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View Full Version : F350, 450, 550, or GMC 3500, 4500?! Yikes!


Ecoscapes
03-06-2010, 11:20 AM
OK finally ready for a dump truck, been doing dump trailers for years but its time to consolidate no more multiple trips, equipment, materials etc.. Tried a GMC 5500, it was big, good turning radius but its a tank, if I had a little truck to drive around it'd be alright but... Leaning towards a 07, 08, GMC 3500 diesel dump but also looking at Ford 350 and 450, any one have experience with any of these trucks? Reviews? Big difference between 350/450? Haul stone quite a bit, I have a Dodge 3/4 ton and feel like I'm on the edge with the weight all the time, plus just did ball bearings @ 50000 miles and don't trust Dodge anymore! Like cummins but the rest of the truck... F450 little more tow and payload more reassuring, but worse mpg worth a little more heavy duty?
Thanks for any reviews or info!

doubleedge
03-06-2010, 12:31 PM
What will the avg combined weight of your trailer and payload be? If you are towing a skid and hauling heavy material at the same time, an f450 or f550 would be ideal. There probably wouldn't be much of a fuel economy difference between a loaded f350 and a f450.

Ecoscapes
03-06-2010, 12:45 PM
Well I'm looking into a mini excavator, (Kubota kx121 about 5 ton) So I'd be hauling that around quite a bit, hilly, dirt roads, the truck wouldn't have to be loaded with material while towing, maybe once and a while. Mostly would tow the equipment to job site, then go get materials, 3-5 yrds from drainage rock to topsoil. Big payload difference between F350/450?

Gravel Rat
03-06-2010, 01:51 PM
There is a big difference between a F-350 and F-450/550. I don't know what year range your looking at brandnew or used ?

A F-450/550 is usually maxed out with 7000lbs payload with a dump body a F-550 with a 19,000lb gvw has the exact same brakes as a F-450 with the F550.

Drain rock is heavy you are looking at 2900lbs per yard a F-450/550 will carry 2.5 yards and you will be maxed out. Regular gravel you are looking at 2400lbs per yard so 3 yards will be max.

A F-350 or 1 ton dump 2 yards is max payload and your over loaded most 1 ton dumps are maxed out at 4000lbs I think legal payload is 3500-4000lbs so two yards of gravel your 1000lbs over weight.

ProTouch Groundscapes
03-06-2010, 05:00 PM
gravel rat speaks legally, if you take a closer look at the contractors who run those trucks and see whats in the bed, your more likely to see them running with 10-12K in the beds. not saying its right or wrong, just what happens.

tnmtn
03-06-2010, 07:15 PM
i would say you are getting into a world where you won't find the perfect truck. there will be sacrifices which ever way you go. that being said i wouldn't waste time even considering a 1 ton. the payload simply isn't there. yes, you would be able to tow the excavator with it but after unhooking from the trailer you won't be able to carry much gravel. i would only consider a 1 ton if you are hauling mulch primarily. with a 45-5500 or 450-550 you will have much more truck. better safer towing, better capacity wrse milage. the milage and drivability is a pill you have to swallow. it has been well worth it for me. i would suggest considering a 6500 sized truck as well. with this you can do much more and there are bargains to be had for them now. perhaps keep the dodge for when you don't need the big truck. when you do need it it's costs will be paid for by the job it is doing. i have a F350, 4500, and an old C65 chevy gasser. don't use the C65 much but when i need it it's there and worth it's weight in gold. i was able to get it cheap and maintenance has been minimal for it. all it costs when i don't use it is tags. this has been a small price for the conveniance. there are better trucks than the old C65 but none have a better monthly payment.
good luck,

tnmtn
03-06-2010, 07:18 PM
just to add i am always towing or hauling with the 4500. towing either 7 or 9 tons depending on which machine is going.
good luck,

stuvecorp
03-06-2010, 07:46 PM
I'd say 450/550 or 4500/5500 sizes. The 350 can not haul anything legally and I thought the braking of the 350 wasn't as good as the 450/550.

AtoZ
03-06-2010, 08:55 PM
My one ton hauled a 6 ton load as good as my F-550. The tires on the 3500 would rub whereas the tires on the F-550 would not. When in a pinch I would haul as much as 7 ton on the F-550, but I don't do that everyday. I found that I was using the 550 too much for heavy hauling so I bought a International 4300 with a 33,000 lb gvw for the heavy boulders and stuff...

A one ton will work for towing and medium weight hauling. For towing and heavy hauling get a 450/4500 or bigger. You'll like the added hauling capacity, ie better tires and brakes... With as many mistakes over the years as I've made with vehicles - it's better to over-spec than under-spec...

A 450/4500 and up chassis does not cost that much more than a one ton. I like one tons but for heavy hauling that is asking too much...

Gravel Rat
03-07-2010, 04:36 AM
I don't operate overloaded trucks the max I will overload a truck by is 1000lbs. My current 06 F-450 will handle 7000lbs and that is the heaviest load I will put on the truck. With the truck grossing 17,000lbs the braking power is maxed out.

Maybe you guys with the no hills can get away with more weight I value my life if I put anymore than 7000lbs on my F-450 it is too heavy.

All the loads I haul out of the gravel pit are scaled and if you get caught overloaded by the DOT the pit you got the gravel from can get in sh*t for letting a overloaded truck leave the property.

Get in a accident the investigation reveals you were overloaded you have a good chance you will see jail time. Need more material make two trips myself I'am paid by the hour.

Ecoscapes
03-07-2010, 11:06 AM
Thanks guys, priceless info! I'm sick of living on the edge with the 3/4 ton! Leaning toward the F450 or 550, but the one other thought I had was a heavier duty dump/equipment hauler trailer; I saw one the other day hauling a mini ex, be nice to have one trailer, one truck. Like to have a flatbed 350 or 450, with a heavy duty dump trailer that does it all! Maybe I've been doing the dump trailers so long I just think owning a dump truck seems like a hassle. Any one own one of these dump/equipment trailers? I'm also looking at the 06' 07's Ford 350-550's and GMC/Chevy 3500's (size of the 45-5500's put me off a bit) I lean towards Ford but the newer duramax looks good too. Any opinions on these?

P.Services
03-07-2010, 11:10 AM
I don't consider the 4500 or 5500 anymore because they rnt being built and parts will eventually be hard to find. Get a ford.
Posted via Mobile Device

Ecoscapes
03-07-2010, 11:23 AM
Good point P.Services, what about the dodge 45-5500? Seem pretty rugged, haven't driven one but... They also are pretty rare, you can find an 08' or 09' but the price is out of my budget!

Superior L & L
03-07-2010, 11:33 AM
We currently run (2)4500 and a 6500. If i could i would run all 6500's. 1999-2002 can be picked up for $15,000. Get a diesel with less than a 100,000 and you are good for a long time. The 3500-4500 trucks are overloaded with barely any load. The 4500's look like a big truck, and they are "bigger" but cannot haul shat!

P.Services
03-07-2010, 12:32 PM
Just get yourself a 99-02 ford f-450 or 550 with the 7.3. Can't go wrong and they are easy to find cheap. They look like a little truck but haul like a big truck.
Posted via Mobile Device

Gravel Rat
03-07-2010, 03:05 PM
If you want to stick with a 7.3 I would say go with the F-550 the F-450 in the 99-01.5 had the modified Dana 80 not as strong as the Dana 135 in the F-550 in that same year range. Wasn't till 2002 when the F-450 trucks came with the Dana S110 which is a heavier axle it will handle being overloaded.

I went with a 2006 F-450 because the spec's on it are very similar to what a 99-04 F-550 is the rear springs in a 2005-2007 F-450 only have 300lbs less capacity than what the F-550s with the 7.3s used to carry which was enough weight for a truck its size.

For our regulations if you operate a F-550 say with the 19,000lb gvw then your into higher insurance rates and more DOT regulations. For the regulations you might aswell run a 5 ton truck. I'am glad I didn't buy a F-550 with a 19,000lb gvw my insurance would be higher than I would like.

A F-550 with a 19,000lb gvw is only meant for flat lands you gross a 550 to 19,000lbs if you live in a place with any kind of hills you are going to have tight butt cheeks. The braking power isn't there I don't know how Ford can rate a 550 with a gvw that high.

The brakes on a F-450/550 are maxed out with a F-550 rated at 17,000lbs that is grossing a the truck to 17,000 not pulling a trailer.

I found the max capacity of my F-450 the other day and it was 7000lbs grossing 17,000lbs and that was heavy enough. Braking power was good wouldn't want to push it with anymore weight. The tow haul mode helped a little bit but not as good as I thought it would.

The automatic free wheels at lowspeeds and your on the brakes.

If you don't stay legal and within the legal weights it will come back to bite you in the azz and you will loose everything you own and spend sometime in jail.

meets1
03-07-2010, 07:40 PM
I am in the same boat and looking now at 07 dodge 350 with 12ft flat bed/dump. But my primary is mulch, light landscaping for pulling trailers with block - get alitte sway action with a 3/4 truck. I will also use it as a back-up during spring and fall clean up for our lawn care business as well as place a plow and sander in the truck.

AtoZ
03-07-2010, 11:19 PM
I loved my '07 Dodge 3500 till the day I sold it. I try not to get attached to trucks, but that was one tough little dude... Loved the power. It would haul 6 tons without breaking a sweat!!! The only weak spot on the entire truck were the light duty tires. Other than that it drove great...

Ecoscapes
03-08-2010, 08:08 AM
Yeah I've been looking at the Dodge 3500's not to many out there, and I don't feel like putting a new front end in a used Dodge. Not that other trucks won't have their problems, love the Cummins, but the Fords I had before my Dodge were pretty reliable. I'm liking the flatbed 350-450 with a dump/equipment trailer, might go that route.
GR- thanks for that info, I think I'll try to find an 06'-07' F350-450, but there's a couple of 02's out there alot cheaper and not a bunch of miles, just got to dig deep!

MikeKle
03-08-2010, 03:54 PM
Look at a freightliner FL-50, or a Hino 145. They are both great trucks and will tow what you are looking to, and are much cheaper than the Fords or chevys.

Superior L & L
03-08-2010, 08:36 PM
Look at a freightliner FL-50, or a Hino 145. They are both great trucks and will tow what you are looking to, and are much cheaper than the Fords or chevys.

Im good with the Freightliner, but who the hell wants to be seen in a Hino :hammerhead::hammerhead: It looks like a toy:)

MikeKle
03-09-2010, 12:31 AM
I like the way Hinos look! The look like any other medium duty truck? You must be talking about the models that use the 19.5" wheels? It does look a bit funny that big of a truck with those tiny looking wheels, but alot of big trucks use those smaller wheels, not sure why though? I assume it is mainly to make it sit lower, or maybe it is a DOT thing? Look at the Chevy 4500 and 5500, they use the same 19.5" on their medium duty trucks, or the Intl Lo-pros.

AA+ landscaping
03-09-2010, 03:49 PM
Just so you know a 5500 is reg. is at 18750 then you put on a 10000 trailer and your at 28750. So in pa you are over a C class driver's license his means you will need a A class license. Not say I have one but it the risk I take.:laugh:

AA+ landscaping
03-10-2010, 10:19 PM
BUMP Also got 12000 miles on my dodge. Plowed two seasons runs great. Lots of power just took back skid steer pulled fine.:weightlifter:

andy'slawncare
03-10-2010, 10:34 PM
I am in the same league right here guys. We are looking for a truck in this class anyone know or have one themselves for sale please pm me. I am willing to travel but cant really afford much over $12,000.
Thanks

Ecoscapes
03-12-2010, 09:14 AM
Just looked at a 06 F350 flatbed dump diesel, never plowed, one owner, clean, tempting! Tried an 06' F550 definately big n bulky, think I'll stick with a 350 or 3500 for now get a bigger dump trailer.

Looking at a 07' Dodge 3500 today, 15000 miles, but with the 6.7 cummins; first year new motor changes make me nervous with any truck - any one had experience with first year Dodge 6.7?

stuvecorp
03-12-2010, 10:21 AM
Just looked at a 06 F350 flatbed dump diesel, never plowed, one owner, clean, tempting! Tried an 06' F550 definately big n bulky, think I'll stick with a 350 or 3500 for now get a bigger dump trailer.

Looking at a 07' Dodge 3500 today, 15000 miles, but with the 6.7 cummins; first year new motor changes make me nervous with any truck - any one had experience with first year Dodge 6.7?

I think you will be sorry getting a 350 as there is no real weight carrying capacity compared to a 450 or 550.

AA+ landscaping
03-12-2010, 11:14 AM
Just looked at a 06 F350 flatbed dump diesel, never plowed, one owner, clean, tempting! Tried an 06' F550 definately big n bulky, think I'll stick with a 350 or 3500 for now get a bigger dump trailer.

Looking at a 07' Dodge 3500 today, 15000 miles, but with the 6.7 cummins; first year new motor changes make me nervous with any truck - any one had experience with first year Dodge 6.7?

They have all the updates for the 6.7. Also you should always go a little bigger then you think.

Gravel Rat
03-12-2010, 02:01 PM
You are wasting your time buying a F-350 it won't haul any weight.

Superior L & L
03-12-2010, 07:39 PM
Ford F-350 or Chevy 3500 = mulch hauler !!! and not much, based on the size beds that come on 1 tons :nono::nono:

Duffster
03-12-2010, 09:20 PM
Just so you know a 5500 is reg. is at 18750 then you put on a 10000 trailer and your at 28750. So in pa you are over a C class driver's license his means you will need a A class license. Not say I have one but it the risk I take.:laugh:

That combo is still under CDL. ;)

AA+ landscaping
03-12-2010, 10:08 PM
That combo is still under CDL. ;)

You still need a A class license. C class is under 26000 lbs.

Duffster
03-12-2010, 10:15 PM
You still need a A class license. C class is under 26000 lbs.

Don't need a Non Commercial class A either. With a 10k trailer you can go to 36k CGVWR with a class C.;)