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rem-md
04-23-2010, 09:15 PM
What exactly are the differences in the 2009 23hp/52" Grandstand vs the 2010 24hp/52" (other than the obvious 1 HP increase :) ). I've read several threads that talk about changes and updates - such as some sort of frame upgrades, a change to solid rod hydro controls from the original cable system, new deck lift assist springs, different throttle cable mechanics, etc. Even my local dealer was a little unsure of what the changes were - said they were having trouble getting new mowers in from the factory quick enough. Hoping this is the place to get the straight info directly from the manufacturer.

I'm down to the Toro or Exmark machine for my purchase (although I've only seen a 2009 Toro in person). There are subtle differences, but different things I like about both machines.

Thanks...

lilweeds
04-30-2010, 05:07 PM
Slightly larger fuel tank
Different lift system, just like the Exmark now.
Throttle cable is different, but the 09 can be fixed, same thing with most of the frame changes
They are still using cables, and from what I am told the Exmark is having issues with the rods, but the part the goes between the cables and the pumps are built different, and from what I hear should be trouble free.
I think that cover the major changes.

thompson_lawncare
04-30-2010, 05:36 PM
We bought a 2009 52" Grandstand last year and we had a few problems...this year we ended up buying a 36" and they made some great improvements, overall I would say that they took a look at the problems with last years models and fixed all of the problems that they had. I wish I had the money to buy another 52" because last years model was really productive and I wouldn't hesitate to purchase this years.

mandmearthscapes
05-01-2010, 05:31 AM
I am actually trading in my 2009 52" 23hp grandstand today, I had so many problems they are swapping me out, I do have to come up with $250 (shipping or something) but it is the 2010 52" 24hp model. I really hope that the improvements do not have me bringing in this model 8 times in a year.

lilweeds
05-01-2010, 09:32 AM
was that something your dealer did, or Toro direct?

rem-md
05-01-2010, 09:26 PM
Thanks for the reply guys. Just wish my dealer could get a shipment from Toro so I could see one in person.

mandmearthscapes
05-02-2010, 05:18 AM
The service manager pushed for it with TORO when the frame cracked, that was the ninth service I had on it in a year.

The Toro Company
05-05-2010, 01:24 PM
Rem-md -

Summary of 48"/52" GrandStand changes for 2010 ...

Engine: The 24 hp Kawasaki FS engine replaces the 23 hp Kawasaki FH engine.

Deck lift system: The deck lift assistance on the 2010 models is provided by a pair of extension springs (as opposed to the gas springs used on the 2009 models). Benefits include improved longevity and the ability to adjust the amount of lift assistance to accommodate different preferences or different applications. In addition, improvements were also made to the lift handle and associated parts.

Frame: Changes were made to the design of the frame primarily to accommodate the addition of the new 60" GrandStand model, and to ensure greater consistency in the manufacturing process.

Throttle control: The 2010 throttle control cable "pulls" the engine control plate to high idle (as opposed to the 2009 design where the cable "pushed" the control plate to high idle). This change was made to better handle variation in the resistance of the engine control plates.

Steering controls: A number of enhancements have been made to the Toro steering controls for 2010, including more robust spherical rod ends on the steering cables, oil impregnated bushings in pivot hubs, improved alignment and clearance between parts, and tighter tolerances (including the replacement of wire form connecting links with laser cut parts for greater consistency). Because the hydraulic pumps move relative to the control levers (in response to changes in the height of the cutting deck), the hydraulic pumps cannot be controlled with a solid link. We will continue to utilize push-pull cables (rather than a series of moving links) to activate the hydraulic pumps, because they significantly simplify adjustment of the controls and they ensure the machine can achieve maximum ground speed throughout the entire range of cutting heights. As an added benefit, GrandStand models will continue to feature the exclusive variable speed control (patent pending) that can be used to change the drive tire response by adjusting the sensitivity of the control levers.

Fuel tank: Fuel capacity of the 2010 models increases from 6.8 gallons to 7.8 gallons.

Operator pad: The material of the operator pad on the 2010 Toro GrandStand models changed from vinyl to a Cordura(R) fabric, which breathes better and is more durable in this application.

What didn't change for 2010: The 2010 models will continue to deliver the outstanding operator comfort, exceptional hillside performance, and incredible TURBO FORCE cut (particularly in dense and wet conditions) that made the Toro GrandStand the talk of the industry in 2009.

Hopefully you found this summary helpful, but please let us know if you have additional questions.

-The Toro Company

rem-md
05-05-2010, 02:55 PM
Mr. Toro -

Excellent summary! Thanks for taking the time to put it together. All the changes sound very positive for the machine. I know it's not new for 2010, but I think the Variable Speed Control lever was an excellent idea - it's certainly a much more refined (and useful) solution than the adjustable bar used on the Exmark Vantage for speed control.

Now if production and delivery can catch up, I think Toro will have a lot of these units on the street Thumbs Up

JD1515
05-08-2010, 01:54 PM
Anyone know how to change the gas lift stabilizers on the 2009 models? Mine went out and were fairly simple to take off once I got to the nuts. Problem is the new ones are hard as rocks and I dont know how ill get the piston of the dampener to push in while I try to align the holes. Has anyone done this yet? Is their a write-up on this?

The Toro Company
05-10-2010, 03:14 PM
Anyone know how to change the gas lift stabilizers on the 2009 models? Mine went out and were fairly simple to take off once I got to the nuts. Problem is the new ones are hard as rocks and I dont know how ill get the piston of the dampener to push in while I try to align the holes. Has anyone done this yet? Is their a write-up on this?

JD1515 -

Thank you for contacting Toro with your concern of replacing the gas struts for the deck lift assist. I have attached the gas strut removal and installation procedure to ease the process.

-The Toro Company

Blazerfb
01-10-2011, 05:10 PM
Is there a way to install the newer spherical rods to replace the cabled system? I have run the newer rod system and love it, much more precise and reaches full forward and reverse. My 2009 23hp 48in has difficulty in reverse and only reaches around 6-6.5 mph going forward.

If I can't install the new system, is there something else I can do to at least get to 7-7.5 mph forward? Slow reverse isn't the end of the world to me, tough on hills but I can deal with it. Really want to go about 1 mph faster forward on my larger accounts, would save me hours. Thanks in advance for any help, love the machine other than these few issues, cut is amazing, tons of power, takes up less space than my 36" wb.

grassman177
01-10-2011, 05:42 PM
we just got the 2010 versions of that mower. 34hp 48in. i am gonna get or make a weight kit though, i am a bit heavy for the hills i have to use this on. the cables on the newer ones do make it go faster i think, or at least they can be adjusted that way(mine are fast already and have plenty of adjustment left to go either way.)

if you have not had the update for the cables, this may be able to have done.

Blazerfb
01-10-2011, 05:51 PM
if you have not had the update for the cables, this may be able to have done.

Mine has already had the update according to my friend that I bought it from. I really was looking to have it retrofitted with the new rod control system if possible. I am going to talk to my exmark/Toro dealership shop manager, he may be able to just readjust everything to give me full speed. I feel like there is way to much travel in the linkage, a gap between going forward and backward that allows for a jerky ride.

Blazerfb
01-10-2011, 05:54 PM
we just got the 2010 versions of that mower. 34hp 48in. i am gonna get or make a weight kit though

I have contemplated doing the same, I weigh ab 260 (ex athlete) and have popped my share of grandstand wheelies. It does help in hopping curbs tho. I'd like to put at least 20lbs on maybe 25-30 even. Thought about just rigging up something that will hold water but I dont think it'll be stable enough. would be nice to be able to add and remove weight infinitely varible and for free!

grassman177
01-10-2011, 07:05 PM
i would think it way too unstable.

wehave weight bars for our aerators that are 50 lbs, thought i would rig it up to see how it performed and see if i needed less. i dont know, but i bet 25-30 ls is enough.

Blazerfb
01-10-2011, 08:10 PM
Yeah water, unless in many small pockets, wouldn't work. 50 pounds would def keep it down, wouldn't wanna put the semi pneumatics thru that. Lemme know how it works if you do it. Sometimes it is alot easier to use what u have!
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grassman177
01-11-2011, 12:07 AM
actually, i would like to see what the toro weight kit looks like though. no pics on the website, and i could not find any with quicksearches.

toro, can you provide the pics of weight kits for grandstands?

Blazerfb
01-11-2011, 12:19 AM
I've heard it's like 16 lbs
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grassman177
01-11-2011, 12:23 AM
it is, but there is option to stack up to 4 of them on each mower making it adjustable per operator

Blazerfb
01-11-2011, 12:30 AM
Sweet, how much per weight tho?
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robertsturf
01-12-2011, 05:31 PM
we just got the 2010 versions of that mower. 34hp 48in. i am gonna get or make a weight kit though, i am a bit heavy for the hills i have to use this on. the cables on the newer ones do make it go faster i think, or at least they can be adjusted that way(mine are fast already and have plenty of adjustment left to go either way.)

if you have not had the update for the cables, this may be able to have done.

Wow Ralph 34hp on a 48" that'll really haul some grass!!

grassman177
01-12-2011, 10:47 PM
Sweet, how much per weight tho?
Posted via Mobile Device

16 lbs x 4 available bars for a total of 64 lbs, roughly

grassman177
01-12-2011, 10:49 PM
Wow Ralph 34hp on a 48" that'll really haul some grass!!

you know i was wondering who would catch that. it would be able to brush hog with that much hp. it is not going to have any issues with bogging down i can assure that. i just hope these new series engines are going to hold up well

Blazerfb
01-12-2011, 11:09 PM
16 lbs x 4 available bars for a total of 64 lbs, roughly

Nice, that should be a nice range to work with. I think I might just buy two weights, that should be more than enough for anyone under ab 275lbs I'd think
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Blazerfb
01-12-2011, 11:31 PM
Wow Ralph 34hp on a 48" that'll really haul some grass!!

You aren't kidding, my 23 horse 48 is already a beast, i can't even begin to imagine another 11 horses. You are talking absolutely no clogging whatsoever. I'd like to think that would work very well bush hogging as well.

Question tho: with that much added horsepower, does the tension on the deck belt need to be tightened? It seems like to me there would be alot of slip trying to drive those spindle pulleys in high traffic with that much power. I could be way off, just postulating here! Anyone know?
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sjessen
01-13-2011, 07:30 AM
You aren't kidding, my 23 horse 48 is already a beast, i can't even begin to imagine another 11 horses. You are talking absolutely no clogging whatsoever. I'd like to think that would work very well bush hogging as well.

Question tho: with that much added horsepower, does the tension on the deck belt need to be tightened? It seems like to me there would be alot of slip trying to drive those spindle pulleys in high traffic with that much power. I could be way off, just postulating here! Anyone know?
Posted via Mobile Device

The 34 hp is a typo. Should have read 24 hp.

grassman177
01-13-2011, 12:33 PM
yup, sorry. funny though you went through all that thought process .

i think the 24hp should be a hoss though, i am used to 17hp on a 48in deck!! this thing should be like a hot knife thru butter in thick grass.

The Toro Company
01-13-2011, 02:23 PM
Hello Grassman177,

Please find a picture and pdf about the weight kits.

The Toro Company

The Toro Company
01-13-2011, 03:58 PM
Hi Blazerfb

Can you provide the model and serial number and we may be able to provide more information.

Thank you,
The Toro Company

Blazerfb
01-13-2011, 05:04 PM
74568 *290000203
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grassman177
01-13-2011, 05:45 PM
Hello Grassman177,

Please find a picture and pdf about the weight kits.

The Toro Company

Thanks a whole lot, i have looked everywhere.

on average, do you know preferences on wieghts used per wieght of operator? thought i would ask, cause then it would be easier to order the number required, or does all 4 come with it, or how much extra is each weight?

thanks for your time and information:drinkup:

The Toro Company
01-14-2011, 08:16 AM
Hi Grassman177,

Our service department needs a model number to answer your question.

Thank you,

The Toro Company

grassman177
01-14-2011, 09:41 AM
um, i am not at the shop, but its the 48in grandstand with the 24hp kawi

The Toro Company
01-18-2011, 02:17 PM
Hi Grassman177,

All the Toro mowers are designed as finish cut mowers. They are not designed as bush hogging mowers. The units are set up properly when delivered to mow homeowner grass as designed.

The Toro Company

grassman177
01-18-2011, 03:05 PM
Hi Grassman177,

All the Toro mowers are designed as finish cut mowers. They are not designed as bush hogging mowers. The units are set up properly when delivered to mow homeowner grass as designed.

The Toro Company

um, ok. that has nothing to do with what i was asking:laugh:

please reread the post

The Toro Company
01-19-2011, 11:26 AM
Sorry about that. Here's the answer to your question: No, The units are set up properly when delivered to mow homeowner grass as designed.

Thank you,
The Toro Company

aclm
01-29-2011, 11:07 PM
Or anyone else that may be able to help in my purchase......

I was in my local Toro dealership on Friday to purchase a "new" grandstand. Its a 23 hp with a 48" deck. The list price is $7899.

I asked them specifically if this was last years model, or this years, as I saw it on the floor (same one) last August. They said they weren't like cars, and they don't have model years.

Seems from what I have been reading, the 23/48 is actually a 2009 model?? And we are in 2011. Is that correct? I see now that the option for that mower is a 24/48 with several upgrades, posted earlier in this discussion by the Toro Company.

Also, it seems this price is a little high...any comments?

I am really excited to purchase a Grandstand, but feel I have been mislead, or is it possible this is a 2010 model?

Any feed back I can take back to the dealer before I purchase one next week would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Blazerfb
01-30-2011, 11:28 AM
I am really excited to purchase a Grandstand, but feel I have been mislead, or is it possible this is a 2010 model?

The 23 hp motor, from what I understand, is not available on the newest models. Not to discredit your dealer but we have a 23/48 model and it is very much inferior to the new 24 hp models from my perspective. Many people in my area are trying to dump their 23hp models and get the new ones bc of the upgrades. (me included). Still a good mower but I would NEVER pay that much for an inferior model even if it is new.

I would strongly advise getting one of the new models, you can easily differentiate them by the hp motor. The new models, from what I have read, must have the different motors due to a class action lawsuit. What this is all ab I don't know but something ab actual hp ratings versus what the sticker on the motor says.

Hope this helps, buy a new one dude, our parks service just got one and it is so much nicer than mine. Look at the Exmark Vantage as well, seem to be more welded parts and less bolts, better engineering. just better built to me. Obviously almost the same mower with a few different components but I like vantage slightly better.
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robertsturf
01-30-2011, 12:14 PM
Go with the 2011 and you won't be sorry! We have both versions, even though they are the 52" models and the new ones have a lot more improvements were they need it. The 2009 models still cut excellent if you could get the right price...

aclm
01-30-2011, 04:25 PM
Thank you to both of you that have responded.

The problem is this....THEY DON'T HAVE A NEWER MODEL AND THEY TELL ME THIS IS THE LATEST MODEL. I am being told this is the most current model available by this dealer.

So do I have grounds to call them out on it, if there really is a later model available, do I walk away from the sale, tell them to order a newer version, knock money off the older version???

All input is greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

Blazerfb
01-30-2011, 09:29 PM
I'd look somewhere nearby for a new model. Your dealer will still be able to service it. Or ask them to order a new one for you. I would not buy the old model. The steering controls are very much inferior to the later model. Walk away from it. It's January, they will be dying for a sale and will either be willing to order a new one or discount you that one. Again though, I can't say this enough, I would not settle for the older models.
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grassman177
01-30-2011, 10:34 PM
sounds like to me your dealer is a ****** bag. forget that guy completley. he is lying straight out to get a sale. also, that is really way over priced even for a current model. we paid so much less it was not even funny for the newest models