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mcw615
03-07-2010, 09:19 AM
This is my 3rd OFFICIAL year going into business. All 3 years have shown a profit. I am 20 years old, and my business has been very successful so far. I have a great credit score, just not a long lengthy history.

I have about 70,000 in liquid assets, with about 10,000 in liabilities.

I pull a 7.5x18' 7k Holmes Landscape Utility Trailer ALL WITH A 2000 CHEVY 1500 SILVERADO 4.8L.

This truck is NOT going to make it but two months max this year pulling this equipment. I have been laying low with growing because I have had to save for months and pay for equipment out of cash pocket, and I have a great set up, just a poor embarassing truck that can't fulfill our company.

My parents have helped me a lot and have co-signed for when I purchased two toro z master diesels in the fall of 08 for 23,000, I have paid it down to between 9k-10k. My parents credit are tied up, and I REALLY need an F250 diesel for around 12,000. I have applied at a few banks, they said to them because of my age and the available credit I have on my Toro account, that comes back as a negetive because I have an available $13,000 credit limit and not a long credit history other than all payments have been made about a third more than the minimum payment. It made no sense. They said it used to be policy to have atleast 3 years of tax returns, but they said because of the govt cracking down on banks they have changed policies to min. 5 years. It's not like we can't afford a truck payment.

DOES ANYONE KNOW OF ANY LENDER THAT LOOKS AT THE FINANCIAL SITUATION AND NOT JUST A CREDIT HISTORY??????????

MikeKle
03-07-2010, 09:31 AM
Here is an idea that may or may not work, go join a local credit union, and wait a couple of weeks then apply for a truck loan, but instead of putting down you need $12K, put down you are applying for a $25K vehicle loan. IF your credit is fairly good, but the amount of credit is the problem, the credit union will consider you loan, and they will probably come back with a counter offer for you, usually it is around half the amount you would be looking to borrow in the first place, which would be around $12K. This happened to me when I applied for a mower a couple years ago, my score wasnt great, but not bad either, I had applied for $8000. signature loan, and they came back saying they could not loan me the full $8K, but made me a counter offer to approve me for a $4K loan. I ended up not excepting it and got another mower, but this idea may work for you.

ALC-GregH
03-07-2010, 09:47 AM
Here is an idea that may or may not work, go join a local credit union, and wait a couple of weeks then apply for a truck loan, but instead of putting down you need $12K, put down you are applying for a $25K vehicle loan. IF your credit is fairly good, but the amount of credit is the problem, the credit union will consider you loan, and they will probably come back with a counter offer for you, usually it is around half the amount you would be looking to borrow in the first place, which would be around $12K. This happened to me when I applied for a mower a couple years ago, my score wasnt great, but not bad either, I had applied for $8000. signature loan, and they came back saying they could not loan me the full $8K, but made me a counter offer to approve me for a $4K loan. I ended up not excepting it and got another mower, but this idea may work for you.

That is NOT going to work. You can submit a loan app all day long for whatever amount you want. As soon as the bank asks what the loan is for, they will decline it. They are not going to loan you 25k for a 12K truck. They are not going to loan you half that. At best, they might go 6-8K on a truck that's worth 12-14K.

Your best bet is to go to a car dealer and trade in your current truck. They can change numbers around to make it work.

SangerLawn
03-07-2010, 09:49 AM
You may consider buying new. Yes the over all truck prices will be higher but with the deals that dealers are offering now your payments won’t be that bad. We just bought a car for my daughter at a dealer and of course while I was there I had to ask about some trucks. They had new heavy duty trucks for 0 percent financing, 0 payments for 60 days, and the payments were over a 72 months time period. A used truck is going to run you depending on credit 3 percent – 15 percent then they will only loan for 48 months.

When you break that down you will find that you will only be paying a little bit more every month on a new compared to used. Dealers also have a better chance of getting you accepted compared to your local bank.

corey4671
03-07-2010, 09:54 AM
That is NOT going to work. You can submit a loan app all day long for whatever amount you want. As soon as the bank asks what the loan is for, they will decline it. They are not going to loan you 25k for a 12K truck. They are not going to loan you half that. At best, they might go 6-8K on a truck that's worth 12-14K.

Your best bet is to go to a car dealer and trade in your current truck. They can change numbers around to make it work.

wrong again. better off to sell you current truck outright. put that with some cash and move up.

Mowingman
03-07-2010, 09:59 AM
Find an older 3/4 to "work" truck ,and pay cash for it. Lots of early to mid 90's ford F250 Powerstrokes out there. If you do not need 4x4, then you can find a bargain. Watch Craigslist.
Here is town, for example, there are 2, 1997, F250 pickups for sale, both are solid older trucks, nothing fancy, and priced under $4000.00. Just yesterday, I sold an F350 diesel crewcab pickup for $2400.00. high miles, but lots of life left.
find something cheap, but solid, that you can pay cash for.

ALC-GregH
03-07-2010, 10:00 AM
wrong again. better off to sell you current truck outright. put that with some cash and move up.

Sure he could sell his current truck outright. He'll have to wait for a buyer though. Then he'll have to find a big chunk of cash (reason for this thread) to buy a truck. He'd be better off trading it in rather then wait what could be months before he could sell his truck. Or as Sanger mentioned, trade it in on a new truck. You definitely will have a better chance of getting the loan approved.

yardatwork
03-07-2010, 10:07 AM
Credit Union is the way to go. I can call my credit union on a Saturday (when all other bank loan departments are closed) and within five minutes I can have damn near any amount I want. Now, I'm also 34 years old and have a strong line of credit. I just paid off some business loans, a vehicle, and a small personal loan. Two weeks later the credit union sent me a brochure to apply for another vehicle...even though I didn't request the application! Anyway, check into their VISA line of credit. It's like a personal line of credit that you can use for whatever. I was able to get the max of $20,000 so I did. It is my emergency account and the interest rate is only 4.9% on all purchases. I can even issue checks to people through this account. Check into that. There is no need to know it's for a vehicle. Plus the payment is adjustable based on the amount of debt you owe. Also if you have cash in hand...put money down up front. Show the bank that you have the money. Sometimes paying cash is great, but it also can bite you in the ass...due to the credit issue. Put your money in the bank and ask for a loan from that bank. They will pull your account and see that you have "x" amount of cash in saving or a money market or checking account. A bank is all about percentages.

MikeKle
03-07-2010, 10:09 AM
I did not mean for him to apply for $25K for a $12K truck, He should simply put in the loan application that he is applying for $25K for a 2008 or 2009 newer truck that IS worth that much, then when they check his credit, and decline him for the $25K, they may come back with a counter offer for around what he wanted to spend in the first place. This played out for me with a credit union, but it was not for a truck. Then again, he may be able to sell his current truck and buy something heavier that will be a decent truck for him, There is plenty of $4K trucks out there with alot of life left in them. A early 90s Ford F250 or 350, early to mid 90s chevy GMC 2500 too. There is plenty of these trucks out there. I would go with a diesel though, as long as it has been taken care.

Raymond S.
03-07-2010, 10:20 AM
I've got 2 used if you're interested. 94 F250 gas w/ 120k & dump insert. 95 F250 diesel 150k 7'6" Western plow. Located at MI/IN border

SeedPro
03-07-2010, 10:45 AM
You may consider buying new. Yes the over all truck prices will be higher but with the deals that dealers are offering now your payments won’t be that bad. We just bought a car for my daughter at a dealer and of course while I was there I had to ask about some trucks. They had new heavy duty trucks for 0 percent financing, 0 payments for 60 days, and the payments were over a 72 months time period. A used truck is going to run you depending on credit 3 percent – 15 percent then they will only loan for 48 months.

When you break that down you will find that you will only be paying a little bit more every month on a new compared to used. Dealers also have a better chance of getting you accepted compared to your local bank.

Exactly. Ford Motor Credit will loan you the money. At a better rate than the bank. Just go to the dealer with your old truck to trade in, and I bet you have a new truck by the next day. Maybe that afternoon if they have something in stock or nearby.

You'll have a 5-600 a month payment, but a brand new truck, and no repair bills.

Now of course you need to be sure you can afford 5-600 a month and the small increase in insurance costs or you'll be watchin your truck go down the road on a hook.

JNyz
03-07-2010, 10:50 AM
I agree with Sanger. Go to a Ford dealership and get something off the lot. They will know how to work the financing. Your interest rate might be higher due to your age but you have to start somewhere. Also the term may be longer. I would never go with anything over 60 months but you may have to go 72 months and pay it down early. You should be able to get a bare bones 2009-2010 Ford F250 diesel 4x4 for around 31,000. Remember your payment might be a little higher and longer then you want but it sounds like you can do it. Good Luck.

TimsLawnCareVA
03-07-2010, 11:29 AM
If you look really hard there are some good deals on used trucks out there. I bought a 2000 F250 4 door crew cab 4wd off of craigslist 2 months ago for $4000. The guy selling it was about to lose his house and needed a quick sale. Truck was in really good shape with 200,000 miles. I am using that for my work truck so I don't tear up my GMC 2500.

JNyz
03-07-2010, 11:36 AM
If you look really hard there are some good deals on used trucks out there. I bought a 2000 F250 4 door crew cab 4wd off of craigslist 2 months ago for $4000. The guy selling it was about to lose his house and needed a quick sale. Truck was in really good shape with 200,000 miles. I am using that for my work truck so I don't tear up my GMC 2500.

I don't want to come across as a dick but a 10 year old gas truck with 200k on it sounds like the previous owner got the deal.

GGsimons
03-07-2010, 11:36 AM
Try Prosper.com ( peer to peer lending ) they are great for short term loans ( 3 years ) people bid on your loan so you may end up with a low interest rate and if you do not you can just cancel.

TimsLawnCareVA
03-07-2010, 12:40 PM
I don't want to come across as a dick but a 10 year old gas truck with 200k on it sounds like the previous owner got the deal.

How do you figure when book value on the truck is $7000? By the way, I was a auto technician for 14 years so mileage is not an issue as I do all my repairs and maintenance. Go ahead any spend lots of money and make payments on a shiny new work truck that is going to get scratches and dents. I will keep working my $4000 work truck that is paid for.

JNyz
03-07-2010, 12:51 PM
How do you figure when book value on the truck is $7000? By the way, I was a auto technician for 14 years so mileage is not an issue as I do all my repairs and maintenance. Go ahead any spend lots of money and make payments on a shiny new work truck that is going to get scratches and dents. I will keep working my $4000 work truck that is paid for.


I am not sure how long the link will work but i just used kelly blue book value and came up with book value less then 5k. I hope it works out for you but everyone does not have your background. Good Luck.

http://www.kbb.com/kbb/UsedCars/PricingReport.aspx?WebCategoryId=44&YearId=2000&Mileage=200000&VehicleClass=UsedCar&ManufacturerId=15&ModelId=102&PriceType=Private+Party&VehicleId=5986&SelectionHistory=5986%7c32636%7c19143%7c0%7c0%7c228463%7ctrue&Condition=Good&QuizConditions=

MOturkey
03-07-2010, 01:05 PM
If your business is solid, and you have your feet on the ground, which seems to be the case from your post, then I tend to agree with those who say purchase new. New means higher payments, but no repair bills for some time, and dependable transportation, which is important running a business.

Another thing some are overlooking. If you are purchasing this for business use only, you will get a huge tax break from depreciation and interest you pay, which might help your situation greatly. Good luck. It is good to see young people doing well and looking ahead.

TimsLawnCareVA
03-07-2010, 01:24 PM
I am not sure how long the link will work but i just used kelly blue book value and came up with book value less then 5k. I hope it works out for you but everyone does not have your background. Good Luck.

http://www.kbb.com/kbb/UsedCars/PricingReport.aspx?WebCategoryId=44&YearId=2000&Mileage=200000&VehicleClass=UsedCar&ManufacturerId=15&ModelId=102&PriceType=Private+Party&VehicleId=5986&SelectionHistory=5986%7c32636%7c19143%7c0%7c0%7c228463%7ctrue&Condition=Good&QuizConditions=

The truck is a crew cab long bed, so it is little higher. Here is the value.

http://www.kbb.com/kbb/UsedCars/PricingReport.aspx?YearId=2000&Mileage=200000&VehicleClass=UsedCar&ManufacturerId=15&ModelId=102&PriceType=Private+Party&VehicleId=5975&SelectionHistory=5975%7c32636%7c23901%7c0%7c0%7c228074%7ctrue%7c228138%7ctrue%7c228149%7ctrue%7c2281 86%7ctrue%7c228481%7ctrue&Condition=Good&QuizConditions=

JNyz
03-07-2010, 01:31 PM
Good Luck.

P.Services
03-07-2010, 01:46 PM
Go to the dealer!!!! You will thank yourself in the end. Find a low mile late year truck like I did, 2008 duramax 20,000 miles for 15k less then what it would have cost me new. I would shy away a little from buying brand new until I exahusted my search for almost new. But in the end I would buy new over a used beater. Trust me, I was in your exact situation with banks telling me the same thing last year. Your going to have to have your parents co-sign if you buy light used though. A long list of decent credit is faaaar better then a little great credit. Ask them to sign and then tell them you will get their names off it in a year or two (by then they will have forgot). If they will not sign no matter what try yourself only and if that won't work just go get a new one. I wouldn't go diesle though, if I did it again I would get a gasser. That 6.4 is gona kill you once its out of warranty. Just get a striped down gasser for 20-22k plus tax put about 5-7 down on it and you will be set. Take out a 48 month loan if it helps the interest rate enough. You sound like you have ur stuff together.
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soloscaperman
03-07-2010, 01:49 PM
Forget trading it in most dealers don't take trucks at that age or mileage. Is the body in good shape? Why not just buy a used motor for a few grand or even buy a 6.0 motor, you would be happy like a pig in shi*

P.Services
03-07-2010, 02:26 PM
oh yeah i forgot to add, just sell the truck on your own if the dealer wont give u a few g's for it. dont try to get top dollar just blow it out the door and get on with life.

Field King
03-07-2010, 02:27 PM
Pay cash, get creative, hustle the phone for more spring cleanups, sell some unused equipment on craigslist, sell the current truck and u have some cash now! Go to www.auctionzip.com, select your state, in the search put in how many miles you are willing to travel (I do 100 mile search) and your zip, also put in keywords like "F250 etc.) that will show you a calendar with all the auctions in your area with that type of truck, go bid on one! Spring consignment sales are going on now with lots of trucks and mowers etc.

mcw615
03-07-2010, 06:17 PM
The guy with the CU counter offer, I applied at BB&T, Bank of America, and my CU who I use to run my business with. They all completely denied - NO counter offer. I will try my Ford dealer, I would hate to get the inside all dirty, but you have to do what you have to do I guess.

To those of you who said buy something cheap with cash, that is what I have done over and over and because of that I have gotten no where. Banks don't care how much in assets you have, they just care how much credit history you have.

In order to get the mowers, with my dad co-signing, they only approved me for 8500, the sales guy at Toro who knew me well talked GE money into giving me 23k, he told them he knew I could easily afford payments I have dealt with them for years, had a strong business and just signed a new large contract of $5,000/month for 3 years and I needed this equipment. He lied on his own about the new contract but he wanted to make a sale and trusted I could make the payments. So they approved after about 5 minutes on the phone with the manager. Hopefully Ford can do something the same, but they don't know me. We'll see....

mcw615
03-07-2010, 07:02 PM
Okay, All the Ford dealers within 100 miles of me do not even have diesel F250's in stock. For a crew cab 6.0 Gasoline Engine runs from $44k-$50k then add an additional rough 7k for diesel. Puts payments about 800 a month, about double what I would like to pay.

beargins
03-07-2010, 07:10 PM
Check out these videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/lawncaremillionaire#p/search/1/eTu_Df9PDRw
http://www.youtube.com/user/lawncaremillionaire#p/search/0/mUrbE5tBvQg


This guy has a multimillion dollar lawn company, but he says he always buys used with low miles. He's got about 180+ other videos on that channel. Good luck man.

JNyz
03-07-2010, 07:14 PM
Okay, All the Ford dealers within 100 miles of me do not even have diesel F250's in stock. For a crew cab 6.0 Gasoline Engine runs from $44k-$50k then add an additional rough 7k for diesel. Puts payments about 800 a month, about double what I would like to pay.

Don't worry about the sticker price. Tell them you want a 2009-2010 f250 stripped down, just diesel and air. The sticker will be about 40k and you should be able to get it for around 30k-32k with the rebates. I got a 2008 sticker 42 for 33k out the door. Just do your research.

corey4671
03-07-2010, 07:41 PM
I just had to go back and read the original post...did I see that you have $70 in liquid assets?

mcw615
03-07-2010, 07:47 PM
I just had to go back and read the original post...did I see that you have $70 in liquid assets?

I accidently hit the wrong button on the computer calculator when re-figuring what I had. I have probably about $55,000 in assets with $10,000 in liabilities.

P.Services
03-07-2010, 08:19 PM
i was always taught liquid assets are cash and cash only. i could be wrong. Then assets are trucks and equipment.

beargins
03-07-2010, 08:29 PM
i was always taught liquid assets are cash and cash only. i could be wrong. Then assets are trucks and equipment.

Looks like your right

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=define%3Aliquid+asset&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_liquidity

P.Services
03-07-2010, 08:30 PM
i read that at first and though "dude you have 70 large in the bank! go buy a truck what are you bitchin for!"


those cooledge classes pay off!!

Glenn Lawn Care
03-07-2010, 08:31 PM
then rob the bank that wont lend you it! jk that sucks!

BrandonV
03-07-2010, 08:32 PM
just a note if youre interested I have a 97 f350 diesel I'm looking to sell. its a big truck but will provide you with years of service, just too big for me to drive around doing lights/sprinkler repairs.

Scagmower48
03-07-2010, 08:39 PM
Whats wrong with your current truck. Isn't truck rated to tow like 5K lbs. If you are a little bit over it won't kill it. Save and buy a truck next season or after the season so you can write it off on this years taxes.

P.Services
03-07-2010, 08:59 PM
Read.
Posted via Mobile Device

zz4guy
03-08-2010, 02:16 PM
Why in the world are you getting a loan when you have $90,000 sitting there in liquid assets. And why do you need a $25,000 truck to pull a 7k trailer.

Go buy a $5k reliable 3/4 ton and be done with it. Spend the rest on advertising or invest it!

STL Cuts
03-08-2010, 03:40 PM
Why in the world are you getting a loan when you have $90,000 sitting there in liquid assets. And why do you need a $25,000 truck to pull a 7k trailer.

Go buy a $5k reliable 3/4 ton and be done with it. Spend the rest on advertising or invest it!


I agree 100%

CLARK LAWN
03-08-2010, 04:06 PM
i think he feels he needs to show the image saying he NEEDS an f250 4x diesel. my trucks are a 94, 95 and a 97. 2 dumps and a pickup i run them every day in the landscape season and also plow snow with them. do the maintenance on them and dont beat them and they will last for a long time. lots of companies going under around here because they have to have the newest and best of everything and then they wonder why they arent making any money. its a work truck it is going to get dirty and dinged/scratched up why would i want a new one to get beat up like that.

qualitycut
03-08-2010, 04:09 PM
Go find one at a dealer. I went to my bank to get a 8,000 dollar loan and the wouldnt give me one. I went to a dealer my dad works at and got a loan for 52000 for my tuck with only 3,000 down. Dealers know how to get you credit and what banks are easiest to get it from. JMO

hiringus
03-08-2010, 04:47 PM
Go find one at a dealer. I went to my bank to get a 8,000 dollar loan and the wouldnt give me one. I went to a dealer my dad works at and got a loan for 52000 for my tuck with only 3,000 down. Dealers know how to get you credit and what banks are easiest to get it from. JMO

lol no offense but is that a win? To go from wanting a 8000 truck and being sold a nicer truck but $44,000+ more? Your dad IS quite the salesman.

qualitycut
03-08-2010, 05:06 PM
lol no offense but is that a win? To go from wanting a 8000 truck and being sold a nicer truck but $44,000+ more? Your dad IS quite the salesman.

No the 8000 was for a dump trailer I was going to buy. Point im making is if you go to a dealer to buy something whether its a mower, trail er truck etc. They will work harder to get you approved on a loan

brucec32
03-08-2010, 05:20 PM
The advice to seek financing through a dealer is probably the best way to go. They have incentives (especially the captive agencies) to be more lenient on lending standards. I have been told that usually when you apply for one TYPE of loan (car loans) the applications at different places will not count as more than one inquiry on your credit rating.

As for assessing the previous 3 years being "very successful" you might want to modify your standards a little. I'd say it you're getting along, which is fine for the current economy. But if in 3 years you do not have $12 grand saved for exactly this sort of thing with the relatively low living standard and obligations of a teenager (roomates or living at home, cheap health costs, likely no kids, etc) then you are not exactly raking it in. True it isn't easy early on, but saving $12 grand is about $75/week. That's beer and movies money for some. It's not your fault you came of age in the era of debt, but things weren't always like this. In previous times, it was not expected that one could borrow their way to prosperity. If you are not earning enough to pay your bills and also save enough for growth w/o borrowing, even with tens of thousands in "liquid assets" tied up in making a living, then you've reached a limit there. The glory days of EZ credit are over.

Also, if you can't easily sell something to pay for the truck you need then I wouldn't qualify those assets as "liquid". The bank considers them liquid if you don't need them to earn an income or can quickly convert them to cash. And they, being in the biz, know that if you could, you would.

CircleC
03-08-2010, 08:19 PM
"Liquid Assets"......thats funny! Everything is a liability, even real estate. You will learn that as you get older....those Toro's you bought are now dragging you down....and you thought they were an ASSET.

"IF" you have cash to spend, buy a 90's 7.3 diesel and dont worry about a payment. I just saw a 95 with 125k original miles, guy wanted $3300.

You should read that thread "How to fail in the lawn biz by someone who did".

Dont get a payment....hey, but the girls will love it!

Good Luck!

Southern Elegance
03-08-2010, 08:51 PM
a new vehicle will loose 60 percent of it value in less than 4 years. you can still depreciate a used truck and interest also. find a good used truck pay cash.... liquid assets are cash on hand .. equipment and accounts receivables are an asset, but not liquid

Metro Lawn
03-09-2010, 11:19 PM
Once again. You do not have to have a new truck to be successful in this business. I am in my 25th year and I have trucks still working daily that date back to the 80s. This does not mean that you have to settle for a junker either. Just search around. You can find some good deals. I am including a post that I have been listing some of the trucks and deals I have found over the past few years. It may inspire you.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=154535

Chilehead
03-09-2010, 11:30 PM
Find an older 3/4 to "work" truck ,and pay cash for it. Lots of early to mid 90's ford F250 Powerstrokes out there. If you do not need 4x4, then you can find a bargain. Watch Craigslist.
Here is town, for example, there are 2, 1997, F250 pickups for sale, both are solid older trucks, nothing fancy, and priced under $4000.00. Just yesterday, I sold an F350 diesel crewcab pickup for $2400.00. high miles, but lots of life left.
find something cheap, but solid, that you can pay cash for.

Spot on. This is what I have planned for this year. I need a bigger truck, bigger trailer, and a new mower. Cash is king. I have seen many a decent truck under $7K. I don't plan on spending more than that (maybe $8K if it's a sweet deal), and neither should you. Save your money for down the road. You'll be glad you did.:)

wes230
03-10-2010, 01:11 AM
I agree with some. Buy a cheap 2 wheel drive chevy or ford 1 ton gas burner that you can keep running for lets say ummm forever. Might even find one with a flat bed dump. There are some out there that is in good shape and not expensive at all. In the winter if things go good, fix it up a little if it needs it. Fresh paint and some wheels make them look sharp I think. Sell the one your driving for a car or truck to drive around when your not working, or you may already have one, I have no idea, or drive your half ton you have now. Because at your age it would be nice to have something to take a girl out in and try to make a tricycle motor. Cash is king. No payments means you can survive easier through hard times if you get injured or some other emergency. Dealers get people financed from banks because the banks will loan money to almost anybody from that dealership so they get all that dealers credit apps. They take the bad to have the good.

mcw615
03-10-2010, 12:34 PM
I am not trying to have the best of the best or newest of everything. I never asked anything about a new truck, that was just the opinion of many. I was looking at a 98 f250 7.3l for 11,000. The banks thought I was crazy.

My thread here was I NEED A TRUCK not want. The 1500 silverado barely pulled the trailer last year and was starting to overheat. That was only with a walkbehind, 1 zero, and 2 21". I tried 2 or three times to try and pull the trailer with 2 z's..... slightly going down hill to come to a stop the trailer just kept pushing the truck.

Successful.... I say I have been quite successful by making a profit each year. I have my own house, and make it by and get to save a little bit. I think I have done pretty good for working 40-50 hours a week just myself and making a living. 2/3 of my time a week is spent out in the field, the other third is office work, maintenance, cleaning mowers, that nature. $36,000 a year. My problem is the truck I have won't survive with expansion. The truck is worth 5k. Two months of pulling that trailer this spring it will be shot with repair bills twice the what was value. Having a truck that can pull the trailer FULLY EQUIPPED to render service to more and greater clients is an investment and neccessitty opening more doors of opportunity, and the chevy runs great by itself just pulling something to the max will kill it and be worth nothing. A brand new truck has a higher price and you cant keep a new truck looking new as a work truck in this field. I have just been looking for a decent work truck at a reasonable price but the banks just say no. I am going tomorrow to talk with my Ford dealer just to see what they have to offer and think long and hard.

AI Inc
03-10-2010, 12:36 PM
I was looking at a 98 f250 7.3l for 11,000. The banks thought I was crazy.
.

The banks were correct.

mcw615
03-10-2010, 12:43 PM
I am not trying to have the best of the best or newest of everything. I never asked anything about a new truck, that was just the opinion of many. I was looking at a 98 f250 7.3l for 11,000. The banks thought I was crazy.

My thread here was I NEED A TRUCK not want. The 1500 silverado barely pulled the trailer last year and was starting to overheat. That was only with a walkbehind, 1 zero, and 2 21". I tried 2 or three times to try and pull the trailer with 2 z's..... slightly going down hill to come to a stop the trailer just kept pushing the truck.

Successful.... I say I have been quite successful by making a profit each year. I have my own house, and make it by and get to save a little bit. I think I have done pretty good for working 40-50 hours a week just myself and making a living. 2/3 of my time a week is spent out in the field, the other third is office work, maintenance, cleaning mowers, that nature. $36,000 a year. My problem is the truck I have won't survive with expansion. The truck is worth 5k. Two months of pulling that trailer this spring it will be shot with repair bills twice the what was value. Having a truck that can pull the trailer FULLY EQUIPPED to render service to more and greater clients is an investment and neccessitty opening more doors of opportunity, and the chevy runs great by itself just pulling something to the max will kill it and be worth nothing. A brand new truck has a higher price and you cant keep a new truck looking new as a work truck in this field. I have just been looking for a decent work truck at a reasonable price but the banks just say no. I am going tomorrow to talk with my Ford dealer just to see what they have to offer and think long and hard.

AI Inc
03-10-2010, 12:48 PM
Try looking at 1-2 yr old trucks with under 30k on them. You will pay 75% of the cost of new but get 85%-90% of the truck.

mcw615
03-10-2010, 12:52 PM
They thought I was crazy because I want $11k period. Looking all over ebay and craigslist and local paper for a late 90's F250 with okay miles and okay condition anywhere from 8,000-13,000 is what I have found the value and going prices to be.

beargins
03-10-2010, 01:47 PM
Hey mcw615, I definately understand what your saying, I wanted a 99-2003 f250 with the 7.3l diesel, because the body style is much nicer than the 1996 and earlier models. I just wanted something to pull a travel trailer though, when I get started with my lawn service unfortunately my first month will be using my wifes jeep liberty lol. After that I want a mid 90's V6 ranger for my lawn care. I looked on criaglist in Richmond I saw this f250: http://richmond.craigslist.org/ctd/1624229476.html . At the end of the day though, you get what you want man, good luck with your purchase.

AI Inc
03-10-2010, 01:54 PM
I will be selling a 2000 f 350 with 178k on it in a few weeks. Rebuilt tranny last fall , also $1800 in repairs last fall including new exhaust. Looking for $4000

mcw615
03-10-2010, 02:41 PM
i will be selling a 2000 f 350 with 178k on it in a few weeks. Rebuilt tranny last fall , also $1800 in repairs last fall including new exhaust. Looking for $4000

check private message

mcw615
03-10-2010, 02:43 PM
Hey mcw615, I definately understand what your saying, I wanted a 99-2003 f250 with the 7.3l diesel, because the body style is much nicer than the 1996 and earlier models. I just wanted something to pull a travel trailer though, when I get started with my lawn service unfortunately my first month will be using my wifes jeep liberty lol. After that I want a mid 90's V6 ranger for my lawn care. I looked on criaglist in Richmond I saw this f250: http://richmond.craigslist.org/ctd/1624229476.html . At the end of the day though, you get what you want man, good luck with your purchase.

201K miles on a gasoline F250 work truck engine is quite a bit. Thanks for the consideration.

brucec32
03-10-2010, 04:08 PM
If it's just for a mowing rig then any compact V6 or full size 1/2 ton truck will easily pull 2 Z's and a few trim mowers. Your truck may have an issue you should get looked at. I towed a similar load for years with just an old S10 143 hp compact pickup and have towed 2 Z's and such with a Tacoma with no issues. It was actually pretty quick.

Remember, small trucks WEIGH LESS than HD models. A 5500 lb HD model has more hp/torque, but that little truck weighs 1500-2000 lbs less, which offsets the lower power quite a bit.

I use a HD truck now because I put a heavy load in the bed, but if I didn't I would prefer a lighter duty truck. They are smoother, quieter, and consume less fuel. 14mpg vs 8 makes a difference in fuel costs.

mcw615
03-10-2010, 04:14 PM
If it's just for a mowing rig then any compact V6 or full size 1/2 ton truck will easily pull 2 Z's and a few trim mowers. Your truck may have an issue you should get looked at. I towed a similar load for years with just an old S10 143 hp compact pickup and have towed 2 Z's and such with a Tacoma with no issues. It was actually pretty quick.

Remember, small trucks WEIGH LESS than HD models. A 5500 lb HD model has more hp/torque, but that little truck weighs 1500-2000 lbs less, which offsets the lower power quite a bit.

I use a HD truck now because I put a heavy load in the bed, but if I didn't I would prefer a lighter duty truck. They are smoother, quieter, and consume less fuel. 14mpg vs 8 makes a difference in fuel costs.

I don't know what kind of trailer you have, we have a heavy duty landscape trailer such as on this link; however, it is a Holmes 7x18 7k and not the exact one as shown.

http://www.newlondontractor.com/windowsticker.php?UniqueID=2713

Also, we have the diesel mowers which are about 600lbs each heavier than gasoline models, thats an extra 1200 pounds

360ci
03-10-2010, 04:20 PM
Why do you need a diesel? You plan on towing 10-14K every day?

Frankly, if the frame on your '00 4.8L is in good shape, you can do two things for roughly $1000 that can help you out in towing the 7K trailer. I can't imagine that your 7K rated trailer is running at max capacity. If it is, then these will still help but the 4.8L can easily handle 6K weight on it's own.

First, upgrade the rear axle from 3.73 (I hope you're running at least these gears with your 4.8), to a 4.56 unit. Open or limited slip or locker is up to you. You can swap the gears out for $400-600 hundred bucks if you shop around including labour costs to install. Then, to help rear end sag from excess tongue weight add air bags with a compressor (counted in cab preferably to reduce corrosion/rust) for about $350-500, installed.

With the 4.56 axles, that won't allow you to carry more weight, but it'll help you reduce transmission gear hunting, and might even increase your city mpg to better than that of what you can expect from a newer diesel truck. In this case, it's a win-win situation for you, it can also help with resale in a couple years should you decide to upgrade to a larger/heavier spec truck. GM gas engines are strong work horses. I see lots for sale (ex fleet trucks mostly) with the 4.8L engine in my area that have well over 200K on the odo, or roughly 300,000kms or more. Yes, these trucks were abused in construction sites, towing, etc.

That's what I would do in your case, stay away from the banks until the Toro's and anything else on lien is paid for. To help build credit, use a credit card regularly for fuel and be sure to pay it off each month so you stay in good standing. If you're already doing that, it's the best way to start. I know a lot of people who go from NO credit, to BAD credit right off the get go.

You're doing well, and I see no need to go out and utterly waste money you don't have with a bank that doesn't want to deal with you for a truck you don't really need.



You may consider buying new. Yes the over all truck prices will be higher but with the deals that dealers are offering now your payments won’t be that bad. We just bought a car for my daughter at a dealer and of course while I was there I had to ask about some trucks. They had new heavy duty trucks for 0 percent financing, 0 payments for 60 days, and the payments were over a 72 months time period. A used truck is going to run you depending on credit 3 percent – 15 percent then they will only loan for 48 months.

When you break that down you will find that you will only be paying a little bit more every month on a new compared to used. Dealers also have a better chance of getting you accepted compared to your local bank.

I agree. Going new is a good option these days. In Canada (home of high automotive prices) I can get a 2500 GM HD crew cab short bed with the gas 6.0L V8 for a touch over $500 a month with $4K down (my trade in) for 84 months at a decent rate (5.29%). Right now, Dodge has a 2.25% rate for up to 84 months. Personally, I wouldn't go more than 60 months, as that's a good indication that you won't be able to afford the truck when things start to break as you'll be long out of warranty. At 60 months a base truck, even reg cab can be had for a few hundred bucks stretched out for 84 months if you had to go that long. When you make extra $, put the money toward the truck loan to lower your interest and principal.

mcw615
03-10-2010, 04:28 PM
If it's just for a mowing rig then any compact V6 or full size 1/2 ton truck will easily pull 2 Z's and a few trim mowers. Your truck may have an issue you should get looked at. I towed a similar load for years with just an old S10 143 hp compact pickup and have towed 2 Z's and such with a Tacoma with no issues. It was actually pretty quick.

Remember, small trucks WEIGH LESS than HD models. A 5500 lb HD model has more hp/torque, but that little truck weighs 1500-2000 lbs less, which offsets the lower power quite a bit.

I use a HD truck now because I put a heavy load in the bed, but if I didn't I would prefer a lighter duty truck. They are smoother, quieter, and consume less fuel. 14mpg vs 8 makes a difference in fuel costs.

Also, the truck is rated to only pull MAXIMUM 5,000lbs and that's pushing the envelope. The truck is not made to pull 5,000lbs full time 6 days a week. The trailer weighs about 2k lb. If you are pulling anything on a full time basis greater than 2/3 the maximum load look to upgrade for something that is equipped to do so. 1 WB, 1 ZTR (2) 21", trimmers, blowers, gas cans that is already at 5,200 pounds NOT including the 800 HUNDRED pounds of grass in the bed by the end of the day.

360ci
03-10-2010, 04:42 PM
Also, the truck is rated to only pull MAXIMUM 5,000lbs and that's pushing the envelope. The truck is not made to pull 5,000lbs full time 6 days a week. The trailer weighs about 2k lb. If you are pulling anything on a full time basis greater than 2/3 the maximum load look to upgrade for something that is equipped to do so. 1 WB, 1 ZTR (2) 21", trimmers, blowers, gas cans that is already at 5,200 pounds NOT including the 800 HUNDRED pounds of grass in the bed by the end of the day.

mcw - just a guess here, but you must have the standard 3.23 rear axle if your towing capacity is only 4700lbs. As I had mentioned in my post half hour ago, if you had the optional 3.73 you can tow 6700lbs. If you get an aftermarket gear set (4.56) installed, it won't increase your towing capacity, but it'll allow better transmission cooling, less gear hunting, and it'll get up to speed faster in the city which can increase your mileage slightly. Add air bags as well and you should be able to get away with $1000-1100 in total to make your truck more capable without worrying about buying a diesel that you really don't need for what you tow.

mcw615
03-10-2010, 04:48 PM
mcw - just a guess here, but you must have the standard 3.23 rear axle if your towing capacity is only 4700lbs. As I had mentioned in my post half hour ago, if you had the optional 3.73 you can tow 6700lbs. If you get an aftermarket gear set (4.56) installed, it won't increase your towing capacity, but it'll allow better transmission cooling, less gear hunting, and it'll get up to speed faster in the city which can increase your mileage slightly. Add air bags as well and you should be able to get away with $1000-1100 in total to make your truck more capable without worrying about buying a diesel that you really don't need for what you tow.

I was writing that post you quoted when you submited your post. I have 2 ZTR's; I only put one on the trailer because that is all I can barely pull. Trailer fully equipped looking between 8k-9k pounds total weight to pull then to factor what is in the back of the bed. Maybe on the border line of actually needing a diesel. 1500's not doing the duties I have to fulfill. I will look at gas versions of F250's/2500s and see if it is to justify.

360ci
03-10-2010, 05:00 PM
Also, we have the diesel mowers which are about 600lbs each heavier than gasoline models, thats an extra 1200 pounds

Now I know why you want a diesel truck. Weight isn't the problem, it's making things easier to fuel. Less fuel types means less time wasted and time is money. However, a gas HD V8 truck will return low teens for mileage towing that trailer at 6-7K total weight. A 4.0L V6 ranger will be just as quick as a 6.0L GM HD gasser. A diesel will be slower yet, as you mentioned, they weight more. Higher weight, means faster component wear (such as tires, to name one). Mileage won't be much better than a gas V8 as the HP ratings are similar.

Personally, I'd stick with a gas V8. less cost to maintain, operate, and I'd feel terrible if I had to start and stop a diesel truck every mile or two when I reached my next lawn client. It's just not right!

mcw615
03-10-2010, 05:01 PM
mcw - just a guess here, but you must have the standard 3.23 rear axle if your towing capacity is only 4700lbs. As I had mentioned in my post half hour ago, if you had the optional 3.73 you can tow 6700lbs. If you get an aftermarket gear set (4.56) installed, it won't increase your towing capacity, but it'll allow better transmission cooling, less gear hunting, and it'll get up to speed faster in the city which can increase your mileage slightly. Add air bags as well and you should be able to get away with $1000-1100 in total to make your truck more capable without worrying about buying a diesel that you really don't need for what you tow.

I was writing that post you quoted when you submited your post. I have 2 ZTR's; I only put one on the trailer because that is all I can barely pull. Trailer fully equipped looking between 8k-9k pounds total weight to pull then to factor what is in the back of the bed.

CLARK LAWN
03-10-2010, 05:03 PM
if it is overheating that easy probably needs a fan clutch, $50. do you have brakes on your trailer? if not you need them. i had a half ton for three years and pulled 2 Z's or a Z and a w/b for 3 years and it worked out fine.

mcw615
03-10-2010, 05:08 PM
if it is overheating that easy probably needs a fan clutch, $50. do you have brakes on your trailer? if not you need them. i had a half ton for three years and pulled 2 Z's or a Z and a w/b for 3 years and it worked out fine.

Yes I have trailer brakes. It was not over heating just eating up a lot of coolant. Again 18' heavy duty trailer with diesel zero's that way more than gasoline models. 2) My truck is a 4.8l, barely a v8.

360ci
03-10-2010, 05:35 PM
My truck is a 4.8l, barely a v8.

Just be sure the DOT doesn't catch you pulling twice your rated capacity.

If the engine is on it's last legs, or costs more than what it's worth to fix, a good used 2500 truck would be the way to go. Keep in mind that you'll have to trade in your current truck which won't be much if it runs poorly and will cost a lot to repair. Put that toward a truck with as low mileage as you can find in your price range. Whether or not you decide on diesel or gas is a personal decision that only you can make for yourself.

Personally, I'd stick with gas as it's a lower cost, same fuel price and less maintenance all at the expense of 1-2mpg overall when compared to a heavier diesel. If you plan to expand in the future and want the diesel for extra pulling capacity, it's up to you!

ChunkyBeaver
03-10-2010, 05:42 PM
If you have 70k in liquid assets I don't see the problem? :dizzy:

EcoGreen Services
03-10-2010, 05:57 PM
This guy has a multimillion dollar lawn company, but he says he always buys used with low miles. He's got about 180+ other videos on that channel. Good luck man.

I have to agree that buying new is a waste of money.
I'll let the other guy take the beating on the depreciation in the first 2-3 years so they can drive a nice shiny truck.

I always buy low mile 2-4 year old trucks. It always amazes me how many people buy F-250s / 2500s for personal use.

For me, Work trucks are like pencils, just a tool to get a job done at the lowest cost per operating hour.

whole9er
03-10-2010, 06:01 PM
MCW615, I was in the same spot as a you had a 02 1500 with 140k, just lost the tranny, I pull the same load, a Z, WB and 21, and then fill the bed with grass. Im with you 100% a 1500 whether its a 4.8 or a 5.3 is just not meant to pull that weight 5 or 6 days a week. Maybe haul a boat 15 times a year or a lighter trailer a few times a week but not as much as we do. Its not that we are towing to much but we are towing to often to close to the high end of the weight range to last well. And hell no am I going to switch out the axles on a truck that rediclious.
Im also looking at 3/4's either 2500hd's or f250's prolly a 2500hd, I have a similar budget around 12k. I dont think its unreasonable, in my opinion it sets us up to grow and tow more, with less damage to the truck. I've been lookin into a lot of 04's with about 50k on them, im being picky now because I can be and have time, I hope I find something before I have to settle.

As for banks lending have you checked credit unions, or a business loan, a business loan isn't the best way to go tax wise but if its the only way you can do it then how can you argue. Good luck.

pblc
03-10-2010, 06:09 PM
Buddy if you have $70,000 in liquid assets I don't understand why you don't use some of that to buy the truck - unless you're saving that to buy a house or something. (I didn't read the entire thread.) That is saying you understand what a liquid asset really is - your equipment (trucks, mowers, etc.) does not constitute as liquid assets.

mcw615
03-10-2010, 06:18 PM
Buddy if you have $70,000 in liquid assets I don't understand why you don't use some of that to buy the truck - unless you're saving that to buy a house or something. (I didn't read the entire thread.) That is saying you understand what a liquid asset really is - your equipment (trucks, mowers, etc.) does not constitute as liquid assets.

I did not mean to say liquid assets, I was writing the thread up quickly and didn't proof read and I as well was exhausted when I was looking for some opinions. I was meaning the amount of equipment assets banks inquire about.

KeystoneLawn&Landscaping
03-10-2010, 06:28 PM
I say buy the best you can with CASH. That being said, I use a Silverado 1500 4x4 short bed with the 4.8L. I've used this truck for 4 1/2 years and it does just fine. It's rated to pull 7500lbs with the automatic transmission. My trailer gross is 7000lbs, so matches great with the truck. My trailer has an average of 2000lbs everyday, so with weight of trailer that's 4500lbs everyday.

Here in Erie, I've pushed an average of 120 inches of snow each year with the truck. I have 600-800lbs of ballast in the bed. My snow route takes 8-12 hours depending on snow, time of day, etc.

The average yearly maintenance to the truck is about $1200.00 ,not including tires. I do none of the work. I take the truck to a local garage. The only upgrade to the truck is I added a leaf to the rear springs.

I think you have a good truck and are trying to talk yourself into debt at a point when the economy may bite you in the butt for doing so.

I love my Chevy 1500! Don't get me wrong, my next truck will be at least a 3/4 ton. I hope to keep my current truck on the road for a long time after another truck comes along. Good maintenance truck, back-up, and most of all plowing with this truck is awesome for residential, which is 90% of my route.

Call Chevy, I'm ready to do a commercial!:laugh:

electronics2667
03-10-2010, 08:03 PM
if you still need a truck or trailer try this company 1st Pacc.com I just borrow 15.500.00 for truck,trailer & adiversting.

Field King
03-10-2010, 08:43 PM
I know it seems we are beating a dead horse here, and I do not want to offend, but I wish 20 years ago someone would have force fed me this stuff, pay cash!!! u can find a good F250 or 350 that will do the job for under 5k, may have some miles but if it runs well and was maintained well u are good for a few years more! U may have to go with gasoline engine though! Debt is what will sink u, you say you did 36k last year? That is very good for your age, u are doing fine there, but taking on an 11k truck payment and having to live off 36k is tough, I assume all your mower maintenance and repairs come out of that also, good luck with whatever u decide, at least you are not afraid to ask for ideas!

DoetschOutdoor
03-10-2010, 09:03 PM
You must have some shotty banks or credit unions around ya. Around here they will give you the loan if you have good credit and HAVE PROOF OF INCOME, IE TAX RETURNS. You pay taxes right? You should have several years of tax returns already showing good money if you have 70k in equipment.

stuvecorp
03-10-2010, 09:34 PM
How heavy are these mowers because I can't see needing a big diesel?

360ci
03-10-2010, 10:46 PM
Shop around for money. In my area, tons of places will give loans even if you don't have credit! Albeit, the interest is what kills you.

How heavy are these mowers because I can't see needing a big diesel?

One diesel ZTR is in the 1500-1800lb range depending on deck size and options. Add in 10gal of fuel and built up grass and dirt and it'll be close to a ton a piece. Too heavy for me. I won't be cutting the grass, I'll just be pushing it back into the ground.

rstan2010
03-10-2010, 11:01 PM
Look for a newer used gas truck there are some good deals out there. I recently picked up a 06 Ram 2500 4x4 for 11,000

360ci
03-10-2010, 11:28 PM
Look for a newer used gas truck there are some good deals out there. I recently picked up a 06 Ram 2500 4x4 for 11,000

I concur, that's a good deal, especially if the mileage was decent! '06 for $11K!

Metro Lawn
03-11-2010, 01:35 AM
In the past year I have bought 2 97 F250 HD with gas engines. Both were about 50k miles (44,000 & 52,000). Both came with plows, 4x4, ect. $5200 for 1 and $4500 for the other. I don't understand your truck though. I pulled a 20' open trailer with 2 Zs and 2 hydro w/b with a V6 Ranger and never had an issue.

mcw615
03-11-2010, 08:34 AM
In the past year I have bought 2 97 F250 HD with gas engines. Both were about 50k miles (44,000 & 52,000). Both came with plows, 4x4, ect. $5200 for 1 and $4500 for the other. I don't understand your truck though. I pulled a 20' open trailer with 2 Zs and 2 hydro w/b with a V6 Ranger and never had an issue.

Average 400-600 miles a week of pulling all that equipment that is over-rated for what the trucks maximum pull capacity. Did it from April to November last year. I would love to keep the truck and use it as a run around, just another 5,000 miles of pulling the trailer is going to kill the truck.

AI Inc
03-11-2010, 08:38 AM
the 350 tilt cruise, power windows /locks

mcw615
03-11-2010, 08:41 AM
I know it seems we are beating a dead horse here, and I do not want to offend, but I wish 20 years ago someone would have force fed me this stuff, pay cash!!! u can find a good F250 or 350 that will do the job for under 5k, may have some miles but if it runs well and was maintained well u are good for a few years more! U may have to go with gasoline engine though! Debt is what will sink u, you say you did 36k last year? That is very good for your age, u are doing fine there, but taking on an 11k truck payment and having to live off 36k is tough, I assume all your mower maintenance and repairs come out of that also, good luck with whatever u decide, at least you are not afraid to ask for ideas!

Nooo... My personal income was 36,000. The business pays all overhead, costs, maintenance, bills, blah blah blah.

mcw615
03-11-2010, 08:54 AM
You must have some shotty banks or credit unions around ya. Around here they will give you the loan if you have good credit and HAVE PROOF OF INCOME, IE TAX RETURNS. You pay taxes right? You should have several years of tax returns already showing good money if you have 70k in equipment.

All the credit unions will open business accounts for small sole-proprietors only. All of my personal and business accounts is with the same credit union. I have became close with the tellers and managers and they made an exception to allow me to have a business account there as a corp. I love it because no fees what so ever, the interest rate on savings account is 3 times that of banks, with only a $50 limit to earn interest and not $500, and checking interest is twice that of banks with a minimum $100 balance. That is why I also like the CU I am with. The only problem is the CU's here don't do business loans, they can do a title loan such as for a vehicle but it has to fall under personal. The loan officer is at the main branch and is tight, she said I don't have a lengthy enough credit history. All I have on my credit is my personal CU credit card, the Toro balance of $10k with a $24k limit, and I just got my dad to add me as a user on his credit card he uses for everything just so I get the same credit feedback. My score is around 730 when I checked a month or two ago. The CU and banks said the fact of my age and the small short credit history with a $14k available line of credit makes me a high risk even though I have made all payments before due and above minimum payment???? makes no sense but I am not a loan officer. Banks have said two years of corporate tax returns is not enough, and I made 8,000 in 2008 and 36,000 last year of personal income which I have been having to apply as because haven't been in business min. 3 years and preferrably 5 they say, but they said I have to have 2 years of returns of greater than 24,000. BB&t and Bank of America I applied but the headshots out of state are the ones who make the decision on whether or not to lend to a business.

GravelyGuy
03-11-2010, 10:45 AM
If you want a loan with your limited credit history, be prepared to put down 1/2 or more down to get the loan. If you don't have cash up front, don't even bother taking the credit hits to apply. I'm 21 and I've been through the same BS. You will have better luck going through a credit union than trying to get financed through Ford, GM, etc right now.

If you plan on sticking to this business and you have the work to justify a new or newer truck, I wouldn't mess around with the 5K trucks like some of these guys are telling you.

Old trucks are good if you have a place to work on them, can afford down time, and if you have a backup. I don't so that's my opinion.

stroker51
03-11-2010, 01:26 PM
Alright, I'm 21 as well, here is what I have decided over the last year. Would I like a new truck? Sure, I would love to replace my 01 F250 Crew Cab lariat diesel with a new one....but I am plain sick and tired of truck payments, and the couple grand I paid in interest last year on various truck and equipment loans. I decided two years ago that any purchase under $10k was going to be a cash deal for me, and since then paid cash for my new spray rig, new V plow, 10' stainless salt spreader, 22' gooseneck equipment trailer, and am going to drop $10k on a pretty nice skid steer this weekend, and finance a small amount. Cash is king, sure having credit is good, I have had a truck payment of some kind since I was 16 when I bought my first diesel, and my credit is really good from that, I am looking to buy a house and was pre-approved in a heart beat, but having money down helped there too. After my 01 is either sold or paid off, haven't decided if I'm going to sell it and buy another older diesel pickup to get by or pay it off, run it for a while then trade it, but I am going to start making a truck payment to myself every month, and in a year or two go into Ford with my measly trade, and a big ole wad of cash and pay for my new ride outright. The crux of what Im saying, is that I have been there too, wanting the nice truck for the status symbol blah blah blah, and after having a nice newer pickup since mid 07, along with a nice big(er) payment, it's great to be our age and look like a high roller around all of our friends, but at the end of the day, an expensive truck wont make you any more money than a comparable older truck. I would find a 94.5 to 97 Ford 7.3 truck, hell the first one I bought 5 years ago had 14X,XXX miles on it then, gonna roll 240 this week, and it has been hands down the best truck I've ever owned. And has been paid off since August of 06...it's nice to have nice stuff, but I would much rather have money in the bank in times like these, or at least nice stuff that I don't owe on. Good luck with whatever you do, sorry for my rant!!!;)

stroker51
03-11-2010, 01:31 PM
And I dont think anybody here is saying buy a 5K pos truck, but there are some really decent trucks in that price range right now. Im considering buying a 97 F250 4x4 351 from my cousin, cab and chassis, new transmission, $1800. No rust, no oil leaks or burning. Fleet maintained from new until two years ago when he bought it. just needs a nice flatbed thrown on it. To each his own but this economy has my just a little on edge over spending a whole helluva lot of money on a truck.

albhb3
03-11-2010, 02:28 PM
Alright, I'm 21 as well, here is what I have decided over the last year. Would I like a new truck? Sure, I would love to replace my 01 F250 Crew Cab lariat diesel with a new one....but I am plain sick and tired of truck payments, and the couple grand I paid in interest last year on various truck and equipment loans. I decided two years ago that any purchase under $10k was going to be a cash deal for me, and since then paid cash for my new spray rig, new V plow, 10' stainless salt spreader, 22' gooseneck equipment trailer, and am going to drop $10k on a pretty nice skid steer this weekend, and finance a small amount. Cash is king, sure having credit is good, I have had a truck payment of some kind since I was 16 when I bought my first diesel, and my credit is really good from that, I am looking to buy a house and was pre-approved in a heart beat, but having money down helped there too. After my 01 is either sold or paid off, haven't decided if I'm going to sell it and buy another older diesel pickup to get by or pay it off, run it for a while then trade it, but I am going to start making a truck payment to myself every month, and in a year or two go into Ford with my measly trade, and a big ole wad of cash and pay for my new ride outright. The crux of what Im saying, is that I have been there too, wanting the nice truck for the status symbol blah blah blah, and after having a nice newer pickup since mid 07, along with a nice big(er) payment, it's great to be our age and look like a high roller around all of our friends, but at the end of the day, an expensive truck wont make you any more money than a comparable older truck. I would find a 94.5 to 97 Ford 7.3 truck, hell the first one I bought 5 years ago had 14X,XXX miles on it then, gonna roll 240 this week, and it has been hands down the best truck I've ever owned. And has been paid off since August of 06...it's nice to have nice stuff, but I would much rather have money in the bank in times like these, or at least nice stuff that I don't owe on. Good luck with whatever you do, sorry for my rant!!!;)

Thats it your not 21 thats way to mature of a comment for your age(comming from a 20 year old)

seabee24
03-11-2010, 03:39 PM
this is the classic case of "i want i want" really ask yourself this "what do you need"?

you can do with out the diesel....so that saves you 4000 right there.
put up with what you have right now, save some cash 8000 will get you good nice used truck. then sell yours and be done with it. 23,000 in loans for mowers, good gosh

i mean after all..if you claim yoru truck has 2 months left of life and only 2 months.... if yoru telling me you cant make 8000 in 2 months...then i would say sir, either your finances are way messed up, or you dont have enough work to justify owning 2 brand new ztrs.

PROCUT1
03-11-2010, 03:55 PM
He wants a new truck. Plain and simple.

We've all made purchases that weren't necessarily correct business decisions and at the time Im sure nobody could have talked us out of it either.

AI Inc
03-12-2010, 07:04 AM
Im sure nobody could have talked us out of it either.

Could say the same about hooking up with a crazy woman !

mcw615
03-12-2010, 09:08 AM
To the new users posting on the last page or two; assuming you have not read thoroughly throughout each post, particularly the responses I made.

I never said I just want a new truck whether I can afford it or not. I simply responded I am looking for a durable, decent, used truck with okay miles that can justify to our needs, as my current truck is not able to accommodate that.

I agree with those of you with the mindset of 'Cash Is King', however, only to a set degree.

The second portion of my thread was that I have paid cash for nearly every piece of equipment we own. Depending on what type of equipment you are purchasing, the cash method can be good for your situation. A business advisor explained to me that when you are looking to make a purchase but need the assistance of a lender, the equipment you own should be listed and reflect your credit history for numerous reasons within. The problem with cash is king for large purchases, within your business, you know you can afford it. When you present a loan application to a bank, the equipment you paid cash with means nothing on you credit and businesses history. The only valuable asset in a banks mind is a vehicle, or land that has a government issued titled or deed. The only way to show the amount of equipment you own or have purchased in the past to prove your ability to pay the loan is if it is reflected on you and your businesses history.

To the 21-year old who has paid for everything completely in cash and is about to as well purchase a skid steer with cash, I commend you. I however know nothing about you, your business, and your financial situation. I only hope you are not saving all your profits and dropping them at one time on a piece of equipment only to start resaving again for another purchase. Sooner than later, an emergency will happen and if you do not have the cash, you are up the creek without the paddle. Cash in hand for emergencies is king.

Quick story... My grandfather is 82 years old. He has paid for everything they have ever owned in cash and is that way to this day. He paid for their home 25 years ago with 15 acres in cash, he was a builder and built the house himself. He is and always has been a very reserved individual. My cousin has a flooring business servicing hardwood and ceramic tile, and needed a co-signer for a loan. My grandfather could not qualify because he had no credit, even though he proved he owned a $350,000 piece of property, two vehicles, and however much he has in the bank. The bank just said it was not on his credit so he couldn't qualify to even co-sign. All of his money was in that bank where my cousin was applying at. He told the bank they are some sorry SOB's and foolish to know if something went down he couldn't pay off the loan in whole as they can see how much money he has. He told them to write him a check for the entirety of his account and close it he will go across the street..... they allowed him to co-sign when they found out he was serious about taking out his money.

AGAIN, I am only looking for a decent used truck roughly $9,000-$12,000. The local banks are not declining me because I am not able to afford it, they have raised their minimum bar of years in business, and how much credit history an individual must have in order to qualify.

stroker51
03-12-2010, 11:18 AM
Nope, every cash purchase is planned ahead and budgeted for. In the case of my loader, we had an exceptional winter with snow removal, so I have quite a bit of extra money from that, and need to get buy something before I get hammered on quarterly taxes....and to make sure its clear, I'm definately not getting a new machine just a clean 02 model with low hours. I run a rather small company, me and two helpers, 80% maintenance (mowing, chem apps, sprinkler service, etc.) and 20% snow, drainage, landscape. Anyway, what you said at the end of your last post is exactly what I was talking to my commercial lender about yesterday. It sounds like you are trying to apply for commercial financing because they are asking you very similar stuff as they are for me on the small amount I'm borrowing on the skid, so that I can maintain a manageable amount of cash flow. If thats the case I would try getting a normal consumer loan on the truck, all they will ask for is your personal income, and shouldnt need too much tax information. I know building credit is tough, been there done that where Bass Pro Shops wouldnt even give me a credit card a few years ago. My thoughts on credit and borrowing money have sure changed with the economy. There was a time I thought having debt was part of running a business. Fact is, for us smaller guys it's not necessary, after the first round of machines, trucks etc is paid for, if you really put your mind to being debt free, I see the problem your grandpa had, but I would rather have that problem than have great credit, a bunch of loans, and all of a sudden the bottom fall out of everything and lose it all. I can share your frustrations with a worn out work truck!

stroker51
03-12-2010, 11:24 AM
Thats it your not 21 thats way to mature of a comment for your age(comming from a 20 year old)

Hahaha, I havent been that way forever, I will be 22 next month, and have probably been paying wayyyy too much attention to the economy. I have been doing this for 7 years growing gradually every year, and have finally learned after a few rough winters when I started out about debt and cash haha.

mcw615
03-12-2010, 11:27 AM
Nope, every cash purchase is planned ahead and budgeted for. In the case of my loader, we had an exceptional winter with snow removal, so I have quite a bit of extra money from that, and need to get buy something before I get hammered on quarterly taxes....and to make sure its clear, I'm definately not getting a new machine just a clean 02 model with low hours. I run a rather small company, me and two helpers, 80% maintenance (mowing, chem apps, sprinkler service, etc.) and 20% snow, drainage, landscape. Anyway, what you said at the end of your last post is exactly what I was talking to my commercial lender about yesterday. It sounds like you are trying to apply for commercial financing because they are asking you very similar stuff as they are for me on the small amount I'm borrowing on the skid, so that I can maintain a manageable amount of cash flow. If thats the case I would try getting a normal consumer loan on the truck, all they will ask for is your personal income, and shouldnt need too much tax information. I know building credit is tough, been there done that where Bass Pro Shops wouldnt even give me a credit card a few years ago. My thoughts on credit and borrowing money have sure changed with the economy. There was a time I thought having debt was part of running a business. Fact is, for us smaller guys it's not necessary, after the first round of machines, trucks etc is paid for, if you really put your mind to being debt free, I see the problem your grandpa had, but I would rather have that problem than have great credit, a bunch of loans, and all of a sudden the bottom fall out of everything and lose it all. I can share your frustrations with a worn out work truck!

Since haven't been in business to their minimum policy, that is what I was having to apply for, consumer used auto loan. What they said was because of my credit I would have to show (2) years of income greater than like $30,000 to meet their percentage bracket. I made personally $8500 in 2008 and $36,000 personally last year. They said I do not have a lengthy credit history, and that because I only have 2 reports, and one has a $14,000 available limit, that makes me a high risk if they gave me a loan and I decided to make a purchase taking up my available with another crediter. I said that is stupid, I don't even personally pay that, the business does, the business pays for the f150 2wd I drive around the insurance, fuel, my cell phones, I am able to pay myself 21.5% a month of what I have to pay for rent on my house, utilities etc for 21.5% of my home is used for home office and I can classify that as additional income, so even if I was buying a 12k truck for myself I could afford it, but I am applying as consumer to try and get it for my business. They don't care, it all just comes down to credit, they don't take into consideration the persons actual situation, they just go all by a standardized statistic of probabilities etc of the age, credit score, available credit, and history.

stroker51
03-12-2010, 11:46 AM
That sucks. The bank I deal with is relatively local and kind of small town in nature, and we do a lot of work for them so that is nice. Have you had the option to deal with a smaller bank or is it one of the giant national mega banks that you are banking with? That will make a difference, because the things you mention they are not taking into account with you, a smaller bank might. Just a thought. Dont get me wrong with what I said before, I know there is a time to borrow a certain amount of money to help accelerate growth.

mcw615
03-12-2010, 11:52 AM
Our business account is with a credit union. Most to all credit unions will only do business for sole proprietors. I know the tellers and a few of the branch and asst. managers and they allowed me do open an account there few years ago when I started as a corporation because they liked me. I love it because the interest rate on checking and savings is about 4 times more of that of regular banks who will require a minimum of XX thousand dollars minimum to earn interest as the CU is $100 to earn interest. The only problem is they don't do business loans but can do a personal loan such as for a work truck. Their is one loan officer who is at a branch 30 miles away who is this women in her late 40s who is divorced, and hasnt had ***** in 15 years. She doesn't give a rats azz about anyone, the applicant either follows within their policy for lending or they don't. The other places I tried were BB&T (which was ranked number one lender in VA to small businesses in the last 5 years) and Bank of America. They all declined for the same reasons about my credit and what I have available makes me a high risk blah.....

stroker51
03-12-2010, 12:02 PM
If they havent mentioned this then it might not even be an option....but would it be possible to get a line of credit from any of these institutions, pay off the remainder of the mower debt to whoever has that loan, close that credit line, and have one credit line with your machines and then the 8-11k you need for the truck? Basically just refinancing your debt into one credit line instead of one for the mowers and then a truck loan. Just a thought.

mcw615
03-12-2010, 12:10 PM
The mowing equipment has 0% interest on the Toro/GE Money Bank account. At BB&T we applied for an auto secured loan and a line of credit. The line of credit interest ranged from 12%-18%. They were just stunned that at 18 with no credit someone gave me a CREDIT limit of $24,000 - they said if it was a secured loan then that is still high for my situation then of not making any money and not having my first year of tax returns yet. They just talked about that is why they have had to raise their bar on lending money because there are companies out there that are lending like that and people aren't able to afford the payments evetually when times get tough, they said they too were like that to some degree at one point but they had to learn their lesson by taking big losses. Its rediculous. OUR tax dollars we pay bailed out these banks. I understand carelessly lending out money, but if they would take 5 minutes to consider the persons particular situation things would be different. My tax dollars bailed these banks out, and for that they increased their bar of lending and won't consider me. I think they should have kept the bar where it was and USE PLAIN COMMON SENSE BEFORE YOU GIVE SOMEONE A CHECK!

stroker51
03-12-2010, 12:19 PM
I wondered about the interest rate after I typed that, my John Deere Credit is 0% too. I think we are on the same page about bailouts, bank policies so on and so forth though haha. It is a shitty deal, its exactly the way I felt a year ago when I first went to get a pre-approval for a home loan. Frustrates the hell out of a young guy who is trying like hell to do the right thing and make his own living, paying taxes, creating jobs etc, have cash money, good job, and still get turned down. If you think getting a truck loan is frustrating, wait until you go to buy a house!

mcw615
03-12-2010, 01:28 PM
Ha, that's another thing. I was leaving my old apartment and was going to start looking to buy a house and I got preapproved for $130,000. But I knew with that price range I would be looking at a smaller lawn and a higher end starter home. I knew if I was to buy the house I would only be there for no more than 5 years and the cost of selling and all the hassle wouldn't be worth it and I would take a loss, so moving from an apt to a decent size larger townhouse even with higher rent comes out cheaper than in 5 years of trying to sell and buy larger, plus have the 20% deposit saved to get out of mortgage insurance.

Just didn't make sense they would approve me for a house but not a 12k auto loan. I swear I would love to know where these people go to get training on lending. They must be book smart because of their degree but not common sense.. rediculous.

albhb3
03-12-2010, 01:50 PM
Hahaha, I havent been that way forever, I will be 22 next month, and have probably been paying wayyyy too much attention to the economy. I have been doing this for 7 years growing gradually every year, and have finally learned after a few rough winters when I started out about debt and cash haha.

when is your BD mines on the 19th

stroker51
03-12-2010, 05:35 PM
Mine is the 8th. I'm looking in that same price range, up to maybe 150-160, but the same kind of deal. My whole thought is if I find a decent place that works good enough for now, in the low 100's, buy it and get the tax credit....probably the only "bailout" money you and I will ever see. Since you have to stay there for 3 years to keep the money, stay there and then after three hopefully be able to afford to keep it for a rental and then go bigger/better. As business grows hopefully that plan would work. The other is to say screw the tax credit, and keep saving and waiting until I find a much more suitable place on some acreage. I share your frustrations man.

DoetschOutdoor
03-12-2010, 07:18 PM
Not to sound rude but man If I had your equipment list, I think I'd have that much dough in the bank or be able to make that very fast.

Im 24 so a few years more credit history than ya'll but the banks and credit unions didnt hesitate to loan me money for 06 cummins last week. I wrote down a boatload of my income this year and last year and was wondering if they would do a loan but with credit score and proof of taxes the whole process took about 15 minutes.

Evan528
03-12-2010, 08:09 PM
You guys must not have enough on your credit report. At 18 I bought my first home and a new truck the same year. Got loans for both with a little bit of work. Within a year of that I was being approved for any loan I applied for without even a hesitation. I think one of the best things I ever did was getting a credit card (with a co-signer) and having myself added as an authorized user on several of my mothers credit cards at 15. By age 18 I already had close to 3 years of credit history and several accounts on my credit report.

Auto loans have always been the easiest loans to get. A credit check and a one page application and your approved...... I have never even had to verify income.....

Custom Landscape Concepts
03-12-2010, 08:56 PM
I feel your pain on this one man. Just went to a dealership today and drove an 04 chevy 3500 duramax with a stainless body, 70K and a body in mint condition for 22,500. Loved the truck and have been looking for weeks so I decided to go for it and went inside to do the paperwork. Finance manger comes back that I don't have enough history (almost 3 years) and that the bank said I pay loans off too quickly, which I thought was good but it was actually bad haha. Even with 6000 down and a 721 credit score I need a cosigner or there is no deal. Luckily my father has awesome credit and agreed to sign with me but trying to get money at this age is just so much more difficult then it use to be. good luck with everything.

stroker51
03-13-2010, 01:16 AM
I feel the pain on that. Payin off loans early bit me hard probably two or three years ago, I had at that time I think three truck loans, the longest had been like 18 months I paid on it before I paid it off, I too thought it was a good thing....until I got my credit pulled for something and it actually hurt because I wasn't gaining enough credit history from those loans and the dent from pulling my credit to get them wasnt off set what I would/should have earned from making the payments and paying them off. Not a big deal now but then I was like wth? All my loans have been through the same bank, so that is helpful now, finally am really improving my credit and through the same bank they know the payment history etc etc so when I do need a little bit of a loan for a truck or equipment they have no problem with it.

pclawncare
03-13-2010, 01:33 AM
Stroker51 im 22 and it sounds like we are really one the same page. I have made some dumb choices around 18, none that hurt me per say, but sure made me think about things and how I could have done used my money better. I am cash only for anything since 19. I know everyone is going to say what about your credit score. Honestly, everyone has their own opinions, goals, and ways to achive them. This is simply how I choose to live mine. It was worked great up until now, so I don't see any reason to change it. I am just curious what MWC is considering in his quote of $70,000 in assets. Is that what you paid for it, or is it the current market value? Personaly, if it is current market value and you need the cash sell something. If not, why not wait two or three months into the season and make a little cash?

hiringus
03-13-2010, 01:48 AM
The solution to your problem lies right in what you wrote here.

Ha, that's another thing. I was leaving my old apartment and was going to start looking to buy a house and I got preapproved for $130,000.

What was it you needed? A truck? Subtract your truck budget from the $130,000. That new number is now your home budget. I am not sure where you are looking in Virginia but but you can probably find a foreclosure around for 100-110k. Plus you can always find a house a bit higher and offer what you have as a final offer. Your payment will now be what $700 a month? If they ask what the rest is for say you need to do some improvements right off the bat or tell them the truth... It snows around here and you now own a damn house you need a plow truck. It won't be as collateral so you will not need full coverage if you like living on the edge.

Hey just an idea, it sounds like a cheap mortgage and truck payment to me.

seabee24
03-13-2010, 02:32 AM
i stopped reading this is too long, but like i said

8000 will get you done, maybe even less if you shop around. if the banks arent lending to you then you need to just own up to the fact and pay cash. like i said if you just got 2 new ztrs then i assume yoru doing adecent amount of work , finding 8000 in a few months time shouldnt be that hard. and i did read your loan story, btu let me tell you what tends to happen to most business. it goes up and down, at some point the momentum that you have selling work will slow down..it will go back up as well. the economy is tuff right now. you know what, i have almost zero debit. i rent a house, and thats my largest payment, that and a cell bill. i live very stress free dispit the crappy economy. i can sell more jobs becasue i have less overhead. i dont have to worry abotu if the grass drys up early, or if it doesnt snow....my stuff is paid for. and until you get to that point you will not know what im talking about.

albhb3
03-13-2010, 02:43 AM
I feel the pain on that. Payin off loans early bit me hard probably two or three years ago, I had at that time I think three truck loans, the longest had been like 18 months I paid on it before I paid it off, I too thought it was a good thing....until I got my credit pulled for something and it actually hurt because I wasn't gaining enough credit history from those loans and the dent from pulling my credit to get them wasnt off set what I would/should have earned from making the payments and paying them off. Not a big deal now but then I was like wth? All my loans have been through the same bank, so that is helpful now, finally am really improving my credit and through the same bank they know the payment history etc etc so when I do need a little bit of a loan for a truck or equipment they have no problem with it.

I feel your pain on this one man. Just went to a dealership today and drove an 04 chevy 3500 duramax with a stainless body, 70K and a body in mint condition for 22,500. Loved the truck and have been looking for weeks so I decided to go for it and went inside to do the paperwork. Finance manger comes back that I don't have enough history (almost 3 years) and that the bank said I pay loans off too quickly, which I thought was good but it was actually bad haha. Even with 6000 down and a 721 credit score I need a cosigner or there is no deal. Luckily my father has awesome credit and agreed to sign with me but trying to get money at this age is just so much more difficult then it use to be. good luck with everything.

ya know guys you would think banks would be thrilled to loan money to people who pay off their loans on time or ahead of schedule unlike half the deadbeats... drives me up the wall

pclawncare
03-13-2010, 03:12 AM
seebee you have first hand experience with what I was talking about with a lifestyle. People that have never lived the life style that you and I are will never understand it.

mcw615
04-21-2010, 09:45 AM
OKAY..... for the update:

I made 2 equipment changes and another and believe I should last the entire year with the current truck.

1) 6-ply tires on the truck instead of standard tires.
2) Sold the diesel mower, and bought a G3. Dieting off the extra 800lb diesel mower to a gas has made the difference.
3) I bag the grass when we use the 21" hi-vacs, typical small 2,000 sf account can bring 4 contractor bags full of grass to haul off at say 75 pounds per bag. I switched to the gator blades on the 21" mowers, now hauling about a 1/5th of the amount of grass to haul, but I am able to get by with not bagging a bit, just can't mow as quickly because of the decreased air flow.