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View Full Version : what do you charge per 1k sq ft for pre and post emerg


OKIE LAWNS
03-25-2010, 04:58 PM
Hey guys, i am new to this site, please be gentle :)

Just wondered if i could get some feedback.

This is my second year to spray lawns in the oklahoma city metro area. Got my applicator license late in the season last year.. I was just wondering if i am pricing fair, or if i am too cheap/high.. i am getting quite a few lawns, but do not want to be the under cutter (TG)...LOL

I am pricing between 5-6$ per 1k sq ft for 10k and up

i am pricing most city lots 5-7k for about $40.00

am i priced too high?


oh by the way, since this matters i am spraying post and preemergent

Young Bros
03-25-2010, 05:52 PM
$40 covers 0-4,500 sq ft for us. About $8 per thousand on 10K.

SeedPro
03-25-2010, 07:06 PM
Hey guys, i am new to this site, please be gentle :)

Just wondered if i could get some feedback.

This is my second year to spray lawns in the oklahoma city metro area. Got my applicator license late in the season last year.. I was just wondering if i am pricing fair, or if i am too cheap/high.. i am getting quite a few lawns, but do not want to be the under cutter (TG)...LOL

I am pricing between 5-6$ per 1k sq ft for 10k and up

i am pricing most city lots 5-7k for about $40.00

am i priced too high?


oh by the way, since this matters i am spraying post and preemergent

You will be when you get into the 10-15,000 square foot range and up.

Bigger lawns go for less per thousand and I don't care what anyone says.

Think Green
03-25-2010, 08:13 PM
How many applications are you doing per season?
I don't do the granular thing other than ferts, so the number of apps is important to the cost.
For my commercial accounts we do 7 rounds and the resi's without watering systems get 4 rounds.
Our rates are around yours but our cost will not be the same as you. I know that if you are getting above 5.00 per K and better then you are in the right ball park.

SeedPro
03-25-2010, 09:25 PM
How many applications are you doing per season?
I don't do the granular thing other than ferts, so the number of apps is important to the cost.
For my commercial accounts we do 7 rounds and the resi's without watering systems get 4 rounds.
Our rates are around yours but our cost will not be the same as you. I know that if you are getting above 5.00 per K and better then you are in the right ball park.

Yeah but you'll get laughed off the porch if you quote someone with an acre 215.00

realist
03-25-2010, 10:07 PM
$300 - $400 per acre, we don't get laughed at. full program 1 acre $2400 - $3200 depending on terrain and conditions.

SeedPro
03-25-2010, 10:14 PM
Oh bullcrap....lol

Never fails....you guys come along making wild claims and you're just lying through your tooth.

LawnoftheMonth
03-25-2010, 10:29 PM
tg's price for an acre here is 220.00, mine is about the same.

thempikes
03-25-2010, 10:30 PM
Min is $41.00 for us. See our website - we publish prices.

That is not overpricing - try to get any professional tradesman out to your house and compare the price he charges.

SeedPro
03-25-2010, 10:45 PM
tg's price for an acre here is 220.00, mine is about the same.

Not to be rude but I'm not buying it.

SeedPro
03-25-2010, 10:48 PM
Min is $41.00 for us. See our website - we publish prices.

That is not overpricing - try to get any professional tradesman out to your house and compare the price he charges.

You charge 290 an acre?

lol

How many acre sizes lawns do you service.

RigglePLC
03-25-2010, 11:24 PM
Heard a rumor that a big company charges $6 per thousand plus $22 stop charge. But they often discount.

SeedPro
03-25-2010, 11:26 PM
Heard a rumor that a big company charges $6 per thousand plus $22 stop charge. But they often discount.

Me too. I charge 300 an acre with a 180 dollar an acre discount.

LawnoftheMonth
03-26-2010, 12:28 AM
Not to be rude but I'm not buying it.

not to be rude, but that is the way it is, lol.

OKIE LAWNS
03-26-2010, 10:08 AM
Yeah but you'll get laughed off the porch if you quote someone with an acre 215.00


I am confused... Laughed off the porch from being too low??

I quoted a 1 acre lot for $219.00 yesterday, and got it without a blink of an eye. I thought i was pretty fair at that price.


I appreciate all the comments in this thread.

thempikes
03-26-2010, 10:23 AM
You charge 290 an acre?

lol

How many acre sizes lawns do you service.

$223.00 and we service a lot.

Try fertilizing a lawn and spot treating for weeds (some times we blanket spray for nutsedge) in the summer @ 90 + plus temps at 9 AM. Apply 4.4 bags of fertilizer (1.5# N/mft) per acre. Some are level, most are not.

:walking:

lush&green
03-26-2010, 02:53 PM
tg's price for an acre here is 220.00, mine is about the same.

My acre price is more than that. We work in NY State!

SeedPro
03-26-2010, 03:35 PM
Well I charge 125 to 140 an acre. TGCL charges 80 an acre here in Michigan.

So if you guys are getting product at 15-16 a bag and such....consider yourselves blessed is all I can say.

You make a ton of profits we just don't see in the Midwest.

I bid a referral job the other day that was 39,000 sq feet, and he called today to tell me he chose another company. Not TGCL and they priced him at 65 dollars. I bid it at 115.

It cost me 50-55 dollars to do an acre in product alone

turfman07
03-26-2010, 08:37 PM
Well I charge 125 to 140 an acre. TGCL charges 80 an acre here in Michigan.

So if you guys are getting product at 15-16 a bag and such....consider yourselves blessed is all I can say.

You make a ton of profits we just don't see in the Midwest.

I bid a referral job the other day that was 39,000 sq feet, and he called today to tell me he chose another company. Not TGCL and they priced him at 65 dollars. I bid it at 115.

It cost me 50-55 dollars to do an acre in product alone


If thats all I could make, I would find something else to do. your crazy.

SeedPro
03-26-2010, 08:50 PM
I still double and sometimes triple my money. If I could rob people blind like you guys, Id be a low baller stealing all your jobs because I couldn't sleep at night trying to charge what you guys claim to charge.

I also do tree spraying and Machine seeding/renovation and make good money there.

Honestly I think you guys that charge that kind of money are ripping your clients off.

No offense of course.

:rolleyes:

Think Green
03-26-2010, 09:00 PM
Seedpro,
I am not getting 200.00 per acre either. All I stated was the price for smaller properties.
135-145 per acre is about all I can get. So, to be honest, I prefer lawns that are 15 K and under to make money for our company. I leave those acre lots and large lawns to my other competitor, whom can do those lawns in a hurry with his ride ons and z's. But I can guarantee he is making more than I am per acre.
I know that profit and cost is area sensitive and according to the supply and demand of your customers. Product availability is a factor and the cost of the product in your region. It is no secret that a gallon of barricade will cost more or less depending on the market you live.

SeedPro
03-26-2010, 09:07 PM
Seedpro,
I am not getting 200.00 per acre either. All I stated was the price for smaller properties.
135-145 per acre is about all I can get. So, to be honest, I prefer lawns that are 15 K and under to make money for our company. I leave those acre lots and large lawns to my other competitor, whom can do those lawns in a hurry with his ride ons and z's. But I can guarantee he is making more than I am per acre.
I know that profit and cost is area sensitive and according to the supply and demand of your customers. Product availability is a factor and the cost of the product in your region. It is no secret that a gallon of barricade will cost more or less depending on the market you live.

Oh theres no question the smaller ones are where the money is. I just happen to be getting called out on a number of leads this spring for acre sized jobs and I'd prefer not too but cant pass up the opportunity to try to get it at my price.

I don't understand companies that charge 40 for a 4000 square foot lawn charging 80 for a lawn ten times that big.

It's not logical. I know our price per thousand in this market goes down as the lawn gets larger but ffs.....the lowballing is out of control anymore.

turfman07
03-26-2010, 09:18 PM
Guys, I guess we should all lower our prices to what SeedPro is charging because anything more and we are just ripping people off.

Kevin M.
03-26-2010, 09:52 PM
I agree with the guys who get $ 350 per acre since I do that as well here in the southeast and then some. For example you have 9 yards at 5200 sq feet each and you charge that client $ 50 per application well last time I looked thats $ 450 per acre which I get all day everyday when I am out doing apps. Guys its not that hard and not rocket science most clients want there grass green and I make it green. The only competition we have here is the individual landscape companies that have there maintenance crews spread and spray the grass and Lawn Doctor. I feel I give much better results than Jose does when he mows the lawn and sprays the weeds and who knows if he waters the fertilizer in. Just my 2 cents

SeedPro
03-26-2010, 10:15 PM
Guys, I guess we should all lower our prices to what SeedPro is charging because anything more and we are just ripping people off.

Yup. I think if you get what you say you get you're ripping people off or lying though your "tooth"

I don't know how many jobs or clients you guys have but if you get that per acre you should be driving new corvettes and have three vacation homes in the Caymans.

Which I doubt because A) I don't believe most of you, and B) You drive pickup trucks and can't hardly pay your bills.

I won't believe you get 300- to whatever hilton head says at 450 an acre until I hear it from the person who writes the check.

Im not saying I don't believe I should get more....but some of the wild assed claims you guys are making are just plain lies.

:)

Dandylyin Slayer
03-26-2010, 11:03 PM
I luv low ballers like seed! After one season of his kind of service, people beg for my kind of service. :walking:

Course we shouldn't argue with seed about his prices, HE KNOWS WHAT HE IS WORTH!!

jasontimm
03-26-2010, 11:22 PM
I'm sure most of us can agree that diffrent areas of the U.S have diffrent markets, and prices, i wish i could get 3 or better yet 400 an ace. but i would get laughed off the property where i'm at. Its a free market, if you can get 80 dollars for a 4k lawn then great, people have the right to price around and go with a less expensive company if they want. Nothing wrong with making a good living......right? I hope we all get rich and can retire young.

SeedPro
03-26-2010, 11:28 PM
I luv low ballers like seed! After one season of his kind of service, people beg for my kind of service. :walking:

Course we shouldn't argue with seed about his prices, HE KNOWS WHAT HE IS WORTH!!


lol....whatever hillbilly. I have more money than you'll ever dream of.

And I don't lie like you rednecks do. Your name suits you. Dandy Lyin. ahahaha.

:laugh:

Dandylyin Slayer
03-26-2010, 11:42 PM
Seed you sure helped us understand why you can't afford to run any of the newer chemicals. You HAVE stick to your 24D amine down at the farm store! LOL

You sure are quick to call all these men liars concerning prices, I think you need to apologize to them .

YOU BEEN A BAD LOW BALLER !!! SHAME ON SEED!!! :hammerhead:

SeedPro
03-27-2010, 12:08 AM
Seed you sure helped us understand why you can't afford to run any of the newer chemicals. You HAVE stick to your 24D amine down at the farm store! LOL

You sure are quick to call all these men liars concerning prices, I think you need to apologize to them .

YOU BEEN A BAD LOW BALLER !!! SHAME ON SEED!!! :hammerhead:

Well prove me wrong and prove to us all you get 400 an acre.

It's in your court. Hillbilly.

turfman07
03-27-2010, 12:32 AM
Yup. I think if you get what you say you get you're ripping people off or lying though your "tooth"

I don't know how many jobs or clients you guys have but if you get that per acre you should be driving new corvettes and have three vacation homes in the Caymans.

Which I doubt because A) I don't believe most of you, and B) You drive pickup trucks and can't hardly pay your bills.

I won't believe you get 300- to whatever hilton head says at 450 an acre until I hear it from the person who writes the check.

Im not saying I don't believe I should get more....but some of the wild assed claims you guys are making are just plain lies.

:)


And you probably run your business out of your house...and are not paying any employees? Not saying that there is anything wrong with that, but to have a real business costs alot.

SeedPro
03-27-2010, 12:37 AM
And at the end of the day I make more net income than you and have a larger gross and net business profit. It's not my fault you don't know how to control expenses.

jasontimm
03-27-2010, 12:51 AM
And at the end of the day I make more net income than you and have a larger gross and net business profit. It's not my fault you don't know how to control expenses.

Kind of hard to argue with that!:waving:

Dandylyin Slayer
03-27-2010, 09:13 AM
Well prove me wrong and prove to us all you get 400 an acre.

It's in your court. Hillbilly.


I never said anything about 400 an acre !

How bout that apology to all the guys you called LIARS ?????

realist
03-27-2010, 09:25 AM
3000 customers, those are the prices we get, $300 - $400 an acre

thempikes
03-27-2010, 11:29 AM
Seed pro ???? (obviously no real name)

We were all young and stupid once....I shouldn't be offended by your comments but I am offended when you "don't buy it". No one is selling you anything.

Oh by the way, I just ran a summary report on my Real Green Software. The total Dollars of revenue divided by total acres = $386.83/acre. Lots of stops and many small properties.

Guess I am the only person that signs my real name. :usflag:

SeedPro
03-27-2010, 03:56 PM
I never said anything about 400 an acre !

How bout that apology to all the guys you called LIARS ?????

Why should I. I still think you're full of it.

:)

Until you prove me wrong....you are at least.

SeedPro
03-27-2010, 03:59 PM
Seed pro ???? (obviously no real name)

We were all young and stupid once....I shouldn't be offended by your comments but I am offended when you "don't buy it". No one is selling you anything.

Oh by the way, I just ran a summary report on my Real Green Software. The total Dollars of revenue divided by total acres = $386.83/acre. Lots of stops and many small properties.

Guess I am the only person that signs my real name. :usflag:

Then you aren't getting 3-400 an acre. Just like I figured. You guys take a small one and multiply it to reach an acre and shoot if you want to do that I get 350 to 450 an acre too.

The question is.....let me see if I can make this simple so you can all easily understand.

If one lawn.....that's 1 lawn if you prefer numbers and find them easier to understand.....a single lawn if you prefer, was 43,560 square feet.

What does your average customer pay?

Not 10 small ones to add up to an acre.....FFS.

:rolleyes:

Your real name is ThemPikes? Were your parents in the fishing business by chance? Thats a really odd real name. Is your first name "Them"

TJLANDS
03-27-2010, 04:13 PM
3000 customers, those are the prices we get, $300 - $400 an acre

Hows Drew doing?

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-27-2010, 04:36 PM
Hahahahaha. SeedPro, SeedPro, SeedPro. It's because of clowns like you that I hardly ever visit this site anymore...

In one thread you're bragging about how you set your prices so high that you've never had to increase anyone's price in 5 years...

And yet here, you're blasting people who charge MORE than you do - WHEN YOU, IN FACT, ARE THE CHEAPEST OF ALL!!!! :hammerhead:

Small minded.

(And, as a side note: the more you talk #'s, the more you brag... the less any of us believe.) So maybe next time you can keep your hypocrisy to yourself.

One last thing: talking costs means NOTHING if we're not including what those costs are buying. A blanket spray of weed killer is hardly on par with a fertilizer/weed/insect treatment...

SeedPro
03-27-2010, 04:42 PM
Hahahahaha. SeedPro, SeedPro, SeedPro. It's because of clowns like you that I hardly ever visit this site anymore...

In one thread you're bragging about how you set your prices so high that you've never had to increase anyone's price in 5 years...

And yet here, you're blasting people who charge MORE than you do - WHEN YOU, IN FACT, ARE THE CHEAPEST OF ALL!!!! :hammerhead:

Small minded.

(And, as a side note: the more you talk #'s, the more you brag... the less any of us believe.) So maybe next time you can keep your hypocrisy to yourself.

One last thing: talking costs means NOTHING if we're not including what those costs are buying. A blanket spray of weed killer is hardly on par with a fertilizer/weed/insect treatment...


Where have I bragged? I'm just saying these guys that claim to get 3-400 to treat one lawn and one acre are lying.

And I don't raise prices because I'm not greedy and selfish like you.

:)

You should stop by more often. You're fun to play with.

:laugh:

turf hokie
03-27-2010, 05:45 PM
Hahahahaha. SeedPro, SeedPro, SeedPro. It's because of clowns like you that I hardly ever visit this site anymore...

In one thread you're bragging about how you set your prices so high that you've never had to increase anyone's price in 5 years...

And yet here, you're blasting people who charge MORE than you do - WHEN YOU, IN FACT, ARE THE CHEAPEST OF ALL!!!! :hammerhead:

Small minded.

(And, as a side note: the more you talk #'s, the more you brag... the less any of us believe.) So maybe next time you can keep your hypocrisy to yourself.

One last thing: talking costs means NOTHING if we're not including what those costs are buying. A blanket spray of weed killer is hardly on par with a fertilizer/weed/insect treatment...

I miss you Whoop:cry:

But I dont visit as often as I used to anymore either.

If seedpro (BobbyG. JR) looked at the other thread that he is having a similar conversation in. He would note that Michigan's cost of living and doing business is significantly LESS than what other parts of the country are. Therefore, he does not charge what guys like me need to charge. I dont own all those things he talks of, nor do I over charge my customers. My pricing is in the middle of the road.

Seed pro, I dont know what you are looking for in continuing to ask for "PROOF" I wont post my pricing schedule on here, too many eyes and too much competetion these days, nor will I post a signed contract. So I guess I am one of those liars as well.

Take my word for it, my AVERAGE per ACRE price is about double yours. That is for large commercial properties. I am not talking about taking a 5 k lawn and mulitplying it by 8.5 to get my price either.

turf hokie
03-27-2010, 06:11 PM
3000 customers, those are the prices we get, $300 - $400 an acre

Not as many customers but we are big enough to agree that this is accurate on residential houses in this area.

Just for fun I just took my 5k price and multiplied it by 8 and I guess I charge over $500 per acre doing it that way!!!!

thempikes
03-27-2010, 07:12 PM
[QUOTE=SeedPro;3491307]Then you aren't getting 3-400 an acre. Just like I figured. You guys take a small one and multiply it to reach an acre and shoot if you want to do that I get 350 to 450 an acre too.

The question is.....let me see if I can make this simple so you can all easily understand.

If one lawn.....that's 1 lawn if you prefer numbers and find them easier to understand.....a single lawn if you prefer, was 43,560 square feet.

What does your average customer pay?

Not 10 small ones to add up to an acre.....FFS.

:rolleyes:

Don't respond to any of my posts and I won't respond to any of yours.

SOME PEOPLE JUST DON'T GET IT AND YOU ARE ONE OF THEM....FOLKS HERE ARE TRYING TO HELP YOU BUT YOU KNOW EVERYTHING. YOU MUST BE THE BIGGEST LAWN CARE COMPANY IN NORTH AMERICA. And young and stupid.

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-27-2010, 08:14 PM
I miss you Whoop:cry:

Awwwww, shucks. :waving:

NattyLawn
03-28-2010, 12:25 AM
Awwwww, shucks. :waving:

Me too. I always enjoyed the year end 90 lawns in a day winterizer threads and an in general common sense that some on here lack.

phasthound
03-28-2010, 09:31 AM
Where have I bragged? I'm just saying these guys that claim to get 3-400 to treat one lawn and one acre are lying.

And I don't raise prices because I'm not greedy and selfish like you.

:)

You should stop by more often. You're fun to play with.

:laugh:

C'mon guys, stop feeding the troll.

SeedPro
03-28-2010, 10:45 AM
C'mon guys, stop feeding the troll.

Are you 12? You don't look 12. Do you send 2000 text messages a week and like Taylor Lautner and Ke$ha too?

Quit acting like a child....Barry.

We are having a legitimate discussion here albeit a little off topic and confrontational and if I call shenanigans on someone who claims to charge 300% more than the rest of the country....well then that is my right here and frankly it's important. There is a lot of new people here all the time and for them to be misled by charletons isn't good for the industry.

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-28-2010, 10:55 AM
We are having a legitimate discussion...

Is that what you call this? You waltz in and declare us ALL (because every one of us is more expensive than you) LIARS or CROOKS.

That's an awesome discussion.

SeedPro
03-28-2010, 11:12 AM
Someone who embellishes or doesn't tell the truth is a liar. I'm sorry. It's a legitimate word.

I simply do not believe there are people in this country that pay a lawn service 300 to 400 dollars an application to fertilize 1 acre of turf with standard fertilizer products.

I have also given everyone the chance to prove me wrong and make me eat crow or humble pie.

No one takes me up on that offer. I wonder why.

whoopassonthebluegrass
03-28-2010, 11:53 AM
No one takes me up on that offer. I wonder why.

Is it because of your ignorant "shoot first, ask questions later" routine, perchance?

thempikes
03-28-2010, 12:11 PM
[QUOTE=phasthound;3492292]C'mon guys, stop feeding the troll.[/QUOTE

Agreed.

thempikes
03-28-2010, 12:21 PM
Hey guys, i am new to this site, please be gentle :)

Just wondered if i could get some feedback.

This is my second year to spray lawns in the oklahoma city metro area. Got my applicator license late in the season last year.. I was just wondering if i am pricing fair, or if i am too cheap/high.. i am getting quite a few lawns, but do not want to be the under cutter (TG)...LOL

I am pricing between 5-6$ per 1k sq ft for 10k and up

i am pricing most city lots 5-7k for about $40.00

am i priced too high?


oh by the way, since this matters i am spraying post and preemergent


Look at my website. These are real and competitive prices. My opinion is that you are too low.

Hope this helps.

Forget the BS that's been posted on this thread. A very few people need a lesson in manners. You've asked a legitimate question and the thread got hijacked.

turf hokie
03-28-2010, 12:23 PM
I have also given everyone the chance to prove me wrong and make me eat crow or humble pie.

No one takes me up on that offer. I wonder why.

Sorry Barry, but for once I think this will be fun..I miss BobbyG and this is a distraction for a bit, but I agree with Whoop, it is this constant crap that runs the knowledgeable, helpful guys away.

It is like asking for peered reviewed studies everytime some one posts an opinion on a product or method.

Seed, you have been told or insinuated by operators in different parts of the country, that have no relationship to each other, that the following hold true as simple truths of business:

A) cost of living differ
B) cost of business differ
C) different markets will bear different pricing

This means that yes some guys/areas WILL get 300-400 per acre

If you charge a customer $10 for an item and I charge $25 for same item, but in a different part of the country, with the above 3 items in mind....would it not stand to reason that at the end of the day we are probably making the same margin?

This does not make us liars, but you ignorant to how business is run.

What "proof" are you looking for? a scanned piece of paper that has an address, acreage, and price so that you can say it was altered? and still does not qualfy as "proof"?

turfman07
03-28-2010, 12:30 PM
SeedHack,
You have showed your ignorance on this site several times already and people are starting to see right through you. One of these days, if you ever get the chance to have a "Real" company, maybe you will see the light. However, after wading through all the BS that you post on here, I doubt that you will ever make it that far.


Anybody on here who charges more than SeedHack is a LIAR!!!!!

turf hokie
03-28-2010, 12:32 PM
Look at my website. These are real and competitive prices. My opinion is that you are too low.

Hope this helps.

Forget the BS that's been posted on this thread. A very few people need a lesson in manners. You've asked a legitimate question and the thread got hijacked.

You are correct Ron, and apologize to the OP for giving in to the hijacking.

Now for my area and what seems to be an average around the country, your 5-7 k pricing at $40 seems low. Our minimum stop is $45 for a basic program.

Your pricing per k for 10k + is probably competetive IF your base pricing is on par, otherwise it will be low

ie. if you are at $40 for 7k then 20 k would be $118 no? that would be low in my opinion.

My idea of a fair price is when you close about 50% of you bids. Close less than 40% your high, close more than 65% you are low.

Good luck

Ignore Seed Pro, the rest of us are beginning to........

SeedPro
03-28-2010, 12:38 PM
You couldn't ignore me if you tried.

Sorry Barry, but for once I think this will be fun..I miss BobbyG and this is a distraction for a bit,


And explain to me how talking about pricing an acre is somehow hijacking this kids thread about pricing 5 to 7000 sq ft?

:rolleyes:

Runner
03-28-2010, 01:19 PM
Actually,...what needs to be discussed (or how this should be discussed) is not what everyones' prices per acre are. It is how much they are charging per M, AFTER (in other words not including) their stop fee, and based on a 6 application program (if that is what they do). the reason I say based on a 6 ap program, is that obviously, if someone says they want "3" or "2" applications or something, they are NOT going to get the same price as if they took the whole program.
By doing it this way, on a per M basis, it will give a more accurate detail of what everyone is charging around the country. Doing it the other way, just leaves too much variable in the TYPES and numbers of different types they do - such as numbers of large wide open areas compared to small city lawns.
Now personally? I like the small city lawns best, too. I make as much or more off the "stop fee" than the application itself. Anytime I can drive up, throw a couple of bucks worth of product down, and collect what I do, yes...I would rather have several of those over a few larger areas - provided I'm in a rather tight route with them, of course.

turf hokie
03-28-2010, 03:27 PM
You couldn't ignore me if you tried.




And explain to me how talking about pricing an acre is somehow hijacking this kids thread about pricing 5 to 7000 sq ft?

:rolleyes:

Watch me ignore you from now until you have something intelligent to bring to the table.

phasthound
03-28-2010, 03:36 PM
I just got home from a road trip to find an unsolicited lawn care quote from a repected company in my mail box.

A 6 step program for $457.43 annual fee & they'll throw in a free lime application valued at $88.00. Sounds great, I have 1,000sq ft of lawn.
Somebody please help me with the math.

Shegardi
03-28-2010, 03:47 PM
Let's see....midwest vs east coast....

real estate is higher on east coast
freight is higher on east coast (product cost)
taxes are higher on east coast
regulatory costs are higher on east coast
insurance is higher on east coast

due to the above, payroll is higher on east coast

I use to live in Philly area and compared to OH and MI it is night and day in the cost of running a business. If the east coast guys charged $ 180/Ac they would not survive

jasontimm
03-28-2010, 04:15 PM
I just got home from a road trip to find an unsolicited lawn care quote from a repected company in my mail box.

A 6 step program for $457.43 annual fee & they'll throw in a free lime application valued at $88.00. Sounds great, I have 1,000sq ft of lawn.
Somebody please help me with the math.

Holy Sh*t, thats only $76.24 dollars a K, you cant hardly afford to pass that up can you?:confused:

Thats it!! i'm moving to Jersey.

Runner
03-28-2010, 05:25 PM
I just got home from a road trip to find an unsolicited lawn care quote from a repected company in my mail box.

A 6 step program for $457.43 annual fee & they'll throw in a free lime application valued at $88.00. Sounds great, I have 1,000sq ft of lawn.
Somebody please help me with the math.

This is cool,...and thank you or posting this, as this can certainly help us on this very subject. Let's break this down a little bit. Let's take the 457.53 and first divide this into our 6 aps. This will give us $76.25. Now, let's subtract a stop fee of - let's say $25. This gives us an ap of $51.25. Divided by your 1000 M, that gives them a rate of - well? $51.25 per thousand. If we put that to an acreage rate, that would give this guy a rate of $2,232.66 (rounded down) per acre.:clapping::laugh: That's a BARGAIN! And just for the sake of conversation, let's say your post was a typo, and you have 10,000 sq. ft., not 1000. Then it would be a rate of $223.26 (again, rounded down) per acre.
Gee,..How can a company POSSIBLY afford to put down $1.35 worth of lime (an $88 value):laugh: for free? :rolleyes:

lawnlandscape
03-28-2010, 05:40 PM
Me too. I charge 300 an acre with a 180 dollar an acre discount.

Please tel me you don't do an acre for $120. If you do, your lowballing and undercutting the industry.

Runner
03-28-2010, 06:13 PM
Around here, that is what our acres go for. It doesn't matter if it is the half dozen private companies, Lawn Doctor franchise, Weed Man, Scott's, or tru brown. This is our price schedule, and is approximate of what is charged here, and what is expected. I realize it sounds low,...but those are the current rates (approximate) here. And no,...we are NOT lowballing. If we tried getting 180/acre, we would go out of business, because NO one would pay in to it.

phasthound
03-28-2010, 06:18 PM
This is cool,...and thank you or posting this, as this can certainly help us on this very subject. Let's break this down a little bit. Let's take the 457.53 and first divide this into our 6 aps. This will give us $76.25. Now, let's subtract a stop fee of - let's say $25. This gives us an ap of $51.25. Divided by your 1000 M, that gives them a rate of - well? $51.25 per thousand. If we put that to an acreage rate, that would give this guy a rate of $2,232.66 (rounded down) per acre.:clapping::laugh: That's a BARGAIN! And just for the sake of conversation, let's say your post was a typo, and you have 10,000 sq. ft., not 1000. Then it would be a rate of $223.26 (again, rounded down) per acre.
Gee,..How can a company POSSIBLY afford to put down $1.35 worth of lime (an $88 value):laugh: for free? :rolleyes:

That's no typo, 1,000 sq ft of turf in front yard, none in the rear as that's for the dogs, veggie garden & shade garden. In all fairness, I'm sure the estimate was based on property size information without a site inspection.

I guess I need to adjust our fertilizer prices when I enter into sales negotiations with this company. :dizzy:

SeedPro
03-28-2010, 07:30 PM
Please tel me you don't do an acre for $120. If you do, your lowballing and undercutting the industry.

Yup. I do. I have some at 140.....a few at 150 plus but it's rare.

Tru Green does acres here in my area for 80 to 100 dollars, and so does the second largest company, and so do a lot of guys. I am actually one of the most expensive applicators in my area.

Runner is in the same area and has about the same pricing as I do if I am not mistaken.....he can verify what prevailing rate is up here.

Edit: I see he already confirmed with a post.

Do we wish we could get more? Certainly. I feel 150 to 175 an acre is fair.....but we have to put food on the table too and we still make money at the end of the day.

Runner
03-28-2010, 09:45 PM
But what I want to know is the PRODUCT prices for these areas that are getting 300/acre. Where we are spending around 13/bag for say 32-0-6, or 14.50/bag for 24-0-11 50% scu, w/%fe, I am wondering if their product prices are the same. They must be close, which would tell us that they have a much higher gpm (gross profit margin) than we do. I asked this once before, it may be in the other thread, but I'm not sure if it got an answer. Can you guys help us out on this? :dancing:

SeedPro
03-28-2010, 10:02 PM
But what I want to know is the PRODUCT prices for these areas that are getting 300/acre. Where we are spending around 13/bag for say 32-0-6, or 14.50/bag for 24-0-11 50% scu, w/%fe, I am wondering if their product prices are the same. They must be close, which would tell us that they have a much higher gpm (gross profit margin) than we do. I asked this once before, it may be in the other thread, but I'm not sure if it got an answer. Can you guys help us out on this? :dancing:

Honestly I am sure there is no one getting 300 to 400 an acre. Like another guy said here they are adding up 7-10 small ones to equal an acre.

I don't doubt there are areas that get maybe 200 but any more than that is robbery in my opinion.

And I doubt they are paying 45 dollars a bag either which would be three times what we pay, and charging three times what we charge. Granted there are areas like New York that have a load of restrictions and qualifiers....even increased fee's.....but several guys from Kansas have chimed in they are getting a lot for an acre and they hardly have any of the same rules we have to follow. I don't even think they have to leave a marking flag.

I actually sold a 3 app program to an old couple who's son that I do refered me on Saturday for 170 an app for 48000 square feet and I still feel as though I took advantage.


I still think some of these guys are flat out BS'ing us and or not talking about 1 stop, 1 acre, 1 customer deals.

lawnlandscape
03-28-2010, 10:10 PM
Around here, that is what our acres go for. It doesn't matter if it is the half dozen private companies, Lawn Doctor franchise, Weed Man, Scott's, or tru brown. This is our price schedule, and is approximate of what is charged here, and what is expected. I realize it sounds low,...but those are the current rates (approximate) here. And no,...we are NOT lowballing. If we tried getting 180/acre, we would go out of business, because NO one would pay in to it.

Funny, because, with all respect, I get those rates..... and .... I have an alliance with a few other landscape contractors (we don't take each others jobs), and they charge very similar rates as I do.

1 acre = $189.95

Runner
03-28-2010, 10:19 PM
Oh, I believe you...
I still want to know the product prices, though!!!! LOL

lawnlandscape
03-28-2010, 10:32 PM
My product prices average about 1.90 per k. That is just the pesticides & ferts

nicelawns
03-28-2010, 10:36 PM
I charge 225 an acre as well

nicelawns
03-28-2010, 10:49 PM
6 dollars per 1,ooo sqft x 43,560= 261.36 dont understand the argument

nicelawns
03-28-2010, 10:56 PM
It wasent me

Runner
03-29-2010, 12:12 AM
Wow,..yeah,...so your ,material costs are right in line with mine. Mine are just a little less for a good fert. like our 24-0-11 and blanket of something like Eliminate LO. You guys have a great margin in that department. Now, I realize that you shop rent or payment is probably more, along with other costs, as your cost of living is higher there. Right now, I'm paying $2 for a gallon of milk and $1 for a loaf of bread at Kroger, but that is a different subject all together. LOL Thanks for the info...It is always interesting to see these kinds of things. :drinkup:

SimonCX
03-29-2010, 03:31 PM
I guess it depends where you live, I got a flyer from tg or scotts don't remember which last month and they quoted our property for $40 an app with a 6 app program and I have just over 1k of turf.

realist
03-29-2010, 04:13 PM
if i where to give a quote today on a property that was 43,560 sq ft.of turf, our 4 step program would be approx. 4 x $400=$1600 for the year, give or take a few dollars depending on terrain etc. You don't even want to know what we charge for our full program. we are in line with our competitors (not tru green, scotts, lawn doctor). we would be losing money for the prices people are charging in other parts of the country. OVERHEAD, insurance, mortgage, truck payments, licensing, uniforms, office help, fuel, etc.

Runner
03-29-2010, 04:41 PM
I sure wish we were getting that HERE! And something that sure isn't contributing into a POSITIVE direction of this enTIRE industry is all the fly by nights out there wanting to dabble in the industry - and setting even lower prices, because they don't have all the overhead we do. And what is one of the largest contributors to this onslaught? THIS SITE. There is more influence, and more information going off here than any other 6 sources combined. These guys are coming on here, getting all the free information - taken from years of experience, and advice on what to put down when, and going out with their "Ace Hardware" kit and covering lawns. So many of them NOW have wised up, and the first thing they say is "I'm licensed (or just got licensed), and just getting into the biz",..and they start their speal...Then allll the guys jump into the thread and say "Well, you have to put this down, that down, at this and that rate", and wala - they're in business.
man, I wish all you guys down there and out there the best of luck, and I sure hope that someday, we will see pricing standards that are in line with yours. I hate to say it, but I am just about reaching a point where my fountain is going to shut off. The best idea - even to this day, is one that another forum had, where they had an actual Certified Forum, that was for proven certified applicators only. It was that type of forum that we could discuss matters more openly - without every Joe Lawnmower checking in and saying "Gee, I can make ALOT doing THAT!" And truthfully? They CAN - without all the insurance and licensing costs, facility for proper storage and use costs, as well as all the other expenses into it. :wall:realmad:
Ok,...I'll step down off my soap box, now... Sorry for the rant, guys, but thanks for listening all the same...Thumbs Up

Greenery
03-29-2010, 05:05 PM
Runner, i strongly agree with you about this site being bad for the industry.

I think that the fert and pesticide forum should be locked unless you are granted permission. Maybe submit your license # and have it verified to gain access.

It would require a little more work on lawnsites behalf but i feel it would cut down tremendously on the type of posts that are titled "spoonfeed me a program" i mean wtf.

The sad thing is that someone actually gave the guy detailed instructions.
Posted via Mobile Device

thempikes
03-29-2010, 06:06 PM
I sure wish we were getting that HERE! And something that sure isn't contributing into a POSITIVE direction of this enTIRE industry is all the fly by nights out there wanting to dabble in the industry - and setting even lower prices, because they don't have all the overhead we do. And what is one of the largest contributors to this onslaught? THIS SITE. There is more influence, and more information going off here than any other 6 sources combined. These guys are coming on here, getting all the free information - taken from years of experience, and advice on what to put down when, and going out with their "Ace Hardware" kit and covering lawns. So many of them NOW have wised up, and the first thing they say is "I'm licensed (or just got licensed), and just getting into the biz",..and they start their speal...Then allll the guys jump into the thread and say "Well, you have to put this down, that down, at this and that rate", and wala - they're in business.
man, I wish all you guys down there and out there the best of luck, and I sure hope that someday, we will see pricing standards that are in line with yours. I hate to say it, but I am just about reaching a point where my fountain is going to shut off. The best idea - even to this day, is one that another forum had, where they had an actual Certified Forum, that was for proven certified applicators only. It was that type of forum that we could discuss matters more openly - without every Joe Lawnmower checking in and saying "Gee, I can make ALOT doing THAT!" And truthfully? They CAN - without all the insurance and licensing costs, facility for proper storage and use costs, as well as all the other expenses into it. :wall:realmad:
Ok,...I'll step down off my soap box, now... Sorry for the rant, guys, but thanks for listening all the same...Thumbs Up

I feel the same way. Go ahead and rant.....

Just this morning one of our customers for 18 years called to say "they are going to let the mowing guy do it." When I ask if the "mowing guy" is licensed and insured the answer is yes. :dizzy::dizzy:

One day last week I was in the local lesco/john deere store and a couple of guys were asking basic questions about products and the lesco manager was giving the information to them. The phone rang and someone wanted to know the mix rate for a product. Guess they can't read the labels. They were obviously not licensed or insured. They bought 3 small jugs of pre-m, a spreader and left with just enough information to make them dangerous. So now I'm asking myself should I continue to do business with the lesco/john deere people. I have been doing less and less business with lesco since the john deere buyout.

And I thought this site had a Certified Applicators only forum. I would gladly exchange information with LEGITIMATE businesses but not the fast buck, fly by night creeps.

NattyLawn
03-29-2010, 06:43 PM
I feel the same way. Go ahead and rant.....

Just this morning one of our customers for 18 years called to say "they are going to let the mowing guy do it." When I ask if the "mowing guy" is licensed and insured the answer is yes. :dizzy::dizzy:

And I thought this site had a Certified Applicators only forum. I would gladly exchange information with LEGITIMATE businesses but not the fast buck, fly by night creeps.

I get a few of the "we want all of our services on one bill" or the classic let the mowing guy do it every year. Every time I ride by I give the homeowner a wave and laugh to myself when there lawns look like crap. In 2-3 years most of them come back anyway.

As far as as info, I agree with you. Go to the main page and this is what you see right now: Currently Active Users: 4264 (685 members and 3579 guests). So what's that, 6 guests to one active user?

SeedPro
03-29-2010, 07:46 PM
I feel the same way. Go ahead and rant.....

Just this morning one of our customers for 18 years called to say "they are going to let the mowing guy do it." When I ask if the "mowing guy" is licensed and insured the answer is yes. :dizzy::dizzy:

One day last week I was in the local lesco/john deere store and a couple of guys were asking basic questions about products and the lesco manager was giving the information to them. The phone rang and someone wanted to know the mix rate for a product. Guess they can't read the labels. They were obviously not licensed or insured. They bought 3 small jugs of pre-m, a spreader and left with just enough information to make them dangerous. So now I'm asking myself should I continue to do business with the lesco/john deere people. I have been doing less and less business with lesco since the john deere buyout.

And I thought this site had a Certified Applicators only forum. I would gladly exchange information with LEGITIMATE businesses but not the fast buck, fly by night creeps.

I agree except for blaming JDL. They aren't breaking any laws and are in business to sell items.

lawnlandscape
03-29-2010, 10:57 PM
I sure wish we were getting that HERE! And something that sure isn't contributing into a POSITIVE direction of this enTIRE industry is all the fly by nights out there wanting to dabble in the industry - and setting even lower prices, because they don't have all the overhead we do. And what is one of the largest contributors to this onslaught? THIS SITE. There is more influence, and more information going off here than any other 6 sources combined. These guys are coming on here, getting all the free information - taken from years of experience, and advice on what to put down when, and going out with their "Ace Hardware" kit and covering lawns. So many of them NOW have wised up, and the first thing they say is "I'm licensed (or just got licensed), and just getting into the biz",..and they start their speal...Then allll the guys jump into the thread and say "Well, you have to put this down, that down, at this and that rate", and wala - they're in business.
man, I wish all you guys down there and out there the best of luck, and I sure hope that someday, we will see pricing standards that are in line with yours. I hate to say it, but I am just about reaching a point where my fountain is going to shut off. The best idea - even to this day, is one that another forum had, where they had an actual Certified Forum, that was for proven certified applicators only. It was that type of forum that we could discuss matters more openly - without every Joe Lawnmower checking in and saying "Gee, I can make ALOT doing THAT!" And truthfully? They CAN - without all the insurance and licensing costs, facility for proper storage and use costs, as well as all the other expenses into it. :wall:realmad:
Ok,...I'll step down off my soap box, now... Sorry for the rant, guys, but thanks for listening all the same...Thumbs Up

A Certified Forum would be very nice! I remember seeing that somewhere!

OKIE LAWNS
03-30-2010, 11:06 AM
You are correct Ron, and apologize to the OP for giving in to the hijacking.

Now for my area and what seems to be an average around the country, your 5-7 k pricing at $40 seems low. Our minimum stop is $45 for a basic program.

Your pricing per k for 10k + is probably competetive IF your base pricing is on par, otherwise it will be low

ie. if you are at $40 for 7k then 20 k would be $118 no? that would be low in my opinion.

My idea of a fair price is when you close about 50% of you bids. Close less than 40% your high, close more than 65% you are low.

Good luck

Ignore Seed Pro, the rest of us are beginning to........

i like that idea..

6 dollars per 1,ooo sqft x 43,560= 261.36 dont understand the argument

for 1acre i have been doing about $230

but 30k and under 1,000 sq ft = $6.00

jkoehler
03-30-2010, 02:00 PM
I want to thank everyone for their feedback. I don’t really plan on doing any acre lawns. I am a one man small buss. And just do residential lawns. I do cut prices as the sq ft. get larger but, not too much. I do a five step program and thinking on adding 2 more…..just wanted to make sure I was in the right pricing range. Thanks again guys.

Precision Lawns

gunsnroses
03-30-2010, 02:52 PM
Runner, i strongly agree with you about this site being bad for the industry.

I think that the fert and pesticide forum should be locked unless you are granted permission. Maybe submit your license # and have it verified to gain access.

It would require a little more work on lawnsites behalf but i feel it would cut down tremendously on the type of posts that are titled "spoonfeed me a program" i mean wtf.

The sad thing is that someone actually gave the guy detailed instructions.
Posted via Mobile Device


You guys are correct 100%

I bet Lesco(and all the brands they sell) have some people in Washington passing out big money to keep the sales flowing, legal sales or not. For us people with a license, it may be best to exchange PMs. With luck, these people will be pouring cement or building cars....whatever their skills are...pretty soon. I am here to learn a thing or two, help with plant id etc.....but chemicals are what can make one stand out among others. Guys are here daily asking for your program numbers and information that has taken some years to nail down. The new guys should learn the hard way like the rest of us and read labels...research etc, not ask one question on lawnsite and boom good answers...for all to see. Careful out there with your answers. Pm an answer may be the best solution. You could be giving answers on an open and public forum to your competitor, then it is not so funny.

LawnoftheMonth
03-30-2010, 08:33 PM
I think that the fert and pesticide forum should be locked unless you are granted permission. Maybe submit your license # and have it verified to gain access.
Posted via Mobile Device


I agree with this.

Boomer Sooner
04-04-2010, 02:16 PM
That is the biggest problem in Lawncare today, (prices)why do plumbers get time and half on weekends ?trip charges and service calls are not free, I get a lot of calls from TGCL customers and my bid is always $10.00- $15.00 bucks higher and they say your waayy too high, the ave consumer thinks that all services all the same, so the price should be the same,but as everone knows not all programs are the same, most guys only make one trip over the lawn, so they are just ferting or just spraying,when your program covers pre-emergent,fert, broadleaf,grassy weed control,nutsedge, surface insect control, fescue control (berm lawn ), it is a much better value for the cust and the lawn if they were getting all of this for the extra $10.00 or $15.00
So I always try to tell them, what are you getting right now for the cheaper price, ( a lawn full of weeds )but they cant get over the price gap, and I think the mower guys contribute to this problem

JFF
04-04-2010, 02:53 PM
I do quite a bit of lurking here, but don't post much because of all the abuse that happens here when someone expresses an opinion. If I want to get called names, I will go to a political board. :)

I am licensed for weed control by my state plant board. I worked for another company for 7 years getting an education before I went into business for myself. I'll be happy to provide my license # to anyone who wants it via PM. I also do maintenance and some small installations. I am all for verifying we are licensed. I also think that on some level, it benefits us all to share info, since people who only have some limited idea what they are doing will eventually result in the government putting us all out of business. Ability to read a label is one thing, real world experience is another. The materials I use are based on discussions between myself and friends who are also in the business. Once upon a time, we all worked for the same LCO. And yes, we discuss rates and prices.

I charge $35/minimum for up to 3000 square feet, then charge $10 per 1000 from that point on. $105 for 10,000 square feet, in other words. I have also been known to charge a headache fee for a miserable slope. Not all 10,000 square foot yards are created equal. Sometimes I will reduce prices per app for my maintenance customers, but customers who only use me for weed control pay full price.

That said, I don't have many customers above 15,000 square feet.

I find that customers who are new to weed control are sometimes shocked by my prices, but customers who are getting rid of another company due to poor performance are not.

I wish this place was a bit less confrontational. It's a pretty good resource. Wading through pages of flaming to get to the information can be frustrating.

T.E.
04-04-2010, 04:20 PM
That is the biggest problem in Lawncare today, (prices)why do plumbers get time and half on weekends ?trip charges and service calls are not free,

I'd say because the things you mentioned effect quality of life, but lawn care doesn't. Just my .02 :waving: