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View Full Version : Just lost a big account to a non licensed company that does the customers mowing


SeedPro
04-02-2010, 09:28 PM
Should I call the D.O.A?

Found out about it in the note the customer sent with her payment for round one, and it was a 1000 dollar a year account.

I typed a nice letter to the customer explaining that they are not licensed and are also not insured to perform these services.

Fuggin Hacks.....

I'm calling the D.O.A.

SeedPro
04-02-2010, 09:41 PM
They say on their cheap tripod website with a zillion pop ups that they do "fertilization"

I wish these hacks would just leave that to people that do it for a living.....

Definitely emailing my Ag Rep to snoop them out.

;)

signaturelawns
04-02-2010, 09:59 PM
how do you know they are not licensed?

topsites
04-02-2010, 10:19 PM
how do you know they are not licensed?

One hates to agree.

SeedPro
04-02-2010, 10:35 PM
how do you know they are not licensed?

One hates to agree.

We have a State Website that lists all licensed application companies and their categories.

You do too I'm sure.

They ain't on it.

I am.

I also just emailed my D.O.A inspector to investigate.

I hope they get busted and fined up the ying yang.

grassman177
04-02-2010, 10:59 PM
i would do the same

djagusch
04-02-2010, 11:09 PM
We have a State Website that lists all licensed application companies and their categories.

You do too I'm sure.

They ain't on it.

I am.

I also just emailed my D.O.A inspector to investigate.

I hope they get busted and fined up the ying yang.

When I do a search on a Company sometimes it doesn't pop up, but the operators name does. I know at least 2 guys in my area that are listed like that.

SeedPro
04-02-2010, 11:36 PM
When I do a search on a Company sometimes it doesn't pop up, but the operators name does. I know at least 2 guys in my area that are listed like that.

Not here unless your name is the name of your business. They aren't licensed. Trust me. I know my legal competition in the area.

This isn't a search deal. It's a comprehensive statewide list from A-Z

These guys are mowing hacks doing it illegally.

lush&green
04-03-2010, 07:24 AM
Here in NYS it is illegal to even have it part of a property maintenance contract if you are not a registered pesticide business. There is one way around it but I won't say..

Grandview
04-03-2010, 08:40 AM
Should I call the D.O.A?

Found out about it in the note the customer sent with her payment for round one, and it was a 1000 dollar a year account.

I typed a nice letter to the customer explaining that they are not licensed and are also not insured to perform these services.

Fuggin Hacks.....

I'm calling the D.O.A.

If you do not turn them in it will happen again. Speaking from experience.

SeedPro
04-03-2010, 09:23 AM
I hate to be a rat but this is getting silly. A lot of it is coming here and seeing how many people are asking questions about applying product that I am quite sure are unlicensed mowing and landscaping contractors.

Our inspector is good too. If they are up to no good, she'll bust them big time.


They live for these kinds of deals.

bug-guy
04-03-2010, 10:10 AM
here anyone can fertilize, it's when you get to pesticides(insect,weed and diesese) you need a license. i know some cutters hide it with combo products.
they are starting to make it tougher by implementing BMP's. training like CEU's for appling fert. but there really isn't enough inspectors to regulate. the only time they usaully investigate is when they get a complaint

betmr
04-03-2010, 03:01 PM
SeedPro, aren't you the guy that says the chemical label doesn't mean anything? Just protection for the Manufacturer, and "Suggestions". Maybe you burned her lawn up, and she found someone who would follow the Label instructions.

dwc
04-03-2010, 03:17 PM
Should I call the D.O.A?

Found out about it in the note the customer sent with her payment for round one, and it was a 1000 dollar a year account.

I typed a nice letter to the customer explaining that they are not licensed and are also not insured to perform these services.

Fuggin Hacks.....

I'm calling the D.O.A.

This poor guy is just trying to feed his family. I don't know why you would want to turn him in for that. You should be able to beat their price and get the job back.....that's what the customer is thinking you will do anyway.

I don't know how you could sleep at night by turning someone in for a cheaper bid and knowing YOU are the one that was ripping off the customer in the first place!

Az Gardener
04-03-2010, 03:45 PM
Just out of curiosity what services are you talking about? Fert, pre emerg, termites what do you do for 1-K per year?

Just because they are not licensed dosen't mean their hacks. I get pizzed at licensed pesticide applicators who toss contact killers all over my properties to kill nuisance pests but also kill all the beneficial because they know nothing about plants. So you can bet I will educate the client and do my best to get that situation straightened out one way or another.

I was a certified applicator and I have employees that have applicator certificates. The problem here is to be the qualifying party to get the license you have to have hundreds of hours working for someone else. On top of it the insurance to be licensed means I would have to change my focus from a full service gardening service to a really pushing the applications.

Here you can't get a company to spot treat for garden pests they want to blanket apply to everything which is not the most responsible way to handle things.

Remember when you went to a corner pharmacy to get your prescription filled? Now you go to a place called a pharmacy that sells groceries develops pictures and sells make up cards and all kinds of other junk.

Face it your industry is a dinosaur. You need to evolve or get used to losing accounts. I can't believe that you still have many inspectors left to chase down unlicensed applicators given the budget crisis your state is in.

dwc
04-03-2010, 04:00 PM
Here you can't get a company to spot treat for garden pests they want to blanket apply to everything which is not the most responsible way to handle things.
I understand where you are coming from, but in the real world, if Mr. & Ms. Homeowner hear "spot treat" they automatically think you aren't giving them their monies worth. When you leave their property, they want to see EVERYTHING dripping wet (and if it stinks real bad thats even better) or you can rest assured they will be convinced you did NOT do a good thorough job. They WILL call you back for a service call whether it actually worked or not. This is probably why it's hard to find someone to spot treat.

Trying to educate the average customer about IPM and a more responsible way to do things is like beating your head against a wall. :hammerhead:

SeedPro
04-03-2010, 04:12 PM
Well I don't think the last four comments need responded too, but safe to say I did the right thing and am glad I did it, and I hope they bust them and fine them up the wazoo.

jasontimm
04-03-2010, 04:35 PM
Well I don't think the last four comments need responded too, but safe to say I did the right thing and am glad I did it, and I hope they bust them and fine them up the wazoo.

i'm gonna have to agree with you Seed, if your required to have a license, then you better have one, there is a reason you need a license to apply chems...follow the rules or pay! thats how i see it.

betmr
04-03-2010, 04:53 PM
Well I don't think the last four comments need responded too, but safe to say I did the right thing and am glad I did it, and I hope they bust them and fine them up the wazoo.

You weren't talking up the law so much last night ? What happened, Suddenly get Religion ?

CLARK LAWN
04-03-2010, 04:58 PM
hopefully they are better at it in your state than here. we have a VERY illeagal company around here and numerous people have reported them to the state. at a seminar about a month ago one of the inspectors was there and made a comment to me because i was late renewing my license. another contractor that was with me asked what they are going to do to XXX landscaping and his answer was " we are trying to point them in the right direction"

so i asked why bother having a license and paying all the extra money for it and the insurance and all. he didnt answer just changed the subject.

dwc
04-03-2010, 04:58 PM
It looks to me like SeedPro could do the job cheaper and beat this guy's price if he didn't have a license. Maybe $1,000 was ripping the customer off. I couldn't imagine someone paying that much per year for lawn care. Either this was a monster yard or you got greedy. Tell her the rest of the year will be $400 (which is probably a more fair price) and try to win her back. It may be too late though, sometimes once a person finds out they have been getting ripped off it leaves a bad taste in their mouth and you can NEVER win them back.

Mjcurry3
04-03-2010, 05:00 PM
I too would be upset, sometimes you have to get over this BS though. It happens to the best of us. I don't know what type of program you run so its hard for me to equate one of our $1000 a year acct to one of yours. We run a monthly program, so if you quarterly or something I would be more upset also. Try to concentrate this next months on sales to make up for the lost acct. We have over 4000 customers, so losing a $1000 isn't the biggest problem we have going. We sold over 81 accts this week alone... What would you do if you had to spend all the extra money to get those customers started... PS, we double app all our new sales... See what i mean lol

Good luck to you, also, chances are the state will just scare em and give ema warning. But hopefully this is enought for you to get your acct back.

Good luck!
-Matt

Turfdoctor1
04-03-2010, 07:10 PM
i'm gonna have to agree with you Seed, if your required to have a license, then you better have one, there is a reason you need a license to apply chems...follow the rules or pay! thats how i see it.

I know I gave you a hard time the other night, seed. But, you are absolutely right on this subject.

I have a situation I am dealing right now too.

That fact of the matter is this: you are requred to have a license for a reason. If you are operating without a license, you are cheapening MY PROFESSION. If you are operating without a license, this is not YOUR PROFESSION. Leave it to the professionals.

It's the principle of the matter to me, not the profit loss.

To the guy that says, "he's just trying to feed his family." What do you think I'm doing? It's unethical to do business without a license. Stop!

SeedPro
04-03-2010, 09:20 PM
i'm gonna have to agree with you Seed, if your required to have a license, then you better have one, there is a reason you need a license to apply chems...follow the rules or pay! thats how i see it.

Thanks JT

hopefully they are better at it in your state than here. we have a VERY illeagal company around here and numerous people have reported them to the state. at a seminar about a month ago one of the inspectors was there and made a comment to me because i was late renewing my license. another contractor that was with me asked what they are going to do to XXX landscaping and his answer was " we are trying to point them in the right direction"

so i asked why bother having a license and paying all the extra money for it and the insurance and all. he didnt answer just changed the subject.

That would be very frustrating. Perhaps they have paid this guy off or something. I think our Ag people are very good. Fair with trying to help out and keep licensed companies and applicators in line, but very firm with companies and applicators that scoff at their rules, and frankly....an unlicensed company like this is a feather in their cap.

I too would be upset, sometimes you have to get over this BS though. It happens to the best of us. I don't know what type of program you run so its hard for me to equate one of our $1000 a year acct to one of yours. We run a monthly program, so if you quarterly or something I would be more upset also. Try to concentrate this next months on sales to make up for the lost acct. We have over 4000 customers, so losing a $1000 isn't the biggest problem we have going. We sold over 81 accts this week alone... What would you do if you had to spend all the extra money to get those customers started... PS, we double app all our new sales... See what i mean lol

Good luck to you, also, chances are the state will just scare em and give ema warning. But hopefully this is enought for you to get your acct back.

Good luck!
-Matt

I only have a little over 200 customers, and another 120 I do for a Lawn Contractor that I sub for so to lose a 1000 a year gig gets my attention. But it's more the principle that the money. We all worked hard to be where we are, and we all spend considerable time, money and energies complying with the rules. I made a couple nice sales today. Few Lawn, one Tree Shrub and a decent 800 dollae machine Seeding job. My retention rate is still at 95% this season but I just had to speak up about this to the right people.

I know I gave you a hard time the other night, seed. But, you are absolutely right on this subject.

I have a situation I am dealing right now too.

That fact of the matter is this: you are requred to have a license for a reason. If you are operating without a license, you are cheapening MY PROFESSION. If you are operating without a license, this is not YOUR PROFESSION. Leave it to the professionals.

It's the principle of the matter to me, not the profit loss.

To the guy that says, "he's just trying to feed his family." What do you think I'm doing? It's unethical to do business without a license. Stop!

Oh I can take the back and forth. I may be rash at times but I tell it like it is. No problem. I think a few of the naysayers in here are just the types that probably do this kind of thing off their mowing rigs because they think it's easy money. And it is.....if you don't have to follow rules, have licenses and come here and get all the info you need to do it.



And to answer a question.....a 1000 dollar job is not hard to fathom. It was five apps at 150 an application with a grub control on an acre. Not every job is that big but my average customer is worth 400 dollars.

betmr
04-03-2010, 10:06 PM
Thanks JT



That would be very frustrating. Perhaps they have paid this guy off or something. I think our Ag people are very good. Fair with trying to help out and keep licensed companies and applicators in line, but very firm with companies and applicators that scoff at their rules, and frankly....an unlicensed company like this is a feather in their cap.



I only have a little over 200 customers, and another 120 I do for a Lawn Contractor that I sub for so to lose a 1000 a year gig gets my attention. But it's more the principle that the money. We all worked hard to be where we are, and we all spend considerable time, money and energies complying with the rules. I made a couple nice sales today. Few Lawn, one Tree Shrub and a decent 800 dollae machine Seeding job. My retention rate is still at 95% this season but I just had to speak up about this to the right people.



Oh I can take the back and forth. I may be rash at times but I tell it like it is. No problem. I think a few of the naysayers in here are just the types that probably do this kind of thing off their mowing rigs because they think it's easy money. And it is.....if you don't have to follow rules, have licenses and come here and get all the info you need to do it.



And to answer a question.....a 1000 dollar job is not hard to fathom. It was five apps at 150 an application with a grub control on an acre. Not every job is that big but my average customer is worth 400 dollars.

You are such a FREEEKIN' hypocrite. Reference thread - apply how long after mowing....

Don't feel sorry for this guy, He probably burnt the ladies Lawn up, & now he's here screaming bloody murder, and whining for some sympathy.

SeedPro
04-03-2010, 10:27 PM
You are such a FREEEKIN' hypocrite. Reference thread - apply how long after mowing....

Don't feel sorry for this guy, He probably burnt the ladies Lawn up, & now he's here screaming bloody murder, and whining for some sympathy.

Give it up Mr. Weed B Gone and quit stalking me here. You totally took what I said out of context in that thread to suit your own ends, and I was treating lawns when you were in diapers.

From the sounds of your posts....maybe you're still wearing diapers.

betmr
04-03-2010, 11:09 PM
Give it up Mr. Weed B Gone and quit stalking me here. You totally took what I said out of context in that thread to suit your own ends, and I was treating lawns when you were in diapers.

From the sounds of your posts....maybe you're still wearing diapers.

You are so transparent, and you assume many things about others. I might have raised your father, Diapers indeed, but that's not important. As a matter of fact, While you've been crying here all day, I've been out sprayin' Chaser, and Kleen Up Pro-spiked. Oh and did I mention, I did it all according to the Labels, man don't that burn ya' ? No, it's probably just lawns you burn, 'Cause you have no use for labels...Mow it spray it, and if that don't work, spray it some more, That's how we did it in the good ol' days, Right. We don't need no stinking Labels, that's "Just to protect the Manufacturer's", Right. And now......Here you sit, poor pitiful you, talking about rules & regulations, and how your AG people are so good at keeping the licensed applicators in line, and how you're gonna sick 'em on the mean bad man who took your client away, so you can try to move back in....Hey, I got an idea:rolleyes:....make her a better offer....or have you tried that already, and found that she just don't want you?:cry:... I mean a big account like that, I'm sure you could undercut the new guy a little, and if she were happy with you she would jump right on that .....Right?:laugh:

To me, you are like...:laughing:...Laughable. Go ahead, prove she liked your service, go make a lower offer, let's see what happens.

SeedPro
04-03-2010, 11:28 PM
You are so transparent, and you assume many things about others. I might have raised your father, Diapers indeed, but that's not important. As a matter of fact, While you've been crying here all day, I've been out sprayin' Chaser, and Kleen Up Pro-spiked. Oh and did I mention, I did it all according to the Labels, man don't that burn ya' ? No, it's probably just lawns you burn, 'Cause you have no use for labels...Mow it spray it, and if that don't work, spray it some more, That's how we did it in the good ol' days, Right. We don't need no stinking Labels, that's "Just to protect the Manufacturer's", Right. And now......Here you sit, poor pitiful you, talking about rules & regulations, and how your AG people are so good at keeping the licensed applicators in line, and how you're gonna sick 'em on the mean bad man who took your client away, so you can try to move back in....Hey, I got an idea:rolleyes:....make her a better offer....or have you tried that already, and found that she just don't want you?:cry:... I mean a big account like that, I'm sure you could undercut the new guy a little, and if she were happy with you she would jump right on that .....Right?:laugh:

To me, you are like...:laughing:...Laughable. Go ahead, prove she liked your service, go make a lower offer, let's see what happens.

I don't lowball like you do. Sorry. And to turn the other cheek on something like unlicensed operators doing this work is to do a dis service to the entire legitimate business community and industry.

I really got under your skin. Didn't I.

:)

betmr
04-03-2010, 11:46 PM
I don't lowball like you do. Sorry. And to turn the other cheek on something like unlicensed operators doing this work is to do a dis service to the entire legitimate business community and industry.

I really got under your skin. Didn't I.

:)

There you go assuming things about people again. I don't have to low ball, I have steady work, steady income, pension and all the Bennie's I could ask for. And actually it's called bidding. It's not you under my skin, It's your Hypocrisy. All "The heck with the law, and the Label" last night, tonight it's all "Where's the Law when you need 'em" I think your so phony, that's all.

Young Bros
04-07-2010, 11:10 PM
I put in a bid for 2 locations in 2 towns total of 7.25 acres. Some tool loads up 24D in a boom and does it illegal for $250!!! I wish the illegal bastards would die!!!
:hammerhead:

SeedPro
04-07-2010, 11:22 PM
I put in a bid for 2 locations in 2 towns total of 7.25 acres. Some tool loads up 24D in a boom and does it illegal for $250!!! I wish the illegal bastards would die!!!
:hammerhead:

I got a nice email back from our AG inspector, and she says she is looking into it but is spread thinner than ever now with state cutbacks and rarely see's them on the road.

But I still did the right thing.


Lost a new sale that I bid on to a landscaper thats going to do it all. They liked me...had the courtesy to call and tell me the outcome, but want it all under one roof for their convenience.

The company that's doing it isn't licensed either.

Just another mowing hack doing pesticide apps without a license.

Cummins343
04-07-2010, 11:26 PM
Times are hard, people are desperate. Personally I wouldn't turn them in, but hey, that's just me. I don't like being labeled a snitch.

SeedPro
04-07-2010, 11:28 PM
Times are hard, people are desperate. Personally I wouldn't turn them in, but hey, that's just me. I don't like being labeled a snitch.

No offense but firefighters are the worst offenders.

Every damned fireman I know does lawn care "on the side" and under the table.

Cummins343
04-07-2010, 11:31 PM
No offense but firefighters are the worst offenders.

Every damned fireman I know does lawn care "on the side" and under the table.Ok.................does that mean I do it?

SeedPro
04-07-2010, 11:33 PM
Ok.................does that mean I do it?

Of course you don't.


:cool2:

Cummins343
04-07-2010, 11:35 PM
Of course you don't.


:cool2:I'm glad were on the same page now.:waving:

betmr
04-07-2010, 11:45 PM
Ol' SeedPro seems to know all the people who, do and don't have pesticide licenses??? For all he knows, the Landscape guy may have a friend in the chem business that he's subbing out to, cheaper & perhaps better, than the ol' Seed will do it.

Runner
04-08-2010, 03:00 PM
No offense but firefighters are the worst offenders.

Every damned fireman I know does lawn care "on the side" and under the table.

Hey! I resemble that remark! :rolleyes:

SharpLawnCare
04-08-2010, 03:16 PM
seed pro what part of MI are you from?

Frank Fescue
04-08-2010, 07:44 PM
licenses are just ways for the government (aka the bilderberg group) to steal money. i consider myself supremely educated when it comes to lawn care practices. i've managed to maximize profit and minimize costs financially as well as to the environment. regular water and food coloring is a good "weed control" i tend to give it fancy names. my dandelion control is called "last rights" and i advertise it as safe because theres no actual pesticides. at night i'll return and hand pick some weeds to show that its working or i'll call scotts/chemlawn/lawn dr and pretend im the homeowner and that i need a lawn service. if the customer isnt home they'll treat and then knock back the weeds at very little cost to my bottom line. i can charge as little as $15 a lawn to make a reasonable profit but i usually charge triple that for most residential lawns.

GrassIsGreenerLawnCare
04-16-2010, 03:36 AM
haha thats awesome frank. i was spot spraying round up on one of my customers weeds becaue she asked me to. she even had the round up for me. But someone on here told me i needed a license to even do that. So i will not even do that anymore. Alot of companies around here wont even get mowing licenses until they are 2-3 years deep into business. This is my first year and i am licensed+insured. I didnt even wanna take a chance at losing the very few things that i own just to skimp out on a little license. But i dont see the point of someone like me to go and spend a bunch of money on a spraying license if i spot spray round up but 3 times a year! Maybe when im offered some good money for applications i will check into getting a license but for now i wont even spray anything but my own yard

JDUtah
04-16-2010, 07:42 AM
Turning him in doesn't make you a snitch. It makes you honest. And him.

If an employee was embezzling money form your company what would you do? Illegal applicators are doing similar things and deserve what they are risking.