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JMiller08
03-17-2010, 05:37 PM
Hey guys, im going to be in the market this year for a newer truck. Im looking to spend less than 15k on a 4x4. Would like to have an extended cab of some sort but not opposed to a regular cab. So here is my question gas or diesel? It will be a 3/4 ton. What are the upsides of both. I would love to have the brute force of a diesel but not sure if i really need it? Will just be hauling a landscape trailer with a z and wb. Also will be plowing with it and would like to have a dump insert. I know gas will be a lot cheaper with lower miles however the will longetivity of the diesel be better? i would like to have the truck atleast 5 years. Say 30k miles a year. So lets just round up and say 200k miles. What are your guys opinions? What do you run and why? All help is appreciated guys. Thanks again. :weightlifter:

unkownfl
03-17-2010, 05:50 PM
Id buy a diesel but you would be hard pressed to find one with under 100k for less than 15k made this millennium. Gas would get you a nice 3/4 ton for under 15k with less than 30k miles.

JMiller08
03-17-2010, 06:02 PM
Ive looked around and really would like to find a f250 2000 and up. Within my price range they run at about 125k miles give or take for a diesel. Gassers around here im looking at around 40k or so.

unkownfl
03-17-2010, 06:14 PM
Personally I bought my diesel because I can careless what it cost I need it. Its just that plain and simple. If you always think of the cost and not the capabilities of truck then buy a gasser. I love hearing the noise and I also love going up the on ramp to the highway with a trailer behind me and blowing the doors off other sedans.

doubleedge
03-17-2010, 06:22 PM
Ive looked around and really would like to find a f250 2000 and up. Within my price range they run at about 125k miles give or take for a diesel. Gassers around here im looking at around 40k or so.

A diesel truck with 125k will run into mechanical problems much more quickly than a gas truck with 40k. They both use mostly the same components except the engine and transmission; out of those two the engine is the only component that should last much longer than it's gas counterpart.

From what you described, you probably don't need a diesel truck. The Chevy 6.0, Dodge 5.7, Chevy 8.1, and Ford v10 are all pretty good, especially during the later years. Some people have had problems with Dodge's transmissions, though, so you may want to avoid the Dodge 5.7. You would pay more to repair the diesel truck (because of higher miles) than you would save in fuel economy over the big gas engines.

Evan528
03-17-2010, 10:07 PM
Unless you really "need" the power of a diesel than buy a gas........ Diesels are just way to costly to maintain and repair these days. Once I retire my 03 Ram diesel in a couple years I think my days of diesels will be coming to an end.

unkownfl
03-17-2010, 10:40 PM
Why are repairs anymore than a gas? A Diesel is a simpler engine.

Junior M
03-17-2010, 10:44 PM
Why are repairs anymore than a gas? A Diesel is a simpler engine.
diesel parts are typically more expensive..

rstan2010
03-17-2010, 10:44 PM
A diesel truck with 125k will run into mechanical problems much more quickly than a gas truck with 40k. They both use mostly the same components except the engine and transmission; out of those two the engine is the only component that should last much longer than it's gas counterpart.

From what you described, you probably don't need a diesel truck. The Chevy 6.0, Dodge 5.7, Chevy 8.1, and Ford v10 are all pretty good, especially during the later years. Some people have had problems with Dodge's transmissions, though, so you may want to avoid the Dodge 5.7. You would pay more to repair the diesel truck (because of higher miles) than you would save in fuel economy over the big gas engines.

Dodge has improved there transmissions greatly. Those were the old trannies that had problems no the newer ones.

GravelyNut
03-17-2010, 11:24 PM
Personally I bought my diesel because I can careless what it cost I need it. Its just that plain and simple. If you always think of the cost and not the capabilities of truck then buy a gasser. I love hearing the noise and I also love going up the on ramp to the highway with a trailer behind me and blowing the doors off other sedans.

I do that too with an 8.1. And I've had people I know who've followed me say that it is loud even with a factory exhaust. :D

Outdoors_Unlimited
03-18-2010, 12:21 AM
I wouldn't buy a used diesel. Ever priced a water pump for one? And nobody towing a lawn trailer "needs" a diesel. My small block chevy has no problems with a 10k lbs trailer.
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scagrider22
03-18-2010, 01:16 AM
If your using it to pull a mowing trailer I would get a lower mileage Chevy 6.0 or a ford v-10 they both have plenty of power for what your doing. I have 3 chevy's with 6.0s not a single problem with one of them are newest is a 08 with 30k miles and the oldest is a 99 that has 360k miles with the original drive train. My ford 6.0 diesel was in the shop every 10k yea it pulled great when its was running but it was allways broke down! Ive also had one ford v-10 it was a good engine but i like the chevy better.

NORTHMAN
03-18-2010, 08:12 AM
I've had two diesel trucks,a 99 Ford with a 7.3 and currently an 05 Dodge with a 5.9,I won't be buying another diesel pickup.For what I do,pulling a landscape trailer and plowing snow the gas engines would have worked fine.Gas engines last a good long time.Diesels are expensive to buy and expensive to operate.The only time that I think someone would really need a diesel is when there towing heavy loads on a regular basis.Wanting a diesel and needing a diesel are two different things.As some others have said,find a good GM 6.0 or a Ford V-10 or even a GM 8.1 or the Ford 5.4.

Darryl G
03-18-2010, 09:35 AM
I go for gassers but I'm a low mileage driver....just can't justify the extra cost because I will likely never get a return on it. I also like being able to use one pump to get all my fuel. And I hate that you can't even fuel up with diesel without smelling like it. If I were to move up to a 1 ton dump, maybe I'd consider a diesel, but not for a pickup truck.

unkownfl
03-18-2010, 11:37 AM
6.0 Ford water pump 2.8 hours 170 for the pump
5.4 1.6 hours 163 for the pump
6.8 1.5 hours 177 for the pump
6.0 chevy 1.8 hours 250.00 for the pump

I don't see a big enough difference to make a decision of 15k sorry.

How are diesel parts more expensive???

unkownfl
03-18-2010, 11:42 AM
$1363 6.0 ford for a cylinder head
$1493 5.4 cylinder head
$1350-2800 6.8 ford cylinder head
$575 Chevy 6.0
$1475 chevy 6.6 plus 25-35 hours ouch.
All of them pay almost the same amount of hours plus or min 2 hours so thats like 200 bucks except the 6.6.

MikeKle
03-18-2010, 01:03 PM
Diesels are much simpler engines, but a normal oil change takes about 15qts of oil!! I found its cheaper to run a gas engine, unless you are towing very heavy loads. Also, everyone says diesels can run up to 400K miles and more without major engine work, but if this was truly the case, why isnt there many old diesel trucks on the road? I see a couple here and there, but not that many, actually I see more older gas trucks than diesels, so the average diesel truck probably isnt seeing those high miles? They are great if you can afford one. dont forget about all the special additives you are supposed to add to the fuel and engine.

Darryl G
03-18-2010, 01:40 PM
I just sold a 1985 truck with 87.5k miles on it...the body rusted off before it even hit 100k. I've got 37k on my 03 Silverado. I only drive a truck when I need a truck. Otherwise I drive a car.

Gravel Rat
03-18-2010, 04:04 PM
Around here you buy a diesel because you want one. Todays diesels don't get the fuel mileage they cost more to operate and they don't last your lucky to get 200,000kms (125,000 miles) out of one reliably usually once a diesel reaches 300,000kms (187,000 miles) it is close to done once you reach 400,000kms (249,000 miles) it is rebuild time but the truck is usually rusted out and scrap.

No hope in hell getting 400,000 miles 640,000kms out of a diesel you would have rebuilt the engine once and the truck would have been rebuilt 3 times.

doubleedge
03-18-2010, 06:44 PM
$1363 6.0 ford for a cylinder head
$1493 5.4 cylinder head
$1350-2800 6.8 ford cylinder head
$575 Chevy 6.0
$1475 chevy 6.6 plus 25-35 hours ouch.
All of them pay almost the same amount of hours plus or min 2 hours so thats like 200 bucks except the 6.6.

What about turbocharger prices between gas and diesel? :laugh:

DoetschOutdoor
03-19-2010, 01:10 PM
I went with diesel with 68k miles mainly because of resale value....I am going to put 30k miles on her for the next 3-4 years and then still have one helluva down payment when I go to trade this diesel in.

I was in the $20-25k price range and after comparing gas to diesel, resale value, and mileage the diesel seemed like a better rig. Im was soooo tired of getting 10mpg towing and about 12 unloaded that I just couldnt go gas again. This is my only truck though and once I have the option of having my personal truck not being used for work, it will be cheap gassers all day long.

Evan528
03-19-2010, 07:51 PM
I went with diesel with 68k miles mainly because of resale value....I am going to put 30k miles on her for the next 3-4 years and then still have one helluva down payment when I go to trade this diesel in.

I was in the $20-25k price range and after comparing gas to diesel, resale value, and mileage the diesel seemed like a better rig. Im was soooo tired of getting 10mpg towing and about 12 unloaded that I just couldnt go gas again. This is my only truck though and once I have the option of having my personal truck not being used for work, it will be cheap gassers all day long.

What brand of truck did you get? My 03 cummins only gets 10-11 towing and 12 not towing in stop and go..... highway it were it shines at almost 20MPG. I know most of the newer powerstrokes dont do any better.

360ci
03-19-2010, 08:16 PM
Under 15K, I'd find a low mileage gas unit. If you can find a newer, lower mileage diesel, especially pre 2007 emissions I'd pick it up if it looks to be even in decent shape.

JMiller08
03-19-2010, 09:38 PM
If i had the cash right now i would buy this thing in a heartbeat. http://cleveland.craigslist.org/ctd/1637187827.html

doubleedge
03-19-2010, 11:04 PM
If i had the cash right now i would buy this thing in a heartbeat. http://cleveland.craigslist.org/ctd/1637187827.html

At that price, I would be surprised if the 6.0 diesel in that truck wasn't a lemon.

JMiller08
03-19-2010, 11:14 PM
At that price, I would be surprised if the 6.0 diesel in that truck wasn't a lemon.

Supposedly it was a theft recovery.

360ci
03-20-2010, 09:51 AM
Supposedly it was a theft recovery.

I'd stay away. The dents might have been caused by a getaway! Who knows what/if anything was put on the engine such as a tuner, and then removed by the shop afterward. Tuners not properly calibrated can do severe damage to a diesel on the best of days. In any case, check out the CarFax first, and then take a THOROUGH test drive.

DoetschOutdoor
03-20-2010, 12:32 PM
What brand of truck did you get? My 03 cummins only gets 10-11 towing and 12 not towing in stop and go..... highway it were it shines at almost 20MPG. I know most of the newer powerstrokes dont do any better.

I got an 06' cummins 3/4 ton longbed and my around town mileage has been 16 and the little I had it on the hwy it jumped up to almost 19. I went from a dam zr2 s-10 to a 3/4 ton diesel and my mileage has nearly doubled! Going to hook up to my small enclosed trailer now but not gonna fully know how it is around town until we get in the full swing of things. Right now Im only pulling a 14' enclosed trailer with 2 smaller mowers in there so Im hoping my mileage wont drop with that little weight.

Evan528
03-20-2010, 01:06 PM
Wish mine got 16..... been this way since it was new. Sure does have power though......

CornerstoneCS
03-20-2010, 03:18 PM
It seems like the diesel haters are in abundance in this thread, and there is nothing wrong with that, to each his own.
I went from a Ford 5.4 gas to a GMC 6.6 duramax turbo diesel, and even though I have yet to get into any major repairs (175,000 miles) I can honestly say I doubt that I will ever go back to a gasoline truck. I was lucky if I was getting 8 mpg towing my equipment with the Ford gasser, now I'm getting 15 mpg towing with the diesel. If you do get a diesel, get it tuned and your gas mileage will be better as well. Also, the added power with the diesel is great. This truck will pull just about anything I throw at it and could still do more.
From what you stated you will be doing with it, it does seem a little iffy to try and justify getting a diesel, but I have to say, I doubt you would be disappointed if you did buy one. Good Luck in your search.

EverestLandscape
03-22-2010, 02:31 PM
I have a diesel for the fact that i tow my 7 ton trailer with the skid steer. Other than that, a gas job would be fine to tow the maintenance trailer around. Another thing is if you do a lot of maintenance, the constant star, stop, start, stop of a diesel can shorten the injector and starter life greatly. I'm looking to buy another truck and I'm shootin for an F-350 with the V10. If you plan on putting a dump insert get the V10 as well, the Ford Triton V8 has NO balls with certain loads.

ZTR_Diesel
03-22-2010, 11:04 PM
Why are repairs anymore than a gas? A Diesel is a simpler engine.


I know this was a long time back.

It used to be true - but it's far from true anymore.

I would not reccommend a diesel to the average person anymore, and the longevity has been going out the window due to all the changes realted to '07 & '10 emossions regulations. Thanks CARB & EPA.

Panhead
03-23-2010, 01:35 AM
Gassers do the job for light towing\hauling. I have nothing against diesels, I love the Cummin's. But if I was hauling skid steer's, etc, thats when i'll get a diesel. Gasser's do last if you well maintain them.

DoetschOutdoor
03-23-2010, 11:39 AM
LOL, wonder what ya think of my 06 cummins pulling my lil 6x14 enclosed!!! I put 90k hard miles on my 02' chevy quarter ton truck, if the cummins gives me that many trouble free miles then I will be good to go until she can be retired as solely personal truck and be replaced with cheap gasser for work.

Panhead
03-23-2010, 11:47 AM
Never knew chevy made a quarter ton truck...

Moto52
03-23-2010, 01:12 PM
Around here you buy a diesel because you want one. Todays diesels don't get the fuel mileage they cost more to operate and they don't last your lucky to get 200,000kms (125,000 miles) out of one reliably usually once a diesel reaches 300,000kms (187,000 miles) it is close to done once you reach 400,000kms (249,000 miles) it is rebuild time but the truck is usually rusted out and scrap.

No hope in hell getting 400,000 miles 640,000kms out of a diesel you would have rebuilt the engine once and the truck would have been rebuilt 3 times.


Thats pretty lame if you think a diesel pickup is only good for 200k. just cause thats all you can get out of your 6.0l powerstroke doesn't mean all the other diesels are the same. cummins, duramaxs and 7.3s go way more mileage then that as long as you keep clean oil in them...

WHIPPLE5.7
03-23-2010, 01:37 PM
I use my 5.7 gas Chevy for 80% of my work. It runs great, has lots of power, gets 16 mpg, and the resale value is as low as it can get so why rack up the miles on my Cummins. My Cummins does not impress me that much and it only gets 12 mpg and since its not chipped the power is not that hot either. Fuel pump failure on the gas truck $150, fuel injector failure on a diesel $2500+. My dream truck would be a 2004-2006 3500HD SRW with an 8.1, STS turbo, E-fans, custom computer tune. No diesel would mess with that and it would be cheaper to buy and maintain. That combo could pull a backhoe on the weekdays and on saturday night when the punks are cruising town you could waste a Mustang GT with ease. Most guys with that setup get 15 mpg towing and produce 600+ HP/TQ.

unkownfl
03-23-2010, 01:58 PM
I know this was a long time back.

It used to be true - but it's far from true anymore.

I would not reccommend a diesel to the average person anymore, and the longevity has been going out the window due to all the changes realted to '07 & '10 emossions regulations. Thanks CARB & EPA.

No it still is take that engine cover off once in awhile before you pass judgement. I've been working on vehicles for a long time. 5th generation mechanic myself. Yes older diesels are very simple but some were gas engines then as well. What a EGR and catalyst system to much evolved? Think gas vehicles don't have these? Theres more components in a gas vehicles emissions than a entire diesel engine in some cases.

For the person that says starting and stopping is hard you can tell fed ex and UPS that. Also, you could always just let it run. How long does it take to do a yard 10-15 mins? Are you really worried about a starter?

Gravel rat lives in a very extreme environment hell have you ever watched any of his videos of skid steers being iced to the trailer and taking half a day to get off? Nothing in that environment would last as long as it was designed too.

DoetschOutdoor
03-23-2010, 02:44 PM
Never knew chevy made a quarter ton truck...

Haha, thats what I called the Zr2 S-10 I was driving...much better than the regular s-10's but still, only about a quarter ton truck...

ZTR_Diesel
03-23-2010, 08:18 PM
No it still is take that engine cover off once in awhile before you pass judgement. I've been working on vehicles for a long time. 5th generation mechanic myself. Yes older diesels are very simple but some were gas engines then as well. What a EGR and catalyst system to much evolved? Think gas vehicles don't have these? Theres more components in a gas vehicles emissions than a entire diesel engine in some cases.


Back off. Not a judgement type person, and if you read my signature, I have one of those simple diesels already. I understand their advantages and drawbacks with some aptitude.

What I was reffering to are the 2007 & 2010 EPA-emissions regulated engines. Also applying to Tier IV which incorporates off-highway engines. Do a search for some very long reading.

As for diesels, I've spent quite a bit of dyno time around them in pre-production development, and when you can give me the ins and outs of B10 & B20 life, and Weibull analysis then you can acuse me of judgement.

Thank you and have a nice day. :)

unkownfl
03-23-2010, 11:06 PM
Weibull analysis what are you in your jr year of college? B10 & b20 what bio diesel?

unkownfl
03-23-2010, 11:14 PM
Also, your 2007-current diesel engine theory is out of the pictures considering his budget!

ZTR_Diesel
03-24-2010, 02:16 AM
Also, your 2007-current diesel engine theory is out of the pictures considering his budget!

Good point.

Been out of college over 15 years...not a young pup anymore.

Thanks and have a good one...:usflag: