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View Full Version : Fixture Help Please


INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
03-01-2010, 11:07 AM
I have a demanding client (in a good way) who is looking for something new and stellar to light her outdoor kitchen / grill area.

She has asked for "pop up" fixtures, but I am sure there are none like this available.

I know about the various BBQ fixtures from Vista, Focus, etc. Auroralight dropped their line of table mount fixtures...

Anything out there I don't know about? Any custom build ideas you would care to share with me? I am a bit stuck and out of ideas on this one.

Thanks.

RLI Electric
03-01-2010, 11:30 AM
I have seen in magazines some high end outdoor rooms with pop up tv's. Something like that should work. A small hyrdraulic lift or something like a JenAir pop up vent hood. They make receptacles for indoor kitchens that is something, with a bit of Yankee ingenuity, that may be able to work in this situation. Just a thought. Fun clients are the ones with the guts (and cash) to serve as a beta project. Come to think of it, I bet Tommy has played with this type of scenario before and if not I bet he has thought about it.

JoeyD
03-01-2010, 12:37 PM
http://www.uniquelighting.com/product_pages/Hubble.htm

Pro-Scapes
03-01-2010, 01:19 PM
Hubble coupled with an LED powered mr16 path seems like it would fit your style. Too bad avalability is so limited.

I assume there is no structure in which to downlight from ? I have a new MR16 niche light here that I am going to be using for just this type of application. Using 4 with synergy led's from ushio as soon as construction on the area is complete (and if we can get this rain to stop)

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
03-01-2010, 02:04 PM
Hubble coupled with an LED powered mr16 path seems like it would fit your style. No not really... the thought of having a traditional path light, extending up above the counter top is not that visually appealing. Also the client would then be troubled to install, adjust, remove and store the fixtures. This is not really all that convenient for them.

Too bad availability is so limited. No not really.... MR16 Pathlights are gaining popularity and are easily sourced. Winnona, Troy CSL, SPJ, TRAA Light, Sundown Designs, Megabay all have versions (SPJ's/TRAA is probably the closest in form, appearance and function to those that Billy is referring to) There are also two other manufacturers developing lines of MR16 Pathlights that I know of.

I assume there is no structure in which to downlight from ? I have a new MR16 niche light here that I am going to be using for just this type of application. Using 4 with synergy led's from ushio as soon as construction on the area is complete (and if we can get this rain to stop) This is a possibility, and is being considered. Lots of options in MR16 fixtures that could be hidden in the soffit etc. I just want to cover all surface mount / custom retractable options before going there.

Best of luck with those Synergy LED MR16 lamps. Just be sure that your new fixture will accept them as they are not true ANSI MR16 shape and size. Also be sure that your new fixture is totally sealed as the Synergy lamps do not like moist or humid environments. Also I would check in regarding availability and future availability of the Synergy lamps. I think Ushio's marketing license with IMS (Illumination Management Services) expires soon and IMS was recently purchased by Cooper. Will Cooper renew this with Ushio? Maybe.

extlights
03-01-2010, 02:55 PM
I was at a home that had an outdoor kitchen/grilling area which had retractable bollards installed. If I remember right, they had 2 louvered bollards not far from the prep areas and 4 directional bollards with mr-16's. My guess is that a lot of the kitchen was designed around the fixtures because they actually blended quite well while they were up and weren't the eyesore that I thought they would be. When they were up my quess is that they were out about 20-24" and maybe 4-5" in diameter.

Not sure that it would be anything I would do, but for this particular application it worked quite nicely.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
03-01-2010, 03:10 PM
Dave, I assume that was a full custom installation? How did the fixtures raise/lower?

extlights
03-01-2010, 03:56 PM
It was a full custom installation. The fixtures were on switches just inside the door going out to the patio/kitchen area. They had 2 seperate switches for the bollards...1 for the louvered, and 1 for the directionals. I do know that they had to brace these fixtures because they were originally meant to be inground retractable bollards. It was a very unique application and the only time I've ever seen anything like it. I definately gave props to the installer and designer for thinking outside the box on that one.

Pro-Scapes
03-01-2010, 04:04 PM
Hubble coupled with an LED powered mr16 path seems like it would fit your style. No not really... the thought of having a traditional path light, extending up above the counter top is not that visually appealing. Also the client would then be troubled to install, adjust, remove and store the fixtures. This is not really all that convenient for them.

Too bad availability is so limited. No not really.... MR16 Pathlights are gaining popularity and are easily sourced. Winnona, Troy CSL, SPJ, TRAA Light, Sundown Designs, Megabay all have versions (SPJ's/TRAA is probably the closest in form, appearance and function to those that Billy is referring to) There are also two other manufacturers developing lines of MR16 Pathlights that I know of.

I assume there is no structure in which to downlight from ? I have a new MR16 niche light here that I am going to be using for just this type of application. Using 4 with synergy led's from ushio as soon as construction on the area is complete (and if we can get this rain to stop) This is a possibility, and is being considered. Lots of options in MR16 fixtures that could be hidden in the soffit etc. I just want to cover all surface mount / custom retractable options before going there.

Best of luck with those Synergy LED MR16 lamps. Just be sure that your new fixture will accept them as they are not true ANSI MR16 shape and size. Also be sure that your new fixture is totally sealed as the Synergy lamps do not like moist or humid environments. Also I would check in regarding availability and future availability of the Synergy lamps. I think Ushio's marketing license with IMS (Illumination Management Services) expires soon and IMS was recently purchased by Cooper. Will Cooper renew this with Ushio? Maybe.

Im not worried about cooper buying IMS. I already have the lamps here so that isnt an issue. I needed something dimmable that held an acceptable color and the ushio fits just fine in the niche fixtures I have selected. If I remember you had not only availability issues but also performance issues with your LED's too. Just ask Joey :laugh:

I came across another interesting LED solution that has the same specs as another one that is touted on these boards. More to come on that so stay tuned. In fact it it likely the same chip-set in a slightly modified housing.

I could fabricate a retractable bollard then just do a matching top to it (ie granite) so it fits flush with the counter top. You would need custom framing below to accept the lenght of the fixture then construct a frame with small lift system. It would really depend how high you would want to go. You have mentioned this project before and not wanting to use BBQ lights. Personally I have 3 fixtures hitting my bbq from above to help eliminate shadowing over the cooking surface

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
03-01-2010, 04:17 PM
Im not worried about cooper buying IMS. I already have the lamps here so that isnt an issue. I needed something dimmable that held an acceptable color and the ushio fits just fine in the niche fixtures I have selected. If I remember you had not only availability issues but also performance issues with your LED's too. Just ask Joey :laugh:


Hey Billy, your information is WAY WAY out of date. I haven't been selling the lamps you are referring to for over a year now. I have engineered and built my own line of LED lamps and these have been available on the market since July 2009. These lamps have a lot of technology built in that none of the others on the market offer, but I don't expect you are too interested to be honest.

As for Joey and Unique lighting, they have not seen nor tested my line of LED lamps (yet).

Pro-Scapes
03-01-2010, 04:40 PM
James I do think email is the proper venue for this discussion.

No, not all of my info is out of date. Some info I have not shared openly comes to me just last week. Via DHL no less :)

JoeyD
03-01-2010, 04:43 PM
Hey Billy, your information is WAY WAY out of date. I haven't been selling the lamps you are referring to for over a year now. I have engineered and built my own line of LED lamps and these have been available on the market since July 2009. These lamps have a lot of technology built in that none of the others on the market offer, but I don't expect you are too interested to be honest.

As for Joey and Unique lighting, they have not seen nor tested my line of LED lamps (yet).

I believe Billy was reffering to the Kumho's as we have not tested the Lamps you have now....

Pro-Scapes
03-01-2010, 04:44 PM
I believe Billy was reffering to the Kumho's as we have not tested the Lamps you have now....

Still... that was the latest and greatest according to him at the time. Hows the Koolaid taste ?:laugh::laugh:

JoeyD
03-01-2010, 04:45 PM
Still... that was the latest and greatest according to him at the time. Hows the Koolaid taste ?:laugh::laugh:

gosh you are fast.........lol........

Pro-Scapes
03-01-2010, 04:51 PM
I was going to comment but thought otherwise. Might be time to vanish again for a bit. Too much drama. Enjoy the Koolaid.

JoeyD
03-01-2010, 04:59 PM
oh comeon....we need you around here.......we all have differences and some of us may not agree with eachother all the time but thats just the way it is.

As for the LED lamps we believed the Kumho was the best option at the time and it turned out to not be what we expected. We move on. Its not the first or last time we have believed in a vendors product and it not live up to expectations. We dont blame James for the problems nor did we sell so many that it really hurt us or any of our customers. LED is hit and miss right now.

Pro-Scapes
03-01-2010, 05:17 PM
LED is hit and miss right now.

Words of Wisdom

JoeyD
03-01-2010, 05:35 PM
Words of experience is more like it....lol

indylights
03-01-2010, 07:52 PM
I was going to comment but thought otherwise. Might be time to vanish again for a bit. Too much drama. Enjoy the Koolaid.

Too much drama that 9 times out of 10 you either start or add to with all the negative vibes you send out. If you have a problem with James or anyone else, deal with it in private, don't keep taking shots on this forum. I'm assuming you can't really be that bitter of a person in real life, but you certainly come across that way in the majority of your posts.

Scott Maloney
Sunflower Landscapes

irrig8r
03-01-2010, 08:57 PM
Nice to hear another point of view Scott.

I've been guilty of participating in petty arguments here once or twice in the past.

These days I think it looks unprofessional and I think personal gripes are best dealt with in private.

Pro-Scapes
03-01-2010, 09:18 PM
Too much drama that 9 times out of 10 you either start or add to with all the negative vibes you send out. If you have a problem with James or anyone else, deal with it in private, don't keep taking shots on this forum. I'm assuming you can't really be that bitter of a person in real life, but you certainly come across that way in the majority of your posts.

Scott Maloney
Sunflower Landscapes

Thats funny. Maybe your right but then again if you notice I had a legitimate reply to his request the first time. Then the inside drama came out because there was a need to disect my reply to him.

End of discussion. end of Drama. James and I worked this out via email and all is good and well. Right James???

No worries sorry for the negative Vibes you get from me Scott. I would like to feel that alot of my posts are in fact helpful to others and or at least informative. Seems like you have the wrong impression of me. could it be because of the article I wrote ? I know you disagreed with my simplifying things a bit for people.

indylights
03-01-2010, 11:12 PM
I didn't read your article on the transformers. I made no comments on it, the only comment I gave about dumbing anything down was my comment to Steve Parrot that I wouldn't dumb his article down.

I do not know you, and maybe some guys do find your posts very informative. However, in my opinion, a lot of your posts do have a negative, petty, or vindictive tone to them. Again, hopefully that's not a representation of how you are in person, but you can come off that way in some of your posts. As you like to say, "end of discussion". (Which by the way telling an adult "end of discussion" is pretty condescending).

Scott Maloney
Sunflower Landscapes

indylights
03-01-2010, 11:18 PM
Im not worried about cooper buying IMS. I already have the lamps here so that isnt an issue. I needed something dimmable that held an acceptable color and the ushio fits just fine in the niche fixtures I have selected. If I remember you had not only availability issues but also performance issues with your LED's too. Just ask Joey :laugh:

I came across another interesting LED solution that has the same specs as another one that is touted on these boards. More to come on that so stay tuned. In fact it it likely the same chip-set in a slightly modified housing.

I could fabricate a retractable bollard then just do a matching top to it (ie granite) so it fits flush with the counter top. You would need custom framing below to accept the lenght of the fixture then construct a frame with small lift system. It would really depend how high you would want to go. You have mentioned this project before and not wanting to use BBQ lights. Personally I have 3 fixtures hitting my bbq from above to help eliminate shadowing over the cooking surface

In light of some of your comments regarding other people and the transformers they are developing, I hope you are in no way involved in the development or sale of that new LED solution. That would be awfully hypocritical, and I know you want to stay consistent in your beliefs.

Scott Maloney
Sunflower Landscapes

Pro-Scapes
03-02-2010, 10:14 AM
Scott Thanks for your concearn.

No, I am not involved with the new LED solution. I have tried and installed a few LED lamps especially at my own home and a few select clients home who did not mind being a test bed for them. These were retrofits so we can always go back to halogens.

I have not been consulted with nor had a hand in any LED programs other than reviewing a few samples here and there when asked. I am however making sure I use well sealed fixtures that can handle a slightly larger retrofit format when I build my systems to make sure they will be forward compatible to the best of my ability.

Really Scott. You do have the wrong impression of me. Ask anyone who has met me personally. Being Hearing impaired the words sometimes come out wrong.

worx
03-02-2010, 10:42 AM
I can attest to Billy's out-going personality. Great guy to spend time with, and my wife and I, as well as others from this board have done just that. Passionate about his work and a very personable person. Typing a few words on an open forum is not a good barometer for judging one's character.

Billy you never text anymore now that I have texting.....why is this?

irrig8r
03-02-2010, 01:03 PM
I've never met Billy personally, but despite any wrong impressions we've ever had over this medium (where not seeing the grin on the other guys face sometimes words are misunderstood), I believe him to be a decent, stand-up guy.... and I've always appreciated his willingness to share his knowledge, opinions and experience.

NightScenes
03-02-2010, 07:48 PM
Yeah, Billy's alright I guess (wink, wink). Fishing sucked in the D.R. Billy. I'm glad we caught those tuna the week before!!