poor cut

[ProMo]

im getting a bad cut on my 36" turf tracer hp I sent my wife to get me some exmark mulching blades and she went to the dealer that has never given me the right part and returned with gators wich are cutting worse i have stringers a missed strip in the middle and on the right side im cutting st aug at about 4" the machine is 2 yrs old and due to a bad few months cant put it in the shop 2 more pmts and its paid off then i could put it in but its not going to make it.Ive cleaned the carb and it needs it again it idles rough but seems ok at high speed dealer never told me there was a pre filter and it did not come with one when i bought it.The thing that you align for belt adj looks dead on looking from a standing position but there is about 1/2" diff if you look under machine accordind to diagram it should align not sure on that one.when i engage the blades i noticed today that the belt going to large idler pulley on trim side is wobling back and forth 6-8 inches and machine shakes this seems to be were my problem is.The pulley has a little play in it would this cause the problem?or should i replace the belt.Wish i had the money to have dealer look at it but i dont, trying to reorg my biz but things like this are killing me any suggestions.

[TLS]

Promo,

I'm sure the Exmark guys will say similar,....

Not many mowers can even attain a 4" cut height to begin with, so feel lucky that you can get it to go that high.

Next, not many people cut turf at that 4" height. This is simply too high to get the proper suction of the blades to stand up the blade of grass to be cut.

Finally, of all blades to be using when your complaining about cut quality.....GATORS??? They simply can NOT produce the lift necessary to attain a QUALITY 4" cut.

My suggestion, try a set of the new Excalibur high lift blades and then consider lowering your cut to 3.5" or so. Also make sure your engine is capable of at least 3600 RPM.

I'm not going to touch your other complaint items, as I really cant comment on them.

Good Luck!

[MikeLT1Z28]

are you running a mulch kit? if so that's why the gators did a bad job. also, are they 18" blades? how many spacers above and below the blade?

[eXmark]

Promo,

Sounds like you've got your hands full. There are some things that you should do. First and foremost get a set of Exmark mulching blades p/n 103-2518 on the machine. The gators may work great but for diagnostic purposes we know more about our blade and it will help us figure out what's going on.

The next thing that needs to be done is determine what is causing the belt shake. Generally it's going to be a belt with a high or low spot, chunk missing or a bent pulley. Next you'll need to check the deck idler. Place a 9/6" socket on the deck idler pulley bolt and pull against the idler spring. While doing this slip the belt off one of the deck pulleys. You should now be able to remove the spring. What you’re looking for is any resistance to the idler pivot. That idler arm should pivot so freely it feels sloppy. If it doesn't feel sloppy unbolt the arm at the pivot and clean all surfaces and then polish them with emery cloth to ensure there is not caked on grease, rust, burs, sand etc. to prevent the arm from pivoting. Smear some grease on the pivot point surfaces and re-install everything in reverse order. I'm guessing you may have several issues. One being the blades, two being a bad belt or pulley and three the deck idler may be hanging up.

There is one other possible problem your having. Most of the issues we've discussed relate in some manner to blade tip speed with the exception of the type of blade your using. You should also have the engine rpm's set as well. I'm not sure which engine your running but if you have the 15 hp Kohler single check to make sure the choke is completely releasing. The engine should be set at 3600 rpm with the blades engaged but not cutting any grass.

The other thing to consider is the cutting height. It's not easy to mulch at 4". The quality of cut will probably improve in large increments as you lower your cutting height.

Check those things out and let me know what you find. I'll be out of town for most of the weekend so I won't be able to check your progress until tomorrow evening. Leave a post here on Lawnsite if you still have any questions and I'll do my best to get to a computer and take a look Saturday evening.

Thanks

Terry

[ProMo]

called the dealer(worthless)and they agreed to look at machine so i brought it to them guy engages blade checks under deck say i have wrong blades (duh)I asked them why they sold them to my wife she told them i wanted exmark mulch blades he said belt was ok and idle pulley is ok and it is normal for machine to shake like hell and for the belt to wobble 6-8 inches coming from engine hmmmmmmm he brings out the blades i ordered in the first place and mechanic if thats what they want to call him puts his impact on bolt on top of spindle yanks it off and i guess he figured that was not the way to get blade off so he impacts it back on washer crooked as ##@@ and then removes bottom bolt and puts blade on says its ready to go.get to a lawn and it cuts bad i then got home and checked idle arm polished it and regreased it started it up and ive never heard blades roar like they did and it never cut as good no belt shake at all but somehow the belt slipped off the back pulley and was riding on the brake drum under pulley and shredded it on back edge i put it back on and wobble came back looks like it is rubbing top of eng pulley at heights i use and bottom of idle pulley well now i know i need a belt im wondering if the screwups may have set this machine up wrong to start with because it never cut as good as it did with belt off back pulley ive yet to be satisfied with this machine until i saw the great job it did but a belt will only last about 5 minutes in that position i think my problem is buying from an incompetant dealer i took it in when it was under warranty and was told everything ok just like everything was ok today grrrrrrrrrr they piss me off.luckily none of my customers have ever said anything about cut quality but i always leave my jobs knowing something is not right well ive seen a great cut today just need to figure out how to get it that way with belt on pulley

[ProMo]

yes im running a mulch kit and gators are not the problem they just make it more noticable i got pins in 4th hole have room to go up to more spaces and have some lawns i must cut at full height or scalp away my dixie cuts at 5 inches during summer and doesnt miss a blade and for a few minutes i saw today that ex is capable of delivering the cut i want now to figure out what needs adjusting because it never cut that good before the gators are what the place i bought mower gives you when you ask for exmark mulch blades ask for a filter for 15 hp kaw and they give you a filter 2x bigger than what is supposed to go on it.Ive bought two mowers from them and service well i wont go there.

[eXmark]

Promo

Sorry for any inconvenience. The belt problem could have been caused by either the idler not working properly or it's possible that something threw it off. More than likely you've fixed the problem with the R&R you did not the idler pivot.

Let me know if you have any problems after the new belt is installed.

Thanks

Terry

[ProMo]

Well sorry to say ive lost faith in this machine its letting me down when im having financial problems only 1 payment left went to a new dealer to get belt and i asked them why they were selling me a white belt they told me thats what you guys have used for years well i bought a new machine and my belt was black no exmark markings at all anyways i put it on line up the tension indicator wich has always been 1/2 below bolt it lines up with but appears to be even looking down at it and belt is still shaking excessively to line it up it is adjusted almost as tight as it will go not sure why it had a non oem belt when i bought it but the new dealer says it shouldnt have and should also have come with a pre filter etc etc just wish it would have been as nice as my dc 6 yrs never had a problem,o well i always seem to learn the hard way anyways i give up

[chariot]

Probably not the problem but I will suggest anyway. I had a belt wobbling on a new Lazer and come to find out it was caused by bent pulleys. The edge of my center and left blade pulleys were bent and not allowing the belt to fully lay into the pulley. This caused a major wobble and my cut quality seemed to have suffered. Just thought that you may want to check the pulleys extra close.

[eXmark]

Promo,

If you've got that much belt shake you've got to have something out of round. Possibly a pulley or one of the belts that has not been replaced has a high or low spot on it. I talked to engineering at they suggested that you look at the pulley that's bolted to the brake drum first.

Your profile shows you’re in the Casselberry area. There are two Exmark dealers that should be with in a reasonable distance. If you’re not confident in the dealer your currently using then we probably need to get you into the second dealer. The other option is to call me at 800-667-5296 and we'll see if we can diagnose it over the phone.

Here's how I look at it. The mower is designed and built to cut grass. If it's not cutting grass we can fix it. That may mean you'll need to take it into another dealership but I assure you if there is something wrong with that machine we can fix it.

Thanks

Terry

[ProMo]

one of those two dealers said friday that there was nothing wrong with it they said the same thing when i took it to them while the machine was under warranty and i dont have the money to take it to another dealer so ill just have to live with it.still wondering why this mower had an aftermarket belt on it when i bought it new.obviously when this guy at boynton tried to remove blade from top of machine shows me they dont know what they are doing and me the customer has to suffer because of it

[eXmark]

Promo,

Give me a call at 800-667-5296 and I'm sure we can find a way to get your machine fixed.

Thanks

Terry

[ProMo]

It finally dried out here looked under the machine and didnt see anything loose seems like the blades arent spinning fast enough also the adj under the deck is hitting the frame with new belt on and its not showing tight enough according to the indicator

[JJOHN22042]

Call Exmark before you kill your Mower beyond repair. They will stand behind the Product. Save yourself some STRESS.

[ProMo]

Its no longer under warranty i tried to have it fixed when it was and was told there was nothing wrong with it

[Russo]

Promo.....scroll up a little and call Terry if you haven't already. He said that he would find a way to get you fixed!

[eXmark]

Promo,

Sorry for the delay. I talked with the engineer who helped develop you the clutching assembly on your mower. From the information your giving us there's got to be something loose, bent or broken in the PTO engagement mechanism or you have the wrong belt.

If for some reason you've got an automotive or farm grade belt on the PTO (short belt) there is simply no way it is going to work. In fact it should be making an awful racket when engaging and possibly smoking profusely. The other possibility is a failed or component in the PTO assembly. If that's the case and you can't find it then we really NEED to get your machine into a dealership for inspection. Not only is this important to diagnose the problem but if there is an issue with the PTO assembly you may not want to tackle the repair yourself. It's may not overly difficult tp repair but it is time consuming and requires some patience.

I realize that you may not have a great deal of faith in your dealers technical abilities at this time but sometimes a second opinion or second set of eyes can be helpful. Besides you've been fighting this way too long. We really need to get the unit in to an Exmark dealer ASAP. In my opinion that is going to bring the quickest end to your cutting issues. No matter what it costs it's got to be cheaper than fighting the problem for 30+ days.

Your mowers designed and built to cut grass. If it's not cutting grass, we can fix it. In order to do that we may need to get it into an Exmark dealer.

Thanks

Terry

PS: I went out and looked at one one line and if you can tell me if the indicator is hitting on the underside of the frame or the back of the frame it might help us figure out what's going on.

[ProMo]

the arm is hitting the under side i havnt replaced the short belt i only replaced the deck belt

[eXmark]

Promo,

If it's hitting on the underside of the engine deck then something is not right. The PTO arm should be parallel with the engine deck. For the indicator to hit the engine deck either the indicator is bent or the arm is not longer parallel.

Also the bolt and pin should line up ONLY when you are looking at them through the hole in the back of the engine deck. They will not line up if your looking under the engine deck.

You will simply need to visually inspect the indicator to see if it is bent.

To inspect the pivot arm you'll need to release the deck belt tension by simply slipping the deck belt off of one of the deck pulleys. Once this is done, with the PTO in the disengaged position reach under the engine deck and see if you can get any shake out of the pivot point for the PTO arm. If you do then you've most likely found your problem. While or looking at it go ahead and double-check all of your pulleys for straightness, make certain none of them are damage.

If all this checks out then the only thing left to determine what is causing the belt shake is taking it to your dealer.

If we assume you've check everything and all is in good working order we can eliminate belt slippage, and begin to focus on what else can effect the cut. You may have a deck rake issue. Your deck should be set with a 1/8" rake. You can easily check this in the normal manner or because of the 4-pin set up you can quickly make a temporary change to the deck rake to determine if it makes a difference. Simply add a heavy washer to the front deck height adjustment pins to raise the front of the deck slightly. If you notice a change in cut for the better then doing an actual measurement of the deck rake is imperative.

Give me a call.

Thanks

Terry

[ProMo]

will the small belt have any effect on the tension indicator ?

[eXmark]

Promo,

Yes it will but it will not cause the indicator to hit the underside of the deck. If you use the wrong belt it could stretch to a point that the PTO adjustment could no longer compensate.

Terry

[eXmark]

Promo,

Here are a few other things that you can check to help us help you with this problem unit.

First I would check to make sure that your engine is running at full RPM. I don't know what size engine you have regardless your RPM should be around 3600 full throttle without the blades engaged (+or-50). With the blades engaged full throttle it shouldn't drop more than 150 RPM max. Also make sure you are getting full throttle and the choke plate is fully open.

On the left side of the machine (standing behind it) we have a bellcrank. Make sure that the bolt going through it is tight and the nut is still on it. I have seen some units this has come off or become loose. Also that bellcrank has a grease fitting that many people don't grease.

Now on the clutching arm look at the brake hub that your belt was riding on and tell me if it is parallel with the brake band in front of it. If it is not your pivot has come loose on the right side of your unit. Either the pin come loose or the top anchor for pin is loose. Also on that pivot there is a grease fitting that people forget about.

As Terry stated above give us a call. This would be much easier over the phone. IF you want me to call you give me a number and I will call you whatever time you need me to.

fred.fugett@exmark.com

Thanks, Fred.

[PaulJ]

Fred

If the machine was bought new,
and if this problem began wihile still under warrenty,
or was a problem from the begining,
and if he reprted this problem to an Exmark dealer (or two) while still under warrenty.(It sounds like he did),
and if the dealer failed to correct the problem then
Shouldn't this be taken care of undr warrenty?

It's the dealers fault for not diagnosing the problem at the begining.

It sounds like this machine might not have been quite right from the begining. NO precleaner on the airfilter???, non factory parts like belts???? Just aounds fishy to me.

One more thought. If the machine worked well with the belt ridding on the drum below the pully, Could the whole drum/pully assembly be on wrong, like pushed onto the shaft to far??
jUst a shot in the dark.

I hope this machine gets taken care of for terry's sake.
I to have felt the bite of buying a lemon and not getting and support from the so called dealer that sold it to me.
good luck

[ProMo]

yes i took machine to dealer when machine was under warranty and was told it was the cutting conditions and there was nothing wrong with the machine.I also took it back to same dealer when the belt was shaking violently and was told that is normal belt is not shaking much now but still leaving a lot of grass sticking up.machine does have a rough idle because of running without pre filter im on my 4th filter and put the pre filter on and am not getting dirt on main filter any more i do blame the dealer for my problems buying a new machine with an aftermarket belt no pre cleaner being told theres nothing wrong with it etc etc ive lost faith in this machine still cant put it in another shop because my truck is having trans problems and my blower needs replacing so ill just have to live with it would sure hate to see this machine put me out of bizz after 10 years but then again my luck has been bad lately

[ProMo]

heres a pic showing grass doesnt show how bad it really is

[eXmark]

Promo,

Call me at 800-667-5296. If you can't get ahold of me e-mail me at terry.eckert@exmark.com and I'll call you back after hours.

Again I realize you may not have much faith in the dealer you bought it from but I'm still unsure why you can't take it to another dealer. Call me. Please.

Terry

[ProMo]

Terry thanks for the help the distributor called and ill be taking machine to him on friday

[SLS]

Man, this thread is just breaking my heart! :cry:

I bought a Turf Tracer HP (36" & 15 hp Kaw) w/ECS a couple of months ago and it is SWEET. Perfect cut. Perfect stripe. Smooth....ZERO vibration. Lots of power. Very responsive. A FANTASTIC machine....just like my Lazer Z.

After having used this machine (and knowing it's capabilities) it is just killing me to hear how Promo's machine is behaving.

What REALLY kills me is that his dealer told him that "everything's normal"...NOT! Promo has not seen the full potential of this machine...apparently from 'day one'. :cry:


Hang in there, Promo....Exmark is gonna find a way to get that machine 'up to snuff'. Your machine is one of the best in the field...I swear...it just needs some EXPERT TLC to straighten it out.

If the same clown at your dealer (who pulled that blade-changing stunt) had anything to do with the final assembly/set-up/adjustment of your machine that is probably the root of your problems.

The Turf Tracer HP really is a fantastic machine. You'll see! :)

Don't give up on her yet!

[ProMo]

got the mower back today guy said he took pulleys off and put them back on replaced the blades and belt i just replaced,sounds like he set eng speed a little higher then he said i have a twisted front frame and it looks like the machine was rolled because of the handle being higher on one side. I dont see anything i could have done to twist the frame and i believe the handle was always bent because ive never had to adjust the controls wich would have been affected. from the scratches on some of the new equip at the dealers last time i went there it makes me wonder.Any ways i have magic marker on the frame left front 3" right front 3 1/4" left rear 3 1/2" right rear 3" measuring the blade distance i guess ill never see the perfect cut but i guess i learned a lesson never to purchase from the lowest price dealer again

[SLS]

Man, oh man.... :cry:

Yep, I would say if you did something to bend that assembly you would remember it! That would take one hell of a lick to bend or warp. Could be someone demoed it and climbed a wall or took a nose dive...of maybe dropped it during shipment. Whatever did it...it was LOUD! Are there any sighs that the front assembly has had the paint touched-up?? Most Exmark dealers carry the Exmark Red spray paint...and on new equipment (before it starts to fade) it matches up nicely....if you catch my drift.

I wonder what the front frame assembly would cost to replace?

I went out and looked at mine and noticed it was a simple "H" shaped tubular steel piece that bolted on to the engine platform on each side.

If I were the dealer I would just replace it for you 'under warrenty' in order to satisfy you, and keep my company in good standing. That piece can't be that expensive.

I HATE this for you, Promo! And I HATE this for Exmark too. That is a very sweet machine to be in such a sorry state. :(

Hey Exmark!,

Do you guys make a jig for straightening out these frames? You know, like the ones for the decks? Just wondering........

[ProMo]

these guys sell nothing but scratched up equipment that they store outside under a cover distributor said they just had one stolen i told him if he thinks i rolled this machine wich I think he was implying he needed to go to this dealer and look at all the nice shiny scratched up equipment.I went by there last night and they practically stack them up on top of each other to fit them in the fenced in area this whole thing is leaving a bitter taste in my mouth

[ProMo]

not much better guy told me i would be able to adj belt when it wears but the turnbuckle is touching frame the way he set it up pretty much the same way it was before i brought it in the adj on the control rod he has bottom half all the way to last thread so if i tried to adj as it is it will just show threads on bottom half and lose some on top half because of the reverse threading so ill have to take it off and thread both halves evenly and the bottom half of the bolt on turnbuckle is still only going to the middle of the indicator looks like its more than 1/16"

[ProMo]

not sure wich pic i just posted took one of turnbuckle and one of indicator

[ProMo]

The dist suggested that i put washers on the low side of the deck to get it level and this wont work I guess he doesnt know this machine if i put a washer on one side it moves the whole deck and I dont see how this would affect the stringers it just doesnt sound like the blades are spinning fast enough and ive driven myself crazy trying to think of anyway I could have bent the frame it just isnt possible only thing I can think of is I bought it that way. I was greatful when the dist called and said to bring my machine in and you guys (exmark)would cover it but I dont see any differences in the performance of this machine basically all they did was put a new belt and blades on it wich I had just replaced a week earlier

[PaulJ]

Come on Exmark!!!:angry:

Fix this guys ower already. If I wanted to keep my company's good name intact, He would have had a new machine already..:blob4:

These mowers are what we make our living with, the mower doesn't work, we don't get paid . that simple..:blob4:

I was considering Exmark for my next mower, now I'm not so sure.:dizzy: :cry:

[eXmark]

Gentlemen,

We hoped that we could correct the problem with Promo’s mower in a manner that would be satisfactory for all parties. In this case, however, the facts don't support our replacing the front frame under our warranty policy.

We have a machine that is almost 2 years old. Promo had a cut quality problem with his Exmark Mower, and we tried to help him over the internet. After this attempt, we suggested having the machine inspected by a different Exmark dealer in the area. Unfortunately, the machine was not taken into an Exmark dealer for inspection. We then contacted Promo and requested that the machine be taken into our distributor for inspection. Upon inspection at the distributor, the service manager believes that the unit had been rolled. He found the following:

-Problem: Front caster tires and wheel bearings in poor condition. Solution: Distributor replaced old, pneumatic tires with new Semi-Pneumatic tires and wheels.
-Problem: Machine is leaving stagglers. Solution: Replaced belt (not sure which one) that was showing signs of wear at the edges.
-Problem: Handlebar was bent approximately 4" low on one side. Solution: The distributor straightened them as best he could. From what our Distributor Service Manager is telling us, the handles are still not perfectly straight, but they're better than they were before.
-Problem: Bent indicator on the PTO engagement. Solution: Distributor replaced.
-Problem: Front frame bent causing the deck to not hang level. Solution: The best solution would be to replace the front frame. A person could readjust the links and/or washers on the deck hangers to bring the deck back to the proper setting.

We have invested time and money into helping Promo with his cut quality issues. Although this unit was beyond the warranty period of one year for the frame and 90 days for the belts and tires, we replaced or repaired several items on his mower at no charge. We did everything we could for Promo, short of giving him a new front frame and handle assembly. If there is anything else you feel you need to talk to us about please contact us at 1-800-667-5296.

Respectfully Yours,

Exmark Customer Support

[ProMo]

the distributor was implying that the machine rolled over sideways wich never happened the indicator is the same as it was before it was brought to them,there was nothing wrong with the bearings in the front tire it did have a slow leak according to the manual these tires were supposed to be sealed they were not, yes the machine rolled back on trailer and barely scratched the (aluminum)oil cooler on my dixie chopper it was the low side of the handle this would have bent it the other way unless you are behind the machine on your knees it is hard to notice, if i bent the handle how come i have never had to adjust the linkage on the hydro?why because i didnt cause this you are trying to tell me a piece of aluminum bent steel hmmmmmm the belt that was replaced was 1 week old and is still leaving stragglers i brought this machine were i purchased it while it was under warranty and was told there was no problems I brought it to same dealer after I posted here and was told again the machine is ok maybe I should go take a few pics of the way this dealer crams all the equipment in a little fenced in area as well as the scratches on some of the new equipment I have been using walk behinds for 20 years and ive never had any of these problems i guess the best thing I can do is try to get rid of this machine because you are right something does not add up

[ProMo]

ok guys im not trying to cause trouble the fact is i have never got the quality of cut i thought i was buying with this machine and when i was told the frame was bent i was real pissed ok im going to assume that somehow the handle did get bent when it took that 1 foot roll do you actually believe this bent my frame? I honestly dont believe it could have i was looking at it yesterday and the handles do flex a little but the frame is solid and I have had the conditions since the mower was new. Is the frame actually bent they measured from the blades how can i measure from the frame maybe the left rear tire was lower than the right? Im going to try to measure today if it appears bent ill try to replace it asap. The engine runs rough at times due to it running without the pre filter this is the dealers fault because it didnt come with one and i did not know it should have and the dist did not check this. The tension indicator is not lined up properly as you can see in the pics it was never bent or replaced and this was taken after i left the dist its not the indicator that was touching the deck it is the pivot arm meaning its pulling the belt as tight as it will allow yet its not lining up,I bent the control arm a little after i put the new belt on and ran out of adj room on the turnbuckle thinking maybe it was out of alignment that is when i noticed the pivot was up against the deck they replaced the control arm not the indicator.I asked the guy that worked on it if i would be able to adjust the new belt he said yes but theres no more room for adjustment as you can see in the other pic so theres something not right there the original small belt is still on the pto again can this affect the tension indicator? probably not or the dist would have replaced it if he did a quality inspection of the machine, the reason i wasnt able to take this machine to another dealer is a financial one however i would like to get this machine right the frame shouldnt affect the indicator and the dist offered no explanation as to why it was not lined up like the decal to the right of it so if I can scrape up the money to get a new frame how will this get the indicator to show proper tension?can you guys help me to get this indicator right maybe let the dist check it again i will accept the responsabilty for the handles because if they were bent when i bought it i probably should have noticed this but is it my fault that this mower had no pre filter and ive been through 4 filters before looking in a catalog and seeing the pre filter? the dist offered to refund the money i paid for the filters and belt i told him i would be happy just to see a nice cut. ok this is going to cost me money i dont have at the time but i still dont believe it will resolve the issue with the indicator if you guys could take care of that and the rough idle of the engine i would be satisfied and work on replacing the handles and frame if it is actually bent and hopefully gain respect for this machine the guys at ls say its a good machine and i want to believe them if you can work with me on these issues you will once again have my respect thank you bryan

[PaulJ]

If I had this machine, I'd be trying to sell it (preferably to someone you don't know). And got buy one from a Dealer and Manufacturer you KNOW you can trust. JMHO

[ProMo]

im not so sure the frame is even bent i measured the tires and evened them up so they were exact then measured the frame in front of the deck it looks the same on both sides in the back the right side is slight bit more than1/8" higher than the left rear but its marked as being 1/2" higher on the left side i measured the back right next to the weld also the left front is maybe 1/8" lower than the left rear were it shows 1/2 diff were dist marked on the frame ill have to drop the deck to get exact measurements but i think i was fairly close

[eXmark]

Promo,

Lets take a different approach. The guy who checked your machine has been at it a long time. Chances are he's right. The manner in which you’re measuring isn't going to tell us what we need to know.

Lets just for kicks forget about the PTO for a few minutes. There may be a problem there but it isn't the problem we need to be concerned about right now.

Your mower as 4 adjusting pins on each corner of the deck. Each hole represents 1/2" change in cutting height. If your cutting 4" you should have one hole (I believe) left for adjustment at each corner.

Drop the front of the deck by one hole while leaving the back set where it is. Then try it and make a note of the change in the cut appearance. After you've done that I want you to remove the washer on the rear deck pins but leave them set one hole higher than the front and make a note of the change in cut that you see. You’re almost assured that you will see some type of change in either the cut quality or the cut appearance. Then let me know the results.

No matter what else may or may not be wrong with your machine you should see something by going through this procedure.

Thanks

Terry

[ProMo]

couldnt really tell much today because i just cut mine friday, I got under the machine and measured the blades from the ground front to rear they were within 1/32" on the 1st measurement then I spun each blade 180 degrees and measured again there was about a 3/16" difference from left to right

in front and rear on one side difference was 9/16" from front to rear then 5/16" when i rotated blade 180 on other side it was 9/16"(within 1/32)and 3/4 " when i rotated blade 180 giving it up to 3/16" difference between left and right hope this makes sence measuring the deck at different spots between left and right appears to be right on so i dont think the frame is bent either the new blades are bent or somehow the spindle is wobbling??????
the pto I solved its the small belt i stuck something between the belt and the pulley and when i engage i have more than enough room to adjust the bolt went way past the indicator so a new belt should solve that ill try to get one tomorrow mondays are a pain

[KirbysLawn]

Well, not sure how I got here but the reading was good. First here is a period . Please use it sometimes.

Exmark has steped beyond their call. I saw them offer a free phone call if he would call the, offered it 5 times I think. Offered for him to take it to a specific place and he did not. They have made repairs on an out of warranty mower. If it cut bad for 2 years something should have been said after week one.

[ProMo]

I will use a period when my sentence is finished providing my 1 year old is not grabbing for the keyboard,(comma)the mower was taken to a place it did not solve the problem but I am still working with exmark to get it solved they have great support going beyond there dutys and we are in contact, terry hopefully ill get those measurements tonight or tomorrow dealer had to order the pto belt didnt want to make an extra trip to get that and the new set of blades and the rain is daily here.. kirby something was said mower cuts great until the grass starts growing after my first 3 months it was taken to my ex dealer and i was told it was running correctly I have faith in the new dealer i have found turns out my cousin used to be a mechanic for this guy when he owned a bmw cycle shop my financial problems are almost over and I believe this story will have a happy ending.(period) thanks again for the support Exmark

[eXmark]

Guys,

I'll jump in here real quick. I did talk with Promo on Sunday afternoon and he's taking a couple of measurements and is going to get back with me. Even if the measurements tell us something it's a repair that he probably isn't going to want to perform himself.

Truthfully we've just about exhausted everything we can do for this machine over the telephone and over the Internet. Often we can find the problem from the factory but in this case we can not. This is to be expected from time to time.

Our next step is to find a way to get this machine to a dealership for an extended time for diagnosis and repair. We know there are a couple of things wrong and we suspect a couple of others but we won't know until we get it to a dealership.

What we don't know is will we have a loaner available and how extensive or how expensive the repairs are going to be.

Thanks

Terry

[ProMo]

ok after waiting 3 days for the pto belt and being given a trans belt I finnally got the right belt and it makes a big difference from what I can see, actually sucks leaves into the left side and gives a much smoother cut but Im still seeing a small ridge of uncut grass.It may have been from the conditions because it rained an hour before and looks mostly like its the grass being layed down from the tire and not lifting up.It went away after i started overlaping cuts by about 4 inches and I only had to cut it once.I took the measurements with new blades on and im within 1/16" all the way around on both sides to the deck and also to the ground ,the front of the blades (rake) is almost 1/2 inch lower on both sides,do you think that could cause the uncut strip? everything else seems fine even sounds like the blades are spinning faster, pto indicator is lined up perfectly with a lot of room for adjustment its an improvement so I must be going in the right direction

[eXmark]

Promo,

Sounds like we're making some headway. It would make sense that a 1/2" rake would cause some uncut grass. The tire laying the grass down in those conditions could explain a few things as well.

Are all 4 pins set at the same height or is the front still dropped one hole? The deck pins change cut height in 1/2" increments so you can correct a 1/2" deck rake temporarily by dropping the back pins one hole.

Give it a try and tell me what you find.

Thanks

Terry

[ProMo]

dropped the back and it did a lot better still seems like when i make a pass then go in the opposite direction its leaving a ridge like its cutting deeper yet its being cut by the same blade. It was a thick lawn that i usually use my other mower on other than the slight ridge it looked great . I noticed the right rear hanger has more threads showing and theres not much weight on that pin so something may be bent ill measure everything again and see whats up, at least its an improvement I should be able to get some money up to put in shop before next season:advice if you dont have medical insurance get it

[coalburner]

This is what I call trouble shooting at its best. Keep up the good work.


Coalburner

[ProMo]

today is the best ive ever seen this machine cut yet .I lowered the rear and noticed the right front was a little lower so i stuck a spacer in there and leveled up the rear i dont know whats bent were but i dont think its the frame should there be play were the front hanger goes through the frame?it has quite a bit and the front wheel bushing has a little play im thinking this is causing the right front to hang a little lower the rear has never been adjusted and one side had more threads exposed (4-5 turns)so I believe its always been like this the deck belt was shaking then it went away and the tension indicator was aligned then it showed to much tension then not enough but the cut was smooth and i wasnt seeing the ridging ive always had if it keeps cutting the way it did today ill be happy, from what the distributor marked on the deck my measurements showed the low spot on the opposite side ill let you know how it does tomorrow those are the lawns i have the most problems with.today is the first time this machine has actually dulled the blades they never got dull before so i think the tip speed is up.the carb float got stuck today so i pulled it off and cleaned it and got the popping noise out of the motor from running it with out the pre filter so i should be good there

[KerryB]

This has been some good reading lol. I must applaude Exmark for the help they have extended, however, I believe there is still one piece of unfinnished business.
Exmark I believe you should investigate this dealer. If he is indeed as shady as he sounds maybe he shouldnt be selling your products.
Maybe you should send a mystery shopper in and see if he gives you what you ask for; ie. changing the type of blades to an aftermarket brand when you ask for Exmark blades.
See if he takes care of the new mowers or just stacks them up like cord wood.
I can say I have a very good dealer here and I love my Exmark. I just think maybe you should be very choosey about who sells and repairs your product. After all its Exmark's good name he is trashing.
I would like to think Exmark cares about what happens to all its customers, new and old alike. And if this guy is as bad as he appears then he should'nt have anything to do with the Exmark name.

[ProMo]

overall the machine is cutting better not the cut i would expect for the money this machine cost vs other machines I have owned but it should get me by the rest of this season then I should be able to put it in the shop before next growing season,ive done all I can do.

[ProMo]

I hate my mower

[ProMo]

Terry my last 2 posts never showed up the machine did cut good a few times but then starts cutting like it did,I am baffled my last post was asking about the play in the deck at the front hangers should there be any because it seems exsessive and i was wondering if this could cause my problems. Since putting on the pto belt i am getting inconsistent readings on the tension indicator it will show a perfect alignment then after a few uses will show the belt to tight then I loosen the tension to realign it and after a few uses it shows not tight enough. Also the belt shakes on the left side when its cutting bad and when i get a good cut its not shaking.

P.S. from Promo Wife

Yes Exmark has tried to help greatly on the situation but the distrubtor said the mower had a bent frame which not only has my husband done the measureing but my father who is a trained and certified mechanic for a large mutli state equipment rental supplier, can't find were it has a bent frame. I was told by the distrabtor this is causeed by when it rolled into the dixie, but for it to have bent the frame on the exmark the dixie would have went thru the trailer for that kind of damage to have accord to the exmark. If I thought replacing the frame would help the matter I would authorize it to be done. It seems to me once it was said the mower had a bent frame all help in the matter stopped and we can get no ,more answers on the matter at hand. I had my father look at it after before and after the warrenty because taking into the shop did nothing but waste time and money, and he has looked at it since the distrubator and can not find anything wrong with the frame. Why does the mower keep missing a strip of grass like it is not getting enough suction to pull the grass up to be cut? I think the customers service from Exmark has been great but it seems like after the disturbator look at it all ended and we are left with the same situation we had. We have been dealing with same issues with this machine for 2 years now, changing dealership hasn't seemed to help matters, taking it into the distrubator hasn't hepled either. I personally have had with the local represention is very bad. My husband is wanting a new mower, the other 36 lasted over 8 years. I want this mower fixed because financially things are very tight and we are trying to restructure the business and take care of a family on a single income.

[eXmark]

Promo,

Not sure about the other two posts, I was out of the office late last week. I apologize for any inconvenience. Wear in the front hangers usually indicates that nylon bushing is shot and needs replaced. This is normal for a 2-year-old unit with a good number of hours on it. If replaced in a timely manner it’s not a big deal. You can also rotate the bushing a ¼ turn every now and then to extend the life as well. Once the bushing is worn however it needs to be replaced. If you don’t replace the worn bushing you can then cause wear to the metal plate that it is mounted in and once that process starts the bushings don’t last nearly as long. I don’t see how any looseness in this area could cause the issues your seeing but we learn new things every day.

The need of adjustment on the PTO belt is normal for the first 20 hours on that particular belt. I apologize I had thought we covered this in our telephone conversation a while back. Here’s the scoop. All belts but this particular belt must seat in when they are new. This seating in process involves wearing in, like an engine and stretching just like a new pair of shoes. This particular belt must absorb a great deal of torque and load upon initial engagement and thus it is designed with different seating in characteristics. Although it does stretch a great deal at first it will settle in after about 20 hours and you should see excellent life from it. The additional adjustments and allowances for the seating in of this belt simply make it last a great deal longer than any other belt design we’ve tested in this particular application.

Mrs. Promo: I don’t really know how to say this gently. It’s never easy give bad news or to say no. I’ll try to be tactful but to the point is sometimes best.

First no, we can not replace your unit. Second any repairs would and should be at your expense. Third, as I stated in an earlier post the only way to get all the issues resolved with this machine is to get it to an Exmark dealer for an extended period of time. It does not need to be the dealer you purchased the mower from. I can not estimate how much it will cost or how much time it will take to diagnose and repair your unit either. We may get lucky and find that most your issues have already been covered but we will never know until we can have it inspected by a qualified technician. This may take longer than the few hours spent with the distributor, it may take a great deal longer. The issues we’ve diagnosed thus far that you and Exmark agree on have all been wear items or damaged items and could not have occurred from anything other than use. The point being that even if there were some factory defect that has gone undetected for this long we’ll probably need to fix everything else before we can even find it.

I wish that if you were having an issue with your machine since it was new that one of several Exmark dealers in your region were aware of it. I wish that our distributor, factory sales rep or all of us here at Exmark would have been aware of it sooner. Even if it would have been with in the first 12 months it would have helped. At 2 years your mower is out of warranty. From the wear your machine has you’ve obviously been using it extensively and getting performance that was satisfactory for 2 years prior to expressing any concern.

Please, if your mower is not performing properly get it to a qualified technical rep and have it inspected, replace what needs to be replaced and get it back up and running properly. We will be more than happy to provide the Exmark dealer of your choice with all the technical support we can muster. We will be more than happy to ensure that any parts you need are delivered in a timely manner just as we would for any product whether new or 20 years old.

If it is still unclear why your mower is not being covered under warranty please call me. If you are not sure where other Exmark dealers are located in your area please call me. I can not emphasize enough how important it is that you get your mower into an Exmark dealer to have it gone through top to bottom and front to back.

Thank you

Terry

[ProMo]

never would I have expected this machine to be replaced unless it was 2 weeks old and the problem wasnt solved. .The machine has about 200 hrs after calculating the time it takes each job I use it on.My main concern is the belt shake on the left side going to the deck do you have a diagram of the pto you could send me? I noticed the hydro belt is on the same assembly as the pto belt so ill replace that and probablly the idler pulley on the deck wich seems like it has exsessive play .are there any carb or engine adjustments that can be made I am going to have my father in law look at that end hes koehler certified but has never worked on kawasawki also there is a small amount of play in the left spindle when the belts are off. I would like to find a 36 to demo and compare it to I could probablly solve most of the problems by listening to a mower that cuts correctly,Prior to putting it in for repair I want to replace all the wear parts bushings etc and hopefully I will correct the problem I never expected this machine to be covered under warranty, the distributor called and told my wife it would be, I have always done all the work on my other machines the only thing different with this machine is the pto so If i can get a better understanding of that I might get a little more accomplished in diagnosing this mower

[eXmark]

Promo,

Sorry I misinterpreted "My husband is wanting a new mower, the other 36 lasted over 8 years. I want this mower fixed because financially things are very tight and we are trying to restructure the business and take care of a family on a single income".

Just sounded like the Mrs. wanted us to replace the mower. No problem.

If the performance of the mower has gotten worse than it was a week ago and the PTO belt is out of adjustment that should be the first place to start.

Since your father-in-law seams to have some experience with equipment repair please have him check the underside of the mower deck. I know you’ve already checked a couple of these but a second opinion couldn't hurt.

1. Blades tip to tip, rotate 180 degrees and check again. They should be with in a blade thickness from touching each other and being level.

2. We probably need to know the exact cutting height of each blade as it relates to the other. Use an actual blade height-measuring gauge, it'll be the most accurate and simplest method. You'll need to know the cutting height of four points, front, back and each side for each blade from one tip. Then do the same for the other tip.

3. Place a straight edge on the topside of the spindle pulleys. You’re looking for a warped deck.

4. Measure from the tip of the blade to the roof of the deck (deck must be very clean). Do this for each tip. Your looking for bent spindles. In the last conversation we had I was getting some indication that we may have a bent spindle. Perform this measurement ver carefully because the only other way to check them is to remove them.

5. Look at your deck pulleys. You want to make sure that they are not shiny in the bottom of the groove. This is one that I had not mentioned yet. If the pulley is shiny in the bottom of the "V" then the pulley is worn. I believe you have the cast iron pulleys (not sure) which can wear quickly if sand gets imbedded in the belt.

6. Have your father-in-law call me if he has any questions.

7. Comparing your machine to another is the best idea I've heard yet. Not only can you compare the cut but the set up as well. Look at deck rake, actual cutting height etc. If you spot a competitor on the street with one, take a look at his; go to a dealer etc.

8. Once again if we are going to get this resolved it really needs to go into the shop. I understand you want to fix what you can but be cautious that your only replacing what needs to be replaced or you may find it would have been less expensive to take it in right away.

There has got to be something that is getting overlooked. Have your father-in-law look at these and then have him call me.

Thanks

Terry

[ProMo]

father in law will look at my mower in a couple of weeks ,i got under it with the blades engaged at low speed and the back pto pulley appears to be wobbling a little ill look into it more this weekend when I sharpen blades what would cause this ? and would that cause my problems. It has to either be this or the idler pulley on the deck causing the belt shake. I only looked at it for a second today when i noticed it and will look into it further this weekend if the tropical storm does not bring to much rain

[TLS]

All my mowers' belts shake. And at idle, they have shook enough to come off the pulley! Remember, these are LONG belts, with relatively light tension on them. They're going to shake. As long as they drive the deck 100%, then your OK.

I've seen mowers, bent, mangled, flat tired, rusty, reverse pitched, dull bladed, cutting just fine. Maybe a little crooked, but cutting grass nontheless! Something is wrong, and with a proper trained technician, he should be able to spot it real quick.

Take a drive someday, and like others said, COMPARE it to a new one. ANY dealer will let you take it out in the parkinglot and measure away. Maybe ask him to cut some grass with the new one, and yours to determine just how bad it is. Make sure you take notice of what blades it has, and the height of cut.

I just cant believe a mower can be so screwed up for SO long, and nobody can figure it out?

[eXmark]

Promo,

You got under it with the blades engaged at low speed?

I’m not really sure what you mean by that but it doesn’t sound like something we’d recommend.

Issue at hand. Belt shake can be caused by bent pulley's, debris in pulley's, belts with a high or low spot on them, worn bearings, misalignment, unbalanced pulleys as well as many other foreign substances on the belts or pulleys. If the pivot for the heavy engagement pulley arm is damaged this could cause some issues as well. In addition on some machines you can see additional belt shake due to the harmonics of that particular engine. All rotating components send out a vibration or wave or something as they spin. It is possible to get a combination of vibrations that begin to work in a rhythm to cause belt shake as well. In your case I might verify that the bottom of the "V" isn't shiny on any of the pulleys. If the belt is bottoming out in the pulley due to wear of one or more of the components it could cause some strange things to occur as well.

I don’t know what else we can have you check. It really sounds like you’ve got several issues occurring and we need to get into a dealer long enough to get them all addressed.

Thanks

Terry

[ProMo]

I was looking under the back side the pulley with the short belt seemed to have the slight wobble, another thing I have noticed is that when its cutting good wich today it dit it will suck leaves into the left side of the deck and when its not cutting good it is blowing the leaves away from the left side not sure if this means anything. I am going to take a good look at it this weekend also when the belt shakes its not slight the deck belt is moving a good 6 inches back and forth. I need to get a new hydro belt because it looks like that might affect the belt tension indicator. by the time I get through with this thing I should be an expert sorry but after I saw what the mechanics did to this and my other machine I just dont know if i can trust them. I was looking at the other dealerships mechanics and they are kids, there is one other dealer I am going to try its a little further away but may be worth the drive

[65hoss]

Under it with the blades running???????????? Have you lost your mind?

One of the members here is a local fireman. I was talking with him on the phone a few weeks ago and he said he just came back from a call. Guy that had been cutting for several years had disconnected the opc switches. Had the blades running and stuck his hand under the deck to change the height. Guess what happened? Don't lose your life over this mower.

[eXmark]

Promo,

I doubt the hydro belt would effect any of the other belts. Any vibration caused by this belt should be isolated from the others because the engine should be bolted solidly in place.

Please read the post from 65 Hoss.

Let me know what dealer your taking it to, when your taking it and I'll give them a call.

As far as the dealer with the younger techs, we'll never know if they are any good if we don't give them a chance to try. Doesn’t let age or the appearance of youth fool you. Some of our best techs in our engineering lab are much younger and much more knowledgeable than I am. At least in regards to lawnmowers they are more knowledgeable than I am.

Please don't take this the wrong way but I assure you that if any one of our dealers in your area (including the spindle nut guy) had been looking at your mower as long as you've been trying to fix it we would have results by now. Please don't discount the abilities of our dealers in your area. They do a good job for the vast majority of their customers. They are not perfect and they do make mistakes just as all of us do but when they can't get something figured out the call. When we get that call between them, us and the distributor we always get results.

Thanks

Terry

[ProMo]

mower would not start the other day It wasnt getting any spark i checked /bypassed all of the switches and nothing. I took it home and was going to get a new coil and gave it one last pull and it started right up,also when i got stuck in the rain it started running on 1 cylinder and has done this a couple of times since in dry weather is it possible that the coil has been mis firing for some time unnoticed and is starting to go out?

[eXmark]

Promo,

I trust you reconnected the safety system? If not we would recommend it.

As far as the issue of not starting goes the only thing you can really do is visually inspect everything, or have your dealer visually inspect it and look for any damaged components. More than likely you'll just have to wait until the issue occurs again and then get it to your dealer ASAP for diagnosis. Be patient with your dealer however because if it isn't acting up and he can't duplicate the problem he can't fix it. As far a miss in the engine goes I'd look at the plugs and wires. Usually a coil either functions or does not. It is unusual but not impossible for them to work sparatically.

Have you dealer give me a call if he has any questions.

Thanks

Terry

[ProMo]

Ive had a little more time to look at the mower and other than a couple of things that i need to replace (nylon deck bushings, Idler pulley etc i can not find anything wrong with the mechanical operations of the mower. I believe it just cant handle the cutting conditions when the st augustine grass starts growing. When I first bought the mower it cut good then when grass started growing I had problems and was told it was running fine. When i took it to the ex dealer after starting this post I was told the same thing. Now that grass is slowing down a little im seeing a better cut in some cases. I was reading another post about a blowout baffle and was wondering if something like that would improve airflow under the deck and possibly improve the cut

[ProMo]

I am at wits end with my mower i think ill have 500 dollars next month to try and get a better cut do you think that will cover it . I would like to get a demo unit prior to this just to see how out of wack my machine is if possible. ive changed to a bi weekly schedule so i will have a week of free time on the mower. another thing i have noticed is when going back and forth (striping) one wheel mark is more defined so at a distance you see the wheel track of every other pass {bent frame?) if i cant get it going for the amount i have stated ill have to get rid of this machine. still havent recieved any complaints on the cut but to me its bad and i dont want the stress its caused me again next season ps the blowout :cry:

[eXmark]

Promo,

I'm not sure what it will cost. You'll probably need to contact your dealer for actual cost of the parts and an estimate of labor charges.

Where ever you take it PLEASE have them call me at 402-223-6358.

Thanks

Terry

[ProMo]

not even a guess to the charge ? in 20 years ive never had to put any machine in the shop so I have no idea what to expect o well ill see if i can get it in somewere for an estimate and if the frames bent i will replace that myself and then let them see if it needs anything else hopefully ill be able to start a new thread "great cut"

[Brieldo]

Im curious as to why this wasnt done in the first place. After a certain point, you reach the point of no return in terms of repair...the more you try to fix, the more you end up breaking things or trying in futility. Take it to your dealer and have him call eX and figure things out...dont waste your time working on the machine in an attempt to pinch pennies...this has gone on far too long....just my $.02

[HOMER]

Man..........I was sooooooooooo looking forward to the outcome after spending the last 30 minutes reading this!!!

Way to go Exmark, you've done a remarkable job dealing with this issue. I have one you can work on now but I'll start it in a new thread.

[John Gamba]

Man..........I was sooooooooooo looking forward to the outcome after spending the last 30 minutes reading this!!!

Way to go Exmark, you've done a remarkable job dealing with this issue. I have one you can work on now but I'll start it in a new thread.


Homer this was in 02

[HOMER]

I know I'm way behind but what a story!!

So...........did it ever get fixed??

[John Gamba]

I know I'm way behind but what a story!!

So...........did it ever get fixed??


I dunno......... good morning

[HOMER]

Good morning, hows life been treating you?

[John Gamba]

Good morning, hows life been treating you?


Better then usual. Yourself?

[HOMER]

Not too bad, ready for spring to get here!

[John Gamba]

Not too bad, ready for spring to get here!


You and me Brother

[brucec32]

Promo,

I'm sure the Exmark guys will say similar,....

Not many mowers can even attain a 4" cut height to begin with, so feel lucky that you can get it to go that high.

Next, not many people cut turf at that 4" height. This is simply too high to get the proper suction of the blades to stand up the blade of grass to be cut.

Finally, of all blades to be using when your complaining about cut quality.....GATORS??? They simply can NOT produce the lift necessary to attain a QUALITY 4" cut.

My suggestion, try a set of the new Excalibur high lift blades and then consider lowering your cut to 3.5" or so. Also make sure your engine is capable of at least 3600 RPM.

I'm not going to touch your other complaint items, as I really cant comment on them.

Good Luck!

It's St. Augustine, it doesn't need suction to stand the grass up. That stuff is so stiff it crunches when you walk on it. And 3.5" is too low to mow it at certain times of the year and with many cultivars.

I mowed my own St. Aug lawn at over 4" for a year with a lazer with no cut quality problems. It was the easiest stuff I've ever cut. The Bahia, on the other hand....

As for the original post....the belt movement sounds very much like a chunk missing out of a worn belt to me. And I he already found the ungreased idler pulley problem already. That's another common one.

[ProMo]

that machine needs a new motor but still used about once a month for a retention pond were the stander wont go. The air filter is in a bad place with all the dust using a mulch kit. The cut did improve after I replaced the coils one of them was misfiring.