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View Full Version : latest chart for power figures 11 superduty and chev hd's


ProTouch Groundscapes
03-10-2010, 11:11 AM
http://blogs.cars.com/.a/6a00d83451b3c669e201310f843689970c-800wi

major points:

-Ford will now have the most powerful gas motor on the market...Finally!!
-The new 6.7L PSD has really lowered the max hp and tq delivery in rpms
-765lb ft of tq from the new DMAX sounds awesome! tuner? what tuner...lol
-ford still bests the chevy with payload numbers and towing numbers
-Chevy really stepped up their game with the new gross ratings

White Gardens
03-10-2010, 11:26 AM
Finally Chevy stepped up and decided to beef up their standard trucks rather then try to make everyone buy a Top-Kick or a Kodiak.

From a marketing standpoint I could never figure out why they didn't try to rival ford through the years when it came to the larger trucks.

I just bought a 01 chevy 3500HD with the 8.1 motor in it. One thing I noticed is the original frame was tiny compared to a ford and all they did was add over-lay another section of frame in the center to stiffen it and get the GVWR up. All ford ever had to do to beef up their frames was to add a few more cross-members and maybe add a piece of steel to the bottom and top of the frame.

White Gardens
03-10-2010, 11:28 AM
Another thing I noticed about the power chart is that Ford is still offering the Power-stroke.

Talking to a Ford Fleet dealer, he was telling me that ford should be coming out with their own Diesel motor later this year and it's supposed to be pretty bad a!!.

Krafty
03-10-2010, 11:51 AM
Another thing I noticed about the power chart is that Ford is still offering the Power-stroke.

Talking to a Ford Fleet dealer, he was telling me that ford should be coming out with their own Diesel motor later this year and it's supposed to be pretty bad a!!.

The 6.7 is the new ford engine I think it may still carry the powerstroke name.

ProTouch Groundscapes
03-10-2010, 12:14 PM
yes it will still be called the powerstroke.

the big reason chevy stepped it up was the fact they were going to make another 1.5 ton truck to compete with the current 450 pickups but that program got cancelled so they beefed up their 3500 big time.

360ci
03-10-2010, 04:04 PM
Personally, I think things are going out of proportion. I'd get the Dodge for diesel, and the GM for gas.

TXNSLighting
03-10-2010, 04:21 PM
Another thing I noticed about the power chart is that Ford is still offering the Power-stroke.

Talking to a Ford Fleet dealer, he was telling me that ford should be coming out with their own Diesel motor later this year and it's supposed to be pretty bad a!!.

That is the new engine. They own the powerstroke name.

doubleedge
03-10-2010, 07:03 PM
Personally, I think things are going out of proportion. I'd get the Dodge for diesel, and the GM for gas.

You are assuming that the Dodge will get better fuel economy, correct? Well, Autoblog and other reputable automobile news companies got over 20 mpg during a long test drive of the new Ford diesel. Some of the test drivers got in the mid to high 20s by driving wisely.

And why GM for the gas? The new Ford gas engine will be more powerful, supposedly will be significantly more fuel efficient than the current 5.4l, and will use the same transmission as the Ford diesel will; the GM gas model will still use the hydramatic, not the Allison.

The base Ford super duty truck will be more expensive than the current one, but the upgrade to diesel is supposed to be the same.

STIHL GUY
03-10-2010, 09:30 PM
those spece are looking pretty great. i cant wait till the day i get a 3/4 ton or 1 ton truck

evanbrendel
03-10-2010, 09:42 PM
i cant wait to get a diesel this 454 drinks!!

360ci
03-10-2010, 11:19 PM
You are assuming that the Dodge will get better fuel economy, correct? Well, Autoblog and other reputable automobile news companies got over 20 mpg during a long test drive of the new Ford diesel. Some of the test drivers got in the mid to high 20s by driving wisely.

And why GM for the gas? The new Ford gas engine will be more powerful, supposedly will be significantly more fuel efficient than the current 5.4l, and will use the same transmission as the Ford diesel will; the GM gas model will still use the hydramatic, not the Allison.

The base Ford super duty truck will be more expensive than the current one, but the upgrade to diesel is supposed to be the same.

If you must know, he's my low-down! It's a long read:

Dodge for the diesel, not for fuel economy. First off I'll get fuel economy out right now. People who buy a HD truck for WORK and expect excellent mileage are idiots, sorry but for those that I offended, it's true. Ask the military guys, Because an Abrams gets 0.25mpg instead of 1mpg flat they'd rather drive a humvee into a hot zone. I think not, you buy what you need, and you pay for it and suck up the expense. Yes, that was a bit 'out there' but it's the best and easiest way I can explain the importance of a work truck's fuel economy!

Now, I'd go with the Dodge diesel because I prefer the I6 design. True, a V8 can last as long, but as far as maintenance and down time go as if I buy ANY vehicle, I buy it and keep it for as long as possible, and the Dodge rules them all on maintenance. Head gasket, only one, versus two on a V8, not to mention more moving parts, and turbo's that are set in the V which require an hours labour just to gain access to them. Not worth it when the time comes to replace parts, that's why I choose the Dodge I6.

Ford can bring what they want to the table. The 5.4L has it's share of problems over the years with heads, plugs, manifolds, coils, etc. Granted, getting a sour one is still few and far between, but when I can have more HP in a lighter truck for the same price, not to mention one with better long term reliability and one that makes a better overall daily driver, I'll take it.

The Ram HD HEMI is good in it's own right. But I'm mad at Dodge here that they skimped out on the details. 16 spark plugs in a V8 is more things to worry about, not to mention the fact they built the 6.1L HEMI with a thicker crank, and several other mentionable upgrades so as to sustain higher RPM for longer intervals (hence, high performance). The 5.7L HEMI wasn't given these upgrades, which means it'll have more mechanical trouble as the miles pile on. I currently own a Durango R/T and am on various Dodge forums. The 5.7 is a good engine overall, but I'd place it behind the Ford 5.4L, and especially the new 6.2L in this case as far as build and quality go. The transmission is the other weak part here. Dodge upgraded driveline components from axles to u-joints and they still use the same 10 year old 5 speed automatic with a 3:1 first gear.

Now I get to the GM 6.0L V8. GM trucks are the smoothest riders, and with the gas engine it offers the highest payload capacity and comes with a 6 speed auto with a low first gear. Maintenance is easy to accomplish as well as it has some of the longest intervals in it's class.

Ultimately, it comes down to personal choice and what works for a specific application. As I mentioned, The Dodge for diesel or the GM for gas is my pick of the litter, because they're the best bang for the buck trucks on the market in their respective class. Ford will obviously overprice it's 6.2L V8 truck for the first year, and I'm sure they'll have some minor problems to deal with as far as quality goes as is the same with almost all first year products irregardless of manufacturer. GM will overprice their '11 HD series for the first year I imagine as well. This will boost Dodge's sales for the '11-12 model years until the Dodge boys do another redesign to better compete with Ford and GM.

Don't forget that Toyota wants to enter the HD segment soon as well. If they do, I'm sure they'll prove to be worthy competition. However, if a HD Tundra does go on the market with the current 5.7L V8, I wouldn't buy it with that engine. Why? Because it's too advanced for the times and fixing it is a labour intensive nightmare for the pocketbook. Timing chain you say? Fork over a couple grand. Valve job? Better to buy a new(er) engine block and have it installed.

Today's newer trucks are becoming too advanced for the times. Sure, they can do the work, but the parts built by the lowest bidder is getting more and more troublesome, for both manufacturers and for consumers. Manufacturers can't help it much only because the government has control over some of the parts and manufacturing processes allowing a higher profit for a lower quality product. Not in all cases, sure, but it's a growing concern.

Even on this site, I read a lot about people who have bought a new truck in the last 2-3 years and are willing to take a huge financial hit and trade it in for another new vehicle because they've had a raft of problems with it and just can't deal with it. Sad to say but chances are they won't have much luck with a new truck, and that's a hard sell to someone who HAS to have the best and latest equipment on the market, as it's not always the best thing to do.

I believe in strong maintenance procedures and adhering to the appropriate schedule for vehicle service. I currently own a Ford car, Dodge SUV and a GM car and have had minor problems with them all. From a faulty seat belt return spring (Ford Taurus) to stitching coming off the rear seat (Pontiac G6) when it was only two months old. My Dodge has had similar problems but I've worked it so hard that I'm shocked it still steers in a straight line without much assistance on my part.

This is the other reason I chose the GM, over Ford or Dodge. Ford HD weighs too much, Dodge needs to get their gas engine gearing in check and the GM is the only HD that makes sense with the gas engine. For the price, it also makes it hard to beat at least until the '11 models come out this fall. Then, the game changes again!

ProTouch Groundscapes
03-11-2010, 10:09 AM
Now I get to the GM 6.0L V8. GM trucks are the smoothest riders, and with the gas engine it offers the highest payload capacity and comes with a 6 speed auto with a low first gear. Maintenance is easy to accomplish as well as it has some of the longest intervals in it's class.

ill agree partly, our 2500HD does ride much smoother than my 350srw, but then again id rather have a tougher suspension b/c it is a work truck after all. GM will no longer have the highest payload, the ford with gasser will along with a 6 speed auto. Our 6.0L has had its share of problems but it sure is a screamer and builds it power up higher b/c its based on the ls1 motor architecture with a full iron block.

now ill prefer my ford to my chevy for towing anytime b/c the extra weight of the ford (8500lbs curb weight compared to 6000) does not let the trailer throw the truck around either.

and around here, the dodge was the most expensive, with ford and chevy close, but i felt like i got more truck for the same money compared with a silverado.

clydebusa
03-11-2010, 10:15 AM
Another thing I noticed about the power chart is that Ford is still offering the Power-stroke.

Talking to a Ford Fleet dealer, he was telling me that ford should be coming out with their own Diesel motor later this year and it's supposed to be pretty bad a!!.

I am thinking the same thing, Ford is not doing the International motor in 2011

So go figure on all those numbers. Plus GM has gone to 6.2 ltr motors on gas.

360ci
03-11-2010, 04:32 PM
ill agree partly, our 2500HD does ride much smoother than my 350srw, but then again id rather have a tougher suspension b/c it is a work truck after all. GM will no longer have the highest payload, the ford with gasser will along with a 6 speed auto. Our 6.0L has had its share of problems but it sure is a screamer and builds it power up higher b/c its based on the ls1 motor architecture with a full iron block.

now ill prefer my ford to my chevy for towing anytime b/c the extra weight of the ford (8500lbs curb weight compared to 6000) does not let the trailer throw the truck around either.

and around here, the dodge was the most expensive, with ford and chevy close, but i felt like i got more truck for the same money compared with a silverado.

Again, you buy to what suits your needs so yes the Ford does weigh more and should I be running a 24' trailer with full equipment and such, that might have me rethink my decision, however that's not the case on my end, which is why for the gas V8, I'd still go with the GM. Weight ultimately costs money no matter how you look at it. The more weight, the more you can expect to spend in fuel costs, maintenance, etc. Trying to limit some factors for each individuals application is why everyone will be biased in this regard. For me it's not a matter of want, it's a matter of need. When people start getting those two mixed up, that's when the trouble starts.

G. Ramey
03-11-2010, 06:15 PM
Payload and towing numbers are left up to the manufactuers. They can claim their truck will tow 50,000 lbs if they want. There is no testing organization to regulate or test towing claims. Ford always claims the highest numbers. I really don't think there is a 4000 pound difference between the ford and the chevrolet in the real world. Ford just has a bad case of mine is bigger than yours. hahaha. Seriously though I wouldn't want to tow 20 thousand pounds or more with a pickup truck.

ProTouch Groundscapes
03-11-2010, 06:27 PM
Again, you buy to what suits your needs so yes the Ford does weigh more and should I be running a 24' trailer with full equipment and such, that might have me rethink my decision, however that's not the case on my end, which is why for the gas V8, I'd still go with the GM. Weight ultimately costs money no matter how you look at it. The more weight, the more you can expect to spend in fuel costs, maintenance, etc. Trying to limit some factors for each individuals application is why everyone will be biased in this regard. For me it's not a matter of want, it's a matter of need. When people start getting those two mixed up, that's when the trouble starts.

agreed, and thats why we all live in the greatest country in the world where we get to debate which truck is better lol! competition=win for consumers

Payload and towing numbers are left up to the manufactuers. They can claim their truck will tow 50,000 lbs if they want. There is no testing organization to regulate or test towing claims. Ford always claims the highest numbers. I really don't think there is a 4000 pound difference between the ford and the chevrolet in the real world. Ford just has a bad case of mine is bigger than yours. hahaha. Seriously though I wouldn't want to tow 20 thousand pounds or more with a pickup truck.

chevy supposedly used the new ISO standards for establishing their ratings and those standards will be used by all manufacturers soon.

lawn king
03-11-2010, 06:39 PM
The new ford 6.7 diesel has the ash box, a $700. service every visit?

360ci
03-11-2010, 06:48 PM
The new ford 6.7 diesel has the ash box, a $700. service every visit?

Thank you. This is another reason why if I went diesel I'd choose the Dodge, GM and Ford require aftermarket filters and such to treat exhaust emissions, where as the Dodge does not. In regard to maintenance, it's still the better deal

clydebusa
03-11-2010, 07:51 PM
Thank you. This is another reason why if I went diesel I'd choose the Dodge, GM and Ford require aftermarket filters and such to treat exhaust emissions, where as the Dodge does not. In regard to maintenance, it's still the better deal

If you go with dodge, go with the stick. I have experience putting in 6 tranny in 2 dodges over the last 6 years. I had to jump ship. I don't like shifting so automatic is the only way for me. If you don't believe me about the auto tranny on dodges, just search and you will find. I believe there is a member on this site that put a 6k dollar allison in a dodge because he had so many problems.

grassman177
03-11-2010, 08:06 PM
you cant go wrong with the frame and suspension of the FORD. it is much heavier than the others and no doubt the reason for the heavier payload. all one has to do is look under the truck and you can see the difference with your own two eyes. ford wins hands down.

Turf Commando
03-11-2010, 08:52 PM
Chevy puts to much emphasis on their motors, while the strengh and payload goes awol....
A strong foundation is the basis for all things, even trucks...

360ci
03-11-2010, 09:56 PM
you cant go wrong with the frame and suspension of the FORD. it is much heavier than the others and no doubt the reason for the heavier payload. all one has to do is look under the truck and you can see the difference with your own two eyes. ford wins hands down.

I agree, but for what I'd require it for a Ford is overbuilt. I'd rather have a bit more engine for a daily driver/grocery getter than a dog. The 6.2 can change that, sure, but going bigger just means more weight. I had to repave my driveway once after I moved in. If I can put off getting it done again sooner than necessary by getting something lighter, I'll do that. Too bad the local street parking by law came out last year, three hour max, even overnight now ...grrr.

Gravel Rat
03-11-2010, 10:06 PM
Ford always has been a heavier built truck they have the vocational work truck market.

360ci
03-11-2010, 10:41 PM
Ford always has been a heavier built truck they have the vocational work truck market.

That they do. They offer the most options, frame lengths and some engine choices etc. If I will ever require the use a 'light' dump truck, Ford would be the one I'd go with.

As for comfort, I'd be driving this truck on vacation and such, which is another reason why GM gets my nod for better on road comfort, even after 200K. The 2500 ext cab I test drove rode better than my '00 Durango R/T, and even my Durango can handle up to 1600lb payload with the way it's spec'd from the factory. It helps with being able to put 750lbs on the trailer tongue and stil being able to carry four adults and luggage without worry about going overweight. I drive down to Destin FL twice a year for a week or so at a time, and as much as I prefer the newer Ford interior, GM is on the bland side!, I'd still take the GM.

I've never been a total fan of GM vehicles, especially with the problems I've had with my '06 Pontiac G6 GT with only 26K miles. But that's another story.

ProTouch Groundscapes
03-12-2010, 09:33 AM
i agree with you on the bland GM interior, reminds me of the impala interior!

anyways, what do you mean the ash box on the fords? the dpf?

Gravel Rat
03-12-2010, 03:13 PM
GM used to be the same with Ford and offer the options for work trucks not sure if they still do or not.

GM has made some bad changes over the years like building those ugly 4500-5500 trucks that they don't make anymore. They stopped building the 3500HD with 15,000lb gvw which is what people wanted. Now they make a 3500HD that has the light brakes and wheels nobody wants that.

If GM ever offered the monobeam front axle on their 4x4s again that would be a big seller. That will never happen thou.

360ci
03-12-2010, 04:24 PM
anyways, what do you mean the ash box on the fords? the dpf?

Ash box is is layman's term for part of the emission control system. It's a series of particulate filters and such to reduce NOX. I'm not positive, but I'm sure they also use the Urea system on the GM and Ford because the engines alone can't burn clean enough to meet some of the current emission standards. More will be known as things are put on paper of course on what they will or will not have.

i agree with you on the bland GM interior, reminds me of the impala interior!

The current Impala is a good car in it's own right, even with the base 3.5L V6. I have a similar unit in my 06 Pontiac G6 GT. The only thing I DO NOT like are the fact that the mirrors go out to a point, making them useless to use for anything but reversing straight into a tight spot with curbs. Impala has similar mirrors of course but they're not as bad. The current Malibu, I don't like the rear styling but everything else is well above Impala standards, but I'd rather have the current Malibu with the 3.5L V6. 3.6L is too much, and the 4 banger isn't enough when carrying passengers. Anyway.

meets1
03-12-2010, 09:58 PM
I like reading this thread. I have all GM currently but never new about rear end ratio's, payload - hp - tq, etc all played such a big role. I still say that a pickup is just that - a pickup - how much weight safely can a truck of a 3/4 ton size handle? If you need more then you have to move up to the 450 and up - be it ford or Gm's no longer in production trucks. Any one have the new dodge 4500 truck?

With all the hype of GM's 2011 truck - are they really still behind ford and dodge in all their ratings?

360ci
03-12-2010, 10:32 PM
I like reading this thread. I have all GM currently but never new about rear end ratio's, payload - hp - tq, etc all played such a big role. I still say that a pickup is just that - a pickup - how much weight safely can a truck of a 3/4 ton size handle? If you need more then you have to move up to the 450 and up - be it ford or Gm's no longer in production trucks. Any one have the new dodge 4500 truck?

With all the hype of GM's 2011 truck - are they really still behind ford and dodge in all their ratings?

I wouldn't say they're behind or ahead. Again, a lot of factors are in play here. If one given pick up has a GVWR of 8800, and it's wet weight (fuel, oil) is 6000lbs, then it can legally carry 2800lbs. If it's 8800lb gross vehicle weight rated, and it weighs 6800lbs, then payload drops to 2000lbs. GM, Dodge and Ford all have different weights. Ford has better matched additional weight of any given truck and thus adjusts it's gross vehicle weight rating accordingly. If you get a larger engine, the GVWR goes up about 200lbs so payload stays the same. It's all a numbers game. Ford has the most options as far as trim, cabs, beds, etc, so far they're the only ones to offer different GVWR on their trucks. GM and Dodge have a few, but it's just gas and diesel. Diesel engines weigh about 800lb more, which cuts into payload. Ford on the other hand "adjusts" their gross weight rating and increases it to what that optional engine weighs (in most cases).

Weight is everything. If you have a 3/4 ton and only put 3-4K with it regularly, then you need not worry. Over half of HD trucks are ran overloaded, as they're pulling and/or carrying too much, or just were under optioned when they were ordered by their owner, or current owner who passed their abused truck onto someone else.

360ci
03-12-2010, 10:36 PM
I'll also add that if you were to buy new at a dealer, don't always take their word over what is safe. Get them to show you the numbers for any truck you're interested in.

When I went RV shopping several years back. Two out of three dealers tried to sell me something that was one ton or more over what my Durango was legally allowed to tow (7300lbs). The dealer then didnt' factor in cargo, passengers in the vehicle, which contribute to your GCWR, or gross combined weight rating. Hitch weight is the other killer when you tow heavy. A 5000lb trailer can easily surpass 1000lb hitch weight if it's not loaded properly, and can overload your rear axle (GAWR).

A lot of sales people, even for used vehicles, are there only to sell you the product, not to make sure it works for you on a legal standpoint.

Like another guy who bought a diesel pusher motor home with air brakes, and he WAS TOLD by the dealer that no extra training was required. True story.

pitrack
03-13-2010, 12:48 PM
If you go with dodge, go with the stick. I have experience putting in 6 tranny in 2 dodges over the last 6 years. I had to jump ship. I don't like shifting so automatic is the only way for me. If you don't believe me about the auto tranny on dodges, just search and you will find. I believe there is a member on this site that put a 6k dollar allison in a dodge because he had so many problems.

Probably trannies from the pre-6.7 engines. I think the new 6-speed autos are pretty stout.

360ci
03-14-2010, 02:32 PM
Probably trannies from the pre-6.7 engines. I think the new 6-speed autos are pretty stout.

I agree, the new 6 speed auto's are almost as good as the GM Allison units. It's just a shame that Dodge doesn't get a HD trans put into their trucks. That would make it the perfect combo, HD trans and I6 diesel! Sweet deal that would be!