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MOB
03-18-2010, 10:45 PM
Hi, a new guy here, first post. I've had a lawn service for 25 years and have always used Scotts R8A fertilizer spreaders. They work great, but on large accounts it ends up being a lot of walking, and more work to go back to spot spray problem areas. I've been looking at ride on spreader / sprayers and there are a few to choose from. I was impressed with the Northern Turf products SS220's features, but can't seem to find any reviews of this product. I looked at some threads on here discussing them, but most are a year old and inconclusive. I have some Turfco products, a renothin and an aerator, and have looked at the T3000, but it looks cumbersome and doesn't have as wide a swath width or capacity as the SS220.
I need a ride on to do more large accounts more efficiently and need some information to make the right decision before plunking down the cash! Thanks
Mark

indyturf
03-18-2010, 11:40 PM
I think any of the 3 better known ride-on's (PG,Z,T) would be a much better choice than than than the northern turf spreader. I have only seen them in the magazine and wasn't impressed.

turfcobob
03-19-2010, 10:10 AM
Hi, a new guy here, first post. I've had a lawn service for 25 years and have always used Scotts R8A fertilizer spreaders. They work great, but on large accounts it ends up being a lot of walking, and more work to go back to spot spray problem areas. I've been looking at ride on spreader / sprayers and there are a few to choose from. I was impressed with the Northern Turf products SS220's features, but can't seem to find any reviews of this product. I looked at some threads on here discussing them, but most are a year old and inconclusive. I have some Turfco products, a renothin and an aerator, and have looked at the T3000, but it looks cumbersome and doesn't have as wide a swath width or capacity as the SS220.
I need a ride on to do more large accounts more efficiently and need some information to make the right decision before plunking down the cash! Thanks
Mark

Where in S Dakota? Zimco in Souix City, Has a demo T3000 or I can run up and visit with you and let you try out my unit. I am in Lincoln, NE, But Zimco 712-252-1604
would certainly be closer. The T 3000 spreads 18 foot wide for a 9 foot effective swath and does 4000 sq ft a minute. You need more than that? You can send me a PM and I can get you numbers to call.

jasontimm
03-19-2010, 12:14 PM
I was in the same boat as you, after a lot of research, and a lot of help from the boys here on lawnsite i saw the following options:
-if you want to buy new, $7400.00 to $9000.00 dollars range your best choices are the z-spray by LT Rich (zspray.com) or the T-3000 (turfco.com) both are excellent machines, and its up to you which one fits your needs.
-If your on a tighter budget, or dont want to spend the above dollars now, you can find used PG's from $1500.00 to $4500.00, there are a few used on this site, or go to permagreen.com and they have a large used second to chosose from.

-good luck.

ZSpray Info
03-19-2010, 12:54 PM
Please take a look at our machines. Our Z-Max has a spray width of 10 feet and has a infinitely variable dry spread width from 3-25'. It has 50 gallons total liquid capacity (150k sq ft), 220# fert hopper. It includes a GPS speedometer, 50 foot hose reel. It is a Zero Turn unit with all stainless steel chassis, single belt drive. It is only $600 more than our competitor.

If you want a unit for less money than our competitor, Our Intermediate has the same granular capacity, but a 18 gallon tank (54k sq Ft)

ZSpray Info
03-19-2010, 04:38 PM
here is our comparison:

grassman177
03-19-2010, 06:57 PM
perfect way to chime it zspray and nice chart! I do realize everyone has an idea of what will fill their needs best, but for us it was by far the zsprays, we have three of them. we find the intermediate the most versitile but we have a max, int and jr for every situation.

they are very versitile and can be custom made just for you, meaning they can add tanks to them, even with separate pumps to fit your needs, call them and they can tell you more, ask for andy!

a plus bob
03-19-2010, 07:26 PM
That is my favorite Z-SPRAY add I think we all know who A and B are :p

SeedPro
03-19-2010, 08:09 PM
Wheelies. You forgot to add does wheelies to your comparison chart.

:cool2:

americanlawn
03-19-2010, 08:28 PM
MOB, I grew up not far from you on a NW Iowa farm, so common sense & trust goes a long way with me. IMO I would avoid the SS220 if you're looking for a ride-on that will last. IMO Z-Sprays & the T3000 are way ahead of the rest, but only one of the two is most practical (at least in our operation).

Z-Spray chart is misleading in our opinion. Here's a list of their so called advantages:
"zero turn" = two hands to steer :confused:
all stainless steel - who cares if it doesn't rust? :rolleyes:
220 lb hopper - We've run Spyker 220's for many years. Fine product, but matching that with only 18 gal = impractical. :cool2:
Hose reel: Why would anybody need a long hose if they have a ride-on? :hammerhead:
GPS speedometer: who needs one? anybody? :laugh:
3-section boom = look out for obstacles/damage/missed areas :hammerhead:
hydraulic drive hopper....been using Spyker hopper for many years. No advantage there either. :cool2:
Spread width up to 25 feet. Fine, but where's the spay pattern :confused:
18 gallon spray tank......ok, z-sprays beat the T3000 there by two gallons :laugh:
Then the "chart" goes on -- even comparing tire sizes.....what's that all about? If there's a benefit, please show me :laugh::laugh:
electric start: nice, but we never need it
5 gallon gas tank: We have never run out of gas unless we treat over twenty acres per day. Then we just carry a 2 1/2 gal gas tank to refuel once more.

Nuther thing to consider regarding "adding tanks & extra pumps", operating a unit like this will certainly keep your hands full.....especially when both hands are needed to steer it. Add it up, 2 hands to steer, then ask yourself if you need to spread fert or spray herbicides at the same time.

T3000 = "cumbersome". I think not, cuz it's the only ride-on we could spray & spread while throwing "frisbies" at the same time. The "hands free" feature is part of what sold us. :usflag:

The above are our employees' opinions. They are mine as well. We currently run three T3000's and no other ride-ons. Safety, ease of transportation, durability of product, route efficiency, safe maneuverability on slopes were not mentioned in this post, but they probably should have been, because these factors were important to us when making a buying decision.

Anybody want to see new pics of our twin receiver carrier racks (aluminum + steel)? :cool2:

sprayboy
03-19-2010, 09:08 PM
MOB, I grew up not far from you on a NW Iowa farm, so common sense & trust goes a long way with me. IMO I would avoid the SS220 if you're looking for a ride-on that will last. IMO Z-Sprays & the T3000 are way ahead of the rest, but only one of the two is most practical (at least in our operation).

Z-Spray chart is misleading in our opinion. Here's a list of their so called advantages:
Your post is misleading..in my opinion
"zero turn" = two hands to steer :confused:
What's so confusing? Steer mine one handed, turns on a dime.all stainless steel - who cares if it doesn't rust? :rolleyes:
People who invest in a quality machine, thats who.
220 lb hopper - We've run Spyker 220's for many years. Fine product, but matching that with only 18 gal = impractical. :cool2:
You don't have to spray every lawn whole spreading.
Hose reel: Why would anybody need a long hose if they have a ride-on? :hammerhead:
Small areas you cannot get any ride-on in.
GPS speedometer: who needs one? anybody? :laugh:
people who might want to go a different speed while doing large wide open areas vs small lawns. Maybe some people like to keep an eye on their speed for calibration purposes.
3-section boom = look out for obstacles/damage/missed areas :hammerhead:
Obstacles are no problem, if you damage something you need to learn how to drive, not sure how you can miss an area.
hydraulic drive hopper....been using Spyker hopper for many years. No advantage there either. :cool2:
Is yours electric? They can burn up.
Spread width up to 25 feet. Fine, but where's the spay pattern :confused:
You don't have to spray every app, some are just fert only. Thought you would know that after your years in the industry.
18 gallon spray tank......ok, z-sprays beat the T3000 there by two gallons :laugh:
But who's counting.
Then the "chart" goes on -- even comparing tire sizes.....what's that all about? If there's a benefit, please show me :laugh::laugh:
Options, does the T have that?
electric start: nice, but we never need it
I love it.
5 gallon gas tank: We have never run out of gas unless we treat over twenty acres per day. Then we just carry a 2 1/2 gal gas tank to refuel once more.
Don't have to fill everyday.

Nuther thing to consider regarding "adding tanks & extra pumps", operating a unit like this will certainly keep your hands full.....especially when both hands are needed to steer it. Add it up, 2 hands to steer, then ask yourself if you need to spread fert or spray herbicides at the same time.
Both hands are not needed to steer. Yes, sometimes you need to spread and spray at the same time. Extra tanks are nice option for specialty chemicals.

T3000 = "cumbersome". I think not, cuz it's the only ride-on we could spray & spread while throwing "frisbies" at the same time. The "hands free" feature is part of what sold us. :usflag:
I can play frisbee to, just doesn't look real professional.

The above are our employees' opinions. They are mine as well. We currently run three T3000's and no other ride-ons. Safety, ease of transportation, durability of product, route efficiency, safe maneuverability on slopes were not mentioned in this post, but they probably should have been, because these factors were important to us when making a buying decision.
These were all factors in my decision also, That is why I own a Z.

Anybody want to see new pics of our twin receiver carrier racks (aluminum + steel)? :cool2:

NO. Not at all.

a plus bob
03-19-2010, 09:12 PM
Must be Beer thirty again.Better watch out you might lose another T operator to D.U.I The best reason to run a T 3000 you can hold your beer while doing applications.

a plus bob
03-19-2010, 09:16 PM
Let me guess when I check back in the morning this thread will be gone.

sprayboy
03-19-2010, 09:18 PM
Must be Beer thirty again.Better watch out you might lose another T operator to D.U.I The best reason to run a T 3000 you can hold your beer while doing applications.

That's some funny sh!t right there.

djagusch
03-19-2010, 09:18 PM
"zero turn" = two hands to steer "

If you have a mowing background most operators can have one hand on both levers and still make turns and such.

Why doesn't Turfco have specs on their website?

a plus bob
03-19-2010, 09:21 PM
"zero turn" = two hands to steer "

If you have a mowing background most operators can have one hand on both levers and still make turns and such.

Why doesn't Turfco have specs on their website?

Its still top secret!! have you seen any literature on it all very vague.

djagusch
03-19-2010, 09:47 PM
Its still top secret!! have you seen any literature on it all very vague.

Oh I get the mailers all the time. Just having it handy on the website might be nice since it's such a hot product. Having it up would reduce the overloading of the phone lines. They are ringing all the time I hear.

Tire size and weight is why I was looking for specs as it would help calculate the psi on the tire contact patch.

Service 1st Lawn Care
03-19-2010, 09:51 PM
:drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup:: drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::d rinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::dr inkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::dri nkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drin kup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup:

HEY THROW ME THE FRISBEE

SeedPro
03-19-2010, 09:54 PM
"zero turn" = two hands to steer "

If you have a mowing background most operators can have one hand on both levers and still make turns and such.

Why doesn't Turfco have specs on their website?

Exactly. I have small hands and drive my ZMax one handed all the time making turns.

HARRIS Property Management
03-19-2010, 09:59 PM
I have a PG and I like it. I bought it used as a starter until my Fert accounts grew but I believe I am going with a ZSpray when this one wears out.

MOB
03-19-2010, 10:40 PM
Thanks guys, now I'm really confused! Which one's come standard with a beer holder?

grassman177
03-20-2010, 12:11 AM
none, as you cant apply pesticides and eat or drink or smoke safely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! not untill you wash your hands,hahaha

grassman177
03-20-2010, 12:17 AM
dont be confused, all the things american lawn says are not true, the options are great to have, one cant have too many. we spread very wide and fast on large areas, the best reason for having the hydro drive and gps. we used to have electric motors for hoppers and they corroded and failed every two years or less. hydro is a dream come true for us. speed calibration is key to having a gps, we all operate the machine at different settings here, and u can. i like to crank it and go faster, some guys like slower, all of which require different settings. the T300 is factory set if i undertand correctly, which can be great, but it is limited and i dont like limitations !!!!!

that hose real is a must, i have plenty of hillsides no ride on can do, but i can just stop and get the hose real and get it done without having to go get a backpack, or use a tank truck just for that area. i find it a must and that is why it is standard on every machine.

i can go on and on, but you will find out in your own takes from our opinions and your own research so good luck

Victor
03-20-2010, 01:37 AM
I'll tell you what I like MOB. You've got people here from both sides of the fence, both sides LOVE the machine the chose to get. I'd think you'd be happy with either machine. I don't see how you could lose no matter which machine you decide will serve you best. :)
Posted via Mobile Device

Young Bros
03-20-2010, 12:41 PM
Our 2nd year (2009) we got a used PG. We like not having a trailer. As soon as we can afford a T3000 we will get one. Until then its pushing a spyker, pulling hose, and riding the PG only.

ZSpray Info
03-20-2010, 12:52 PM
Larry, we just wanted to address some of your points:

[QUOTE=americanlawn;3476778]
Z-Spray chart is misleading in our opinion. Here's a list of their so called advantages:
"zero turn" = two hands to steer :confused: Most operators can run with one hand very easily

all stainless steel - who cares if it doesn't rust? :rolleyes: We feel non stainless items will rust. If you are right, why does Turfco use stainless in some areas?

220 lb hopper - We've run Spyker 220's for many years. Fine product, but matching that with only 18 gal = impractical. :cool2: Most companies do not spray liquid in all applications. Also we can spray 1/4 gallon per 1000, which 18 gallons would do 72,000 sq ft, Also spreading at 3lbs per thousand, a 50 lb bag would do 16k sq feet, which with a 220 lb hopper would do 73 sq feet.

Hose reel: Why would anybody need a long hose if they have a ride-on? :hammerhead: There are possible several areas that may require a reel. Why does Turfco supply a Coil Hose???

GPS speedometer: who needs one? anybody? :laugh: Every spray chart we have looked at, speed is a required variable to know, along with pressure and tip size.

3-section boom = look out for obstacles/damage/missed areas :hammerhead: Thats why we make our machines zero turn. The boom does spray beyond it physical length. Also we firmly believe that you cannot achieve as precise an application with a boomless nozzle

hydraulic drive hopper....been using Spyker hopper for many years. No advantage there either. :cool2: The hydraulic drive hopper gives us an infinite variable spread width. I haven't talked to one customer who would choose a belt driven or electric hopper over a hydraulic one.

Spread width up to 25 feet. Fine, but where's the spay pattern :confused: We have a infinitely varaible spread width, you are not locked into only 2 spread width chocies. Each yard is different. Also you may not need to spray during each application. Our machines allows you to spread further and decrease application time

18 gallon spray tank......ok, z-sprays beat the T3000 there by two gallons :laugh: 2 gallons is 6 or 8k sq feet each fill. 10 x 8k is an extra 80k per day

Then the "chart" goes on -- even comparing tire sizes.....what's that all about? If there's a benefit, please show me :laugh::laugh: Larger tires improve ride quality, ability to go up and over curves, lessen possibility of catching holes in lawns. Also provide more surface area to reduce ruts on wet lawns.

electric start: nice, but we never need it. Tell us what you think once you are holding a rope with a handle in your hand.

5 gallon gas tank: We have never run out of gas unless we treat over twenty acres per day. Then we just carry a 2 1/2 gal gas tank to refuel once more. Why not just fill once per morning and not worry about it the rest of the day. Most of our customers do more than 20 acres a day.

Nuther thing to consider regarding "adding tanks & extra pumps", operating a unit like this will certainly keep your hands full.....especially when both hands are needed to steer it. Add it up, 2 hands to steer, then ask yourself if you need to spread fert or spray herbicides at the same time. Thanks for pointing out that our machines have a much greater capability than yours. Our customers enjoy the extra features we can offer to increase there revenues. Also we see Turfco has taken added extra tanks and pumps. Imitation is the best flattery

T3000 = "cumbersome". I think not, cuz it's the only ride-on we could spray & spread while throwing "frisbies" at the same time. The "hands free" feature is part of what sold us. :usflag: Maybe if you put away your frisbees, you could concentrate and be able to operate all the features we can offer.:)

QUOTE]

Also we would like to point out again, that 3 out of 4 of our units are less expensive than Turfco

jasontimm
03-20-2010, 01:27 PM
:waving:You ahbe to remeber that American lawn is on theh Turfco payroll

grassman177
03-20-2010, 01:29 PM
perfect answers, and more polite than us regualr folks, and all the same points that have been made over and over again. it never ceases to amaze me he points out the same things over and over again and to no avail. he somehow cant see that he is one of the only guys on earth that cant use more than one function on a machine at a time. oh, and dont forget the fact that you can spread and drive with your two hands, and use your foot to operate the boom and spray. that is super cool and versitile.

a plus bob
03-20-2010, 03:21 PM
If you cant figure out how to turn valves and pull a trailer maybe you need handicaped license plates.My 17 yr old daughter can do both with no problems.

Young Bros
03-20-2010, 03:29 PM
If you cant figure out how to turn valves and pull a trailer maybe you need handicaped license plates.My 17 yr old daughter can do both with no problems.

I can figure out how to pull a trailer but dont want to waist the time. For large properties a trailer might be ok, but for residential I see the mowing crews have a tougher time than we do getting in and out of the property. Why pull a trailer when you dont have to? Trailer needs to be registered and maintained. I would like to see you and your daughter figure out how to get your truck and trailer to fit where our Isuzu and GMC with racks can fit and turn.

a plus bob
03-20-2010, 03:59 PM
I can figure out how to pull a trailer but dont want to waist the time. For large properties a trailer might be ok, but for residential I see the mowing crews have a tougher time than we do getting in and out of the property. Why pull a trailer when you dont have to? Trailer needs to be registered and maintained. I would like to see you and your daughter figure out how to get your truck and trailer to fit where our Isuzu and GMC with racks can fit and turn.

You can put a Z on a rack also Thats how I carry mine.With a Z you can load up and drive a block away to your stops if need be and not make a million trips to reload.

indyturf
03-20-2010, 04:40 PM
You can put a Z on a rack also That's how I carry mine.With a Z you can load up and drive a block away to your stops if need be and not make a million trips to reload.

That's one of the best benefits of a ride-on!! one stop and do 4 or 5 lawns on both sides of the street!

Service 1st Lawn Care
03-20-2010, 05:40 PM
I can figure out how to pull a trailer but dont want to waist the time. For large properties a trailer might be ok, but for residential I see the mowing crews have a tougher time than we do getting in and out of the property. Why pull a trailer when you dont have to? Trailer needs to be registered and maintained. I would like to see you and your daughter figure out how to get your truck and trailer to fit where our Isuzu and GMC with racks can fit and turn.

I love my trailer I have no problem in residential areas. it's great space for advertising a rolling billboard. If it should happen to rain just pull inside and wait out the rain. So to us a trailer is not a waste of time you pull up put your gate down. I pull up and put my gate down, seems like the same process.

Young Bros
03-20-2010, 07:12 PM
I love my trailer I have no problem in residential areas. it's great space for advertising a rolling billboard. If it should happen to rain just pull inside and wait out the rain. So to us a trailer is not a waste of time you pull up put your gate down. I pull up and put my gate down, seems like the same process.

Waste of time is learning a trailer and yes if I was an expert like you at a trailer it would still not let me park everywhere I can now. Our tankers are a rolling billboard. I can't put it away in the field to keep dry, but rain getting my ride on wet has not been a problem for us. To each his own. Again maintence on a carrier is less than maintence on a trailer.

Young Bros
03-20-2010, 07:14 PM
You can put a Z on a rack also Thats how I carry mine.With a Z you can load up and drive a block away to your stops if need be and not make a million trips to reload.

Which Z do you have? It would be nice not to make as many trips as a PG. Does your Z that fits on a rack do a lot more in one fill up than the T?

grassman177
03-20-2010, 08:12 PM
i can answer that , he has the intermediate with one extra tank, and it can do more ground per fill than any other unit can. we also have an intermediate but with tow aux tanks, so we have a total of 18 gal on front, and two separate 7 gal each tanks on the back instead of the trays. so there is three separate tanks to operate from. toal of 32 gal to use, and we use 1/2 gal tips for a total of 64K sqft of spray, but you can double that with 1/4 gal tips and get up to 128 Ksqft out of one machine before filling!!!!

in summer we can run a miriad of dif products in there, like for ex the main 18gal tank will have surge weed control, one of the 7 gal tanks would have Q4 or drive etc, and the other insecticide like talstar for insect treatments as not every lawn gets the same service. it is flat out the best thing we have used to be efficient in these situations.

a plus bob
03-20-2010, 09:14 PM
Which Z do you have? It would be nice not to make as many trips as a PG. Does your Z that fits on a rack do a lot more in one fill up than the T?

I can do 78,000 out of my intermediate with an aux tank mine is 8 gal.

rcreech
03-20-2010, 09:36 PM
I run a max and can spray 5.2 acres/fill. I love it!

Got another 7 gallon tank that I use for other products...or I would have anther 28K to spray!

There is nothing like the Z!!!!!

turfcobob
03-23-2010, 11:00 PM
:waving:You ahbe to remeber that American lawn is on theh Turfco payroll

Totally incorrect. American Lawn is a customer and friend to Turfco. Personal jabs are uncalled for in this forum.

DA Quality Lawn & YS
03-23-2010, 11:44 PM
To be honest guys, I don't own a T or Z (just an old clunker PG), but...

That was a little bit of a classless post by the ZSpray rep on pg 3. If you are confident in your product, you don't need to go after the competition via verbal sparring in a copied-LS member's post.

Victor
03-23-2010, 11:59 PM
To be honest guys, I don't own a T or Z (just an old clunker PG), but...

That was a little bit of a classless post by the ZSpray rep on pg 3. If you are confident in your product, you don't need to go after the competition via verbal sparring in a copied-LS member's post.

I thought the same thing when I read that post. Not a good move.

Larry... :laugh: I know you LOVE T's Buddy, but you have to expect people to react to any of your posts that have even a hint of Z Spray slander to them. A lot of these guys are every bit as taken with Z's as you are with T's man and rightfully so.

grassman177
03-24-2010, 05:04 AM
That was a little bit of a classless post by the ZSpray rep on pg 3. If you are confident in your product, you don't need to go after the competition via verbal sparring in a copied-LS member's post.

i saw nothing wrong or even close to mean or out of line with their post, all was handled in a very fair posting*trucewhiteflag*

a plus bob
03-24-2010, 07:33 AM
I thought the same thing when I read that post. Not a good move.

Larry... :laugh: I know you LOVE T's Buddy, but you have to expect people to react to any of your posts that have even a hint of Z Spray slander to them. A lot of these guys are every bit as taken with Z's as you are with T's man and rightfully so.

Dont even think about a comment on my Chevy trucks either right Grassman :nono::laugh:

a plus bob
03-24-2010, 07:37 AM
i saw nothing wrong or even close to mean or out of line with their post, all was handled in a very fair posting*trucewhiteflag*

At least they didnt Rant and go up in flames like we have seen time and time again :blob2:

Victor
03-24-2010, 07:45 AM
i saw nothing wrong or even close to mean or out of line with their post, all was handled in a very fair posting*trucewhiteflag*

I have no doubt you didn't see anything wrong with Z Spray's retort, but you can't read what's on the label when you're inside the bottle. You own a Z Spray. We don't. That gives us as non biased readers of what was said a different perspective than you Buddy.
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ZSpray Info
03-24-2010, 08:50 AM
We apologize if we offended anyone. We were just trying to answer points that diminished the features of our machines. I can see one comment we made could have been taken wrong, but was intended to be tongue in cheek.

jasontimm
03-24-2010, 09:35 AM
Totally incorrect. American Lawn is a customer and friend to Turfco. Personal jabs are uncalled for in this forum.

How the hell you consider that a personal jab BOB...you a little sensitive are we??? i would suggest you not read posts about Z's and T's if you are going to cry like a little school girl everytime someone gives larry a hard time!!!!!

GravelyGuy
03-24-2010, 09:43 AM
We apologize if we offended anyone. We were just trying to answer points that diminished the features of our machines. I can see one comment we made could have been taken wrong, but was intended to be tongue in cheek.

Stop playing on lawnsite and go get my JR Z built:)

All hands on deck!

rcreech
03-24-2010, 10:11 AM
Larry, we just wanted to address some of your points:

[QUOTE=americanlawn;3476778]
Z-Spray chart is misleading in our opinion. Here's a list of their so called advantages:
"zero turn" = two hands to steer :confused: Most operators can run with one hand very easily

all stainless steel - who cares if it doesn't rust? :rolleyes: We feel non stainless items will rust. If you are right, why does Turfco use stainless in some areas?

220 lb hopper - We've run Spyker 220's for many years. Fine product, but matching that with only 18 gal = impractical. :cool2: Most companies do not spray liquid in all applications. Also we can spray 1/4 gallon per 1000, which 18 gallons would do 72,000 sq ft, Also spreading at 3lbs per thousand, a 50 lb bag would do 16k sq feet, which with a 220 lb hopper would do 73 sq feet.

Hose reel: Why would anybody need a long hose if they have a ride-on? :hammerhead: There are possible several areas that may require a reel. Why does Turfco supply a Coil Hose???

GPS speedometer: who needs one? anybody? :laugh: Every spray chart we have looked at, speed is a required variable to know, along with pressure and tip size.

3-section boom = look out for obstacles/damage/missed areas :hammerhead: Thats why we make our machines zero turn. The boom does spray beyond it physical length. Also we firmly believe that you cannot achieve as precise an application with a boomless nozzle

hydraulic drive hopper....been using Spyker hopper for many years. No advantage there either. :cool2: The hydraulic drive hopper gives us an infinite variable spread width. I haven't talked to one customer who would choose a belt driven or electric hopper over a hydraulic one.

Spread width up to 25 feet. Fine, but where's the spay pattern :confused: We have a infinitely varaible spread width, you are not locked into only 2 spread width chocies. Each yard is different. Also you may not need to spray during each application. Our machines allows you to spread further and decrease application time

18 gallon spray tank......ok, z-sprays beat the T3000 there by two gallons :laugh: 2 gallons is 6 or 8k sq feet each fill. 10 x 8k is an extra 80k per day

Then the "chart" goes on -- even comparing tire sizes.....what's that all about? If there's a benefit, please show me :laugh::laugh: Larger tires improve ride quality, ability to go up and over curves, lessen possibility of catching holes in lawns. Also provide more surface area to reduce ruts on wet lawns.

electric start: nice, but we never need it. Tell us what you think once you are holding a rope with a handle in your hand.

5 gallon gas tank: We have never run out of gas unless we treat over twenty acres per day. Then we just carry a 2 1/2 gal gas tank to refuel once more. Why not just fill once per morning and not worry about it the rest of the day. Most of our customers do more than 20 acres a day.

Nuther thing to consider regarding "adding tanks & extra pumps", operating a unit like this will certainly keep your hands full.....especially when both hands are needed to steer it. Add it up, 2 hands to steer, then ask yourself if you need to spread fert or spray herbicides at the same time. Thanks for pointing out that our machines have a much greater capability than yours. Our customers enjoy the extra features we can offer to increase there revenues. Also we see Turfco has taken added extra tanks and pumps. Imitation is the best flattery

T3000 = "cumbersome". I think not, cuz it's the only ride-on we could spray & spread while throwing "frisbies" at the same time. The "hands free" feature is part of what sold us. :usflag: Maybe if you put away your frisbees, you could concentrate and be able to operate all the features we can offer.:)

QUOTE]

Also we would like to point out again, that 3 out of 4 of our units are less expensive than Turfco

I just seen this post for the first time...and even though I do own a Z and am totally biased, I see nothing wrong with LT Rich's commments. They answered the questions Larry asked.

Sometimes the truth just HURTS! :)

All the things that Larry pointed out that he doesn't care about are the reasons that I and many, many others on here have and are purchasing Z Sprays.

We want options and capacities!

If you are running down a straight road and don't want options then the Z may not be for you...but if you are willing to have options and capacity there is no one that can't tell me it won't make you more money!

Capacity and options = Effeciency

jasontimm
03-24-2010, 10:39 AM
We apologize if we offended anyone. We were just trying to answer points that diminished the features of our machines. I can see one comment we made could have been taken wrong, but was intended to be tongue in cheek.

You dont need to apologize, there is no reason why you cant respond to rips on the product you sell, i pretty sure anyone here on lawnsite would do the same if thier product was ripped on. Pretty sad when you have to worry about hurting someone's feelings, or offending someone on here, i thougth we were all adults, or at lease man enough to take opinions or facts without having to go cry to mom or your shrink. If you need a klenex, just ask....i can find you one!

americanlawn
03-24-2010, 08:12 PM
No need to apologize to us buddy. If we weren't running T's, we'd be running Z's in a HEARTBEAT. :usflag: Our deal is we run a "fleet", so we need something fairly simple to operate. (Heck I even bid on an Intermediate on ebay last year) Z's are awesome units IMO, and lots of friends run them.

Met a friend today who works for Scotts Lawn Service. The franchise owner is switching away from Magnums and going with Ground Logic units w/carrier racks. Said they're much better than PG units. Not sure why they don't run Z's or T's, but keep in mind that they run a "fleet" operation like us.

BTW it rained here all day, but we worked thru it. Didn't see any Z's in action.......probably parked in their respective warehouses. :laugh: Just kidding.

Anyway ZSpray Info -- Your people and your Z-Spray ride ons are TOP NOTCH IMO. I merely posted questions that my ride-on applicators had. Opinions are like you know what.....everybody has one. :laugh: Larry :waving:

p.s. TURFCO has one HOT sales lady, so this entered in to our buying decision. :laugh:

We apologize if we offended anyone. We were just trying to answer points that diminished the features of our machines. I can see one comment we made could have been taken wrong, but was intended to be tongue in cheek.

Victor
03-24-2010, 08:33 PM
Well said Larry. That shows a lot of class on your part to give credit to Z Sprays being awsome machines, just like you're always saying that T's are.

Looking at all the callow bickering that has endured here on Lawnsite for WAY too long, can we all FINALLY agree to not take pot shots at each other's favorite brand of Spreader/Sprayer? When you do that, you only make yourself look like an ass.

Don't think for a second that Larry is the only one on here who walks too close to the edge (and sometimes crosses it) when he's talking up T's. There are Z Spray fans here too that do the exact same thing. Don't waste your time trying to say there aren't. It's plain to see that the aforementioned offenders are REALLY passionate about their respective machines, but COME ON! Enough is enough! Let's call a truce to this crap.

Sure, there will be people who share negative opinions about T's and Z's, but this IS a message board. Message Boards are supposed to be places where people share opinionsj even if their opinions don't jive with yours.

Let's just try harder to get along.
Posted via Mobile Device

a plus bob
03-24-2010, 09:01 PM
Stop playing on lawnsite and go get my JR Z built:)

All hands on deck!

Maybe you will get some pics of your machine being built :clapping:.I can pick it up and deliver it for you if you let me keep it a day or two:rolleyes:

GravelyGuy
03-24-2010, 09:08 PM
Maybe you will get some pics of your machine being built :clapping:.I can pick it up and deliver it for you if you let me keep it a day or two:rolleyes:

You are cordially invited to go with me when I pick it up.:dancing:

turfcobob
03-24-2010, 10:08 PM
How the hell you consider that a personal jab BOB...you a little sensitive are we??? i would suggest you not read posts about Z's and T's if you are going to cry like a little school girl everytime someone gives larry a hard time!!!!!

No one is crying like a little girl. AND I am not sensitive. I have lived too long and seen too much to be too sensitive. I want to keep the record straight and again this is a forum for helping and passing on information to help others be better at what we all do. Personal jabs have no place in this forum. They {personal attacks and jabs} take away from the overall value of the forum. Those with much to offer the industry will stay away from a forum where personal attacks happen. I for one am very tired of it and I have even backed off from sharing information for that very reason.

grassman177
03-24-2010, 11:25 PM
No one is crying like a little girl. AND I am not sensitive. I have lived too long and seen too much to be too sensitive. I want to keep the record straight and again this is a forum for helping and passing on information to help others be better at what we all do. Personal jabs have no place in this forum. They {personal attacks and jabs} take away from the overall value of the forum. Those with much to offer the industry will stay away from a forum where personal attacks happen. I for one am very tired of it and I have even backed off from sharing information for that very reason.

yup, as have many others over the years. good post

jasontimm
03-25-2010, 12:14 AM
No one is crying like a little girl. AND I am not sensitive. I have lived too long and seen too much to be too sensitive. I want to keep the record straight and again this is a forum for helping and passing on information to help others be better at what we all do. Personal jabs have no place in this forum. They {personal attacks and jabs} take away from the overall value of the forum. Those with much to offer the industry will stay away from a forum where personal attacks happen. I for one am very tired of it and I have even backed off from sharing information for that very reason.

You still didnt answer my question. how is implying that American Lawn is on Turfco's payroll a "personal attack" , because if they aren't on the payroll, they probably should be because they have gave us more info on the T3000 than we have gotten from your web site!!! Keep in mind i dont own either a T or a Z, so that would make me nuteral. By the way, you never see z-sprayinfo argue with potential future customers, do you? But then again, the guys at Z-spray are pretty classy! Moving on.....its aparent that most if not all of the members love debating spreader/sprayers, just look at the numerous past posts, anytime one or the other is bought up it turns into a debate...we all like having fun with one another, and in the end we agree to disagree until the next thread starts, i find it hard to believe that very many if:) anyone at all would consider the thoughts and comments made towards a product or person to be a "personal attack or jab" after all there has to be some posts that you can have fun with right??

sprayboy
03-25-2010, 07:53 AM
To be honest guys, I don't own a T or Z (just an old clunker PG), but...

That was a little bit of a classless post by the ZSpray rep on pg 3. If you are confident in your product, you don't need to go after the competition via verbal sparring in a copied-LS member's post.


I don't understand you saying classless.

Larry post these claims that are false. He is the one starting all this crap that isn't true.

All zspray did was defend their product. Why didn't you say anything about my response? Basically the same answers.

It's a broken record with Larry's posts about the Z. We read the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Is it always Larry or one of his "guys".

Maybe the moderators need to change the posting rules so everyone has to use their own username, not a few guys posting with the same name.

Young Bros
03-25-2010, 09:28 AM
I don't understand you saying classless.

Larry post these claims that are false. He is the one starting all this crap that isn't true.

All zspray did was defend their product. Why didn't you say anything about my response? Basically the same answers.

It's a broken record with Larry's posts about the Z. We read the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Is it always Larry or one of his "guys".

Maybe the moderators need to change the posting rules so everyone has to use their own username, not a few guys posting with the same name.

You say Larry is a broken record, well you must be a broken record as well. I hear the same things out of you and one or the Z "guys" over and over again. Z owners on this site probably double T owners. As soon as Larry says something about a ride on you get 10 posts of broken records.
:dizzy:

sprayboy
03-25-2010, 10:18 AM
You say Larry is a broken record, well you must be a broken record as well. I hear the same things out of you and one or the Z "guys" over and over again. Z owners on this site probably double T owners. As soon as Larry says something about a ride on you get 10 posts of broken records.
:dizzy:

You don't here it from me very often. I don't start the stupid crap, just tired of reading it over and over.

turfcobob
03-25-2010, 10:36 PM
You don't here it from me very often. I don't start the stupid crap, just tired of reading it over and over.


Amen, Terry, Well said

Bob

Victor
03-25-2010, 10:56 PM
You still didnt answer my question. how is implying that American Lawn is on Turfco's payroll a "personal attack" , because if they aren't on the payroll, they probably should be because they have gave us more info on the T3000 than we have gotten from your web site!!! Keep in mind i dont own either a T or a Z, so that would make me nuteral. By the way, you never see z-sprayinfo argue with potential future customers, do you? But then again, the guys at Z-spray are pretty classy! Moving on.....its aparent that most if not all of the members love debating spreader/sprayers, just look at the numerous past posts, anytime one or the other is bought up it turns into a debate...we all like having fun with one another, and in the end we agree to disagree until the next thread starts, i find it hard to believe that very many if:) anyone at all would consider the thoughts and comments made towards a product or person to be a "personal attack or jab" after all there has to be some posts that you can have fun with right??

You have a PM Jason.

DA Quality Lawn & YS
03-26-2010, 12:49 AM
Trust me I don't work for Larry nor am I Larry:)
I do biz too far north for him:)

americanlawn
03-26-2010, 09:19 PM
Terry -- The "broken record" always comes from the Z-Nazis downgrading TURFCO's new ride-on. (Not vice versa). "Claims" made by me (or others) regarding T3000's have been truthful (nomatter what you my think). :hammerhead: You say these "claims" are "false". You are so wrong my friend, and none of these "non believers" even know how we set up our units. :hammerhead:

This "crap" started when TURFCO introduced the T3000. My best guess is cuz Z-Nazis saw this as a 'threat' to their "world domination". :laugh:

If you noticed, I have tried not to "brag" about the T3000 for many months (even though we bought the first production unit). Only pointing out advantages/disadvantages/upgrades/helpful info, etc. Heck -- I have even sent out upgrade parts that we like at no charge to friends just to help 'em out, so I ain't in it for the money. Just trying to help friends that work as hard as we do.

Sittin' here with a buddy of mine I've known since '85. Has his own lawn company. Guess what.........they got rid of all but one Z (which they only use occasionally..huge properties only). Know what they have now?___________
FOUR T3000's! That's one more than we have.

Fact of the matter is, we have yet to see a "Z" in our market this year. Only PG's & T's.

I truly did not want to sink below your level, but you called me out, and I ain't takin' it anymore. Any one needing details, feel free to PM me. Proof's in the pudding, and never call me a liar again. Larry :hammerhead::hammerhead:

p.s. No T3000 owner has ever called a Z-Spray (or any other) representative foul names. Truth hurts -- don't it!!



I don't understand you saying classless.

Larry post these claims that are false. He is the one starting all this crap that isn't true.

All zspray did was defend their product. Why didn't you say anything about my response? Basically the same answers.

It's a broken record with Larry's posts about the Z. We read the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Is it always Larry or one of his "guys".

Maybe the moderators need to change the posting rules so everyone has to use their own username, not a few guys posting with the same name.

grassman177
03-26-2010, 11:11 PM
Terry -- The "broken record" always comes from the Z-Nazis downgrading TURFCO's new ride-on. (Not vice versa). "Claims" made by me (or others) regarding T3000's have been truthful (nomatter what you my think). :hammerhead: You say these "claims" are "false". You are so wrong my friend, and none of these "non believers" even know how we set up our units. :hammerhead:

This "crap" started when TURFCO introduced the T3000. My best guess is cuz Z-Nazis saw this as a 'threat' to their "world domination". :laugh:

If you noticed, I have tried not to "brag" about the T3000 for many months (even though we bought the first production unit). Only pointing out advantages/disadvantages/upgrades/helpful info, etc. Heck -- I have even sent out upgrade parts that we like at no charge to friends just to help 'em out, so I ain't in it for the money. Just trying to help friends that work as hard as we do.

Sittin' here with a buddy of mine I've known since '85. Has his own lawn company. Guess what.........they got rid of all but one Z (which they only use occasionally..huge properties only). Know what they have now?___________
FOUR T3000's! That's one more than we have.

Fact of the matter is, we have yet to see a "Z" in our market this year. Only PG's & T's.

I truly did not want to sink below your level, but you called me out, and I ain't takin' it anymore. Any one needing details, feel free to PM me. Proof's in the pudding, and never call me a liar again. Larry :hammerhead::hammerhead:

p.s. No T3000 owner has ever called a Z-Spray (or any other) representative foul names. Truth hurts -- don't it!!

i have to disagree with you on most accounts man, sorry

YOU of all people DO start with the sly off comments to egg on the others , and you do CLAIM useless things on the zsprays and other comments about them that are just not true.you go back and forth about how the z is not all that, and then next posting is they are great machines after you dogged on them for useless features just a bit ago!?!? i watch these threads for a while most of the time before posting and find you are the instigator like 80% of the time. As much as we are friends and i respect you, trying to blaim the zspray lovers on here for the things you conjour up in your head and put in writing on here is not cohesive. the so called CRAP that you mentioned starting with the intruduction of the T3000 was started with you egging all on here about revolutionary new product you could not tell us about, hush hush, it is the best, cant show you yet, took half a year to show us , no pictures etc etc!

That my friend started ALL this, and since then BOTH sides are to blame.

I think honestly that if you werent posting about this, no one else would have an issue, it aint the macine Larry, i think it is you.

RABBITMAN11
03-26-2010, 11:55 PM
I totally agree!!!
Posted via Mobile Device

sprayboy
03-27-2010, 08:23 AM
Terry -- The "broken record" always comes from the Z-Nazis downgrading TURFCO's new ride-on. (Not vice versa). "Claims" made by me (or others) regarding T3000's have been truthful (nomatter what you my think). :hammerhead: You say these "claims" are "false". You are so wrong my friend, and none of these "non believers" even know how we set up our units. :hammerhead:

This "crap" started when TURFCO introduced the T3000. My best guess is cuz Z-Nazis saw this as a 'threat' to their "world domination". :laugh:

If you noticed, I have tried not to "brag" about the T3000 for many months (even though we bought the first production unit). Only pointing out advantages/disadvantages/upgrades/helpful info, etc. Heck -- I have even sent out upgrade parts that we like at no charge to friends just to help 'em out, so I ain't in it for the money. Just trying to help friends that work as hard as we do.

Sittin' here with a buddy of mine I've known since '85. Has his own lawn company. Guess what.........they got rid of all but one Z (which they only use occasionally..huge properties only). Know what they have now?___________
FOUR T3000's! That's one more than we have.

Fact of the matter is, we have yet to see a "Z" in our market this year. Only PG's & T's.

I truly did not want to sink below your level, but you called me out, and I ain't takin' it anymore. Any one needing details, feel free to PM me. Proof's in the pudding, and never call me a liar again. Larry :hammerhead::hammerhead:

p.s. No T3000 owner has ever called a Z-Spray (or any other) representative foul names. Truth hurts -- don't it!!


Larry,
I didn't call you a liar.
I care less about how many z's or t's are in your market.
You post here what the z can't do when you don't really know.
Test driving a z for 5 minutes does not qualify someone to know what it will or won't do. This is what I am referring to about false claims. read my post again.

As far as the t...I have never run one nor do i post on here what it can or can't do. The only thing I have questioned is the footage you say you do in one day. I have asked you to clarify that but you won't answer the question. Look in the sticky thread at the top about the T.

Creech has asked you the questions also but you don't answer.

I have my opinion about the t but i'll keep it to myself. I have talked to 2 guys that have run them and they say things alot different than you do. They don't talk nearly as high about them, we'll just say that.

grassman177
03-27-2010, 08:34 AM
just calling it like it is, no offense larry, just calling it like it is. it is all in how you present things, not the machine itself

Victor
03-27-2010, 11:27 AM
Come on Larry. You can't say T's are better than Z's. That just isn't right. They're just different machines, that have different abilities and disabilities. Which one is better is just a matter of personal opinion.

You have to expect people to get ruffled when they read a post like the one you just wrote.
Posted via Mobile Device

rcreech
03-27-2010, 01:17 PM
I would have to agree Larry...you have started almost 80+% of all the Z vs T discussions on here!

I also agree with Victor as these machines are totally different so hard to compare!

You have posted many "numbers" on your machine...and when questioned you back pedal.

I have never called you a liar nor will I ever as I think of you as good freind...but I think you tell some fish stories from time to time, like when you did over 40 acres a day, then said you only spot sprayed vs putting down dry and spraying!

Have a lot of other examples also!

NO big deal at all, but don't make it sound like it is our fault these discussions take place!

As far as there not being any Z's in your area...it really doesn't matter as there are very few in mine also, but LT Rich couldn't take orders any faster...and they are shipping them SOMEWHERE! :)

grassman177
03-27-2010, 03:56 PM
i think it is great they are having such growth, but hopfully not to my area! ahah

Rando
10-19-2011, 01:47 PM
I think any of the 3 better known ride-on's (PG,Z,T) would be a much better choice than than than the northern turf spreader. I have only seen them in the magazine and wasn't impressed.

I have a SS 220 and it is a great machine. Can the other machines spray 16' path of herbicide and spread 16' granular fertilizer at the same time? The SS 220 can.

Rando
10-19-2011, 02:01 PM
MOB, I grew up not far from you on a NW Iowa farm, so common sense & trust goes a long way with me. IMO I would avoid the SS220 if you're looking for a ride-on that will last. IMO Z-Sprays & the T3000 are way ahead of the rest, but only one of the two is most practical (at least in our operation).

Z-Spray chart is misleading in our opinion. Here's a list of their so called advantages:
"zero turn" = two hands to steer :confused:
all stainless steel - who cares if it doesn't rust? :rolleyes:
220 lb hopper - We've run Spyker 220's for many years. Fine product, but matching that with only 18 gal = impractical. :cool2:
Hose reel: Why would anybody need a long hose if they have a ride-on? :hammerhead:
GPS speedometer: who needs one? anybody? :laugh:
3-section boom = look out for obstacles/damage/missed areas :hammerhead:
hydraulic drive hopper....been using Spyker hopper for many years. No advantage there either. :cool2:
Spread width up to 25 feet. Fine, but where's the spay pattern :confused:
18 gallon spray tank......ok, z-sprays beat the T3000 there by two gallons :laugh:
Then the "chart" goes on -- even comparing tire sizes.....what's that all about? If there's a benefit, please show me :laugh::laugh:
electric start: nice, but we never need it
5 gallon gas tank: We have never run out of gas unless we treat over twenty acres per day. Then we just carry a 2 1/2 gal gas tank to refuel once more.

Nuther thing to consider regarding "adding tanks & extra pumps", operating a unit like this will certainly keep your hands full.....especially when both hands are needed to steer it. Add it up, 2 hands to steer, then ask yourself if you need to spread fert or spray herbicides at the same time.

T3000 = "cumbersome". I think not, cuz it's the only ride-on we could spray & spread while throwing "frisbies" at the same time. The "hands free" feature is part of what sold us. :usflag:

The above are our employees' opinions. They are mine as well. We currently run three T3000's and no other ride-ons. Safety, ease of transportation, durability of product, route efficiency, safe maneuverability on slopes were not mentioned in this post, but they probably should have been, because these factors were important to us when making a buying decision.

Anybody want to see new pics of our twin receiver carrier racks (aluminum + steel)? :cool2:
Why, would you avoid the Northern Turf SS 220??

americanlawn
10-19-2011, 07:01 PM
1) High center of gravity.
2) Not built heavy duty enough/fear of part failures.
3) Operator fatigue.

We run three T3000 spreader/sprayers everyday. 15 - 30 accounts per day each. They don't break down. Easier to operate. Less operator fatigue. Can do several acres per hour.

I can update a 2008 T3000 & make it a 2012 unit (this is a true selling point).
Parts: We get parts within 24 hours
Company history: Nearly 100 years
Only ride-on we have NEVER seen on ebay = T3000.
Most common ride-on in our market is now the T. Then PG Magnum. Then Z-Spray.

Not saying the SS220 will not serve your needs, cuz I've never run one for more than a few minutes. Conversely, we have run PG's, Z's, and T's for several hours.

The only (American built) ride-on spreader/sprayers I would ever consider are Z-Spray and the T3000. Especially the 2012 T3000 (folks attending the GIE will see why).

my 2 cents

Service 1st Lawn Care
10-20-2011, 09:55 PM
I can update a 2008 T3000 & make it a 2012 unit (this is a true selling point).
Parts: We get parts within 24 hours
Company history: Nearly 100 years
Only ride-on we have NEVER seen on ebay = T3000.
Most common ride-on in our market is now the T. Then PG Magnum. Then Z-Spray.

:laugh::drinkup::dizzy::hammerhead::confused::sleeping:

americanlawn
10-23-2011, 03:58 PM
Not sure what all your "bells & whistles" are about--- just hoping folks can attend the GIE so they can see "first-hand" what we have been anticipating for years. Take care. :waving:

I can update a 2008 T3000 & make it a 2012 unit (this is a true selling point).
Parts: We get parts within 24 hours
Company history: Nearly 100 years
Only ride-on we have NEVER seen on ebay = T3000.
Most common ride-on in our market is now the T. Then PG Magnum. Then Z-Spray.

:laugh::drinkup::dizzy::hammerhead::confused::sleeping:

grassman177
10-23-2011, 06:58 PM
the ss220 looks like a toy.

Service 1st Lawn Care
10-23-2011, 07:17 PM
Not sure what all your "bells & whistles" are about--- just hoping folks can attend the GIE so they can see "first-hand" what we have been anticipating for years. Take care. :waving:

Your starting to sound like David from Lawn Solutions, just wait until next years model it's going to be the bestest thing ever.:laugh:

my 2 cents:confused: take care