Trying to break into the Game!!!

[dternos]

Hello everyone. This past winter I began a small Snow Plowing operation, Handling mainly residential drives, with just one commercial account. I felt very fortunate to land just over 70 drives to go with the Hotel parking lot. Although I learned a lesson on pricing this year I believe next year can become extremely profitable for me. This is not my full time job. I am also a mail carrier, which gives me a great "in" with prospective clients (I carry mail in a very wealthy area of NorthEast Ohio) Anyway to the point....many of my Snow Account have asked if I would also provide Lawncare Service for them. I want to take this on, but know very little of the industry. Any advise on contracts, how to charge(by lawn, by hour?????) Equipment to have and on and on...... Any advise would be of help. Thank you and Great luck to all with this up coming season. :usflag:

[Raymond S.]

70 accounts, first year, and you're a mail carrier? I don't see how you could even attempt this. My only advice would be raise your prices to a level that most of your clients won't want your service. Then if you have a few that still want to pay a premium, find a way to educate yourself and take them on. It will prove to be profitable for you and if it ends up being something you like then you have a few decent customers and you can build from there. I'm not sure about the demographics where you're from but if you get 70 customers in your first year it's usually a good sign that your prices are not on par w/ everyone else.

[rlee]

I totally disagree.

70 clients the first year is great! Its only driveways. Its not like he has 70 commercial accounts that take 2 hours each. Raising his prices to lose customers is about the worst advise Ive ever heard. He didt say that every customer wants lawn service from him. But if he has a substantial amount that want the service, GREAT for him!

As far as equipment. Start small, get what you can afford and dont take loans. Start with a decent used walkbehind, 2 trimmers, 2 blowers and your various hand tools. Then slowly build from there depending on what your customers want. But dont raise prices to dump customers. thats just friggin bad advise!

[Raymond S.]

Although I learned a lesson on pricing this year
This is not my full time job. I am also a mail carrier
I want to take this on, but know very little of the industry.

All these are reasons to believe he gained 70 customers by charging too little. Let me ask you a question. Say he averages just 10 min. per drive. That's 11 1/2 hours every time it storms. Could you do that and deliver mail when you're done?How in the world is a mail carrier going to provide lawn care services for even a fraction of these? Can it be done?...sure. Can the level of service be that of which people in "a very wealthy area of NorthEast Ohio" expect to get? Most likely no. I'm not saying he should not attempt it. I'm saying if he is in a wealthy area, charge a premium and take a few clients. Don't weed out your snowplow clients if he's already getting the job done. Just don't make the mistake of thinking you can service these 70 clients all summer long like he did w/ the snow. Unlike snow, grass grows all season, and it can be a long one trying to manage a full time job and even 1/2 of these 70 accounts.

And yes you are right. He did not say all 70 accounts wanted his services. If it's 10, great. If it's 50, no way it's gonna happen.

[dternos]

Thanks for bits of advise. Some seem concerned or skeptical on how 70 drives get handled as well as a full time job. I did a bunch of research before even attempting this. Made sure I knew exactly what to charge in order to carry the proper insurance, both liablility and workers comp. I run two 2500 silveradoes, both with 7 1/2 foot myers plows. I utilies all my vacation time in the winter months to maximise my time in one of the trucks, and also my profit. All drives are extremely close proximity, and average drive takes 7.5 minutes. All together route takes those two trucks 4-5 hours depending on severity of conditions. So with good help is how I do it, and you have to pay good help!!!! Can't do that by lowballing!!! My intent is to start a viable business to provide a solid second income for my family. The Post Office provides the perfect opportunity for me to come face to face with many people daily. I look at it as an opportunity and nothing more. This web site, along with some of your's advise is the beginning of my research into whether or not I can further my venture into lawncare as well. Thanks for all advise!!!

[dternos]

and I have to agree that pricing myself outta the neighborhood would be the wrong thing to do. Yes, I can see trying to weed out the shoe clerks so to speak, keeping only the best of customers to maximise profit, but in a down economy staying competitive, but not cheap has got to be the key!! Even in the wealthiest of neighborhoods we are seeing cutbacks, hell, they are there for a reason, and its not frivolous spending in most cases. Don't I control how many clients I take on? If I find myself overworked to the point I cannot provide the service and quality they are paying for I can politely tell them so, thank them for the opportunity and refer them one of you...................

[rlee]

exactly, not taking on too much is key. If you can manage a few workers thats awesome. I know that its gonna be me and a partner (if I can get him to move up there). Other than that, I am going to have my father in law subbing if he can to do estimates. I will be doing this full time though. Managing a lawn service while being a mail carrier is going to be a tough gig. If you plan on having a foreman doing the managing part most of the time, expect to be paying him well. Ive always heard that postal work has great pay and bennies, not to mention the pension. At some point you are probably going to have to decide which profession is better for you and your family, because if you arent a scrub and you are getting a good amount of great clients, it can really take off for you.

just my .02

[dternos]

Ahhhhh Postal Work.....I can't complain abit. For what we do the pay is very good, and benifits are there as well. Fact is tho, there is a ceiling on what you can make, and that 's something I have never been able to settle into. That is why I am trying to use it as a tool so to speak. I doubt that lawnCare and Snow Removal will ever replace what I have, but the way I see it, if I can keep it going till I'm able to retire (and I will retire from USPS young) then it can be a great gig for a mid to late forties guy. At that point maybe my sons can work it a bit if they like, who knows????? Keep it in perspective. For now I'm gonna try and close on a few of these yards and figure out what mowers and equip are best suited for my attack!!!!!! Hey are Gravely mowers thought highly of?????

[rlee]

Ive only used one and I hated it. My favorite has been scag, wright standers, and toro.
Definately go with floating deck. What size properties are you looking at?

[rlee]

I just got my first exmarks...sort of...I havent picked them up yet. Ive heard so many raves about them but Ill have to see for myself. I personally love scags.

[dternos]

property sizes all 1/4 to an acre. You just got me off gravely!!!! I have heard great things about exmark. Have a friend with larger operation and thats what he likes to use. There is so much info out here and brands and sizes and specs to choose from it can be overwhelming!

[rlee]

Do you have gates to go through, if so go with a 32 or 36. But if you dont have gates, that size property......48" would be a good starter mower. Also, anything under an acre, dont buy a ztr....dont be one of those guys.

[SchnabelLawnCare]

I have a Scag 36" Walk Behind mower. Very reliable, and starts right up. Leaves very professional stripes and pulls straight. Interested? Perfect for gates. I'm in Indianapolis, but I can help with delivery.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=307375

[dternos]

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[dternos]

Yes I would be. You can email pics to dmt_1975@yahoo.com. Please include all info you can. Both price and condition of my first mower have to right for me to get this thing off the ground, or else I will fail. Having said that, ya let's see what's up. Please let me know.....shoot me an émail
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[SchnabelLawnCare]

Yes I would be. You can email pics to dmt_1975@yahoo.com. Please include all info you can. Both price and condition of my first mower have to right for me to get this thing off the ground, or else I will fail. Having said that, ya let's see what's up. Please let me know.....shoot me an émail
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Email sent. Perfect start up mower. Very low hours.

[dternos]

Email sent. Perfect start up mower. Very low hours.
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[dternos]

Thanks I ll take a look, it hasn't come thru yet. I should get it immediatly as aLl emails come to my phone. If you left any contact info I will get in touch either way. Thanks
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[dternos]

rlee, can you give me a rule of thumb for how to bill out mulch jobs. I can purchase for 15-20 a yrd.....do I need to find better price....to profit...I've heard charges from 50-70 a yrd delivered and layed down but that's a broad range it seems?
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[dternos]

Oh and hey schnabel.....I never got that email. Dmt_1975@yahoo.com
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[scagrider22]

Im not sure exactly where in N.E. Ohio your in but if your close to Medina and looking for a new eXmark Eversharp on rt. 18 has a brand new 52" turf tracer hp for $4900 thats a great deal and its one of the best cutting mowers made. And I wouldnt worry to much about gates not many people in our area have them unless your in the hood. As for the mulch pricing $50-70 is a low price unless its a big mulch job and you have a blower.

[rlee]

yeah, that a bit low for small bed jobs. figure cost of mulch, drive time $1x miles, ease of access to the beds and man hours and how much profit you want. Make sure you dont but a mower that doesnt have a floating deck. People get a little irritated when you scalp their lawn.

[dternos]

Damn I hope I can get more for mulching then 50-70!!!!! Believe me I am going to try......What do you consider big though....most these homes prob between 10-15 yrds.

[dternos]

Oh and this site and you guys are really coming thru in the clutch.......Ive been having a great time learning and talking about this stuff on here. Thanks a million. Yea the more I learn, I believe I am settling in on exmark vs Scag.....I reviewed each of my prospective homes and gates are a non issue. I am really confused on walk behind vs rider????? If I get enough work would it be benificial to have 1 of each. I cannot see myself with more work than two mowers, but if I only have enough work for one.....then would I be better off with rider or walk behind with scully...... Wow, I cant wait to figure all this out then teach somebody else!!!!! Like my SON!!!!

[rlee]

If you are interested, I am selling an exmark turf tracer. give me a call, Ill pm me your number. Not sure what you are looking to spend but Ill give you a heck of a deal.

[rlee]

ok, you have your pm's turned off. Pm me and Ill reply my number.

[rlee]

I called your phone and left a message.

[ChunkyBeaver]

How did you manage to do 70 driveways and a hotel and still work your mail route??

[dternos]

How did you manage to do 70 driveways and a hotel and still work your mail route??
Well chunky us postal dudes get about 5 weeks off a year, that coupled with normal days off, a few Gov holidays, a few sleepness nights and some good help doesn't hurt either. Looking to expand a little actually, want 100 next year, but that's about as far as I will go with it.
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[knox gsl]

I've been on my own solo for nearly 2 years and believe the best mower for a new bus. would be a 48" hydro walkbehind, exmark or scag both great machines. I have a 52" walkbehind and 60" ZTR and the walkbehind will run cicles around the ZTR in most small to medium yards with better cut, wished i would have saved my money on the ZTR. Just make sure to get one with a floating deck and mulch kit.

[rlee]

I forgot all about this thread. The exmark buy didnt work out for me. Did you end up getting into this season? NY is getting very expensive, trying to start up. Ive got pretty much everything I need. I will definately have to upgrade mowers within 2 seasons.