View Full Version : Hardscaping

02-13-2000, 01:37 AM
Just a quick survey here. I do alot of public works jobs; brick paving jobs start out around $6.50 per square foot to $13.00 per square foot. Retaining wall are about $30.00 per face foot. These are bid jobs that have public openings, bonding and full insurance needed. We see some crazie prices brick pavers going for $4.50 per foot and walls at $20.00 per foot.<p>What would you charge for say 1300 sq. ft. pavers with base per sq. ft. And 300face ft. retaining wall per face ft.<br><p>----------<br>paul<br>

02-13-2000, 04:53 PM
Paul, In my area, SE Ma. the brick work goes for 8.50-13.00/sq.ft. and I got a quote from a sub for a wall at $43.00/face/ft.<br>chris

02-13-2000, 07:40 PM
You guy's need to think about what you are actually selling. When you try to sell hardscapes by the square foot you are going to lose money, we are in this business of selling labor. Square footage may give you a starting point, but I wouldn't rely on it for the final figures. Every job is different, the soil structure is different and will have to be addressed differently for each job. The terrain around the job is going to be different in every job and will require different methods of working on each site. I don't have to tell you everything that you will run into you already know how no 2 jobs are the same, thus trying to price hardscapes by the square footage will only lead to lost money.<br>Matt

02-13-2000, 09:09 PM
Matt I agree would like to just price out as a per-job bid, But bids are quoted by the bid sheet often a year before to job is ready at a per sq. ft. price. We can get extras as to base base is quoted at 6&quot; but if a problem happens we can get more money. <p>----------<br>paul<br>

02-17-2000, 12:20 AM
I just read an article in Lawn and Landscape mag.(the current issue on-line) about pavers. One contractor estimated that the paver cost makes up 12 - 15% of the total price bid. That seems about right for straight-forward residential work. Of course, with those large jobs that you bid, those numbers may have to be adjusted. Unless those really low priced guys are doing mechanical installs, seems like their bottom line will take them out of the game soon enough to leave ample room for you. What length warranty on the install do you (and your competition) offer? That's worth something. <p>----------<br>Lanelle<br>

02-17-2000, 12:46 AM
Lanelle,<br>No, all hand labor. Warranty is for one year by the job specs.. Have only had one failure in ten years (my own drive, too many trucks parked on it for the 8&quot; base). 99% of the bricks are holland stone, easy to install, no 3' walks or anything hard. Most times we approach the job like a flat drive 20'x50' square or what ever shape the picnic area is.<br>My experenice the biggest problem is timing get the equipment,men and all matierial to job site. For me it's not too bad,semis of stone, sand and pavers all one day before the crews arrive, residential jobs are harder no room for all this, more time in moving material on site and stockpileing, removing dirt and hualing.<br><p>----------<br>paul<br>

02-17-2000, 01:10 AM
I'm surprised that the specifier can be satisfied with one year. In this area most warranties are 2-5 years, I think. I know that Belgard requires their authorized contractors to give 5 yr. I agree that timing of materials is tough to co-ordinate. I can't brag that my guys have that under control. I'm always the one to ask 'Why did this take so long?' At the ICPI certification seminar, a video was shown of a crew (I think from your area) doing a resid. driveway and they had their deliveries set up for very specific times so the base went in just as the excavation was finished. The sand followed the last gravel truck by a certain amount of time and they had minimal materials stockpiling and handling. I just don't know many truckers to be quite that accommadating, but it made a great video.<br>Also, I'd like to know more about the base-maker that you mentioned using for walls. I haven't seen it. What powers the blade? How deep are the rails? What are the rails made of? <p>----------<br>Lanelle<br>

02-17-2000, 03:31 AM
Lanelle,<br>The base maker has 3&quot;x 3/16&quot;x10' cold rolled rails and it's hand powered, one man pulls it. The rails are set on 24&quot; or 36&quot; round concrete stakes spaced 5'oc,a sq. tube with two 9/16 set screws holds them in place, the blade is adjustable for depth of cut and chamber, we use a laser to set the stakes but they don't have to be perfect, the tube has about 2&quot; of adjustment built in. Now just level up the rail and go. <p>When I did home owners we gave a 5 year warrantee, never had a call back so I just don't worry about it anymore.<p>----------<br>paul<br>

02-18-2000, 12:00 AM
Seems that your base maker is really sturdy and takes out the headache of leveling up the base. Is it available from a contractors' supply house or from a wall block distributor? We probably don't do enough segmental walls to justify the cost but I'm still interested. Cutting down the labor would make us more competitive and then we'd probably be more enthusiastic (sp?, it's too late for my internal spellchecker to be perfect)about bidding the commercial jobs that do come our way. Which wall products do you use? We've used Keystone, Anchor and SelectWall. The VersaLok distributor is too far away to use for smallish jobs. Also use some of the smaller dimension blocks for residential jobs but I like the look of natural stone better for many sites.<p>----------<br>Lanelle<br>

02-19-2000, 12:09 AM
I must be spoiled on warranties. In my part of the world (NE Wisconsin), at three years my warranty is better than all of my competition. Everyone here only offers 1 year. But we also don't get the prices garnered elsewhere. Not as much disposable income here.

02-20-2000, 01:42 AM
We use Unilock, Pisa-I and Pisa-II, Versa-lok, Allen Block and Keystone. I hope to up grade our web site soon need more pictures,(have to wait untill some snow melts 11&quot; on the ground now. The base maker is called Speed-base, I got it thru my Allen block distributor, if they don't carry it e-mail me I'll check my office for the manufactures #. I too like natural stone the best but people don't want to pay for the cost unless they need the weight like in rivers or lakes. What do you think of the wall we put in on the Fox river thats on my web page? <p><p>----------<br>paul<br>

02-20-2000, 02:12 AM
The storm was a wash out for us. Sit and watch the ice hit the warm pavement for a few hours. Oh well, we've had more snow billing this year than last. The Fox River project is really nice looking. Definitely not for the faint of heart. I've never worked on a river project. What did you use for the base there? We don't get much limestone, locally anymore, so it's definitely an upscale stone for us. Carved limestone is somewhat in demand here for formal projects. Most of the natural stone we use is from PA. Various forms of fieldstone and bluestone are the most popular.

02-20-2000, 02:52 AM
Part of the wall sits on the natural bed of the river other places we had to pour a base of concrete 2' thick x 3' wide with 2 #5 rebar. The best part was the engineering firm wanted us to glue the stone togther! I had to call them up and re engineer the anchor system for them! Rivers are easy as long as the water is moving. Water washed the slit down stream, 99% of the time you have a good base to work with gravel or bed rock, lakes are harder you can't tell what the base is like until you bore it or excavate. No one went in the river and we didn't lose any stone. We use about 2000 ton of limestone each year and 1000 tons of granite boulders. I like the limestone the best it's much more formal and versatile plus a good crew(3 men) can istall a truckload in a day. Boulders can take a bit longer to build and in rivers I have a hard time informing landscape architects to use the larger stone (36&quot; and above) all they seem to want is 18&quot;-24&quot; <p>----------<br>paul<p>

06-21-2006, 09:37 PM
Is face per foot on a retaining wall the same as per square foot for like flagstone on a patio?

DVS Hardscaper
06-21-2006, 10:20 PM
We do NOT unit price ANYTHING.

All jobs are priced on a per job basis. Which involves ALL materials - right down to the quantity of cans of marking paint. Every minute of labor affiliated with the job is factored in, including travel time to and from, per employee. Equipment is another item factored in.

Our paver installs (which is 80% of our sales) are no less than $15.00 / SF. Small jobs such as small walks and small patios (450 SF and under) can go as high as $27 - $30 / SF. By the time mobilization fees are factored in, material delivery fees, etc etc - IT ALL ADDS UP!