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View Full Version : Pickup Trucks, Trailers,& DOT


MDLawn
03-07-2010, 11:13 PM
Lawnsite Members,

I think I have been understanding something wrong and I know rules and regs vary from state to state so this may only apply to New York companies but feel free to let me know what FACTS you know, not what you may think is right.

Ok, I own an 06 F-250 with a GVWR of 9400lbs and Ford's GCWR of 15000lbs leaving 9300lbs of towing, again according to Ford. The only number that is on the truck is the GVWR (unless i missed something). So lets use this scenario. Using the truck above lets say i have enough load in the bed and from the tongue of a trailer to give a total weight of 9000lbs. Now hook up a 12,500lb GVWR dump trailer loaded to 12,000lbs of total weight. Combined this gives me 21,000lbs which is way over Fords stated GCWR in their manual. Lets say there happens to be a check point where they are checking weights of any commercial vehicle with DOT#'s. Your truck is not over GVWR and your trailer is also not over GVWR but according to Ford this is overloaded due to going past fords GCWR. Is this a setup for fines, tickets, etc.....??? or since the GCWR is not listed can nothing be done?

Any insight is apprecitated.

patpls
03-08-2010, 09:44 AM
As you stated your gcvwr is 15,000lbs, there is your magic number anything over is illegal, sadly cause I'm in the same boat!!;)

ProTouch Groundscapes
03-08-2010, 09:54 AM
not sure as ive heard that gcwr really does not play a role, its just a "made up" number.

the key point here is that with your trailer loaded and hooked up to your truck you do not exceed your rear axle rating and the 9400 lbs. gvwr of the truck.

MDLawn
03-08-2010, 09:58 AM
not sure as ive heard that gcwr really does not play a role, its just a "made up" number.

the key point here is that with your trailer loaded and hooked up to your truck you do not exceed your rear axle rating and the 9400 lbs. gvwr of the truck.


You are talking about the tongue weight from the trailer affecting the GVWR correct? I have a trailer that is no where near over loading that but was thinking if I upgraded to a heavier trailer. Again I am not some moron that is going to hook up a fully loaded 16k dump trailer to this F-250. Just trying to get clarification. I was on a Ford Truck Forum and someone told me pretty much a similar thing that you have stated above but defending towing the same weight as a diesel rated 250 with the 5.4.

Thanks!

ProTouch Groundscapes
03-08-2010, 12:06 PM
You are talking about the tongue weight from the trailer affecting the GVWR correct?

yea thats what i meant.

Again I am not some moron that is going to hook up a fully loaded 16k dump trailer to this F-250. Just trying to get clarification. I was on a Ford Truck Forum and someone told me pretty much a similar thing that you have stated above but defending towing the same weight as a diesel rated 250 with the 5.4.


apparently the truck mfg's all use different methods for coming up with tow ratings but theres a new ISO standard that all will use this method sooner or later.

watch your hitch as well, i ditched my stock 12,5K receiver in favor of a Curt 18K capacity receiver hitch when i bought my 19K gvwr deckover.

we are very lucky around here, the local cops pay little attention to weight issues, depending on the city we're in, and the dot is more concerned with larger trucks. ive heard some horror stories about DOT around here, glad im not in those states!

Stonewellmark
03-08-2010, 08:16 PM
Im not sure if state DOT checks/knows manufactureres gcvwr,we're all screwed if they do. But I bet Your rear axle on the truck would be overwieght if they scaled you. I did a hydro-seeding job for a DOT enforcement (yellow trucks not state police DOT ) officer and he said that NY state troopers currently dont have the proper methods to measure tongue weight. Also keep this in mind: If trailer gvw is greater than 10000lbs than DOT goes straight to gross combined weight ( posted on door jamb and on trailer), and if that breaks 26000 a CDL-A is required. So a 9999lbGVW truck and a 16000lbGVW trailer is legal with a class d lisence. But a 11999lbgvw trruck and a 14500lbgvw trailer requires a CDL. so basicly a 3/4 ton can legally tow a 16000lbgvw trailer, but a duelly 1ton with a smaller gvw trailer requires a CDL. Sure seems like a $$$$ making scam to me. I hope this all helps, Also dont forget spare fuses, fire extinguisher, reflective triangles, first aid kit, reflective yellow safety vest, and an amber warning light. YES, IT IS ALL REQUIRED IN NY STATE!!

WHIPPLE5.7
03-08-2010, 08:25 PM
These guys can be real d*cks if they want to. Best advice is try to stay under the radar as much as possible and next time you buy a truck consider this stuff. Ditch the homeowner trucks and get something meant to handle large amounts of weight. These DOT guys can make a real bad day for you if they want to. If you get pulled over play dumb and be nice. Some can be some keystone cowboys and if you show friction they'll hook you with $5K in fines and possible suspended license.

Stonewellmark
03-08-2010, 08:37 PM
Whipples5.7 is right. Fly low but still try to be as legal as possible. I was DOT'ed this past summer with my 86 k30 chevy and my 16ft landscape trailer (with mowers/etc.) and all the trooper could find was "no roof lights on cab" and "no Business name posted on vehicle" (its required with DOT #'s) Just keep your stuff in 100% working order, and all cargo secure.

MDLawn
03-08-2010, 10:51 PM
Im not sure if state DOT checks/knows manufactureres gcvwr,we're all screwed if they do. But I bet Your rear axle on the truck would be overwieght if they scaled you. I did a hydro-seeding job for a DOT enforcement (yellow trucks not state police DOT ) officer and he said that NY state troopers currently dont have the proper methods to measure tongue weight. Also keep this in mind: If trailer gvw is greater than 10000lbs than DOT goes straight to gross combined weight ( posted on door jamb and on trailer), and if that breaks 26000 a CDL-A is required. So a 9999lbGVW truck and a 16000lbGVW trailer is legal with a class d lisence. But a 11999lbgvw trruck and a 14500lbgvw trailer requires a CDL. so basicly a 3/4 ton can legally tow a 16000lbgvw trailer, but a duelly 1ton with a smaller gvw trailer requires a CDL. Sure seems like a $$$$ making scam to me. I hope this all helps, Also dont forget spare fuses, fire extinguisher, reflective triangles, first aid kit, reflective yellow safety vest, and an amber warning light. YES, IT IS ALL REQUIRED IN NY STATE!!

Glad to see what is required. I have most of that stuff just need to pick up a few things. My dump is only a 7k lb GVWR so I am way under but was curious. I definitely do not ride around with so much in the bed or dump that the frames are riding on the axles as some do! Going back to the things needed in the cab, amber warning light? Same thing guys use for plowing? I guess with so many boneheads the state makes these laws!
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Stonewellmark
03-08-2010, 11:28 PM
Have you ever seen a dump truck with the "construction vehicle do not follow" on the back of it???? Next time you see one, take note that every single one of those trucks have an amber "snow plowing" light, usually mounted on the mirrors. It is a DOT reg that "can" be aplied to landscapers if the DOT trooper wants to. Dont forget laws are all up to enturpretation, and if its in the V & T law book a trooper or town cop can write you a ticket for it even if it really doesnt apply to "your occupation". It all sucks because just when you think your good and have nothing to worry about, half the rules change. Somewhere on the internet there is a site that sells DOT rule books, but Im sure their written so normal peaple couldnt understand them, and there updated every 6 months. And their like 70 a set (1 owner responsibilties and 1 drivers responsibilities )

MikeKle
03-09-2010, 01:39 AM
Here in KY, you could drive around town using a Ford Ranger to tow a backhoe on a dual tire dovetail trailer(if this was possible) and the police would not even stop you!! Ive seen a guy towing a backhoe on one of those huge dual tire gooseneck equipment trailers with a f250, I have no idea how that truck was pulling it, but he does it quite often and I assume he never gets stopped? It is only certain states that enforce towing laws.

MDLawn
03-09-2010, 09:04 AM
Have you ever seen a dump truck with the "construction vehicle do not follow" on the back of it???? Next time you see one, take note that every single one of those trucks have an amber "snow plowing" light, usually mounted on the mirrors. It is a DOT reg that "can" be aplied to landscapers if the DOT trooper wants to. Dont forget laws are all up to enturpretation, and if its in the V & T law book a trooper or town cop can write you a ticket for it even if it really doesnt apply to "your occupation". It all sucks because just when you think your good and have nothing to worry about, half the rules change. Somewhere on the internet there is a site that sells DOT rule books, but Im sure their written so normal peaple couldnt understand them, and there updated every 6 months. And their like 70 a set (1 owner responsibilties and 1 drivers responsibilities )

Its funny too that Joe non-business can hook up almost anything but as soon as the business sign and DOT# goes on trouble starts. I mean how many 70+ year olds do you see driving those massive motor homes with no requirements but towing a small trailer holding 2 mowers gets you in all sorts of trouble. Plus with all of NYS fiscal problems they will be going after every penny they can get! Oh well I will try and stay low profile the best I can.
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360ci
03-09-2010, 04:31 PM
DOT is very lax on checking light duty trucks and trailers here in Ontario. The DOT equivalent here is the MTO (Ministry of Transporation). Anything with dual axles has to enter a truck scale when they call for it along the highway, but around town, they hardly pull anyone over these days. Here, Police in all branches don't have the authority unless they notice something obvious, to write you a ticket for an offense. Something like running a flat bed load that's not secured they can stop you on, but for not having two 5K rated straps on a 10K load is up to the MTO whether or not to ticket you.

Stonewellmark
03-09-2010, 10:26 PM
Here in NY its crazy, I think we all know to use heavy enough straps or chains, here the DOT will write you a ticket if the (heavy enough) strap is not DOT approved. Same goes for gas cans,light lens', mirrors, etc. Hell they can even write you for unsecured articles in the cab....Hats, gloves, coats, hand tools, trash etc. its just crazy. If they cant find something easy to write you on then you usually get a "stupid" ticket like mentioned above.

360ci
03-09-2010, 10:53 PM
Hell they can even write you for unsecured articles in the cab....Hats, gloves, coats, hand tools, trash etc. its just crazy. If they cant find something easy to write you on then you usually get a "stupid" ticket like mentioned above.

Unsecured PILLOW! Ack!