Pissing people off?

[Ajays]

How do you set up clients on a contract without pissing them off? I'de like to start setting up new clients on contracts cause this drought is killing me. The problem is that people around here don't want to pay for work not done. I have mentioned the concept to a few clients and they told me they would never sign a contract. How do you go about doing it?

[TJLC]

With every new customer I pickup, I offer them both options: by the cut or monthly. I let them decide. Most of them choose a monthly contract. It really does not matter to me one way or the other as far as residentials go. My commercial contracts carry me through the slow times.

[Ajays]

Is there any way you can politely request clients for contract basis... residential?

[horseman201]

Some of you guys will say I am crazy but don't worry with a contract if the people don't want to sign one. A contract is just a piece of paper. Every lawyer in the world will tell you that all a contract will do is slow things down in court. People can get out of a contract if they want to because there is always a hole in the things anyway.

[awm]

boy when i read this title,i thought .finally something i know somethin about. p------
people off. but i cant get mine to sign
contracts ,so striking out again:)

[proline32]

I gave up trying to get folks to sign contracts, heck you can't even get them to sign the estimate aggreeing to a price, so now I just give them a business card with a price scribled on the back for the cost per visit...... saves me money on estimate forms .

[yardboyltd]

lol awm

[bobbygedd]

last year i started a few people on contracts, this year almost all r on them. i dont ask my long time customers to sign, but new ones do. i personally think it is very important to have them. on a few occasions ive tried to file a complaint with the police on deadbeats, and they always ask the same question:" do u have a contract? no, well, not much we can do..... i believe getting people to sign is all in the way u aproach the subject, and how u word your approach. never, ever use the word" contract". i say "service agreement". anyhow, im about 28 for 30 on this over the last 2 years. one lady i gave option # 2, leave me cash every week. another, i told to kiss my butt! im finding it very easy to get them to sign

[marcie]

I haven't used contracts in the past but I am interested in giving them a try and not just to carry me through in slow times but I just hate it when a client decides they are going to cut back on their expenses and decide to only have their grass cut every other week.............. my name is on a job that looks awful half the time and of course they still only want to pay for the "one cut" yet you are either stuck cutting several times to make it look good or you leave grass laying............ what to do big problem is the cheap clients usually have big mouths and a large audience.......... so you look like the bad guy no matter what

[John Allin]

If you think you can, or you think you can't......

You're right.

It's a mind set of how you will do business.

[brucec32]

I charge a little extra if it's a lawn that i can mow 2x a month rather than 4x. But that's only IF I can do it w/o a lot of extra work.

The best policy I find is to mow it when it's supposed to be mowed, period. That means 4x in march-May here, maybe 3x in June, and 2x in July-August., if there's a drought etc. I find trying to force a customer to pay for weekly mowings that arent' needed doesnt' work, you just wind up charging less per mow than it's worth with "by the month" billing.

The key is to smooth your workload out. It's tough. Use the extra time in summer to do shrubs, aerate, mulch, etc.

An example. My per-mow rate on one lawn is $60. It will need mowing a total of about 32 times. Total he pays is $1920/year for the basics. My predessesor mowed it for "only $200/month" (and didn't even edge the Bermuda!). But he required payment 12 months a year. Well, here in Georgia, that mean that he was blowing the drive off basically and killing time on-site for the rest of the hour or so each week, for about 3 months in winter for the price of mowing the lawn. His total for the year was $2400.

Nice if you can get it, but I find most people object to sending you a check for the lawn when there's snow on the ground outside. I also enjoy having more time off in the winter for travel, etc. I make a little more "per mow", but don't get the padded income in the winter. It all evens out, but I find my way an easy "sell" to customers, rather than contracts and year-round service.

[brucec32]

Originally posted by Ajays
How do you set up clients on a contract without pissing them off? I'de like to start setting up new clients on contracts cause this drought is killing me. The problem is that people around here don't want to pay for work not done. I have mentioned the concept to a few clients and they told me they would never sign a contract. How do you go about doing it?

Aha! The ultimate problem in this business! I never could figure out in my head how people agree to pay year round, and I've never had one request for it in 11 years, so I just mow about 9 months a year on a per-cut basis, with extras charged by the hour, and everybody's happy and I get a couple of months semi-off to enjoy life in the Winter. Having employees makes this a tough strategy, though. So I don't. I guess I can probably charge 10% more per-cut because I don't insist on a contract.

A lot of guys make their money by charging a "one fee covers everything" monthly price and manage to look cheaper in the Spring ($100 monthly charge vs. my $120 for 4 $30 cuts) while making it up in the Winter when they effectively get $25 for waving a blower around in February for 5 minutes. I guess it all evens out, but I've seen guys get a lot of complaint calls over misunderstandings about this and just try to avoid it. If I make a little less money, so be it. I have less stress.

[brucec32]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bobbygedd
last year i started a few people on contracts, this year almost all r on them. i dont ask my long time customers to sign, but new ones do. i personally think it is very important to have them. on a few occasions ive tried to file a complaint with the police on deadbeats, and they always ask the same question:" do u have a contract? no, well, not much we can do..... i believe getting people to sign is all in the way u aproach the subject, and how u word your approach. never, ever use the word" contract". i say "service agreement". anyhow, im about 28 for 30 on this over the last 2 years. one lady i gave option # 2, leave me cash every week. another, i told to kiss my butt! im finding it very easy to get them to sign [/QUOTE

From what I know about business law, isn't any service performed and billed later(or before) a civil matter, not a legal one? I'd doubt the police would get involved at all unless you were mowing lawns and getting paid on the spot (like a gas station drive-off, sort of)

[brucec32]

Originally posted by marcie
I haven't used contracts in the past but I am interested in giving them a try and not just to carry me through in slow times but I just hate it when a client decides they are going to cut back on their expenses and decide to only have their grass cut every other week.............. my name is on a job that looks awful half the time and of course they still only want to pay for the "one cut" yet you are either stuck cutting several times to make it look good or you leave grass laying............ what to do big problem is the cheap clients usually have big mouths and a large audience.......... so you look like the bad guy no matter what

Sorry for so many posts, but I am taking them one at a time. One way I found to handle these types is to work a surcharge into the price for those wanting less than optimal mowing frequency. This means you might charge $38 twice a month rather than $30 weekly. I've found that giving them the option on the quote form makes them think they're getting a good deal. Just make sure you're getting paid MORE than it's worth in extra mowing time. Most people spend too much and are often nearly broke, even the "rich guys" and think in terms of monthly payments, so if it looks lower they jump at it. I have a few lawns I handle like this and make really good money at it, even though I prefer weekly mowing and nice looking lawns. But some won't go for that.

[Flex-Deck]

I live in a small town - have some on yearly deal - We figure 24 mowings per yr. and have some on per mowing deal - the per mowing people get billed once per month, and the yearly people write a check on Oct 31. Works for me

Thanks, Brad

[GreenQuest Lawn]

Everyone signs a contract. PERIOD.

[bobbygedd]

actually, i work in about 5 different towns, and found them all to be a little different. my attorney advised me its all in the way u word the complaint. in two towns where i had trouble, the police didnt want to hear it, they said file it in small claims. in another town they said if i had some kind of written agreement, they would treat it as a theft, since i had nothing in writing, they didnt want to deal with it. in a different town, they gladly took the complaint. here was the scenerio: customer sees add in paper, calls for estimate. says he has two properties in town, needs price for both. the one property was a pain in the ***, all hill, small, couldnt even use a 32 on it, had to 21 it, corner lot, lots of edging and wacking. the other property however was a dream. wide open flat, no obstacles. i quoted the price for the pair. he calls a week later, and says go for it, but just start with the smaller(more difficult one), as i just cut the other one. then u can start with both next week. so i cut the pain in the butt lawn, then the following week, he calls and says continue with the one, but once again skip the other one, for some bull crap reason. so i do the crappy lawn again. week 3, same phone call. i decide im now done playing this game. im drive to his home(he lives at the better one) and i see that its been cut with a commercial mower. i knock, and explain that our agreement was that i do both properties. he said well, someone came in at $3 cheaper for the better property. i explain that we are done, and he owes me for two visits at the crappier lawn. he says that if i dont continue to cut it, hes not paying what he owes me. now i want his head on a platter. we argue, yell, very ugly scene. i go to the police and explain the man owes me money, and refuses to pay. i also state that i believe it was his intention from the start to steal my service. they gladly take the complaint, and document it as a theft. this idiot comes to the station just as im leaving, yelling and screaming. the cop takes us both inside, and explains to him that he should pay the bill, cus he thinks the judge will find in my favor, and slap him with a fine as well as make him pay the bill. the guy then paid me, with the understanding im to drop the charges. end of story

[coonman]

I agree with Bruce32. We keep things simple and charge per cut. We have some customers that call us when they want us out, we just work them into the schedule in the next couple of days. When they want something like hedge trimming we just quote them for that and get paid when we do it. Never had a problem. We just signed up four different residentials, all were widows in their 80's. I could not imagaine going over a contract with them.

[Envy Lawn Service]

Imagine this....

You cut at my house for $100 a cut weekly. Work is slow this week and so is the grass growth. You come by at "x" time on Thursday, as you always do, to cut my lawn.

But this Thursday I'm home from work. I meet you in the drive just as you get unloaded and say, "just skip me this week, I don't think it needs it this time. I'll call you when it needs it again."

A few weeks pass and I finally call for you to mow.

You are what $300 short now and have had an empty spot in the schedule for 3 weeks that you had to hold open just in case I called for that $100 cut.


This is the reality of not having a contract friends. :cry:

[coonman]

Envy, We have never had that problem. Almost all our weekly customers want it done weekly no matter what even when I can't hardly tell where I just mowed. We have skipped one here and there but not enough to worry about. Maybe if we had a house for 100 weekly they might think about that more. The highest res we have is 50. What size lawn are you getting 100 per cut just curious.

[CCLS]

You definately need a contract, I wouldn't even think of doing work without one. It protects you and specifically lays out your terms and conditions. Plus it locks the customer in for a season. And contracts do hold up in court, if you have them written correctly. In fact I just got done with a court case the other day over a non paying customer. The judge took one look at my contract and saw the terms and conditions clearly stated and made a judgement in my favor. It is just a smart business practice to have a written contract.

[coonman]

Question??? I am the customer and sign a contract for the season and the company does a terrible job form day one. I want to get rid of them am I bound to the contract for the season. This is why I would not sign one if I was the customer. Do you guys have and out clause if they are not happy?

[LINKSCAPE]

Have you studied business law......? If not you should because when your in business for your self its a given you'll appear in court a time or two no matter how well you perform.....someone will find a loop hole. As far as contracts go, its a "written law" in the united states that any business agreement involving $500 or more dollars must have a written contract.

[LAWNS AND MOWER]

This has been talked about on Lawnsite a zillion times. Some people use them and some don't. I for one will go on the record as never using one. I operate on a handshake. Different areas of the country will dictate whether a contracrt is needed or not. In my neck of the woods, contracts would be viewed as intimadating. Do the work, get paid. Simple as that. Other areas might dictate a contract and I don't see anything wrong with that. In 17 years, I've been stiffed for $150.

[crawdad]

Originally posted by GreenQuest Lawn
Everyone signs a contract. PERIOD.
That is great. There are a bunch of you who say that.
BUT, the question was, "How do you set up clients on a contract without pissing them off?"
You, as one who has everyone on contracts, should be the one to answer this question for us. Is that what you say to the customers? "Everyone signs a contract. PERIOD." How do they take it? What percent chase you away? I agree, that everyone should sign a contract, service agreement, whatever you want to call it. I have to sign a contract to get tires changed at Wal-mart, I have to sign for a year for a cell phone, but no one wants to sign for a lawn. Share with us, your method. Please.
Crawdad

[Equipguy]

We offer our residential customers an incentive. We price our annual contract or agreement about 10% less than a monthly agreement. And we only offer annual or monthly service. 2nd if you sign on for a year you get the last month of the agreement free. We have all of our contracts expire in December or January when were not doing weekly service on the property anyway. Also you may want to look into taking credit cards or paypal. It makes payment so easy for both you and the customer. Good Luck.

[GarPA]

A contract is not a one sided situation. Every account I have res or commercial is on contract. Have not had one person balk at it.If they did, conversation is over....period...and by the way I'm in the process of still growing the business so I dont like walking away.

First of all, refer to it as a Service Agreement. ...by clearly outlining what you will do when you will do it and how much it will cost, you will give the client some assurance about what they are buying. Some of you view these agreements as something evil.

I just had two different elderly people sign them this week...the old guy actually told me really liked "having everything in writing"...his exact words.

Sell these as an advantage...not as some evil necessity...half full vs. half empty...its all in how you approach it

[PRO PROPERTY CARE]

I am just setting up my contracts, they are worded fairly basically .
but they outline season length, 6 months. this is 26 cuts.
I give them a per cut price/per month price, and a per season price.
My per season price works out , that they are paying for less than 26 cuts.Tell them some free cuttings.
Now if we have a dry season , i make out well .But if its a rainy season , they do well.
Plus if they give a set deposit and sign befor the season starts I knock off another set percentage.
It may seem like im doing some free work, but im guaranted income for the season.
Payments on the balance are per month. (or of course, in full,up front works too)
I will show up , dureing the dry months, and may only have too spend half the time there . this leaves room for other jobs that may come up.

:dizzy:

[GraZZmaZter]

Envy

I couldnt of explained it any better! That is the reality of not having contracts. All my clients will be on contracts this year with the acception of the older ladies that ive been dealing with for 15 year and pay by the cut. Good luck all!!!!!

[Lawn277]

I guess I will throw in my 2 cents. So far in 7 years we have not yet done business with contracts. Its kinda like the cost on the card as one member described. I don't think it really matters some people are gonna stiff ya with them or without them. We charge per cut or per service. And sometime the winters are pretty lean without year round income. But they way the weather has been the last few years we have still been mowing in December, and I live in Iowa.So the 26 mowing rule is kinda out the window. I have bid jobs as a one cost per month and most people really don't like writing a check for services not performed,like in the dry months of July and August.

thanks
Rick


p.s. thanks for spell check

[ipm]

The biggest mistake I see here is the word "CONTRACT". That word makes your skin crawl.

To answer the ?.

1. Don't call it contract, call it an agreement, service agreement, etc.

2. The best way to close them on signing is to say, " Now if you will just sign this 'AGREEMENT'," and all this really states is that the potential client is giving you permission to be on their property.

If you put a 30 day term. clause I can't see having any problems with signing, and what this does is it gives you 30 days to find another account. I hope this helps, and be business about it. You can be assertive and still be very nice.

[Lawn Tek]

My biggest fear on residental contracts is , they stop paying about say Sept. What happens if they have a serious illness , or other money problems .You have already done the work , now you will have money problems . What if they up and move out ?I get paid each month , less risk on the above . With proper money management droughts, and winter can be much more liveable.

[PRO PROPERTY CARE]

in my terms and conditions, and there are only a few.I have a 30 day clause. Just requires 30 days written notice for cancellationand accounts payed too date. I have a clause that allows me to discontinure service for lack of payment.

and I like the word "service agreement" as apposed to contract

[coonman]

Last post on this subject. We have never been stiffed in six years. When we go bid a job for mowing 99.9 percent of the time we get it. The only time we lose a customer is by death or they move. Every year we turn away work in the middle of the season because we get too busy. Residential lawns are not hard to come by here. We are always around 24-28 cuts or so. We have not been to court yet. Referrals always keep us busy. This is why we don't see the need for a contract.

[LINKSCAPE]

Personally, I feel that contracts are important, because it is a written record of the work your providing. I feel that all companies should use contracts. With what you said about the customers not wanting to be put on contracts...I understand because I have had that experience. If you are a young growing business and plan to stay in lawn care, try to get all of your customers on a contract. If there are a couple customers out there who you've had a solid relationship with so far and you know they wont except the contract, dont force them to....they will in time. For all of your new customers, make a contract a STANDARD procedure. There is no reason anyone should not accept it and if they don't....screw em...find better customers. This is done by having a correctly worded contract that is not going to scare the customer away (ie. Uh we are uninsured....so if my lawn mower shoots a rock through your window....I'm not payin.") yet covers the legal obligations. If your afraid they wont except it, approach them humbly and professionally and say "Mr. so and so, So far we have not required contracts, but for accounting and billing purposes we need to for this year." Or, "we simply must have our customers on contracts with the number of new customers we have gotten this year.....for organization purposes." They might say something like they really arent comfortable with it. You say, "well we've really tried to be fair to you in the past ......and for the reasons I've told you we really need a contract this year.......I tell you what, if you are not comfortable signing it right now, just hold onto it and if you decide to stay with us this year just send it in! If you have any questions just give me a call." -It will work. The type of lawn care that you have been discussing so far is residential lawn care...peoples houses. If you stay in lawn care and develop a good reputation, in the future you might be looking into some commercial properties....here contracts are a must. Another thing you absolutely must consider is liability insurance.....some people look at lawn care like what an easy job its cake.....theres no overhead....and all theses kids are out here making a killing at $20 a lawn.....yeah right....if you estimate your real overhead with insurance, the amount of time you spend on maintenance, taxes, etc. your losing money or breaking even with cheap pricing. What Im trying to say is...Dont sell yourself short! After all your in business to make a living not because lawn care is a recreation. Lawn care deserves a professional image like other careers...so use contracts, and have insurance, and figure out what your real overhead is. Make sure to have insurance because customers like to see it-its professional looking and it protects you from that "freak accident." Peoples willingness to go on a contract will be directly related to your performance, your reputation, and how your company presents itself. Over time you you have it figured out. With that said, good luck!

[lawnworker]

Originally posted by coonman
Question??? I am the customer and sign a contract for the season and the company does a terrible job form day one. I want to get rid of them am I bound to the contract for the season. This is why I would not sign one if I was the customer. Do you guys have and out clause if they are not happy?

This would be known as non performance and Breach of Contract.:cool:

[kutnkru]

The basic premise of the agreement is merely to set up what will get done that season. This allows you the contractor to know what your schedule looks like so that you can, add or re-schedule a request as needed based on your agreements and what they leave open.

In our area I billed clients based on 32 or 28 cuts depending on how they chose to maintain their properties. They have two options – 32 cuts or 28 cuts. If they wanted the lawns bagged and the clippings removed they are scheduled for 32 cuts. If they wished to have the clippings mulched (dispersed actually -lol) they are then scheduled for 28 cuts.

When clients get all nervous as they usually do about an agreement, I simply tell them this:
Mrs. Romanowski, ALL our agreements basically do the same thing. They enable us to schedule the work our clients have requested for the year ahead of time before our season even starts. This allows us the necessary time to efficiently and effectively schedule your services cutting down on labor and office time, which in turn, keeps charges at a reasonable cost to you.

I realize that you might be thinking why would I offer 32 cuts to one client and then turn around and offer only 28 cuts to another client?? Well that’s the same thing clients say too –LOL!!

My answer for this is also simple:
“Mrs. Romanowski, I see that you are a neighbor who takes great pride in your home and how it looks to your friends and family. Therefore, if you are requesting we remove the clippings from your home to maintain the meticulous appearance you desire, we will be attending to your lawns needs for 9 months beginning in March and postponing our services in mid-November until the following spring.

If you’re amongst our organic gardening fans, whom by the way also strive to keep their properties looking presentable such as yourself, we would then be mulching the clippings back into your lawn so that nutrients may be recycled and the development of broadleaf weeds is greatly reduced. As a participant in our Grass Cycling Program we would then be attending to your lawn beginning in April and postponing our services in mid-November until the following spring just as we do for our clients whom request bagging services.

Sooo (–LOL), what you have done is described two completely different styles of mowing without insulting either taste AND basically set the ground work for a renewal of your agreement in the fall if they like your work all in about –- ohh, under 2 minutes. This also lets them know that you are an “environmental-friendly” contractor who shares their best interests in the overall value of the property. The usual response was something to the effect of “Well, at least we know you wont be blowing grass all around the place, like I see those other guys doing.”

Now, its simply up to them – either they WILL afford themselves 28 cuts or 32 cuts??
If they don’t agree with the number of cuts then you’ve spent about 5 minutes getting from your truck to this point and you can thank them and be on your way. If they DO agree to this, then you’ve now gotten to the best part, which is:

If you’re bagging the clippings it’s spread out over 9 mos or 3.5 cuts, and if you’re “mulching” you are now cutting for 8 mos --- ORRRrrr --- 3.5 cuts per month. So either way you win!!