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View Full Version : New lawn install on a budget


GWhunter
03-27-2010, 12:52 PM
I've posted a little in the irrigation section about my project. It seems that the costs have caught up with me on this project and I need to rain them in.
So I'd like comments on my plan and my best chances for sucess. I've got an area about 12500 sqft. I've had my soil tested and added the proper amendments(1200lbs of lime) mixed in the top 6" of soil with my harley rake. I've removed as many rocks as humanly possible here in eastern CT. I just brought in 75yds of premium topsoil compost and would like to spread it 2-3" then rake into the existing soil. I them planned to seed with 50% perenial rye and 25% kbb 25% fescue. I really wanted to hydro seed and irrigate but I just can't swing it. I also need to add a good starter fert and would like to know when I should lay the seed. Also I was planning on getting my grade set then a final harley raking. I then was going to roll it with 100lbs roller. I then was going to use a broadcast spreader to throw the seed. What is my best option after that. I plan on using several tower sprinlers on timers to keep the moisture correct. Now I know I'd get the best results with hydro or sod and sprinklers but I just can't swing it. I plan on overseeding this fall and again next spring. I also want to add a crab grass control (tupersan) is this possible without hydro seeding?

Thanks
Matt:confused:

hotshot4819
03-27-2010, 02:17 PM
first of all...
this is a typical sob story for me... people spending thousands of dollars of loam and compost, and then skimping on the seeding...

Honestly, you could get that hydroseeding for 750 bucks.

your going to spend half of that on seed, and risk the chance of wash out,:nono:

GWhunter
03-27-2010, 03:10 PM
Sob story huh, well that's half the price of the cheapest hydro seeding quote I've gotten. Thanks for the super constructive reply.

Matt

BlackDog3
03-27-2010, 03:15 PM
I know its a decent size area but have you ever considered sod?

Chris

hotshot4819
03-27-2010, 05:38 PM
I told you i would go down there! you have a cash ready for me. and ill be there . 900 ... SIMPLE AS THAT!!
ill even throw in an extra bag of fert for ya to spread a few week after..

And I know you may doubt the price...
But that will include, WOOD mulch for water retension and erosion control. Lime. Fertilizer, Tack, A Park and Athletic Seed mixture at 8lbs per 1000.

rcreech
03-27-2010, 05:45 PM
That small of a lawn...just broadcast it and roll it in. Strawing would be optional.

You should be able to get the seed for about $100 and you would have about $30 in straw and $12 in starter.

I wouldn't personally seed it that way...but if you are on a budget it should work for ya!

GWhunter
03-27-2010, 06:32 PM
I'm going to use a the stated grass mix. I called for pricing this morning. The seed is going to run me $250. The cost of the topsoil is the real killer for me. It just cost me over $1700 for the dirt alone.

Matt

rcreech
03-28-2010, 12:18 PM
I'm going to use a the stated grass mix. I called for pricing this morning. The seed is going to run me $250. The cost of the topsoil is the real killer for me. It just cost me over $1700 for the dirt alone.

Matt

You are getting screwed on the seed!
For that amount of area that sounds about right on the topsoil.

I am paying $.76 right now for my TTTF/PR mix and I can get a 50/50 PR/KB for $1.06 right now.

Better shop around as you should be able to buy your seed for under $100.

JB1
03-28-2010, 12:40 PM
I'm going to use a the stated grass mix. I called for pricing this morning. The seed is going to run me $250. The cost of the topsoil is the real killer for me. It just cost me over $1700 for the dirt alone.

Matt



was vaseline included in the price.

SeedPro
03-28-2010, 12:41 PM
first of all...
this is a typical sob story for me... people spending thousands of dollars of loam and compost, and then skimping on the seeding...

Honestly, you could get that hydroseeding for 750 bucks.

your going to spend half of that on seed, and risk the chance of wash out,:nono:

he will spend 375 dollars to seed 12,500 sq ft? On what planet. At most he will spend 75 dollars.


Reading down I see him say 250. O.P. you can get a 50 pound bag of seed for 100 dollars at JDL. Maybe a tad more for a one time purchaser.

GWhunter
03-28-2010, 12:54 PM
The seed store is recommending 300lbs of seed. I'm going to make a few more calls. The kbb is premium tuff grade. The chewings fescue an perenial rye are improved variety.

Matt

JB1
03-28-2010, 01:17 PM
was vaseline included in the price.


300 pounds, reread the quote above.

hotshot4819
03-28-2010, 08:39 PM
he will spend 375 dollars to seed 12,500 sq ft? On what planet. At most he will spend 75 dollars.


Reading down I see him say 250. O.P. you can get a 50 pound bag of seed for 100 dollars at JDL. Maybe a tad more for a one time purchaser.

I was saying, he would spend that much on seed, with his plans.
Seeding of first application, Second seeding in fall and a third seeding in spring.. that also was assuming he purchased fert for each application...

hotshot4819
03-28-2010, 08:40 PM
Ya, 300lbs is INSANE. people think that going that heavy is better...
its not tho.. its makes the new seedling compete fir survival, and makes a hige mess...

rcreech
03-28-2010, 09:46 PM
If I was using TTTF I would only be going 9#/k for a total of 108#.

You should be able to get by with even less!

You need to get recommendations from people that know what they are doing and not your "seed guy".

RigglePLC
03-28-2010, 10:13 PM
Matt,
Tupersan for crabgrass when seeding is about twice the cost of standard crabgrass control--and lasts half as long. (Add $120.) For seed--usual rate is about 4 pounds per thousand--you need about 50 pounds. Look for Lesco Athletic Blend, at John Deere landscapes. Omit the fine fescue (inexpensive filler). Add plenty of water, and feed it starter fert, followed by heavy fert for first 6 months. Let us know how it works out--don't forget the pictures.

hotshot4819
03-28-2010, 10:16 PM
Im not a huge Fan of the whole Tuperspan idea either..
From what i have read, it can kill a percentage of the new seed...

I personally think going with 8lbs per 1k of seed, with a very heavy feeding of fert at the proper times, will help establish and smother out the weeds.

Yes, i also think the seed guy is pushing his product to a customer willing to listen....

rcreech
03-28-2010, 10:56 PM
I do a lot of seeding and this is what I do!

Seed and use starter
Hit with starter again in 4 weeks
Once grass has been mowed a couple times hit with a pre/fert and broadleaf.

This is a cheap way to go and you will get very good results!

First year will be a little challenge but if you keep the water on it if needed you will be fine.

Year 2 it will look like a gold course!

hotshot4819
03-28-2010, 11:01 PM
For someone that does so much seeding , your explanation seems to be lacking alot of detail...
What does someone like your consider ALOT of seeding. How many acres per year...

rcreech
03-29-2010, 08:55 AM
For someone that does so much seeding , your explanation seems to be lacking alot of detail...
What does someone like your consider ALOT of seeding. How many acres per year...

:laugh:

Between 25-30+ acres/year. Click on my name and go to my home page and you can see my equipment!

What kind of detail are you looking for! I have given you all the info you need! If you want more "detail" I can cover you up with it.

If you are trying to go cheap...you won't be able to afford my details! :)

I run a 48" Landpride slice seeder (which is my picture above hooked to the JD) and I also have a 72" Primary seeder.

hotshot4819
03-29-2010, 09:14 AM
oh,,, ok... thats a decent amount...

We did roughly 120 acres last year. and thats less then the years before, but housing developments was lacking for sure..

*trucewhiteflag**trucewhiteflag*

rcreech
03-29-2010, 10:00 AM
oh,,, ok... thats a decent amount...

We did roughly 120 acres last year. and thats less then the years before, but housing developments was lacking for sure..

*trucewhiteflag**trucewhiteflag*



Our seeding has been down the last 2 years also for the same reason!

Seeding is only about 20% of my overall business (hope it is more in the future).

I think this year is going to be better though as I already have a lot on the books...and I have hooked up with a pretty large builder and they are actually pretty busy!

Darryl G
03-29-2010, 10:27 AM
I agree that 300 lbs of seed is insane..thats 24 pounds per thousand sq feet. It would probably come in great at first and then all die...just too many plants.

And you said you were going to roll and then seed, reverse that order...sorry no time to read all the posts so maybe this has been covered.

Turboguy
03-29-2010, 02:18 PM
I have to agree that this looks like a better year for seeding. I alreay have about 17 acres booked to seed for this year and it hasn't even started. So far not a single new house to seed however.

I will also agree that 300 pounds of seed it way too much. 100 would do it and I think it would be a mistake to go over 150 pounds. There would just be too much competition.

Since all I do is seeding let me bring up a point about his prep and some of you who do a prep work as well can let me know if my thinking is wrong. He says he is going to spread 2-3" of topsoil and then rake it into the existing soil. My thoughts are he would be better off skipping the raking it in part. To me he would be basically diluting the good soil with the bad soil underneath. Just my two cents worth.

Darryl G
03-29-2010, 02:47 PM
Yah, doesn't seem to make sense to mix it in but not sure why he went and ammended the existing soil just to cover it up either...usually I'd either ammend the existing or bring in new, not both. And has anyone mentioned that 50% rye is kinda heavy...I'm usually in the 10 to 30% range on rye.

betmr
03-30-2010, 03:57 PM
Am I right, that 8 Lb. of seed per 1000 on 12,500 Sq. Ft. should take 100 Lb. of seed ? So where I buy, that equals $68.50 per 50 Lb. "Ryegrass Plus" (Grand-Prix) $205.50. Is that right ? 8 to 10 Lb. per K recommended, so even at high rate, it's only 125 Lb.'s.

hotshot4819
03-30-2010, 08:38 PM
betmr..
Maybe i missed english class. but are you asking a questiong or making a statement....
im lost..

betmr
03-31-2010, 09:03 AM
betmr..
Maybe i missed english class. but are you asking a questiong or making a statement....
im lost..

Actually both, if my calculations are right, which is what I'm Checking. And if I'm right, then that's the amount of seed, and approximate price it should be.

I would also like to point out, that this is not the best time of year to sow Fescue or Blue Grass, which is why in the spring we use 70% Rye (3 types) & 30% Blue (2 types) The long germination & maturity of Fescue and Blue makes them not do so well when sown in the spring. You will have immature plants to be stressed by the coming heat and infrequent rains of Summer. They are best sown late summer/early fall, in my opinion.

rcreech
03-31-2010, 10:22 AM
I would also like to point out, that this is not the best time of year to sow Fescue or Blue Grass, which is why in the spring we use 70% Rye (3 types) & 30% Blue (2 types) The long germination & maturity of Fescue and Blue makes them not do so well when sown in the spring. You will have immature plants to be stressed by the coming heat and infrequent rains of Summer. They are best sown late summer/early fall, in my opinion.


I totally disagree!

I would never plant the "wrong turf types" just because of germination length.

When you are installing a lawn it is for the long term....not short term.

I hate PR...and do everything I can to keep it to a min of my mix.

We have been seeding for 5 years...but I usually do about 50% of my seeding in the spring and have very little issues!

Any new grass doesn't do well if it goes through a dry summer...and TTTF isn't any worse then any other turf type.

Darryl G
03-31-2010, 10:41 AM
What about intermdiate rye? I see more and more mixes are using it. It comes in fast but dies out pretty quickly, letting the other grasses take over. The only thing I don't like is when it does start to die off, customers get concerned, not understanding that's what it's supposed to do. I think it's more of something used for overseeding to get spring green on golf courses and such, but do any of you use intermediate rye in your mixes for turf establishment?

betmr
03-31-2010, 11:50 AM
I don't really like PR either, But for us it's the best to get lawns going and fill in open areas in order to crowd out weeds, in spring. Then we over-seed at the right time (Early Fall) with KB. Rye makes a good "Nurse" grass. We strive for KB in the long run, but get better spring results with higher Rye blends. And the endophites in the rye, help a bit with bugs and disease.

GWhunter
03-31-2010, 09:25 PM
That's my understanding of the PR's function. I plan on overseeding with kbb an fescu get in the fall and again next spring. I hope to have and agreement to get my lawn hydro'd. I'll be sure to get some pics as the project progresses. This recent flood has been a minor set back but I put up slit fences and hay to protect my topsoil so I'm ok.

Matt

RigglePLC
04-01-2010, 03:51 PM
I don't care for intermediate rye. It looks too much like annual rye. And it does not die off quickly enough for me. Why not use a top quality perennial rye--it comes up almost as quick. Combine with 80 percent bluegrass.