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View Full Version : where are your price breaks?


grassmasterswilson
03-26-2010, 11:01 PM
Generally I charge a $50 min or 5-6 per 1000 which ever is greater. All of my work is residential. Just curious where your price breaks were? 1 - 10k $6 per 1000, 10k - 20k $5 per 1000 2, 20k + $4 per 1000

Think Green
03-27-2010, 01:54 PM
Oh Boy!!
As I have read on here Wilson, the feud's will begin.
My breaking point is real close you your's above.

SeedPro
03-27-2010, 04:06 PM
Oh Boy!!
As I have read on here Wilson, the feud's will begin.
My breaking point is real close you your's above.

Mine too.

We should live in New Jersey, Houston or Oklahomo. Guys here claim they get 400 to treat an acre sized lawn.

rcreech
03-27-2010, 05:40 PM
We are somewhat the same on smaller lawns.

I don't truely price break until they get over an acre!

After an acre I will start to drop my price/k.

If they are over 5 acre I will drop it a little more...but it also depends on if it is an open area or lots of obstacles.

Runner
03-27-2010, 11:10 PM
That's where I am at...It takes an acre for the first break.

NattyLawn
03-28-2010, 12:21 AM
30k for me, but I use more fert than you guys.

greendoctor
03-28-2010, 03:44 AM
Over an acre and, this is a condition of the price break, I am not doing that acre on foot. Has to be from my truck mount boom.

rcreech
03-28-2010, 12:06 PM
30k for me, but I use more fert than you guys.

Oh....I forgot that you know how much fertilizer we all used! :laugh:

I guess you know what I have in my checking account also? :)

Runner
03-28-2010, 12:25 PM
Yes,...please DO explain the more usage than us. Are you at around 3000 accounts or something, or did I read this wrong? :walking:

MnLefty
03-28-2010, 04:17 PM
Can't speak for Natty, but I interpreted his comments because of his name that using organic/bridge products usually means a lower analysis fert, therefore needing more lbs/1000 to get to desired rates??

If I used 18-0-9 and you used 30-0-10 and we both applied 1lb N/1000 I would have used "more" fert than you... I have a hunch that's all that Natty was saying.

rcreech
03-28-2010, 04:31 PM
Can't speak for Natty, but I interpreted his comments because of his name that using organic/bridge products usually means a lower analysis fert, therefore needing more lbs/1000 to get to desired rates??

If I used 18-0-9 and you used 30-0-10 and we both applied 1lb N/1000 I would have used "more" fert than you... I have a hunch that's all that Natty was saying.

Still makes no sense!

Its all relative!

SeedPro
03-28-2010, 05:15 PM
If you have a Gnatty lawn I suggest a surface insect control. Not fert.

:cool2:

Runner
03-28-2010, 07:08 PM
Bifenthrin? :drinkup:

tlg
03-29-2010, 12:05 AM
No price breaks here. Do bigger lawns cost less to treat per K than say a 5K lawn???? If anything I markup the big lawns. This business is all about production if you want to make money. Why make less money on a big lawn just because it's big. I once knew a guy from Orkin Lawn Care who always bid the big commercial lawns low because he said "the small residential lawns would make up for the reduced revenue on the big lawns. " Huh???? Last time I time I checked Orkin was out of the lawn business.

ted putnam
03-29-2010, 03:10 AM
No price breaks here. Do bigger lawns cost less to treat per K than say a 5K lawn???? If anything I markup the big lawns. This business is all about production if you want to make money. Why make less money on a big lawn just because it's big. I once knew a guy from Orkin Lawn Care who always bid the big commercial lawns low because he said "the small residential lawns would make up for the reduced revenue on the big lawns. " Huh???? Last time I time I checked Orkin was out of the lawn business.

I'm with you there...I don't raise the price because it's bigger, but I rarely reduce it. I have a certain dollar amount I try to get out of every tank full of mix or 50lb bag of fert. It doesn't matter if I do 30 lawns or 3 lawns to reach that dollar amount. I've heard the "less drive time" reason but I'm sorry, I just don't buy it. My materials cost me the same whether I'm applying them to a 3000 or a 30,000 sq ft lawn. Of course, there is more profit in a smaller lawn because I have a minimum price. However, there's no way I'm going to make less money on a larger lawn that usually requires more work simply because I have to move the truck less. Why should I work harder and make less money???:hammerhead:

grenskpr
03-29-2010, 05:41 AM
My feelings exactly Ted, My tank doesn't know how big or small a lawn is, cause it's spraying 2 gal/1000 regardless and products cost x per 1000. No breaks here.

John

rcreech
03-29-2010, 08:47 AM
I disagree....as there is less driving and one can be much more effecient on larger lawns.

If I charged the same for large lawns as small I wouldn't have any business and plus the competition wouldn't let me do it anyway.

If I can do larger lawns...I can do upwards of 3 acres/hour. That is close to $400 gross an hour. Now granted my costs are going to be higher/hour but I guarantee I will net out ahead of anybody doing small lawns.

When it comes to larger lawns it comes down to volume more or less!

Heck...many of my lawns....it takes me longer to do a 15k then an acre!

Plus I can cover much more sq footage in a day so that makes me even more effecient! Also the more large lawns you do the bigger the price break due to buying volume.

It may not work for others...but I have found that this system works great for us. And our average is 31k so we must be doing something right on the bigger ones!

grassmasterswilson
03-29-2010, 09:06 AM
thanks for the input guys.

it's more about time and costs in some aspects. with 10 10k lawns you might be finished by lunch where as 20 5k lawns might take you 3/4 or a whole day. either way your chemical/machine costs would be the same.

rcreech
03-29-2010, 09:55 AM
thanks for the input guys.

it's more about time and costs in some aspects. with 10 10k lawns you might be finished by lunch where as 20 5k lawns might take you 3/4 or a whole day. either way your chemical/machine costs would be the same.

Exactly....

A guy with small lawns may have 15 - 5,000 sq ft lawns done by lunch but I will have 10 - 1 acre lawns done by lunch!

That to me allows one to work for less margin/k on larger lawns! Less drive time and down time and the wheels on the ride on are moving a lot more!

I think most business's run like this!

If you get carpet in one room vs the whole house...see if they cut you a minor break! I think they will!

NattyLawn
03-29-2010, 06:54 PM
Oh....I forgot that you know how much fertilizer we all used! :laugh:

I guess you know what I have in my checking account also? :)

Rod's right, my comment made no sense. I had a few Dogfish Head 120min IPA's on Saturday. Those things are no joke (20% alcohol).

Anyway, I'm in the same boat as Rod. We do give price breaks on the larger lawns for the reasons he mentioned. I did a 55k lawn in 40 minutes today. It might take me an hour to do three 5k lawns that might have 10 minutes of travel, time to write up the bill, time to talk to Mrs Jones and time to load fert, blow off walks, etc. I made more net profit on the larger lawn than the other 3 combined.

phasthound
03-29-2010, 07:19 PM
Rod's right, my comment made no sense. I had a few Dogfish Head 120min IPA's on Saturday. Those things are no joke (20% alcohol).

Anyway, I'm in the same boat as Rod. We do give price breaks on the larger lawns for the reasons he mentioned. I did a 55k lawn in 40 minutes today. It might take me an hour to do three 5k lawns that might have 10 minutes of travel, time to write up the bill, time to talk to Mrs Jones and time to load fert, blow off walks, etc. I made more net profit on the larger lawn than the other 3 combined.

Hmmm, I'll have to try that ale. I like Flying Fish Belgian Dubbel.

But you're right, time is money and the price break goes to the larger lawns because of that.

SeedPro
03-29-2010, 07:40 PM
Hmmm, I'll have to try that ale. I like Flying Fish Belgian Dubbel.

But you're right, time is money and the price break goes to the larger lawns because of that.

Hey Hippie.

We finally agree on something.

:drinkup:

tlg
03-29-2010, 09:51 PM
I disagree....as there is less driving and one can be much more effecient on larger lawns.

If I charged the same for large lawns as small I wouldn't have any business and plus the competition wouldn't let me do it anyway.

If I can do larger lawns...I can do upwards of 3 acres/hour. That is close to $400 gross an hour. Now granted my costs are going to be higher/hour but I guarantee I will net out ahead of anybody doing small lawns.

When it comes to larger lawns it comes down to volume more or less!

Heck...many of my lawns....it takes me longer to do a 15k then an acre!

Plus I can cover much more sq footage in a day so that makes me even more effecient! Also the more large lawns you do the bigger the price break due to buying volume.

It may not work for others...but I have found that this system works great for us. And our average is 31k so we must be doing something right on the bigger ones!

A ride-on spreader - sprayer changes the dynamics a bit. I was referring to the old fashioned way of treated lawns ...... you know walking and pulling a hose or pushing a spreader. Time is money as they say. If you can do it like you say..... I can see your point. However, if I can walk and treat 1000 sq ft per minute I should be able to treat an acre in about 43 minutes. Let's say I get 230 bucks to do it. Not bad. If I walk and treat 10 5k lawns it should take me 50 minutes to treat that area. Let's assume all 10 lawns are within a one square mile area allowing for the drive time of 5 minutes per lawn to treat all 10 lawns. Lets say I get 40 bucks for a 5k lawn. That's 400 bucks for less than 2 hours work. Not bad at all.

rcreech
03-29-2010, 11:01 PM
A ride-on spreader - sprayer changes the dynamics a bit. I was referring to the old fashioned way of treated lawns ...... you know walking and pulling a hose or pushing a spreader. Time is money as they say. If you can do it like you say..... I can see your point. However, if I can walk and treat 1000 sq ft per minute I should be able to treat an acre in about 43 minutes. Let's say I get 230 bucks to do it. Not bad. If I walk and treat 10 5k lawns it should take me 50 minutes to treat that area. Let's assume all 10 lawns are within a one square mile area allowing for the drive time of 5 minutes per lawn to treat all 10 lawns. Lets say I get 40 bucks for a 5k lawn. That's 400 bucks for less than 2 hours work. Not bad at all.

I think if one is doing lawns by hand...there may not be a price break...BUT you have to remember that if you are bidding beside someone that is running a ride on you will be priced out!

Running a ride on just makes one more effecient and I also think that the application is going to be more accurate over a long day, especially on larger lawns.

JMO!

ted putnam
03-30-2010, 02:08 AM
A ride-on spreader - sprayer changes the dynamics a bit. I was referring to the old fashioned way of treated lawns ...... you know walking and pulling a hose or pushing a spreader. Time is money as they say. If you can do it like you say..... I can see your point. However, if I can walk and treat 1000 sq ft per minute I should be able to treat an acre in about 43 minutes. Let's say I get 230 bucks to do it. Not bad. If I walk and treat 10 5k lawns it should take me 50 minutes to treat that area. Let's assume all 10 lawns are within a one square mile area allowing for the drive time of 5 minutes per lawn to treat all 10 lawns. Lets say I get 40 bucks for a 5k lawn. That's 400 bucks for less than 2 hours work. Not bad at all.

All Good points. I still drag the hose for my initial pre-emergence treatments in the Spring as well as my fFall pre-emergence.(I have my own reasons for this) Lets say I can treat 150k at 2gpm with a 300gal tank. At $230/acre(which would be high in this area,$200/acre would be more realistic)I could spray approx 3 acres per tank full. At your figures I could do 30 of those 5k lawns at $40 each. $690 for 3-1 acre lawns(best case scenario) or $1200 for 30-5k lawns. Of course my routes don't allow for the $1200 but I do average $800-$850. This is why I do not give price breaks readily but I still have to remain competitive. At some point I have to say....they can have it. I'm very busy and I don't need busy work. I'm in business to profit...as much as possible. While ride-ons do change dynamics, they are not the end all-be all, at least not in this area. I use them for 4 of my 6 rounds and they make life much easier during the more difficult times of the year(allowing us to finish early most days and even take a Friday off every once in awhile during the warmer months), but even at that, I still have a certain $$$ figure I'd like to see out of each bag/ton of dry material. This keeps my profits high and my man hours low thereby maximizing my returns...Works for me anyway...

humble1
03-30-2010, 09:29 AM
over 44k i drop a little

phasthound
03-30-2010, 10:51 AM
Ted Putnam, check your PM

tlg
03-30-2010, 10:52 PM
I think if one is doing lawns by hand...there may not be a price break...BUT you have to remember that if you are bidding beside someone that is running a ride on you will be priced out!

Running a ride on just makes one more effecient and I also think that the application is going to be more accurate over a long day, especially on larger lawns.

JMO!

I agree. If our customers lawns averaged the 31K yours do I would be using a ride on all day every day. I'm for anything that can make our job easier and more efficient. There is something to be said about the free exercise by walking though. :walking:

tlg
03-30-2010, 11:06 PM
All Good points. I still drag the hose for my initial pre-emergence treatments in the Spring as well as my fFall pre-emergence.(I have my own reasons for this) Lets say I can treat 150k at 2gpm with a 300gal tank. At $230/acre(which would be high in this area,$200/acre would be more realistic)I could spray approx 3 acres per tank full. At your figures I could do 30 of those 5k lawns at $40 each. $690 for 3-1 acre lawns(best case scenario) or $1200 for 30-5k lawns. Of course my routes don't allow for the $1200 but I do average $800-$850. This is why I do not give price breaks readily but I still have to remain competitive. At some point I have to say....they can have it. I'm very busy and I don't need busy work. I'm in business to profit...as much as possible. While ride-ons do change dynamics, they are not the end all-be all, at least not in this area. I use them for 4 of my 6 rounds and they make life much easier during the more difficult times of the year(allowing us to finish early most days and even take a Friday off every once in awhile during the warmer months), but even at that, I still have a certain $$$ figure I'd like to see out of each bag/ton of dry material. This keeps my profits high and my man hours low thereby maximizing my returns...Works for me anyway...

A ride-on is just another tool in our tool box. Anything that can increase our profit margin is a good thing. Being as efficient as possible sure helps the bottom line. We still pull a hose and push a spreader on the majority of our work though. I'm an old dog.

ted putnam
03-31-2010, 01:56 AM
A ride-on is just another tool in our tool box. Anything that can increase our profit margin is a good thing. Being as efficient as possible sure helps the bottom line. We still pull a hose and push a spreader on the majority of our work though. I'm an old dog.

:laugh: I'm an old dog too. I bought a PG Ultra in 2004 that I'm still using. I bought a Z last year and added it to the "tool box". I discovered in 2004 that ride-ons were the way to go for my dry apps, especially when we break 100F with 90% humidity. Once the sales season slows and we settle in to our routes we can get an extremely good day done by 2:30 -3:00 and not be worn out. When I first got that PG, I thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread:laugh: I still carry a 16 yr old Lesco spreader around with me and use it on the smaller ones occasionally...less now than a few years ago:laugh:

rcreech
03-31-2010, 10:08 AM
I agree. If our customers lawns averaged the 31K yours do I would be using a ride on all day every day. I'm for anything that can make our job easier and more efficient. There is something to be said about the free exercise by walking though. :walking:

I can honestly say that out of all the lawns we take care of...there are only 2 that we don't ride on and we could use the PG on them...but just feel it doesn't justify it!

We have 2 that we backpack spray and spread with a scatter box. They are both around 2-3K.

Other then that we ride everything (which is anywhere from 7k to 22 acres)!