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View Full Version : Lawnboy 22271/Toro 22156 update


greenerman
04-29-2010, 09:15 PM
Well I finally found a limit to how much I can mulch with my new Lawnboy. Lawns that I have fertilized can be a challenge as just too much spooge is left behind for my liking. I would have to go around and pick up bits or blow them somewhere. I decided to try and bag those particular lawns before somebody bitches. I put on the bagging blade and it bags great! Fills the bag right up tight like an HRC 216. I also found out that it actually mulches better with the bagging blade cause the mulching blade would pack up the deck with too much grass and not let it fall, thus eventually clogging. ( while mulching thicker, longer lawns ) I had one side drive gears fail and replaced them, easy and cheap. The mower always kinda buzzed when I would be moving it around to load etc. since new. I didn't think anything of it but I guess there was a problem with the gears. The dealer had to order the parts in as he said they have never had to replace any. I adjusted the valves once. So far no other problems or complaints. Oh, the drive could be stronger up hills in thick grass. On the other hand it's nice that it doesn't spin patches in lawns when starting out. Would I buy another? You bet. I used my HRC one day to see the difference. I was tired after two lawns, that thing is a tank! Going back to the Lawnboy feels like using a homeowner push mower, it's just so light and maneuverable. For my lawns it has been a good ( lucky ) choice of mower.

lawnboy dan
04-30-2010, 09:19 AM
still it only has one ground speed -too fast!

greenerman
04-30-2010, 12:32 PM
still it only has one ground speed -too fast!

The one speed is no problem at all, as you just feather the bail contol. I have wondered why some mowers like the Toro HD even have three speeds as it's just not necessary. You go as fast as you want with the single speed. I find that full speed is not "too" fast. It's a good qick pace for larger yards. The single speed is simple, saves weight and for me anyway works great. As I mentioned a while back that I was searching for a lighter 21". There aren't too many choices. I was skeptical about this mowers performance, but it is so far turning out to be what I had hoped for. Again for "my" needs.

lawnboy dan
04-30-2010, 09:32 PM
well that single speed isnt much good here in thick st aug grass. you need all the traction and pulling power you can get. slipping the belt will only result in the mower stopping in the thick grass.

jacksnipe
05-07-2010, 06:32 PM
I too find the mower to fast to walk behind. I'm used to the old 3 speed lawnboy we still use & have modified the new toro 22156 with a larger cast iron pully 3.5" diameter along with a 1" longer belt. I am happy to report that it is a lot better for my use. Note" I had to remove the original pully form steel cover & fab a new unit off to the side to operate the bail, this was not to difficult using the holes in the transmission & the original cover as a guide. The new pully is drilled & pinned the same as the original 2" diameter unit

BrunoT
05-07-2010, 06:44 PM
Just don't squeeze the handle up all the way! I leave my toro HD in 3rd gear and can go any speed I want using two fingers. The previous post was correct, they don't even need 3 gears and I have never changed mine out of 3rd.

As for belt-slip transmissions, almost all are some form of that except for Honda, right?
I mowed St. Aug with an old Toro that used that method and it did just fine. At some point a too-direct wheel engagement just spins the wheels and as another post said damages the turf. You figure that at some point if the mower bogs the drive system down you're going up something really steep or mowing grass that is insanely overgrown ( I know how St. Aug grows). When I hit steep stuff my wheels lose traction before anything approaching bogging the wheels occurs. (grass being softer than steel and hard plastic)

The main advantage of this new Toro is the light weight combined with some commercial features. 35-40 fewer lbs matters when you are jockeying it around, when you are starting up at a row going uphill and trying not to tear grass, and if you ever need to carry it up/down stairs on lift it onto a trailer.

I can see now why I hear reports of the Toro HD commercial units having drive system problems. They're so heavy I can "feel" the strain on the transmission.

And what is with the super thick and heavy decks? What are people doing to these things that this is necessary? I've never even had a crack in a cast aluminum deck.

I also consider the lack of bbc a plus for anyone who isn't bagging. Saves weight, complexity, cost, and space under the deck for mulching.

lawnboy dan
05-07-2010, 09:38 PM
the only thing we agree on is bbc isnt necc. jacksnipe-glad to see someone who agrees that the 1 speed trans is too fast! i often thought if there was a way to change the pully size to slow it down, slipping the belt is not the answer

bare spot
05-08-2010, 01:02 AM
Well I finally found a limit to how much I can mulch with my new Lawnboy. Lawns that I have fertilized can be a challenge as just too much spooge is left behind for my liking. I would have to go around and pick up bits or blow them somewhere. I decided to try and bag those particular lawns before somebody bitches. I put on the bagging blade and it bags great! Fills the bag right up tight like an HRC 216. I also found out that it actually mulches better with the bagging blade cause the mulching blade would pack up the deck with too much grass and not let it fall, thus eventually clogging. ( while mulching thicker, longer lawns ) I had one side drive gears fail and replaced them, easy and cheap. The mower always kinda buzzed when I would be moving it around to load etc. since new. I didn't think anything of it but I guess there was a problem with the gears. The dealer had to order the parts in as he said they have never had to replace any. I adjusted the valves once. So far no other problems or complaints. Oh, the drive could be stronger up hills in thick grass. On the other hand it's nice that it doesn't spin patches in lawns when starting out. Would I buy another? You bet. I used my HRC one day to see the difference. I was tired after two lawns, that thing is a tank! Going back to the Lawnboy feels like using a homeowner push mower, it's just so light and maneuverable. For my lawns it has been a good ( lucky ) choice of mower.

have one of these, it's nice to cut with. if had to buy another, i would.

jacksnipe
05-08-2010, 10:56 AM
When I decided to change the ground speed on the new Toro unit it was a little trial & error to find the sweet spot for my use. I removed the plastic covers as needed & examined how the original set-up was engineered & made the necessary improvements by gradually increasing pulley diameter to approx. 3.5" Note: on the first go around I went too large to almost 4" & lost control of the bail handle because the replacement belt was way to tight amoung other critical issues. Working in a machine shop helps with modifying the new pulley by boring & sleeving the new pulley bore to .472" diameter. Cast Iron Browning Part # AK34 Grainger Part # 3X773
I purchased a New 5mm Roll Pin from Fastenal & drilled & reamed the new pully to install it to the transmission shaft, Fastenal sku # 40592 M5 x 40MM heavy duty spring pin. The bracket that bolts to the transmission for the bail operation is another matter which could be fabricated to suit.. The new Belt is 3L340 heavy duty available at McMaster Carr in Chicago Il.

Manorscape
05-06-2011, 08:27 PM
The 3 speed on the Toro HD is very useful. Yes with a single speed you can feather the belt to vary your speed, but youre not getting the torque multiplication a lower gear gives you.

I use 3rd geard most with my Toro HD, but sometimes second gear is very useful. On hills for example, the lower gear will let you feather still, pull the loaded mower/bag around without spinning the wheels, and give your feathering hand a break too. I rarely use first, but I have on occasion.

I miss 3 speed gearboxes on light mowers.

yamaha101
06-01-2011, 10:07 AM
Is anyone having this problem with the Toro 22156? My new one, from day one, seems to bog-down way too easily in light wet conditions, or dry high grass, when trying to cut it about half. All you hear is this, what sounds like metal on metal, ďkunk, kunk, kunkĒ. It doesnít seem strong enough to mulch properly. I tried the original blade and Toroís version of the GatorBlade. I also raised the rpm slightly, with no noticeable difference. I havenít tried bagging yet, so I donít know if thereís a difference either. My father has the Lawn-Boy Walk Power Mower, 3-N-1, Self Propelled, Sens-A-Speed RWD, Honda GCV160. Essentially, itís the same mower except for the steel deck and handle. Iím going to try his out.

Any thoughts?

Roger
06-01-2011, 11:28 PM
I've seen homeowners in my area struggle with the belt-slip speed control. It always seems to be problem when navigating sloping surfaces. The steeper the slope, the more challenging the handling of the mower. The belt seems to grab, then release -- there is no "sweet spot" to maintain a speed while on the slope.

Also, I've seen a commercial contractor use the Exmark commercial hand mower, in and around trees. The operators was unable to control the speed while working under low hanging branches. His hands were not in a good position to use "two fingers" (quoting a previous post). Just hanging on the the mower and keep it moving forward was hard for the operator. In the end, he found the best way was to approach the branches at full speed, let go of the handle, hoping the mower had enough speed to pass under the branches on its own. He would move around to the other side of the branches, and then restart the mower and continue with the pass. When I witnessed the difficulties he had with handling the mower while not able to be neatly following behind, was the "not for me" moment. \

I encounter situations often where I cannot work directly behind the machine, and having to feather the bail would simply not work. Yes, I have tree branch problems, but I also have slopes that I mow across. I often handle the mower while walking beside the mower, one hand on the handle behind the mower, and the other hand on the handle part way down. This gives me leverage to keep the mower in a straight path across the slope. I can't imagine trying to feather the bail in this situation.

One-speed transmissions with belt slip speed control may work well for flat terrain, and orderly areas. But, that is not how my lawns are laid out.

yamaha101
06-01-2011, 11:40 PM
Not sure if that reply was for me. I have no issues with the speed. Has everything to do with too much build-up of mulch. I just tried my fathers LB with the same deck design, but steel, with a Honda 160 instead of the 190 that I have. Made two paths with mine and two paths with his. There was no build-up with his LB, but excess mulch with my Toro 22156 as well as that annoying metal on metal noise. Both with the same mulching blades. You'd think the 190 would out-perform the 160. Now I'm really getting irritated.

johndeeretech09
06-02-2011, 01:20 AM
ya that guy who slips that 3 speed mower is crazy. those transmission arent ment to do that. there is a clutch inside those and that just going to ruin them. and you do want a heavier mower and bbc. why would you want to use a cheap piece of **** that you will have to replace every year?

Merkava_4
06-02-2011, 01:45 AM
I don't like that feathering idea. I either want to be fully engaged in a gear, or fully out of a gear; not somewhere in between with the belt slipping.

lawnboy dan
06-02-2011, 08:31 AM
well said roger as usual. any one who wants good advice on 21 mowers should listen to roger. he knows his stuff

tarheelman
06-05-2011, 10:53 PM
Not sure if that reply was for me. I have no issues with the speed. Has everything to do with too much build-up of mulch. I just tried my fathers LB with the same deck design, but steel, with a Honda 160 instead of the 190 that I have. Made two paths with mine and two paths with his. There was no build-up with his LB, but excess mulch with my Toro 22156 as well as that annoying metal on metal noise. Both with the same mulching blades. You'd think the 190 would out-perform the 160. Now I'm really getting irritated.

It sounds like there might be something wrong with your 22156. Have you talked to the dealer about this issue?

Prime
05-09-2012, 06:23 PM
I ordered in a 22156 last year. I was lead to believe by the Toro website that these were 3 in 1 mowers. Up north here on cool season grasses mulching is almost impossible with the 22156 unless your taking off less than an inch. Ive tried with the bagging blade and a gator blade. Gator is better but still an under deck buildup. To me there is no mulch capability with this mower. Bagging is good if your cutting off 2 inch or less and the grass is dry. Wet grass the chute clogs constantly. Side discharge the 22156 is great, takes a lot of grass to clog it and lays the clippings out nicely. Unless theres a blade that will make the difference...these are the poorest mulcher Ive used. I mulch most of my lawns, this mower turned out to be a bust.

canuck88
06-05-2012, 12:34 PM
I ordered in a 22156 last year. I was lead to believe by the Toro website that these were 3 in 1 mowers. Up north here on cool season grasses mulching is almost impossible with the 22156 unless your taking off less than an inch. Ive tried with the bagging blade and a gator blade. Gator is better but still an under deck buildup. To me there is no mulch capability with this mower. Bagging is good if your cutting off 2 inch or less and the grass is dry. Wet grass the chute clogs constantly. Side discharge the 22156 is great, takes a lot of grass to clog it and lays the clippings out nicely. Unless theres a blade that will make the difference...these are the poorest mulcher Ive used. I mulch most of my lawns, this mower turned out to be a bust.

Interesting that you've had that experience - I have a Lawn Boy 10686 which has the same deck as your 22156 (except steel), use a Gator blade, and have the 195cc Tecumseh engine (not as nice as yours), and I just bagged a couple of days ago in the rain (don't ask) and it worked fine. Sure, I had to empty the bag when it got to about 1/2 full each time, but I had no bogging or clogging issues. The only time I've experienced bogging is if I try to mulch 2 inches or more of damp/wet grass.... with dry grass I have no problem mulching 2+ inches....

bare spot
06-06-2012, 01:35 AM
When I decided to change the ground speed on the new Toro unit it was a little trial & error to find the sweet spot for my use. I removed the plastic covers as needed & examined how the original set-up was engineered & made the necessary improvements by gradually increasing pulley diameter to approx. 3.5" Note: on the first go around I went too large to almost 4" & lost control of the bail handle because the replacement belt was way to tight amoung other critical issues. Working in a machine shop helps with modifying the new pulley by boring & sleeving the new pulley bore to .472" diameter. Cast Iron Browning Part # AK34 Grainger Part # 3X773
I purchased a New 5mm Roll Pin from Fastenal & drilled & reamed the new pully to install it to the transmission shaft, Fastenal sku # 40592 M5 x 40MM heavy duty spring pin. The bracket that bolts to the transmission for the bail operation is another matter which could be fabricated to suit.. The new Belt is 3L340 heavy duty available at McMaster Carr in Chicago Il.
how this ever work out? did it hold up?

greenerman
06-06-2012, 07:46 PM
I know the sound you mean but It doesn't occur for me unless I am attacking too much. At times it will make the noise a bit ( it is the grass rattling around under the deck that can't get out quick enough) but it still keeps mulching. I have my RPM up to the max. It won't bag if it's even damp, but it will mulch. Bags great when dry. Maybe we have different grass here?

jacksnipe
06-07-2012, 12:12 AM
how this ever work out? did it hold up?

I finally settled on a pulley diameter of 2 1/2" for my use. I still miss the 3 speed lawn boy that is still in use after 20 years. Our use requires lot of steep slope mowing, so the drive belt on the 22156 needs to be adjusted a bit snug to climb up hills. This prevents the mower from easy free backing on other areas. I wonder if the HD model with the 3 speed tranny could be mounted on the 22156
The changing of the pulley & belt has held up quite well, although the machine does not mulch near as well as the lawn boy with the mulching fan

bare spot
06-07-2012, 12:34 AM
I know the sound you mean but It doesn't occur for me unless I am attacking too much. At times it will make the noise a bit ( it is the grass rattling around under the deck that can't get out quick enough) but it still keeps mulching. I have my RPM up to the max. It won't bag if it's even damp, but it will mulch. Bags great when dry. Maybe we have different grass here?

remember that sound. ran the mower into a monster patch a crabgrass, with the deck i think set at 2 inches, no bag. thought i broke the mower.

bare spot
06-07-2012, 12:58 AM
I finally settled on a pulley diameter of 2 1/2" for my use. I still miss the 3 speed lawn boy that is still in use after 20 years. Our use requires lot of steep slope mowing, so the drive belt on the 22156 needs to be adjusted a bit snug to climb up hills. This prevents the mower from easy free backing on other areas. I wonder if the HD model with the 3 speed tranny could be mounted on the 22156
The changing of the pulley & belt has held up quite well, although the machine does not mulch near as well as the lawn boy with the mulching fan

was wondering that to, sure there is good poss.. was gonna look into it some but got injuried. off season maybe. with mod, good to hear it's holding up. i do like these mowers, think great for bagging (versiible). mine still working good and running strong from 2007, seeing action pretty much daily btw, never used the fan thing, have an old lawnboy here and gonna have to check that out, it here somewhere.

jacksnipe
06-07-2012, 06:20 PM
The vintage Lawn boy we use with the mulching fan is model # 10515 & the mulching fan part # is 99-6351-03 they are available online & also listed in Ebay.
They work pretty good & I am thinking of buying one & mounting it on the Toro 22156, it may chop up the grass clipping much more..
I'm going to do some research on the 3 speed tranny for the new HD models to see if it's possible to mount it on a 22156. That would be great if it's possible

lawnboy dan
06-07-2012, 09:14 PM
dont bother it isnt possiable

bare spot
06-07-2012, 11:20 PM
The vintage Lawn boy we use with the mulching fan is model # 10515 & the mulching fan part # is 99-6351-03 they are available online & also listed in Ebay.
They work pretty good & I am thinking of buying one & mounting it on the Toro 22156, it may chop up the grass clipping much more..
I'm going to do some research on the 3 speed tranny for the new HD models to see if it's possible to mount it on a 22156. That would be great if it's possible
yes it would. i'm interested.