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deerewashed
04-23-2010, 02:33 PM
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=100672171&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_src=64119933&ci_sku=100672171&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googleads&locStoreNum=6204&marketID=191


22HP walkbehind with sulky at hd.....wow that must eat grass.

home depot is really trying to gain respect from pro landscapers.

milike
04-23-2010, 02:36 PM
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=100672171&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_src=64119933&ci_sku=100672171&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googleads&locStoreNum=6204&marketID=191


22HP walkbehind with sulky at hd.....wow that must eat grass.

home depot is really trying to gain respect from pro landscapers.

it is a beast :hammerhead:











.

deerewashed
04-23-2010, 02:40 PM
it is a beast :hammerhead:











.

haha it is probably meant for really fatass homeowners who dont like to :walking:

rcslawncare
04-23-2010, 03:01 PM
Nice, that thing would be trashed in one season.

KarlP
04-23-2010, 03:11 PM
Looks an awful lot like the DEK 36" mower that Sears sells with a 13HP honda.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_07143534000P

MikeKle
04-23-2010, 03:18 PM
Im surprised they put a 22hp on a 36" mower? And they will sell lots of them by having the Subaru engine, HD shoppers really love the "outdoorsy" subaru brand. Did they mention what brand the hydros were, or their size? Just curious

93Chevy
04-23-2010, 03:20 PM
Did you guys read all 2 of the positive reviews? I'm seriously considering this machine for front yards.

bohiaa
04-23-2010, 07:46 PM
I dont like the small wheels on the rear

Richard Martin
04-23-2010, 08:26 PM
Chinese commie mower. DEK assembles Chinese components here in NC.

deerewashed
04-23-2010, 08:44 PM
Did you guys read all 2 of the positive reviews? I'm seriously considering this machine for front yards.

how many front yards you talkin...if well maintained this could last you a good amount of time and by someof your pics you got enoguh room on your trailer for this.

coxslawncare
04-23-2010, 09:08 PM
if you look closely at the picture you can see on the cover for the pulleys that it says it is manufactured by DEK

Stonewellmark
04-23-2010, 09:09 PM
P.O.S. , who ever Home Depot has for buyers should be fired!!!

93Chevy
04-23-2010, 09:23 PM
how many front yards you talkin...if well maintained this could last you a good amount of time and by someof your pics you got enoguh room on your trailer for this.

I was being a little sarcastic. I could fit two full Z mowers with baggers on my trailer plus a 36." My trailer, however, is too full for that mower. I don't need a 36" anyway, my 48" gets everywhere I need it to except for one pool fence, where I bust out the 21"

Knight511
04-23-2010, 10:08 PM
36 inch cut... 40 inch wide mower... fail.

topsites
04-23-2010, 10:28 PM
After my last experience I don't think much of Lowe's / HD anymore,
I use them if or when I really have to, but they don't attract me like they used to.

Long story short, it simply strikes me as if they don't really want my business.

clean_cut
04-23-2010, 10:28 PM
The two reviews are good, but I think I'll stick with my Scag :)

deerewashed
04-24-2010, 09:24 AM
36 inch cut... 40 inch wide mower... fail.

hahahhaha i just pissed myself laughing at this...

jvanvliet
04-24-2010, 10:06 AM
Has anyone actually gone and seen one of these at HD? I mean I haven't, but at that price I'd certainly take a look as opposed to just blowing it off.

I'm also seeing more commercial irrigation products like Hunter PGP rotating sprinklers; mist heads & nozzles. Don't rule the big box stores out they are hungry and so are the manufacturers. Soon we'll see Sthil and Shindaiwa....

Pro-Scapes
04-24-2010, 10:22 AM
Has anyone actually gone and seen one of these at HD? I mean I haven't, but at that price I'd certainly take a look as opposed to just blowing it off.

I'm also seeing more commercial irrigation products like Hunter PGP rotating sprinklers; mist heads & nozzles. Don't rule the big box stores out they are hungry and so are the manufacturers. Soon we'll see Sthil and Shindaiwa....

Maybe but do you understand how long it will take for them to service it should you need it repaired ? Chances are they will be shipping it out to the stihl dealer in your area anyways. Build a good reputation with your dealer and you might just be amazed at the level of service you get. I can drop off simple things in the morning and have them back by lunch usually even mid season

georgiagrass
04-24-2010, 03:29 PM
36 inch cut... 40 inch wide mower... fail.

Now that's funny.

grassman177
04-24-2010, 07:59 PM
Chinese commie mower. DEK assembles Chinese components here in NC.

absolutley what it is, dont buy it for the sake of america. home cheapo is selling out like walmart and the rest of corporate america

N.TX
04-25-2010, 01:42 AM
More impressive then what they normally sell. Not that I would buy it anyways though lol.............................

rcslawncare
04-25-2010, 01:59 AM
I think Stihl has a large enough dealer network that they will never be in big box stores. At least I hope!!!

jvanvliet
04-25-2010, 06:37 PM
Maybe but do you understand how long it will take for them to service it should you need it repaired ? Chances are they will be shipping it out to the stihl dealer in your area anyways. Build a good reputation with your dealer and you might just be amazed at the level of service you get. I can drop off simple things in the morning and have them back by lunch usually even mid season

You are right about the servicing... But you must be married to your dealer, I rarely get my equipment back the same day. That's why I have three and in some cases four of everything.

GordonwJackson
03-11-2011, 06:24 AM
36 inch cut... 40 inch wide mower... fail.

The fully assembled width is 46". 40" refers to the height. The width includes the rubber grass exit chute as required to meet industry specs. The wheel base is less than the deck width, simply fold the grass chute up to get through a 36"+ gate. Uses Peerless hydros. Floating 7 ga. deck. Sulky included.

Richard Martin
03-11-2011, 07:28 AM
Uses Peerless hydros.

Aren't those of a questionable durability? Like as in no one but you and MTD uses them?

GordonwJackson
03-11-2011, 08:12 AM
Aren't those of a questionable durability? Like as in no one but you and MTD uses them?

I do not know who else Peerless sells their hydros to.

GXi's version is an upgraded model of the hydro...it is not interchangeable with their standard hydro. The durability test cycle used by GXi is 800 hours of full-control-deflections to pass a drive component. This is the equivalent of a full speed zero-turn about every 30 feet for 800 hours.

The version of the Peerless hydro utilized has some internal upgrades from their standard product to meet this durability test requirement and survive at 40C ambient conditions.

The attraction to the Peerless design is the hydro pump/motor system is 100% self contained and has no internal gears and there is no oil bath shared with gear components. Just pistons, barrel, valve body, shafts, bearings and oil are inside the casting. This is a closed, sealed system.

This lack of internal gears eliminates the need for filtering. Metal shavings from gear wear are what destroy hydros over time. As gear teeth wear they throw off small metal fragments, requiring more frequent servicing and filtration to survive.

The metal gear particles scratch the barrel surface (causing progressive loss of power from internal oil leaks). As the hydro becomes less efficient from power loss, it generates more heat, and slowly the hydro enters a death spiral until failure (more heat followed by more gear wear and more loss of power...causing more heat...etc.) The lack of gears in the hydro oil is the design element that caught GXi's attention. It prevents the hydro failure death spiral.

GXi has upgraded several internal components and increased cooling 2x over the standard Peerless hydro design. The increased cooling is to address some 2012 and 2013 model year new products.

I hope this answers your questions.

Pennington Lawncare
03-11-2011, 08:30 AM
Dang fellas, you missed the more important new offering from Home Depot http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/BuildLinkToHomeDepot?linktype=product&id=202338861&MERCH=REC-_-product-3-_-100672171-_-202338861-_-N

Lawn Dog2001
03-11-2011, 09:57 AM
Or this http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100672177/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053#BVRRWidgetID

I doubt Id ever take a chance on something like that. But considering what an equivalent Turf Tracer costs, that price is incredible.

hackitdown
03-11-2011, 10:08 AM
And so it begins.

Everyone poked fun at Hyundai in the 1980's. And poked fun at Honda in the 1960's. I won't buy one, but others will.

If history is a guide, the domestic mower manufacturers won't take the threat seriously, and they will point out flaws and cheap parts. While continuing to raise prices. Then some scrub landscapers will buy the cheapass Chinese crap. Then those scrubs will buy more. Then the rest of us will have to buy them to remain competitive.

Only time will tell.

GMLC
03-11-2011, 11:03 AM
absolutley what it is, dont buy it for the sake of america. home cheapo is selling out like walmart and the rest of corporate america

I agree 100%. Call me old school but I like to support my local guys. I also honestly believe there is a quality/performance difference.

GordonwJackson
03-11-2011, 11:21 AM
[ I also honestly believe there is a quality/performance difference.[/QUOTE]


Have you tried the mower out...or seen one to evaluate and kick the tires? ...or is it that you hope there is a quality / performance difference to justify the price difference?

Can you be specific about the shortcomings of the Beast mowers?

Your feedback is appreciated if you have tried the mower.

...the foreign content issue has been addressed exhaustively elsewhere on this site. It is enough to say it is more complicated than the brand on the mower. The big $ are in the engines and hydros, etc.

GMLC
03-11-2011, 11:51 AM
"Have you tried the mower out...or seen one to evaluate and kick the tires? ...or is it that you hope there is a quality / performance difference to justify the price difference?

Can you be specific about the shortcomings of the Beast mowers?

Your feedback is appreciated if you have tried the mower.

...the foreign content issue has been addressed exhaustively elsewhere on this site. It is enough to say it is more complicated than the brand on the mower. The big $ are in the engines and hydros, etc.[/QUOTE]"



If you cant honestly tell the difference in quality/performance by all means buy one and save some money. I wish you the best of luck with it.

GMLC
03-11-2011, 03:17 PM
Gordon I remember you now, don't you work for this mower company?

I want to give you my honest feedback. The engine and hydros are commercial grade but on the lower end. The fit and finish is horrible. Looks like what it is, a mower built for mass production not built for heavy commercial use. The stance is not going to work well on hills and the tires are to small. The deck is very generic and who knows what the cut quality will be but guessing by how much research went into the rest of the machine most likley not good. The handle bars feel like they will break off of the machine and are held on with very small bolts. Very boxy design, again more concern for mass production than strength. So will this machine cut grass? Yes. Will it cut as good as a real commercial mower designed to last and have a superior cut? No way. My conclusion is a turd with a commercial engine and hydros is still a turd. Sorry.
Posted via Mobile Device

GordonwJackson
03-11-2011, 03:38 PM
Gordon I remember you now, don't you work for this mower company?

I want to give you my honest feedback. The engine and hydros are commercial grade but on the lower end. Posted via Mobile Device

Was this based upon actually seeing or driving a Beast mower? A few of your comments seem like you are maybe referring to a different mower. I think if someone reads what you stated and then looks at the mower features you describe, they might scratch their head.

I can say for sure the 62" Beast mower outperforms the 60" Toro on a hill. This is well tested and video taped.

I do work for the company...but hopefully that doesn't change the honesty of your answers.

If your review is based upon an actual review or test of the mower, then I will accept your feedback and let others judge your thoughts by looking at each feature you just described for themselves. If you have never actually seen or driven the mower before, then you should at least be honest to others on this blog.

GMLC
03-11-2011, 03:45 PM
Sorry I should have mentioned it was the 36" walkbehind, visual only didn't drive. Didn't see the 62".
Posted via Mobile Device

GordonwJackson
03-11-2011, 04:14 PM
Sorry I should have mentioned it was the 36" walkbehind, visual only didn't drive. Didn't see the 62".
Posted via Mobile Device

Please tell me more then. When I check the Toro turboforce 36" hydro mower it has 16" drive tires. http://www.toro.com/professional/lce/midsize/tf_fixedhydro/30934.html

The Beast 36" hydro, at $3,399 with floating deck system has 16" drive tires.

What models of 36" hydro mowers have larger drive tires than 16"? How big do you suggest?

There are some physical constarints to tire size when you look at the geometry involved. Our engineers could not fit a tire larger than 16" and accomplish everything else.

GordonwJackson
03-11-2011, 04:51 PM
[
I want to give you my honest feedback. "


Another question...the Toro floating deck models have the frame high above the deck to allow the deck to float. The fixed deck models are lower profile and more streamlined because they don't have to support the floating deck. The BEAST 36" has the same feature since it has a floating deck system. Is this what you mean when you say it looks boxy? Is it that you are comparing a fixed deck 36" to a floating deck 36"?

The Toro 36" hydro floating deck model was discontinued this year so in its size range, there is no direct comparison to that model. can you suggest another that you use as your benchmark as the ideal 36" hydro, floating deck mower for comparison.

With regards to tire size the 54" BEAST walk-behind hydro has 18" tires. You suggest these are not large enough as well? Can you offer me a point of reference on a competig mower you prefer? Thank you. I appreciate your feedback.

nepatsfan
03-11-2011, 05:09 PM
Was this based upon actually seeing or driving a Beast mower? A few of your comments seem like you are maybe referring to a different mower. I think if someone reads what you stated and then looks at the mower features you describe, they might scratch their head.

I can say for sure the 62" Beast mower outperforms the 60" Toro on a hill. This is well tested and video taped.I do work for the company...but hopefully that doesn't change the honesty of your answers.

If your review is based upon an actual review or test of the mower, then I will accept your feedback and let others judge your thoughts by looking at each feature you just described for themselves. If you have never actually seen or driven the mower before, then you should at least be honest to others on this blog.
I would like to see the link for the video and the test results. Who did the testing? Was it done by beast/home depot or someone independant without an interest.

GordonwJackson
03-11-2011, 05:52 PM
I would like to see the link for the video and the test results. Who did the testing? Was it done by beast/home depot or someone independant without an interest.

The testing was done by GXi (with the BEAST 62" mower) with the assistance of an experienced Toro mower operator.

I will see if we can get the video posted.

The Toro had 2 shortcomings that became obvious during testing.

First, the ground clearance versus the rear wheel position on the chassis prevents the Toro from climbing out of a steep ditch. The botom of the mower grounds out as the front wheels work their way up the side of the steep ditch / hill. The BEAST appeared to have lower ground clearance but the relationship of the rear wheels to the bottom of the back of the mower was able to lift the back end out of the way in time to prevent it from grounding out (don't try this without ROPS!).

Second, on steep hills the Toro mower had less torque and was unable to complete the steep climbs. Now let me caution you by saying the climb angles were beyond what the engine warranties would permit anyways...but we know in the real world some operators do climb steep hills.

Going sideways on the hills, both mowers performed about the same...on a hill that was safe to drive. We did not take it to a point of failure because we thought the mowers may roll before they would stop tracking using differential hydro power. The challenge is of course the front casters want to take the mower downhill so differential hydro power is all that keeps it tracking straight. The tracking perfromance is affected by front wheel weight, hydro power, and rear wheel traction.

The Toro operator conceded the hill performance on the BEAST surpassed his Toro. He also said he NEVER goes on hills that steep. He said he would use a string trimmer in a steep ditch or hill before he would ever let an employee do what he just did.

I will see if we can get parts of this posted.

BINKY1902
03-11-2011, 06:56 PM
I'll let you bring a 62" out to me and I'll put it through some tough commercial situations alongside my ZTR, and I'll post a review for all of Lawnsite to see...lol. Seriously though I think the specs are pretty impressive on the 62" mower. This is the only problem though, there is no way to demo the mower to see if we like it. What hydros are on the 62"?

Lugnut
03-12-2011, 09:25 PM
Moral of the story is professionals do not buy from home depot, its homeowners who do. If our mowers breakdown we need a dealer who will fix it in a timely manner, not some half ass warranty where its gonna get shipped off to some repair center either states away or maybe even countries away

GordonwJackson
03-13-2011, 10:12 AM
[QUOTE=Lugnut;3935897]Moral of the story is "

Thank you for your feedback.

GXi carries over $1 million of spare parts in North Carolina at GXi's HQ and these parts ship out generally within 24 hours via FedEx or UPS. GXi's 24 hour fill rate exceeds 95%.

Homedepot.com will soon have all common service parts posted so anyone can buy them on the web...and at very competitive prices as well.

The Beast mower warranty is a competitive full warranty as found on any leading brand of mower...mower by GXi...engine by Kawasaki or Subaru...hydros by Peerless. From GXi, belts, spindles, pulleys, etc. are always in stock. I suspect Kawasaki and Peerless parts are available on a level playing field as all other mower brands.

I looked up GXi service centers in Orange County, NY as stated in your profile. I used zip code 10996 as a sample and found 5 authorized service centers within 50 miles of this zip code. I would hope one is convenient to your location.

Much of the service work can be provided at any Kawsaki or Subaru authorized service center as well. These service centers are being added to GXi's zip code look-up feature on their web site and can add convenience, particularly if the issue is engine related. There are some areas where service centers are few and far between (think west Texas and Wyoming!)

Additionally, you could drop off a Beast mower for service at any Home Depot store and use their service network. Turn around through Home Depot's process is on average about 1 week, admittedly not good enough for many commercial operators. This is being worked on and expect some announcements soon on expedited service work through Home Depot for commercial users. In the mean time, if you wish to use the Home Depot network for convenience, if GXi knows your schedule, we can expedite the service work by making a few phone calls. Everyone knows your expectations are higher than a typical consumer. GXi can also arrange a pick-up and delivery service to your home or place of business.

There is a high level of commitment at GXi and Home Depot to make this process and buying experience work. Admittedly, it is different than going through a dealer. This change has some benefits and some draw-backs. The focus at this end is to ensure the benefits outweigh the draw-backs.

I hope this Beast mower service explanation has helped you understand the level of coverage in place in your particular area. It is maybe a little different than what you thought.

Please keep any feedback coming. :)

nepatsfan
03-13-2011, 10:24 AM
[QUOTE=Lugnut;3935897]Moral of the story is "

Thank you for your feedback.

GXi carries over $1 million of spare parts in North Carolina at GXi's HQ and these parts ship out generally within 24 hours via FedEx or UPS. GXi's 24 hour fill rate exceeds 95%.

Homedepot.com will soon have all common service parts posted so anyone can buy them on the web...and at very competitive prices as well.

The Beast mower warranty is a competitive full warranty as found on any leading brand of mower...mower by GXi...engine by Kawasaki or Subaru...hydros by Peerless. From GXi, belts, spindles, pulleys, etc. are always in stock. I suspect Kawasaki and Peerless parts are available on a level playing field as all other mower brands.

I looked up GXi service centers in Orange County, NY as stated in your profile. I used zip code 10996 as a sample and found 5 authorized service centers within 50 miles of this zip code. I would hope one is convenient to your location.

Much of the service work can be provided at any Kawsaki or Subaru authorized service center as well. These service centers are being added to GXi's zip code look-up feature on their web site and can add convenience, particularly if the issue is engine related. There are some areas where service centers are few and far between (think west Texas and Wyoming!)

Additionally, you could drop off a Beast mower for service at any Home Depot store and use their service network. Turn around through Home Depot's process is on average about 1 week, admittedly not good enough for many commercial operators. This is being worked on and expect some announcements soon on expedited service work through Home Depot for commercial users. In the mean time, if you wish to use the Home Depot network for convenience, if GXi knows your schedule, we can expedite the service work by making a few phone calls. Everyone knows your expectations are higher than a typical consumer. GXi can also arrange a pick-up and delivery service to your home or place of business.

There is a high level of commitment at GXi and Home Depot to make this process and buying experience work. Admittedly, it is different than going through a dealer. This change has some benefits and some draw-backs. The focus at this end is to ensure the benefits outweigh the draw-backs.

I hope this Beast mower service explanation has helped you understand the level of coverage in place in your particular area. It is maybe a little different than what you thought.

Please keep any feedback coming. :)


Lets see that video Gordon. Why wouldn't home depot have the mowers in the stores available to look over and demo? Are bagging systems available for these mowers?

GordonwJackson
03-13-2011, 10:37 AM
[QUOTE=GordonwJackson;3936315]


Lets see that video Gordon. Why wouldn't home depot have the mowers in the stores available to look over and demo? Are bagging systems available for these mowers?

I will follow-up on the video Monday. I do not think it can be posted on this site or referred to on this site since I am a manufacturer. There are some policies that prevent this. I will investigate and see what can be done.

Currently about 90 Home Depot stores have Beast mowers in stock. Almost all stores with mowers in stock are in the southeast. Any Home Depot store in the USA / Hawaii / Alaska will stock them if they get requests at the store. About 3 stores per week are bringing mowers into their stores by customer request. It seems most customers are buying 2 at a time. Maybe they had budgeted $10k for a mower so they buy 2 similar $5 mowers? The roll-out is limited by supply (they are selling fast) and a desire for all to make sure buyers are well served and happy. About 200 Home Depot associates have gone through training and hands-on testing of the mowers so far. More training is scheduled for the coming year.

If you are interested, please request your local store bring some mowers in so you can test them. Also, you can buy and if not 100% happy, you can return within 30 days. This is a great idea for something like the 36" hydro walk behind with a floating deck and sulky included (22hp Subaru). If you don't have a similar mower already, you will really like it. It is worth a test! It runs really nicely and the feedback from even the most brand loyal customers has been positive.

GordonwJackson
03-13-2011, 10:40 AM
[QUOTE=GordonwJackson;3936315]


Are bagging systems available for these mowers?


At this time only side discharge and mulching systems are available. Bagging systems are scheduled for 2012.

GordonwJackson
03-13-2011, 11:16 AM
[QUOTE=GordonwJackson;3936315]

Why wouldn't home depot have the mowers in the stores available to look over and demo?

Why are the # of stores limited currently?

I guess something I overlooked explaining was the "fill rate" expectation at a large retail store is very high. While a local dealer may be OK with being out of stock for a while on a certain model, particularly in the peak season, large retailers have a very low tolerance for this...and they have plenty of leverage. They expect replenishment mowers to arrive in just a few days...with no excuses. GXi operates on a 48 hour turn-around schedule. For this reason, the store count with mowers in stock must be aligned with available inventory and the sell-through rate. It would be an OK dealer practice to send a couple mower to hundreds of dealers and then replenish a month later. This approach is not accepted at retail. A suppliers' responsiveness to replace a sold mower through their system is a key measurement of success at large retailers. This is one of the many operational differences between the distributor/dealer channel and the retail channel.

That being said, ".com" orders take top priority all the time. Anybody, including yourself, can bypass the store allocation process via two methods: First, request a demo mower at your store...they will listen and respond to the voice of a customer and re-allocate accordingly. Second, buy online and have it delivered to your home...these orders take top priority. This is true not just for mowers but for most products sold through large retailers.

flatlander42
03-13-2011, 11:48 AM
waiting for the vids too....if they wont let you post them...pm the link to somebody and let them post it.


[QUOTE=nepatsfan;3936328]

I will follow-up on the video Monday. I do not think it can be posted on this site or referred to on this site since I am a manufacturer. There are some policies that prevent this. I will investigate and see what can be done.

Currently about 90 Home Depot stores have Beast mowers in stock. Almost all stores with mowers in stock are in the southeast. Any Home Depot store in the USA / Hawaii / Alaska will stock them if they get requests at the store. About 3 stores per week are bringing mowers into their stores by customer request. It seems most customers are buying 2 at a time. Maybe they had budgeted $10k for a mower so they buy 2 similar $5 mowers? The roll-out is limited by supply (they are selling fast) and a desire for all to make sure buyers are well served and happy. About 200 Home Depot associates have gone through training and hands-on testing of the mowers so far. More training is scheduled for the coming year.

If you are interested, please request your local store bring some mowers in so you can test them. Also, you can buy and if not 100% happy, you can return within 30 days. This is a great idea for something like the 36" hydro walk behind with a floating deck and sulky included (22hp Subaru). If you don't have a similar mower already, you will really like it. It is worth a test! It runs really nicely and the feedback from even the most brand loyal customers has been positive.

GMLC
03-14-2011, 10:08 AM
Gordon, your a business man flying all over the world meeting VIP's and executives.

Where do you buy your suits?

Did you know Target sells suits for $99.99! Target suits are 100% wool, same pattern as the name brand suits like Brooks Brothers and Calvin Klein, same thread count, same buttons, same measurements, made at the same sweat shop in Thailand, the same looking (maybe even exact) suit for less than half the price! You could buy more than three suits at Target for the price of one name brand suit.

I would never expect a business man to buy a suit from Target. Please don't expect a lawn care professional to buy a mower from Home Depot.

GordonwJackson
03-14-2011, 04:02 PM
Gordon, your a business man flying all over the world meeting VIP's and executives.

Where do you buy your suits?

Did you know Target sells suits for $99.99! .


ha ha ha! ...haven't worn a suit to work...ever! Your point is understood though.

Thank you for your thoughts. Buying a commercial mower from a mass retailer may not appeal to all, or even most, commercial mower buyers. The dealers serve an important role in this industry. Nobody is denying that. I suspect the majority of commercial mowers will continue to be sold through dealers for many many years to come.

Some buyers may be happy to purchase a commercial mower from a mass retail outlet (actually we are backlogged, so the response over the past few years has been good). Reasons why they decide to puchase through a mass channel may differ. Buying habits are different by demographic group and geographic parts of this country.

With the BEAST mowers at Home Depot, we simply are offering consumers a choice. The costs to deliver a mower through this channel are a little lower than through a distributor / dealer channel. Those savings are passed on to the consumer, but the service level does not compare with the best servicing dealers in this country.

Some buyers are high-end DIY'ers, some are new entrants to the landscaping business, some are less brand loyal pros, and some are early adopters that have been in the pro business a long time. I am quite sure if there are problems with these mowers or their parts and service...you will hear about it on this web site! One common thread here at Lawnsite.com is nobody holds back! :)

Nobody is upset or offended by mower buyers purchasing a mower from their favorite local dealer. Nobody is telling you where to buy. It is completely your choice. If some day you think the value proposition at a mass retailer is strong enough...you will either try it yourself...or you will challenge your favorite local dealer to become more competitive.

This is what America is all about! Competition is good and healthy. Everyone benefits. Maybe some pressure on price from competing sales channels will force some dealers to raise the bar on customer service to further differentiate themselves. Or maybe they will reduce their prices a little to narrow the gap. Regardless, you as a consumer will win.

Similarly, Home Depot and GXi know that after sales service is a key area of interest for buyers and we are not sitting still. You will see much more on this aspect of the BEAST program shortly.

Thank you for your feedback.

rwaters
03-14-2011, 04:10 PM
I have a few questions most people are not asking.

I have never seen a peerless commercial grade pumps on a ztr is this a pump and wheel motor system or an integrated drive system?

Also why the 62" deck I am guessing you are not using standard Oregon blades with this mower.

GordonwJackson
03-14-2011, 04:33 PM
I have a few questions most people are not asking.

I have never seen a peerless commercial grade pumps on a ztr is this a pump and wheel motor system or an integrated drive system?

Also why the 62" deck I am guessing you are not using standard Oregon blades with this mower.


Excellent questions.

GXi is using neither. An upgraded pump / motor system without any gear reducer is being used. The pump and motor share the same oil bath and resevoir but there are no gears inside the casting. This keeps the oil free of metal fragments caused by gear wear. All the components used in this system are identical to the pumps and wheel motor components, they are just packaged in one compact casting that is sealed to prevent contamination. There is an oil expansion chamber and resevoir. They are cooled by a new fan system that offers 2x cooling over the Peerless standard. This allows future hydro power upgrades.

The gear reduction is contained within the hubs of the wheels.

There is nothing magical about the selection of a 62" deck cut width.

The 31hp Kawasaki FX engine was chosen to ensure the mower was not underpowered. The 22hp Subaru is an awesome engine and was used for much of the initial testing a few years ago. The 62" was slightly underpowered with this combination (think 8" long grass while going up hill!). The 22hp Subaru is the engine on the 54" BEAST mower. The technicians like the Subaru a lot. They are amazing engines.

The 22hp Subaru is also used on all of the BEAST walk behinds and the 100" tow behind mower.

rwaters
03-14-2011, 04:48 PM
ok so would your customers have to order blades from you as nobody else uses them?

DocClark
03-14-2011, 05:08 PM
I appreciate the candid feedback about this mower Gordon. I am looking for 36" WB for my business. I need a backup in case my Ferris goes down. Where can I demo one of these in the Pacific Northeest for a couple days this season to see how well the cut is and if it will handle the terrain here?

horsequick
03-15-2011, 10:54 AM
Yeah that appears to be the exact mower as the DEK that Northern Tool sells. Nice looking mower and the power on a 36" looks great.

Huling
03-16-2011, 12:58 PM
ha ha ha! ...haven't worn a suit to work...ever! Your point is understood though.

Thank you for your thoughts. Buying a commercial mower from a mass retailer may not appeal to all, or even most, commercial mower buyers. The dealers serve an important role in this industry. Nobody is denying that. I suspect the majority of commercial mowers will continue to be sold through dealers for many many years to come.

Some buyers may be happy to purchase a commercial mower from a mass retail outlet (actually we are backlogged, so the response over the past few years has been good). Reasons why they decide to puchase through a mass channel may differ. Buying habits are different by demographic group and geographic parts of this country.

With the BEAST mowers at Home Depot, we simply are offering consumers a choice. The costs to deliver a mower through this channel are a little lower than through a distributor / dealer channel. Those savings are passed on to the consumer, but the service level does not compare with the best servicing dealers in this country.

Some buyers are high-end DIY'ers, some are new entrants to the landscaping business, some are less brand loyal pros, and some are early adopters that have been in the pro business a long time. I am quite sure if there are problems with these mowers or their parts and service...you will hear about it on this web site! One common thread here at Lawnsite.com is nobody holds back! :)

Nobody is upset or offended by mower buyers purchasing a mower from their favorite local dealer. Nobody is telling you where to buy. It is completely your choice. If some day you think the value proposition at a mass retailer is strong enough...you will either try it yourself...or you will challenge your favorite local dealer to become more competitive.

This is what America is all about! Competition is good and healthy. Everyone benefits. Maybe some pressure on price from competing sales channels will force some dealers to raise the bar on customer service to further differentiate themselves. Or maybe they will reduce their prices a little to narrow the gap. Regardless, you as a consumer will win.

Similarly, Home Depot and GXi know that after sales service is a key area of interest for buyers and we are not sitting still. You will see much more on this aspect of the BEAST program shortly.

Thank you for your feedback.

Gordon, does GXi have a website? Very professional the way you have answered all questions.

GordonwJackson
03-16-2011, 01:13 PM
Gordon, does GXi have a website? Very professional the way you have answered all questions.

Yes, GXi has a web site for BEAST products. If you google BEAST Power equipment you can find it. The moderators on this site do not allow links from manufacturers in these threads.

ncknaklawns
03-16-2011, 05:22 PM
What are the ground speeds, didn't see them listed? sorry found it 10mph

capetrees
03-26-2011, 06:44 PM
Gordon,
You're really starting to sell me on the machine. I don't buy into the "pros don't buy from Home Depot" mentality. Pros buy machines by what they are composed of. Kawasaki, Subaru and Honda are all pro names and these motors are all pro line. The peerless trans. are used on many different mowers. I do like the way you've answered all the nay sayers and if I had access to a machine, I'd try it out immediately. You mentioned a 30 day return if not satisfied? Is that the same for the brush mower version of the Beast line? I have a few jobs to try one on and, as you say, if i'm not satisfied, I take it back tothe local HD.

Huling
03-26-2011, 08:51 PM
Yes, GXi has a web site for BEAST products. If you google BEAST Power equipment you can find it. The moderators on this site do not allow links from manufacturers in these threads.

Thanks Gordon for your response. I looked at the websight and the manual and am interestedin, when they are shipped to you, how much assembly is required? Too, do you have to have a fork lift or other type device to unload them. I don't want some guy showing up with an 18 wheeler with a 1000 lb. plus mower in a box saying " I got it here... now it is yours.

tradeyouraccounts
03-26-2011, 08:57 PM
I would drive the extra miles to get to Lowe's, Lowe's Staff seem more knowledgable and know where items are located in the store rather than being sent on a wild goose chase.

GrassesGuy
03-26-2011, 09:04 PM
I would drive the extra miles to get to Lowe's, Lowe's Staff seem more knowledgable and know where items are located in the store rather than being sent on a wild goose chase.

It doesn't matter what store I go to whether it be Lowes, Home Depot or Menards they all seem pretty dumb to me unless it's the department manager or something. Plus when did Home Depot start selling commercial grade equipment. ANSWER, NEVER.

GrassesGuy
03-26-2011, 09:09 PM
It says Subaru engine. Must get real good gas milage. Oh I'm not trying to bash I'm just executing my right to free speech.

capetrees
03-27-2011, 09:51 AM
Seriously? What kind of milage does your Honda or Kawasaki get?

Maybe I'm missing the point.
When it comes to machinery, it's all about how the machine works, no? You get a box of parts and put them together and the motor runs well and is proven (Kawasaki for instance), the transmission(peerless) has been and is being used in a number of different mowers and applications and the system of pulleys, belts, spindles and blades are cutting the grass/brush. The steel used is strong enough and the tires are tires although some have said the tires are too samll, possible quick fix. Who cares where you buy it? Maybe some have fallen into the "name game" and need to buy because the machine they have and everyone else has is the same. Sometimes thats true but in some instances, I don't buy into it. I'm leaning toward taking a chance but really wish I havd a chance to use the machine first as a rental. The return policy mentioned is an option but there has to be an easier way.

As mentioned, Honda, Datsun(Nissan), Hyundai, Kia, Toyota and others all had a hard time getting into the American market. Maybe this is the same.

GMLC
03-27-2011, 10:14 AM
As business owners we take on an extreme amount of risk. Some risks are out of our control(that's what insurance is for). Other risks we have complete control over. Why would you add additional risk by buying unproven equipment? Is it worth down time? Is it worth the worry? Is it worth loosing money? There are dozens of known quality mowers out there that go 3000-4000 hours with little or no problems. I don't have time to test a mower. I need a proven top performer and the extra I pay up front pays for itself over time 10 fold. Let someone else test these mowers. And if you really believe the engine and trans are what makes a great mower just buy a chinese mower like red hawk. They have kawi engines and sell new for like 2500.00. We have a responsibility to our family, our clients and for some of us our employees that needs to be taken seriously!
Posted via Mobile Device

GordonwJackson
03-27-2011, 10:16 AM
It says Subaru engine. Must get real good gas milage. Oh I'm not trying to bash I'm just executing my right to free speech.

I am no expert on the history of the Subaru engine...but I think if you inquire you will be surprised. I believe they are a primary engine for many industrial welders, welder generators and other heavy duty applications and have been branded and used as industrial duty engines for decades. They were the first to offer a 3-year commercial / industrial warranty years ago...and since then Kawasaki and others have macthed Subaru to keep up.

GXi's techs and engineers really like the Subaru engines. They have proven more durable / robust / able to take abuse than Honda GX and Kawasaki FX engines. I think if you ask for input from other Lawnsite.com subscribers that have used or serviced the Subaru v-twin engines, they will attest to the quality. We were originally skeptics and have come to really appreciate these engines.

As far as Kawasaki...please note the the Kawasaki FR v-twins on entry level Toros and Ariens models are 250 hour engines with no commercial duty warranties. The Subaru v-twins and Kawasaki FX engines carry 3 year commercial duty warranties...they are in an entirely different league from the Kawasaki FRs (and B&S Inteks). If you use FR engines for a lawn service I believe it voids the warranty.

GordonwJackson
03-27-2011, 11:02 AM
As business owners we take on an extreme amount of risk. Some risks are out of our control(that's what insurance is for). Other risks we have complete control over. Why would you add additional risk by buying unproven equipment? Is it worth down time? Is it worth the worry? Is it worth loosing money? There are dozens of known quality mowers out there that go 3000-4000 hours with little or no problems. I don't have time to test a mower. I need a proven top performer and the extra I pay up front pays for itself over time 10 fold. Let someone else test these mowers. And if you really believe the engine and trans are what makes a great mower just buy a chinese mower like red hawk. They have kawi engines and sell new for like 2500.00. We have a responsibility to our family, our clients and for some of us our employees that needs to be taken seriously!
Posted via Mobile Device

Your assessment of relative risk is a very valid issue.

The issue is not one sided, though. There is another risk. If you are not open to change and you stick with your "old ways", you may not be serving yourself, your families, your customers and your employees the best way possible.

Many companies have succumbed to sticking to old ways that eventually forced them out of business. They were no longer competitive.

Everyone has to make a decision on what approach is best for them and their particular circumstances.

All else being equal, you can buy approx. 2 Beast 62" ZTRs for the same price as 1 BrandX 60" ZTR (there is round off depending on brand, engine and deck sizes...but you get the point). (54" Z-BEAST $3799; 62" Z-Beast $4999).

If your competition can double their productivity by buying 2 62" Beast ZTRs, it is a factor you cannot ignore. If both ZTRs end up in the shop all the time, you are correct and you made the right choice to stick with a BrandX ZTR. If one of your competitor's ZTR is in the shop and one is running, your competitor is no better or worse off than you buying 1 $10k ZTR from brandX (investment versus productivity). There is a risk associated with your judgment being wrong, though. What if your assessment of the mower quality is incorrect and your competitor is running 2 ZTRs at 50% of your investment (per mower) and undercutting your prices with a lower cost structure / more uptime / more productivity etc.

Weighing the risks / rewards is an individual choice and your circumstances dictate your choices. There are two sides, though, to the risk issue you mentioned. Every business needs to keep abreast of "change" and see how it affects you (or not). You would being doing yourself (family, customers, employees) a disservice if you "wrote off" an opportunity and didn't at least inquire, explore, monitor how it might help you or be a threat to you.

I can understand this may not apply to your circumstances...if you are very profitable, your competition is light, and you are blessed to have loyal customers...then taking any risk that disrupts your successful business model makes little sense. I too would suggest you keep doing exactly what currently makes you successful and just keep an eye on what is going on in the industry.

Risk / reward decisions are never easy and are really driven by individual circumstances.

nepatsfan
03-27-2011, 11:16 AM
Your assessment of relative risk is a very valid issue.

The issue is not one sided, though. There is another risk. If you are not open to change and you stick with your "old ways", you may not be serving yourself, your families, your customers and your employees the best way possible.

Many companies have succumbed to sticking to old ways that eventually forced them out of business. They were no longer competitive.

Everyone has to make a decision on what approach is best for them and their particular circumstances.

All else being equal, you can buy approx. 2 Beast 62" ZTRs for the same price as 1 BrandX 60" ZTR (there is round off depending on brand, engine and deck sizes...but you get the point). (54" Z-BEAST $3799; 62" Z-Beast $4999).

If your competition can double their productivity by buying 2 62" Beast ZTRs, it is a factor you cannot ignore. If both ZTRs end up in the shop all the time, you are correct and you made the right choice to stick with a BrandX ZTR. If one of your competitor's ZTR is in the shop and one is running, your competitor is no better or worse off than you buying 1 $10k ZTR from brandX (investment versus productivity). There is a risk associated with your judgment being wrong, though. What if your assessment of the mower quality is incorrect and your competitor is running 2 ZTRs at 50% of your investment (per mower) and undercutting your prices with a lower cost structure / more uptime / more productivity etc.

Weighing the risks / rewards is an individual choice and your circumstances dictate your choices. There are two sides, though, to the risk issue you mentioned. Every business needs to keep abreast of "change" and see how it affects you (or not). You would being doing yourself (family, customers, employees) a disservice if you "wrote off" an opportunity and didn't at least inquire, explore, monitor how it might help you or be a threat to you.

I can understand this may not apply to your circumstances...if you are very profitable, your competition is light, and you are blessed to have loyal customers...then taking any risk that disrupts your successful business model makes little sense. I too would suggest you keep doing exactly what currently makes you successful and just keep an eye on what is going on in the industry.

Risk / reward decisions are never easy and are really driven by individual circumstances.
How can I demo this machine?If you want the machine taken seriously you have to get some demo's out to guys who run machines every day. Also, every other major brand offers a bagging system...I know you said next year but I really think you need that option. JMO

GMLC
03-27-2011, 11:19 AM
Your assessment of relative risk is a very valid issue.

The issue is not one sided, though. There is another risk. If you are not open to change and you stick with your "old ways", you may not be serving yourself, your families, your customers and your employees the best way possible.

Many companies have succumbed to sticking to old ways that eventually forced them out of business. They were no longer competitive.

Everyone has to make a decision on what approach is best for them and their particular circumstances.

All else being equal, you can buy approx. 2 Beast 62" ZTRs for the same price as 1 BrandX 60" ZTR (there is round off depending on brand, engine and deck sizes...but you get the point). (54" Z-BEAST $3799; 62" Z-Beast $4999).

If your competition can double their productivity by buying 2 62" Beast ZTRs, it is a factor you cannot ignore. If both ZTRs end up in the shop all the time, you are correct and you made the right choice to stick with a BrandX ZTR. If one of your competitor's ZTR is in the shop and one is running, your competitor is no better or worse off than you buying 1 $10k ZTR from brandX (investment versus productivity). There is a risk associated with your judgment being wrong, though. What if your assessment of the mower quality is incorrect and your competitor is running 2 ZTRs at 50% of your investment (per mower) and undercutting your prices with a lower cost structure / more uptime / more productivity etc.

Weighing the risks / rewards is an individual choice and your circumstances dictate your choices. There are two sides, though, to the risk issue you mentioned. Every business needs to keep abreast of "change" and see how it affects you (or not). You would being doing yourself (family, customers, employees) a disservice if you "wrote off" an opportunity and didn't at least inquire, explore, monitor how it might help you or be a threat to you.

I can understand this may not apply to your circumstances...if you are very profitable, your competition is light, and you are blessed to have loyal customers...then taking any risk that disrupts your successful business model makes little sense. I too would suggest you keep doing exactly what currently makes you successful and just keep an eye on what is going on in the industry.

Risk / reward decisions are never easy and are really driven by individual circumstances.

I agree 100%. My personal risk would be taking the chance on these mowers only to find out they are in the shop all the time, when I know my brand rarely is and my brands cut quality is amazing. Like I have mentioned in many other posts about cheaper priced mowers , "in ten years I may have a fleet of these once they are proven". Great points in your post!

GordonwJackson
03-27-2011, 11:46 AM
How can I demo this machine?If you want the machine taken seriously you have to get some demo's out to guys who run machines every day. Also, every other major brand offers a bagging system...I know you said next year but I really think you need that option. JMO

I cannot directly answer your question because GXi / Beast / STANLEY is not yet a sponsor of this site. Any attempt to post for you specific demo info and details would be removed by the moderator. GXi will respect this requirement on this site. I can suggest that every Home Depot store has the option to bring in samples and will likely do so upon request. Many Home Depot stores have them in the SE only because spring arrives earlier there.

Bagging option is being worked on...as is site sponsorship.

nepatsfan
03-27-2011, 12:12 PM
I cannot directly answer your question because GXi / Beast / STANLEY is not yet a sponsor of this site. Any attempt to post for you specific demo info and details would be removed by the moderator. GXi will respect this requirement on this site. I can suggest that every Home Depot store has the option to bring in samples and will likely do so upon request. Many Home Depot stores have them in the SE only because spring arrives earlier there.

Bagging option is being worked on...as is site sponsorship.

That is a good idea, then no one will be able to give a bad review on the machine either. That is probably the best thing you could do for the BEAST. Thanks for the clarification...I didn't realize that was the case as far as the demo sponsorship thing either. Thanks for the always informative posts.

GrassesGuy
03-27-2011, 01:36 PM
I am no expert on the history of the Subaru engine...but I think if you inquire you will be surprised. I believe they are a primary engine for many industrial welders, welder generators and other heavy duty applications and have been branded and used as industrial duty engines for decades. They were the first to offer a 3-year commercial / industrial warranty years ago...and since then Kawasaki and others have macthed Subaru to keep up.

GXi's techs and engineers really like the Subaru engines. They have proven more durable / robust / able to take abuse than Honda GX and Kawasaki FX engines. I think if you ask for input from other Lawnsite.com subscribers that have used or serviced the Subaru v-twin engines, they will attest to the quality. We were originally skeptics and have come to really appreciate these engines.

As far as Kawasaki...please note the the Kawasaki FR v-twins on entry level Toros and Ariens models are 250 hour engines with no commercial duty warranties. The Subaru v-twins and Kawasaki FX engines carry 3 year commercial duty warranties...they are in an entirely different league from the Kawasaki FRs (and B&S Inteks). If you use FR engines for a lawn service I believe it voids the warranty.

I run all FH series and they have been great. Over 1000 hours no problems (knock on wood). FX Stop at 250 hours huh, never heard that one before.

XLS
03-27-2011, 02:39 PM
I will say this for the 36'' sulkie mower . i have an employee who bought 2 this spring for his personal use . We use alot of cheaper priced units along with alot of high end commercial Z mowers and after he had used them a bit and we gave him a hard time he brought one to work this spring and i can say reguardless of how we feel about low end units its a reality that we will see more of them . We have logged 150-200 hours on it and its running fine ,cuts fine and as he told me ...... he can have a friend of his cutting lawns at 45.00 a man hour and he can make money off the fact he has a very low investment in the business , Time will tell if the last or not but.they look solid as of now

LCPullman
03-28-2011, 09:16 PM
Yes, GXi has a web site for BEAST products. If you google BEAST Power equipment you can find it.

One question I was wondering is did you consider using electric clutch for the blades? If so, why didn't you go for electric clutch?
I've put thousands of hours on electric clutches with no failures and I personally consider it superior in durability and less problem prone compared to manual clutches I've worked with.
So is this a cost issue or do you think your design is actually superior? Really, I would like to know.

A few other suggestions to consider in future product development:
If you want serious commercial customers, why does the mower have a 90 day commercial warranty? It should be one year minimum, preferably two year to compete with the industry.
You asked about another walk-behind mower to benchmark the 36" against. Consider the Hustler Trimstar, it doesn't have electric start (which I miss), but it has one feature I really like on a walk-behind, a single lever that controls height-of-cut adjustment. As a minor point, the 36" also has 18" drive tires and the 54" has 20" drive tires.
On the 62" rider, industry standard drive tires are 24x12 rather than your 22x10. Also, the control panel should be up on one of the wheel fenders, where it is much more readily accessible.
Why doesn't the height-of-cut adjustment have a foot petal? Usually by the time you get to a 54"+ 7 gauge deck it is getting heavy enough to be hard work to just use your hand. Also, for us a foot petal of essential to prevent scalping, when you go over the crest of a hill, you need to be able to quickly raise and then lower the deck while still managing the driving with both hands.

I think that mowers like these can gain a place in the commercial market, but I think they need more features so they more closely match what they're competing against. So good luck, and I'm just trying to be helpful based on my own experience.

GordonwJackson
03-28-2011, 10:26 PM
One question I was wondering is did you consider using electric clutch for the blades? If so, why didn't you go for electric clutch?
I've put thousands of hours on electric clutches with no failures and I personally consider it superior in durability and less problem prone compared to manual clutches I've worked with.
So is this a cost issue or do you think your design is actually superior? Really, I would like to know.

A few other suggestions to consider in future product development:
If you want serious commercial customers, why does the mower have a 90 day commercial warranty? It should be one year minimum, preferably two year to compete with the industry.
You asked about another walk-behind mower to benchmark the 36" against. Consider the Hustler Trimstar, it doesn't have electric start (which I miss), but it has one feature I really like on a walk-behind, a single lever that controls height-of-cut adjustment. As a minor point, the 36" also has 18" drive tires and the 54" has 20" drive tires.
On the 62" rider, industry standard drive tires are 24x12 rather than your 22x10. Also, the control panel should be up on one of the wheel fenders, where it is much more readily accessible.
Why doesn't the height-of-cut adjustment have a foot petal? Usually by the time you get to a 54"+ 7 gauge deck it is getting heavy enough to be hard work to just use your hand. Also, for us a foot petal of essential to prevent scalping, when you go over the crest of a hill, you need to be able to quickly raise and then lower the deck while still managing the driving with both hands.

I think that mowers like these can gain a place in the commercial market, but I think they need more features so they more closely match what they're competing against. So good luck, and I'm just trying to be helpful based on my own experience.


Let me see if I can answer all your questions.

Warranty...the BEAST mowers have a 2 year commercial warranty and the engine has a 3 year commercial warranty. If it is stated otherwise it is in error. Please let me know where you saw this and we will get this fixed.

Clutch...GXi developed a clutch for the brush mower which has a lot of moving mass (blades + pulley / flywheel weigh over 60 lbs.). GXi could not find an electric clutch that worked well, so we had to develop a manual clutch. Once it was developed, we used it elsewhere. A manual clutch does have the advantage of transferring less shock to the engine via a softer start, so it has a durability benefit. The big negative of a manual clutch is meeting the ANSI 7 second blade stop rule. That is why the electric clutch is used most often...it is easy to engineer into the product and meet ANSI specifications. To meet this ANSI requirement GXi has developed and patented a spindle brake. We have the benefit of a less than 7 second blade stop time while having a soft-start clutch.

The deck height adjustment on the BEAST 36" and 54" hydro walk behinds was the subject of much discussion as it was developed. GXi started down the path of a single point adjustment. As it was developed, it became apparent that due to the relatively low weight of the decks and the time it took to pin it to a height, it made a lot more sense to use pins and slots (cost versus inconvenience). You can change the deck height in about 20 seconds with the 4 pins and you really only lift half the deck at a time. It was hard to justify the complexity and extra cost of a single point mechanism. In this case it was a cost trade-off.

The wheel size is not fixed and is very easy to change on all GXi mower designs. Look to see more variation in this area in the future. The 22 inch wheels make the 62" Z-BEAST have lots of torque and its hill climbing characteristics are great. The mower was bench marked against a competitor's 60" model with 24" tires and it met / exceeded all parameters. A new version with even more hydro power is under development for 2012 / 2013. Expect to see more innovation in this area in the near future.

Control panel location does vary by model. The fenders are lower due to the all-metal fuel tank under the seat, meaning a further reach to the controls than when fuel tanks are located in the fenders. This makes the under seat controls an attractive alternative. Fender controls are on option on the 48" Z-BEAST model available this year.

The deck height adjustment force is offset with a rear located counter-balance spring. It has almost neutral weight at around 3" cut height position and takes only a little effort to push it down or lift it up using the handle. This was a cleaner, simpler approach than we found elsewhere. Effort throughout the range is less than 15 lbs. of force. Adjusting deck height on-the-fly as you ride over the crest of a sharp hill top was not considered in the design period as a requirement. If you have a frequent requirement to "pump" the deck up and down while driving to avoid scalping on a sharp hill top, this mower is not ideal for your situation.

I hope I have answered your questions. If not, please respond with more.

LCPullman
03-29-2011, 12:21 AM
Let me see if I can answer all your questions.

Warranty...the BEAST mowers have a 2 year commercial warranty and the engine has a 3 year commercial warranty. If it is stated otherwise it is in error. Please let me know where you saw this and we will get this fixed.

Clutch...GXi developed a clutch for the brush mower which has a lot of moving mass (blades + pulley / flywheel weigh over 60 lbs.). GXi could not find an electric clutch that worked well, so we had to develop a manual clutch. Once it was developed, we used it elsewhere. A manual clutch does have the advantage of transferring less shock to the engine via a softer start, so it has a durability benefit. The big negative of a manual clutch is meeting the ANSI 7 second blade stop rule. That is why the electric clutch is used most often...it is easy to engineer into the product and meet ANSI specifications. To meet this ANSI requirement GXi has developed and patented a spindle brake. We have the benefit of a less than 7 second blade stop time while having a soft-start clutch.

The deck height adjustment on the BEAST 36" and 54" hydro walk behinds was the subject of much discussion as it was developed. GXi started down the path of a single point adjustment. As it was developed, it became apparent that due to the relatively low weight of the decks and the time it took to pin it to a height, it made a lot more sense to use pins and slots (cost versus inconvenience). You can change the deck height in about 20 seconds with the 4 pins and you really only lift half the deck at a time. It was hard to justify the complexity and extra cost of a single point mechanism. In this case it was a cost trade-off.

The wheel size is not fixed and is very easy to change on all GXi mower designs. Look to see more variation in this area in the future. The 22 inch wheels make the 62" Z-BEAST have lots of torque and its hill climbing characteristics are great. The mower was bench marked against a competitor's 60" model with 24" tires and it met / exceeded all parameters. A new version with even more hydro power is under development for 2012 / 2013. Expect to see more innovation in this area in the near future.

Control panel location does vary by model. The fenders are lower due to the all-metal fuel tank under the seat, meaning a further reach to the controls than when fuel tanks are located in the fenders. This makes the under seat controls an attractive alternative. Fender controls are on option on the 48" Z-BEAST model available this year.

The deck height adjustment force is offset with a rear located counter-balance spring. It has almost neutral weight at around 3" cut height position and takes only a little effort to push it down or lift it up using the handle. This was a cleaner, simpler approach than we found elsewhere. Effort throughout the range is less than 15 lbs. of force. Adjusting deck height on-the-fly as you ride over the crest of a sharp hill top was not considered in the design period as a requirement. If you have a frequent requirement to "pump" the deck up and down while driving to avoid scalping on a sharp hill top, this mower is not ideal for your situation.

I hope I have answered your questions. If not, please respond with more.

Okay, interesting.

As far as the warranty, I was looking at the pdf owners manuals on the beast website. Thanks for the correction and thanks for the information.

capetrees
03-30-2011, 09:44 PM
Gordon,

Any insight on what I would need to do to get a machine available at a local Home Depot to try as a rental or even see one up close? There are many HD stores around me and I have called yet nobody stocks any Beast mowers of any kind. :confused:

XLS
03-31-2011, 12:39 AM
i love when guys say things like it must be an electric clutch if its commercial .......... I HATE CLUTCHES they last 600 or so hours and are shot in our work loads and a 5000z ferris is a tad expensive to replace every 900 hours ........ our walkers on the other hand we will complain to the company that they are not commercial i guess NOT they are fine we get 1000 hours-1400 on a drive belt so i think they are fine.

sdk1959
03-31-2011, 12:56 AM
If it's a Subaru engine they are rock solid, reliable, and pretty much bullet proof. I have one on a Craftsman rototiller and a Makita/Subaru 75cc 4-stroke engine on a Makita commercial backpack blower. Just used the rototiller today in fact.

In my opinion they are right up there with Honda engines. Subaru makes damn good engines.

GordonwJackson
03-31-2011, 11:14 AM
Gordon,

Any insight on what I would need to do to get a machine available at a local Home Depot to try as a rental or even see one up close? There are many HD stores around me and I have called yet nobody stocks any Beast mowers of any kind. :confused:

I can maybe help if you give me the closest store address. You can also ask the Pro desk or lawn and garden dept. to order one as a store sample...they should comply if you say you are interested. Just tell them which model you like. It will show inactive in their computer system until their first store order is placed.

RGM
03-31-2011, 01:14 PM
I've been working part time at the Depot for 7 years the Beast cam on the website in the fall last year. There are a couple of different mowers and you can see them all at home depot.com. Also they have the Ariens commercial they bought gravely and a company that makes standers all on the web site.
The problem is i haven't seen the Beast anywhere else but on line the ariens you can see at a gravely dealer.

GordonwJackson
03-31-2011, 01:31 PM
I've been working part time at the Depot for 7 years the Beast cam on the website in the fall last year. There are a couple of different mowers and you can see them all at home depot.com. Also they have the Ariens commercial they bought gravely and a company that makes standers all on the web site.
The problem is i haven't seen the Beast anywhere else but on line the ariens you can see at a gravely dealer.

Home Depot is carefully rolling BEAST mowers out based upon: 1. availability...they are selling fast and they do not want to get the supply chain over extended. 2. Focusing on stores that liklely have the highest potential sell through for these mowers. Home Depot managers are carefully selecting the stores on this basis. That being said, they will respond to customer inquiries and bring in a demo unit for anyone that asks and is interested in making a purchase. If you contact GXi directly, they can work with Home Depot to get a demo mower in your area.

Huling
03-31-2011, 09:38 PM
Home Depot is carefully rolling BEAST mowers out based upon: 1. availability...they are selling fast and they do not want to get the supply chain over extended. 2. Focusing on stores that liklely have the highest potential sell through for these mowers. Home Depot managers are carefully selecting the stores on this basis. That being said, they will respond to customer inquiries and bring in a demo unit for anyone that asks and is interested in making a purchase. If you contact GXi directly, they can work with Home Depot to get a demo mower in your area.

Gordon: Appreciate all of the info. I asked earlier and you may have missed it or not been able to respond. If you order one are they delivered in a box with a bunch of assembly or pretty much ready to go. Too, are they delivered in an 18 wheeler and I have to have a front end loader to unload?

GordonwJackson
04-01-2011, 03:08 AM
Gordon: Appreciate all of the info. I asked earlier and you may have missed it or not been able to respond. If you order one are they delivered in a box with a bunch of assembly or pretty much ready to go. Too, are they delivered in an 18 wheeler and I have to have a front end loader to unload?

All mowers currently ship fully assembled and delivery includes a lift gate service to get the mower to your driveway. The mowers drive off the pallets. For home delivery the hydros are all engaged. At some point in the future this will shift to <30 minutes of end-user assembly of the wheels, roll bar and control arms.

Huling
04-01-2011, 09:06 AM
All mowers currently ship fully assembled and delivery includes a lift gate service to get the mower to your driveway. The mowers drive off the pallets. For home delivery the hydros are all engaged. At some point in the future this will shift to <30 minutes of end-user assembly of the wheels, roll bar and control arms.

Thanks for your prompt response. Small assembly is no problem, I just don't have access to a frontend loader etc. Good news.

flatlander42
04-01-2011, 10:44 AM
How about some links now that your a sponsor? Vids and all...bring em on!!!



All mowers currently ship fully assembled and delivery includes a lift gate service to get the mower to your driveway. The mowers drive off the pallets. For home delivery the hydros are all engaged. At some point in the future this will shift to <30 minutes of end-user assembly of the wheels, roll bar and control arms.

GordonwJackson
04-01-2011, 10:55 AM
How about some links now that your a sponsor? Vids and all...bring em on!!!

We are working on this...we've been a sponsor for 10 hours and 54 minutes! :) Our marketing team has the assignment to get the videos formated and posted.

Greyst1
04-01-2011, 12:27 PM
We are working on this...we've been a sponsor for 10 hours and 54 minutes! :) Our marketing team has the assignment to get the videos formated and posted.

Congratulations on your sponsorship and your sales through HD. Although at first glance i would not be interested in your product i am interested in learning more about your mower & your company.

I've said this once before you know a lot about american manufacturing and global supply chain so i'm anxiously awaiting videos, specs, pics, etc....

Either way good luck.

DLCS
04-01-2011, 12:42 PM
Another Stanley company? Like the Stanley comercial mowers.:)

RGM
04-01-2011, 03:57 PM
Home Depot is carefully rolling BEAST mowers out based upon: 1. availability...they are selling fast and they do not want to get the supply chain over extended. 2. Focusing on stores that liklely have the highest potential sell through for these mowers. Home Depot managers are carefully selecting the stores on this basis. That being said, they will respond to customer inquiries and bring in a demo unit for anyone that asks and is interested in making a purchase. If you contact GXi directly, they can work with Home Depot to get a demo mower in your area.

I would like to talk to you about getting a demo for my store

flatlander42
04-01-2011, 04:10 PM
We are working on this...we've been a sponsor for 10 hours and 54 minutes! :) Our marketing team has the assignment to get the videos formated and posted.

haha, I was just bustin your balls:laugh:

dmodem
04-10-2011, 03:20 PM
I recently pulled the trigger and bought the 54" ZTR. Lo and behold, I received a call from the trucking company stating they dropped it as they were maneuvering it for my home delivery....I drove out to see the damage - torn rear fender and dinged deck.....although I refused delivery and received a refund from HD, now I'm within a week of needing to mow, and it'll be approx. 3 weeks to receive another.

Do y'all think I should re-order, wait 3 weeks while my grass grows, and roll the dice on the freight company dropping it again or should I just go purchase a comparable Hustler or Bad Boy? BTW, HD stated there was no way to expedte a replacement shipment....figures.

GordonwJackson
04-10-2011, 03:45 PM
I recently pulled the trigger and bought the 54" ZTR. Lo and behold, I received a call from the trucking company stating they dropped it as they were maneuvering it for my home delivery....I drove out to see the damage - torn rear fender and dinged deck.....although I refused delivery and received a refund from HD, now I'm within a week of needing to mow, and it'll be approx. 3 weeks to receive another.

Do y'all think I should re-order, wait 3 weeks while my grass grows, and roll the dice on the freight company dropping it again or should I just go purchase a comparable Hustler or Bad Boy? BTW, HD stated there was no way to expedte a replacement shipment....figures.


It is unfortunate that the trucking company damaged your mower...accidents do happen. You did the right thing by refusing delivery. Please contact GXi and provide the details. We ship mowers within about 48 hours of getting the orders and I am sure a replacement for a freight damaged mower would get high priority. I am not sure who / why Home Depot would quote a 3 week lead time. Are you maybe located in a remote or far rural area? I don't see your location in your Lawnsite info.

GMLC
04-10-2011, 03:46 PM
Demodem, its always something with HD. Imagine when you need waranty work! I would stay away from HD equipment,far away.
Posted via Mobile Device

soloscaperman
04-10-2011, 05:38 PM
I went to homedepot a few days ago and saw the ZTR. I will ask my friend that works there if I can take it for a spin. I have to give you credit being calm on this site since there are a lot of di*** on here. I am looking for a backup mower and might be looking into them since I already have a newish model Lazer. I am not liking the prices of Exmarks. I really think your paying for name like Apple products and starbucks.

StanWilhite
04-10-2011, 06:24 PM
It is unfortunate that the trucking company damaged your mower...accidents do happen. You did the right thing by refusing delivery. Please contact GXi and provide the details. We ship mowers within about 48 hours of getting the orders and I am sure a replacement for a freight damaged mower would get high priority. I am not sure who / why Home Depot would quote a 3 week lead time. Are you maybe located in a remote or far rural area? I don't see your location in your Lawnsite info.

:)
Gordon, I guess you realize now that some of the folks on this site will feverishly throw everything from pine cones to hand grenades in the hopes that something will work when it comes to justifying their opinions. They expect you to listen to their opinion with "unbiased" ears, but sometimes seem to have trouble reciprocating.

I've noticed that, before you can address one question (or accusation) there will be 5 or 6 more thrown. This keeps you in a constant state of defense trying to explain why some (maybe most) of their accusations are wrong, and leaves little time for you to qualify your opinion (which is what they want).

Seems to me that some are always very good at throwing VERY vague accusations, but sometimes have a helluva time actually providing specific details that justify their opinions.

Get used to hearing "you get what you pay for", and "there's a reason they cost less" and "I heard" as reasons for some folk's opinion. And to make matters even worse, some of these so called "educated opinions" seem to come from people that have never even used the equipment they're labeling as "no good, no way, no how".

In all honesty, I really think it boils down to the fact that some people try to convenience themselves that they made the right decision in spending more money, for (what I think is a very) questionable difference in quality. I also think that this is not their fault, it's just human nature.

This is in no way meant to be personal, it's just my honest opinion.

Field King
04-10-2011, 06:36 PM
WORST PLACE I HAVE EVER SHOPPED. I would not TRUST their word or service when the mower needs work/warranty repair. I had a simple purchase per their ad and they gave me a bunch of bull and so did management when I protested! STEAR CLEAR OF HOME DEPOT!!!!!!!!!!1

dmodem
04-10-2011, 06:52 PM
I don't necessarily have any issues with HD, I was just disappointed that a replacement for a purchased and damaged mower was estimated to take longer than the original shipment. I have about 4 residential acres and an additional summer home that will need the initial mowing in the next week, and if I indeed had to wait 2 - 3 weeks for a replacement shipment, I'll have to bite the bullet, pay a little more, and buy a Hustler or Bad Boy locally.

rain man
04-10-2011, 07:13 PM
I would consider Home Depot for my commercial equipment but Lowes beats them in my book.

StanWilhite
04-10-2011, 08:47 PM
:)
Gordon, I guess you realize now that some of the folks on this site will feverishly throw everything from pine cones to hand grenades in the hopes that something will work when it comes to justifying their opinions. They expect you to listen to their opinion with "unbiased" ears, but sometimes seem to have trouble reciprocating.

I've noticed that, before you can address one question (or accusation) there will be 5 or 6 more thrown. This keeps you in a constant state of defense trying to explain why some (maybe most) of their accusations are wrong, and leaves little time for you to qualify your opinion (which is what they want).

Seems to me that some are always very good at throwing VERY vague accusations, but sometimes have a helluva time actually providing specific details that justify their opinions.

Get used to hearing "you get what you pay for", and "there's a reason they cost less" and "I heard" as reasons for some folk's opinion. And to make matters even worse, some of these so called "educated opinions" seem to come from people that have never even used the equipment they're labeling as "no good, no way, no how".

In all honesty, I really think it boils down to the fact that some people try to convenience themselves that they made the right decision in spending more money, for (what I think is a very) questionable difference in quality. I also think that this is not their fault, it's just human nature.

This is in no way meant to be personal, it's just my honest opinion.

Should be "convince".

By the way Gordon, nice representation for your company, they should be paying you well! :)

Stan in N AL (near Huntsville)

XLS
04-11-2011, 02:02 PM
i love how people bash on here about cheaper units and then throw ill just have to get a hustler ,badboy or what ever and i agree gordan your a pro It makes me want to say then go buy the dam* thing already to the guys who have money to waste on a big mower for 4 lawns lol but then i look and see dmodem has 4 post and i understand he is new to the site and more then likely to the industry in the first place and has no credit as a business man nor as a me,ber and i just laugh at it all .

Mark Oomkes
04-11-2011, 02:29 PM
Was the warranty\service center question ever answered?

FWIW, HD is a seller, not a dealer. A dealer would have on-site service. And that is something you are paying for when buying an Exmark, the service and warranty at a dealership.

StanWilhite
04-11-2011, 03:55 PM
Was the warranty\service center question ever answered?

FWIW, HD is a seller, not a dealer. A dealer would have on-site service. And that is something you are paying for when buying an Exmark, the service and warranty at a dealership.

Mark I agree 100%.
There is a big difference between a "seller" that doesn't maintain or repair, and a "dealer" that does. And, to most people in the LC business, it's worth more to have a "dealer" that can get your broken eqp. repaired and making money again.

However, there are a lot of customers in the world that have a need for a lot of different types (and prices) of eqp. regardless of the name written on it.

There may situations where people are better off buying from the "big box stores" and saving the difference, and other situations that are just the opposite.

I just hate to see someone condemn a piece of eqp. as pretty much "worthless", with no real reason for doing so.

Just my opinion tho! :)

dmodem
04-11-2011, 04:21 PM
i love how people bash on here about cheaper units and then throw ill just have to get a hustler ,badboy or what ever and i agree gordan your a pro It makes me want to say then go buy the dam* thing already to the guys who have money to waste on a big mower for 4 lawns lol but then i look and see dmodem has 4 post and i understand he is new to the site and more then likely to the industry in the first place and has no credit as a business man nor as a me,ber and i just laugh at it all .

Hey XLS, take deep breaths....Although I'm trying to decipher what you typed, I'm not bashing the Z-Beast at all. My concern is only with Home Depot's replacement time estimate on a mower that was purchased and subsequently damaged during shipping. If I can have the re-shipment in a reasonable time frame, I'll gladly make the purchase again and forego the local Hustler / Bad Boy dealers.

capetrees
04-11-2011, 08:49 PM
All this talk about guarantees and warranties, doesn't anyone fix their own equipment? Do you guys buy something because the warranty is good? If I have something break, I fix it. I don't waste my time waiting for someone how many miles away to fix my mower on their schedule. I buy the part, replace the part and keep on going. What happens to you guys when the warranty expires? Do you buy a new mower? I've never relied on a warranty for anything. If it needs fixing, I do it or a friend will that knows what to do will. As far as I see, the only thing that these mowers have that is of any big cost is the Subaru motor, replacement around $1800 but has a solid background so I feel safe running it. Everything else is minor.

BINKY1902
04-11-2011, 09:37 PM
Sometimes, when you see a post about everyone needing to rely on a dealer, if you look back at former posts from the member you find that they are dealers themselves...lol.

MONTE
04-11-2011, 10:23 PM
Did I miss it or has it not been mentioned about this being a CHINA built machine.

BINKY1902
04-11-2011, 11:11 PM
Did I miss it or has it not been mentioned about this being a CHINA built machine.

Yeah it's been covered..lol.

Mark Oomkes
04-12-2011, 08:45 AM
All this talk about guarantees and warranties, doesn't anyone fix their own equipment? Do you guys buy something because the warranty is good? If I have something break, I fix it. I don't waste my time waiting for someone how many miles away to fix my mower on their schedule. I buy the part, replace the part and keep on going. What happens to you guys when the warranty expires? Do you buy a new mower? I've never relied on a warranty for anything. If it needs fixing, I do it or a friend will that knows what to do will. As far as I see, the only thing that these mowers have that is of any big cost is the Subaru motor, replacement around $1800 but has a solid background so I feel safe running it. Everything else is minor.

Sure, but it depends on what broke. If I blow the engine or hydro pump, I am not going to replace it on my dime. You saying you do?

I agree completely on the warranty thing when it comes to plowing though, a piece of paper telling me that they'll fix it when they open in the AM does me jack squat. With mowers, it's a little different.

But no, I do not base my purchases on warranty. I do base my purchase on how well I think the dealer will provide service for me though. Because I am not in the repair business--although we do a lot of our own work--I am in the landscape management business. And if we are going full blast, we make more money at our core work than we can save fixing our own equipment.

Clark Griswold
04-12-2011, 11:16 AM
I bought a 42' Toro TimeCutter w/ 22hp Kawi as a back up from HD & it's one of the best running mowers I've ever used, puts my Kohler to shame and stripes very well too!

Don't knock em' till you tried em'!

GMLC
04-12-2011, 11:39 AM
Has anyone mentioned these mowers are made in CHINA!

XLS
04-12-2011, 11:54 AM
just like everything else is accept it or get over it ....as a country we ask them for help and it cost us our country , and with that comes the products we recieve here . if it wasnt china it would be another country .

GMLC
04-12-2011, 11:57 AM
What about warranty? Has anyone mentioned warranty?

GMLC
04-12-2011, 11:59 AM
Has anyone mentioned these mowers are made in CHINA!

What about warranty? Has anyone mentioned warranty?

Sorry I felt like beating a dead horse today....:hammerhead:

GordonwJackson
04-12-2011, 01:55 PM
Sorry I felt like beating a dead horse today....:hammerhead:

GMLC...

Yes the warranty has been posted / discussed on many threads. Let me see if this link works properly.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?p=3979550#post3979550

Do you have any specific questions I can help answer?

GMLC
04-12-2011, 02:18 PM
GMLC...

Yes the warranty has been posted / discussed on many threads. Let me see if this link works properly.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?p=3979550#post3979550

Do you have any specific questions I can help answer?

Yes, what would you consider the consequences of US treasury bonds defaulting or being down graded to a AA rating considering how much US debt china buys? Will this affect relations with businesses working with china? Would you consider having the mowers built in the US if china decides to levy even heavier taxes on US businesses trying to export to china making it almost impossible to compete? Or vise versa, if the US finally decides to tax china imports heavily to level the playing field here would you build mowers in the US?

GordonwJackson
04-12-2011, 04:03 PM
Yes, what would you consider the consequences of US treasury bonds defaulting or being down graded to a AA rating considering how much US debt china buys? Will this affect relations with businesses working with china? Would you consider having the mowers built in the US if china decides to levy even heavier taxes on US businesses trying to export to china making it almost impossible to compete? Or vise versa, if the US finally decides to tax china imports heavily to level the playing field here would you build mowers in the US?



I think US content issues have been discussed extensively in other threads, a few of which moderators have taken the liberty of removing because posts stray too far off topic. By $ value, more than 50% of all GXi's mowers are US content. I suspect GXi is not materially different in US content than other manufacturers.

GXi owns a large facility in the US capable of performing final assembly. If it is economical to shift assembly from our China factory to our US factory, we will do this. At this time our China facility also serves other countries so it is not just a US / China equation. The rest of the world buys mowers too. Additionally, GXi is uniquely positioned as a US company to sell to the local Chinese market. The Chinese Pro mower market is quite small but will grow in the coming years.

There is a law of "unintended consequences" that frequently comes into play when politicians mettle in the economy. Many countries have tried the "tax the imports" mantra and it has had devastating consequences to their economies.

I don't think you can find any successful country that taxes imports significantly that is a shining example to the world. I think you will find the opposite is true. Countries that impose high import taxes end up with local companies that become complacent, less efficient and just raise prices to match the import barrier. It actually harms the economy as exports go down because local companies become less efficient in their sheltered country and trading partners match the taxes / duties / tariffs. Additionally the cost of living goes up and the standard of living goes down for everyone in the sheltered country.

Steel tariffs during the Bush administration in the US are a great example of this unintended consequence. Steel tariffs were added to protect 30,000 jobs + pensions at US steel mills. US steel mills raised prices as soon as the tariffs were imposed by George Bush. The net impact of the tariffs was a loss of 600,000 US manufacturing jobs as companies that process steel left the USA due to the high cost of US steel. US companies faced a tough decision, either lose all their export business and some domestic business or move US manufacturing operations as quickly as possible to countries that have a lower cost for steel. It was a poor trade-off for the US economy...save 30,000 jobs + pensions to lose 600,000 manufacturing jobs that process steel. A secondary unintended consequence was that in 1 year the demand for expensive US steel went down as US manufacturers rushed off-shore and the US steel companies lost volume...and laid off workers! Wow, that was a great idea! The law of unintended consequences!

You won't find to many economists outside of Washington DC singing the praises of protectionism. It is universally understood as a downhill spiral.

GXi will respond accordingly to any changes in tax code or interest rate policies...as will all our competitors, many of which have overseas operations and parts sources as well.

...enough macro economics for this site?

GMLC
04-12-2011, 04:14 PM
I think US content issues have been discussed extensively in other threads, a few of which moderators have taken the liberty of removing because posts stray too far off topic. By $ value, more than 50% of all GXi's mowers are US content. I suspect GXi is not materially different in US content than other manufacturers.

GXi owns a large facility in the US capable of performing final assembly. If it is economical to shift assembly from our China factory to our US factory, we will do this. At this time our China facility also serves other countries so it is not just a US / China equation. The rest of the world buys mowers too. Additionally, GXi is uniquely positioned as a US company to sell to the local Chinese market. The Chinese Pro mower market is quite small but will grow in the coming years.

There is a law of "unintended consequences" that frequently comes into play when politicians mettle in the economy. Many countries have tried the "tax the imports" mantra and it has had devastating consequences to their economies.

I don't think you can find any successful country that taxes imports significantly that is a shining example to the world. I think you will find the opposite is true. Countries that impose high import taxes end up with local companies that become complacent, less efficient and just raise prices to match the import barrier. It actually harms the economy as exports go down because local companies become less efficient in their sheltered country and trading partners match the taxes / duties / tariffs. Additionally the cost of living goes up and the standard of living goes down for everyone in the sheltered country.

Steel tariffs during the Bush administration in the US are a great example of this unintended consequence. Steel tariffs were added to protect 30,000 jobs + pensions at US steel mills. US steel mills raised prices as soon as the tariffs were imposed by George Bush. The net impact of the tariffs was a loss of 600,000 US manufacturing jobs as companies that process steel left the USA due to the high cost of US steel. US companies faced a tough decision, either lose all their export business and some domestic business or move US manufacturing operations as quickly as possible to countries that have a lower cost for steel. It was a poor trade-off for the US economy...save 30,000 jobs + pensions to lose 600,000 manufacturing jobs that process steel. A secondary unintended consequence was that in 1 year the demand for expensive US steel went down as US manufacturers rushed off-shore and the US steel companies lost volume...and laid off workers! Wow, that was a great idea! The law of unintended consequences!

You won't find to many economists outside of Washington DC singing the praises of protectionism. It is universally understood as a downhill spiral.

GXi will respond accordingly to any changes in tax code or interest rate policies...as will all our competitors, many of which have overseas operations and parts sources as well.

...enough macro economics for this site?

Thank you...I agree, just wish we were on a level playing field in these other countries that have no problem taxing us to death on exports, like china.

Richard Martin
04-12-2011, 04:20 PM
Has anyone mentioned these mowers are made in CHINA!

I have. Ad Nauseam. No one cares anymore. All they know is they're going to save a few bucks.

Richard Martin
04-12-2011, 04:24 PM
If it is economical to shift assembly from our China factory to our US factory, we will do this.

I see. So I was at least giving you credit for assembling them here. Nevermind that. They are as Chinese a mower as they can get. You guys are just adding some profit and calling them American.

At least the Byers Gold and it's decendants are assembled here.

GMLC
04-12-2011, 04:32 PM
I have. Ad Nauseam. No one cares anymore. All they know is they're going to save a few bucks.

I still care my friend and I know you do too. I will not send my money to china if I can help it. I will not support unfair business practices but I am open to capitalism and free trade. But all countries involved need to play by the same rules!!

GordonwJackson
04-12-2011, 04:35 PM
I see. So I was at least giving you credit for assembling them here. Nevermind that. They are as Chinese a mower as they can get. You guys are just adding some profit and calling them American.

At least the Byers Gold and it's decendants are assembled here.



Every US mower is fully assembled, tested, and palletized for shipment in Clayton, NC. In May a second US site will start doing this as well on the west coast.

That being said, GXi's primary mower fab and assembly center is in our factory in Liaocheng, China. Level of assembly content shipped out of our China factory is driven by freight cost, quality management, engineering change follow-up, and mower-prep expectations by customers.

If you think about it, a fully assembled ZTR takes a lot of space and is not too efficient to ship, so it makes more sense for some level of assembly in the destination country.

RGM
04-12-2011, 05:43 PM
I would just like to see one get to my Home Depot #2565 in Maryland people have seen them on Internet but want to touch one.

06LTNox
04-12-2011, 05:46 PM
For starters at least get the videos posted. Doesn't replace running the machine yourself but it'll help show what they can handle.

GordonwJackson
04-12-2011, 05:49 PM
I would just like to see one get to my Home Depot #2565 in Maryland people have seen them on Internet but want to touch one.

Request forwarded to HD. Your Pro desk can initiate an order as well.

RGM
04-12-2011, 05:59 PM
Request forwarded to HD. Your Pro desk can initiate an order as well.


If your some kind of rep why cant you help me i sent you a email to contact me I work at depot as the power equipment specialist I have made calls and get nowhere.

Richard Martin
04-12-2011, 06:10 PM
GXi owns a large facility in the US capable of performing final assembly. If it is economical to shift assembly from our China factory to our US factory, we will do this.

Every US mower is fully assembled, tested, and palletized for shipment in Clayton, NC. In May a second US site will start doing this as well on the west coast.

That being said, GXi's primary mower fab and assembly center is in our factory in Liaocheng, China. Level of assembly content shipped out of our China factory is driven by freight cost, quality management, engineering change follow-up, and mower-prep expectations by customers.

You're starting to confuse me. First you say they're assembled in China (shift assembly from our China factory) and then you say they're fully assembled in Clayton (Every US mower is fully assembled... in Clayton, NC.)

You can't have it both ways.

nepatsfan
04-12-2011, 06:23 PM
Was this based upon actually seeing or driving a Beast mower? A few of your comments seem like you are maybe referring to a different mower. I think if someone reads what you stated and then looks at the mower features you describe, they might scratch their head.

I can say for sure the 62" Beast mower outperforms the 60" Toro on a hill. This is well tested and video taped.

I do work for the company...but hopefully that doesn't change the honesty of your answers.

If your review is based upon an actual review or test of the mower, then I will accept your feedback and let others judge your thoughts by looking at each feature you just described for themselves. If you have never actually seen or driven the mower before, then you should at least be honest to others on this blog.

I would like to see the link for the video and the test results. Who did the testing? Was it done by beast/home depot or someone independant without an interest.

The testing was done by GXi (with the BEAST 62" mower) with the assistance of an experienced Toro mower operator.

I will see if we can get the video posted.

The Toro had 2 shortcomings that became obvious during testing.

First, the ground clearance versus the rear wheel position on the chassis prevents the Toro from climbing out of a steep ditch. The botom of the mower grounds out as the front wheels work their way up the side of the steep ditch / hill. The BEAST appeared to have lower ground clearance but the relationship of the rear wheels to the bottom of the back of the mower was able to lift the back end out of the way in time to prevent it from grounding out (don't try this without ROPS!).

Second, on steep hills the Toro mower had less torque and was unable to complete the steep climbs. Now let me caution you by saying the climb angles were beyond what the engine warranties would permit anyways...but we know in the real world some operators do climb steep hills.

Going sideways on the hills, both mowers performed about the same...on a hill that was safe to drive. We did not take it to a point of failure because we thought the mowers may roll before they would stop tracking using differential hydro power. The challenge is of course the front casters want to take the mower downhill so differential hydro power is all that keeps it tracking straight. The tracking perfromance is affected by front wheel weight, hydro power, and rear wheel traction.

The Toro operator conceded the hill performance on the BEAST surpassed his Toro. He also said he NEVER goes on hills that steep. He said he would use a string trimmer in a steep ditch or hill before he would ever let an employee do what he just did.

I will see if we can get parts of this posted.

[QUOTE=GordonwJackson;3936315]


Lets see that video Gordon. Why wouldn't home depot have the mowers in the stores available to look over and demo? Are bagging systems available for these mowers?

waiting for the vids too....if they wont let you post them...pm the link to somebody and let them post it.


[QUOTE=GordonwJackson;3936342]
Gordon, How bout posting that video of the Toro vs. the Beast that we heard so much about. You are a sponsor now....doesn't that mean you can post it?

GMLC
04-12-2011, 06:27 PM
I bought a Chinese shovel once, it lasted about a day....

GordonwJackson
04-12-2011, 07:26 PM
You're starting to confuse me. First you say they're assembled in China (shift assembly from our China factory) and then you say they're fully assembled in Clayton (Every US mower is fully assembled... in Clayton, NC.)

You can't have it both ways.


Richard,

I will try to be very clear. Our primary metal fabrication and assembly site is our factory in China. Welding, painting, sub-assembly, etc. All US bound mowers are shipped in a configuration that requires additional assembly, mower prep, testing and paletization. This activity is currently all happening in Clayton, NC.

I hope this has helped clear it up for you?

GordonwJackson
04-12-2011, 07:38 PM
If your some kind of rep why cant you help me i sent you a email to contact me I work at depot as the power equipment specialist I have made calls and get nowhere.

Your info and store number were forwarded.

Alan0354
04-12-2011, 07:52 PM
I did not read any of the posts, I just respond to the original.

If HD can have a good warranty repair department, the dealers will be gone. How many of you really get FREE warranty repair from dealer? If HD can buy bulk and sell cheaper and have a service department, there will be no comparison.

Now a days, I order small equipment on line to save a little and take warranty in my own hands. I really cannot look at the dealers anymore. Most problem are fuel related problems and it will not be covered. Read enough posts here that dealers deny warranty. For small hand helds, it just don't make sense to spend over $100 per repair or maintenance where the whole piece is only around $300. Hand held are so easy to fix anyway. For big LCOs that have many crews, time is money, then pay an arm and a leg for dealer to repair. But for some small operation, it don't make sense for small equipments.

This is true even for 21" mowers. Just get Hondas lower model and use it as dispossable!!! Or Husqvarnas from OSH or Sears for like $300.

GMLC
04-12-2011, 08:56 PM
I did not read any of the posts, I just respond to the original.

If HD can have a good warranty repair department, the dealers will be gone. How many of you really get FREE warranty repair from dealer? If HD can buy bulk and sell cheaper and have a service department, there will be no comparison.

Now a days, I order small equipment on line to save a little and take warranty in my own hands. I really cannot look at the dealers anymore. Most problem are fuel related problems and it will not be covered. Read enough posts here that dealers deny warranty. For small hand helds, it just don't make sense to spend over $100 per repair or maintenance where the whole piece is only around $300. Hand held are so easy to fix anyway. For big LCOs that have many crews, time is money, then pay an arm and a leg for dealer to repair. But for some small operation, it don't make sense for small equipments.

This is true even for 21" mowers. Just get Hondas lower model and use it as dispossable!!! Or Husqvarnas from OSH or Sears for like $300.

Actually my dealer always covers my warranty and even goodwills things that may not be covered at times. I always have a loaner/demo waiting for me to eliminate as much down time as possible. You would be crazy not having a good relationship with a dealer as a business owner. Of course I have been a loyal customer for years, it is a two way street. HD will never have a good service department because they wont pay to hire good techs, just 16 year olds. The same 16 year olds that cant assemble a wheelbarrow correctly!

Alan0354
04-12-2011, 09:47 PM
Actually my dealer always covers my warranty and even goodwills things that may not be covered at times. I always have a loaner/demo waiting for me to eliminate as much down time as possible. You would be crazy not having a good relationship with a dealer as a business owner. Of course I have been a loyal customer for years, it is a two way street. HD will never have a good service department because they wont pay to hire good techs, just 16 year olds. The same 16 year olds that cant assemble a wheelbarrow correctly!

Good for you to find a good dealer. I don't have one, neither are a lot of people here. We talked a lot about this issue already. You find a good dealer, keep it. If you don't, find other ways. It is very well known here that a lot of dealers deny warranty.

dmodem
04-12-2011, 10:19 PM
Your info and store number were forwarded.

I've searched both the HD site and GXI's site....where can I purchase replacement blades and belts that are compatible with the 54" Z-Beast?

Mark Oomkes
04-13-2011, 08:07 AM
I did not read any of the posts, I just respond to the original.

If HD can have a good warranty repair department, the dealers will be gone. How many of you really get FREE warranty repair from dealer? If HD can buy bulk and sell cheaper and have a service department, there will be no comparison.

Now a days, I order small equipment on line to save a little and take warranty in my own hands. I really cannot look at the dealers anymore. Most problem are fuel related problems and it will not be covered. Read enough posts here that dealers deny warranty. For small hand helds, it just don't make sense to spend over $100 per repair or maintenance where the whole piece is only around $300. Hand held are so easy to fix anyway. For big LCOs that have many crews, time is money, then pay an arm and a leg for dealer to repair. But for some small operation, it don't make sense for small equipments.

This is true even for 21" mowers. Just get Hondas lower model and use it as dispossable!!! Or Husqvarnas from OSH or Sears for like $300.

I have several good dealers to choose from, and even some great ones. Years back when I had some Toro Groundsmaster 455's I would get parts warrantied a couple years out of warranty, I would pay the labor. Parts that Toro knew shouldn't have failed.

I just had 2 Echo 770's repaired under warranty for fuel issues.

As GMLC stated, most of the time I can get a demo if I really need one.

Too bad you don't have good ones, but I will support mine to the end before I buy something like this from Home Cheapo. Just another form of WalMart running the small guy out of business.

Reminds me of a great song by a great country singer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBh-m1yTZS0

ReddensLawnCare
04-13-2011, 09:45 AM
OK Guys..i searched for the video on youtube and I found it!!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlHriG4wqlw
Gordon, I applaud your professionalism. I would be interested in checking one out, probably not buy bc I like my dealer support, but your website did get me interested as well as your level of professionalism.
**And the link, i dont know which one is the beast...the mower, the man, or the hill??

GMLC
04-13-2011, 10:36 AM
OK Guys..i searched for the video on youtube and I found it!!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlHriG4wqlw
Gordon, I applaud your professionalism. I would be interested in checking one out, probably not buy bc I like my dealer support, but your website did get me interested as well as your level of professionalism.
**And the link, i dont know which one is the beast...the mower, the man, or the hill??

That is impressive!!! When can I get one?

ReddensLawnCare
04-13-2011, 11:50 AM
Well...that is what we get made right here in America! Haha...I had to put that in there even though I strongly support made in USA

XLS
04-13-2011, 07:39 PM
Gordon I want to thank you sir for your representation of your product . You ask me a few days ago for my contact information and today i recieved a very professional call from your company. In the morning i will place a call to another member of the company because it was to late today to handle all business of the product ,thank you for your product details you and your company was willing to share and we will do business with you in the very near future . Thank you

eaglescout1993
04-14-2011, 10:43 PM
Ok so i read the first page, got a little mad that u did not tell us you worked for the company before you started this post.

If you look at most true commercial mower that have been around for years, 90% of them dont have "commercial duty" painted on them. When i go looking for a mower i look for brand that are

1 MADE IN USA
2 PARTS IN USA
3 Local dealer w/ easy parts great staff and, a loner mower for when something bad happens to the one i spent 5-10 thousand on.

Last time i checked, HD did not offer these three things on a regular basis.

Would i buy this mower, NO! Would i be willing to give it a shot for a year and pay for it latter based on my experience. Yes, and not so i can use a free mower. I just am not convinced that this is a good deal. I have a gut feeling that parts would be hard to get quickly and cost more in down time then production.

bigreds
04-15-2011, 12:19 AM
Gordon, how do you explain the Beast mower being falsely advertised as having a 7 gauge commercial deck? It blatantly has a 10 gauge unreinforced residential deck.

Could you clarify for the commercial mower community?

GordonwJackson
04-15-2011, 02:01 AM
Ok so i read the first page, got a little mad that u did not tell us you worked for the company before you started this post.

If you look at most true commercial mower that have been around for years, 90% of them dont have "commercial duty" painted on them. When i go looking for a mower i look for brand that are

1 MADE IN USA
2 PARTS IN USA
3 Local dealer w/ easy parts great staff and, a loner mower for when something bad happens to the one i spent 5-10 thousand on.

Last time i checked, HD did not offer these three things on a regular basis.

Would i buy this mower, NO! Would i be willing to give it a shot for a year and pay for it latter based on my experience. Yes, and not so i can use a free mower. I just am not convinced that this is a good deal. I have a gut feeling that parts would be hard to get quickly and cost more in down time then production.




Sorry, I can vouch for Deerewashed who started this thread, he does not work for GXi nor does anybody at GXi know him.

Thank you for your feedback.

GordonwJackson
04-15-2011, 09:52 AM
Gordon, how do you explain the Beast mower being falsely advertised as having a 7 gauge commercial deck? It blatantly has a 10 gauge unreinforced residential deck.

Could you clarify for the commercial mower community?



Dear Bigreds,

Thank you for your feedback on both this thread, plus one other thread on this site, plus your emails on this matter. I understand you are the sales manager for Big Red�s Mowers, Grandbury TX (a Bad Boy and Snapper dealer). GXi appreciates the special interest you have taken in the BEAST mowers.

Please find below a discussion regarding the BEAST mowers� deck construction (with the exception of the 48� Z-BEAST ZTR which has a stamped deck).

The objective of a fabricated deck is to make the deck as durable as possible. There are 3 aspects to this objective. First is to be strong enough to handle the forces experienced by the deck as a mechanical structure. Second is for the deck to be strong enough to withstand abusive impact during use. Third is to withstand long term metal fatigue. The overall approach is place the strength where it is needed, for instance the trailing edge of the deck and the sides receive far less abuse that the leading edge and the top of the deck.

GXi has approached the deck construction from this perspective.

The deck fabrication has 4 main areas:

The top surface of the deck that needs to withstand pulley and spindle forces as well as provides the primary structure for the entire deck and the deck lift cables. This portion of the deck is double reinforced with two layers of 3mm steel, 6mm total. This is 3 gauge thickness (6mm = .24� 3 gauge steel starts at .2391�). Several attached photos clearly show the double thickness reinforcement and the size of the second layer of 3mm steel covering about 75% of the top surface of the deck.

The leading edge of the deck is comprised of 3 strengthening features; 3mm primary base material, a 3mm bull nose and a 90 degree break along the entire leading edge. Combined, these features provide significantly more strength than 3 gauge thick steel. See attached photos.

The baffles are fully protected so they are 3mm steel.

The �skirting� which is the back trailing edge is made of 3mm steel and reinforced by the baffle structure as well.

The sides use 3mm steel and are reinforced with welded bar stock to support the exit chute, grass catcher attachment, etc.

The use of the term 7 gauge is truly an average since some portions are much thicker (3 gauge or more) and less critical portions of the deck are thinner.

I hope this description of the deck construction answers your question.

Please review the attached photos for more detail.

We look forward to any additional feedback you may have.

dmodem
04-15-2011, 03:21 PM
I received a 54" Z-Beast yesterday and used it for about an hour today. 1st impression is that it's very well-constructed, solid, and has more than enough suitable power! I've driven a Buddy's diesel Kubota before, and although not as solid, I believe the Z-Beast is a great deal at 1/3 of the price!

StanWilhite
04-15-2011, 03:29 PM
I received a 54" Z-Beast yesterday and used it for about an hour today. 1st impression is that it's very well-constructed, solid, and has more than enough suitable power! I've driven a Buddy's diesel Kubota before, and although not as solid, I believe the Z-Beast is a great deal at 1/3 of the price!

Congrats on the new ride! A lot of folks would probably like to see some "real life" pics...I know I would!
Stan

XLS
04-15-2011, 03:43 PM
I agree i would like pics of the lawns before and after

flatlander42
04-15-2011, 03:56 PM
I was thinking.......I'd be pissed if it took as long to get parts as it is taking to get a simple video.

I'm supprised there is pics of the deck. To bad the quality of the pics sucks.

dmodem
04-15-2011, 04:08 PM
I'll take some photos later today. Granted, the PA lawn is currently soggy from the recent rains, but the Beast mowed the areas I was able to maneuver without getting stuck quite well! Happily pleased.

GMLC
04-15-2011, 05:09 PM
I'll take some photos later today. Granted, the PA lawn is currently soggy from the recent rains, but the Beast mowed the areas I was able to maneuver without getting stuck quite well! Happily pleased.

Please give us a full review of the beast with pictures. What other mowers have you run? Is this your first "commercial mower"?


As for the deck, pictures speak a thousand words and Ill keep my comments to myself. I find the background interesting in the pics as well.

MJB
04-15-2011, 05:40 PM
A lot of guys are going to make fun of it, but that deck would kick butt going up against an XR7 in wet northern grasses. Hustler might want to take notes on where to put those kickers to help direct the flow. But the XR7 deck would outlast the Beast deck in a ztr demolition derby, but thats not really something to brag about is it.

deerewashed
04-15-2011, 10:42 PM
wow, i have a lot to catch up on, completely forgot i made this things!!! didn't know something i wrote on here could take off on here. all i have to say is i am not happy that home depot has ads for these mowers on this website.... dont feel they are right for this website.

deerewashed
04-15-2011, 10:45 PM
i will like to ask though, is it true that home depot uses, for example plastic instead of metal for some parts to save money? if the engine is original and straight from the commercial factory, the 36 must be a beast....literally

MJB
04-15-2011, 11:10 PM
i will like to ask though, is it true that home depot uses, for example plastic instead of metal for some parts to save money? if the engine is original and straight from the commercial factory, the 36 must be a beast....literally

If you compare the Beast to any of the mowers HD sells Cub, JD, etc the Bdeast by far looks like the best option and I'm sure we will see a lot of them running around. They have power, a decent deck, dependable hydraulics, manual clutch, a great place to start for people with only $5000 to spend. I see guys out here making a living with Toro Timecutters talk about a tinker toy, doesn't HD sell those too? The Beast will rule the H Depot, Lowes mower market .

superdog1
04-16-2011, 09:24 PM
Gordon, Having been in sales for the last 19 years of my life and doing it in an industry (insurance) that has plenty of competition and headaches, I must say that you are one of the most professional sales people I have ever met.

It is very difficult to bite your tongue and return a productive and unbiased response when some of the questions and or accusations are less than "Gentlemanly" to say the least. I tried to offer some assistance in another thread on this website in my area of expertise and was greeted with comments like "You should go see a REAL insurance agent" etc. so I understand what you are up against.

Anyway, to continue with my comments, if the Beast is only 50% as good as its sales force, I will buy one tomorrow. I am very new to this business, so I am willing to admit that my opinions aren't worth much, as I don't have any to give, LOl

Having read the entire thread, there have been a lot of valid points brought up. All of them were answered in a professional, informative manner that were to the point without stepping on the toes of the "Questioner".

I bought a Cub Cadet RZT 3 years ago from Home Depot. The price was lower than the local dealer who also sold the same exact unit. Since I was on a budget, I went to HD instead of the dealer. 2 years later, the Cub needed a belt. HD was a joke trying to get assistance, as it seemed that finding the part# was above the abilities of the HD staff at the local store, nor could I locate it on the website.

My next stop was the local dealer. After answering the "Did you buy it here" question, the friendly smile and attitude vaporized from the parts guys face. He actually became rude and came up with some stupid excuse as to why he couldn't get me the belt. I ended up driving over an hour to another dealer who treated me like a king.

My point of the last 2 paragraphs is that these are things that MUST be corrected by the local HD store AND the local dealer. The HD person on duty needs to know his/her stuff when dealing with the customers. This issue extends to other depts. within the store and I am sure that this incompetency is what causes others to automatically assume that buying a Z Beast from HD will be a bad experience.

The local dealer is an IDIOT!. If I owned that facility, I would bend over backwards for EVERY customer that comes in my door. If they had done that for me, I would have never ever considered buying another mower from HD and would have paid the extra $$ the next time I needed a mower. Considering the fact that I went from a homeowner to an LCO, they just lost a LOT of $$ from future sales.

Since the dealer that did treat me right is over an hour away, it wouldn't work out for me to continue purchasing items from them. If I were closer, they would have me for life! With all of this information I have from reading this thread, I will purchase a Z Beast when my ZTR dies (Which I suspect is very soon, as my Cub ZTR will probably puke within a month or 2, Lol). I found a local guy who does mower repair, and when I asked him about servicing a Beast unit, he replied "No problem!, a mower is a mower". He also told me that a bearing is a bearing and he has an outlet for all types of parts that fit on many different mowers. There will always be 2 or 3 items that are dealer only, but is rare.

I'm not a fan of Walmarts and HD type stores, as I also believe that buying products made in the USA is a good thing. I am also not stupid, as I know we are now in a world that has a global economy, and limiting myself to USA made products only will mainly just hurt my wallet. When I purchase a Beast, I know that some of that $$ stays right here to pay the sales force, the trucking CO that brought the mower there etc.

I'm not sure why I just posted all this, Lol. I guess it was just on my mind and I just had to mention your professionalism.

nepatsfan
04-16-2011, 10:40 PM
Gordon, Having been in sales for the last 19 years of my life and doing it in an industry (insurance) that has plenty of competition and headaches, I must say that you are one of the most professional sales people I have ever met.

It is very difficult to bite your tongue and return a productive and unbiased response when some of the questions and or accusations are less than "Gentlemanly" to say the least. I tried to offer some assistance in another thread on this website in my area of expertise and was greeted with comments like "You should go see a REAL insurance agent" etc. so I understand what you are up against.

Anyway, to continue with my comments, if the Beast is only 50% as good as its sales force, I will buy one tomorrow. I am very new to this business, so I am willing to admit that my opinions aren't worth much, as I don't have any to give, LOl

Having read the entire thread, there have been a lot of valid points brought up. All of them were answered in a professional, informative manner that were to the point without stepping on the toes of the "Questioner".

I bought a Cub Cadet RZT 3 years ago from Home Depot. The price was lower than the local dealer who also sold the same exact unit. Since I was on a budget, I went to HD instead of the dealer. 2 years later, the Cub needed a belt. HD was a joke trying to get assistance, as it seemed that finding the part# was above the abilities of the HD staff at the local store, nor could I locate it on the website.

My next stop was the local dealer. After answering the "Did you buy it here" question, the friendly smile and attitude vaporized from the parts guys face. He actually became rude and came up with some stupid excuse as to why he couldn't get me the belt. I ended up driving over an hour to another dealer who treated me like a king.

My point of the last 2 paragraphs is that these are things that MUST be corrected by the local HD store AND the local dealer. The HD person on duty needs to know his/her stuff when dealing with the customers. This issue extends to other depts. within the store and I am sure that this incompetency is what causes others to automatically assume that buying a Z Beast from HD will be a bad experience.

The local dealer is an IDIOT!. If I owned that facility, I would bend over backwards for EVERY customer that comes in my door. If they had done that for me, I would have never ever considered buying another mower from HD and would have paid the extra $$ the next time I needed a mower. Considering the fact that I went from a homeowner to an LCO, they just lost a LOT of $$ from future sales.

Since the dealer that did treat me right is over an hour away, it wouldn't work out for me to continue purchasing items from them. If I were closer, they would have me for life! With all of this information I have from reading this thread, I will purchase a Z Beast when my ZTR dies (Which I suspect is very soon, as my Cub ZTR will probably puke within a month or 2, Lol). I found a local guy who does mower repair, and when I asked him about servicing a Beast unit, he replied "No problem!, a mower is a mower". He also told me that a bearing is a bearing and he has an outlet for all types of parts that fit on many different mowers. There will always be 2 or 3 items that are dealer only, but is rare.

I'm not a fan of Walmarts and HD type stores, as I also believe that buying products made in the USA is a good thing. I am also not stupid, as I know we are now in a world that has a global economy, and limiting myself to USA made products only will mainly just hurt my wallet. When I purchase a Beast, I know that some of that $$ stays right here to pay the sales force, the trucking CO that brought the mower there etc.

I'm not sure why I just posted all this, Lol. I guess it was just on my mind and I just had to mention your professionalism.
FYI
You should have just gone to an auto parts store for the belt. If they didn't have it they could order it. A lot of times mower belts are longer than belts that they stock but you can order them.

XLS
04-16-2011, 11:01 PM
you guys need to take a look at my post on here "who makes the Beast" thread if you want a non bias experiance with the beast walkbehind

capetrees
04-17-2011, 10:17 AM
You didn't give a review of the beast walkbehind, you gave a review of HD sales reps and service. You never used the mower so how can it be a review?

BTW superdog1,
Internet parts supply companies have your part. mowmore.com Screw the local dealer. Learn to fix things yourself. I get the same attitudes with my local dealers. If you didn't buy it there, they don't want your business. Remember, first time ordering, always order 2. When or if the next one goes, you have one to immediately replace with and at the same time, order another for the future.

superdog1
04-17-2011, 12:21 PM
BTW superdog1,
Internet parts supply companies have your part. mowmore.com Screw the local dealer. Learn to fix things yourself. I get the same attitudes with my local dealers. If you didn't buy it there, they don't want your business. Remember, first time ordering, always order 2. When or if the next one goes, you have one to immediately replace with and at the same time, order another for the future.
Advice well taken!:waving:

XLS
04-17-2011, 12:39 PM
cape then dont bother pointing out the lack of it rolling and just buy from the HDs and move on becasue we all know the mower is only as good as the people who sell them , wait that is HD

sdk1959
04-17-2011, 01:22 PM
You didn't give a review of the beast walkbehind, you gave a review of HD sales reps and service. You never used the mower so how can it be a review?

BTW superdog1,
Internet parts supply companies have your part. mowmore.com Screw the local dealer. Learn to fix things yourself. I get the same attitudes with my local dealers. If you didn't buy it there, they don't want your business. Remember, first time ordering, always order 2. When or if the next one goes, you have one to immediately replace with and at the same time, order another for the future.

I agree 100%.

I can't stand reading a review about a product and the review is all about the company that makes or sells it. If someone reviews a product it should be about the product NOT the company that makes or sells them. It's a product review not a company review.

If someone gets a defective one or poor dealer service oh well, when they get one that runs and works right THEN they should review it after they used it awhile. I don't want to read about a bad dealer service experience, I want to hear about the product.

I'll take reliable equipment with poor dealer service over unreliable equipment with good dealer service any day. While dealer service is important, having reliable equipment comes first, if you get good dealer service too that's just a bonus.

Downtime will cost you a lot more than any sweetheart purchase deals or loaner piece a dealer will give you.

XLS
04-17-2011, 05:05 PM
ok granted its not a field test but it is stil0 la review worth thinking about guys think about it this way ......... the machine had been setting and the first week of green grass and your getting ready to go and BAM..... the batteries are dead . the brake lever is siezed up on one and the forward control rod is way off on the other. lets assume you used the mower last year and its a tank a great machine. now miss jones will have to wait if you cant get them fixed this week . In your mind you decide to charge the batteries and attempt to adjust the linkage for the forward control and you lube the brake and hope you can get it fixed . you charge the battery on a friday and they both need replaced and miss jones called and asks if you can come and service her early while she is in town this week . you assume you can get a battery and say yes.
later that day you go out to get a battery and they dont have them and you have to wait untill gxi is open to order one possibly.

on and on the fact is if i used it or not if i owned it or not if it was our machine and they failed to run i would reguardless be waiting on gxi to open to wait a week on parts or i would have to modify the system voiding any and all actual warranty.

its a rock in a hard spot . some will buy some will not no actuall need to even ask for trials simply becasue these china mowers are sent off the hydro and engine manufactures to be designed to work with the correct sizes and then the hydrogear assembly gets a warranty or changes are made and the same as with the engines . its not as simple as its the right price lets put it on here . i have waited on "bradely) to finish this process for their 61'' units for some time and its in the hands of kawai and the hydro companies at this point

GMLC
05-04-2011, 06:41 PM
Gordon and I are going to try to set up a SHOOT OUT between commercial mowers. I hope it really happens!!



Originally Posted by GordonwJackson
Hi GMLC, and 71gearhead:

I can tell both of you are very interested in BEAST mowers.

If I were to suggest a "throw down" challenge between your favorite mower and a BEAST mower...would you accept and attend with your mower?

I suggest a very simple scoring method that rates cut quality, speed, hill climbing ability, resistance to abuse, cost, and overall value. These are all things we could objectively measure in one day.

You must be willing to subject your mower to the very same test sequence (including abuse) as the BEAST mower and we will find a 3rd party to keep score.

If you think this is a good idea we can work out the logistics over the next few weeks to arrange something in your local area. Of course we will want to post all results on this site for all to see. What do you think?

Maybe other lawnsite members would like to try this too? All I ask is that you are a true Pro mower user...and lets discuss.

I look forward to your feedback.

Gordon

YES!!!! That would be awesome. My Scag with velocity deck vs the "beast"!!! I have plenty of hills here in NH and blue grass ready to go. I can even get my local scag rep and dealer to come out with other mowers as well, and we will film!!! This sounds like a plan!!!! Gordon can you bring other beast models as well? We can compare walkbehinds and Z's? All though cost over life of ownership and resistance to abuse takes more than one day to prove. My scag has over 3000 hours with minimal down time but shes up to the challenge!!

Im going to have some of my own tests with real life commercial situations set up for this shoot out. I have some properties with steep hills, thick wet fields, even and uneven surfaces, rocky properties, ponds, trees, perfectly manicured lawns and everything in between. We can really put these mowers through hell. Its really going to be interesting to see if the beast will keep pace with my scag that has been mowing these same properties almost everyday since 2006. Gordon please make sure the mowers you bring are completely stock and not some special test version. My scag is stock with no modifications at all. I will also make sure my dealer and scag rep. bring mowers that are all stock. For a third party judge we can invite Turf Magazine as they are in Vermont and not far from me at all. And after all is said and done we can go to the local watering hole:drinkup::drinkup:my treat!

GPDesign1
05-04-2011, 09:25 PM
Gordon and I are going to try to set up a SHOOT OUT between commercial mowers. I hope it really happens!!

(Gordon says)

If I were to suggest a "throw down" challenge between your favorite mower and a BEAST mower...would you accept and attend with your mower?

I suggest a very simple scoring method that rates cut quality, speed, hill climbing ability, resistance to abuse, cost, and overall value. These are all things we could objectively measure in one day.

You must be willing to subject your mower to the very same test sequence (including abuse) as the BEAST mower and we will find a 3rd party to keep score.

(end Gordon)

YES!!!! That would be awesome.

And after all is said and done we can go to the local watering hole:drinkup::drinkup:my treat!

THIS is an EXCELLENT idea- let's settle this once and for all! Better Outdoor will be there with frickin' bells on- name the time and the place. I'll stack our mowers up against ANYONE'S (especially that Chinese junk). Gordon- Bring your best buddy. We'll send you back to Chenzou Province in several (dripping) boxes.

(GMLC) Your offer is generous, but can't leave the "heavy lifting" to just one guy. Better will buy the first and the last round- everything in the middle is all you brother! :laugh: :drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup:

BINKY1902
05-04-2011, 09:31 PM
I would actually like to see the 36" beast hydro with 22hp subaru perform. It would be hard to beat that thing from a power standpoint. You're talking around 35 ft lbs torque, 22 hp on a 36" deck. It would have no choice but to cut the heck out of the grass.

MJB
05-04-2011, 10:01 PM
To make it fair I think Gordon will need to bring an operator that knows what we do and what we want from a mower. Otherwise the test will have an unfair advantage. Can we trust GMLC to run the Beast on your properties without trying to make it fail? I'm only saying this because most dealers and sales guys can not come close to putting a mower thru it's paces in hard to get to places without screwing up. We do this everyday so we need an unbiased experienced operator for the Beast. Or someone that will take their time and run uphill, downhill, sidehill, backing up hill, you name it. But make sure you guys make even passes too. 1 section the beast, one the scag, then we can compare each section for quality of cut, wheel spin, stripes etc. Sounds like fun guys hope you all do a fair review. Don't let someone jump on a mower and run wide open spinning donuts then were left trying to figure out how good it cuts, like we see on all the BB commercials.

GMLC
05-04-2011, 10:43 PM
To make it fair I think Gordon will need to bring an operator that knows what we do and what we want from a mower. Otherwise the test will have an unfair advantage. Can we trust GMLC to run the Beast on your properties without trying to make it fail? I'm only saying this because most dealers and sales guys can not come close to putting a mower thru it's paces in hard to get to places without screwing up. We do this everyday so we need an unbiased experienced operator for the Beast. Or someone that will take their time and run uphill, downhill, sidehill, backing up hill, you name it. But make sure you guys make even passes too. 1 section the beast, one the scag, then we can compare each section for quality of cut, wheel spin, stripes etc. Sounds like fun guys hope you all do a fair review. Don't let someone jump on a mower and run wide open spinning donuts then were left trying to figure out how good it cuts, like we see on all the BB commercials.

Im not a dealer or sales guy , I have been in the lawn care business for some time. I plan on only running my own mowers. We will try to make this as fair as possible. Im trying to get as many different commercial mowers as possible here with experienced operators. I really hope we can make this happen!!

GMLC
05-04-2011, 10:45 PM
THIS is an EXCELLENT idea- let's settle this once and for all! Better Outdoor will be there with frickin' bells on- name the time and the place. I'll stack our mowers up against ANYONE'S (especially that Chinese junk). Gordon- Bring your best buddy. We'll send you back to Chenzou Province in several (dripping) boxes.

(GMLC) Your offer is generous, but can't leave the "heavy lifting" to just one guy. Better will buy the first and the last round- everything in the middle is all you brother! :laugh: :drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup:

Thanks!!!

I will PM you with my contact info if we can make this happen. The more true commercial mowers we can get in this shoot out the better!!

flatlander42
05-04-2011, 10:57 PM
Gordens posts seem to have slowed down lately. What do you spoze he thinks of a PM becoming public?

MJB
05-04-2011, 11:04 PM
Im not a dealer or sales guy , I have been in the lawn care business for some time. I plan on only running my own mowers. We will try to make this as fair as possible. Im trying to get as many different commercial mowers as possible here with experienced operators. I really hope we can make this happen!!

I would want you to take the Beast and attempt to mow the same way you normally would with your Scag. No one expects the Beast to be on par with the Scag but it might surprise you , or justify your opinion of it. But I'm just saying from my standpoint I would want you guys that are in the business try to make the Beast do exactly what you do everyday with the Scag. Then we can see the difference, and hear more opinions hopefully unbiased. If the Beast surprises you let us know, if it's a joke I know you'll tell us. Thats all I mean't. Have fun!

Greyst1
05-04-2011, 11:20 PM
THIS is an EXCELLENT idea- let's settle this once and for all! Better Outdoor will be there with frickin' bells on- name the time and the place. I'll stack our mowers up against ANYONE'S (especially that Chinese junk). Gordon- Bring your best buddy. We'll send you back to Chenzou Province in several (dripping) boxes.

(GMLC) Your offer is generous, but can't leave the "heavy lifting" to just one guy. Better will buy the first and the last round- everything in the middle is all you brother! :laugh: :drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup:

Dang Gary.... Way to man up... I like it.... Good to see you posting on here. You always tell/told it like it is.....

If this actually happens, please send me an invite.

Ridin' Green
05-05-2011, 01:33 AM
Wow!
I have read this entire encyclopedia of a thread. It has been very interesting.

I would like to say that Gordon has been very professional in his responses to less than polite comments at times, and very well versed in his company's products. I applaud you sir! Also, the same goes to all those who volunteered to make this challenge happen.

There have been many valid points made on both sides IMO.

However, when I buy something, I always try to but the best I can afford, even if it's more than really needed at the time. I don't always have the biggest or baddest, but I prefer them when I can afford it, and buy as close to it as I can get at the moment of purchase. It's always better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

I freely admit that I hate China, and anything that is made in China. That is purely my opinion/feelings, and has little to do with how good these new mowers are, other than the fact I am sick of everything that is made of metal (or anything else for that matter) coming from a country that is doing their best in every way possible to ruin the greatest country to ever exist on God's green earth. I will always go out of my way to avoid buying anything from China if at all possible. The old "get on board or get left behind" mentallity alluded to in an earlier post doesn't wash for me where these new mowers are concerned. Buy American, and support American jobs and family's whenever possible. Saving a few bucks for now, may end up costing you money down the road when the only products you will be able to buy come from China, and they are setting all the rules/prices. You gotta stand for something, so this is where I stand.

If The Beast were made here I'd seriously look at them even if they weren't quite as good as some of the other mowers on the market. Even if being made here meant they'd cost a bit more than they do being made in China. Especially since Gordon represents his company here in this thread so well.

Richard Martin
05-05-2011, 02:47 AM
Well said Ridin' Green. :usflag:

Quite frankly, I don't care about the outcome of this "test". If it reeks of Chinese commie steel (and they do) then I would have to be fooled into buying it.

LawnDon
05-05-2011, 10:04 PM
I agree with keeping jobs here in the US but if you think that bad about anything from China or anywhere else just walk through your house, take your tv's, radios, light bulbs, well about 80 percent of the items in your house from electronics to kids toys and throw them in the trash.

And on that note. Do you think all the parts in your current mower is made in the US. I don't even care what brand you have I will be willing to bet that more than 50 percent of the items (maybe not 50 percent of cost) but definitely 50 percent of the items are from china or some other country.

Like I said I am all for keeping jobs in the US but I am also realistic. I may not be able to afford a $8,000 mower but I can spend $4,000 to purchase a mower and it will work for my needs and this is all I am able to afford to be able to put food on the table then I will purchase this as long as it fits my needs. Some of this conversation has been great but some just sounds to me like the old "ford vs. chevy" argument. Everyone has there favorite.

Ridin' Green
05-05-2011, 11:58 PM
I agree with keeping jobs here in the US but if you think that bad about anything from China or anywhere else just walk through your house, take your tv's, radios, light bulbs, well about 80 percent of the items in your house from electronics to kids toys and throw them in the trash.

And on that note. Do you think all the parts in your current mower is made in the US. I don't even care what brand you have I will be willing to bet that more than 50 percent of the items (maybe not 50 percent of cost) but definitely 50 percent of the items are from china or some other country.

Like I said I am all for keeping jobs in the US but I am also realistic. I may not be able to afford a $8,000 mower but I can spend $4,000 to purchase a mower and it will work for my needs and this is all I am able to afford to be able to put food on the table then I will purchase this as long as it fits my needs. Some of this conversation has been great but some just sounds to me like the old "ford vs. chevy" argument. Everyone has there favorite.

You are right about all the crap that most people have in their homes and elsewhere that is made in China. I can tell you this though, there is far less of it in my home and shop than in most peoples. That was my point above- take a stand and just say no whenever possible.

If you give in to the " I can't do any better or afford any more" mentallity, then all is lost, or soon will be. Again, that was my point-far too many people think it is inevitable, so they just go along. If those same people who go along would simply refused to, then less Chinese crap would be invading our shores/stores, because no one would be buying it.

You can still find pretty decent used equipment that is either entirely made here (or at least largely made with the engine maybe coming from Japan or some place) for reasonable cost. I have no truck with things that come from Japan like Honda and Kawaski engines. In fact I love Kaws, but they (Japan) aren't devaluing our money or buying our debt in any way near what China is doing just for the right to flood our markets with less than top quality merchandise.

I have Chinese made caster arms on my newest JD, and it really burns my butt. Enough so, that I am calling Deere to let them know what I think of them for selling out. They used to like to brag about being the only all American made tractor company left. Yea, right. Just go look at all the Chinese crap on the newer 4000/5000 series tractors.
I don't see that many recalls on stuff from this country, or any other country for that matter, like I do on crap from China.

One other point- I don't believe that the quality of the steels being made in China is anywhere near what you get from this, and most other countries. Tools made there seem to break too easily, and I've seen far too many parts on things made there bend when they shouldn't have. That really concerns me. I don't want to pay hard earned money for something that may last a year, or maybe only a day or two before fatiging and giving up.

Like I mentioned in the other post, it's just my personal feelings/beliefs. You are free to do as you wish, and I wish you the best of luck on whatever you decide to buy.

Will P.C.
05-06-2011, 12:56 AM
I see the main problems as 'down time' and reliability. Reliability isn't something we can test right away though (i.e.how is the BEAST holding up after 5 years?)

I think guys are uneasy about something 'major' happening and having to go through the proper channels to get it fixed. All mowers (no matter the brand) can have something happen to them. What parts are available for a quick fix? If the BEAST can ensure speedy repairs and ready parts, than it should not be an issue.

My local John Deere and Scag and Stihl dealers suck. Yes, I have spent big money with all of them and tried the create a relationship. I could tell you quite a few stories about all of them. Many guys on here have issues with their dealers.

I am going to go check out the BEAST this weekend. I will give a report when I get done testing it. A guy I know bought one for his yard.

GordonwJackson
05-06-2011, 05:53 PM
I appreciate all the interest in a direct mower comparison. I think nothing but positive things can come out of it. Over time, it may cause improvements in all mowers if this is done honestly and with some thought.

Some basic ground rules of objectivity and a genuine interest in a fair comparison is required by all participants. If participants are not interested in a fair comparison and are coming with an agenda, then the event will not be very successful.

We want to take all-stock mowers (blades, belts, engine settings, etc.), operate the mowers within the manufacturer's published limitations (maybe you need to read up on what hill angle voids your engine warranty?) and let the data speak.

Participants must drop their pre-conceived notions about what makes a mower good or bad and let the test results speak for themselves.

The key is to achieve a set of objective, representative, repeatable tests that cover the range of demands experienced by the majority of LCOs. This way the data can speak for itself and others can duplicate the results in the future if so desired.

It is important to remove all the subjectivity from the the test results. When you do this, often the data delivers some surprises.

This type of testing has been done before in other industries. A test matrix can be created and some statistical analysis can be developed to remove bias by repeating tests several times with the same driver and again with different drivers to remove bias...remember we are testing the machines not the drivers! :)

When I see comments related to this test like commie crap etc. I conclude first the member is not very knowledgeable about the products being discussed and second, that member would likley not be a very good participant in an impartial test process. Similarly GMLC, you stated today on another thread that it was your opinion that the BEAST cut quality must not be good and that GXi had performed little deck R&D. The reply to you from another Lawnsite member you asked was that you were incorrect, the cut quality was quite good. The exchange told be much about your pre-disposed bias. Without any knowledge other than a price point, you jump to some pretty wild, baseless conclusions about a mower and a company you know little about. I am concerned about your tendency to do this. I need a commitment from you that we are approaching a test between mowers from the perspective of having a fair and thoughtful comparison free of bias. If your intent is to apply your bias and skew the results, then the test will not work out.

Gordon

GMLC
05-06-2011, 06:05 PM
I appreciate all the interest in a direct mower comparison. I think nothing but positive things can come out of it. Over time, it may cause improvements in all mowers if this is done honestly and with some thought.

Some basic ground rules of objectivity and a genuine interest in a fair comparison is required by all participants. If participants are not interested in a fair comparison and are coming with an agenda, then the event will not be very successful.

We want to take all-stock mowers (blades, belts, engine settings, etc.), operate the mowers within the manufacturer's published limitations (maybe you need to read up on what hill angle voids your engine warranty?) and let the data speak.

Participants must drop their pre-conceived notions about what makes a mower good or bad and let the test results speak for themselves.

The key is to achieve a set of objective, representative, repeatable tests that cover the range of demands experienced by the majority of LCOs. This way the data can speak for itself and others can duplicate the results in the future if so desired.

It is important to remove all the subjectivity from the the test results. When you do this, often the data delivers some surprises.

This type of testing has been done before in other industries. A test matrix can be created and some statistical analysis can be developed to remove bias by repeating tests several times with the same driver and again with different drivers to remove bias...remember we are testing the machines not the drivers! :)

When I see comments related to this test like commie crap etc. I conclude first the member is not very knowledgeable about the products being discussed and second, that member would likley not be a very good participant in an impartial test process. Similarly GMLC, you stated today on another thread that it was your opinion that the BEAST cut quality must not be good and that GXi had performed little deck R&D. The reply to you from another Lawnsite member you asked was that you were incorrect, the cut quality was quite good. The exchange told be much about your pre-disposed bias. Without any knowledge other than a price point, you jump to some pretty wild, baseless conclusions about a mower and a company you know little about. I am concerned about your tendency to do this. I need a commitment from you that we are approaching a test between mowers from the perspective of having a fair and thoughtful comparison free of bias. If your intent is to apply your bias and skew the results, then the test will not work out.

Gordon

We will let the tests speak for themselves. My opinion is just that, an opinion. The reply from the other thread about cut quality of the beast was this "as far as cut quality the z beast was nice, i didnt notice any scalping, or uneveness. i have a section of my yard that has some sort of really thick grass that is really dense, the beast dropped more rpm when going thru that, the exmark cut it and discharged it like a alabama dust storm out the shute. i think i need to wear a breathing mask thru that crap!"
To me that sounds like the beast doesnt have the discharge pressure like the exmark does and lacked a little in power. But we will see...

Richard Martin
05-06-2011, 06:14 PM
When I see comments related to this test like commie crap etc. I conclude first the member is not very knowledgeable about the products being discussed and second, that member would likley not be a very good participant in an impartial test process.

If your mower is mostly Chinese commie crap steel then that's what it is. You can try to twist it anyway that you want.

And you're right, I wouldn't make a good participant, but only mostly because I don't believe your mowers should even be in this country. :usflag:

Use steel that is rolled and formed in the United States and we can talk. :usflag:

GMLC
05-06-2011, 07:02 PM
Gordon,

I don't think you realize what your competition is and how good the top commercial mowers really are. You also underestimate how picky professional landscapers are. We tear apart the top commercial mower companies all the time, mowers that cost over $10k. Its all over these threads. "This mower clumps, this one only cuts good on certain grasses, this one rides a little rough and this one is not good on hills". There are only minute differences in the top commercial mowers and we nit pick them to death. Pro's are like a wild trout, a trout will only go for the best fly and one out of place hair makes all the difference in the world.

These tests will not be easy, they will not be recommended by the manufacturer, they will be real world tests that us pro's do everyday. Maybe even some things we don't dare do everyday!!!

flatlander42
05-06-2011, 08:49 PM
sounds like somebody is backing out allready. We have yet to see any simple youtube videos. WHO cares who sits on the mowers. Let a variety of people drive the thing.

Gorden.....Just make the videos so we could at least watch them. If they are out there, may I see a link please?

GordonwJackson
05-06-2011, 09:06 PM
Gordon,

I don't think you realize what your competition is and how good the top commercial mowers really are. You also underestimate how picky professional landscapers are. We tear apart the top commercial mower companies all the time, mowers that cost over $10k. Its all over these threads. "This mower clumps, this one only cuts good on certain grasses, this one rides a little rough and this one is not good on hills". There are only minute differences in the top commercial mowers and we nit pick them to death. Pro's are like a wild trout, a trout will only go for the best fly and one out of place hair makes all the difference in the world.

These tests will not be easy, they will not be recommended by the manufacturer, they will be real world tests that us pro's do everyday. Maybe even some things we don't dare do everyday!!!



GMLC,

I too read the threads on this site and others. I agree, most of the discussion boils down to a lot of personal preferences and the discussions are mostly void of any hard data or information. Basically the Chevy versus Ford type arguments.

To GXi the purpose of the test is straightforward...compare the BEAST ZTR and BEAST walk behinds against the incumbents in the industry and see what the results say...based upon hard data...not a swag or opinion. If the difference between a $10k mower and a $4k mower is maybe a small clump of grass every 150' ...then so be it, let the data speak! Then its out there for all to see.

GXi is interested in fair tests that represent the conditions most LCOs experience day-in-and-day-out. The majority of LCOs cut residential lots and commercial properties...pretty typical geography and grasses. It doesn't serve our interests to seek out the extreme conditions (really steep hills that might test the ROPS or 36" high grass or terrain full of deep potholes and rocks). It may be more fun to test extremes and do donuts and skid diagonally down a steep hill, but it doesn't mean much to most serious LCOs except for entertainment value. Rather than geographic extremes, I think performance in dry and wet conditions on pretty typical terrain and grasses is maybe of more interest and represents the daily issues confronted by LCOs.

You can pick apart the minute differences all you want between various $10k mowers. I really don't care. That is not GXi's objective with a side by side test. We offer one big difference...its about $5k in your pocket. Now, what do you really give up in terms of performance, quality, durability in exchange for these savings? That seems to be the real question most on Lawnsite.com are asking.

If you are serious about a side-by-side test, we are happy to participate. It could be fun and educational for all involved. Maybe even us lowly folks down here in NC that apparently know nothing about mowers can maybe show you a thing or two? :)

Let me know if this vision of a test fits with yours.

Gordon

GordonwJackson
05-06-2011, 09:22 PM
sounds like somebody is backing out allready. We have yet to see any simple youtube videos. WHO cares who sits on the mowers. Let a variety of people drive the thing.

Gorden.....Just make the videos so we could at least watch them. If they are out there, may I see a link please?



Videos are being prepared, edited and posted a few per week. If the links don't show up on this site as they are posted I will bring them to your attention. The request list is quite long. It will take a few weeks to get a range of videos posted. There seems to be a lot of interest in why we put a 22hp on a 36" walk behind. :) The video will tell the story and show the results. Also, hill climbing on the 62" Z-BEAST is of interest. That will be posted soon as well.

Gordon

GMLC
05-06-2011, 09:25 PM
Hey, I have family in New Bern NC and they know a lot about mowing!! My old girl is ready!! I suggest real world conditions with hills, wet grass, dry grass and maybe some 5" or so tall grass. Nothing crazy, just normal NH properties would make sense. Im looking for one property that will have a variety of conditions so we dont have to move the equipment around. My opinion wont matter because we can find third party judges. Maybe the third party judges should determine the tests too? I posted more pics in the 2011 stripe picture thread if you want to look.

braylonjones
05-06-2011, 11:57 PM
Just in case you missed this:

Gordon Jackson...

Literally pulled your posts up at a local store...2450 Cumberland Parkway, Atlanta, Georgia. We're talking right down the street from Home Depot headquarters. The store manager called some "head of tractors guy". This "head guy" said no machines would be sent to stores for demo in a simple hands on format or any other format. The manager was obviously frustrated with my request and persistent confidence in info provided by yourself...kept saying he didn't mean to insult my intelligence. Went as well as two alpha males debating a subject with different sets of facts could go. Glad I'm an humble guy...knew this type of interaction was possible...seems like a communication problem within Home Depot...or you don't exist. True...I want to save money on start up costs...used toro/exmark seems to be just as risky but proven...for similar prices.

Anyway...gonna look at the northern tool version...just to see what GXI is capable of. Thinking the customer service experience will be much better.

GordonwJackson
05-07-2011, 05:55 AM
Just in case you missed this:

Gordon Jackson...

Literally pulled your posts up at a local store...2450 Cumberland Parkway, Atlanta, Georgia. We're talking right down the street from Home Depot headquarters. The store manager called some "head of tractors guy". This "head guy" said no machines would be sent to stores for demo in a simple hands on format or any other format. The manager was obviously frustrated with my request and persistent confidence in info provided by yourself...kept saying he didn't mean to insult my intelligence. Went as well as two alpha males debating a subject with different sets of facts could go. Glad I'm an humble guy...knew this type of interaction was possible...seems like a communication problem within Home Depot...or you don't exist. True...I want to save money on start up costs...used toro/exmark seems to be just as risky but proven...for similar prices.

Anyway...gonna look at the northern tool version...just to see what GXI is capable of. Thinking the customer service experience will be much better.



I asked GXi's Home Depot account executive to investigate. He lives very close to that store as well. He went to the store and the manager did not know what this issue was about. Nobody claimed to know about this situation. If you send me a private message with a name of the person at the store you were dealing with, I am sure we can get to the bottom of it.

MJB
05-07-2011, 11:35 AM
Hey, I have family in New Bern NC and they know a lot about mowing!! My old girl is ready!! I suggest real world conditions with hills, wet grass, dry grass and maybe some 5" or so tall grass. Nothing crazy, just normal NH properties would make sense. Im looking for one property that will have a variety of conditions so we dont have to move the equipment around. My opinion wont matter because we can find third party judges. Maybe the third party judges should determine the tests too? I posted more pics in the 2011 stripe picture thread if you want to look.

I thought you had a Turf Tiger , I hate the sulky look it ruins the stripe imo.
Do you have some hilly thick turf to test on? I guess I'm only interested in the ZTR comparisons notso much the walk behinds.

GMLC
05-07-2011, 11:39 AM
Wish I had a TT. I agree sulky does ruin the stripes. Yes plenty of hills with thick grass in NH. And we will have Z's during the test!
Posted via Mobile Device

braylonjones
05-07-2011, 03:25 PM
I asked GXi's Home Depot account executive to investigate. He lives very close to that store as well. He went to the store and the manager did not know what this issue was about. Nobody claimed to know about this situation. If you send me a private message with a name of the person at the store you were dealing with, I am sure we can get to the bottom of it.

Just in case I heard wrong...let's say a manger...not specifically the store manager. No way I'm posting or giving another stranger's personal info over the net period. If you exist...there is a pretty good chance that Home Depot doesn't care about stepping outside the retail format that governs...i don't know...a whole helluva alot of the way they do business? Yep...sounds like us early adopter type folks and GXI won't be getting around the traditional dealer for a while. At least I have an excellent neighborhood lawn mower repair shop right around the corner. But wait...how would I get parts to repair your machine?

Used top of the line commercial Toro/Exmark, Stihl, Walker, plenty of parts and the local repair guy...match made in heaven for a start up looking to grow throughout the green industry over time...responsibly grow that is. Yall (Home Dept/GXI) seem to be more suited for home owners that want to show off and can go an extra week or two without cutting. Maybe I can make having big lawnmowers cool or something...tell marketing to get on it. Need chrome wheels... Just joking...seriously...I'll help in any way I can.

For the record...unless GXI can persuade Home Depot Inc. to change it's business model today...I support that manager's reaction to my request. He was only functioning off of info presented to him...he said "with all do respect" many times as well. Not his fault he wasn't trained on the new GXI and the like way of doing things. Want to go after this guy's source of info within Home Depot? Ok...I'll meet any representative at the 2450 Cumberland Pkwy store #121 and pull this website up at the customer service desk just like I did the first day I went there. Just seems like the deck is stacked against you though. Or..you could accept this as a request for a sampling of "beast" products in store at the aforementioned store. The young lady that initially helped me in the lawn/garden area tried to keep this from happening...bless her heart...she wanted me to put my hands on a "Beast" asap...wanted to do a search for a store that may have some products. And she did know the difference between the mowers in store...knew to comment on the machine requested being needed for 2+ acres. So...this is not a a local store problem...from top to bottom those folks were on their jobs.

PM me with professional contact info (no cell phone...something that routes through a phone system with live operators or a (business name).com email address and we can go from there. Atlanta, Ga...the whole "Six Degrees of Separation" thing is cut in half here. The person I intended to complain about this to had personal and professional (Home Depot) concerns in Alabama that I just learned of when I called to complain. The person lives here in the Atlanta area and was noticeably shaken...I don't watch TV much...was sleep or out working in the yard...had no idea Alabama had gone through what it did. Didn't make sense until I saw pictures... Everybody can be selfish...but I'm not that selfish...decided to let it go...until I saw you started commenting again.

This is my last post re: this matter. Looking forward to receiving your professional contact information. If I don't hear from you...fine...and I won't post anything about not hearing from you...gotta be an adult about this.

Take care

braylonjones
05-07-2011, 04:10 PM
Just in case I heard wrong...let's say a manger...not specifically the store manager. No way I'm posting or giving another stranger's personal info over the net period. If you exist...there is a pretty good chance that Home Depot doesn't care about stepping outside the retail format that governs...i don't know...a whole helluva alot of the way they do business? Yep...sounds like us early adopter type folks and GXI won't be getting around the traditional dealer for a while. At least I have an excellent neighborhood lawn mower repair shop right around the corner. But wait...how would I get parts to repair your machine?

Used top of the line commercial Toro/Exmark, Stihl, Walker, plenty of parts and the local repair guy...match made in heaven for a start up looking to grow throughout the green industry over time...responsibly grow that is. Yall (Home Dept/GXI) seem to be more suited for home owners that want to show off and can go an extra week or two without cutting. Maybe I can make having big lawnmowers cool or something...tell marketing to get on it. Need chrome wheels... Just joking...seriously...I'll help in any way I can.

For the record...unless GXI can persuade Home Depot Inc. to change it's business model today...I support that manager's reaction to my request. He was only functioning off of info presented to him...he said "with all do respect" many times as well. Not his fault he wasn't trained on the new GXI and the like way of doing things. Want to go after this guy's source of info within Home Depot? Ok...I'll meet any representative at the 2450 Cumberland Pkwy store #121 and pull this website up at the customer service desk just like I did the first day I went there. Just seems like the deck is stacked against you though. Or..you could accept this as a request for a sampling of "beast" products in store at the aforementioned store. The young lady that initially helped me in the lawn/garden area tried to keep this from happening...bless her heart...she wanted me to put my hands on a "Beast" asap...wanted to do a search for a store that may have some products. And she did know the difference between the mowers in store...knew to comment on the machine requested being needed for 2+ acres. So...this is not a a local store problem...from top to bottom those folks were on their jobs.

PM me with professional contact info (no cell phone...something that routes through a phone system with live operators or a (business name).com email address and we can go from there. Atlanta, Ga...the whole "Six Degrees of Separation" thing is cut in half here. The person I intended to complain about this to had personal and professional (Home Depot) concerns in Alabama that I just learned of when I called to complain. The person lives here in the Atlanta area and was noticeably shaken...I don't watch TV much...was sleep or out working in the yard...had no idea Alabama had gone through what it did. Didn't make sense until I saw pictures... Everybody can be selfish...but I'm not that selfish...decided to let it go...until I saw you started commenting again.

This is my last post re: this matter. Looking forward to receiving your professional contact information. If I don't hear from you...fine...and I won't post anything about not hearing from you...gotta be an adult about this.

Take care

Two clarifications to make sure I communicate my experience correctly:

1. "But wait...how would I get parts to repair your machine?" -

- As a consumer...how do I get parts same day? Answer given elsewhere on this thread or the site... got it.

2. "The young lady that initially helped me in the lawn/garden area tried to keep this from happening...bless her heart"

- She knew they didn't have anything on hand...wanted to do better than just requesting...wanted me to see something at a store somewhere that day.

Details matter...

Will P.C.
05-07-2011, 05:04 PM
Since BEAST has partnered w/ home depot, demo units should be made available. I know I would have a hard time finding someone working that actually had enough power to order the BEAST as a demo. Bottom line is the mower needs to be in the stores.

rowdiestang
05-07-2011, 05:54 PM
looks like it is junk to me

LawnDon
05-07-2011, 09:31 PM
rowdiestang "looks like it is junk to me"

Thats all you can say. Put a little more thought into it. We have not made it 20 pages on this topic with one liners like that. Please put in some constructive input.

superdog1
05-08-2011, 09:33 PM
rowdiestang "looks like it is junk to me"

Thats all you can say. Put a little more thought into it. We have not made it 20 pages on this topic with one liners like that. Please put in some constructive input.

Yeppers. I am going to second that one. This is a long thread with a lot of good and productive discussions being had by all parties involved. It is a normal first impression to label any item you have never touched, used or driven "Junk", especially if it comes from a large retail store like Home Depot, Lowes, Walmart etc.

In this case, the CO in question (GXi), or should I say the man representing the CO in question (Gordon) has been NOTHING but professional and his mannerisms alone make me want to buy this unit.

While my opinion is worthless for the most part, as I have only been an LCO for only 2 months, I have been working on all types of machinery, both large AND small since I could pick up a wrench. I have seen both sides of the argument in question and I do believe it is possible to make a mower that will be at LEAST as good as the name brand stuff for a LOT less than we are paying now. I guess and hope we will see very soon?:rolleyes:

GMLC
05-09-2011, 11:00 AM
Just watched some videos of the beast on you tube. The hydro gear unit powers the rear wheels through belts to a final drive at each wheel. Does any other commercial mower company do this? I thought most used hydro wheel motors or direct link from the hydo gear to the wheels with no belts involved. I dont know how I feel about belt driven wheels from the hydro unit.

Ridin' Green
05-09-2011, 12:36 PM
Just watched some videos of the beast on you tube. The hydro gear unit powers the rear wheels through belts to a final drive at each wheel. Does any other commercial mower company do this? I thought most used hydro wheel motors or direct link from the hydo gear to the wheels with no belts involved. I dont know how I feel about belt driven wheels from the hydro unit.

Could you post a link to what you saw/watched? I'd really appreciate it, and probably so would many others since we haven't been able to view the ones mentioned by Gordon.

Thanks

GMLC
05-09-2011, 12:40 PM
Could you post a link to what you saw/watched? I'd really appreciate it, and probably so would many others since we haven't been able to view the ones mentioned by Gordon.

Thanks


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWi-I2jwmcA

Richard Martin
05-09-2011, 01:05 PM
Good Lord! That is the most bizarre thing I've ever seen. All I can say is I hope they have some really good lawyers at GXI. I can see someone getting injured using the factory procedure for belt adjustment. I'll stickl to my American mowers thank you.

Ridin' Green
05-09-2011, 01:13 PM
Thanks. I don't believe that I'd like to have a belt to run my final drive, especially so close to the wheel where wet grass and water from the grass surface could cause it to slip. Maybe it's better protected than it appears on their video.

I found this one below even more interesting though. It looks like either the guy was too lazy to adjust the machine for a comfortable fit, or it is a poor design. He looks to be raching way too much to be comfortable for very long.

Too, the seat bottom looks like it is rather short in length. I wouldn't be very comfortable on that either since I am tall with long legs.-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VduhhEdvg8&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

TNGrassCutter
05-09-2011, 01:14 PM
One question. I personally have never seen a commercial ztr that can run and drive levers be engaged with no one one the seat. So are they suggesting bypassing safety features such as rigging the switch where you don't have to be in the seat to run the mower?
Posted via Mobile Device

GMLC
05-09-2011, 01:33 PM
I still cant get over the belt drive to the wheels. Am I crazy or has anyone ever seen this before on a hydro commercial mower?

flatlander42
05-09-2011, 02:01 PM
it seems like he has to push and pull the drive levers a long way....but that is pry just me and my ignorance.

TNGrassCutter
05-09-2011, 02:32 PM
I still cant get over the belt drive to the wheels. Am I crazy or has anyone ever seen this before on a hydro commercial mower?

The ones rural king used to sell. Swisher maybe? Had belt drive rear wheels. Not sure is call that a commercial mower though. I know someone who had one cuz it was cheaper. Well he got what he paid for.
Posted via Mobile Device

All_Toro_4ME
05-09-2011, 05:01 PM
Subscribing. Grabbing the popcorn....

StanWilhite
05-09-2011, 10:24 PM
Subscribing. Grabbing the popcorn....

Better get the large popcorn....it's gonna get interesting! :)

Ridin' Green
05-09-2011, 10:45 PM
http://i555.photobucket.com/albums/jj456/Gun4Fun/gun%20pictures/popcorn.gif

Will P.C.
05-10-2011, 03:51 AM
I used one this weekend. A guy I know bought one for his house. The cut was nice and it took down taller grass w/o a problem. This doesn't tell you much since I have seen some really crappy mowers give a great cut. It felt solid and sturdy. None of this tells you anything though.

My concerns are with the guys cutting 10 hours a day for years to come. How will this machine hold up 5 years from now in the commercial world? How will HD handle a broken machine under warranty? How fast will the owner get his mower back?

A new guy starting out might not have any other mowers.

GMLC
05-10-2011, 06:50 AM
It would help if you provided a link so we know where your getting this info.
Why you guys are so defensive makes no sense to me.

That mower in the video looks like a good one for the newbe who can't afford anything else. Looks like it cuts fine and is a step above the rest of the mowers sold in box stores. So it's no threat to anyone who wants to buy a more expensive mower, but the bottom line is how the cut looks when the job is done. Obviously that guy is not a lawncare professional just by watching him going around in squares . We want to see what it looks like after mowing down and turning around and coming straight back. This is what I said would happen when guys try to demonstrate a mower. They act like there on a race track going every which way but the right way, to show off what the mower is capable of. If a lawncare professional got on that mower how good would the lawn look when finished ? Thats what I want to see.

Sorry MJB I have no website or proof other than my uncle's word who lives in NC and knew about GXI International. He is an honest man if that means anything to you. I will no longer be commenting on the Beast or entertaing a test. Gordon still has not returned my calls or emails. He is an expert in many industries and is an excelent salesman and president of GXI...PM me if you want more info.

GordonwJackson
05-10-2011, 07:05 AM
Sorry MJB I have no website or proof other than my uncle's word who lives in NC and knew about GXI International. He is an honest man if that means anything to you. I will no longer be commenting on the Beast or entertaing a test. Gordon still has not returned my calls or emails. He is an expert in many industries and is an excelent salesman and president of GXI...PM me if you want more info.



GMLC...

The shareholders of GXi Outdoor Power, LLC own several other businesses as well, unrelated to outdoor power equipment. I am not sure I follow your logic. Your rants make little sense.

Yes, GXi International, LLC makes different products than GXi Outdoor Power, LLC as does Access HD, LLC. And your point is...?


You are backing out of a head-on test? Maybe somebody else will accept the challenge then.


Gordon

samendolaro
05-10-2011, 08:46 AM
My brother drives a chemical disposal truck for the Mob in Jersey.. And because of that I can't eat meatballs anymore..

If the person who understands that can please tell me why GMLC actually backed out it would be greatly appreciated.

GMLC
05-10-2011, 08:53 AM
My brother drives a chemical disposal truck for the Mob in Jersey.. And because of that I can't eat meatballs anymore..

If the person who understands that can please tell me why GMLC actually backed out it would be greatly appreciated.

Simple, I will not support GXI in any way. I will not comment anymore in this thread either. Good luck with your purchase.

All_Toro_4ME
05-10-2011, 08:58 AM
22 pages all for an abrupt disappointment.... :confused:

samendolaro
05-10-2011, 09:10 AM
So it appears that what started as a test to prove that the Beast was a piece of Chinese Junk has now turned to "Supporting GXI"

Well yes... if the beast could show that it could perform as stated it would be a boon for the company. That is the way it works.. Did you think GXI was going up there so you could trash them and no one would purchase after you left them in the dust ?

This whole challenge came up because you were talking trash about the beast mowers and their place of origin without ever having tried one. You didn't seem to have a problem flaming them ... Now that you had the chance to actually back up all your talk. You give a vague answer about not wanting to support GXI in any way but won't give a reason other then they make other things and your Uncle knows them. You make a claim then back it up... Maybe we won't support them as well if we know what the hell your talking about.

Mark Oomkes
05-10-2011, 09:48 AM
I still cant get over the belt drive to the wheels. Am I crazy or has anyone ever seen this before on a hydro commercial mower?

Sure there have been, back in the early 80's I ran mowers that had belt drives.

Wait, those were walk behinds.

And it really sucked running them in any type of moisture cuz the belts would slip and you couldn't drive up the slightest hill as soon as they got wet.

Could've sworn that's why now most WB's even have hydro drive. Guess I was mistaken.

Never mind, those weren't even hydro drive, good ole Peerless transmissions. Either way, they sucked in wet conditions.

Thanks. I don't believe that I'd like to have a belt to run my final drive, especially so close to the wheel where wet grass and water from the grass surface could cause it to slip. Maybe it's better protected than it appears on their video.

Bah, it was a great deal, just think of all the money you'll be saving and keeping Jonny Chinaman working.

I found this one below even more interesting though. It looks like either the guy was too lazy to adjust the machine for a comfortable fit, or it is a poor design. He looks to be raching way too much to be comfortable for very long.

Duh, that's because the final drive belts are so stretched out that's the only way he could get full speed.

Too, the seat bottom looks like it is rather short in length. I wouldn't be very comfortable on that either since I am tall with long legs.-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VduhhEdvg8&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Looks like a great homeowner mower, maybe.

The old saying will be forever true: You get what you pay for.

Ridin' Green
05-10-2011, 01:21 PM
Sure there have been, back in the early 80's I ran mowers that had belt drives.

Wait, those were walk behinds.

And it really sucked running them in any type of moisture cuz the belts would slip and you couldn't drive up the slightest hill as soon as they got wet.

Could've sworn that's why now most WB's even have hydro drive. Guess I was mistaken.

Never mind, those weren't even hydro drive, good ole Peerless transmissions. Either way, they sucked in wet conditions.



Looks like a great homeowner mower, maybe.

The old saying will be forever true: You get what you pay for.

I was merely making an observation/personal opinion while trying not to attack one side or the other. If you go back and read any of my earlier posts in this thread, you'll see I have no intention of supporting "johnnychinaman" or anyone/place else doing business with China if at all possible, which is getting harder to do every day. These mowers may be great, or they may be crap. I don't know firsthand, and never will because I will never buy one simply because they are made in China, and I am an American. I support this country. I do have an interest in how well they will do here though, and that is why I am following this thread- to learn all that I can about them.

samendolaro
05-10-2011, 02:03 PM
Don't peddle that "Made in America" crap here.. I guarantee you that whatever mower you bought it has parts not Made here and chances are the engine wasn't either. People don't know the meaning of that anymore . You hear that from companies trying to sell you on patriotism and from unions trying to get to to keep their employees salaries too high. There are few products actually made here and sorry "assembled here doesn't count."

Your fooling none but yourself.




I was merely making an observation/personal opinion while trying not to attack one side or the other. If you go back and read any of my earlier posts in this thread, you'll see I have no intention of supporting "johnnychinaman" or anyone/place else doing business with China if at all possible, which is getting harder to do every day. These mowers may be great, or they may be crap. I don't know firsthand, and never will because I will never buy one simply because they are made in China, and I am an American. I support this country. I do have an interest in how well they will do here though, and that is why I am following this thread- to learn all that I can about them.

Ridin' Green
05-10-2011, 02:21 PM
Don't peddle that "Made in America" crap here.. I guarantee you that whatever mower you bought it has parts not Made here and chances are the engine wasn't either. People don't know the meaning of that anymore . You hear that from companies trying to sell you on patriotism and from unions trying to get to to keep their employees salaries too high. There are few products actually made here and sorry "assembled here doesn't count."

Your fooling none but yourself.

I'll say this flat out- I have followed this thread and the other, and in both you have come across as someone who like to bully others if they don't see thinngs you way. It won't work with me. I am an American, and if you don't like that, too friggin bad for you. You are free to buy what you want, and so am I. I am not sure if you already bought a beast mower, or are seriously consdiering doing so. It appears to me that in this, and the other thread you are hoping to hear answers to bolster your decision. Maybe that's not the case, but that's how it comes off. Maybe you are the nicest guy in the world, but it doesn't come off that way here from the posts of yours I have read so far.

Read my post above, and the others I have made in this thread. I have stated repeatedly that it is almost impossible to buy something totally made here these days, and my machine is no different.

I have also stated this once already, but in case it's too much work for you to go back to read it, I'll say it again-I have no problem with things coming from Japan, Europe, etc., since they are not buying our debt and trying to devalue our dollar to anywhere near the extent that China is, if at all, and things that come from those countries are far superior as a general rule to anything that comes from China. When was the last time you heard about a major recall on anything coming from one any country other than China outside of the auto industry? You and others who onely want "the best deal I can get at the moment" are simply helping China out with that mentallity. If our trade arrangement was more fair, and they weren't manipulating the currency to favor themselves, I may not have as much probelm with them. Keep buying Chinese products and eventually that is all you will be able to buy here.:rolleyes:

Too, I have seen far too many metal parts from China break prematurely from inadequate hardening/poor quality steels, and I have no interest in spending my hard earned cash on anything that is sub-par, and won't last as long as an equal American made part (or Europen, etc).

Like I have said before, the beast may be a good machine, or it may not, and I am not debating that. I don't realy care about that. I do care that it comes from China.

samendolaro
05-10-2011, 02:25 PM
Go spew your hate somewhere else. If you know that GXI is using substandard parts then state it . I can care less about what else you bought from China. If it wasn't a GXI product its not relevant. Believe it or not China is bigger then your back yard. you can't group all the products from a country that size in one category. To do that with no data to back it up is pure ignorance. Of which you have plenty.

Oh and BTW.. if by bully you mean I like people to actually know what they are talking about and have facts to back them up besides their own bias then yes i am..

Ridin' Green
05-10-2011, 02:29 PM
I am not the one who attacked your post. It was the OTHER way around.
It isn't spewing hate either. It is stating my opinion which is still allowed under the constitution as far as I know, same as it is for you.

You seem to be strongly in their corner. Are you an emploee, or heavily invested in them.? If so, you should at least state it openly like Gordon did. Do you have proof that their parts are as well made as their competition? Of cousre not. Unless you work for them (and I certainly do not) then neither one of us has actual access to their data. Besides that, I have not made any claims here or elsewhere that they are currently using inferior parts. I simplystated what most honest people already know- the chinese generlly make inferior steels to US steel.
I will say again that Gordon has represented his company most admirably here, and if he were selling American made products that in no way benefitted China, I would be buying them in quantity simply because of his demeanor here.

Mark Oomkes
05-10-2011, 02:32 PM
I was merely making an observation/personal opinion while trying not to attack one side or the other. If you go back and read any of my earlier posts in this thread, you'll see I have no intention of supporting "johnnychinaman" or anyone/place else doing business with China if at all possible, which is getting harder to do every day. These mowers may be great, or they may be crap. I don't know firsthand, and never will because I will never buy one simply because they are made in China, and I am an American. I support this country. I do have an interest in how well they will do here though, and that is why I am following this thread- to learn all that I can about them.

I wasn't picking on you or implying that you were supporting him. Just used your post to agree with.

And it was sarcasm, used to make a point about how they cheapened up a product and made it inferior to a true commercial mower.

I really hadn't paid much attention to this thread for awhile, but was bored and caught the whole belt drive thing. What a joke, that isn't commercial grade, there's a reason no other major manufacturer uses belts as final drive.

So we're cool. :drinkup:

Don't peddle that "Made in America" crap here.. I guarantee you that whatever mower you bought it has parts not Made here and chances are the engine wasn't either. People don't know the meaning of that anymore . You hear that from companies trying to sell you on patriotism and from unions trying to get to to keep their employees salaries too high. There are few products actually made here and sorry "assembled here doesn't count."

Your fooling none but yourself.

You are correct, there is nothing completely made in America and very few items even assembled in America anymore.

But I think most of the major truly commercial mower manufacturers are assembled here in USA. So the least we can do is buy a truly commercial grade mower that is assembled here in the states, we've lost enough jobs overseas.

And before you call me ignorant on the whole made in America thing or a union lover, check my posts.

Ridin' Green
05-10-2011, 02:37 PM
I wasn't picking on you or implying that you were supporting him. Just used your post to agree with.

And it was sarcasm, used to make a point about how they cheapened up a product and made it inferior to a true commercial mower.

I really hadn't paid much attention to this thread for awhile, but was bored and caught the whole belt drive thing. What a joke, that isn't commercial grade, there's a reason no other major manufacturer uses belts as final drive.

So we're cool. :drinkup:



You are correct, there is nothing completely made in America and very few items even assembled in America anymore.

But I think most of the major truly commercial mower manufacturers are assembled here in USA. So the least we can do is buy a truly commercial grade mower that is assembled here in the states, we've lost enough jobs overseas.

And before you call me ignorant on the whole made in America thing or a union lover, check my posts.

No, I know you weren't attacking me, and actually I got a good laugh from your post. I just wanted to make sure that you know where I stand in case you were late to this thread.

Yea, we're cool.:usflag:

Mark Oomkes
05-10-2011, 02:45 PM
Go spew your hate somewhere else. If you know that GXI is using substandard parts then state it . I can care less about what else you bought from China. If it wasn't a GXI product its not relevant. Believe it or not China is bigger then your back yard. you can't group all the products from a country that size in one category. To do that with no data to back it up is pure ignorance. Of which you have plenty.

Oh and BTW.. if by bully you mean I like people to actually know what they are talking about and have facts to back them up besides their own bias then yes i am..

I am not the one who attacked your post. It was the OTHER way around.
It isn't spewing hate either. It is stating my opinion which is still allowed under the constitution as far as I know, same as it is for you.

You seem to be strongly in their corner. Are you an emploee, or heavily invested in them.? If so, you should at least state it openly like Gordon did. Do you have proof that their parts are as well made as their competition? Of cousre not. Unless you work for them (and I certainly do not) then neither one of us has actual access to their data. Besides that, I have not made any claims here or elsewhere that they are currently using inferior parts. I simplystated what most honest people already know- the chinese generlly make inferior steels to US steel.
I will say again that Gordon has represented his company most admirably here, and if he were selling American made products that in no way benefitted China, I would be buying them in quantity simply because of his demeanor here.

And here we have it. Out of 71 posts in the last month, every single one of them is in a Beast thread. I didn't read all of them, but most are supporting the product or ripping anyone who doesn't think it is the best thing since knee-high socks.

So samednalarowhatever, what stake do you have in the Beast, exactly? Dealer? Wait, can't be that, Home Cheapo is the "dealer". Servicing dealer\warranty fix-it shop? You are far more than an impartial bystander, so let's hear it.

Ridin' Green
05-10-2011, 02:47 PM
Go spew your hate somewhere else. If you know that GXI is using substandard parts then state it . I can care less about what else you bought from China. If it wasn't a GXI product its not relevant. Believe it or not China is bigger then your back yard. you can't group all the products from a country that size in one category. To do that with no data to back it up is pure ignorance. Of which you have plenty.

Oh and BTW.. if by bully you mean I like people to actually know what they are talking about and have facts to back them up besides their own bias then yes i am..

As for your last edit- You have not posted any facts in any post that I have read of yours yet. It has all been your opinion on everything so far, and nothing more. Maybe you should practice what you preach and know what you are talking about before you post.

You are the one showing a total lack of intelligence, and class here. You are also showing total disregard for this country with your arrogant attitude. Like a wise man once told me, "You can't argue with a fool". I see he was right.

GordonwJackson
05-10-2011, 02:49 PM
When was the last time you heard about a major recall on anything coming from one any country other than China outside of the auto industry?

Too, I have seen far too many metal parts from China break prematurely from inadequate hardening/poor quality steels, and I have no interest in spending my hard earned cash on anything that is sub-par, and won't last as long as an equal American made part (or Europen, etc).

Like I have said before, the beast may be a good machine, or it may not, and I am not debating that. I don't realy care about that. I do care that it comes from China.



For clarification, (I am not trying to be smart, I just want you to be aware of the facts...it's not really the picture you are painting) I think you will find Toro and B&S have had some major recalls in the past year or so. Just by coincidence, yesterday's press release...


Riding mowers recalled
May 9, 2011

The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, in cooperation with Kohler Co. of Kohler, Wis., has recalled 10,000 lawn tractors sold under the Cub Cadet, Troy-Bilt and Husqvarna brands because of the possibility of injuries to users.

A wire connector on the lawn tractors’ engine can become disconnected, causing the operator's seat switch to fail. When this happens, the blades will not shut down, posing a laceration hazard to consumer.
This recall involves Kohler-made twin-cylinder engines sold with the three brands of lawn tractors. The vertical-shaft gasoline engines range in horsepower from 20 to 25. Manufactured in the United States, the products were sold at Lowe’s, Tractor Supply Co. and authorized Cub Cadet dealers nationwide from February 2011 through April 2011 for $1,500 to $5,700.
Consumers should immediately stop using the lawn tractors and contact an authorized Kohler dealer or the retail location where the tractor was purchased for a free inspection and repair.

samendolaro
05-10-2011, 02:52 PM
I don't own a beast, work for GXI or know anyone who does.

I have no problems with people who have bought it and hate it or have had problems or comparisons . This is all constructive and helps people like myself to make a purchasing decision.

Even if you don't want one but had a question as to why they did this or that.... Its all helpful since maybe its a question that needs to be asked.

But there have been plenty of posts that have no constructive value whatsoever and has no intention other then to get people not to consider the mower... Its not a real commercial mower, its made like crap, it won't last a season.... not from anyone that actually owns one or actually saw one in person. Quite frankly it gets under my skin.

If someone has some facts then Please post them but a post of opinions of something that they have no first hand knowledge of. is not fact.



I am still considering picking one up though. I have been critical of GXi in other threads so look..

BTW.. I am An RF Engineer.. nothing to do with anyone here.. no investments no ties

Ridin' Green
05-10-2011, 02:56 PM
Gordon,
I realize that there are recalls here (just like that one), but I have not seen any that made national news for a very long time like those that seem to come from China almost monthly.

Like I said before, you do a grand job of representing your company, and if you weren't involved with China, your charcter here in these threads would make me want to buy your product.
I have also said repeatedly that I don't know if your mowers are good or bad amd I never will firsthand because of the China factor. I have not once claimed that they are junk either. I have simply stated my misgivings on the quality of steel that comes from China, and on the trade and money practices of that country.

Will P.C.
05-10-2011, 03:32 PM
I do not think its fair to automatically assume the mower is crap b/c its made in China. In addition, most companies that boast American made are still getting pieces from China.

I went to China in Feb and got a chance to check out some manufacturing facilities. They are state of the art and top notch. These factories are capable of producing quality made items. Its the actual companies telling the factories to use cheaper this and cheaper that to keep production down

Mark Oomkes
05-10-2011, 03:51 PM
I do not think its fair to automatically assume the mower is crap b/c its made in China. In addition, most companies that boast American made are still getting pieces from China.

I went to China in Feb and got a chance to check out some manufacturing facilities. They are state of the art and top notch. These factories are capable of producing quality made items. Its the actual companies telling the factories to use cheaper this and cheaper that to keep production down

I'm not assuming it's crap because it was made in China, I'm assuming that because it's priced so much less than comparable commercial mowers.

Tell you what, do a search for Yugo, then come back and you'll understand my assumption.

But of course, my assumptions are also based on past experiences. You do get what you pay for.

samendolaro
05-10-2011, 04:05 PM
Gordon.

Have you provided any of these mowers for testing/review by a third party ? It would be good to see someone give these the once over now that the shootout is canceled .

samendolaro
05-10-2011, 04:27 PM
That's precisely why I want to see how it performs. I understand what GXI is trying to do with pricing . They are in Home Depot so they are going to sell tons of these to residential users. They can afford to cut their profit margins and rely on numbers . The advertising alone is almost priceless.

I am sure there are huge profit margins built into commercial mowers and it is precisely because of the volume of sales plus There is some price fixing in dealer networks to keep the prices of elite lines from dropping.

I'll withhold judgment on them being crap or not until i get my hands on one. (or see some more reviews) . In the end its still just a Mower. Is it really even worth 4k ?

I'm not assuming it's crap because it was made in China, I'm assuming that because it's priced so much less than comparable commercial mowers.
.

ReddensLawnCare
05-10-2011, 05:29 PM
Hey Gordan, I live right outside of Charlotte and I own a Scag 48 Walkbehind, and a Snapper Pro 150xt. Im not saying mine is better than yours b/c I have never tried one, but we are not that far away and if you would like to do what you were going to with GLMC, I would be more than happy to do that. PM with any info you need. I'll go head to head and we will see who will win, by the way the snapper is a 26/52 with the kawi and the scag is a 15/48 Kohler. Let me know and we will share it with the Lawnsite community!:usflag::usflag::usflag::weightlifter:

GordonwJackson
05-10-2011, 06:02 PM
Hey Gordan, I live right outside of Charlotte and I own a Scag 48 Walkbehind, and a Snapper Pro 150xt. Im not saying mine is better than yours b/c I have never tried one, but we are not that far away and if you would like to do what you were going to with GLMC, I would be more than happy to do that. PM with any info you need. I'll go head to head and we will see who will win, by the way the snapper is a 26/52 with the kawi and the scag is a 15/48 Kohler. Let me know and we will share it with the Lawnsite community!:usflag::usflag::usflag::weightlifter:


I sent you a PM with contact info. There a several others in NC that have expressed interest. Maybe we can coordinate a date that works for several Lawnsite members. There are also some local LCOs here that have had input into the mowers over the years...they may wish to participate as well.

flatlander42
05-10-2011, 06:40 PM
I sent you a PM with contact info. There a several others in NC that have expressed interest. Maybe we can coordinate a date that works for several Lawnsite members. There are also some local LCOs here that have had input into the mowers over the years...they may wish to participate as well.

Great, I do hope you can figure out something.

Unless you want to move this thing into the center of the country!!!!!:cool2:

Lawn Dog2001
05-10-2011, 06:51 PM
Should you decide not to go ahead with this "duel", I have a better idea for you.

Set up a demo for me for one of your walk behinds, and one of your zero turns. Let us work them for an eight hour day doing the hardest lawns on my schedule (plenty of hills and wet grass here in Pittsburgh). During the day I will be taking notes as to how the machines perform in different situations, what features I like and dislike about each machine, and how your machines stack up against my Exmarks.

Once the day is over, I will turn the machines back over to your people. Then I will get started on writing a complete, in detail, and un-biased review of your product.

The review will then be posted here, and if you like you can see about having it used in the Turf Magazine. Turf used to do reader product reviews but stopped for some reason. This may be a good chance to get that started again.

If you have any interest in this let me know.

GordonwJackson
05-10-2011, 07:04 PM
Should you decide not to go ahead with this "duel", I have a better idea for you.

Set up a demo for me for one of your walk behinds, and one of your zero turns. Let us work them for an eight hour day doing the hardest lawns on my schedule (plenty of hills and wet grass here in Pittsburgh). During the day I will be taking notes as to how the machines perform in different situations, what features I like and dislike about each machine, and how your machines stack up against my Exmarks.

Once the day is over, I will turn the machines back over to your people. Then I will get started on writing a complete, in detail, and un-biased review of your product.

The review will then be posted here, and if you like you can see about having it used in the Turf Magazine. Turf used to do reader product reviews but stopped for some reason. This may be a good chance to get that started again.

If you have any interest in this let me know.



It is a good idea. Let's disucss off-line and see if we can workout the details. Maybe we can do 2 or 3 events over the summer in different parts of the country. PM me with contact details.

Mark Oomkes
05-11-2011, 04:46 PM
I am sure there are huge profit margins built into commercial mowers

Yeah, me too. I bet there making $3-4K per mower. :rolleyes:

and it is precisely because of the volume of sales

Wait, if volume works for the Beast, what would keep one of the "big guys" from doing the same thing? (I know the answer, just wondering if you.)

plus There is some price fixing in dealer networks to keep the prices of elite lines from dropping.

Oh yeah, I'm sure of this too, because it isn't illegal or anything like that.

Again, why wouldn't Toro or Scag or Hustler drop prices and make a killing over their competitors.

I'll withhold judgment on them being crap or not until i get my hands on one. (or see some more reviews) . In the end its still just a Mower. Is it really even worth 4k ?

Sorry if I am still skeptical, over 70 posts all on one subject, so I am not buying you have no interest in this at all.

Do you know the history of the Yugo? If not I suggest some research on your part as this type of thing has been tried in the past. Not very successfully.

Monster Lawn Care
05-11-2011, 05:47 PM
"Do you know the history of the Yugo? If not I suggest some research on your part as this type of thing has been tried in the past. Not very successfully."

Enter Hyundai. They got started selling cheap, on volume and now are ranked right up there with Toyota and Honda.

samendolaro
05-11-2011, 06:42 PM
Sorry if I am still skeptical, over 70 posts all on one subject, so I am not buying you have no interest in this at all.




The only intrest I have is I need to purchase another mower.

My HD & lowes don't carry any ZTR's. I hadn't even considered it. I had been visiting my local dealers, getting prices and then researching the net to compare the mowers and the prices. The beast mower showed up on one of the pop up ads.

So it looks like you took the time to scan my posts but did you actually read any of them ? Read the first one .. I made the same chinese crack . I didn't know someone from GXI was actually "Suporting" the thread until Gordon responded to it.

I'm waiting until after memorial day . But I've decided to get the 54" . Yup trying to get even more money off. If the $350 bath coupon still worked I would have gotten it already..

The only reason I am here is to buy a mower. whats your excuse ?

Mark Oomkes
05-12-2011, 08:18 AM
"Do you know the history of the Yugo? If not I suggest some research on your part as this type of thing has been tried in the past. Not very successfully."

Enter Hyundai. They got started selling cheap, on volume and now are ranked right up there with Toyota and Honda.

Apparently you didn't do the research on Yugo that I suggested. :rolleyes:

The only reason I am here is to buy a mower. whats your excuse ?

I'm a troll. :cool2:

TWerner
05-13-2011, 11:53 AM
Hey Sam,

I have read your posts. Every one of them on 3 different threads. You say you came here for information on mowers. After reading peoples' experiences and posting 70 times, it appears you plan to buy a Beast. Why?

Why not buy the Ariens that Eric bought after he returned his Beast? It seems to be a fairly trouble free machine with comparable performance. Why not buy a used commercial mower like TwinTurbo did after he returned the Beast. He indicated the used commercial mower outperformed the Beast by a lot, even after the Beast's engine fix, and he clearly liked GXi. I don't think he said a single bad thing about them. But he did return the beast and is clearly happier with the performance of his "new" mower.

I said a while ago that you seem to see the Beast through rose colored glasses. Of the 4 Beasts we've heard about from somebody other than the company president, none have been problem free.

One was a no start/no buy despite a discount being offered (XLS?).
2 have been returned (TwinTurbo and Eric).
One is still out there, but the owner fixed his first broken bolt issue himself, and the mower is now having problems again that he hadn't figured out yet. (Graybeard)

Those are new mowers, not mowers that have been used a season or two, and yet, they've all had problems. I'm with Mark, it's pretty suspicious that if you came here to learn about mowers and the Beast, that based on an 0 for 4 performance, you are now gung ho for the company and convinced buying one is a good idea.

Sorry,
Todd

Mark Oomkes
05-13-2011, 01:16 PM
OK, am I missing something? Didn't I post something about a cheap Russian car that wouldn't start the first 4 times?

But my Yugo posts stay? :rolleyes:

TWerner
05-13-2011, 01:29 PM
Hi Mark,
I saw it, and Sam's reply. I actually thought it was funny since the HD couldn't get that Beast mower to start. Sam missed that connection. I'm sure it was a HD issue, not a Beast issue. Subaru engines are decent from what I've read.
I had a post disappear like that and then show back up the next day, not sure what it means. Server issue maybe?
Todd

GordonwJackson
05-13-2011, 01:43 PM
Hey Sam,

I have read your posts. Every one of them on 3 different threads. You say you came here for information on mowers. After reading peoples' experiences and posting 70 times, it appears you plan to buy a Beast. Why?
Sorry,

Todd



Todd,

FYI. Each of the mowers that were actually returned have been sent to a local mower service center for 3rd party review. I plan to report the findings of the 3rd party service centers when the findings are available. I have been in this business long enough to know not all initial diagnosis are accurate. I am aware of all returns and service center findings to date and there are a range of issues from "no problem found" to a reported right hydro problem caused by "yard debris in right control arm linkage, removal of yard debris and squirt of WD40 fixed problem" to a "manufacturing defect internal to a hydro." You get pretty thick skin after a while. :) I was told one of the mower concerns posted on this site (clanking noise coming from engine or hydro) was thought to be the roll bar pin retaining clip boucing up and down when a bump was hit. We will continue to investigate and monitor closely.

samendolaro
05-13-2011, 02:01 PM
The Home depot motor not starting because of a dead battery ? I really wouldn't count that toward the group. Twinturbo decided to keep the Exmark. As I understand her was considering keeping the Beast at one point so it wasn't a failure. So it is more like 1 of 4 in my book if you want to look at real hard issues.


For me, I am in Florida less then a mile from the water, I want a commercial quality deck which will withstand the salt air. The land is Flat and I will end up mulching . The beasts motor also sits up nice and high which I like since I don't need to worry about burning the lawn if i stop now and again.

There really wasn't anything I didn't like about the mower. I get it drop shipped to me and if I don't like it I just drop it off at Home Depot in 30 days.

In the end It comes down to Price vs performance.

I haven't seen any residential mower which competes (on paper) with the size deck, Blade speed or features for the price. I also haven't seen any commercial mower which I thought was so much better that i was willing to pay double to get it.

I look at it like this.. its a mower . Its a Motor, Blade and drive system.
The Subaru motor is top notch and will last I have no doubt . I'll probably end up getting some gator blades until they release a mulching system or it looks good just shooting out . The only unknown on the beast is the drive system.

Because of my ability to return this mower with no questions asked it would be foolish of me to pass it up just because one person had a noise or another didn't want to adjust the tracking and another had a dead battery in a B&M store. Infact i still haven't seen a complete nuts to bolts review including before and after of cut. Pretty foolish to make a decision based upon that.

Trust me, if there is "ANYTHING" wrong from loose bolts to the cut you will hear about it. I will do a very through precheck. and documented test.

TWerner
05-13-2011, 03:28 PM
Gordon,

You've been nothing but professional so far, but that is a very selective clip of my post and makes it sound like I'm sarcastically apogizing to Sam for his buying a Beast. I didn't do that. I apologized because I stated that I, like Mark, think how he interprets information and posts makes him look very Beast Biased for someone who says they came to Lawnsite.com to learn about mowers. The below is an example.

The Home depot motor not starting because of a dead battery ? I really wouldn't count that toward the group. Twinturbo decided to keep the Exmark. As I understand her was considering keeping the Beast at one point so it wasn't a failure. So it is more like 1 of 4 in my book if you want to look at real hard issues.


Sam,

1) It wasn't just a battery. They tried other batteries. If it had been, why would they have offered to sell the mower "as is" with no warranty. Reading comprehension .... 0 for 1 problem free. HD's fault, not GXi or the Beast's

2) Erik returned his due to problems. Got the Ariens. Hopefully it'll be super reliable and safe for his son. 0 for 2 problem free.

3) TwinTurbo decided to return his BEFORE he picked up the Exmark. He WAS considering keeping it at one point, after GXi managed to fix the first major problem which was an air filter issue. That alone would have made the score 0 for 3 problem free, but Twin was impressed with GXi. He complimented their customer service and their mower and wanted to keep it.

Then it developed another issue, per his posts, which may have been a right side hydro issue, or may have been something minor, but we'll never know. He liked GXi, liked the Beast, lost faith in the Beast, and decided to return it since he'd found a true commercial mower for only a little more money. Definately 0 for 3. In this case, the buyer was willing to pay more for a used Exmark rather than keep the Beast, even though he really liked GXi and the Beast. Further, since he hadn't returned the beast before the used Exmark was delivered, he decided to compare them. He felt the Exmark performed better. This is not a great performance comparison if the Beast's issue wasn't minor.
Really all we know is that Twin's Beast had enough problems that he didn't keep it and chose to return it and buy a used Exmark.

It seems like your posts try to spin things in such a way that if someone showed up and only read a single page, you'd have nullified anything that didn't look good for the Beast mower. If they just read your interpretation of peoples posted experiences, they might think that of the 4 posters who have bought or tried to test a beast, only one had any issues. That's why Mark and I are suspicious. Clearly the problems haven't been dangerous and GXi has been great about customer service for users on this thread, but every poster had issues with the Beast. Not something most of us would expect if we bought a $3500 lawn mower.

Anyone can check on what I have said by reading the threads. If my statements weren't accurate, Gordon would point it out and I'd revise my post. And I wish he could. I like Gordon based on his professional conduct, his posts, and his initiative to grow a business. This enormous thread is a marketing disaster in the age of the internet. It's so big that there's no way Google can overlook it if someone searches for Beast mowers.

If Graybeard's mowers "Clanking" turns out to be a loose ROPS pin, the mower still won't have been trouble free (given the broken bolt he had to drill and replace himself), so still 0 for 4 on that score, but it will be 1 out of 3 sold still in the field working after a month or so. Not good, but hopeful.

My conference call is ending, so I have no more time to type, thank goodness!

Todd

samendolaro
05-13-2011, 04:05 PM
Gordon,

You've been nothing but professional so far, but that is a very selective clip of my post and makes it sound like I'm sarcastically apogizing to Sam for his buying a Beast. I didn't do that. I apologized because I stated that I, like Mark, think how he interprets information and posts makes him look very Beast Biased for someone who says they came to Lawnsite.com to learn about mowers. The below is an example.




Lets be clear... I came to Lawnsite to learn about "THIS" mower.. Its the only place I can go that had any information. I can go to a local out of area Lowes or a local dealer and learn about others .

Eric is the only one in my opinion who suffered a major failure (where his right hydro failed) . You can read what you want from a unit what was sitting in HD or a unit that was returned without knowing if there was a problem or a broken bolt. None of those things want to make me spend more money ?

If there were reports of identical component failures i would be very concerned.

Do you honestly think I should just look elsewhere and spend another 2-3k because someone broke a bolt ?

there are plenty of good reviews on the HD site . I wish they were else ware and more in-depth but is all there is.

Does it really bother you that much that I'm willing to buy this mower and give it a try?

Mark Oomkes
05-13-2011, 04:53 PM
Its the only place I can go that had any information. I can go to a local out of area Lowes or a local dealer and learn about others .

You're saying you don't have a Home Cheapo anywhere close to you that you can go learn about it, as you say you can with the Lowes brands?

Why didn't you just set up a demo?

Todd, the reason it is gone is because for some unbeknownst reason, the mods didn't think it fit, but it fit my point exactly.

TWerner
05-13-2011, 05:10 PM
Yes, Erik was the only one with a major failure. So 25% of them have had a major failure here. 33% if you don't want to count the one HD couldn't start.

However, every problem mentioned was a real issue that cost the posters hours of their lives. The way you spin this, it sounds like: Yes, there was one machine with a hydro problem, but other than that, no "real hard issues".

Unfortunately, the Beast hasn't been problem free for anyone who's posted here.

A reader of your posts would conclude that based on the experiences people posted here, that they probably won't have any problems if they buy a Beast mower.

Is that what you think someone would reasonably conclude if they read the three threads on the Beast mower? That it's basically problem free?

Mark,
Did they tell you that?
Just curious.
Todd

Patriot Services
05-13-2011, 05:13 PM
From a neutral view. How many warranty repairs are stacked up at your favorite dealers? Have they invented an LCO proof anything yet? Has a Bugatti Veyron ever broken (yes)?
Posted via Mobile Device

GordonwJackson
05-13-2011, 05:22 PM
Gordon,

You've been nothing but professional so far, but that is a very selective clip of my post and makes it sound like I'm sarcastically apogizing to SamTodd

Twerner,

I am sorry if my choice of words came accross that way. It was unintended.

The challenge GXi has (or any other manufacturer) is the blogospehere wants instantaneous gratification. Someone make's a claim and the expectation is that absolute information is known or available almost immediately.

I am doing my best to keep up with the inquiries and comments, but obviously if someone says they have an issue with their mower it may take days or, if returned, a week or two for the return to happen and have a 3rd party get a look at it (if some says they are returning it on Lawnsite, it may not be back at the store for many more days). This forum expects an immediate answer or the assumption is there is a problem with the mower or some fatal flaw that is being uncovered (silence for 1 day on the blog = admission of disaster it seems! :) That is a pretty high standard to uphold).

The Home Depot store in TN that was discussed left the mowers sitting outside all winter. The store manager there took 100% responsibility for their condition including the dead batteries. Nobody had started the mowers in many months. I was more worried about the carburetors than the batteries. I was told Home Depot sent them out to be repaired.

"Erik" you refer to, is that ErikNelson? I am not aware he purchased a Z-BEAST Mower. Can you help me find that information? I think I missed it somewhere. Our database shows nobody with that name registered a mower.

I believe TwinTurbo's mower revealed no problem found upon return. He found a deal on another mower and took advantage of the Home Depot 30 day return policy. He provided a mixed review but is happy with his final mower purchase. I am glad it worked out for him.

There was one other returned mower from a Lawnsite member. Before we could get ahold of the mower at the Home Depot store sold it to another customer and we have no further report of any problems.

There are a few other reports we are chasing to the ground.

So you see, TWerner, when in a retail channel with an open return policy, a blogospehere with fast moving expectations, and the time it takes to really figure out an issue often takes a few days or a week...you can see how information can be distorted very quickly.

Our interest in being active on this site is to at least do our best to keep information accurate and provide answers / feedback on topics related to BEAST mowers.

If you think seeking the truth and resolving each issue creates a PR challenge...imagine being inactive and letting the negative posts fly unchallenged on this site and others! Usually the Lawnsite moderator eventually just shuts threads down as they get too far out of control.

As many people get a chance to see and try these mowers much of the speculation and rumors will die down and the strengths and the weaknesses of these mowers will be known in a more fair and balanced manner.

What have we dispelled so far in this thread:
- GXi has a very responsive and capable customer service team, service network, and parts availability.
- BEAST mowers are a fresh all-original design and not a warmed over copy of another mower on the market.
- I think several posts agree the cut quality (remember...that is why we buy a mower!) is quite good. Over time, I hope to see a few people post they think it is excellent. I hope that a "blind" cut quality test would prove this. I have yet to see a post suggesting the cut quality was not satisfactory.
- BEAST mowers represent the value leaders in this industry.

In time I hope to add to this list of Lawnsite comments to include durability.

In time...the truth will reveal itself...and the team at GXi is confident about our future. We know the mowers are robust, simple to work on, and work very well. There is not a single maintenance procedure or component replacement on this mower that takes over 1 hour to accomplish or requires more than the most basic tools. Spare parts are plentiful and low cost. It is a different approach to mower design than the industry incumbent's approach.

In the mean time, we appreciate the feedback and we look forward to continuing this thread. If problems are uncovered, we will address them quickly and professionally. If rumors or false information is presented, we will challenge it. If someone says they had a poor experience with their mower, we will definitely get to the bottom of it. :)

On that note, have a good weekend. :drinkup: