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View Full Version : New Paver job, what do you think so far?


AzLawnMan
03-28-2010, 03:57 PM
I am installing these in my back yard, I have used pavers before just not the ones that go around the kool-decking. I'm not sure what I think about it yet, I guess I will have to see what it looks like when Im done. I wanna hurry and get this done by monday so I can start to show and sell it to my customers. What do you guys think. I will post pics as soon as Im done.

Joel B.
03-28-2010, 04:06 PM
Looks nice, what do you do with all the gaps between the blocks around the pool, do they get filled in later?

AzLawnMan
03-28-2010, 04:13 PM
Because the pavers are a blend of browns, I am worried that when I go to put the grout between them I am gonna stain the pavers. So I am gonna seal them first, then Im gonna fill them half-way with silica sand and then grout them. I am still thinking about that process. I have never used those before so Im not sure what I will do yet.

mowerbrad
03-28-2010, 04:30 PM
I really wish I was talented enough and had the knowledge to do paver jobs like this.

The job looks like its going pretty well, I'm excited to see it finished.

Runner
03-28-2010, 04:32 PM
Looks great, man!!!

zturncutter
03-28-2010, 05:25 PM
Are you using Polymeric sand in the joints in the field ?

Pristine PM
03-28-2010, 05:39 PM
That's a lot of little cuts, was it the only way it made sense.

topsites
03-28-2010, 05:40 PM
I think it ain't got squat to do with Commercial & Residential Lawn Mowing, that's what I think.

AzLawnMan
03-28-2010, 07:06 PM
I am using silica sand for the field joints as well. I have done kool-decks in the past and we have used this pattern and it was easy. I think with these kool-deck pavers maybe another pattern might have worked. I extended my current patio and added another in the pool area. So you can see the only place where the pattern may differ is around the pool itself. If I run the same pattern around the pool, I will be 2 inches to short around the edges, thats where I am trying to figure out whats the best move. And yes there are lots of wierd cuts but it isnt anything that we havent done before.

meets1
03-28-2010, 07:29 PM
Looks good. Cool back yard with the pool, fence for the kids and still green grass. How big is your back yard?

Lugnut
03-28-2010, 07:39 PM
Looks good...thats alot of grouting to do though. I've never seen that style paver around here, we usually just use bull nose pavers set in cement to border pools

AzLawnMan
03-28-2010, 08:45 PM
Looks good...thats alot of grouting to do though. I've never seen that style paver around here, we usually just use bull nose pavers set in cement to border pools

I used to do the same thing until they came out with these. I am going monday to talk the people who make these and Im gonna ask them for future jobs if they can make the length of these pavers a little shorter. If they were shorter there wouldnt be that big of a joint between them. But because they are longer and the pool has so many round angles, the joints are pretty big on the turns. My back yard is not very big at all, with 2 kids you have to make sure you use every sqft!

yardatwork
03-28-2010, 08:50 PM
I think it looks good. However, stagger the blocks more to eliminate all the straight/square line look. You'll do a little more cutting this way, but it's more eye appealing.

05 superduty
03-28-2010, 10:42 PM
WTF???? Are you putting the pavers right over the cement and that small stone in that bed? I wouldv'e taken that concrete out first if i were you and compacted quarry process base or c-33 under it before laying those brick. I guess there's nothing wrong with that but i've never heard of doing that before,and we specialize in pool decking and coping. Thats what they teach us at the icpi certification classes every year.:itflag:

AzLawnMan
03-29-2010, 12:22 AM
WTF???? Are you putting the pavers right over the cement and that small stone in that bed? I wouldv'e taken that concrete out first if i were you and compacted quarry process base or c-33 under it before laying those brick. I guess there's nothing wrong with that but i've never heard of doing that before,and we specialize in pool decking and coping. Thats what they teach us at the icpi certification classes every year.:itflag:

I agree 100% with you, but I only pull the cement out when doing drive ways or walk ways where things need to be flush. These are venneer pavers and they are designed to go over cement. They are 2 inches shorter than the standard. Over the bed, I should have used the bigger pavers, but I wanted to see how the smaller ones would hold up. They are more expensive than the standard pavers but you get more sqft, so I guess it evens out. I have about 8 inches of 1/4 inch minus under and it is compacted really tight. Gotta remember, if your gonna try something different, try it at your own house first. I have added and taken things out of my yard so many times I cant remember what it looked like when I bought the house!!

Now since this is our primary service, what do you recommened me doing as far as the joints around the pool? I am having different thoughts about how I should go about filling those. Also, would you break the pattern up around the smaller part of the deck or try and keep it the same?

05 superduty
03-29-2010, 10:07 AM
I agree with you on that,better to try at your own house first rather than piss off a customer,lol. It looks good so far. The only thing i can tell you is,if the coping isn't glued or cemented down yet i would relay them so its worked out to where the back of them has the smallest joints possible next to the pavers. You may have to play with them a bit but when you go to joint them you wont have huge gaps. The fronts might be a little more tight than you want but more people will see the top of the coping from the outside than the front face from inside the pool. As for the joints i would just use a bakers bag (marshalltown makes good grout bags) with portland/sand,wait till its almost dry and tool the joints nice:itflag:.

05 superduty
03-29-2010, 10:13 AM
Also,dont worry too much about staining the brick. I wouldnt seal the brick till after ,just make sure if your using the portland that after you tool the joints nice you take a good,big sponge and clean any cement off the brick before they dry.

Rex Mann
03-29-2010, 02:34 PM
Some tips for installing pavers and installing pavers as an overlay of either concrete or asphalt.

You always want to use a geotextile over the concrete or asphalt. When the material cracks, which it will, the bedding sand will be confined by the geotextile. Without the geotextile the sand will migrate down the cracks or between the foundation and the patio leading to bedding sand loss that intern leads to your pavers settling or rutting. The term, settling or rutting, used depends on the application of the pavers.

Always use a washed concrete sand that conforms to ASTM C 33 as your bedding sand over a concrete or asphalt overlay. There are several reasons to use bedding sand in this application. One would be, that the concrete or asphalt is probably not true flat (do not confuse the term flat with level) this really holds true of the control joints and where the CJ's may cross. Here they tend to curl up like corners on a sheet of paper. Next, the manufacture has an allowance of + or - 1/8-inch in thickness. If we got two pavers, one on each end of the range, which is 1/4-inch, next to each other then we have a tripping hazard. And, we are outside of our allowable lipage as installers, which is 1/8-inch. The bedding sand will compensate for any of the allowable manufacturing tolerances in thickness. No bedding sand then no way to compensate for any thickness variances.

The jointing sand should be an angular sand with 1% or less of fines. Fines in our industry is defined as: any material passing the #200 sieve. We want a free draining material as bedding sand and jointing sand. Use ASTM C 144 for jointing sand or ASTM C 33 can be used, too. Silica sand is not angular and does not lock up. It will wash out very easily.

Your pictures show a pattern but you have a continuous lines, that is okay structurally for pedestrian applications. In vehicular applications you want to avoid these long lines. Rule of thumb is that lines should be no more than 3 feet long before you break them.

The downturn coping is nice. I am so glad companies are coming out with it. Makes overlays easier to sell. The accepted gap between pavers is 3/8-inch. If it is larger than the 3/8-inch then it needs to be cut to close the gap up. Same rule for the coping and the grout line. You should bust out the wet saw and cut them. And, cutting remodel coping is not fun. But, it will look WAY BETTER.

Peace,

Rex

http://PaverExperts.Com

AzLawnMan
03-29-2010, 04:08 PM
Rex, Great info. This is not my primary point of business as I am almost entirely maintenance. I only offer this service to current customers, and do not advertise it and if its something too big I will usually refer it to a friend of mine that has a crew that does this work daily. I do smaller jobs and do use all the recommendations that you mentioned above. I feel since they are small enough jobs then there is no need to cut any corners. But you being from Arizona as well, Im sure you have felt the crunch here on many landscaping jobs. I thought I would try it "cheaper" on my place first, I say "cheaper" because customers simply dont want or cant afford in some cases to have the job properly done right. When we do a "cheaper" job, which I am thinking of getting away from, I have it in our contract the possibilties that may happen in the future because we went away from the proper way. Business is so competitve right now, its hard to say, "I only do it this way, which is the right way and thats why I am more expensive than the other guy", and pass up on the job, when the next guy will do the "cheaper" job and the customer is just as happy. Make sense?

traderfjp
03-30-2010, 01:25 AM
If the concrete has been there for 10 or more years I doubt it will crack. Putting pavers over a cement patio is not the ideal situation because the pavers are sitting in water for extended periods of time. The fabric will act like a wet blanket and keep the moisture near the pavers even longer. I would skip this step.

Rex Mann
03-30-2010, 02:03 AM
The fabric will act like a wet blanket and keep the moisture near the pavers even longer. I would skip this step.

I should have clarified that the geotextile should be woven and not spun or punched.

Peace,

Rex

http://pavers.ning.com/

traderfjp
03-30-2010, 07:53 AM
Have you thought about using PL glue for the coping? Are you going to mortar the joints?

AzLawnMan
03-31-2010, 12:32 AM
We are gonna mortar the joints with a brown dye. I am finishing up the smaller cuts today and tommarow, then the joints should be done by thursday. Everything should be completed by this weekend. I picked up paying jobs this week, so my house gets put on hold!

zedosix
03-31-2010, 07:57 AM
With joints that size around the pool edge why not take the time since its your home anyway, and cut the coping to fit. Those huge gaps are an eyesore. You have quite a bit of cutting to do anyway

Rex Mann
03-31-2010, 09:42 PM
I agree with Zedosix.

Peace,

Rex

http://pavers.ning.com/

mathews
04-02-2010, 08:10 AM
Did u skip the geotextile fab?

Superior L & L
04-03-2010, 04:59 PM
that is a TON of cuts around that pool, but needed

zedosix
04-03-2010, 06:37 PM
Cutting is all part of the job guys, just the way it goes.

AzLawnMan
04-12-2010, 09:58 PM
Finaly had found some time to finish alot of the work. I still have to mortar the joints, but that should only take a few hours or so. Hows it all looking?
Thanks fellas

Moneypit
04-12-2010, 10:39 PM
You really should have cut the coping. Anyone who has any clue about pavers will pick that apart as soon as they walk into your yard.
What happened? Not enough time or you just didn't feel like it?

AzLawnMan
04-12-2010, 10:46 PM
There are 245 coping pavers, 165 would have been cut. I wanted the same size look all around. We did the largest turn and it took 35 to make the turn and to me it look like crap. I understand the "proper" way to cut, but with more than 70% cut and the other 30% to size I just didnt want that look. The mortar color is almost the exact color so once it gets done you may not see the larger joints. And if someone looks hard enough to point it out, I will slap them in the back of the head and ask, "Where were you when this was getting done?"

traderfjp
04-13-2010, 12:52 AM
Nice job but the coping looks unfinished. Can you do grout the joints with maybe a cauking?

PlatinumLandCon
04-13-2010, 01:40 AM
There are 245 coping pavers, 165 would have been cut. I wanted the same size look all around. We did the largest turn and it took 35 to make the turn and to me it look like crap. I understand the "proper" way to cut, but with more than 70% cut and the other 30% to size I just didnt want that look. The mortar color is almost the exact color so once it gets done you may not see the larger joints. And if someone looks hard enough to point it out, I will slap them in the back of the head and ask, "Where were you when this was getting done?"

It looks bad, plain and simple. The little path around the pool looks horrible with the little pieces along the outer edge and the coping should have been cut.

traderfjp
04-13-2010, 07:09 AM
I think once the coping is mortared it will look great. Keep the pics coming

Moneypit
04-13-2010, 09:05 PM
I think once the coping is mortared it will look great. Keep the pics coming

.........says the guy who wants to caulk to joints

zedosix
04-13-2010, 09:09 PM
Are you still going to show this to your customers?

traderfjp
04-13-2010, 09:11 PM
They sell special caulking that takes the place of mortar.

PatriotLandscape
04-13-2010, 09:25 PM
They sell special caulking that takes the place of mortar.

who does? never heard of it.

andyslawncare
04-15-2010, 01:04 AM
the edges near the pool need to be super strong! I was pressure washing a property a few weeks ago and a few stones went to the bottom of the pool!! I'm interested to know your process here...

pghlandscape
04-26-2010, 12:17 AM
the sand is wrong and will wash out, this is a major project to tackle without some serious experience and i see many future problems ahead....a maintanence nightmare is coming your way. im not putting you down im just being honest

pghlandscape
04-26-2010, 12:20 AM
also your pattern is horrible there is no locking .... bro you need to stop and rethink this. grass cutters cant give advice on this. if you did this job at my home id throw you in the pool and put the cover on it:)

AzLawnMan
04-27-2010, 01:04 PM
I think pools are the hardest to do. *trucewhiteflag*

jarrinbrothers
05-04-2010, 11:43 PM
that project is good, some one know the price for Sf on patio with pavers or blue stone

05 superduty
05-17-2010, 10:47 PM
You really should've cut the bullnose. I don't wanna sound like that guy but im interested to see what the joints are gonna look like when its done. Those joints are HUGE.