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Turfdoctor1
04-13-2010, 11:37 PM
A customer asked me to spray Roundup on 60 empty lots. All in the same subdivsion, flat, etc. I have already priced the work, and have gotten the go ahead to do so. Just wondering what everyone else would have priced a job like this.

I think I am getting a pretty darn good deal.

grassman177
04-13-2010, 11:51 PM
somewhere in the ballpark of $1500.00 giove or take a few hundred

Runner
04-14-2010, 02:26 AM
It could be done for that - relatively easy. Your product (at an upper rate), sticker, fuel, and some wear and tear on the machine will be a bit under 5 bucks per lot (based on approx. 11M lots). Sounds like a good little gig, and not a bad day.

indyturf
04-14-2010, 02:46 AM
$1500 sounds about right.

Grandview
04-14-2010, 03:23 AM
2500.00 to 3000.00 would be closer to my price. 50.00/Lot would not be out of line. It is 60 different locations. Can you do them all in a day?

lawn king
04-14-2010, 06:34 AM
2500.00 to 3000.00 would be closer to my price. 50.00/Lot would not be out of line. It is 60 different locations. Can you do them all in a day?

Agreed! $1500. is dirt cheap for that job.

EquityGreen
04-14-2010, 08:55 AM
Not many guys here spray Roudn Up, we can charge 10-15 per 1,000. Obviously that is a way bigger job and should be done cheaper. Sounds like an ok price if you dont have alot going on... Nice Work sir

VARMIT COMMISSION
04-14-2010, 08:59 AM
$2500.00 would be my price. But with generic round-up at $9.50 a gallon I might have some wiggle room to come down a bit.

phasthound
04-14-2010, 09:43 AM
Adding one once of 12% liquid humate to 10 gal of water will allow you to reduce the mixing rate of glyphosate by at least 25% and still get the same effective kill as full rate.

Grandview
04-14-2010, 09:49 AM
Adding one once of 12% liquid humate to 10 gal of water will allow you to reduce the mixing rate of glyphosate by at least 25% and still get the same effective kill as full rate.

I do not recall seeing that on any glyphosate label.

tigerfan88
04-14-2010, 01:59 PM
:laugh:!!!!

Ric
04-14-2010, 03:08 PM
Adding one once of 12% liquid humate to 10 gal of water will allow you to reduce the mixing rate of glyphosate by at least 25% and still get the same effective kill as full rate.

I do not recall seeing that on any glyphosate label.

Grandview


ONE ONCE OF 12% LIQUID HUMATE must do some amazing things.

phasthound
04-14-2010, 08:10 PM
Grandview


ONE ONCE OF 12% LIQUID HUMATE must do some amazing things.

Grandview, nope you will not see that on a label. Why would they tell you how to buy less of thier product?
Ric, I had an extra beer when I misspelled ounce. :)

And yes humates can do some amazing things; like improve nutrient uptake, increase drought tolerance, improve soil structure, enhance plant immune systems. And improve uptake of any systemic pesticides, which means you can get the same results at lower rates by adding humates.

RigglePLC
04-14-2010, 09:16 PM
You should probably charge more like 3200. Empty lot is a little vague. Is this bare dirt--of course not--so how tall are the weeds? 6 inches or 6 feet? I am thinking this is not a job for Z-spray or Permagreen. Skid spray and hose. So how rough are the lots? Trees? Bushes? Thistle? Bamboo? Poison ivy? Will it take more time or less time than your average 15,000 sqft lot? (silly question--more--of course). What is guarantee? How many times will you have to come back and repeat spray? What about public perception of big dead areas? What about erosion due to bare soil? Wouldn't this be better if you applied Lesco Three-way--so that the weeds would be killed but the grass would remain and hold the soil. Why exactly does he want it sprayed? Will he pay you on time? Sorry to be pessimistic.

SeedPro
04-14-2010, 09:19 PM
Grandview, nope you will not see that on a label. Why would they tell you how to buy less of thier product?
Ric, I had an extra beer when I misspelled ounce. :)

And yes humates can do some amazing things; like improve nutrient uptake, increase drought tolerance, improve soil structure, enhance plant immune systems. And improve uptake of any systemic pesticides, which means you can get the same results at lower rates by adding humates.

Not to mention that they will improve the size of your bank roll since you just happen to sell humates.

:)

:waving:

phasthound
04-14-2010, 10:03 PM
Not to mention that they will improve the size of your bank roll since you just happen to sell humates.

:)

:waving:

Guilty, but I don't just happen to sell humates . There are reasons why I sell the products I do. They work, they are cost effective and they reduce the amounts of pesticides introduced into our drinking water.

CHARLES CUE
04-14-2010, 10:31 PM
You should probably charge more like 3200. Empty lot is a little vague. Is this bare dirt--of course not--so how tall are the weeds? 6 inches or 6 feet? I am thinking this is not a job for Z-spray or Permagreen. Skid spray and hose. So how rough are the lots? Trees? Bushes? Thistle? Bamboo? Poison ivy? Will it take more time or less time than your average 15,000 sqft lot? (silly question--more--of course). What is guarantee? How many times will you have to come back and repeat spray? What about public perception of big dead areas? What about erosion due to bare soil? Wouldn't this be better if you applied Lesco Three-way--so that the weeds would be killed but the grass would remain and hold the soil. Why exactly does he want it sprayed? Will he pay you on time? Sorry to be pessimistic.

Good thinking i guess thats why you should look at a job not just bid on it on the Internet
Charles Cue

Ric
04-14-2010, 10:34 PM
Slow Dog

If you can't drink with the Big Dogs, Best you stay under the porch. But that is the lamest excuse for a typo that I have heard. Heck I make Typos all the time not to say my English Grammar isn't the worlds worst.




You should probably charge more like 3200. Empty lot is a little vague. Is this bare dirt--of course not--so how tall are the weeds? 6 inches or 6 feet? I am thinking this is not a job for Z-spray or Permagreen. Skid spray and hose. So how rough are the lots? Trees? Bushes? Thistle? Bamboo? Poison ivy? Will it take more time or less time than your average 15,000 sqft lot? (silly question--more--of course). What is guarantee? How many times will you have to come back and repeat spray? What about public perception of big dead areas? What about erosion due to bare soil? Wouldn't this be better if you applied Lesco Three-way--so that the weeds would be killed but the grass would remain and hold the soil. Why exactly does he want it sprayed? Will he pay you on time? Sorry to be pessimistic.

Riggle

You bring up some very good points. Because these are lots in the same neighbor I am going to assume this is Chemical Mowing. Local market conditions might come into play on the price. I know my area has 15% unemployment and we haven't seen an Ag inspector in several years. 41% Generic Roundup cost is $ 35 for a 2.5 gallon jug. Our Warm Season utility grasses like Bahia and Bermuda take multiply treatments of high concentrate Roundup to kill them. Therefore Erosion control really isn't an issue when chemical mowing with Roundup. Throw in some 2-4,D for the Poison Ivy and reduce the amount of Roundup to keep costs down. You can't make any money at $ 1500 but some one could make wages.

Remember these association love to hire unlicensed people if they think they can save a buck. I ran into one several years back who approached while I was doing his neighbor's yard. He told me he would pay cash money, didn't want an invoice and would never tell my boss. So I charged him 50% more and never told him I am THE BOSS. To me he is stealing just as much if not more than the Spray Tech who would pocket the money instead of turning it in.




BTW I am doing several Total kill jobs for a LS Member who will be Slit Seeding Bermuda. Because I wanted a good kill and knew I could or would miss some spots, I added Scythe to my mix. I sprayed yesterday for the first time and will go back in a day or two to touch up any misses etc. Because Bahia is so hard to kill, in about two weeks I will respray the area again. I priced using Roundup Quick and Razor Burn, and found Scythe and Generic Roundup to be less the half the chemical cost. However because Roundup Quick and Razor Burn are Idiot proof or close to it, Most Suppliers have stopped carrying Scythe.

CHARLES CUE
04-14-2010, 11:03 PM
When i do a total kill on a lawn i do half rate in 2 directions takes longer but so does going back and respraying
Charles Cue

Turfdoctor1
04-14-2010, 11:50 PM
Slow Dog

If you can't drink with the Big Dogs, Best you stay under the porch. But that is the lamest excuse for a typo that I have heard. Heck I make Typos all the time not to say my English Grammar isn't the worlds worst.






Riggle

You bring up some very good points. Because these are lots in the same neighbor I am going to assume this is Chemical Mowing. Local market conditions might come into play on the price. I know my area has 15% unemployment and we haven't seen an Ag inspector in several years. 41% Generic Roundup cost is $ 35 for a 2.5 gallon jug. Our Warm Season utility grasses like Bahia and Bermuda take multiply treatments of high concentrate Roundup to kill them. Therefore Erosion control really isn't an issue when chemical mowing with Roundup. Throw in some 2-4,D for the Poison Ivy and reduce the amount of Roundup to keep costs down. You can't make any money at $ 1500 but some one could make wages.

Remember these association love to hire unlicensed people if they think they can save a buck. I ran into one several years back who approached while I was doing his neighbor's yard. He told me he would pay cash money, didn't want an invoice and would never tell my boss. So I charged him 50% more and never told him I am THE BOSS. To me he is stealing just as much if not more than the Spray Tech who would pocket the money instead of turning it in.




BTW I am doing several Total kill jobs for a LS Member who will be Slit Seeding Bermuda. Because I wanted a good kill and knew I could or would miss some spots, I added Scythe to my mix. I sprayed yesterday for the first time and will go back in a day or two to touch up any misses etc. Because Bahia is so hard to kill, in about two weeks I will respray the area again. I priced using Roundup Quick and Razor Burn, and found Scythe and Generic Roundup to be less the half the chemical cost. However because Roundup Quick and Razor Burn are Idiot proof or close to it, Most Suppliers have stopped carrying Scythe.

Ric,

You nailed it. this is a chemical mowing. The guy is just trying to save on his mowing costs over the summer. Costs him $1200 to mow it, if we can kill the weeds and fescue and slow down the bermuda he will be happy.

I bid it at $2025. Each lot is really about 9K-11K. So, really closer to 14 acres, but I bid it as 15 at $135 per.

Should be an easy job, flat, no trees, all right next to each other, and owner paid me to spray another 4 acres within a week of treatment.

SeedPro
04-14-2010, 11:58 PM
Guilty, but I don't just happen to sell humates . There are reasons why I sell the products I do. They work, they are cost effective and they reduce the amounts of pesticides introduced into our drinking water.

The why don't you give them away.

You have no sense of humor at all man.

Lighten up.

lawn king
04-15-2010, 07:07 AM
This app sounds like a tractor/boom sprayer job, although the information we have on it is vauge/

Ric
04-15-2010, 11:23 AM
Ric,

You nailed it. this is a chemical mowing. The guy is just trying to save on his mowing costs over the summer. Costs him $1200 to mow it, if we can kill the weeds and fescue and slow down the bermuda he will be happy.

I bid it at $2025. Each lot is really about 9K-11K. So, really closer to 14 acres, but I bid it as 15 at $135 per.

Should be an easy job, flat, no trees, all right next to each other, and owner paid me to spray another 4 acres within a week of treatment.

Turf

Agriculture has been using Chemical mowing for well over 40 years. It is just now that Government is starting to use it on Road and Right Away because of serious budget cuts. 10 years ago and then again about 3 years ago I approached our County about doing Chemical Mowing and mowing at about 1/2 their present cost. Couple of months ago IFAS had a seminar on Chemical Mowing Road sides for county officials. Our Road sides haven't been mowed in 6 months and the weeds are 36 " tall. The county just put the contract up for bid for the 3rd time because no one bid it low enough. However like all Government run operations, Chemical Mowing is not part of the Bid.

Chemical Mowing is a market that is worth looking into. There is a lot more Utility Turf than Fine turf to be managed. BTW Plateau (Imazapic) is the Chemical of choice for Chemical mowing here in the South. However it is very expensive to buy, but only a $ 7 per year per acre cost.

humble1
04-18-2010, 06:42 PM
I do not recall seeing that on any glyphosate label.

not to mention but under applying under the labeled rate is a misapplication and you can get fined for that.

phasthound
04-18-2010, 07:48 PM
not to mention but under applying under the labeled rate is a misapplication and you can get fined for that.

Can you please document that for me? It's been my understanding in over 30 years as a licensed pesticide applicator for turf & woody ornamentals that only applications exceeding the labeled rate was a violation. If something can be controlled at a lower rate, that is a legal application.

SeedPro
04-18-2010, 08:39 PM
Can you please document that for me? It's been my understanding in over 30 years as a licensed pesticide applicator for turf & woody ornamentals that only applications exceeding the labeled rate was a violation. If something can be controlled at a lower rate, that is a legal application.

Thank you. I have already had this argument here with people and these new kids just want to make it sound like they know everything because all they heard was the label is the law.

Give them time.....they are still new and just don't know any better.

humble1
04-18-2010, 08:56 PM
Can you please document that for me? It's been my understanding in over 30 years as a licensed pesticide applicator for turf & woody ornamentals that only applications exceeding the labeled rate was a violation. If something can be controlled at a lower rate, that is a legal application.

In 30 years you didn't learn that the label is the law? I bet you have some great work out there..

The labeled rate is what is approved for application by the epa as well as the state that the product is registered in. When you alter that rate whether it is above or below then it is considered an illegal application, because it is considered off label. Off label is when you go above, off label is going below as well

Don't throw out the 30 years thing at me as though it automatically makes you "the authority" I know a mechanic that has been in buisness for over 30 years he still can't work on any of those new fangled cars. Buisness has been slow since they got rid of caps and rotors.

humble1
04-18-2010, 09:01 PM
Thank you. I have already had this argument here with people and these new kids just want to make it sound like they know everything because all they heard was the label is the law.

Give them time.....they are still new and just don't know any better.

Still new you have been in buisness 1 to 5 years on your profile...

I have spent that much time waiting in line at lesco over 20 years.

If all you do is fert and weed control, how could you not understand that the label is the law.?

phasthound
04-18-2010, 09:17 PM
In 30 years you din't learn that the label is the law? I bet you have some great work out there..

The labeled rate is what is approved for application by the epa as well as the state that the product is registered in. When you alter that rate whether it is above or below then it is considered an illegal application, because it is considered off label. Off label is when you go above, off label is going below as well

Don't throw out the 30 years thing at me as though it automatically makes you "the authority" I know a mechanic that has been in buisness for over 30 years he still can't work on any of those new fangled cars. Buisness has been slow since they got rid of caps and rotors.

Yes, I understand the label is the law. It is my understanding that the label rate is the maximum allowed. I have always been told by Federal and State regulators that lower rates are acceptable and preferred. It has also been explained to me that off label uses refer to going over the labeled rates and/or treating pests not listed on the label. Exceptions can be made for off label usage when properly applied for. I have done so in the past.

I certainly could be wrong and will inquire with the proper authorities for clarification. I'll be glad to post the information I receive.

BTW, calling anyone Hitler and the aniti-Chirst in your signature line is absurdly ridiculous.

humble1
04-18-2010, 09:31 PM
03-14-2009 06:50 PMphasthound
I just find your signature line to be way over the top.
How many people have died becasue of Bush's actions?
And then you try to put Obama in the same class as Hitler. Dude, seriously.

Yeah we already covered that..Keep drinking the cool aid.
How is your guy barry the liar doing by the way with all that hope and change.
1) elect me and I will bring the troops home....year and a half later he has sent mor eover
2) the bush administration has spent billions on this war... Obama spent more in 1 year than all of the 8 years of bush actually spent more up to date than the cumulative total of the whole US Gov since inception
3) his aunt still lives illegally in MA housing projects on American tax dollars
4) will be raising taxes
5) forcing americans to buy insurance is that constitutional? the gov isnt' there to force people to buy anything.
6) health insurance just went up on my family plan by $3500 because of all the new regs

Yeah your correct he isnt a liar, a socialist, and soon to be responcible for the demise of this American capitalist society.

Harley-D
04-21-2010, 10:12 AM
Yeah we already covered that..Keep drinking the cool aid.
How is your guy barry the liar doing by the way with all that hope and change.
1) elect me and I will bring the troops home....year and a half later he has sent mor eover
2) the bush administration has spent billions on this war... Obama spent more in 1 year than all of the 8 years of bush actually spent more up to date than the cumulative total of the whole US Gov since inception
3) his aunt still lives illegally in MA housing projects on American tax dollars
4) will be raising taxes
5) forcing americans to buy insurance is that constitutional? the gov isnt' there to force people to buy anything.
6) health insurance just went up on my family plan by $3500 because of all the new regs

My only take on this is that i believe it's better than the rest of us paying for their socialized medicine. Person breaks leg, lies there bleeding, doesn't have insurance. Ambulance picks up, takes to hospital, treats. Person can't pay hospital bills, why can the gov't make us carry car insurance then? You can't drive without it, you shouldn't walk without med ins. That person not being able to pay the high med bills will eventually cost the rest of us more in insurance and hospital bills. I may be way wrong here but this is my take.

phasthound
04-21-2010, 11:20 AM
not to mention but under applying under the labeled rate is a misapplication and you can get fined for that.

I just got off the phone with Joe LaBella at the NJ DEP Pesticide Control Program. He told me unequivocally that there are no restrictions in NJ for making applications under the labeled rate. It may be less effective, but it is not illegal & there are no fines for doing so.

One of Joe's long time responsibilities is conducting this class http://www.nj.gov/dep/enforcement/pcp/bpc-traincourse.htm, which I have taken several times in order to keep current with changing regulations in NJ.

I would urge anyone who has questions about the legal side of pesticide applications to contact the proper person in your state. Don't take anyone else's word, including my own, for interpretation of the law.
In NJ you may contact Joe at 609-984-6901 joseph.labella@dep.state.nj.us
or others listed here http://www.nj.gov/dep/enforcement/pcp/pcp-phone.htm

Ric
04-21-2010, 12:07 PM
I just got off the phone with Joe LaBella at the NJ DEP Pesticide Control Program. He told me unequivocally that there are no restrictions in NJ for making applications under the labeled rate. It may be less effective, but it is not illegal & there are no fines for doing so.

One of Joe's long time responsibilities is conducting this class http://www.nj.gov/dep/enforcement/pcp/bpc-traincourse.htm, which I have taken several times in order to keep current with changing regulations in NJ.

I would urge anyone who has questions about the legal side of pesticide applications to contact the proper person in your state. Don't take anyone else's word, including my own, for interpretation of the law.
In NJ you may contact Joe at 609-984-6901 joseph.labella@dep.state.nj.us
or others listed here http://www.nj.gov/dep/enforcement/pcp/pcp-phone.htm


Slow Dog

Sorry, BUT.

UNDER APPLICATION is wrong because it helps causes RESISTANCES to Active Ingredient.

I really don't care that your State Official is the typical Bureaucratic wage Slave with his head where the sun doesn't shine. Under application is WRONG.

phasthound
04-21-2010, 02:21 PM
Slow Dog

Sorry, BUT.

UNDER APPLICATION is wrong because it helps causes RESISTANCES to Active Ingredient.

I really don't care that your State Official is the typical Bureaucratic wage Slave with his head where the sun doesn't shine. Under application is WRONG.

Ric,
I was replying to humble's post that it was illegal and you could get fined for it. At least in NJ this is not a fact.

Your point is a valid one. No argument from me, except there are exceptions to every rule.

BTW, this particular state official is very level headed with a nice facial tan from being in the sun.

phasthound
04-21-2010, 02:29 PM
And just to satisfied my curiosity, I called the MA Dept of Ag Pesticide Program http://www.mass.gov/agr/pesticides/ for humble & was told that his statement was incorrect. Pesticide applications at lower rates are not illegal in MA, nor will anyone be fined.

Turfdoctor1
04-21-2010, 09:19 PM
thanks for hijacking the thread, humble.

good grief you idiots.

thread closed please. if you want to argue under/over applications, start a new thread. i don't want to be tied to it.