with them, we do not need CDL. Now, my 3/4 ton pickup with a tandem dually gooseneck, 20k lbs trailer, puts me into needing a class A. The problems everybody has with DOT I dont think are so much with the wording of the law, but the huge lack of uniformity from officer to officer, I got stopped last summer, and actually knew the trooper, so I was asking him a few questions about what to expect and so on, he said he had nothing good to tell me other than med card, fire extinguisher and triagles. Other than that it will vary from officer to officer, since there is no uniform standard of enforcement

Jason Rose
03-01-2010, 12:16 AM
Well there's another wrench in the basket...

You need the TRUCK tagged at what the trucks GVWR plus the trailers GVWR combined. Or at least for the largest trailer you have if you have more than one you pull with that truck...

That's something I've heard debated as well, and forgot to ask. So that means that the "compliance and saftey" guy that spoke to us the other day wasn't right about that. But then again he was talking in circles about the tag weight versus the actual GVWR of the truck. He said, in his example, that a 1/2 ton truck is tagged 12M (can a 1/2 ton haul 12,000 lbs??) but a 1 ton needed to be tagged no less than it's GVWR rating. For my truck that would actually be 15M.

I'm not arguing, I'm just repeating the "logic" we were being given. I guess technically my 1 ton should be tagged and DOT registered at 26,000 then, 1 pound under the limit... So there would never be any argument that I was over with the 15K truck +10K trailer.

And who decided that both "M" and "K" are accepted shorthand for "1,000"?

stroker51
03-01-2010, 10:55 AM
haha, thats crazy there isn't a uniform enforcement policy, or set of rules for that matter for us. I know in Kansas the lawn guys had to be an afterthought. What the head cheese in charge told us was the the tag on the truck had to cover actual weight....which was weird because everything else goes off possible weight. I run 20m's on all my regular work trucks, just because with a truck, trailer, skid, mini ex, even a trailer full of mowers, it dont take long to hit 20k. What a mess this is, I'm glad i'm not the only one wishing there was a common standard for them all to follow. At least I'm in good company.

loupiscopolandscaping
03-01-2010, 01:25 PM
i have an 18ft with 3,500 axles...for a 20ft plus id agree 5,200 is a safe number