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G Archer
03-21-2010, 05:00 PM
I have a centipede lawn that has various weeds including Henbit, dandelions, and clover. I would like to know what herbacides I need to spray them with. I live in Middle Georgia. Do I need to wait until the grass comes out of dormancy or can I spray now? Please help.
Thanks,
Glenn :confused:

RAlmaroad
03-22-2010, 05:12 AM
Do not do anything other than pulling some of the weeds just yet. When a turf is coming out of dormancy, it is very venerable to almost all chemical efforts. You could have used a little Simazine to kill off winter weeds a couple of months ago. However wait till full greenup after you've sprayed a non-chlorine based potassium (Potassium Nitrate) and grass is growing; then, and only then use Image. Image when grass is dormant will kill it quick. Or, you may have to read and apply Mansion (Manor/Lesco's Metsulfuron) for the clover. Pull up a label; I do not have my notebook here.
There's no such thing as a granular application for weeds so spraying with diluted chem will be required. How much turf are you needing to treat? Do you have irrigation? What is your soil base (Sandy, clay or loam)?
It is very important to keep the weeds from going to seed--even a high mowing will help with this; so use a bagger and stay off centipede as much as possible. Even during mowing season; mow it to 3".

G Archer
03-22-2010, 10:35 PM
Thanks so much for your response.The soil in my lawn is sandy loam.I have about 5000 sq ft with irrigation.Around what date will the centipede be considered out of dormancy? Thanks again,Glenn

RAlmaroad
03-23-2010, 06:30 AM
Glenn:
I have a brother that has the same name. That is an illusive question--you'll have to watch it. Generally after the 2nd mowing is out of dormancy. This depends on the surface conditions and more ground temp than anything. Are you spraying or dropping granulars for your fertilize? Anything with potassium derived from Muriate of Potash will slowly poision you grass and it will begin to die. Love that sandy loam. I have to battle almost pure sand. Do you mulch mow and throw the clipping out the side or bag them. I'm trying to watch the mowing practices on centipede. I've noticed that sod farms never mow and their grass never get too high nor looks weak. Mowing may be a culprit to centipede???? I have a small 500 sq ft. spot next to the road that I am not going to mow and only fertilize and water for a month-6 weeks to check my theory. My few customers may think it strange but I never know without trying. Hurry up and get 25 posts or more so that you can PM.
Roy

cgaengineer
03-23-2010, 07:36 AM
Do not do anything other than pulling some of the weeds just yet. When a turf is coming out of dormancy, it is very venerable to almost all chemical efforts. You could have used a little Simazine to kill off winter weeds a couple of months ago. However wait till full greenup after you've sprayed a non-chlorine based potassium (Potassium Nitrate) and grass is growing; then, and only then use Image. Image when grass is dormant will kill it quick. Or, you may have to read and apply Mansion (Manor/Lesco's Metsulfuron) for the clover. Pull up a label; I do not have my notebook here.
There's no such thing as a granular application for weeds so spraying with diluted chem will be required. How much turf are you needing to treat? Do you have irrigation? What is your soil base (Sandy, clay or loam)?
It is very important to keep the weeds from going to seed--even a high mowing will help with this; so use a bagger and stay off centipede as much as possible. Even during mowing season; mow it to 3".


I have never had trouble spot treating bermuda with Image just before it comes out of dormancy? I am not doubting you, I'm just saying I have never had trouble. I generally use less chemical then what label suggests so maybe that's the reason.

stimpy
03-23-2010, 07:45 AM
RALmaroad have you used primo maxx on centipede. I tried to get my brother to not cut his centipede last year but his kids did not like all the dew. Wet feet.

RAlmaroad
03-23-2010, 09:33 AM
I have never had trouble spot treating bermuda with Image just before it comes out of dormancy? I am not doubting you, I'm just saying I have never had trouble. I generally use less chemical then what label suggests so maybe that's the reason.

Cory: This is centipede. Bermuda--different ballgame.

cgaengineer
03-23-2010, 10:14 AM
Cory: This is centipede. Bermuda--different ballgame.

I misunderstood I knew we were discussing centipede,but I thought you were talking about all grass types coming out of dormancy...I understand that centipede can be very sensitive to herbicides.
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G Archer
03-23-2010, 10:00 PM
I am spreading granular 15-0-15. What is the best kind to use? Any tips on growing centepede would be appreciative.

Thanks,Glenn

ddishman
03-23-2010, 10:45 PM
I spoke to Dr. Tim Murphy today. He's retired now but most of the literature, turf trial reports and power point presentations put out by the University of GA Extension Service during recent years (related to turfcare) has his name on it. He said that his office typically gets more inquiries about problems with centipede, than all the other grass types combined. Thought y'all might find that interesting.

cgaengineer
03-23-2010, 11:21 PM
I spoke to Dr. Tim Murphy today. He's retired now but most of the literature, turf trial reports and power point presentations put out by the University of GA Extension Service during recent years (related to turfcare) has his name on it. He said that his office typically gets more inquiries about problems with centipede, than all the other grass types combined. Thought y'all might find that interesting.

I believe this. That being said, I have a friend who has it and he does nothing to it and it looks great, no herbicides and maybe one fert app per year. Nothing but mowing. He did spill some diluted round up which really put a clamp on its wellness in short order.
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RAlmaroad
03-24-2010, 06:34 AM
I am spreading granular 15-0-15. What is the best kind to use? Any tips on growing centepede would be appreciative.

Thanks,Glenn

NO, NO, NO, If you aim to kill it slowly. It will turn yellow, dry up and quit growing. It is the potassium chloride (Murate of Potash). You'd do better to put just Milorganite on it at 1/2lb of Nitrogen/K (8.5lb of product per 1000 sq. ft.)

G Archer
03-28-2010, 09:02 AM
Sorry for delayed post as I've been away from my computer.I have a small patch of weeds in my centepede that looks like Star of Bethleham.Any ideas when and what to spray it with. Thanks for the post,great folks here.


Glenn
Middle Georgia

Sawblade
03-28-2010, 04:46 PM
RAImaroad,
I'm curious as to where you've found literature regarding the problem associated with K derived from potash. I've never read anything that warns of that being a problem. General rule of thumb for centipede is don't apply anything with P (such as 15-0-15). Yellowing is usually a sign of iron deficiency which is why most 15-0-15 granulars labled as "centipede fertilizer" have extra iron added in.

RAlmaroad
03-28-2010, 07:43 PM
RAImaroad,
I'm curious as to where you've found literature regarding the problem associated with K derived from potash. I've never read anything that warns of that being a problem. General rule of thumb for centipede is don't apply anything with P (such as 15-0-15). Yellowing is usually a sign of iron deficiency which is why most 15-0-15 granulars labled as "centipede fertilizer" have extra iron added in.

Sawblade:
I've been on the coast for over 30 years, done about everything wrong that you can imagine when taking care of centipede grass, which is not native to the USA. I do have a degree in Agriculture and have extrapolated lots of info from many articles that I have read and college classes, worked with extension agents, universities, and many local sod farmers and conducted more experiments than you can shake a stick at. . Most of the info that I give freely to folks with centipede problems did cost me when I attended seminars on turf and turf management. However, here is a very good article that sums up a lot of my findings and tests. This guys only has 25 years of development and research; I have a few on him. Anyway: http://www.biggermouth.com/proper-centipede-lawn-care.htm
The yellowing that you speak of is NOT always an iron deficiency, like that on some turf types. Yellowing can come from other sources such as over watering, too much Nitrogen, AND chlorine or salt intolerant.
Centipede just does not go along with the practices of most grasses. Hope you read this and helps you out somewhat. After all of that, there is a genius that I run almost every thing bye that has forgotten more than I'll ever know. He has all of the advanced degrees in soil structure, plant biology, and everything else that grows from the ground up. Thanks for being concerned.

Sawblade
03-28-2010, 08:49 PM
RAImaroad,
Maybe I read your reply wrong, but me thinks me detect a wee bit of defensiveness and aggression in your reply.:nono:

I merely inquired as to where you derived your vast knowledge of centipede lawn care. As unusual as your approach sounded, I actually hoped to learn some obscure facts regarding the nurturing of said turf. On the contrary, your reply provided me with NO credible evidence as to the validity of your statements.

The link did make for some interesting reading, though. Interesting how none of the well respected turf programs of major universities (such as Clemson, UGA, Va Tech, U or Ark, to name a few) have produced any literature warning of the detrimental effects of potash (at least none that I have seen). Maybe your "genius" friend should enlighten them!

I'm well aware of the fact that centipede is not native to this country. I'm also quite familiar with the causes of yellowing in turfgrass. However, my statement clearly said that yellowing is "usually" a sign of iron deficiency. And for the record, I wasn't "concerned" as you so eloquently put it. I'd say curious and intrigued would be more accurate.

By the way, since you seem to be fond of credentials, I have a bachelor of science degree in Turfgrass from a major university, and have maintained a golf course or two in my nearly 20 years of experience. Not to mention a few lawns along the way. :waving:

RAlmaroad
03-29-2010, 07:30 AM
Welcome Sawblade: Look forward to seeing your advise on centipede. It's good to have someone else with knowledge and experience. Roy

Mr BC
03-29-2010, 03:42 PM
Hi all.

I'm wondering if I'm too late to put out pre-emergent on my centipede. I'm located in eastern NC, Nash county specifically. I've been all over the internet getting background info., etc. NCSU has a pretty informative site for turf grasses, and they mention putting out pre-emergent by the time the Dogwoods are in bloom, which is about now. Other sources (including friends with lawn businesses and golf course guys) I found indicate I can still put it out, including the Lesco guy.

I'm starting to see green, but upon inspection, it doesn't look like the centipede is green yet, just all the other junk. I realize I'm probably late for the stuff already coming up, but I know there is still plenty of weed season left that I could hopefully catch. I've got 0-0-7 Stonewall for this. If I can get it out this week should I be alright, or just save the bags for next February?

Any advice or thoughts are greatly appreciated. Thanks. (and please go easy on a newb..)

RAlmaroad
03-29-2010, 06:43 PM
Mr. BC:
Pre-em can be used anytime. However, if you apply it too early; a lot of the time that it is active will be lost because there's nothing germinating. If you apply it too late, then you miss the germination period of the seed. What happens when a pre-em (Prodiamine) attacks the hair root springing from the seed. Nothing will stop germination of the seed except great external forces like fire or weight. Prodiamine is the second least harmful of the pre-ems that cause root pruning. Root pruning is the stunting of the hair roots just like the seed puts out to set growth. Grass will recover from these feeders when the prodiamine begins to disappear. If you have not opened the bag, it might be to your advantage to swap the Stonewall for Dimension as it has some post-em qualities that will attack seedings that have set root for a couple of weeks. Gallery (Liquid pre-em) is by far the lease of all root pruners.
But you still have another problem. You will probably see a yellowing of your turf because the Muriate of Potash in both of these products is chlorine. Chlorine attaches to the roots of your grass and prevents the plant from using the micro-nutrients available. There's a product out there XL 2G that is granular. You can google the label and read about it. This could be applied to your centipede and then other products for your Nitrogen and potassium. Potassium sulfate would be better than Muriate of Potash. Even better than the potassium sulfate would be potassium nitrate. However, most of the time it is applied as a liquid. You could apply it in a solution of 14-0-44 provided you do not have too much to cover with a backpack. There's a smelly product that you could use for your nitrogen called Milogranite. It has no potassium in the bag but rich in organic material. Google its label and read.
You can do whatever you feel best. How did your lawn do last year? What did you do last year? You could just hire a pro, but even that would not insure that he is using the correct products.
Maybe you can get something from this/maybe not.
Anyway--go Wolfpack--I went to school there for a while.

Mr BC
04-02-2010, 02:03 PM
RAlmaroad,

Thanks for the info. So if I understand correctly, my main issue with timing is related to product efficiency and getting the most out of my money. I was thinking that, esp. since many of the weeds were already starting to show up (such is trying to find time with a new baby..). I think most of what I get are patches of other types of grass. My neighbor takes next to NO care of his lawn/meadow, so I'm sure I'm getting intrusion since he also likes to mow with his discharge facing my yard...arrggghhhh! Last season I didn't do anything and the spring weeds died off once the weather got good and hot. My wife thought the lawn looked fine so I guess that's all I need, eh?.. :)

I'll talk to the Lesco guy about the dimension. Does the yellowing due to chlorine go away as the pre-em dissipates or is there some other, more long-lasting damage done to the grass? I was thinking I'll save the Stonewall for nest season and just stick with fertilizer late this month or early next. I'll try to smarten up on the finer points of product composition. Thanks again.

RAlmaroad
04-02-2010, 02:25 PM
RAlmaroad,

Thanks for the info. So if I understand correctly, my main issue with timing is related to product efficiency and getting the most out of my money. I was thinking that, esp. since many of the weeds were already starting to show up (such is trying to find time with a new baby..). I think most of what I get are patches of other types of grass. My neighbor takes next to NO care of his lawn/meadow, so I'm sure I'm getting intrusion since he also likes to mow with his discharge facing my yard...arrggghhhh! Last season I didn't do anything and the spring weeds died off once the weather got good and hot. My wife thought the lawn looked fine so I guess that's all I need, eh?.. :)

I'll talk to the Lesco guy about the dimension. Does the yellowing due to chlorine go away as the pre-em dissipates or is there some other, more long-lasting damage done to the grass? I was thinking I'll save the Stonewall for nest season and just stick with fertilizer late this month or early next. I'll try to smarten up on the finer points of product composition. Thanks again.

Generally it will leave once the chlorine has gone on down. Since centipede is really not a green grass (More Apple Green) the effects will last about two-three weeks. Iron will little effect on this grass color but you could apply some. A better choice would be a micro-nutrient with iron if you can find anything in a granular form. I only use liquid applications. There's something know as split application of pre. Part is put down in early spring and another part in late summer. The most you'll be able to get from a pre-em is about 60 days. Check other posts on pre-ems as it was discussed thoroughly a few weeks ago. My pre-em of choice is "Gallery". It has very little root pruning. The kicker is that there is no chlorisis (yellowing) with it.
The split application will battle all of those summer weed seeds that are brought into your turf by wind or birds.
If you'd like, I suggest a little "Milogranite" to help out the lawn, if you have not put down any fertilize yet. Milogranite has not potassium and should green up the centipede a little more. It is enough Nitrogen to give the grass a kick. But you really need potassium for the roots to spread. I'd try to find some potassium nitrate in a granular form but that will be almost impossible. A second choice would be potassium sulfate. I've never used it and can't comment. But, I do know that Muriate of Potash will slowly decline centipede to just not growing to thinning, to seeing bare soil. It would be a very good thing to have a soil test to see what your pH is. This grass has got to have a pH of about 6.0. Higher calcium locks up the micro-nutrients and you just waste your fertilize. Centipede also has very shallow roots and almost floats on the ground. Therefore it needs a lot of water. Contrary to a lot of thinking, I water about every other day with close to 1/2". Of course we are in sand, and sand will not hold any water so the roots have got to kept moist especially in 115 degree temps in August.
So in the end, keep it moist, give it enough food and it will be fine.
Talking to it and brushing the grass seems to have a profound effect on this type of grass as it is so picky.