PDA

View Full Version : New Job Bid - 1st big Job - Help


Mylawnwi
03-31-2010, 12:44 PM
Hi -

I want to say thanks for any feedback.

I put a bid in yesterday @ $6227 for:

12 x 28 rectangular brick patio with a small fire pit built in
I have to break up about 25' of concrete walk 3 " thick and haul away too

brick is like $3.25 per sq ft.
6 inches of gravel
2 inch of sand
Sealer


Also he has 130' of garden beds that need the existing brick edging removed and it is being replaced by other brick which will cost about

$1200

for the whold thing. Also he is putting in decorateve stone in place of the mulch whic will cost

$500

We are also re shaping some these beds and cleaning out existing mulch and bushes.

This bid also includes the aeration of his lawn and neighbors lawn along with overseeding his lawn.

I believe this is all. I figured in like $3400 in materials, rental equipt, and hard costs. We figured about $2700 in labor. We are trying to give a deal to get the job. We are in IL. What do you all think?

Thank you!

northmichigan
03-31-2010, 07:15 PM
I'd say you are on the low side but with the economy....

Edgewater
03-31-2010, 07:50 PM
Ok so you covered your cost. I hope you enjoy the work, because that is all you will get from it unless you add a profit margin to your bids.

YOU NEED TO GET PAID.

You need to make a return on the money you put out for materials etc.

Meezer
03-31-2010, 09:35 PM
Wow, that is definitely on the low side.

Mylawnwi
04-01-2010, 01:35 PM
I agree that it was on the low side. We wanted to get the business. I work FT elseware and my partner got laid off so to get the work is better than nothing. Yeah the economy really dose make a difference. I am just trying to get this work b/c it will be good to get one like this out of the way for references and nice pics you know. So If we can make 30 per hour or more doing it we are fully ok with it. We are still very small with little overhead other than insurance, gas, & maintenance or so you know. We are using my 2 car garage as our shop so no rent there. :)

For the guy who posted the response ( So you just covered your cost ) As you can see I have 2700 built in for Labor so how did I just cover my cost? I am not sure I am understanding you correctly buddy? I added 10% to all material cost after taxes as my margin for that and then my labor cost.

++
The guy actually responded today and said it was a bit more than he thought but I am sure that he dosn't have a clue on how much the acutal material costs. I told him we could disscount our labor 5% but that is it. Also I told him he could pick cheaper brick for the patio. He is going to let us know today. and from the light I got from your responsees it dose seem as though he won't find it anywhere cheaper really.

Thanks for the feedback though guys! If we get this I will def post some pics.

:usflag:


Any pricing info you guys want to throw my way is great! Thanks!

Meezer
04-01-2010, 09:52 PM
Mylawnwi,

Do you plan on doing stuff like this as a hobby or are you going to do this FT as a business?

kootoomootoo
04-01-2010, 10:55 PM
Ok so you covered your cost. I hope you enjoy the work, because that is all you will get from it unless you add a profit margin to your bids.

YOU NEED TO GET PAID.

You need to make a return on the money you put out for materials etc.

ok tell us how much per hr he is getting....

jamo1911
04-01-2010, 11:05 PM
Hey My Lawn,
I find it hard to believe that you will make any money on that job. Kinda scary to me. We've all been there. One of my first jobs I made a huge estimating mistake and almost lost my shirt. I had to sell my truck to buy food. My only advice is to really check your numbers. Figure out how much the dump fee will be for all excavated material. Double check thickness of the concrete in more than one place. Where is the excavated dirt going? How much fire brick will you need if any for your pit design, paver edging, spikes, Fuel etc. The brick edging alone is easily worth $22/LF some will go as low as $15 but $9.23 / LF is really low and did you charge for haul off of old brick or was it "included" You should get at least $500 in demo for that. Aerating the neighbors lawn and his for free??? That's just embarrassing. I wouldn't even tell anybody that.
The worst thing about this is that the customer thinks he's paying too much. I would walk.
When edgewater said that you just covered your cost he is right. Your cost for the job is labor and materials combined. A good rule of thumb is 1/3 materials + 1/3 labor + 1/3 profit. If you are spending less than 1/3 on labor chances are that you are doing sub professional work.
Thing is that to be profitable you have to include wear and tear on tools, trucks, yourself etc. Did you ever think of what happens if he doesn't pay, or more likely pays slow? What happens if you dig and find something you have to get rid of? Do you have a contract, insurance etc.
Good luck man and take some advice from a guy that has been there. Give the customer $1000 and go home and sit on your couch. At least you will have not wasted your time and money, just the money.
Another piece of advice, loose the partner. If the business does well you will have a mess 20 years from now. I know 100's of people in the industry and very few can make that partner thing work.

Bru75
04-01-2010, 11:39 PM
You told that tightwad you would discount your labor? Good Lord, man!
Walk away, fast.

yardworks, inc.
04-01-2010, 11:50 PM
What is the 2 in. of sand for? One inch is standard. You might take some of the responses as criticism but most of us our speaking from experience. It takes several jobs to get your estimating right. If you keep bidding low to get the work you will only go broke slower. Also you will hurt yourself in the long run if this customer tells his friends and neighbors what you are willing to work for. Plus you hurt the industry charging lower rates.

Meezer
04-02-2010, 12:21 AM
You told that tightwad you would discount your labor? Good Lord, man!
Walk away, fast.

The tightwad will keep stringing him along to see how low OP will go.

Superior L & L
04-02-2010, 07:26 AM
As low as the bid already was, you should not have lowered the price any more. Next time customers tell you that, offer to reduce the scope of work (no seeding & lawn work) Dont reduce your potential profit because this guy cannot afford it. Another option is phasing over a couple years or financing

jamo1911
04-02-2010, 08:13 AM
offer to reduce the scope of work (no seeding & lawn work) Dont reduce your potential profit because this guy cannot afford it. Another option is phasing over a couple years or financing

That's 100% correct.

Bru75
04-02-2010, 07:03 PM
The tightwad will keep stringing him along to see how low OP will go.

Yup, it's like a game to some people. He'll probably brag to all his neighbors about how he demanded a lower price and got it 'cause he's so tough.

DVS Hardscaper
04-02-2010, 07:10 PM
I hate seeing the word "BID" on this site.

Don't say "bid" Unless you do commercial work.

Bid means to submit a price with the hopes of being the lowest to obtain the job or the highest to obtain an object. Bidding only relates to dollars.

I *price work for what it will cost us to do it and hopefully make a profit* known as quoting :)

Meezer
04-05-2010, 03:38 PM
Hey OP did you get the project?? If not, theres a guy in your town, West Dundee, IL that needs some help:


Hardscaping - Brick Paving, Prepping Base, Brick Garden Bed (West Dundee)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 2010-04-05, 1:54PM CDT
Reply to: gigs-6rvs9-1677553024@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I am looking for someone for a days work. It will be the next nice day we have. It may be thursday. Whatever day it doesnt rain comming up. I have a 300 sq ft brick paver patio I am laying. I have 120' of garden bed that I am laying 2 retaining wall brick and 1 cap stone high. Hole is dug with gravel in. We just need to tamp, put leveing sand, grade it, lay brick. I also have trench dug for garden bed brick, just need to put a bit of gravel and some sand and lay.

I am looking for someone who I can leave work on his own either grading and laying the patio brick while I work on the garden beds or visa versa. YOU will need to have done this many times before and be able to have thing be level and strait as well as know how to cut brick. Do not respond if you are not 100% sure of yourself. This could lead to other work for you down the road depending on our work flow this year.

Let me know asap via text message your info below : NO PHONE CALLS I WILL RESPONDE TO WHOM GIVE ME THE DETAILS BELOW AFTER 330 PM CST TODAY.

I need you to txt me your:

full name
Age
Experiance
Phone number
Vehicle

Thanks,

Michael 630-945-8118

http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/lbg/1677553024.html

land_scaper70
04-06-2010, 01:39 PM
As low as the bid already was, you should not have lowered the price any more. Next time customers tell you that, offer to reduce the scope of work (no seeding & lawn work) Dont reduce your potential profit because this guy cannot afford it. Another option is phasing over a couple years or financing

Never put your profit on the table. Take something off the table before you lower the price on anything. Offer less to lower the price, make the homeowner choose what it is.

Mylawnwi
04-07-2010, 08:59 AM
Hey guys. first off pardon my spelling b/c I plain out suck at it & I appriciate all the feedback. I am willing to take critisicum as long as it is constructive and not attacking. I see most people on here are good guys.

No I don't plan on doing this as a Hobbie. Do you think I would start a legit business for a hobbie? It takes time to grow and learn my friend. I am not going to be a pro and do everything correct right out of the gat. I do have a FT Sale job durring the day and my partner just got laid off so he is able to work for us FT. Eventually I will get out of it and do work and sales for our company.

We are not doing half ass work either. We hold our work to the highest standards even if it takes us extra time. We strive for excellence and a good name that is why we get referrals.

We started our lawn business with push mowers on the side. I started with a partner because that is how it worked out. Each of us had some equiptment but neither had the whole deal or could afford it all. We both have skills the other dosn't have. I know partnerships don't alwasy work but hey at least I can say we have a legit insured buisiness that is pretty successfull after only being in business for 10 months.

I understand where everyone is comming from on the pricing. I am not going to make it a habbit to " Submit Pricing " to a customer that is low balling. I do realize it hurts only ME and the INDUSTRY as a whole. I hate low ballers myself. This guy is pretty much a neighbor to us for he lives like 2 blocks from our home base. This job is a good learning experiance as a whole for our company from the estimating, planning, & completion of the job. We really needed a job like this under our belt.

With how far we have come on this job we have about 65 man hours in and probably will have another 35 or so. We will probably come out after paying people and all materials / rentals about 2200-2500 in profit. For us right now that is not bad. This will help us get a better trailer and a second mower. Right now that is what we need to do to grow. Without better and more equiptment we can not begin to think about getting big jobs. If you think back to when you started ( if you started with low capital and barily any equiptment ) you will remember that you needed revenue to grow.

I assure you all that we will be in this for the long haul and will help the industry and not hurt it.

Any info or feedback we can get is great in terms of pricing and stuff so that we can keep our prices up as to not hurt anyone elses pockets b/c I would feel the same way.

Take care guys. I'll post some pics when we are done.

www.mylawnwizard.com

Meezer
04-07-2010, 11:07 AM
With how far we have come on this job we have about 65 man hours in and probably will have another 35 or so. We will probably come out after paying people and all materials / rentals about 2200-2500 in profit.


It seems from reading your posts that you have no idea what profit means in terms of running a legit business.


In your first post your wrote:


I figured in like $3400 in materials, rental equipt, and hard costs. We figured about $2700 in labor


So what happened to the the profit part?????

Mylawnwi
04-07-2010, 11:38 AM
Yo Mr. Mason. Buddy, it was an estimate on materials. It looks like we will be around 3100. Plus we got an extra 100 out of him. That makes 3K left. I don't see how you figure that with our small 2 man company that 3K in 5 days is NOT PROFIT?

In addition: It seems all of your posts are agrumentitive or speaking in an attacking way, don't respond to me anymore. I don't need your comments. You are just the type of hater on this board that I speak about.

Go SOX, Cubs suck anyway.

I appriciate all the other guys comments for they were all constructive. I am not on this board to get into argumetative debates. I came here for opinons and help. Thanks to all who know whats up.

Mylawnwi
04-07-2010, 11:50 AM
& if were at 3K materials, 1,200 @ 10per hr ( 120 man hours ) , leaves 1900 profit. That is pretty damn close to 1/3 materials - 1/3 labor - 1/3 profit

I am not sure if that is how they use that calculation but that is what I am thinking. no?

Meezer
04-07-2010, 12:19 PM
It is quite obvious with your immature rant that you can't accept any constructive criticism at all.

I really feel bad for the legit contractors out there in the Western burbs. They now have another jackleg to contend with

Mylawnwi
04-07-2010, 12:27 PM
Haha. That is hailarious. Immature..... ? wow, Dude read your posts. Your critisim isn't constructive at all it is argumentative. Try going to school. We will make the industry better in time, don't worry. You don't have to hate. We are building good relationships with well know people in all facets of our business here in the western burbs, even other hardscapers. We are in business to bring good not make things worse. Just because we are a new company that is in the process of learning dosn't make us bad. I assure you we will be helping some of the other hardscapers out here in the future. We will be big.

Meezer
04-07-2010, 12:50 PM
Yes, you are very immature. Anyone reading your previous post can clearly see that. You should follow your own advice & go back to school. The fact that you have no clue on what the differences are between ones labor costs vs profit is quite revealing:laugh:

Budlightshooter
04-07-2010, 05:18 PM
I am well over $12k and I havent figured in removal of the concrete. Oh well back to the drawing table! I have a feeling the op is going to be there alot longer than he thinks.

Bru75
04-07-2010, 05:47 PM
$10.00 per hour?
Not a lowballer, huh?

Mylawnwi
04-08-2010, 10:42 AM
More bashers. Look man that is what I was paying anyone we had helping us. We were figuring our labor at $30 per hour. Like is said we are very small have almost no over head except repairs, insurance, registrations, ect... We both had FT jobs till my partner got laid off. We are trying to get things right. If you were to read the whole thread you would understand this is our 1st BRICK job. You can't expect us to be 100% correct with pricing not knowing what others charge for things. We got the call, went to the job and did our best to throw a price out there. RELAX. We are not here to low ball the industry. Our pricing will come up once we realize where the market is at.

I do appricate good comments. Don't bash. I am not here to bash others. :weightlifter:

yeah I will let you know how many man hours we have when we are done. its been raining the past few days which set us back on the job.

mcornett
04-08-2010, 01:21 PM
Mylawnwi,

I have to say something here- you have received quite a few remarks that are let's say- glass half empty. While I agree with some (don't take a hit on your profits or time), I also agree with offering a low quote to get the job to help promote your business. You have to start somewhere and if you feel you have covered most of your costs, then good for you! If it turns out you take a loss, it's not like it's going to cost you your business. As long as you make sure the job is done right and don't create a bad reputation for yourself, you will be just fine. I would like to suggest taking a class offered by ICPI (Interlocking Concrete Pavement Institute) or NCMA (National Concrete Masonry Association) that will help you understand all the elements to quoting out a job. Also, our company offers a class that certifies you as a certified applicator and in the class our trainer provides tips on the best way to bid (or quote) on a job. Check out upcoming classes here-http://surebond.com/certification/
Good luck and I hope everything goes well for you!

Mylawnwi
04-08-2010, 01:32 PM
Thanks ( mcornett ) I agree with a lot of the stuff some of the guys say too. It is all a learning experiance for us. I figure the same thing. Hey we needed this job to gain valuble experiance in many ways.

I will take a look at some of these courses for sure. Education can never hurt in this business. I am still learning about the differrent companies out there that sell & promote their brick products.

The main thing for us on this one is we make a bit of revenue and we do the job correct. Next time we know more.

Edgewater
04-08-2010, 01:50 PM
. We are still very small with little overhead other than insurance, gas, & maintenance or so you know. We are using my 2 car garage as our shop so no rent there. :)

These are dangerous words. Subsidizing your business with use of your home is not a good idea. You can take advantage of it, but by that I mean price like other companies and make extra profit. You will not always be able to work from home.

Also Gas and Maintenance are not overhead. Overhead are costs that you incur without production. Office staff, insurance, rent, phone bill.

Gas and Maintenance are direct cost that are incurred through production. If you don't work, you don't have these costs.

Gas and maintenance of an estimating or sales vehicle could however be classified as overhead.

Nothing that goes into producing a job is free....ever. Not paper from the home printer, not your time, not your garage (you paid or are paying for it) not the use of you truck or wife's car. You have to charge for everything that goes into the job.

Mylawnwi
04-08-2010, 02:26 PM
Thanks man. All is good info that I will take into account forsure. I just seen a cupon book come to my place yesterday and this lawn company is advertising lowest cut price starting at $15. I am like Geeze man talk about low balling. We do nothing cheaper than $25 but hate to do less than $30

Meezer
04-08-2010, 10:53 PM
$10.00 per hour?
Not a lowballer, huh?

That's right Bru75 you have OP pegged dead on.

He complains about people lowballing, charging $15 a lawn. So he decides to jump into hardscapes by lowballing bigtime & that's somehow okay in his little world?????:hammerhead:

PlatinumLandCon
04-09-2010, 01:51 AM
& if were at 3K materials, 1,200 @ 10per hr ( 120 man hours ) , leaves 1900 profit. That is pretty damn close to 1/3 materials - 1/3 labor - 1/3 profit

I am not sure if that is how they use that calculation but that is what I am thinking. no?
To be clear, these are the costs you have told us:

Materials- $3100

Labor- $1200

"Profit"- $1900

It doesn't take a 5th grade education to see that's nothing close to 1/3, 1/3, 1/3:hammerhead:. I don't want to seem rude but thats just a VERY obvious observation. That job should be $6k for just the patio, not to mention all the other stuff.

Edit: LOL I remember when $6k was a big job. Add a couple zero's then maybe its big....

Mylawnwi
04-09-2010, 08:28 AM
Meezer -- Dude seriously. You are just as rediculous as your chinsy website. Stay off if all you have is bashing comments. We already know I submitted a low price, never done a job like this before, not even a year in buisiness yet, have a lot to learn ( hence why I even came on this site ), & am looking for help not J.O.'s

GET it RIGHT. I didn't low ball. I had no CLUE how to price the job to industry standards. DUH! Also I didn't JUMP into Hardscaping it jumped on me. I didn't go out activly seeking brick jobs. I had a call from a referral and went to look at it and said hey I can do this job. It would be a good learning experiance.

I really don't see what is wrong with that. But bash away just to make you feel good about your own SHORT commings buddy. Good Luck to you. No one likes to work with, for, or give jobs to a JO. I am sure your people , friends, customers all can see it.

Mylawnwi
04-09-2010, 09:19 AM
Mcornett or Edgewatter

on the 1/3 ruel some guys had mentioned on here.

If hypotheticaly speaking I have a job that:

3K materials
110 man hours calculated @ 30 per hr. $3300
Profit = 3K then ?

Submitted price barring no other costs that need to be factored in would be $9300 ?

Thanks.. I have never had to do this for any jobs we have had in the 8 months we have been in business no have I owned a busisness before. I want to make sure I keep up with the industry and I am not bringing the value of this type of work down in the future.

Thanks!

Meezer
04-09-2010, 11:01 AM
To be clear, these are the costs you have told us:

Materials- $3100

Labor- $1200

"Profit"- $1900

It doesn't take a 5th grade education to see that's nothing close to 1/3, 1/3, 1/3:hammerhead:. I don't want to seem rude but thats just a VERY obvious observation. That job should be $6k for just the patio, not to mention all the other stuff.

Edit: LOL I remember when $6k was a big job. Add a couple zero's then maybe its big....



Platinum,

You do realize that by pointing out the VERY obvious that it would brand you, as it was done to others, according to OP, a basher :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Mylawnwi
04-09-2010, 02:49 PM
:waving: My buddy who lives in the Arm Pit of America :usflag: , Mr. Ram Masonry. :dancing: Just realx and do your thing and let us worry about our stuff out here. No need to get your panties in a bunch :dizzy: over this small company trying to learn and grow. :nono: We will build and maintain good relationships with other Great guys and companies.

Cheers.

:drinkup:

Mylawnwi
04-09-2010, 02:53 PM
*trucewhiteflag*

Trying to be real. Just need to learn from people who are willing to give good advice and realize the situation. I'm :walking: away.

Meezer
04-09-2010, 04:43 PM
:waving: My buddy who lives in the Arm Pit of America :usflag: , Mr. Ram Masonry. :dancing: Just realx and do your thing and let us worry about our stuff out here. No need to get your panties in a bunch :dizzy: over this small company trying to learn and grow. :nono: We will build and maintain good relationships with other Great guys and companies.

Cheers.

:drinkup:


My dear Mylawnwi,

Since you've been busy checking out our website, you can easily see that part of our service area happens to be the "Greater Chicagoland" area. So as you can see Pilgrim, your lowballing does affect our company as well as other legit contractors in the area.

northofeden
04-10-2010, 02:31 PM
Take it easy kid a lot of guys started out like you.

Most of the advice you’ve received is good. You need to get in the habit of thinking fixed vs. variable costs. Even if you don’t pay for (labor burden): insurance, workman’s comp, payroll taxes, etc.

Illinois has an excellent Landscape Contractor Association. Go to ILCA.net visit their website and consider a membership. The $450.00 or whatever you pay as member is overhead. You pay fee that whether you sell 1 patio or 100, whether it snows 1” or 100”, mow 1 lawn or 100. Hopefully you get the idea.

If you get in the habit now it will pay off later when you get “big.”

Mylawnwi
04-12-2010, 01:02 PM
Thanks Northofeden. I will look into that for sure.

We got almost done with this job last night. It was dark last night so I couldn't take finished pics. Touch ups today. Here are a couple pics b4 I finished some cuts and added sand. Mind you some of the Caps on the wall by the pool are not cut yet so it looks choppy but they don't anymore.

:clapping:

PlatinumLandCon
04-13-2010, 12:10 AM
That pattern looks like crap

Moneypit
04-13-2010, 09:02 PM
That pattern looks like crap

I would have said it a little nicer...... but I agree 100%.

nepatsfan
04-13-2010, 09:20 PM
That pattern looks like crap

I probably wouldn't have picked that pattern, but do you guys pick patterns when you install a patio? I may suggest a few but ultimately I let the homeowner pick. I think it looks good though. Keep up the good work.

wurkn with amish
04-14-2010, 07:45 PM
I pick the pattern and most of the time the pavers, we're the pros not them....

nepatsfan
04-14-2010, 09:38 PM
I pick the pattern and most of the time the pavers, we're the pros not them....

whatever twiddles your bean. I pick the brand. I let them pick color style and pattern. why would you pick the particular paver? Do you let the painter pick the color of the house, the tile guy pick the tile, the cabinet guy pick the cabinets. why would a landscaper choose the style and color paver. Brand I can understand, if you only want to use one you feel comfortable with the product but just because you are the pro doesnt mean you have the same color or design taste as people. I may suggest a pattern or color but I give them the options for the pavers they choose and I show it to them on a computer program with the pavers in place at their house in the color and pattern they choose before I begin. I just take a picture of their house when I do the estimate. It works mint and sells jobs really well and it gives me the opportunity to correspond with people after give them the proposal. It literally takes about 5-10 minutes to do too.

andyslawncare
04-15-2010, 01:20 AM
I think your charge is too low. You need to make money. You listed a lot of back breaking work...and you should pocket from it. If your customer doesn't have the money, than they shouldn't be looking to have work done on their property. One thing I have found useful in the past few years is to accept credit cards through an online merchant account; no credit card machine expense, just $15-$20 per month in fee. 80% of our billing is paperless now.

here is my charge formula:

E-equipment (this includes your hand tools, and rental equipment; plus time to get the machine(s). Chances are you will break a tool every so often...)
L-labor (not your pay, but hired help with workers comp, etc if applicable)
M-Material with taxes and delivery---I usually over estimate all materials by 5-10% to be safe.
O-Overhead costs ----If you don't know your direct hourly or daily overhead cost, then charge a percentage on E,L,M, and S. Say 5-10% on each. E,L,M,O, and S is your break even cost.
S-Sub Contractor(s)
ADD UP E,L,M,O, and S. Add this number to C and P. This will ensure money in your pocket when the job is done.

C-Contingency (the "oops" factor. This amount can either be credited back to the cost if things go as planned, added to your profit, or used for the unexpected----which many larger jobs have...)
P-Profit. Generally 20-30% is acceptable. Now you can't go use this formula and expect to make $1,000 when you buy a statue that costs 6,000 and takes only 1 hour for you to position, but if you run your numbers right you will be sure that your bottom line is met, and money is going to the bank.

andyslawncare
04-15-2010, 01:27 AM
I pick the pattern and most of the time the pavers, we're the pros not them....


agreed. I wouldn't have let the customer pick that pattern. I show my customers examples of patterns we will follow, and they pick from that. I wouldn't have run straight lines, it should be offset.

You did a proper install and I'm sure you impressed your customer by doing so. Sometimes, we all do things differently than we would at our own properties.

Mylawnwi
04-15-2010, 08:25 AM
I appriciate the positive feedback guys and constructive criticism from some of you. You can see the haters above in some posts. They did pick the pattern. I didn't like it too much anyhow but it is our 1st hardscaping job as said erlier in the post. I will learn more about patterns and probably steer the next guy away. I think it came out well in the end. Yes we should have made more money for sure and we will next time. This whole job was a big learning experiance as well. It was some hard work. haha. I know we could have done a few things better but hey at least the guy paid up at the end. haha. I still need to drop by to take some finished pictures. It def looks a bit better.

Meezer
04-15-2010, 11:04 AM
I appriciate the positive feedback guys and constructive criticism from some of you. You can see the haters above in some posts.

Don' see any haters, just constructive criticism some of which you just can't take

nepatsfan
04-15-2010, 06:55 PM
the pattern in a patio is asthetics. I will suggest patterns but I offer the choice to them. It is personal taste, if you guys want to try to act like big shots and say you tell your customers what taste they should have fine. I let them choose and most of the time they defer to me on the pattern. I will then pick the easiest and best looking. If they want a particular pattern, we do what they want.

Bru75
04-15-2010, 11:30 PM
the pattern in a patio is asthetics.

Not exactly.
Some patterns have more interlock than others.
Herringbone is one of the strongest, ones that have all of those straight joint lines are the weakest.

nepatsfan
04-16-2010, 07:03 AM
Not exactly.
Some patterns have more interlock than others.
Herringbone is one of the strongest, ones that have all of those straight joint lines are the weakest.

I knew someone would say that. The fact is it really doesnt matter.

Bru75
04-16-2010, 08:24 AM
I knew someone would say that. The fact is it really doesnt matter.

OK, you build 'em your way, I'll build 'em mine.

steve5966
04-17-2010, 10:33 AM
Not exactly.
Some patterns have more interlock than others.
Herringbone is one of the strongest, ones that have all of those straight joint lines are the weakest.

Unless your parking a dump truck on your patio, the strength gained from the pattern is irrelavent. A road or parking lot it makes a difference.

steve5966
04-17-2010, 10:41 AM
Where the wall meets the steps, you should have run one block back towards the house. It would have boxed in the river rock completely. As it sits now, the rock will fall on the steps.

Bru75
04-17-2010, 01:29 PM
Unless your parking a dump truck on your patio, the strength gained from the pattern is irrelavent. A road or parking lot it makes a difference.

I repeat: you build em' your way, I'll build 'em mine.
I learned as a kid to over build everything, make it stronger than it needs to be.

Surfdunn
04-17-2010, 03:39 PM
Maybe its just the picture but looking at the fire pit is there a grade change going from the pavers to the lawn and also why did you install rock in the bed at the front of the house.

PlatinumLandCon
04-17-2010, 09:13 PM
I repeat: you build em' your way, I'll build 'em mine.
I learned as a kid to over build everything, make it stronger than it needs to be.

I learned as a contractor to build something that looks good

jsb025
04-17-2010, 09:35 PM
Meezer, I'm in agreement with mylawnwi. You really haven't offered any productive/constructive input. Either offer up something to help him improve his business or do as he asked and stop replying to this topic. Other than that, I've learned a lot through this discussion.. I know I'm a newbie to this site, but I'm just callin' it like I see it.

Bru75
04-18-2010, 12:33 AM
I learned as a contractor to build something that looks good

Yeah, that too.

Meezer
04-18-2010, 12:55 AM
Meezer, I'm in agreement with mylawnwi. You really haven't offered any productive/constructive input. Either offer up something to help him improve his business or do as he asked and stop replying to this topic. Other than that, I've learned a lot through this discussion.. I know I'm a newbie to this site, but I'm just callin' it like I see it.



Well newbie, since you agree with Op that would make you a part of a very small minority:hammerhead: I'm just calling it the way I see it:laugh:

jsb025
04-18-2010, 09:44 AM
Meezer, will you please restate any of your "constructive" criticism that you have given along with any examples of things that could have been done to improve this job? Maybe I have overlooked something, so here is an opportunity to bring it to light.

nepatsfan
04-18-2010, 09:53 AM
Well newbie, since you agree with Op that would make you a part of a very small minority:hammerhead: I'm just calling it the way I see it:laugh:

I am in the minority too I guess:waving:

Meezer
04-18-2010, 09:54 AM
Meezer, will you please restate any of your "constructive" criticism that you have given along with any examples of things that could have been done to improve this job? Maybe I have overlooked something, so here is an opportunity to bring it to light.


Yes, you overlooked quite a bit. Go back & reread the posts.

Meezer
04-18-2010, 09:57 AM
I am in the minority too I guess:waving:

Good for you:laugh:

jsb025
04-18-2010, 10:10 AM
Wow, that is definitely on the low side.
Mylawnwi,

Do you plan on doing stuff like this as a hobby or are you going to do this FT as a business?
The tightwad will keep stringing him along to see how low OP will go.
hey OP did you get the project?? If not, theres a guy in your town, West Dundee, IL that needs some help:
It seems from reading your posts that you have no idea what profit means in terms of running a legit business.

So what happened to the the profit part?????
It is quite obvious with your immature rant that you can't accept any constructive criticism at all.

I really feel bad for the legit contractors out there in the Western burbs. They now have another jackleg to contend with
Yes, you are very immature. Anyone reading your previous post can clearly see that. You should follow your own advice & go back to school. The fact that you have no clue on what the differences are between ones labor costs vs profit is quite revealing

That's right Bru75 you have OP pegged dead on.

He complains about people lowballing, charging $15 a lawn. So he decides to jump into hardscapes by lowballing bigtime & that's somehow okay in his little world?????

Platinum,

You do realize that by pointing out the VERY obvious that it would brand you, as it was done to others, according to OP, a basher
__________________

My dear Mylawnwi,

Since you've been busy checking out our website, you can easily see that part of our service area happens to be the "Greater Chicagoland" area. So as you can see Pilgrim, your lowballing does affect our company as well as other legit contractors in the area.
Don' see any haters, just constructive criticism some of which you just can't take
Well newbie, since you agree with Op that would make you a part of a very small minority I'm just calling it the way I see it

Yes, you overlooked quite a bit. Go back & reread the posts.
__________________________________________________________________________

Here are all of you posts. Which of them are constructive? Is it the one where you call him immature? What about the one where you essentially call him an idiot because of his definition of profit. I also took a look at your website and did happen to notice 10% discount on the final price. Where are you taking that cut? Profit? Labor? Material? Looks to me like you're doing one of two things: doing a little low-balling or being a crook (mark it up just to mark it down and call it a sale). It's alright, I think I've got you pegged as one of those guys who has to get the last word in or maybe you're just here to get some stuff stirred up. Either way, mylawnwi, your first project looks good and if it is what the homeowner wanted, nobody can complain. It also sounds like you've learned quite a bit from some of the posts on this board and will only continue to be successful. Good luck on your next project.

Meezer
04-18-2010, 10:51 AM
Well Newbie, you can play keyboard commando all you want. All it will do is get it thrown right back at you until the moderators step in & shut the thread down.:laugh: I stand by all of my posts & if you don't like it, KMA.:laugh:


In addition, you can slam my website all you want. It brings us in a lot of business. And yes, like Walmart, Target, Auto Zone and thousands of other businesses around the country, we have "sales" and/or "specials", so what?? Oh btw, where's your website Mr. Keyboard Commando????:laugh:

jsb025
04-18-2010, 11:12 AM
Lol, Who is playing "keyboard commando" 14 posts on this thread? Second, I didn't slam your website, in fact, its quite nice. Maybe when my business venture gets to the point where I feel the need for one I will contact you for suggestions. I was simply asking you to point out any "constructive criticism" you might have made in order to negate my point. I see that you can't do that.

Like I said, Mylawnwi, it looks good and keep up the good work. Btw, I'm sorry for hijacking your thread.

Moderators, you don't have to shut down the thread. I've made my point and will post nothing further on this thread.

PlatinumLandCon
04-18-2010, 11:25 AM
Haha this thread is funny.... you undercharge and can't take advice from pro's. Leave the site if its too mean for you

Meezer
04-18-2010, 11:53 AM
I was simply asking you to point out any "constructive criticism" you might have made in order to negate my point. I see that you can't do that.

Then open your eyes and your mind for I certainly have in my very first post in this thread:laugh:

DVS Hardscaper
04-18-2010, 11:09 PM
thusfar 8 pages of absolutely nothing. Reminds me of the so called "premier site", when they were typing about strip clubs.

Time that could have been spent on refining your proposals, I'd bet 95% of the folks participating in this topic have proposals that are only good for wiping their 'you know whats'. Time that could have been spent refining your sales presentations. time that could have been spent on sending out thank you cards to your clients.

Ridiculous.

Now you kids need to apologize to each other. Do you hear me?



,

Oakleaf landscape
04-18-2010, 11:35 PM
Meezer is there anything you don't know? Seems to me you are a jack of all trades.
* Board Ups
* Concrete/Masonry Repairs
* Demolition Work
* Gut/Rehab Work
* Debris Removal/Trash Outs
* Ready the property for rent and/or sale
* Re-keys
* Roof Repair
* Winterizations
* Lawn care/ Landscaping
* Vehicle removal
* 24 hour Emergency Service

From your webiste.

Meezer
04-19-2010, 12:16 AM
Meezer is there anything you don't know? Seems to me you are a jack of all trades.
* Board Ups
* Concrete/Masonry Repairs
* Demolition Work
* Gut/Rehab Work
* Debris Removal/Trash Outs
* Ready the property for rent and/or sale
* Re-keys
* Roof Repair
* Winterizations
* Lawn care/ Landscaping
* Vehicle removal
* 24 hour Emergency Service

From your webiste.

Yes, Oakleaf there are quite a few things that I don't know how to do. :laugh: In those cases like electrical work, I sub it out.

The services that you posted came from our Property Preservation page of our website. Those services are for properties where we are the General Contactor.

http://rammasonry.com/Property_Preservation.html



On the services page of our website:

http://rammasonry.com/Services.html

it states:


RAM Masonry & Construction Services include, but are not limited to:



•Arch Ways
•Basement Walls
•Brick Work
•Chimney Work
•Demolition
•Driveways
•Emergency Repairs
•Fireplaces
•Firewalls
•Foundations
•Garden Walls
•Glass Block
•Historic Restoration
•Lintel Replacement
•Manufactured Stone
•Natural Stone
•Patios
•Pavers
•Preservation
•Renovations
•Repairs of All Types
•Retaining Walls
•Sidewalks
•Stairs
•Stone Work
•Terraces
•Thin Brick
•Tuck Pointing
•Unilock
•Waterproofing

Oakleaf landscape
04-19-2010, 06:02 PM
That's what I said you idiot. You do EVERYTHING! It's hard to be great at everything isnt it?

DVS Hardscaper
04-19-2010, 06:28 PM
oakleaf -

Indiana is a completely different market than Anaheim CA.

If you ever been to Indiana - you'd easily see why some people offer a schlew of services.

Indiana is a state that's been hard hit by the recession. A guy has to do what a guy has to do to get by....


,

Meezer
04-20-2010, 12:16 AM
That's what I said you idiot. You do EVERYTHING! It's hard to be great at everything isnt it?

My dear Oakleaf, as DVS correctly pointed out things are quite different here in Indiana compared to Granola land.

In addition, I hate to break the news to you, but they are successful General Contractors even in your neck of the woods. Only an imbecile would think it's a bad idea to successfully grow the company and keep our crews & subs working year round before and even during a recession. The majority of properties that we work on doing Property Preservation services happen to be foreclosures which in my area, we have plenty of. We're hired by Brokers, & Banks to work on them. These same brokers & their investment group buddies hire us to do hardscaping & masonry work on non-foreclosure properties. It'a all about networking, referrals & putting food on the table:cool2:

Lastly, glad to read you been spending a lot of time on our website. So tell us, where's your website???

GrassIsGreenerLawnCare
04-20-2010, 03:37 AM
dont worry man, that meezer *** is always bashing on people. ive seen him on other threads doing the same thing. cubs do suck. dont worry bout trash like him. there will always be some1 to make fun of everyone they meet, these people are usually insecure and have LBS aka- little big man syndrome. i would bet on it that he was made fun of in high school and is about 5 foot 6 with huuugggee beer muscles

Meezer
04-20-2010, 08:52 AM
dont worry man, that meezer *** is always bashing on people.

Oh really?? All one has to do is check my 138 posts which clearly shows that I don't. :nono:


cubs do suck

Yes they do and so do you GrassIsGreenerLawnCare:hammerhead:

Oakleaf landscape
04-21-2010, 09:13 PM
http://www.oakleaflandscape.com/

That's our website, hard to remember?

Meezer
04-21-2010, 09:31 PM
http://www.oakleaflandscape.com/

That's our website, hard to remember?


No, not hard to remember at all. It looks niceThumbs Up

Oakleaf landscape
04-23-2010, 09:12 PM
Thanks, we worked hard on it.

DVS Hardscaper
04-23-2010, 10:38 PM
Thanks, we worked hard on it.

With all due respect if you're looking to generate new leads and sales off of that site - the sad thing is - IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. In which case you got some more work ta-do.

That site is 105% lacking of S.E.O.

Without S.E.O. - all that site is doing is it's floating around lost in cyberspace. Literally. Now I know you may be thinking "what a fah king A$$ this Mr DVS is". But trust me - it's true. You're reading a post from a vetran contractor who's 85% of sales come from......the internet :)

As it stands right now, the only people that will find your site are the people that see your web address listed somewhere (yard sign, truck lettering, brochure, biz card).




,

traderfjp
04-25-2010, 09:42 AM
If you're not sure about price you can always have the customer put out the money for the supplies and then charger a per day fee. 400.00 for you and a worker would get you a decent wage.

Bogielski
04-28-2010, 01:32 PM
With how far we have come on this job we have about 65 man hours in and probably will have another 35 or so. We will probably come out after paying people and all materials / rentals about 2200-2500 in profit. For us right now that is not bad. This will help us get a better trailer and a second mower. Right now that is what we need to do to grow. Without better and more equiptment we can not begin to think about getting big jobs. If you think back to when you started ( if you started with low capital and barily any equiptment ) you will remember that you needed revenue to grow.

www.mylawnwizard.com

So what is your hourly rate for labor? We charge 75/hr for landscaping.
Our estimate for your 100 hours is $7500 alone in labor.
-$1000 per worker (i would have 3) = -$3000
add in another $1000 for random stuff.

total job cost i would have estimated at around 10 - 12k for that job

Bogielski
04-28-2010, 01:40 PM
Mcornett or Edgewatter

on the 1/3 ruel some guys had mentioned on here.

If hypotheticaly speaking I have a job that:

3K materials
110 man hours calculated @ 30 per hr. $3300
Profit = 3K then ?

Submitted price barring no other costs that need to be factored in would be $9300 ?

Thanks.. I have never had to do this for any jobs we have had in the 8 months we have been in business no have I owned a busisness before. I want to make sure I keep up with the industry and I am not bringing the value of this type of work down in the future.

Thanks!

again we charge 75/hr. Mind you when you employ people, labor isnt profit. Labor covers rentals,fuel expences and workers, not profit.

Bru75
04-28-2010, 08:41 PM
Why would labor cover rentals and fuel?

northofeden
04-29-2010, 05:23 PM
So after all these posts, where are the pictures of the finished job?

CM_HEMI
07-13-2010, 05:55 PM
GEEz! I dont blame the poor guy for not posting pics of the finished project. I wouldnt either. He posts pictures of his hard work almost done and the majority of the people responded with "damn that looks like crap". I think there are some peeople on this thread that need a good dose of compassion added to their responses and a HUGE self assesment of their egos. Everyone had to start somewhere, at some point in time. No one starts off a professional. I cant even count the number of times this guy said he was just starting out and it was his first big job.Who cares if its not big compared to what u guys do, its big to him and thats what counts becasue this is his thread that he started.