What speed can you still get a good cut?

[Doc Pete]

Hey Guy's,
I find myself getting the impression everyone with a rider is mower over 7/8 mph. Unless the world has changed I find it hard to believe this. I'm mowing, with a very good cut at basically 7 mph. I'm running a 54" Hustler WB at 3,800 rpm and double highlift blades. Furthermore, the other riders I see actually don't seem to be mowing as fast as I am. 60" riders are just too big for the lawns in my area, and/or will not give the quality of cut because of uneven ground.
The faster we mow the larger overlap is needed to make sure we don't goof up. I'm not looking to cause problems, I'm just really trying to understand what doesn't make sense. In other words, how can a 52"/54" rider at "basically" the limit of good cutting speed 6/7 mph seem to be cutting much faster than what I am. One thing for sure is, I can out turn a "zero turn" without any turf damage.
However, if everyone is using a 60"/72" machine and flying at 10mph and "accepting" a marginally good cut, I can see that. But still, I've already tried a lazer/Hustler Z and they still bounce on the ground a cut, so it's impossible to go faster than 6 mph. Is it possible the fantasitic times for mowing are open fields and don't include any trimming.
Finally, if this is true, then "walkers" that can't do much over 5 mph, should be out of business. After all, everyone is raving over the great bagging with the Scag/Toro/Exmarks, so there's no need for a Walker, within reason.
Please respond,
Thanks,
Pete

[ADMowing]

61" Bunton Twister 25HP - 11 mph

It totally depends on the condition of the turf what speed I mow at. If it is wet, I mow slower so I don't make scuff marks. If the bahia seeds are tall and mowing fast will not cut them all off, I'll mow slower. If I'm mowing a nice St. Augustine grass straight out without many turns, I'll mow faster.

Don't know if that's what you're looking for. We mow and go at a nursery that has weeds and grass and the man doesn't care about it, he just wants it mowed. We mow full speed! :D :waving:

[MikeLT1Z28]

well, with the metro 36" i will only get in 4th, can't run behind it in 5th that fast and control it.

with the 48" encore, i can run it wide open and cut fine, guessing 6 mph?

i've used 65hoss's lazer wide open with the mulch kit, side discharging and the ultravac and at 9.5 mph it looks as good as half speed.

of course all of this also relates directly to the conditions you are in.

[Shawn Burns]

Pete,
I know what you're saying. I have found that i can't mow at full speed almost all of the time on my Hustler z . I think there are alot of factors involved though. Some of which include grass type, moisture content, how thick the turf is, how much you are cutting off, smoothness of terrain, sharpness of blades, and many more variables i'm sure. Once you get several of these variables in your favor you can cut alot faster.
So, with all that being said, i think that in order to compare speed on mowers you would have to do so on the same property with all the factors being the same. That would be relativly hard to do seeing how alot of factors change from day to day.
I don't know if this helps at all, just my thoughts on the subject.

[BladeRunner Rep]

In the last 10 years all ztr manufactures have really advanced the mower decks to allow cutting at high speeds, this is done alot with how it is baffled and every manufacture has there own special way of doing this. Basically any commercial ztr manufacture today can mow on good groud at that machines full speed in ideal conditions! If it is not Ideal than naturally you will have to slow that machine down.

[LAWNGODFATHER]

13-15-17mph, if it will do it, the lawn will allow me to do it, I will run it that fast...................

[Doc Pete]

Originally posted by LAWNGODFATHER
13-15-17mph, if it will do it, the lawn will allow me to do it, I will run it that fast...................

OK, I'll believe you, but you've got a lot of "ifs" in there. I can see doing 17 on a putting green smooth lawn and taking off 1/2" of firm grass, but I'd still/really like to talk about the average 3/4 acre lawn, that's got small bumps/humps, trees, flowers, shrubs, maybe a swingset, or picnic table.
Actually, I didn't know there is a machine out there that can mow grass at 13mph and give a good cut. Is this really true??? I know right now, I can't mow at 7mph and still cut flowering clover without missing half the flowers.
Pete

[longviewlawncare]

John Deere 1445 outfront will cut great at 13 mph. it leaves an even cut and the decks floats good. depends on the mower, the conditions, and the operator.

[TLS]

Pete,

The time savings come in when a WB is topped out at 6-8MPH, and the Z's are capable of 10-15 mph. As soon as I hit an area thats already been cut, or a driveway, or transporting, BOOM up to full speed, slow down when its back to mowing. That there is where a WB would just put along in whatever gear/Hydro setting your in. The larger tires also help with the speed issue. They roll over most of the bumps we feel on the same lawn with a WB.

I cut as fast as the lawn will allow. A lot depends on the grass type, amount your taking off, and of course, the smootheness.

Remember, I'm the guy that cant get his SCAG WB to get out of 2nd gear and give a decent cut! My Lazer will cut at double that speed and give a BETTER cut!

:eek:

[1grnlwn]

Pete, You worry too much. You can only cram so much #### in a five pound bag. Ideal conditions? Yea thats going to happen a lot. I average about 5-6 mph on open yards with 61" ferris. Have speedo. Yea I have cut at 9 but just short bursts, hard to see obsticles, oh I forgot Ideal conditions. I saw this guy flying back and forth on a 20 foot side yard full speed. He made 7 passes, how many times did he cut that? Hp is important, tip speed sure and maybe they actually design a deck? I belive top speed is basicly one-upmanship to sell more mowers. Besides we should always worry about what we are doing and not what someone else is doing. Right? ( I have to remind myself that once a week or so)

Mark

[Richard Martin]

Like everyone here says, a lot depends on conditions. But there is another factor involved. It also has a lot to do with what kind of results you expect.

A lot of the cutters in my area do run their machine full speed if they can stand the ride. But when you compare their cut to mine there is a difference.

As was mentioned above, when they are done there are clover flowers still sticking up, grass stalks that are not cut and they've missed a 2" wide strip the whole way down the lawn. The same can be said for their trimming and blowing of walks and beds.

Can you cut all day at 10 mph? Sure! But don't expect the same results that you'd get going at 4,5 and 6 mph.

[65hoss]

If the lawn is smooth enough and long enough I can and usually do cut at wide open. The Lazer will cut the same at 100% as it does at 2mph. Its a matter of if you can stay on the machine and stop it at the end of a run.

[Albemarle Lawn]

18 sprayed with nitrous.

[yardboyltd]

One customer I have out in the country has a 3/4mile basically straight driveway to his house surround 20 ft of grass on each side. From the gravel road it dips slightly to a small creek crossing and the theres a safe grade going up towards the house. If your in for expensive thrills buy Z and put it down this hill a few times.... LOL. It's steep but not unsafe and goes for about 1/4 of a mile.. The tough thing is getting back up it... They say this gravely goes 10mph topspeed, but I think it goes a bit faster than that down this hill. As for cutting height on this one I mow at 4.5 being a country lane.

[Doc Pete]

Originally posted by 1grnlwn
Pete, You worry too much. You can only cram so much #### in a five pound bag. Ideal conditions? Yea thats going to happen a lot. I average about 5-6 mph on open yards with 61" ferris. Have speedo. Yea I have cut at 9 but just short bursts, hard to see obsticles, oh I forgot Ideal conditions. I saw this guy flying back and forth on a 20 foot side yard full speed. He made 7 passes, how many times did he cut that? Hp is important, tip speed sure and maybe they actually design a deck? I belive top speed is basicly one-upmanship to sell more mowers. Besides we should always worry about what we are doing and not what someone else is doing. Right? ( I have to remind myself that once a week or so)

Mark

Mark,
This is more how I mow, too. After speeding up my pumps to about 10mph, I really didn't like whole feeling. Things are just plain too fast for 1/2 to 3/4 acre residental lawns. There's too much concentration needed. For me, I found it mentally taxing, and no fun at all. Actually, more like my "autocross" days, just being fast doesn't actually make you faster. However, smoother does. I'm much smoother in the 5/7 mph range and lawns shows it.
On another point, if guy's are billing out at the rate of a 48 WB, ($50/$60/hour) and they are saying they are much/twice as fast with the rider, then my math must be wrong, or guy's are making well over $100/hour. Am I wrong????
thanks,:dizzy:

Pete

[robert payer]

Hey TLS,

You were talking about your Scag walkbehind that will not cut well above second gear. Had a similar problem with both a Scag belt and Hydro. The following solution worked wonders. No more problems with cut quality. Raise the deck to the highest setting at the power unit. Then run your suggested 3-4 spacers under the deck on each spindle. This will give the forward 1/4" deck tilt that every one speaks of. Like my self you probably cut very high. High cutting and middle deck mounting spells trouble. This has been the problem for us.

Hope that you get this message. Your frustrations have been experienced. Happy cutting!

[TLS]

Robert,

Thanks for the thoughts! I'm already doing that!

Engine-Deck on top mounting hole.

All 4 caster spacers under caster arm (all the way up).

Four blade spacers under spindle, one above.

This yeilds approx 3.5" height of cut with about a 0 deck pitch (OK with me) due to my tires and pressure. If I pump up the rears real high, I can get about a 1/8" front pitch, but it really rides rough.

I use fully sharpened to bolt solid lift foil (actually Bunton High Lift) blades. I added the turbo baffle and that helps the discharge. Its just the fact that in any gear above 2nd, the cut goes WAY down hill! Now my 2nd isn't creeping, I'd estimate it at 3mph but still, this just isn't right. I know the 14hp doesn't help, but deck design is a real factor here.

BTW.... I have the second generation deck. Not the first with a full straight trimside front, but the second with the notched in front trimside deck. Also not the third generation with the fully rounded trimside deck, or the fourth gereration Advantage deck.

I believe the design of the rear blade baffle to blade tip relationship combined with a rather low blade tip speed, and of course the underpowered 14hp on a 48" deck all contribute to my poor results.

If I'm only cutting 1-2" of grass off the top, its usually fine, anything higher or real thick turf or weeds, and sometimes 1st isn't slow enough!!!!
:rolleyes:

Thanks for thinking about me and my poor SCAG :D

[Doc Pete]

I may be missing something but aren't we talking about a fixed deck with front spacered castors?? If this correct, all you have to do is go the hardware store and buy (not sure of your size) 1" I.D. flat washers. They are about 1/8" thick. Just install the correct amount to lower the front end by 1/4".
Pete

[TLS]

Thanks Pete!

Also....Been there, Done that!

Actually used that back in the 90's with my JD front runners (talk about poor cutting!!!)

Its not the blade pitch in this case though. I can get from 0", 1/8", 1/4", 1/2", etc, and the only thing that improves the cut of the SCAG is LOWER cutting heights! :mad:

Thank goodness that this mower only sees about 4 hours use a week!

[yardboyltd]

This is where I use mine fullspeed... basically completely flat except for a 10' drainage rough, i go as slow as possible and still racks me!! :) Otherwise its handles forward to the max.

This is a nursing home situated in the middle of a rectangle. You are view the front left quartile with the other 3 being equall size. So yea that top end speed after awhile really helps, along with the 60"...

[wxmn6]

Ok let get back to the topic.

I have no idea how many mph I am going when mowing the lawn. I dont have speedometer. Thought about asking local cops with their radar gun to clock me but ....... I don't think so. :D

So I tried to do the math and to see if there is a formula that I could make and I did. It is for you guys who have no way of telling how many mph you are going at.

You will need 220 feet of straight run on normal lawn at normal condition and mow it at the normal speed that you run. All you need is a stopwatch. Be sure that you have blades running because it does affect the speed and the "feel". Time the amount of time in seconds that it take you to mow 220 feet of lawn. The "X" will represent the time in seconds. Multiple the "X" by 24 equal the answer "A". Then divide 3600 by answer "A" equal answer "B". The answer "B" is the MPH is the rate of speed you are mowing at.

"X" * 24 = "A"

3600 / A = B

B = MPH you are mowing at

For example it take you 30 seconds to mow 220 feet of lawn.

30 * 24 = 720

3600 / 720 = 5

5 = MPH

[Esby]

I run my Lazer somewhere between 7 and 9.5 on almost all properties. Like every one says, speed varies with conditions. It is key to have razor sharp blades to maximize the quality of cut at high speeds. I run wide open, sticks pushed all the way forward, (about 10mph) on this property. I think it looks pretty good myself. You be the judge.:cool:

[Doc Pete]

Originally posted by TLS
Thanks Pete!

Also....Been there, Done that!

Actually used that back in the 90's with my JD front runners (talk about poor cutting!!!)

Its not the blade pitch in this case though. I can get from 0", 1/8", 1/4", 1/2", etc, and the only thing that improves the cut of the SCAG is LOWER cutting heights! :mad:

Thank goodness that this mower only sees about 4 hours use a week!

Jeepers, I didn't they made crummy cutting machines anymore. Hell, even my "MTD White" tractor cut very well, once you adjust the deck right;)
Doesn't Scag have any help for you!!!
Pete

[Doc Pete]

Originally posted by Esby
I run my Lazer somewhere between 7 and 9.5 on almost all properties. Like every one says, speed varies with conditions. It is key to have razor sharp blades to maximize the quality of cut at high speeds. I run wide open, sticks pushed all the way forward, (about 10mph) on this property. I think it looks pretty good myself. You be the judge.:cool:

HUh, pass #7 is 4.5 degrees to the left at about 50 feet out. Just kidding:p It looks really good and the lines, too, especially at full bore..... Where can I get lawns like that. I have nothing that big at one shot. Maybe that's my problem.
Pete

[Esby]

Thanks for the tip there Switchless:) Here is another example of a lawn the gets cut at full bore. I wish I could have taken this photo from a higher vantage point as the stripes continue much further over the crest of the hill. But anyways, here's the picture:

[TLS]

Pete,

The SCAG is a '96 mut!! The only year for that second generation deck (may have been 1/2 year before and after though).

It cuts fine in normal conditions, but in the REAL WORLD, when you really need it to perform, it falls way short.

Actually a LOT of tractors and otherwise cheap homeowner mowers cut really good.

As for help....Well that would be like pushing a rope! Never tried, but to be honest, it does cut O.K. in normal conditions. Still WAY better than my JD front runners! But nowhere's near 1/2 as good as the Lazer!

It cuts like a dream at under 3"! But I and my customers demand a higher cut.

As for Esby's lawn picture....nice job! Thats just an average back yard (size) in my area.

[Esby]

TLS~
You are right on the money as far as average sized. I try to stay away from smaller properties that I can't use my machine to it's fullest potential. Drop the small ones and replace with larger ones....that’s my philosophy.

[Jimbo]

Good point WXMN6.

You and I were thinking the same thing (how many people really know how fast they are going)?

I know that I don't. My speedometer cable is busted on my ZTR, and I can't find my radar gun.

I'll have to stick to the formula.:dizzy:

[ProMo]

a few years ago when i mowing a church they were getting ready for a funeral and i had to get it done quick the police showed up for traffic control and were bored waiting so the next thing i see is they are hitting me with radar 16mph at full speed on my dc didnt miss a blade of grass blades have to be razor sharp seems like the machine has slowed down some over the years but still gives a nice cut

[Doc Pete]

Originally posted by Promo Lawn Services
a few years ago when i mowing a church they were getting ready for a funeral and i had to get it done quick the police showed up for traffic control and were bored waiting so the next thing i see is they are hitting me with radar 16mph at full speed on my dc didnt miss a blade of grass blades have to be razor sharp seems like the machine has slowed down some over the years but still gives a nice cut

Wow, from listening to everyone going so fast, you guy's must actually be making "well over" $100/hour. As I remember, most of charge by the time it would take a 48 walkbehind to do the job. Am I correct, or are you guy's flying around and still only making $50/$60 per hour.
Pete

[ProMo]

i probably made 1/2 of that first started biz i did 4 city block church and 8 acre cemetery for 700 dollars took 4+ hrs each they raised my price to 1600 after 8 years then 2 weeks later i get a letter saying they want a bigger company probably the best thing to happen to me definately woke me up good thing is a week later an old client calls to say they have an office complex they need done i get 1100 for 4 hrs this works out to 80 hr using a 36 taking my time yes my pricing was screwed but im learning or trying try to get help here almost went under

[rodfather]

I guess around 6 or so, Pete, with my Ferris WB's.

My Toro 72" Groundsmaters are another story though. They fly!!! I'm not even sure when they peg out at in mph. Doesn't matter cause at flat out speed on them, I can't stay in the seat unless I am crossing a parking lot...hard on the privates, if ya know what I mean. LOL.

I agree, though, with the other comments about ground conditions and the height of the grass that you're cutting. "Full Speed Ahead" is great and all...but not at the chance of having an accident as far as I am concerned...and I make that well-known with my employees, too.

[Jason_S]

I have an Etrex GPS that will tell you VERY accurate speeds. I use it for hunting, but I have found another neat use for it! I can find out how far I travel on a property and then I can also see the paths I took, kind of a neat thing to have

Also I can see average speed top speed... etc etc

All this for a little over $100 (112 I believe it was)

[FrankenScagMachines]

5.5mph with my 1989 Toro 32" rear engine rider. Still gets great cut! 8hp B&S I/C with oscillating balancer. 32" single blade deck.
PS yes it does cut great for a rear engine rider.
PPS - yes it does have a striping roller on the deck. That I made.

[Doc Pete]

Originally posted by BushHogBoy
5.5mph with my 1989 Toro 32" rear engine rider. Still gets great cut! 8hp B&S I/C with oscillating balancer. 32" single blade deck.
PS yes it does cut great for a rear engine rider.
PPS - yes it does have a striping roller on the deck. That I made.


You just have to show off, don't you:p
I'll have to show you a pic of my 1961 Hann Eclipse 21" trim mower. With the original engine it's still best little trimmer I've got. Solid Aluminum housing and light enough to lift with one hand. Works great for those special areas.
Pete

[sirsweatsalot]

well i know the old toro groundmaster 72" will top out right around 16-17mph and still looks good...on the other hand if its 8:30 in the morning and wet as a crotch on a hot after noon might as well bale all the grass and sell it to farmer brown.

[FrankenScagMachines]

Pete, I don't like to brag but I love to boast! LOL quoted from Kid Rock in one of his songs.
I would like to see a pic of your Hahn. what engine does it have? Heres my 1974 one pull start Toro self propelled 21" mower. Was given to me, change of oil, some gas and its off. I like it more than my newer Toro for some cases because its lighter and more manueverable (the other one is rear wheel drive w/bagger) this ones front wheel drive. I made the full length roller on it too. LOL I've got this thing for stripes and rollers and Toros don't i. This one has a old B&S I'm guessing 3 1/2hp or 3hp or so. But its as powerful as 6hp honestly. I have never been able to kill this motor even in thick tall (12"?) weeds even when the discharge chute clogged, its amazing. Its more of a trim mower or for very small areas than the newer, 1982 one but for big areas i'd prefer the '82 rear bagger. It goes straighter (less wheel wobble) bags, etc. more comfortable to use. But this '74 mower is a keeper too. Its the original engine too. You are going to have to get down and dirty to lift it, with both hands. Not too heavy, real shallow deck, but I think the deck is either thick steel or aluminum, not sure which. Oh yea it has a plastic plug in the deck, factory i think, well I think its for a garden hose to clean the deck out with the engine one, but theres no threads in the plug. Never used these top of deck plugs before because single blade mowers have never needed cleaning before even the 32" rider never needs cleaned out. I do clean it if I have done a weedy yard and it has weedseeds under the deck and i'm going to do a nicer one though. You can sometimes look under there and see the dandelion white fluff stuck under there LOL. Cool that I never have to clean mowers.... now youre really jealous aren'tcha? LOL
Eric